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There are those in the spotlight, and then there is Everybody Else.
Hosted by Wes Luttrell (Indiana-based artist growth coach and label founder), Everybody Else is a podcast dedicated to the invisible people who make music happen. Featuring solo commentary and insightful interviews with record label execs, tour managers, music tech founders, producers, venue managers, and a slew of others, this show's mission is to pull back the curtain on the lives and ways of thinking of those who make up the modern music ecosystem. New episodes streaming every Tuesday.
This is the Everybody Else Podcast. Who are the invisible people of music today and what do they do to make music happen? Because behind every great artist, song, venue, festival, and music service, there's a tribe of people who will dedicate their lives to work that if done right, will never appear to have happened. There are those in the spotlight, and then there's everybody else.
Speaker 2:What do you guys do?
Speaker 3:Sure. I mean, the main idea of SOAR Music Group is really to help artists and labels grow. So really just to help them like SOAR. So that's where the name comes from, to be honest. So that's kind of the core vision.
Speaker 3:We really wanna make sure that we can help achieve everyone's goals in the industry, really empower artists and labels, providing them with the right tools and and you know, expertise and and support to to reach their goals. That's that's kind of the core idea, to be honest.
Speaker 2:What would you say today your role is I mean, you've you've founded the company?
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yep. Your role today is CEO? Like, you're you're spearheading it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Pretty much. So I founded it five years ago just by myself right before when COVID hit, which didn't affect us to me, to be honest. Didn't affect us as much because we're focusing on the digital space mostly. So at the time, my role was completely different from what it is now.
Speaker 3:So at the time, I was really just doing everything by myself, and then I had one person joining me both from a business development and project management point of view. So kind of like supporting me or both tackling things together as as a team. But slowly, you know, we've grown into a team of nine people now. And then two people joining next week as well. So I've really, you know, slowly but surely like went into more of a like a delegation role where Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, I'm I'm delegating things to people and and overseeing things. So I always wanna make sure that the quality still stays intact. And I think that's that's kind of my main I wouldn't say concern, but like my main point of view. I wanna make sure that everyone's still a 100% aligned because I don't wanna end up in a situation where, you know, you're growing as a team and then things get kind of the like diluted. And, you know, people are are working by themselves and not really communicating with one another, and we're not really aligned with with the exact goals and and having the sense of clarity of like, you know, what we're working on for every individual project as well.
Speaker 3:So I wanna make sure that whilst we're growing, we still keep hold on to that core mentality of making sure that, you know, we're doing everything correctly as, you know, getting everything as successful as possible.
Speaker 2:How would you say like, do you have ways that as as the leader, you know, as as the person out in front, do you have ways of communicating, you know, like these principles or these these quality standards? Do you have ways of communicating this to your team that is, you know, like, don't know, would you put them in like a core value category?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, I guess there there's a sense of company culture, I guess you can call it like that. So Yeah. I really try to convey, you know, the messages that we stand for as clearly as possible. But I think a lot of that has to do with making sure that the person next to you can convey that message further on as well properly.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So right now we've got Chris who's leading the campaign management team. Kind of my eyes and ears in in that sense as well to make sure that, you know, the the daily on a daily basis, he conveys that message properly. Just one example as well is that I used to do all the one on ones on a weekly basis myself, like individually with every one of them from the team. But now, like, I've kind of like delegated that as well, where, you know, right now Chris is taking on those like one on one calls to make sure that everyone's still aligned.
Speaker 3:But obviously, at some point, like, I can't do these things all by myself. So that that's really something in the process that I wanna make sure that whilst I'm not on those calls myself, I wanna make sure that that's still, you know, being done properly and everyone's still fully aligned with with whatever they're working on.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's interesting. You know, like, think that I've noticed that working with you guys, Chris is taking a more yeah. Like like, leadership role among that specific category.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:How do you find how do you find team? Like how do you find teammates? How do you how do you Or what do you look for in somebody like these two people you're hiring or somebody more like Chris, whereas like a, you know, more of like a manager of a group. How do you Yeah. Look like, do you look for in these people?
Speaker 3:I mean, a lot of the people that came to the team were referrals as well. So actually, Chris Chris himself was a referral through through Bibs, who was part of the team as well. So that's definitely a part of it. Because, you know, referrals are always great because that kind of like checks off a certain certain level of like, you know, verification in a way. Like making sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah. In this case, a person, you know, is is is legit and like, you know, obviously they're referred. So someone is kind of like stepping in and and putting their I wouldn't wouldn't say almost, but like putting putting their reputation online if if they do that. Right? So, you know, it's a very important thing for me.
