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Your guided tour of the world of growth, performance marketing, customer acquisition, paid media, and affiliate marketing.
We talk with industry experts and discuss experiments and their learnings in growth, marketing, and life.
Time to nerd out, check your biases at the door, and have some fun talking about data-driven growth and lessons learned!
Welcome to another edition of the Always Be Testing podcast with your
host, Ty De Grange. Get a guided tour of the world of growth, performance
marketing, customer acquisition, paid media, and affiliate marketing.
We talk with industry experts and discuss experiments and their learnings in growth,
marketing, and life. Time to nerd out, check your biases at the door, and
have some fun talking about data driven growth and lessons learned.
Welcome to the Always Be Testing podcast. I'm your host, Ty DeGrange, and I'm
super stoked to have Kenice Murphy join us today. What's up, Kenice?
Hey, Ty. Thanks for having me on, and I hope your day is going well.
It is. It's a Friday. It's sunny in in Austin,
Texas. Go figure. A little hot, but ready for the Labor Day weekend. It's gonna be good.
I bet. You're a baseball fan, aren't you? I am. Alright. Well, just
a a fun fact. I was at the, Giants game here in San Francisco
this week on Tuesday night, oh, where the pitcher carried a no hitter into the bottom of
the ninth inning only to have it broken up with two with with one
out left to go. Such as life. But it was really, really wild and really
cool to be there and get to experience that and in the ballpark. And it's just,
something you don't get every day. And it's funny because, it just always reminds me of the
saying, you can't predict baseball. And that's a pretty good segue into what we're gonna be talking about
today. Right? So, like, with programmatic and things like that.
Well, I I saw what you did there. Just just brought it all the way through. Yeah. To be in
a ballpark when there's anything close remotely close to a no hitter I mean,
what? Is there maybe average, what, two or three a year at most?
Right? Maybe one. Some years some years maybe have, like you're talking, like, counted on your
hand at best. Right? Yeah. It's, it's funny because I kept I kept saying to the person I was with, I
kept saying, pitcher's kinda up there in age, and he's throwing a lot of pitches. What's going on? And he
would, like, make a scowl at me and then point to the scoreboard and keep reminding
me that that, like, you know, there's a no hitter going on, but we can never talk about a no hitter
while it's going on. That ruins everything. But then in the ninth inning, all the all the fans
rose to their feet and then two outs and then just, you know, Gabe gave up
that hit. But it was still something really special. So glad I was there. I love it. I I
tuned in on audio and and got to see the the sad disruption of the no hit of
the no hitter, I'll admit, from from Texas later in the evening. And, I was
I was sad, but also impressed that he was able to take it through, get the shutout. When the guy, like,
looked at you and gave you the scout, it reminded me of, there's an old saying, baseball is like
church. Many attend, but few understand. It's a good segue into our
conversation today. Many try to do programmatic if you understand it. But, yeah, baseball's
near and dear, I think, for for us. Your Orioles are doing well also, so kudos.
What's the deal? Why? Why are they doing well? Well, I think when you're Yeah. When you're
chronically bad for twenty years, eventually, you're gonna string together a decent run of draft
picks. And, they've done that, and it's really great to see them succeed. But it's also
sad because they are their ownership group is just not they
are not baseball people, and they do not understand that they are toying with people's
emotions and what that means to to the proud people of Baltimore. So
so I wish them lots of luck, but, you know, I'm always I'm always worried that, you know, it's
fleeting. Right? Yeah. Maybe one day, we'll we'll pull a a
dream and, pull together a ragtag group to, bring the team to the
people and make it and make a movie out of it like, Ryan Reynolds. Right. Exactly. One,
let's save that money. Yeah. And put our ducats and Bitcoins together to see what we can come up with
here. We'll need a lot of programmatic to do that. So with that,
Kenis is amazing guy, amazing friend, knows the sport of baseball,
knows about programmatic. He's been featured at such companies as AdBright,
Yahoo, Converseent, and, a little shop called Google. Maybe you've heard of them.
But maybe, Kanise, you can help us. The audience, I'm sure some of them don't know
what programmatic advertising exactly means, and maybe you could help kind of just
break down some of the some of that. What is it? Yeah. So what programmatic
advertising does is make good on the promise of buying
the right person with the right message at the right time.
