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Explore game-changing educational and homeschool ideas. Designed for intentional parents like you.
So part of solving that problem is engaging with boys differently in the real world and we are we have to believe that they're not just a defective girl we have to believe that they're not some kind of social disease that needs to be eradicated we have to help them to to understand their strengths and the and what it is that they're created to do and what it is that they're capable of doing and when we're reminding them of those things the world becomes a little more exciting and and they don't feel so compelled to to go disappear into that virtual world that checks all those boxes for them welcome to the Christy Faith show where we share gamechanging ideas with intentional parents like you I'm your host christe Faith experienced educational adviser and homeschool Enthusiast together we'll explore ways to enrich and transform both your life and the lives of your children welcome everybody to this episode of the Christy Faith show I am thrilled about our guest Mark Hancock you may know him he is the founder and CEO of Trail Life USA and I had him on today because he just did a project with Brave books where he wrote a book that is called too much tubular and he is going to talk to us today all about homeschooling our boys raising our boys what is best for them how they are wired thank you so much for being on here today Mark I want to ask you a little bit about your background and how did you come to writing this book for Brave books yeah well that's a great question but let me start with a correction if that's okay I'm not I'm not the founder of TR Life USA I was I was there I was there at the beginning and there were 300 of us there at the beginning looking at this idea of of of starting this organization so I was there and I was the first CEO but we don't point to anyone as a Founder but I appreciate that so my story is really interested in Brave books because you know of course Trail life being an outdoor organization uh we're encouraged to get boys away from the digital and see what the outdoors does to them and they wanted to do a book about the influences of social media on kids and so it it's a perfect matchup for us to to write this book together and so we teamed up with them around this wonderful message that takes place on freedom Island and just gives parents a great opportunity to talk with their kids about uh social media and digital devices and and and how we need to be responsible and uh with with how we manage those things nice and without sharing too much or giving it away what happens on freedom Island yeah well I a little spoil alert but the characters in fenzi Park which is a park on freedom Island are are they're all into this tubular and which is the social media on freedom Island and anytime a picture pops out of these tubes that come out of the ground they're just all interested and they drop everything to do that and and so like all the characters in this fenzy park end up being kind of like zombies all they want is more more more more and uh so the moral of the story and the turning point is when they discover this Trail I have family camping outside the the city and they've discovered this concept of moderation and so they take this idea of moderation back to the city and spoiler alert they help the characters of fenzi Park discover that hey maybe there's nothing wrong with these digital tools but you got to stay in touch with your family you got to stay connected with the outdoors these things that that are that are important so it gives a great foundation for parents to have uh conversations with their kids about the the challenges with in this digital age that's great and so the book really encourages that balance because we can't get rid of screens Al together but I know firsthand how my own kids with some of these YouTube channels they get sucked in and then it does the countdown to the very next one and all of a sudden you know and then I get busy cooking dinner and I've looked up and my kids have just watched an hour and a half of YouTube really cons I mean it's designed that way too most of the social media platforms are that way they are but but the the book gives this great because it's kind of in a comical way this of course there cartoon characters in in here beautiful beautiful artwork in the book really draws you in but the the characters a lot of them are like zombie like walking around the city you see they the twirly things in their eyes and everything and so so for your kids maybe you're at a restaurant and you're looking at another table and you see a family and the whole family's on their devices you know you can kind of just nudge your your son or your daughter and say like you know they're they're like the zombies in fenzy park and and then the kids begin to see it in their own behavior and so it's it's a light-hearted way rather than lecturing and those sorts of things a light-hearted way to have these kind of conversations with your children around the the digital devices that they all have now yes and I'm a big believer just in my own homeschooling philosophy of teaching our kids ethical moral lessons through story it just really solidifies they remember it more when they have an emotional connection and I also think it normalizes you know a lot of things a lot for a lot of us homeschooling families we do life a little bit differently than other people and I think that with books like this coming out and normalizing like no there are a lot of families that set limits on screen time and I know the neighbors watch unlimited blank but there are other families like us that do limit it I think that's so valuable and I'm excited that you did this project I want to ask you in a world dominated by screens why is Hands-On play so essential for children well you know for boys in particular this this whole dealing with concrete and Abstract principles it's so so important so important to them so valuable for them to have that tactile interaction with their with their environment boys are are are born they're actually created designed uh to be active and to be moving and so we put them in this in this situation we put a controller in their hand or put a phone in their hand or a tablet and uh they're kind of shutting down in so many ways rather than interacting in the environment