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The podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world.
If you’re a founder, executive, or high-ranking leader, you already know this truth: the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to.
Lonely at the Top is a sanctuary in the storm—a space where the emotional cost of leadership is named, and where relief, clarity, and grounded support are always on the table.
Hosted by Soul Medic and former psychotherapist Rachel Alexandria, this podcast dives into the unspoken realities of high-level decision-making: the pressure, the isolation, the doubt, and the fatigue. Each episode offers insight, emotional tools, and conversations with seasoned leaders who’ve learned to navigate the weight of responsibility without losing themselves.
Mark Silver: [00:00:00] I try to be really conscious about why am I sharing this, and what am I wanting from this, and what am I wanting to give here? And that can sound kind of contrived, and I don't believe in being emotionally messy in non-consensual spaces.
Rachel Alexandria: Welcome to Lonely at the Top, a podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world on their shoulders, because you know the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to.
Here we welcome founders, executives, and decision-makers who feel the isolation and pressure that comes with power. Lonely at the Top is your sanctuary in the storm, and I'm your host, soul medic, and former psychotherapist, Rachel Alexandria. Today on the show, we have a dear friend of mine, Mark Silver, the founder of Heart of Business.
He's a designated master teacher in his Sufi lineage, and since 2001 has been [00:01:00] helping spiritually centered business owners who really need their business to support them financially. He's the author of Heart Centered Business: Healing From Toxic Business Culture So Your Small Business Can Thrive. Mark, we've known each other since I've started a business.
It's been a long time.
Mark Silver: I don't know how long it's been. It's been quite a while. Yes.
Rachel Alexandria: Yeah. You'd probably been in business 5 or 10 years before I started mine, and I started mine almost 20 years ago.
Mark Silver: Yeah. We've been... Yeah, 'cause this is 2026. I mean, technically, I guess I started in 1999, and then Heart of Business started in 2001.
So, yes.
Rachel Alexandria: Yeah. You'd been in, like, six years by the time I got to know you. We met because of Leif Hanson, I believe.
Mark Silver: Oh, interesting. I would-- I didn't remember
Rachel Alexandria: that. Yeah. Because Leif was picking you up at the train station, and I offered to [00:02:00] drive. We were all going to a conference from a now-defunct organization called Biznick.
Mark Silver: Right.
Rachel Alexandria: You were a speaker, and Leif knew you somehow, and so I got to pick you up at the train station coming from Seattle, from Portland into Seattle.
Mark Silver: Right on. Oh, yeah. I remember that. I'm so happy you remember that. I would not have...
Rachel Alexandria: Yeah. I've just known Rachel forever. You know, I think people remember when they meet someone who seems more powerful or impressive or, you know, like you were gonna be a speaker and it's actually, I mean, actually I was gonna moderate a panel there, but I was mostly just an attendee, and so you were like, "Don't
Mark Silver: you- "Don't you know who I am?"
Rachel Alexandria: Exactly.
Mark Silver: That's hilarious.
Rachel Alexandria: Oh, I'm picking up one of the speakers, you know?
Mark Silver: That's hilarious. Right.
Rachel Alexandria: That makes me more inclined to remember. So [00:03:00] you run a business that helps other businesses, and you run a community. You've been doing this for a long time. I wanted to have you on the podcast because, you know, I've been interviewing a lot of executives and people who are kind of in corporate, but I also want to include people who might have some loneliness at the top that they've had to deal with because of something they started.
Does the concept of the show, this, like, experience this people have, that the more power, uh-
Mark Silver: You know, it's an interesting question. It's not a strong theme in my life, that. Loneliness, I think, is endemic in our culture in general, and there's definitely that. Like, culture is broken and toxic, and we don't know how to do community, you know, because we've lost that.
You know, like there's... Anyway, that's a, that's a whole systemic analysis conversation. We could get on so many soapboxes here. That's a, that's a, that's a whole systemic analysis there. And so there's, there's [00:04:00] definitely, you know... My wife Holly and I here, we, um, in Central Pennsylvania, we definitely face this sense of like it's hard to gather community around us.