And if you think about how we used to do marketing, if I was Rolex and
I wanted to reach my demographic, my best bet was to was
to buy an ad in the finance section of the Wall Street Journal, and there was
a pretty good chance I was gonna be hitting my target demographic. What
programmatic has done to expand on that is take that concept and say, okay,
send a message, send an ad to people who actually visited my site, who have expressed an
interest in my site, or as we think about some of the more predictive things that
have happened over the last couple of years, Market to people who I
think would be interested in Rolex watches.
Mhmm. So the industry has come a long way in terms of the, you know, the
technical capabilities to make this possible. A lot of that is obviously thanks to
computers and our ability to understand and share very minute little
pieces of information very quickly before a page loads so that, when a person
visit us visits a certain site, ideally, they can see a message that is
somewhat relevant to them. That's awesome. That's super helpful. What are the kind of
brands that are kind of tapping into this well in your opinion and
maybe some that that maybe aren't but but should be. I'm curious to kind of get a sense of,
like, who are the players in in in the space and maybe some of the other parts of the ecosystem
Yeah. That people might find interesting. Sure. So, so, again, I think there's there's lots of
different flavors of of marketing and programmatic, and the space
has evolved immensely. Right? Primarily, the the initial space was about
remarketing. Right? And that's just the idea. If someone visited my site, there's a pretty good chance if they came
here or they got to a certain point on my site, I want to show them that message again and
again and again because there's a very strong indicator based on fact that they were at a
certain point on my site that they are close to or very interested in buying
something. That has evolved. And with that, you see lots more marketers
of all ilks. Right? So you've got your your legacy consumer brands who've
been around for, you know, a hundred years. You've got the emerging
direct to consumer space who is extremely digitally savvy. Mhmm.
And it's a you'll also think of programmatic as something that you can use
to expand on your existing if you're doing lots of search, if you're
doing lots of specific Yep. I call it, big destination marketing. So
if you're buying lots on YouTube, if you're buying lots on Facebook or TikTok, Instagram,
etcetera, I I think we're at the point now where everyone universally recognizes
that you kinda have to be in this space, and you can't ignore it because, again, there
have been so many advances that it's, that there's something there for everyone
Yep. Or every type of marketer regardless of where they happen to be in in
their funnel in terms of the types of users they're trying to market to. Right? So it used to be a
very lower funnel marketer experience, and that has since broadened and will continue
to broaden to Yeah. Going up the funnel, so to speak. Yeah. For sure. And it reminds
me of other other performance marketing levers and channels that talk about that too.
So with with programmatic and and the term display marketing sometimes,
right, is there kind of a misconception? Or what do you say to people that might say, like, well, it's just
just banner ads or something like that? Is is that even a misconception? I think one
of the things that we always talk about click rates, things like that, and it it's funny. Yep. You
talk to people, and it's like, oh, I never click on those ads, which but it's like, you've clicked you've clicked
on things before. We've all clicked on things. A hundred do it all the time, clothing
stuff, lounge wear. Right? Comfort is key As you do.
These days. So there's definitely something there for everyone. Yep.
If it's it's there's lots of different flavors to it, whether you're a mobile marketer first.
Yeah. Right? Whether it's an app play. Right? Yeah. It's a programmatic opportunity there.
Whether you are you know, it it it goes just so much beyond, display banners. And if you
think about some of the other evolutions that are taking in the space, like things like AI and how they have become
that technology has become extremely powerful in packaging up
the message and doing the different permutations of what seems to work and resonate
with with consumers versus, Mhmm. Versus the messages that don't. You're seeing
lots of things there. So I think it's it's a matter of what type of marketer are you, how are you
wielding it, and then where do you need to be because there's something there for everyone. And, you know, it goes
into video, and we're seeing this massive expansion into into
CTV, which is pretty much just call it TV at this point. Right? Because Yeah. You know, with the
with the emergence of the smart TV, it's completely upended the traditional models
of how Yeah. Legacy TV buying used to work. So Yeah. Programmatic
has a all ten fingers and all ten toes deep in the pie of digital marketing, and
there's probably something there for everyone. Yeah. That's a valid point. I think that's
fair. What are some of the outcomes that brands and advertisers get out of,
like, programmatic as opposed to maybe if we think about paid search as a
separate entity for this conversation, maybe paid social as a separate entity for this conversation,
maybe like partnerships influencers separately. I know those worlds are converging and those
silos are breaking down a little bit more to your point. But for maybe that section of a
brand that's kind of categorizing, you know, five or six key channels for their brand
and their performance marketing, What are some of the results that you've
seen in programmatic maybe versus some of these other performance marketing
levers? What types of outcomes do you kinda see possible from from some of
this stuff? Yeah. That's a great, great question that can go in a lot of
different directions. And I'll start with this. So one of the things that we are
constantly talking about is like, okay, what is your expectation? Right? So if you are a
traditional search marketer and you are trying to dip a toe into display, you are probably
not going to see the exact same intent driven performance that you'll
see with a channel like search. But that doesn't mean there's not a lot of value there. Right?