Speaker 3:I think, you know, the the industry that we're in, it's really about it has a very heavy, like, social aspect to it as well with every everything that we do and everyone that we're in touch with. So that obviously is a big big important factor for me. But at the same time, I I I do look for when I haven't met the person before. I do obviously look at the experience, if they've already had at least some kind of like indication that they they had some interest in the music industry. Because sometimes I've I've had calls with people and like I'm looking for someone to join the team, but then, you know, there's been zero indication before that they're actually wanting to do something in the industry.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying like I would shoot down that that idea like from the get go, but like if a person is super excited and maybe they they've made a shift in like their mindset and they they really wanted to steer away from let's say, I don't know, financial industry to to music and entertainment, you know, that's all great, and I really cheer cheer that on. But it is one factor that I look for, and and if that's not the case, obviously, I would be asking more questions like, why are you, you know, interest joining the herd or joining the music industry. So that's something I look for. The other thing is really just, I would say, pure like enthusiasm, like what they're looking for, what their core beliefs are like at from a personal level as well, you know. I think that's a very
Speaker 3:Yeah. Important factor. So I'm not looking for people that are already They they don't have to be like, you know, perfect and cross off every check mark, but it's really about like the intention that they have. I think that's very important for me as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would think as a small company, as a small organization, having the energy of one person is gonna affect, even if it's like, know, their role's not significant, it's gonna ripple into the other nine teammates, the other 10 teammates. I could see how the energy of that person is really important. When when you're when you're like today, what are you personally like focused on you'd say? Like I know you're bringing on these two people, but in terms of project or where the company is headed, is there something that you focus on?
Speaker 2:Is that building your network? Is that a product? Is there something that you are personally spending a lot of your time doing right now?
Speaker 3:I am still occasionally personally involved in in projects as as you as you know. It's not, you know, it's definitely not like on a on a daily basis, but there there are sometimes like handful of projects where I just wanna make sure that whether it's that I know the person, like, directly from from a past history or, I just really wanna make sure that, you know, everything's being done right. So sometimes I would take on some work, But I would say the majority of my work is really more focusing around, like, properly structuring the company as we're, you know, developing. A very simple example is about making sure right now that we need to get the right CRM system. Know, like, it can be very, like, for for regular people in the industry, it might be something that sounds super boring, but for me, it's super important to make sure that those things, whether it's the right tools or, like, just structured wise or some administrative thing as well, like that is being done properly too.
Speaker 3:So, I mean, there's still a lot of different aspects that I'm touching touching upon that you would normally not see from the front side of things.
Speaker 2:And this is this is exactly, I think, like the reality of the music business, of the music industry is that and this is I think why it's important, like why I started this show is because too, think that the work of I think people look at it like you do this like fancy exciting work and it's like that shit is like the benefit of it, that's the outcome, but like the real work is like sifting through CRMs, finding what the hell's gonna fit for your team. These are like the real day to day. And what's funny though is like I'm sure it gets you excited when you find the right fit for a product like that or like a tool like that that really ignites you and gets you going. But I think that it's it's just, you know, that's what the reality of the work is. Right?
Speaker 2:Like that's what the day to day really is, is much more of these like structure team leading reality of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Definitely. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, we're we're a business. We're a business in the music industry, but we're still a business, you know. Like, every business has certain things that they they need to do.
Speaker 3:And I think there's a lot of similarities that you can draw from, let's say, a music business to a a financial or even like an HR business or or whichever, you know, you may choose. But there's a lot of similarities in terms of like the processes that you need to undergo and like the different structures and and and and tools and systems. Yeah, I mean, that that's also definitely part of it.
Speaker 2:Is it Are you Do you Are there other Are there parallels, like you mentioned, a financial or an HR company? Are there other industries that you look to for inspiration or for like pulling off models that they're using to implement into your business that maybe aren't necessarily like stuff that people would teach you in building a music business? Does that make sense? Like, are you looking at other examples of places? Or No.
Speaker 2:How do you figure this shit out, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's that's a great question though. I I'm not necessarily looking at like other industries as much. I think the only industry that I'm looking at more closely is is just generally the tech industry. Because I'm I'm a very big proponent of combining music and tech.
Speaker 3:It really helps, at least in our case, it helps us to scale a lot and move a lot quicker. A lot of times, even earlier today, I was talking to someone and and they were very amazed about like how fast we're moving with things. And that's actually something I'm hearing back a lot. I think partially it's because we're a young, small company within the music industry as opposed to, let's say, you know, the old majors who are very rooted, like, in their in their structures. But, yeah, I do look a lot at the tech side of things and and and see where we can innovate or tools that we can use that maybe you wouldn't necessarily think of when thinking of the music industry.
Speaker 3:But maybe from, let's say, a business development point of view or just an HR point of view or administrative point of view, or financial, or whatever it may be. Like, you know, the way we take payments, and now we're we've started using Stripe, and, you know, now I'm I was looking into, oh, maybe as a startup, we can get credits for Stripe, and like, oh, that's awesome, like, we're saving money, you know, like, it sounds very boring, but, you know, it's part of the business, so yeah.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. Are you, do you have, do you have mentors in music, would you say? Do you have people that you or or even in business that you Mhmm. Call on or that you meet with who help you stay focused and develop along like a linear path?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I always found the idea of mentors very interesting. I definitely think it's a big benefit to have. I haven't really as much had like, I've never had a a full on, like, mentorship or or a person that I could always go to and ask for questions. Although, I would definitely have loved to to have that, or maybe it might still come.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, I I I haven't really had anyone that I would really like be able to to speak with on a on a daily basis and give me advice for certain things, or to get started on certain things. Unfortunately, I talk a lot to my wife, and she's sometimes like, well, you really need someone else to to speak with. Because obviously, she's not in the industry, but, know. At least from a from a business point of view, it does help. Even if it's just my wife or anyone else, I would definitely recommend people to just speak to someone about any issues that you're facing, even if they might not be in the same industry.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, I would be glad to have someone else than just my wife to to speak with as well.