you know Psy psychologist in at Harvard University medical professionals have told us that boys actually have to be moving in order for their brain to be activated enjoying the show and don't want to miss out on future episodes hit that like And subscribe button and show us some love with your reviews those five star reviews really do help us reach more people now we know that if we look at you know I we homeschooled our boys but and they were moving all the time as they were learning and or even at the dinner table you know this your son's his leg starts going whatever he's got got to be moving and what they're trying to tell us is that if you want my brain you got to take this activity uh and that's the way that I keep my brain turned on so interaction with the environment tactial environment is so critical to the learning particularly of boys but boys and girls both and so in this digital world with something still in their hands they're shutting part of their brain down and they're not absorbing and they're not processing as quickly or as well as they are when they're in motion I love that and in the book does it give a guide for parents there's a great section at the end that talks about practical ways to engage and to operate with some of these uh some of these ideas and and it it tells you in the context of Trail life about how how we use the outdoors in order to keep boys engaged and keep people connected and to make those kind of interactions so yeah there's some great practical stuff at the end of the book showing parents how to to integrate some of these principles and even some fun stuff where the parents get to act out some of the characters in the in in the par as they walk around zombie like in their living rooms or whatever interacting with their with their kids so there's some some great activities back there to to help engage uh the kids with a message I I absolutely love that and I want to ask you a little bit about Trail life one I'd love to know the difference between Trail life and some of those other organizations that are outdoorsy for kids and for boys and also how have you guys found in your experience with running trail life how have you seen Trail life influence the character development of the the boys in your program oh those are some great questions chrisy first of all you know traf USA is everything that you would expect from an outdoor Organization for boys who have uniforms and handbooks and camping and Tents and patrols and outdoor adventure and a robust Awards system but what's unique about us in terms of other programs is is we are Christ centered we're unapologetically Christian we point to absolutes which are very difficult to find in our our world today I don't know how you raise kids without saying there's such a thing as good and bad and right and wrong and so so we have that that found the foundational truths that have run throughout the program and then we're also boy focused and that's that's kind of an interesting thing to be saying today you know we're all familiar with the Boy Scouts of America has been around for over hundred years and gave us presidents and senators and Generals and astronauts and Civic leaders but you know a few years back they decided that that uh they were going to change their focus not boys to all children now I think it's wonderful I think kids all kids deserve opportunities but that they took their eye off the ball that their focus was boys was really sad and so TR life remains boy focused we happen to believe that boys and girls are different and if any of your listeners have a boy and a girl in their household they can probably speak to that boys and girls are different and we just acknowledge that upfront and we recognize that it's not a value statement one isn't better than the other but they're different boys learn differently than girls so twice as likely to be in special education three times more likely to have ADHD they have fallen behind girls in every single academic category there's now more young men living at home than ever in in since we started counting that in the census in 1960 because we've abandoned this idea that boys and girls are different and we're trying to raise them in a in a in a one- siiz fits-all sort of environment so we go back to recognizing that boys need programs that are aimed at their strengths and and so do girls but the the that that that's much better recognized when those organizations are separate now we have a great girls organization called American Heritage Girls they're kind of our sister organization they've been around about 20 years before we came around but and so we send parents with girls go there but bring your sons to Trail life because we recognize that boys and girls are different boys are driven by things like Risk and competition they they don't do well with sit still be quiet pay attention psychologically develop mentally behaviorally so many ways boys are different than girls and we recognize that in trailer so that separates us from some organizations that that want to treat boys and girls as if they were the same I love that so much and I agree with you a thousand percent that they are wired so much differently just yesterday I picked my son up from his homeschool program it's a drop off program with all these electives and all of this and he was we have this thing where he's he like we go go and get boba tea after when I pick him up from his program and then he spills the tea and if you know what spill the tea means it's like vernacular for like you tell me everything that went on that day so we get the tea while he spills the tea but anyway what's so fascinating is I have never talked to him about my views on how the classroom environment really is not conducive to boys learning he made this observation himself he's like Mom I've noticed all the girls are really well behaved they're sitting there they're listening and he goes the boys are bouncing off the walls and I was just smiling because I knew I was interviewing you today we could talk about just how I think that it's kind of the elephant in the room we need to ask ourselves why are all these boys being diagnosed with ADHD is it really them or is there maybe something wrong with the system and you know I am a homeschool Advocate I think every parent should be considering an alternative education ation for their kids and their and often just the classroom environment is so