Because at some point, you will reach the point of not diminishing, but it's
just you you can only get so much out of that channel at a certain point. So
you need to be thinking about what, Mhmm. About what other channels you can you can
deploy. I think what we're also talking about with outcomes is that that is really
going to be a soul searching conversation you need to have with your customer to go
back to and align those expectations Totally. And understand exactly what you
what is your core thing. Right? And this is where we go kinda go back to the funnel. You know, if we're really
focused on just bottom line cost per install or acquisition
type outcomes, you're gonna wanna have a really good balance of understanding what channels are working
the best for you and then what are the complementary strategies that we are seeing. Mhmm.
One of the things I'd add on to that is that with all of the recent changes,
with regulatory changes, and some of the different browser changes that are taking
place, there is Yep. A lot less data to be able
to kind of link together to say, hey. This event, this person clicked on this
ad, and then this person went to the checkout page and bought x item.
So what we're seeing is less ability to understand exactly what
drove a specific transaction. And what that's requiring is people to
really get into and lean into, experimentation and to think
about an outcome for one channel might look a little bit different for an out and of than an
outcome for another channel. You're seeing that a lot as as marketers kind of begin to rethink what
they need to do to change in terms of how the
landscape around us is changing. And it's not gonna stop changing. Right? We're gonna see more
regulatory. We are going to see more. Chrome is set to deprecate
third party cookies in the not too distant future, and that looks like it's probably going to
happen, at some point next year. And that's gonna continue to change
the types of outcomes that marketers can rely on in terms of how they're reporting back on
what's driving their business. Yeah. No. I love that. And it'll be interesting
to see who responds to that and who's prepared for that. What are some of
the counsel that you're seeing out there that you think is helpful for for
brands to be prepared for that coming change, to be prepared for that privacy
wave that you're talking about with browser changes and limits to the visibility
of what we can, you know, what's available for retargeting and for other other,
data data visibility. What are some of the best practices or the coaching that you're seeing that
you that kinda resonates with you, or how are you counseling clients on it? So I think one of
the things is, like, know your baselines today. Right? What are
you seeing today? So the the thing that I would say on top of that is, like, you've already been
impacted. Privacy browser changes have already impacted your business, especially if you're a a
global customer and you operate within the the European economic area. Right? So you've already
seen this. But, like, what is your baseline today? Because, you still have lots and lots of information
which you can work with. Right? But what but you might not have that in the
future. So if you understand what your baseline is today, you can then begin to think about what the gaps are.
You still have to grow your business. You still have to acquire new customers. You still have to reduce the
churn of new customers Mhmm. And things like that. So it's always kinda starting
with, like, establishing that baseline, where are you? And then, alright, what are the levers
available to me to fill in the gaps? And, you know, there's not going to be a
single magic answer. There's not going to be a single magic you know, the old silver bullet
that's gonna be like, this this kinda solves everything. That's not going to happen. It will be Yeah.
A combination of things. And so this is where the experimentation stuff
really, really, really kinda lean kinda becomes a a a a critical lever to lean
on. And Mhmm. The marketers that build in a culture of
experimentation will have the best outcomes and will be able
to not only manage through some of the data loss that we see, but also
thrive in in a new world order. So So they should always be testing. Is that what you're
trying to say? Yeah. For lack of a better Little plug. Where are we today? And then what and then
what can we spin up? And I think this is just like this this mindset, right, is is really
at the core of a lot of the education that I think we're seeing or that we're trying to
do and then I do in my day to day. It's like, what do you, you know, what are you trying to achieve? It's the
a lot of the the the old questions of what are you trying to achieve? Where does your
information live now? Yeah. And then where are you trying to get it to so that you can be
more effective with it? And then where are the gaps along the way? And if we can
identify those things, we're halfway there. And then what type of culture of experimentation
do I need to embrace, you know, in order to to thrive in this
world? Love it. That's a good point. And my hypothesis is
there's, like, a ton of brands, surprisingly, that are not yet adopting
the level of experimentation culture that they need to to compete.