Speaker 2:It's funny. It's funny that it feels like that's a common thread. My wife, same thing. Like, she's like, you know, and she's a real estate like, she can only do so much of my she can only hear so much of my shits before she's like, you need to take it to somebody else. But it's funny, because like, when I talk to other people Yeah.
Speaker 2:Their partner is often the, like, recipient of this. Does your wife work in what does she have a like, does she work in any sort of, like
Speaker 3:I mean, she she works in the tech industry. She works at booking.com. So
Speaker 2:Okay. Okay.
Speaker 3:I mean, she she has a certain level of understanding for business, but obviously, you know, she's not an entrepreneur herself. She's not in the music industry. So, there's only a limit to to as much as how much you can, like, talk to another person like that. But I think it's mostly just about maybe just sharing your frustrations at the end of the day, or or, you know, any things that you're you're running into. I don't think you can really Although, like, definitely from time to time, she's given me great advice.
Speaker 3:But I Yeah. Obviously, it's not not for every question that you have that you can just turn on to her to just for advice.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Did you always wanna be an entrepreneur? Was this something that, you know, you always wanted to grow up and run your own thing?
Speaker 3:Is, I would I would say, pretty much yes. Because, like, even when I was very young, apparently, when I was in kindergarten, I already mentioned to my parents I wanted to be a manager, which was Mhmm. You know, not something you would say when you're four or five years old, probably. Right. Maybe a little bit older.
Speaker 3:So, I kinda had that that that feeling, and I've always been kind of ever since I got in touch with music, which was when I was 15 years old. I already knew that I wanted to be in that industry. And essentially, everyone in the music industry is kind of an entrepreneur in their own way. Whether you're an artist or you're just a creative person working in the industry. Like everyone has, I think, some kind of entrepreneurial spirit if they're working in such a creative industry.
Speaker 3:So I always had kind of the feeling that, you know, I I would be venturing off in entrepreneurship, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then and then what was back in when you were 15, what was the What got you into this? What was the musical experience?
Speaker 3:Well, that was a concert of deaf punk when It was literally my first concert ever, and I didn't know much of concerts, and then obviously this iconic pyramid stage came on, and and, you know, I was front row, like, just being 15 years old. So that was definitely, it had a huge impact on me. And then I just knew, like, oh, this is so awesome. I need to I need to do something in this, you know. Like, I need to do something with this.
Speaker 2:What was the first thing you did? Like So Yeah. Yeah, Just getting into it.
Speaker 3:No. Definitely. So, when I was pretty soon after that, I think I was 16 by then. We had the Dutch version of Facebook at the time, which obviously doesn't exist anymore. But through there, I got in touch with a couple of other people, and then we started a music blog to just write about like Well, it wasn't that only electronic music.
Speaker 3:There was also like a lot of At the time that you had this like electro clash, electro rock kind of like crossover kind of bands as well, which was very cool. So we're writing a lot about that kind of music, and then we we started our own website called the Cool Kids. Cool with a k though. And we were just just a bunch of kids. I mean, to be honest, I was by far the youngest person joining the team.
Speaker 3:The rest was quite older, but that that was kind of the first thing I did.
Speaker 2:So so from blogging, did that lead to meeting artists that you wanted to work more closer with?
Speaker 3:Definitely. Yes. So actually, my very first internship came through there. I was supposed to have I was scheduled to have an interview with Steve Yockey that I arranged at the time he was playing here in Amsterdam. But then, unfortunately, because of the the show, apparently, he was too tired or something.
Speaker 3:Like, he couldn't go through with the interview afterwards. And then his tour manager instead gave me his card. And he was like, well, maybe we can just do it via email or like set up some kind of call or or do it another way later on. And then I was at the time, I was like 20 years old and then I was in in university. And I really wanted to get an internship at like a very cool record label somewhere in the world.
Speaker 3:So, I reached out to a couple here in Europe, but then also reached out to the tour manager at the time of CBOB, because I knew he had his own record label called Dimag Records. And I was like, okay, well, I'll just reach out and and, you know, I don't care. Yeah. Whatever it takes, and let's see what what what I can end up with. And then, we had about like 10 calls back and forth after that, and then they were like, okay, well, come on over.
Speaker 3:So, then I went off for three months to LA for for an internship there.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. When was that? That was when you were in Like, what year was that? Would that have been?