stifling for boys it makes them hate learning in general and so these programs like your program is so fascinating I'd love to hear examples of how outdoor experiences for the boys in your program help them build essential life skills that really help them in their Futures yeah that's I I I love that because there's so many opportunities for boys to develop to challenge themselves in different ways where in the classroom setting or typical settings um they're not being challenged and it's just really sad because they're capable of more but at the same time we have an expectation that they're going to behave like girls sit still be quiet pay attention and they're just not wired to do that and so so the outdoors is this great place for boys to go and kind of push the boundaries a little bit in trof we provide a male Centric environment that the surrounded by other boys and men and you know and today today it's so sad but we we look at boys we say they're largely guided you know one in four boys now doesn't have a father in the household and 76% of public school teachers are female and 80 something percent of Sunday school teachers are females so girls have these wonderful models of women who are leading well from the single mom at home to their teacher in the front of the classroom to the teacher in the Sunday school they have these great models that they can say hey that's what a woman looks like in leadership boys lack those models they don't see the father in the home they don't see the the man in the classroom they don't see the man in the Sunday school so they're already at a disadvantage to where they feel they don't have an image they don't have a picture a model an example of who what it is that they're going to be so so we restore that in trail life with a male Centric environment and we we guide boys we give them that kind of guidance men who are in the program who are background checked and child safety youth protection trained and they have a heart for the mission of raising the next generation of good strong Godly young men and so now boys have an image of what it means to be a man we also look at our our we our boys as being you know largely ungrounded you like I said earlier without the foundational absolutes of a culture that points to something and in for the for our country for the longest time it was the Christian moral values well now 58% of Americans no longer believe that God or the Bible is the source of morality and so they're growing up in an environment where they don't have these kind of absolutes to point to and that's tragic for boys they like to know the rules they like to know where they stand they like to know uh you know where the out of bounds is and we've removed a lot of those restraints And So It causes them to actually do less I remember Dr Dobson years ago did a study at a at a at a learning center and there was a playground out back and they would let the kids out the back door and they would play inside the playground one day they took took down the fence and when they took down the fence the kids all grouped up close to the building it's like they no longer felt safe to explore and then they put the fence back up and they all went out to the fence they pushed on the fence they climbed on the fence everything boys like to have something to press up against and when we take away those foundational sorts of things it leaves them kind of scrambling for what's right and what's wrong and they begin to develop their own I ideas and and sometimes they're they're misguided in the the way they they pursue those things so these are difficult challenges that that boys are facing today before we continue I want to share with you a program that has been a game changer for our home school at our Learning Center we instructed and taught pretty much every math program out there on the market so we know firsthand how important a solid math Foundation is for our kids Futures finding the right homeschool math program that didn't compromise academic Excellence but also one that didn't put me and my kids through the ringer was a challenge till one day I tried CTC math you guys the rest was history first off it's a Mastery based program which means your kid gets a solid grasp of the material it's also loaded with mixed reviews ensuring kids never forget what they've learned and the questions are adaptive which keep students confident and progressing at their own pace but the best part all the teaching and Grading done for you with CTC math there is no compromise on Excellence your child gets a top-notch education and you just made your homeschool life easier visit CTC math for your free trial today yeah it's certainly different raising your kids now than even 20 years ago or when I was growing up I want to ask you for the parents that all my kid wants to do is play video games what would you suggest some baby steps for a family to who realizes yeah I don't want my kid addicted to these video games I there's more to life than this but they kind of feel stuck and they're not quite sure what to do what are some baby steps that you recommend for them well there's some things that we can actually learn from video games and it's it's tragic and I'm certainly not encouraging boys to play more but I'm saying that they have found a world there where score is kept which they don't find in the real world anymore where levels are where they know what level they're at where they can take risk where they can try something that's hard and they can fail and they can try again we've taken a lot of that out of the real world for boys we've taken the risk and the competition away so that drives them to that video game world and then we criticize them for playing so many video games so I'm not I'm not saying they should be playing more but I'm telling you that it's that sort of activity for boys where they know where they stand because score is kept they know what they've earned because we're rewarding them uh based on what they earn not based on showing up we're not doing participation trophies that's not helpful for boys that's maddening for them we're rewarding them based on what it is that they are actually doing that brings out this desire of them and then we've created a world that's that's that's more engaging than the Video Game World so part of solving that problem is engaging with boys differently in the real world and we are currently we've got to give them