Is that do you agree? Do you see that? One thousand percent. I mean, again, you have
different marketers at different stages. Right? Some are very nascent. And I think a lot of it
depends on kind of, like, what are the different frameworks. Right? And and how do they build up practices
within their organizations? And this is something that you've this is something that we've seen. The marketing
people historically have been very, very separated, very siloed from a lot of
the IT people. Right? Like, the analytics people. And, like, the analytics people can
be very salty when they have to share information because that is a segment of the business that they control. That
is something that's important to them. And so when we see companies kinda
break down those silos and begin to think more holistically about
about kind of pulling in all of the different pieces of information that are available to them and
bring those to bear and make those work effectively even if they're just thinking
about what needs to happen to make that happen. Right? That's a step in the right direction.
Yeah. And I think, you know, there's that old saying about everybody thinks everybody else is doing it. Everybody thinks they're
doing it better than them. Literally, no one knows what they're doing. I mean, I think, you know, that can be said here
as well. There's lots of people lots of different marketers on lot lots of different
rungs of the journey. But has anyone has anyone marketer mastered it or or any
one digital agency completely figured it out? No. No. Long way to
go. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Well said. Of those that you're counseling
and not necessarily, you know, naming names now, but are there examples
out there that you see in the programmatic ads world where you're like, tip of the
cap, sir. Like, that's a phenomenal execution. That's a great way to think about
testing. That's a great way to think about creative. Is there any anyone in
particular that you kinda look to and say, okay. They seem to be on the right track? Yeah. I'd
say one of the things that we see that's just that that can be very valuable is
to organize as much of your stuff. That can mean a lot of different things, but
organize your business practices in as many places as possible. So
in many ways, this can mean marketing consolidation. When and where you can buy certain channels
in through specific platforms, that tends to be a good a good practice. Mhmm.
Recognizing that your the the the world has kind of expanded and narrowed
all at once. You have the large open web, and that is still a very valuable channel. And
then you have kind of again, you have our our unique butterflies, the YouTubes, the
TikToks, the Instagrams, which are absolutely must market channels for most
marketers. So what we also see too is the promise of prog programmatic gives
you this ability to buy lots of different channels, but really do it in a
efficient way. We haven't even talked about, like, acronyms and stuff like that, but,
you've got all of these different types of inventory, be it CTV, be it
video, be it traditional display, be it even native and text
and all kinds of different display types. Mhmm. Being able to buy those in
one place can create a lot of value and a lot of efficiency, and then it's really incumbent
upon the person doing that buying just to go and look and see, well, okay, what's working, what's
not. Right? What channels need to be expanded into? Where should we be moving our
investment around? Mhmm. And this is where programmatic, again, that it makes good on this promise
of a lot of predictive capability that lets you that lets you spend money
dynamically based on what's working the best. So you don't have to say, okay, five
grand for search, five grand for display, five grand for video. Let's see what happens
at the end. You get the ability to kind of move Yep. Give it the ability to to move dynamically,
and spend based on where you're seeing performance. And, again, that goes back to understanding your goals.
Out of curiosity for people maybe not in the inside baseball world a bit, How often
are these changes being made? You kind of alluded to, like, hey. You got a five k tranche that's being
allocated here and there, and we're gonna run it till the end of the week to see what's going on. But it sounds like
with programmatic, these decisions are make happening much faster than weekly, much
faster than daily. Can you elaborate on the speed at which some of those decisions are being made?
Yeah. It's fast. So I think if there is a call that happens to
a someone who's selling a piece of inventory and the bidding engine is
decide deciding whether or not they're gonna buy that impression, and they need to do that within a hundred millisecond.