Speaker 3:That was 02/2012. Wow. So, yeah. I was 20 years old, which was a weird period, because being 20 years old in in The Netherlands and Europe, like, you're totally allowed to drink and and be free and and do whatever you want. But then, suddenly I went to The US and live live over there, and then I was like, but wait, you're you're not allowed to drink right now.
Speaker 3:I'm like, oh, that's weird. Yeah. So, anyway, but then I I turned 21 while I was there, which was a really fun night, I have to say. Because we we used to have two club nights that Dim Mak Records was organizing at the time. One was was called Dim Mak Tuesday, so it was on a Tuesday.
Speaker 3:And the other one was at the Top Of The W in in Hollywood on the Sunday. And at one of those parties, one of those events, turned 21. So, it was like, okay, now you're allowed to drink and like be all out. So it was a fun couple months, have to say.
Speaker 2:And I'm thinking at 2012, or back in 2012, electronic music was really big in The United States. It was coming on at a really fast pace. I remember being in high school, that was the year I graduated high school, and a couple years before that's when like David Guetta really blew up over here, and then that led to just this swarm of like putting on the map what already was existing I'm sure, but just putting on the map on like a mainstream level, people like Steve Aoki. Dude I bought I remember my first year of college, so it'd have been '20, like I guess at the end of 2012 or 2013, I think that's when Steve Aoki released an album with all these features on it and I listened to that album a lot because I was like DJing at the time, so I was obsessed with electronic music. What what was Like if you think back to that time period, what was like, what was the vibe in LA?
Speaker 2:What was the scene? What was the light? Who was around you? Who was like in and out of Dim Mak? Like what Can you paint me a picture of like what it was like at that time in LA?
Speaker 3:I mean, for me it was very In a way, it was very chaotic because I That was kind of like my my my full on start of like, you know, working at a company in the industry. And then at the time, it was right going to Los Angeles, and then start over there, which, you know, it was a very buzzing scene at the time. Obviously, social media wasn't as much around as it is now. So it was really about like making connections. There were a lot of like cool big artists just just just being around at those parties especially.
Speaker 3:Or just walking into office and just say like, hey, you know, we're gonna do a photoshoot or whatever. Like, on my first day, we we did this Christmas picture, because I think it was I joined in like November or something. We had to make a a team picture for for like the Christmas cards. And then already meeting like Steve Oakey on your very first day of like landing there in Los Angeles is kind of a weird thing for like just a 20 year old kid. Right?
Speaker 3:So, yeah. It was a lot of fun. Like we had a grammar Grammy after party with like, I think it was Screwdex and Ed Sheeran and a couple others just, you know, joining for fun. David Guetta was there as well. So like, it was a lot of it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 3:It was very active. It was very very growing industry at the time. A lot of people were kind of exploring their creative creativity. Like a lot of the labels were and artists were just exploring creativity, but also just growing a lot. Right now, I
Speaker 1:think Yeah.
Speaker 3:The market is a lot more getting a bit more saturated in that way, you know. Like you've got these like 100,000 plus songs being released right now, and like, you couldn't even imagine at the time because Yeah. At the time, like, making music or making an album was definitely not as easy as it is now. Like, labels were a lot more important. Like, they they played a lot bigger role than than they do right now.
Speaker 3:So, it was a very interesting time. Yeah. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:You know, that's that's interesting because like, I remember at that time period too, a lot of those a lot of those bigger acts had their own labels. Still do, I guess. But, you know, like Skilligs had his, Oslo, and like. Mhmm. Then Diplo had his, and I just think that like, at that time, you know, hip hop, electronic music, pop music, these were big on streaming, but like, I remember, you know, country music wasn't that big, rock hadn't found a place yet, It's just like that world hadn't combined yet, whereas today Sure.
Speaker 2:Obviously, it's all it's all there now. So it's like, it just is now one of the genres versus at the time being this, you know, and SoundCloud was obviously a huge deal. But I don't even think it was that hard back then to to do something like Chart on Spotify. You know, it wasn't like a crazy thing to get in these playlists, whereas now it's so competitive, it's so Yeah. High level that it's like, you know, things have just evolved to a different place than than that was thirteen years ago, you know.
Speaker 3:Definitely. I think the industry is a lot more business orientated these days. Like, at the time, every everything was a lot about just trying things out and being creative as an also, like, as an artist. The in like, the the genres, the different genres weren't, colliding as much or, like, mixing as much as they do right now. A lot of it has to do, I think, with marketing and just the business side of things.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Beyonce doing a country album, something like that, like, just shows that there's Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of potential, but I think a lot of it has to do, honestly, also with just marketing aspect of things.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. That's what I mean, I go on I went on New Music Friday last Friday, and I was just looking through so many of the Yeah. The country collaborations that are happening between country musicians, electronic artists, hip hop artists, and I'm all for it.