risk in competition we have to allow them to move we have to believe that they're not just a defective girl we have to believe that they're not some kind of social disease that needs to be eradicated we have to help them to to understand their strengths and and what it is that they're created to do and what it is that they're capable of doing and when we're reminding them of those things the world becomes a little more exciting and and they don't feel so compelled to to go disappear into that virtual world that checks all those boxes for them that is so fascinating I've never heard it explained in that way on that attractiveness and I'm thinking of my own son who we of course we allow video games and he just loves that competition he loves the fantasy football stuff and wow that's that's really enlightening for me to hear that and I think I have fallen into that myself like oh my goodness video games are bad no they're actually not we're looking for moderation and and there are certain aspects of that that are in alignment with how he's wired that is such a fascinating thing and I I wanted to talk a little bit more get a little controversial here I want to talk about toxic masculinity this whole you touched on it a smidge but I want to dive deeper because here's the thing here's what struck me in what you said and that is we don't want to teach our boys that they are defective girls and I do feel like I want you to flesh that out a little bit because that that can strike someone that can stop them in their tracks what do you mean by that yeah well it's it's subtle but it's there and when you begin to see it it's really quite frightening the way that in in many ways we're kind of shaming boys for who it is that they are so if if we criticize them for celebrating a victory because you're going to hurt somebody's feelings we're taking away from that them that desire to achieve or to win or to do something great and that's exactly what put those men in those boats to storm the beach of Normandy or or on top of that rocket ship to go the moon or in that ship that was going to sail across uncharted waters is this sense that you know there's some danger involved here but and there's a challenge to it and there's something to be celebrated and something to be I might fail at it but when we take those things out of their world when we take the the opportunity for doing something hard and failing and then trying again which the Video Game World offers clearly then we then we take away their desire and that's why we have this Failure to Launch and I referenced it earlier all these young men living at home because we haven't let them uh fully experience the the the capability the drive the winning the risk the competition all those things that bring men to life you know boys as they are wired and when we if we don't take this out of them they are the ones they're not the ones who show up in school with a gun to harm people they're the ones who stand in front of the bullets and say I'm GNA be the hero here and so there's there's there's different ways to to to raise Boys in order to to to help them engage with that hero hero aspect of what's an a boy and it has to do with understanding who it is he is letting him Embrace challenge giving him opportunities for risk and competition in a safe environment but U rewarding him for what he earned and not just for showing up these certain things in subtle ways we have told boys that they're not capable and when we tell them things like we're not going to keep score because we don't want anyone get their feelings hurt we're telling them you're not strong enough to have your feelings hurt and so I'm going to protect you and we're we tell them in shaming ways that they're not brave and instead of tell them you know what this could be really hard and you could fall flat on your face but give it your all and let's see what happens and then to be there for them with them when they do fail to help talk them through them sit with them through that and take them to getting up and trying it again video games let them do that we have a tendency to Shield them from anything that's going to harm them or hurt their feelings when they're really they're really uh driven to to do things and engage with things that are bigger than they are and harder than than what than what they can actually feel like they can handle they're drawn to that sort of thing and and we have to get out of their way sometimes you are you froze for a second I was wondering if you were just about to finish your sentence and then you froze one thing that I want to touch on because probably over 80% of the listeners today are homeschooling women who are homeschooling their boys and it has been brought to my attention on several occasions just how I am a woman and I am homeschooling I have one boy I have three girls my boy is my oldest and just being cognizant of how I am wired and really rethinking how I am teaching him to let him really shine and flourish you know we have boys and they're bouncing off of the walls right right now we have snow outside and it's really cold so what are my kids doing they are building forts my house is a disaster he's running all over the place bouncing balls off the walls and rather than like ah kids stop right more like wow look how creative they're being you know reframing for us what are some I I know that you talked to a lot of homeschooled parents you mentioned that you homeschooled your kids yourself I would love to hear from you what tips you have for us homeschooling moms to really Embrace and nurture this masculinity that they're wired so that they flourish later in life and become these Brave leaders that we want them to be yeah well I I wish there a lot lot more people talking about this you years ago my sons are now 24 and 22 back when we we started homeschooling because because we missed it in in some areas I remember when we first started homeschooling we went to the uh our school district had a had an auction and so we bought two two student desks and we brought them home and sanded them and painted them and stained them and make them look really nice and because you know we're doing school at home so we need a school desk yeah and what we found out is that those boys didn't need a desk at all so they did their homework you know hanging upside down over the couch with a dog on their head or whatever and so so we have to be you have to