So a lot happens in a hundred lot lot happens in a hundred milliseconds. I'm trying to think of, like, some,
the blink of an eye, but it's even faster than that. So if you think about all these things that are
happening, theoretically, what that does is free up time for you to go
and theoretically experiment more, right, or or understand Mhmm. Or spend a lot more time
doing analysis and not kind of be back and forth
manually adjusting the knobs and levers. Yes. Their optimization is absolutely
key. Mhmm. But, again, this is one of the one of the the primary benefits of programmatic is that it
does a lot of the decisioning, especially around bidding Yeah. And especially around kind
of different flavors of audience targeting. You can do that in a much more streamlined way and have lots of
baked in experiments as you know, right off the bat. That's awesome. And maybe
just finishing that thought around, you know, the speed is clearly there. It gives you
more insights. It gives you more chance to experiment across a number of different variables.
Maybe it what's an example of, like, an experiment that you're just really
a fan of from a from a programmatic view. It doesn't have to be, like, all the
mini you know, it doesn't have to be every variable, but what's, like, a what's one that you just think is,
like, if you're doing that, you're doing the right thing, and you're probably gonna get a good
learning out of that experiment if you're x y z brand trying to grow and and
scale programmatic. One of the things that's emerged relatively recently
is, this idea of predictive modeling. So this is
let's say, I am an insurance marketer. Let's say I'm a I'm a cell phone marketer. Right? And
somebody's on their plan. Yep. They have been very smart marketers for a long
time. And one of the things that they're paying a lot more attention to is what is the likelihood that one of
my customers is going to churn? No one's out there waving their hand being like, I'm done.
I'm done. That is not a signal that that these types of marketers can easily capture.
But with all the different data points that exist around that entire And if you
think about the volume and the scale that's available, we've seen some interesting things with,
with kind of the building churn models and things like that. But the thing that I wanna Love
that. Highlight there is that the barrier to entry to execute these things has
come way down over the last few years. Right? And so what you're
seeing is a lot more of these kind of data science practices be built up right
alongside of your existing kinda go to market Love it. Marketing
strategies. That's really cool. Yeah. It just seems like the
continued democratization of all out of the attribution, lift studies,
incrementality conversations. We've had some really good conversations on this spot about it. It sounds like
you're you're observing that in a big way. Yeah. And I'd say the the thing that I would close with
there is is what is the when you go back to kind of I mentioned baselines in the
beginning, think long term. Right? What we're trying to do is create a relationship with
the product and the consumer in a lot of ways. So what is the long term
value, the lifetime value of that relationship? And that varies immensely
from product to product. Some things are short consideration. Some things are longer consideration.
But you're seeing this a lot more where where brands are trying to create much more of a one
to one relationship and saying look we are going to be good stewards of your data We are going
to be responsible marketers, and we value this relationship. And in
exchange, let us know what you like, and we'll try to deliver
experiences that are meaningful to you meaningful to you as a as a consumer.
That's awesome. That's super helpful. Yeah. And maybe switching gears a little bit, we've talked a ton
about your observations and programmatic experiments and kind of delving more into
the life stuff. So you've had an awesome career in various great companies in the programmatic
space. Maybe I think folks would love to hear just some of your
observations, especially folks that are newer in their career in digital and performance marketing. What
are maybe some of the learnings and experiments of from your career perspective for Kinesis, if
you're navigating some very interesting and great roles. What what do you got for
us? Yeah. So, I mean, hopefully, at one point, I'll figure out kinda what I wanna be
when I grow up. Right? I think that's something that all of us kinda think about every single
day. Mhmm. I think there's lots of people who have a much better idea of what they want to
what they wanna be. I was not one of those people. And when I started in, we'll
call it advertising, I sold print advertising. And this was I
did that up until around two thousand four. And what I saw on that was
kind of the writing on the wall that, like, the digital advertising revolution
was going to was going to change the print world very much, and it absolutely did,
especially in the newspaper world, which is where I was. And that's kind of what kept me
close to this. I was like, okay, if that's the way it's headed, this is where I should you know, since I still don't
have any idea what I wanna do with my life, this is where I should I should probably stick with this because I have a basic
idea. And then, again, that change of of of this
kind of legacy analog print experience to the digital experience where, you
know, this beautiful promise of accountability. How many impressions did somebody see?
How many clicks did, did the campaign get? And, eventually, once we
started tracking conversions and things like that, you had all of this beautiful accountable
information. So much data. So much data. So many options. And it's
exploded, from there. That's cool. It's been quite a journey.