Speaker 2:All the more the merrier, this is all great. But I do think you're right, like I think a lot of it does have to do with marketing. More so, I mean maybe there's a big creative push to it as well, but there probably
Speaker 3:is Of course, and a lot of
Speaker 2:the like, yeah, yes, yeah, but it's you know, but I I do, like I think that you're right though, back then, you know, it's like, you have somebody like Skrillex or even like, I'm trying to think of like some of the smaller artists who were just like making the craziest, the fucking craziest ill like computer music, know, where you're like pushing this machine into new places. It's almost like I wonder Yeah. Is that like, can that thing happen again with AI? Or is that just like, was that a moment? Or like, what is, you know, I'm not exactly sure, but
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's a good point. I think I think still at that time, especially in the the 2000 era, but also early February, I think a lot of it was about exploring the sounds of electronic still. You know, people were really like experimenting a lot. And I think a lot of Yeah.
Speaker 3:Now has already been kind of tried. So, it's almost as if people prefer now a more of like a polished sound. And I think maybe the only thing that I could foresee moving forward is that a lot more of the other genres will be made using electronic music elements or like you said, like with AI. So, like, it has a kind of electronic component to it, but you you almost wouldn't tell if it's something is a a full on country album, like, made with just a guitar or if that guitar is just coming out of Ableton or, like, some kind of plug in, basically.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Alright. Do you guys use any AI in your processes or in your systematizing of the structure of the business for like for and stuff?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, we we've started like, dabbling into that right now. I definitely feel that it's very helpful for from a business point of view for to speed up certain processes or even just supporting your creative flow as well, like your creative process. If there's something that you can't really you're thinking about, but you can't really put it on the words like, you know, kind those kinds of scenarios where I think it's very helpful to use some kind of tool that kind of can put the words that are somehow in your head, but like put it into something comprehensive for you. So I I do feel like with regards to when it comes to communication or just business efficiency for certain processes, we are trying to use AI more and more.
Speaker 3:But it should not leave out, you know, obviously the human touch or the the human element to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. That's what, you know, we I I think artists mostly beyond business people like on the on the artistry side, on the creative side, it's where like I've seen the most resistance and myself included. But like I think that artists are finding other creative ways to use AI to make stuff, or like to what you said, assist. Like even, I was talking to someone yesterday who they put into chat GTP or JIP, GP, whatever the fuck it is.
Speaker 2:They put it into chat. Yeah. They put in like the style of the song, the the type of mix that they were going for, and then a list of the different plugins that they use for mixing. And they just said like, will you give me recommendations on which plugins to use on this song to get this type of sound? And then then he took that information and went back into Pro Tools and mixed the song by himself as a human being, but like was informed by the guide of the AI and the mix turned out really good and like close to what he was aiming for.
Speaker 2:And I thought that's an interesting way to use the machine as a copilot in making decisions and in like getting to some starting point because you know, he still had to tweak everything inside the software but like. Yeah. It gave him a guide that was customized to him based on what he wanted, you know. Which I thought, I'm like, I hadn't heard that one yet. That was a good, that was cool.
Speaker 2:You know, that was like a cool thing to use that as.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I I think it's only gonna grow further from that as well, I think. As long as the creative process is not being, I would say, like compromised, I'm all for, like, using AI as a supportive tool for for your work as well, whether you're an artist or a company or or anything in between.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So how do you how do you go from Dimac how do you go from a Dimac records internship to starting Soar Music? What is like could you paint like a brief like pathway that you jump from this to this to get to this place? Like what were some of the events Yeah. That took place?
Speaker 3:So the DIMMAC internship So actually, when when I was in Los Angeles at the time, one musical genre that was really upcoming at the time over there was the the trap kind of music, the trap kind of sound. So really this combination of like the southern hip hop, you know, rap trap sound combined with like the electronic elements. So I that was something that was very cool to me to just experience that firsthand because that, you know, that wasn't active at the time in Europe at all. So after hearing that, and like hearing those artists play, like I wanted to do something with that. So I started my own events company called Round the Trap at the time, organizing like these kind of trap influenced music events, mainly doing it in in The Netherlands, but also did other shows and tours elsewhere in Europe, and even went to India, and also did a show at South by Southwest at that time.
Speaker 3:So that was going on for a good, I would say, like three, four or five years. So that was from 2013 till 02/1819 primarily or basically up until COVID. But because of those experiences with organizing the music events, I got in touch with a lot of artists, with a lot of managers, with a lot of booking agents. And then I started off doing management for a couple artists around, I think it was 2015 or so. Also started doing bookings for artists.
Speaker 3:And then I really got into all of the other elements from the industry. Because I was doing management, I needed to reach out to radio stations. I needed to reach out to publishers, to distributors, you you name it. So I started creating this kind of big database on my Google Sheet of every aspect within the industry. And that was kind of like my my guide in a way as well like handling everything in the industry.
Speaker 3:And because I got all these different experiences, I was doing these different kinds of things. I thought of starting my new company that kind of encompasses these different activities. And that's that's essentially how I got to launch Soar Music Group at the start of 2020.