I feel like I've been both conscious and fortunate in that for years I had a mastermind group with other business owners, with people that I really cared about, and I'm still friends with some of them to, you know, like regular contact. But we had, we had that for, like, 15 years, and I have other friends who are in a similar position, and because, as well as my wife Holly, who co-runs the company with me.
And with a small company, there's not bureaucratic politics. Like, some of my clients I've worked in, and a client I was just speaking to earlier, you know, is in larger organizations where I feel like there can be that sense of separation. That, it's not so strong. It's not such a strong [00:05:00] feeling for me, if that makes sense.
I'm kind of dancing around it because- Yeah ... it's like I don't feel like it's a clear yes or no, 'cause I feel like there are themes of, of isolation that are in the culture. I feel like there's themes of isolation in my own personality. I feel like there are difficulties. You know, it's like we... I mean, Holly and I were just talking this morning going, "Oh my God, how do we find time to sit down and have a meeting between like we're parenting teens, we're, we have a food forest we're trying to create.
You know, there's chronic issues in the family I won't talk about." But there's, there's all this stuff, and it's like, okay, how do you have a business meeting and feel less alone making those choices? And I feel like that's It's less the weight that I'm imagining someone might feel as they, you know, as I've heard from folks.
You know, it's like, okay- Mm-hmm ... when you're CEO or an executive, and it's like, okay, there's people that I can't share this information with. Well, I, I do have that. Just trying [00:06:00] just trying to have the conversation. So I think, like, as you're asking me the question, as I'm talking through it, I think there are definitely themes of that, and it's probably flavored a little differently.
Rachel Alexandria: Yeah. I have to ask if you are an external processor?
Mark Silver: I do process externally. I'm a bit of an extrovert, and I definitely process externally. Yes.
Rachel Alexandria: I just wanted to call that out because part of my mission, I think, with this show ongoingly is to normalize some of the psychological things that I think I take for granted and understand about, like, people's differences, and this is one of them.
Hmm. Like, some people, they come to the show and they're like, "I have it prepared. I know my answer. Bam. It's this," because they prepped ahead of time, and some people come on the show and they're like, "Let me wander around this question to find my way into the answer." And neither of these is right or wrong, right?
But I wanted to call that out. Like, I really noticed the external processing. It's good to name that.
Mark Silver: It's good to name that. I feel really comfortable doing it, obviously, 'cause here I am. But yeah, it's good to see [00:07:00] that. Yeah.
Rachel Alexandria: I do that some too, so I totally get it. You and I are both extroverts. I guess I'm just curious in this moment how much that helps with bringing people in and prevents some of the loneliness, just being more of an extrovert, being more of an external processor, if that invites in more connection just naturally.
Mark Silver: Well, I mean, it's an interesting question. I don't know at a larger level the trueness of that. I know for me, I had to go through a lot of earlier stuff of, as a younger person, you know, I'm 58 now, and as a younger person, like, not wanting to show mistakes, not wanting to show rough edges, like, not feeling like that was okay, and I had to, like, be okay with being messy, and that's something that I've gotten way comfortable with, and I think that that does.
I think that it makes one approachable, and I think that it does invite people in. I'm not... You know, like, I've been self-employed for... [00:08:00] I mean, self-employed. We have a company. We have a tiny team, but it's still much more on the kind of- tiny business side of things rather than organizational. And, um, feel like collaboration is something I'm still learning-
Rachel Alexandria: Interesting
Mark Silver: is maybe the, a good way to put that.
Rachel Alexandria: I really thought about having you on the show because I've seen you, like, I've been in your community before. I was in the Heart of Business Foundations, I believe it was called-
Mark Silver: Mm-hmm ...
Rachel Alexandria: for a year maybe. And a lot of your community is built online, both in your public postings and in the private community.
So I've seen a good helping of what that looks like, and I've seen things that made me wonder or, you know, I guess made me assume that you were having to hold some kind of stance of both closeness and distance, like appropriate distance from your community. For example, I know you've posted a lot about times where you need assistance finding something or you're [00:09:00] going through some kind of health thing or whatever, and when you're just sharing, you have to very explicitly say, "I'm not looking for advice," or, "Please don't give me advice."
So what's that like for you to have so many people connected in with your heart- And to also have to navigate keeping them at a different distance than your wife or your close friends, for example.