And the I'd say the one thing that I that I do enjoy about this space
is the fact that it is constantly changing. Right? The thing that you are doing one day
is not the neck or, you know, you're not doing that the next. We've seen these monumental shifts
Mhmm. Happen. Right? We've seen, we've seen this happen with, you know, the
rise of the Internet. Oh, great. The world's information is instantly accessible. Right? Then
along came the phone, and it's like, wait a minute. Yeah. World's information can be stored in my pocket, and I can take
it anywhere I want. And, oh, by the way, I can talk to anybody I want anywhere. And I think now we're
kinda entering one of these other big fundamental seismic shifts with, with
the arrival of, generative AI. And, you know, AI has been
around for a long time in lots of different flavors, but you're you know, we're seeing an entirely
new world with a lot of interesting possibilities. So we see a lot of
this applied in the advertising world, at least through predictive AI, and then we'll see how
generative AI kinda changes this down the line. So really interesting time to be
close to this. Yeah. That's, like, amazing. I mean, do do you think is
is AI kind of the answer for the so many questions I have and directions, but
is AI the answer for the lack of signal we're getting through privacy? So is
AI the step in and and enables marketers to see enough and be
predictive without giving the secret sauce away? I think one of the things,
you know, again, going back to those baselines, understanding what assets we have
access to, being smart about the change management required to make
sure we've got all of our ducks in a row from a marketer point of
view as possible. That gives you that kind of that seed, that baseline. Right?
And then from that, this is where the world is going to have to lean into kind of more of a more
of a a modeled future. Right? And understand, okay. What does we'll need to have
modeling to fill some of the conversion gaps? And, again, I think there'll be
different flavors of that, And I think it's important to understand again, this is why it's really important to
experiment now, understand kind of where you are now and then what those gaps actually look
like and how much do I need to rely on modeling in the future. And
most people will tell you, you know, the better the garbage in, garbage out. Right? The better
the source data, the better the model and the more reliable it can be. So I think
many marketers understand this, and they are really working on, you know, rewards like hygiene and
fidelity and things like that in terms of how they manage manage their
information and then how they're able to kind of bring it to bear. But nailed it with the modeling
thing. Like, it's it's here, and it's here to stay. Yeah. I love it. You know, that
transition you talked about back when you were working in print the old days, you
know, I I did a stint there too before getting into digital with you
back in the day. And do you think that that transition from print to digital
is gonna be is AI just massively bigger? Do you think it's
similar? Do you think what are your thoughts? I think in the terms of the shift, it's going to be
massive. I mean, you know, I don't know if you know if they're in Austin yet, but we have the
autonomous cars driving all over San Francisco. It's quite a thing.
You know? There's lots of people saying, hey. Some of these aren't so safe. We're kind of worried. You have people that
are, you know, lining up. All of them have wait lists in terms of people that want to sign up
for these services. So you're seeing already the ways that these
things are impacting our world in a very real and tangible
way. I think the I think the one thing that I would emphasize is that I am
not ever probably going to be a Python or c plus plus
engineering whiz. Mhmm. And so I can't just go use
AI to turn me into, you know, a master engineer. But what I can
do Mhmm. Is use it to to simplify and speed up some of
the day to day tasks that I'm doing. And, I mean, that can be as basic as help me
construct this email. Help me get meeting notes out and order
them in the different priorities. All kinds of different stuff you can I mean, that's, like, the basic
kind of administrative stuff that goes into a lot of things? But it's about making the
things that you can already do, do them better, and do them faster. And I think we'll continue to see some
of these really big seismic shifts. And I think, also, there's still a tremendously long way to
go. I think there's a lot of hype right now, and I think it's it's some of it is warranted,
but it Yeah. Takes a while to get there. Reminds me of the beginnings of the Internet,
which we we sort of witnessed in our senior age and,
not all of it. But, you know, the winners that were thought to be winners initially did not shake out that
way, which you and I know all too well. That, I imagine, will play out with AI.
Yeah. Yeah. But there are winners. There's always winners. Right? And so, you know, we see Always.
We see the different we see the different flavors of that. And, you know, we have the,
you know, we have the benefit of being able to go back and look at that. It's kinda hard. Right? Going back to the no hitter
thing that we are talking about. Sometimes when you're in the moment, you're like, there's a lot going on here, but I'm still just
watching a baseball game. You don't realize, you know, what the gravity of a thing is because
you're so deeply immersed in it. So it's good to be aware of, but I certainly
wouldn't walk around talking about how it's gonna it's here and it's completely landed. There's a long
way to go with, with how that plays out. Yeah. Valid. Just look at the results
sometimes when you when you test out the, prompts in chat GPT or
BARD. They're not always gonna give you the right answer. You gotta kinda edit, review,
improve, and, hope you know, we're we're not replaced just yet.