Speaker 2:It's almost like through through this I think it's so cool that through your journey of doing all these different roles, meeting all these different people, it's like literally you didn't know it, but you were building you were building your eventual company because then you just take all of that
Speaker 3:Essentially, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, umbrella it into this structure, and then now here we go. Like you've got this this thing to not just serve three or four artists, but to serve, you know, potentially dozens or hundreds over the course of time. That's Yeah. It wouldn't have happened had you not done all that other shit to build.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Exactly. It's it's been a very natural way if I look back at things, you know. Like, I was I was doing one thing and that led me to do another thing. And that, you know, gaining the knowledge there led me to to do the next thing.
Speaker 3:So I'm I'm I'm very glad of having had all these experiences. And actually, I also worked at another internship at IDNT, which was got acquired at the time by SFX, which I don't think is around anymore. But it's essentially like an event production company with tons of festivals Mhmm. Around the world. Then I also got to work at Spinning Records, also in between.
Speaker 3:So like, there was a lot of different elements to it that kind of formed myself and my network and experiences that I had to make that decision in in starting Swar Music Group.
Speaker 2:And maybe those those Because you know, even like having all those experiences wouldn't necessarily give you the best mental framework of how to structure a company, build a team, all of these things. But maybe through those like, you know, several different internships where you went into a company, saw how they did everything. This gives you a framework mentally of like, okay, I know how to give all this shit that I've been accumulating. I know where to put these pieces now and how to build this structure because I don't think that that's necessarily, like plenty of people are entrepreneurial, not everybody knows how to build a company. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. It takes a lot of, for me it took a lot of experience because I already technically started doing entrepreneurship with my, with the music blog I founded when I was 16. Because we did actually start the company, we had, you know, sending out invoices to companies like Fice, who wanted us to do reports across the country, and doing cool promotions for music events or things like that. And then, I I actually, at the time, also started a web shop with that music blog, like trying to do a web, like selling vinyls and like CDs at the time, which which, you know, it didn't go that well. But it it really led me to, you know, get into that entrepreneurial mindset.
Speaker 3:And and I mean, a lot of being an about being an entrepreneur is really about like trial and error, and like you really need to learn. There's gonna be a lot of miss mistakes that you make along the way. The the core thing of it is that you need to learn from those things, from those experiences, and and put it into something positive, and and making sure that, you know, next time you go about things that you obviously don't make those certain mistakes that you did before and like, you know, create that knowledge along the way.
Speaker 1:This episode of the podcast is brought to you by the Victory Theatre. Located at 600 Main Street in Downtown Evansville, this beautiful 1,950 seat historic venue is home to Evansville's very own Philharmonic and hosts regular events from world class singer songwriters like Jason Isbell, all the way over to, you better believe it, the International Jugglers Association Festival happening next month. Right now, the Victory Theater is running some ticket offers for September 12. We got the Four Horsemen. They're a they're the Metallica tribute band.
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Speaker 1:So 60% off select tickets using the code word firework. And again, all of this information, of these events can be found at the victorytheater.com. And one last thank you to the folks at the Victory Theater and Venue Works for supporting this podcast. And if you see our posters or our little banners on the screens at the Victory Theater or the Ford Center right across the street, give us a shout. Shout it out to the concession stand lady.
Speaker 1:Say, have you heard this podcast yet? You ought to listen to it. So if you're local, enjoy your next night out in Downtown Evansville with the show at the Victory Theater. Alright. Back to the show.
Speaker 2:Is there like, when you think back to your childhood or growing up, do you think that there was any sorts of, experiences or activities or maybe, like, like, some sort of, like, something that your parents taught you or your community taught you that gave you the freedom or the like the internal drive to to to make like to try things and to fail. Because to me, I was just having to talk about this yesterday with somebody about how to me I listen to so many podcasts about entrepreneurs. I read about entrepreneurs in both in music and elsewhere. And then I've just become so much I've just become very interested in in people like you who are building companies. And and I think so I'm starting to take it for granted that people just go out and build shit.
Speaker 2:And then I talked to somebody on Sunday who has a very successful job and he said to me like, I can never do what you do. I can never go start something on my own. And I thought, why? That seems so obvious to me. He's like, well I wouldn't know what to do.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And I thought, this must start at a young age, just this idea of like trying things and failing and trying again and failing.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you If you think back, was there like a through line of anything that that kinda developed that muscle in you?
Speaker 3:I think there's two things in my case. I think one is kind of rooted in culture. I mean, me being Dutch, like the Dutch people have always been very free in in in trying things out and and and, you know, venturing off. The fact that we're very globally people, I
Speaker 2:would say.
Speaker 3:Like, I believe the The Netherlands or the Dutch are after is the best non native English speaking country in the world Mhmm. For instance. So I think I think that that's one element to it. The other thing is that from my family, with my my parents, I was the youngest kid out of four four kids, two brothers and a sister. My parents always just literally gave me all the freedom to do whatever I wanted.