Mark Silver: Yeah. Well, s- so for me, it's a question of consent, right? It's like we want consent-based culture, consent-based relationships, and I think a big part of having, at least a, a significant part of having consent-based relationships is, you know, something that I originally learned in non-violent communication training years and years ago, is just being able to make requests.
And, like, what is it that I need? I think in my past I've been much messier about that. About like, "Oh, here, I'm struggling with something. There's this mess." I don't really even know how to articulate the fact that I [00:10:00] need something. I'm just like, br- And, and so that invites anyone who encounters that to go into their natural mode of however they meet.
Some people give empathy. Some people give solutions. Some people, whatever. You know, like, there's different ways people respond to that. And I think that as I've matured and as I've studied and learned and practiced, I've gotten much better at making requests about what it is that I'm wanting in any particular context.
So, you know, if I'm talking to Holly, if I'm talking to one of my close friends, I'm like, "Here's my mess. This is what I could really use from you in this context." And then, you know, in public or parasocial terms, parasocial relationships, if people are familiar with that term, I just take extra care to try to make accurate requests about what I'm actually needing in that context so that I'm not receiving something that I don't want and that other people aren't feeling the need to respond in a [00:11:00] way that's not helpful.
So, does that make sense? Am I being clear?
Rachel Alexandria: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's always definitely made sense to me. You're also talking to somebody who's trained in NVC, yeah.
Mark Silver: Right. So for instance, I don't like to pretend that everything's hunky dory. I struggle with a lot of things, right? There's, like, we all struggle with things.
Yeah. Especially in such a toxic culture, you know? Uh, and stage capitalism, white supremacy, patriarchy, et cetera, heteronormativity, et cetera, et cetera. A lot of ways that we get twisted into and harmed. And so for me to name some way that I'm struggling, I don't have the consent in s- a lot of these environments.
Like, they're not my therapist. They're not my... Like, they're not, like, that's not the role they agreed to play. That's in the role I asked them to play. And so when I'm sharing, I try to get, in those contexts, I try to be really conscious about why am I sharing this? And what am I wanting from this and what am I wanting to give here?
Mm-hmm. And that can sound [00:12:00] kind of contrived, and I just, I don't believe in being emotionally messy in non-consensual spaces. So that's kind of how I think about it. Yeah.
Rachel Alexandria: I-
Mark Silver: So I-
Rachel Alexandria: I don't hear contrivance. I hear you're taking your position, your role as a culture leader. If people are following you, that's part of what you are.
Like, just like David White or Brene Brown, you're a person who's leading some portion of culture, and you're taking that role with responsibility. So it's interesting that you put it that way. If you're gonna share authentically and about messiness, you're not violating their unexpressed consent about what to do with that.
Mark Silver: Right.
Rachel Alexandria: Or how to take that. That's very deep and multilayered, and I see that as highly integrous, but it also sounds like a lot of work.
Mark Silver: I don't think so.
Rachel Alexandria: Not for you?
Mark Silver: Not for me. I think that, well, I think, you know, like [00:13:00] any kind of skill like that, when you're new at it, it's like, "God, that's..." Yeah, it is. It's a lot.
Mm. But at this point, I don't know if mastery is the right word, but I have fluidity with the work, so it feels good, you know? I feel like I'm fortunate, especially as a man, that, you know, I came out as bisexual in 1988, and I spent years in queer community. Um-
Rachel Alexandria: Yeah ...
Mark Silver: and I feel like that was such a... I mean, not like I'm not in queer community.
I mean explicitly queer community, radical fairy community, you know, just amazing, wonderful men. And so I became much more comfortable with the range of my emotions than I, than I had up to that point or I might have if I had just been straight or been in a heteronormative kind of space. Mm. And so that fluidity and the comfort with my emotions, I think has then led down a path that has included learning conscious communication and learning consent-based relationship- Mm
tools and, you know, just kind of understanding, like, damn, our culture's [00:14:00] messed up around relationship, among other things, and I think I'd like to do this a little... You know, Holly and I are like, "Well, I think we wanna do this a little differently," so.
Rachel Alexandria: And it's different than a person who doesn't lead any culture or kind of community.