understand that that that boys are wired differently than girls their eyes are different their ears are different their brains are different biologically psychologically developmentally their hands are are are not as ready to hold a pencil at the same age as girls so we're trying to get them right neatly when they just don't quite have the dexterity we have to understand these things right now at our website at traf usa.com we have a a book for download called let boys be boys and we talk about some of these differences between boys and girls and so those sorts of hints and they're really helpful my wife was really good at this on the days that she had them she would she'd give them both a fce water a clean one and and you know so the the numbers were bugs on the wall and and so that's the way that they would get engaged with answering questions or she put letters on the floor and they' step step or jump on the letters to spell words you know those sorts of things that sort of physical activity because like I said earlier boys need to be moving for their brain to be involved those those things are are power ful or the Nerf gun shooting the Nerf gun at the at the at the answers on the wall those sorts of things are are are huge in keeping boys engag and keeping them keeping them moving you know we tried to sit him still in a desk I remember taking them into Sunday School classrooms and they and before the class started they'd have that sheet of paper on there and they give the kids some crayons and said just color while you're waiting for the class and my boys were like oh my gosh is there something else we can do you know that that whole thing you know to sit there like that gauge with a pie piece of paper where their eyes tend to focus farther away than than girls eyes are built differently and so they see things that motion in a distance they're drawn to things that are emotion at a distance which is why we get that squirrel you know we get they're distracted by that thing because they're built that way they're built to be distracted by things on the perimeter because that's how they kept us safe U but those sorts of things we have to pay attention to those those biological psychological developmental differences between boys and girls kind of set aside our idea and in in our case the way that we were raised and the way that we were taught and understand that you know Boys in today's world they're they're receiving on so many channels at the same time you know that sit still be quiet pay attention to listen to one person is really difficult for boys um I mean look at their video games look at look at the TV shows that they're watching there's so much going on at the same time and I mean look at the way we watch news or Sports I mean there's things going across the bottom there's words all over the place and multiple things going on different people talking and and all kinds of channels coming on us and then we sit them in a classroom and tell them to pay attention to this one thing and focus and be quiet they learn on a lot of channels at the same time so it's no wonder that they get distracted when we tell them be quiet and sit there and focus because the whole rest of their lives there are no other places where they're just being told to focus on one single Communication Company at them there's so many things coming at them we have to recognize that they're being raised in a different world than the one that we are raised in and that their their minds are functioning differently and give them opportunities to learn and and the ways that they can best uh be engaged that's where the great learning comes from is when they're engaged and they're interested and they're active and they're moving that's where the good stuff comes from so there's some great books out there on this kind of stuff there's also great books on on the whole brain child is as as that whole series series of books that that teaches you how to stay connected uh with your with your with your kids and there's a lot of really good stuff out there for for parents right now so I'd encourage them to to to to look after some of those tools yes and I am always teaching my parents in my homeschool Community to be a student of your child because yeah boys are wired differently than girls and then each child is different a lot of people say homeschooling is easy and I just flat out disagree I think at times homeschool can feel really hard and part of it is the weight of the responsibility to not mess up our kids we are often riddled with self-doubt second guessing and feeling overwhelmed with excessive amounts of information out there and all of the options and at the same time we love our kids we don't want to mess this up so how do we build a home school that our kids will thank us for later on down the years when they are adults well the first step is joining Thrive homeschool community where you find The eight-step Homeschool success framework this helps you build an undeniably successful homeschool that gives your kids what they need now that also prepares them for their future and helps you in the daytoday as well each year and each kid presents us with Uncharted Territory but with the right plan you can rest in the security and confidence that you are doing a great job the path is easy join Thrive say a quick hello to all your new friends start right away way The eight-step Homeschool success framework and kiss anxiety goodbye it's risk-free no contracts you can cancel any time no questions asked absolutely and and we are homeschooling this is our superpower this is this is an opportunity why would we leave a prison and then just replicate this another one at home that just looks a little bit different we have the opportunity to completely reframe what learning is for our kids and it can be scary but at the same time it can really honor who they are how they learn how they're wired and it doesn't mean that you're sacrificing academics I think that's what a lot of people feel like oh if I just let my kid run in the woods they're not going to learn anything and that's not the message either it's that um you can have that academic rigor there's nothing wrong with that and doing that in a way that is more in alignment with kids and how they learn so that we get that intrinsic motivation rather than the ex trinsic which I think is vital this is why kids hate learning it's why kids hate school it's why giving