Speaker 3:So for instance, very soon after going to that deaf punk concert in Amsterdam, which was like a two hour drive for me, obviously not driving at the time, but like two hour travel time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Very soon after that, I I just wanted to explore more of this this music industry. So I went off being 15 years old to like a festival in Belgium by myself, because I was supposed to meet up with a person, but then they canceled on me. Also, this person I met through the Dutch version of Facebook, so like, you know, it was all online. Mhmm. I really like a trust based system, to be honest.
Speaker 3:Anyway, but they they kinda canceled on me. So I literally just went off by myself, and my parents totally fine with it. Like, hey, if you wanna go, like, we trust you even though you're, you know, 15 years old and you wanna go to a different country for a festival, you know, so be it. So I think a lot of that sense of freedom, like, my parents definitely gave me the freedom and the trust of like, hey, we think you're you're a bright young guy, and we support you in making your own decisions. So whatever it is that you wanna do, like, we support you.
Speaker 3:So, like, I I definitely have a lot to thank them for that. And that definitely allowed me to just try different ventures by myself, even though, you know, they may not all have, like, succeeded. I was still able to, like, go out and try those different things.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. That's It's so It just feels like such a lesson as a parent. Like, I have two little ones. And, you know, it makes me think of like, just being a parent, letting your kids do things even if like Like my parents did the same thing. Like they let me build like race tracks in the yard.
Speaker 2:They let me like, you know, I had a mowing business when I was a kid and like all these things that at the time it's like It was probably more inconvenient that they had to drive me to go mow this person's yard twenty you know, twenty minutes away to make $20. But like it taught me the value of doing your own, you know, working for yourself, doing your own thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I can see how that, you know, that freedom from your parents, just that like permission basically to go for it, even if they didn't necessarily have anything to do with it, it's just like the the permission is such an important ingredient for long term doing that thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. I mean, they they they don't really know much about the music industry. Like, they they're definitely not from like a musical background or anything like that. None of my family is, to be honest. So their idea was like, well, we don't know much about this, but if this is what you wanna do, then we're all for it and we support you.
Speaker 2:And there's probably something else, like I'm the youngest of three kids, and I think that there must be something about, as you were talking about, I was thinking, there must be something about being the last child too, where they've already done it, they've already done three other kids before you, they've already raised three other kids. Mhmm. With you, it's like, you're along for like, okay, what you know, we've we've done all like, or you know, like you work through all that as a parent, where you get to the last one, you're like, you're along for the ride. Then whatever you wanna do beyond that, hey, it's all for it,
Speaker 3:you know? Yeah. That's cool.
Speaker 2:Are you from a small town? Or a big big bigger town?
Speaker 3:Not really. I mean, I grew up in The Hague, which is the third city in the country. I mean Third biggest. You know, compare comparing to the The US, obviously, it's not a huge huge city or anything like that. It has like, I think, like five, six hundred thousand people living in it.
Speaker 3:But obviously, it's not a it's not a small town at all. So it definitely gave me the opportunity to, you know, go out to music venues and like clubs and things like that. But to be honest, when I was this young already, like after, you know, experiencing the music industry, I already went out across the country as well. I even borrowed my friend's ID. Or like like, you have you have this like public transport card that you can use as a student to travel for free.
Speaker 3:And like, whenever he wasn't going out, or like, wasn't traveling, I was just using that, and also using that to kind of like ID myself at the time, and like, get into clubs. So, I was just going into clubs when I was like 16 years old, where normally you would have to be 18 plus to, you know, get in, but Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was a lot of fun and it was a great sense of discovery or like discovering not only just myself, but just just everything in general, you know?
Speaker 2:Is that something that drives your Like, would you say, like curiosity or like that sense of discovering new things or growing in like like figuring stuff out? Does that keep you like building this company that you're doing now and keep you this through line through this journey of yours? Is that sense of finding things out a big part of this?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I I think I would call it like being curious or like, you know, I think it's important to stay curious and I I really cherish innovation and like, you know, discovery like you mentioned. So I think it's a very important element to it because otherwise, if you don't have that part if that part is missing for you as an entrepreneur, then you kind of get into like this still situation where, you know, you're just doing your your rounds and your things, and I feel like, yeah, that that's definitely something that I wouldn't want to see with myself happening because whenever that day would come, I I would probably probably stop as an being an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or move on to whatever else has your curiosity. Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Whatever that Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 2:So before we wrap, I'm I'm curious to like, you know, through your through this whole adventure of yours, you've you've you've experienced, you know, over a decade of the music world and today, like today you run a company that you know, from my understanding operates mostly in the digital space, doing digital you know, digital campaigns across different areas. How do you view I remember early on talking to you, shit, it might have been a year ago already about like, you know, you know, if we're if we're if we're investing in something like like independent playlisting, if we're investing in in building our social followings, you know, you you talked about how like the value of it, the value of these things is part of like building a project. How do you, from your perspective, and you look at like an artist developing their project, not just starting, but you know, kind of like they've got good music, they're really like working on developing a career, a project as an artist. How do you see how all those pieces work together? Like the importance of digital versus the importance of touring versus the importance of content.