It's different than they would do on just Facebook. Like, other people, whether or not it's healthy, feel free to just post whatever they feel like and not need to necessarily employ as much concern about how that's gonna land with people. Because maybe they're only talking- Mm ... to 50 people who all have their phone number and can just call and be like, "Are you okay?"
Mark Silver: Right. Right.
Rachel Alexandria: So
Mark Silver: Right, and that's ex- I think that's exactly right. And because I have my circles that are the equivalent of that- Mm ... that are not Facebook. You know, I have this text thread that I'm on that I can be, you know, with folks that I'm good friends with- Mm-hmm ... that I can, I can be messy with them, right?
And they're like, "Hey, Silver, you all right?" Yeah. And, [00:15:00] um, yeah, I think it's understanding those circles and how we wanna show up, and I think that it's... I think, you know, talking about lonely at the top and leadership, I think that this is an important skill that's lacking in the culture. You know, I feel really fortunate that I stumbled upon the need for it and then had the support of people in my life to take that on and had some really good people to learn from and practice with over years.
Rachel Alexandria: Before you ever really had an external community that you were shepherding or-
Mark Silver: Yeah ...
Rachel Alexandria: or leading.
Mark Silver: Yeah. And at least the beginnings of it. Of course, it's been honed and deepened because of that, but I think it's a missing... You know, it's a piece that everyone in the culture could use 'cause I think that leadership is an, you know-
Rachel Alexandria: But especially spiritual leadership
Mark Silver: Well, spiritual.
So
Rachel Alexandria: Sp- spiritual leadership is like popular spiritual leadership That's a, that's- I don't, I don't describe that, but not just a single minister or pastor or shamanic practitioner or whatever you [00:16:00] have with their 20 or 30 people, but people who influence thousands or hundreds of thousands, like these are skills that are lacking.
Mark Silver: They're lacking. The way that I would state it is it's not even necessarily the number of followers, but it's whether you exist in a lineage that has accountability.
Rachel Alexandria: Mm.
Mark Silver: Like as a teacher, I feel like there's a lot of, in the West, and I'm sure in the... I'm sure everywhere there are even people within lineages when the lineages are maybe broken or not intact or don't have those structures.
But there's a lot of folks who are just freelancing spiritual leadership- Mm ... without, they're just out there wilding without any accountability structure, without anybody who's like, "Dude, you're off. Like this is not right. Like we need to check in about this." And, um-
Rachel Alexandria: That was, as one of my clients and a guest on the show previously said to me privately, "It's Enlightenment Inc."
Mark Silver: Yeah, exactly. Well, capitalism twists everything, and it's done a number on our spiritual [00:17:00] marketplace. So yeah, and so this kind of understanding of consent and accountability is so... I mean, it's just critical. It's just critical.
Rachel Alexandria: So part of what I'm hearing, not to be overly reductionist or overly simplifying, is actually that you are less lonely at the top because you've put the work in to hold yourself accountable amongst your people.
Mark Silver: I think that that's true, and I think it's also true that I'm operating within, I mean, aside from the structures of the larger culture, but, like, we founded this business. I created the structure. So I can create the structure, and I know that others are caught in organizations where they don't have as much control around changing the structure that they're within.
And if I'm like, "Okay, this structure sucks, we need to change it," you know, or there's something about this that isn't working or isn't supportive, we can then make those changes. Like, I recently created kind of like a, a [00:18:00] side project if you work with Sufi Zawiya and started doing... And I'd specifically found two spiritual teachers, one in my lineage and one outside my lineage, who are willing to agree to function as ombudsmen.
So if there were anybody in that spiritual community, if they were like, "Okay, Mark's off. I don't really want to approach him," and there's, so there's a structure there that they can go directly to these other teachers who will then come to me and hold me accountable. And I created that, one, because as a man leading, white man leading this kind of spiritual community, I wanted people to feel safe, and so it was a way of communicating safety, but it was also a way to build safety in.
And so I don't know how much... Sometimes when we're in larger organizations, there's very little control we have over changing a structure when a structure has something toxic, toxic mechanism, a toxic, you know, workflow, toxic org chart built into it, and there's not the permission to make those changes.
Rachel Alexandria: [00:19:00] That's, that's true. And you and I absolutely know people who have created their structures and then are caught in them as if it's something external.