grades doesn't work it it actually is the opposite of what we want because it hinders just the joy of learning just because it's fun and I love that it seems like Trail life is a place where that what is encouraged is just that exploration because that is where when you push those boundaries you end up remembering what you've learned forever and it seems like you guys really tie in some moral ethical and faith-based aspects to that very interested if you guys are curious or want an alternative to some of those other programs I think tril and if you are a Christian remember that it is a Christ centered program if that is something that you're looking for I think tril life is a great option and back to the too much tubular I just want to finish up with that why were you attracted to writing that book it's a lot different than running than doing Trail life it's kind of like the screen time what was that connection and why were you excited about this project yeah well on a on a couple different letters uh levels one is we understand there's not a lot of materials for boys to boys to read out there and so when this project came along something that we could uh give to our boys in trail life about 60% of the boys in in trail life are are homeschooled and so homeschooling parents are typically looking for something for their their kids to read and I loved the the artists that they had doing their books and just engaging way that they put these books together so I knew it would be a good tool for our boys and I knew it would be a good way of of presenting for parents a context for talking about screen time you know we have uh suggestions for our troops on how to manage digital devices on camping trips and meetings and those sorts of things but we're not real directive in that because we want to encourage those those folks to come up with their own Solutions and think about what works for them but uh too much tubular which is the name of the book just sets the table for talking about these kind of things in a kind of a Whimsical kind of way where kids can begin to see themselves in and how it is that they engage with their digit digital devices so I thought this is a great thing to put in the hands of Trail life members but also any any kids who are reading you know just just to open up that conversation between parents and their kids on on the challenges of of the digital age yeah I think it's vital for today's world and more and more kids are getting devices most of my kids friends you know in our neighborhood that we play with I would say most of our homeschool friends don't have devices but the kids who are in schools they really do and it's I feel like it's a younger and younger age and so we have had to have conversations a lot earlier than I have wanted to about what can show up on those devices and action plans for when you're somewhere and someone says hey look at my phone anything could be on there that's not safe necessarily so I think the more we can talk about devices and all of those things and how they can be addictive but they're not evil in and of themselves I love your what you mentioned about the video games and how boys really do get that what they need from that that's fascinating I had never that had never been framed for me like that thank you so much I really appreciate that that's so helpful and I just I'm excited about the conversation about what messages is our society giving us about our boys and how are they internalizing that you know we talk a lot about kids get toxic beliefs about themselves and often we don't really know what's happening but it's the messages around them like like I'm bad or I can't pay attention when actually if these conversations are out there and the more educated parents are it's not that you're bad or you're a bad student or that teacher hates you it's more about like let's talk about how you're wired and how we can take responsibility and I just love that reframing I think it's vital for parents to do nowadays don't you yeah I I really do and if we begin to see uh the Wonder in both boys and girls yeah and by and by putting them uh linking them together as if they were the same thing we lose uh just really the value of of how how different they are in a beautiful beautiful way and so I'd encourage your listeners to pay pay attention also I want to go back to you talking about the homeschooling tips there's so many you know our expertise again is the outdoors with Trail life and putting troops together and teaching boys about Awards focused adventure and those sorts of things but there's so many good people talking to homeschoolers today and I'm reminded of of Dr Kathy Cook's books and I don't know if you've had her as a guest yet but she's amazing and so bring her on and ask her that question she'll give you a much better answer than I did you know we we did our homeschooling and I understand boys and we're an organization that you know we have over 50,000 members across the country we focus on boys so we understand boys but gosh there she's got some great stuff on on homeschooling I'd encourage your listeners to to to yeah we will put that book in the show notes it's interesting I actually assigned that to my junior higher I do an interesting thing I have mommy assigned reading and I kind of rotate we rotate some faith-based stuff apologetic stuff and then we even rotate in Sex Ed and I also just assigned her eight homeschool smarts book her homeschool smarts book and then great book I did some business ones like how to win friends and influence people we kind of do like a rotation and that's afternoon reading in our home school and so if you're listening Kathy come on come on the podcast I'd love to have you I know it would be an honor well I want to hear so we have a lot of things I'm so excited to have you on so we have Trail Life USA we will put a link in the show notes about how to find that organization how to sign up and we will also put in the show notes how to find Brave books this is the December's book so this is a book that you can get now correct correct started be on sale about 10 days ago okay and then it will be available after it's not just one month right right just this is the month that if you if you subscribe it's the book of the month but you can buy it anytime okay wonderful I so appreciate you coming on the show thank you so much for coming thank you Christie appreciate you God [Music] bless