Speaker 2:How do you sort of frame those things when you're thinking of building a valuable company?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I I I think just just looking from an artist point of view, I think those two sides of like the digital and the physical aspect should definitely be kind of like complementing each other. It's almost like when we're talking about the use of AI, like it should not take over your whole life or like all of the processes that you do, but it should really just play a a supportive role. So, you know Yeah. The example that you mentioned of this producer who used ChatGPT to give them ideas of like like how to to go about things.
Speaker 3:I I kind of view it in that way as well, like what we currently do with the company, like the digital aspects, the digital campaigns that we run, like, it should not be the be all, end all of things. Just because you've, you know, you're growing your fall your your followers online, you know, you should be able to try and convert those as well into, like, actual physical fans, you know, going out to your shows, buying your merch, you know, like, it's it's a great support, a supportive way to to go about that. And it's a great kind of like step up. But you should really, as a as an artist or label, also focus or or have an idea about, okay, how are we gonna kind of use the digital aspect, but then also to reach those goals in in the physical world being, you know, touring or or radio appearances or, you know, just getting actual fans to come out and see you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's a you know, it's you're right because I think that I've tried both personally as somebody, not just as an artist, but as somebody building a record label that's turned into a management company slash artist development company. Mhmm. It's like you're just focusing on things in the real world led led certain projects to a, just to like stagnation. Like you couldn't break through certain levels, but then only focusing on the digital world has left certain projects missing a a connection to real people and to fans who support them and who pay for merch and who go to shows.
Speaker 2:And it really is I I I You're right. It's like this relationship that is probably unique to every single project and every single artist and every single location even, you know. But it's like Yeah. You can't deny that you know, going to a show and having a great show with with people who are interested is gonna convert this like really strong relationship. But you also can't deny that that that having something go viral and and and you know, having a song go viral, not aiming for that even necessarily, but having something go viral.
Speaker 2:It just cuts through cuts through so much noise, lifts you to a place. But it's like man, if you could have those two things in coexistence constantly going, feels like that's kinda like the modern way of developing a career is like intertwining these two worlds that are mostly, you know, obviously the physical world is established, but like it's like the digital world is sort of becoming established to some degree. Now how do these things relation or work in relation to each other for the benefit of artists, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Definitely. I think a lot of times, recently what we've been talking about internally is about building this kind of structure or foundation as an artist or label to make sure that, you know, whenever you suddenly, let's say, go viral or get get, like, critical acclaim online, you have this structure and foundation in place that you can just use that as like a platform to take off with. Because if you don't really have a proper structure or foundation in place of like your branding as an artist and maybe, you know, your vision of what you wanna do for shows or or whatever Yeah. And you suddenly just go viral from one day to the other, then, you know, that going viral is not just that that's not it.
Speaker 3:Right? Like, going viral is is a means to a way in that sense, where you you still have your end goal, and you need to reach your end goal. Because if your if your end goal is just to go viral, then it's great. You got viral, and then that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. It's it's like And I think that this is repeated, like thinking back to, you know, let's go back a hundred years or eighty years where the recorded music industry is just getting going. People would become humongous stars, but they didn't know how to make a career out of it in terms of themselves, right? They'd be at the hands of a powerful manager or a powerful record label that's all just forming.
Speaker 2:But then as you get into the seventies, the eighties where certain managers at least would recognize, like I remember reading about Neil Young and Joni Mitchell's what was his name? Elliot Elliot something. I forget. But he he was their manager who believed in artist development that was like, he wants to have three or four albums released before the artist becomes mainstream because he's like those three or four albums give us a foundation of like, yeah, the artist's brand, the artist's following, live shows, a network. Now, if it goes big, good.
Speaker 2:We have a we have a solid foundation, but if it goes big too early, the fucking thing implodes, know. Like what goes up comes back down, and so Yeah. It almost feels like we're just at that time again in history where like we really can like look around at like what's the most important and useful things to to build this foundation in in in connection with something that that can reach a bigger platform. It's not one's better than the other, it's just like these things have to work in relation for for long term sustainable success.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Exactly. Think even though the playing field is different now, I think the core elements are are still the same. So, yeah.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Everybody Else podcast with Jelmer Rotevil of Soar Music. Visit soarmusicgroup.com to see his company and all of their offerings. We've used them for over a year now on a number of different services, PR, editorial pitching, independent playlist pitching, and they've been they've been very great to work with. So thank you again for listening to this show. If you if you like it, I mean, it's, you know, redundant to say, but we could use all the support that we could get.
Speaker 1:Right? We're still young. This is still the early days. This is episode five. So, you know, the extra the extra minute or so that that that it would take to send this show to a friend or to, share it on your story, tag us, anything to help spread the word would be greatly appreciated.
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Speaker 1:It's a service that I've been getting I've been receiving from others, and it's a service now that I wanna pass forward as an addition to Spodcast and the record label that I run Wally Opus. So please check it out and schedule a free consultation if you feel so inclined. We'll see you next time.