Mark Silver: Yes.
Rachel Alexandria: So- Yeah ... you have a particular expertise or awareness- I
Mark Silver: try ...
Rachel Alexandria: or fluidity, as you said, with being able to create a structure and then come back up out of it and evaluate that structure rather than letting it govern or trap you.
We do get caught in, and a lot of the time we also get caught in the nets that we have made for ourselves. Mm-hmm. So I wanna ask you about a time when you were stuck in leadership. Like, what is a decision or a leadership season that really tested you?
Mark Silver: It's such an interesting question for me because of the nature of the work that I do and the nature of the organization.
I have rarely had the self-concept of leadership or leader. Like, that's not how I think of myself because [00:20:00] I'm not in an organiz- you know, I mean, I do and I don't. And so all the decisions that I've made, like, you know, like trying to develop a business in alignment with my- Yeah ... values, with, in alignment with ethics and values and spiritual alignment, I just...
The whole thing has been a test. I don't mean test in terms of being arduous. I just mean that it's like there's always, there's always a question of, you know, like we're always moving into the unknown. Mm-hmm. Like if I... We've got an offer right now. I'm like, I'm- Mm-hmm ... we're experimenting with a new offer-
Rachel Alexandria: Mm-hmm
Mark Silver: that we just put out into the world. I'm like, "Is anybody gonna respond to it?" Like, it's an experiment. We'll see. I don't know if it's gonna work. You know, there's this question of, there's so much, so many terrible things going on in the world, like just incredibly toxic, terrible, dangerous leadership at the head of my country- Mm-hmm
and the head of the United States and, and how that's impacting the world, and there's always a question of like, okay, so we need to acknowledge that and spend time with that with our [00:21:00] clients, like in our community, in the business, but I also don't want it to rob us of more time than it's already robbing us of.
Mm-hmm. So it's like, how do we- Balance acknowledgement without getting stuck there and then not tending to the things that really need tending and other things that need tending and care. And so I think that that's, I think, like, the thing that I'm always being pulled on and I'm having to ask really deeply inside myself is, like, where does my attention need to be?
Rachel Alexandria: Mm-hmm.
Mark Silver: What needs tending to in this moment, and what's the path forward with it?
Rachel Alexandria: Yeah.
Mark Silver: Because... And I-- believe me, I'm not under any illu- I mean, we're a tiny company and we don't have a lot of capacity for projects because of the number of people. But even if we had 10 times or 100 times the people, there'd still be more projects than people, 'cause that's how humans tend to do things.
And so, you know, how to make choices, you know, how to listen for what the next step is. And [00:22:00] so I'm someone who creates content really easily. Like, I create content, so, like, developing- Mm-hmm ... a course, and we're marketing something, and we're also trying to develop some internal leadership capacity within our community 'cause we have facilitators, and then we're also implementing...
Like, I'm getting coached and getting next level, like DEIB, diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging practices to strengthen, continue to strengthen that and deepen that and it's more than you can do in a week. And so-
Rachel Alexandria: Mm-hmm ...
Mark Silver: listening, listening, listening, listening Okay, so, and then also listening- Yeah ... like, okay, I'm tired, so I need to rest.
Pushing through isn't going to do anything. And so I think that that's constantly testing me in that sense of like, am I truly listening? Am I truly listening to what's being asked in this moment? Am I, uh, is this, is this being articul- am I being articulate? Yeah. I'm
Rachel Alexandria: with you. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Every once in a while I have a [00:23:00] guest who speaks so closely to my own experience, to the things that I try to employ, so I kind of have to, like, keep my interviewer hat on and not like, "Yeah, feels good to be..."
It feels good to be in this place of more fully connected place of listening. And, like, for me, the thing that I'm working on with my teacher lately is the way that I... You know, when I want something to be happening in my business that's different than what's happening, the way that my brain wants to exert and look for answers and do stuff in a scrambling way and, and that almost never works.
It probably never works. My brain's like, "It does sometimes," but no, it never really works. What does work is listening and making a practice of that. So I have a note on my second screen over there that says, "Spirit is my business manager." That's who I have to check in with every day and listen and, and say, [00:24:00] "What is my divinely inspired action today?"
For the folks who are listening to this, this is my experience, and this is Mark's experience. Everyone has a different experience of something greater in some sort of way. This isn't about trying to evangelize for any particular tradition. I sort of am like a, I like to freelance spirit. I'm also attracted to how you were talking about lineage because am, am I part of a lineage?
Like, I come from the lineage of people who taught me, but it's not really specifically contained to one culture. But I do think any person who leads, if they're leading well, they have to be listening to more than just their brain. Inshallah.
Mark Silver: God willing. Yeah.
Rachel Alexandria: Okay. So at the top, no one gets to see your balance sheet of burdens, even if you lead as openly as you do, Mark.
So here we like to open the private ledger and ask a few questions about what's going on in the background [00:25:00] for you.
Mark Silver: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Alexandria: So can you tell me one cost you have paid for being in leadership?
Mark Silver: cost I've paid for being in leadership. I feel like a cost I've paid for not being in, the times I haven't been in leadership, has been to kind of just a loss of my own sovereignty, loss of a sense of my own sovereignty or stewardship over my life.
I feel like cost for leadership
Rachel Alexandria: Yeah, like what did it take you from you emotionally, relationally, physically? What is something you have sacrificed?
Mark Silver: I feel like every time I've stepped into leadership, it's only given. I don't feel like it's ever taken. I don't feel like it's ever taken. Is it taken? How would I answer that?
So I should be clear that when I talk about stepping into leadership, I mean at this point in my journey, that's a, there's like a spiritual surrender that's involved in the listening, and that's only ever been a benefit. I don't ever... Like, the cost has been, [00:26:00] has always come from listening to my brain instead of listening to the heart, you know?
Like, as you were, as you were saying, Rachel. So it's like, um-
Rachel Alexandria: It, it's a valid answer.
Mark Silver: Yeah. I mean, I'm really-
Rachel Alexandria: I always like hearing a different answer, you know? I haven't heard this one. I've only ever heard it cost me in different ways. I've never heard it cost me to not. That's super interesting.
Mark Silver: Yeah.
There are so many times when I think of my younger self where I was afraid to step into... And by leadership, again, I don't mean leading other people necessarily, but stepping, what some people might say stepping into authenticity or stepping into power or stepping into, like, what's true or sovereignty or stewardship of one's life, or there's so many different ways to talk about it.
I can only think of times that it's cost me to not, like, when I haven't.
Rachel Alexandria: Yeah.
Mark Silver: And every time I have, there's always been a, a trueness to what ensues, and I don't think I would ever call that a cost.
Rachel Alexandria: Mm-hmm. And as a result, you've been [00:27:00] in leadership of humans.
Mark Silver: Right.
Rachel Alexandria: So It must naturally follow that you feel like it hasn't cost you anything, because what I hear you saying is listening deeply to your heart and to your sense of something greater has only ever benefited you.
It has only ever made you feel more whole and complete, and what's followed from that is the work that you do. And so you don't feel a sense of loss, you only feel gain.
Mark Silver: That's true. I think, like, and even when I think back to, like, so in a previous life I was a paramedic in the San Francisco Bay Area in Oakland, California, and there's a certain amount of leadership that comes in that kind of an emergency, you know, first responder kind of capacity.
Oh
Rachel Alexandria: my gosh,
Mark Silver: yeah. And, um, and I didn't have any of this, I didn't have any of these spiritual tools or anything at that time. I just had the command structure and incident command structure to lean into, you know? And similarly, every time I ste- you know, like when there was a [00:28:00] need for leadership, stepping into that helped, you know?
And not stepping into it meant that there was- Mm ... there were no hands on the steering wheel, you know? I had become, like in our union, I became a shop steward and stepped into leadership there, and we ran a campaign because we had a really toxic boss and we got her fired, and that was, you know, like every time I've stepped into from a place of sincerity, it's only been a benefit.
And I think that there have been times where I didn't know how to step into leadership, and I struggled with how to do that, and there was a cost to doing it badly.
Rachel Alexandria: Mm.
Mark Silver: You know? It's like when you do it badly, there's a terrible cost. Yeah. Um, but you know, but that's a learning process also, you know? So-
Rachel Alexandria: I love that, and it makes sense for you.
Like, for you, leadership is in a way an act of surrender to being in partnership with what I would, like, call the knowing field. We say that in family constellations, the [00:29:00] knowing field.
Mark Silver: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Alexandria: And I love that it doesn't feel like it costs you at all. It feel like s- it feels like it's only benefiting you, and I mean, that's the kind of people we want in leadership.
Mark Silver: Yeah.
Rachel Alexandria: I love that. I mean, that's what we want is we don't want people who are doing it from a place of getting burned out and being resentful, like they're... E- even if they're good people, that's not good for the system. People say this to me a lot of times, like, "Oh my gosh, I could never be a therapist. How do you do this?"
And I'm like, "This doesn't cost me."
Mark Silver: Right. "
Rachel Alexandria: This is what I'm meant for. You know, I do this because I love it, and when I don't do my work for too long, I start to feel weird because this is what it feels like to contribute to the balance of my soul being on the planet. I feel out of balance when I don't do my work."
So, okay. One invisible asset that you didn't realize you had at the time, like early on.
Mark Silver: One invisible asset. I don't think I realized that I had [00:30:00] this gift for seeing structure.
Rachel Alexandria: Mm.
Mark Silver: I think it took a, me a long time to see it and to appreciate it. There's lots of things I don't have skills at or that I don't have gifts for, and I depend on people who have those gifts tremendously.
But I see structure and I see patterns.
Rachel Alexandria: Mm.
Mark Silver: And, and it's helped tremendously. The first, like where it first came out in terms of this work is that I was studying really esoteric spiritual work with my Sufi teachers. Mm. And I was also studying business, and I was seeing where the underlying structures overlaid each other.
It's like, oh, here's an esoteric spiritual teaching, and here's a business teaching or principle, and I can see where they overlaid. And that's really a lot of where- Mm ... Heart of Business came from. Like seeing like, oh, the spiritual presence in the physical. And, you know, one, I didn't realize it consciously for [00:31:00] quite a while, and I didn't realize it was like a special
Like, I didn't know any ... Not ev- not just everyone can do that. Yeah. So,
So that's, that's been a huge asset and been a huge piece of my, you know, my life work.
Rachel Alexandria: I love that. What is one investment that you're making now for your wellbeing or your soul?
Mark Silver: Planting trees. I'm really into regenerative agriculture and food forests. I'm on the board of Horn Farm Center, which is a local working farm and educational center for regenerative agriculture here in York County, Pennsylvania.
And, um, we have some acres where we live and, you know, in the few years that we've lived on this property, we've planted 80 or 90 fruit and nut trees and shrubs. That's so cool. And tending to them, and then just recently as spring came on, I took all these cuttings from red osier dogwood and from, um, willow and from [00:32:00] hazelnut and sprouting them, and now I've got all of the-- I've got probably another 50 plants growing in a little bucket that are- Oh, that's so cool
taking root that we'll plant out on the property, you know, later in the fall. And so, like, that connection- Mm ... to the natural cycle and to growing food in a more regenerative, more supportive way takes time and money and attention and energy and takes tending to. And it feeds me spiritually and it hopefully, you know, it is-- I mean, we have gotten, we have gotten fruit and nuts, feeding, and that we're hoping that we'll eventually be growing so much that we'll be contributing to the food shed and, you know, the regional food security.
So that's-
Rachel Alexandria: That's amazing ...
Mark Silver: it's a big one.
Rachel Alexandria: That feels wonderful. For those who may not know Mark, if you follow him on his socials, you'll see him post from the forest with him and his dogs and, you know, spiritual business musings and things that make you go, "Hmm," for all my Boomer and Gen X kids out there.[00:33:00]
It is really... That's really cool. I'm not as much of a plant person, although I do love seeing and having them around. And when my housemaid moved out, she was the gardener, and I was like, "Oh no, I miss my plants," even though I don't wanna have to tend to them. Like, I do house plants, you know. And then I was like, "What all-- Do I have space to get a hydroponic farm?"
I start to think about that kind of stuff. But bless all of the plant people, you, my mom, who's a master gardener. You are all amazing, and we all benefit so much from having you. Okay, I have two questions left. What do you wish more leaders felt permission to say out loud?
Mark Silver: In the Islamic tradition that I practice in, the Sufi Islamic tradition that I practice in, there's stories from the caliphs who were leaders in the young Muslim community after the Prophet Muhammad Alayhi As-Salam died.
There was a woman who disagreed with... Like, he was up [00:34:00] speaking, and the woman said, "This is not right. This is not right, and what you're saying isn't right." And the story is told, like, he was in tears of gratitude-
Rachel Alexandria: Hmm ...
Mark Silver: that people would speak up and tell him when he wasn't right. And it's like, "You are right, and I am wrong."
And so that's what I want from any leadership, like, a humility and a sincerity and a willingness to admit mistakes-
Rachel Alexandria: Hmm ...
Mark Silver: and, um, and to receive correction with the gratitude and a joyfulness and without defensiveness.
Rachel Alexandria: I've had people on the show say they wish leaders could say, "I was wrong," but I hear a nuance in what you're offering, which is you wish more leaders could say, "Thank you for telling me I was wrong," which is different, right?
Mark Silver: It is different.
Rachel Alexandria: You get to be a little bit more powerful if you're the one who says, "Oh, I was wrong. I realized I was wrong." But to be able to receive it from other people in the [00:35:00] moment, and in the moment be vulnerable and take something in and reassess and then say, "Thank you for telling me," like, that's so honoring of people, right?
Like, yeah, I agree with you. Okay. Before we get to the last question, I always like to ask guests on the show, if people who hear this want to, in some way, get in touch with you or to follow your work, how would you recommend they do that?
Mark Silver: Yeah, so two things. One is artofbusiness.com. We have an email list.
I'm on socials, probably most a- active currently on Facebook, but also on Instagram and also on LinkedIn. And I wrote a book that you've mentioned the name of. Thank you very much. And I should have it within easy hand's reach for these kinds of things, but I don't. I've got a stack over here, which I will-
Rachel Alexandria: Oh, man
Mark Silver: um-
Rachel Alexandria: I-
Mark Silver: So- ...
Rachel Alexandria: don't think I
Mark Silver: have it
Rachel Alexandria: by me.
Mark Silver: Yeah, so it's the- Yeah.[00:36:00]
Rachel Alexandria: So Mine's in the restroom where I read it.
Mark Silver: So this is a great way to, like, if you're curious about our approach to business development, this book that's, you know- Heart-centered business ... if you've ever written a book, you know what goes into it, so just, like, pour it into it.
Rachel Alexandria: I have, I have written two. Yes.
So it is a pain in the butt.
Mark Silver: It is. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work and care.
Rachel Alexandria: So that's how they should get ahold of you. Yeah. Okay. We'll put all of that in the show notes, of course. And the last question involves... I'm super curious what you're gonna say, because every answer you've given today has been different than the kind of median answers I've received before from people.
So if you could go back in time, we're opening the time machine. If you could go back in time, what would you say to yourself early in your career?
Mark Silver: Would ruin everything. That's the time paradox.
Rachel Alexandria: Assuming it doesn't change anything for the time. Paradox is theoretical. [00:37:00] We have never experienced this. Yes.
It's only theoretical.
Mark Silver: Yes. Ah. I mean, what I'm getting in this moment is something like, "You are enough," which I think I had a lot of doubts. I definitely had a lot of doubts about that when I was younger.
Rachel Alexandria: I don't know if any of us can hear that often enough.
Mark Silver: Yeah.
Rachel Alexandria: So probably time-wise it would be okay. It would just be a little less painful.
I love it. Thank you so much for being here with us today, Mark.
Mark Silver: Thank you for holding such a beautiful space. It's made it very easy to open and be present, so.
Rachel Alexandria: Yay. Absolutely. It's one of the things I really enjoy doing. Thanks for listening to Lonely at the Top. If today's conversation resonated, I hope you'll give yourself permission to pause, even for a moment, and check in with what you might be carrying silently.
You don't have to hold it all alone. I work with leaders and high performers who [00:38:00] wanna clean up their secret messes, like burnout, people pleasing, perfectionism. You can learn more at rachealexandria.com. And if you know another leader who needs to hear this show, please send it their way, because, yeah, it's lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to stay that way.
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