There's a lot of refinement that that takes place for sure. So yeah. And I think you actually just said
something that's really that comes up a lot. I just don't see I don't see a scenario. Yes. There
will be some tasks and some jobs that will be automated out, and I
that's another function of how the world operates. But I don't
see this scenario where as of somebody who works in the marketing world, AI
comes and takes my job. I look at it as something that is a companion that helps me actually do things
better. And, but I still need to manage that as the as
the owner of that program. Love it. Can't let the machines run the entire operation.
No way. Yeah. And really important question I think a lot of people are curious about.
Are the Ravens going to break the Niners' hearts yet again in the Super
Bowl this year? I hope so. But it's,
I really hope so. Oh, I I gotta. But football's hard.
A lot of injuries, a lot of lot of unknown unknowns. You know?
So it's, it's Strikes and gutters. And any given Sunday, you know, all
your tropes Ups and downs. Hold true. I would love to see it. I'm really excited about Lamar Jackson. I think they've got
an interesting offensive core. I think their defense is, okay. I
worry about their ability to pressure the quarterback, which I feel like is just
an absolute must have if you're gonna succeed in the modern NFL game.
But I'm, I'm forever optimistic, but I'm not, I'm
not I'm not holding my breath on any magic happening. I'll be cautiously optimistic.
I like that. Who are you drafting? Who are you avoiding? Who's on your hot list? Oh, man. So
fantasy base fantasy football. I don't even know what fantasy baseball yet, which, you
know, I don't know if I should talk about that publicly. But, Let's maybe save that for
another episode. Right. A lot of what I've learned about, the
lessons of digital advertising and baseball go hand in hand. You generate lots and
lots of data. You get lots of points to look at, and I'm not the one crunching the data.
I'm just making decisions with the information that I have. And based on that,
I, you know, I'm taking running backs early, and I'm taking running backs from
wide receivers and quarterbacks late. That has been a winning strategy for many
years, and, it's all about staying alive. Serve you well. Staying alive in the survivor pool.
That's the I think that's the most fun because that's every week, it's just, win and
move on or lose and go home. Yeah. Every week's a Super Bowl and a Survivor Bowl.
You know, that's a lessons in life there too. You know?
So you're a dad. You got two adorable boys. I'm I'm a little bit newer to the dad game.
What's your secret? How do you, how do you stay sane and and manage it all, Canis?
Let's see. Lots of, veggies, earplugs when I sleep.
Veggies for you? Veggies for the kids? What? For me. For me. You know? So
k. Sleep is your, you know, sleep is your friend. I probably need to increase my veggie intake.
Doesn't doesn't hurt to do that too. Sleep is the thing. And I think one of the things I would say is,
so balancing the work. Right? So parenting equity is something that I care a
lot about. And, dads have better lives when they share more
of the load or, you know, anybody who's in a caregiver situation when you can
when you are able to kinda share the different responsibilities and things like that, I think it
it makes for a a more functioning household. And, you know, I think one
of the things too is, like, let the kids have some fun. We are not those dogmatic
parents who tell them you'd spend so much time on screens. Screens are a part of our
world. Right? So you gotta choose your gotta choose your battles and would seem high and
mighty. Yeah. Right? We all have flashbacks to to parents yelling at us about being on the telephone. Right? But,
like, technology is there. They should master it. Too close to the television. Right. That's a
whole different that is bad parenting. Right? You should not be so close to the to the thing that,
yes. That Damn it. That will that will have long long term negative impacts
for sure. Kenice Murphy, great, great human,
always there to support teammates, friends, family, and, really appreciate you
jumping on the pod to talk experiments, talk baseball,
talk programmatic ads. It's been a pleasure. Yeah. I would say thank you so much for inviting
me. I'd say if there's one magical takeaway from all of this, I would say, if you don't
have a culture of experimentation, you need to change that culture. And so what is the change
management that your organization needs to think about in order to build a
culture of experimentation around everything you do? I love that
music to my ears, and, where can folks find you if they wanna learn more about all
things Knees? Jeez. I don't know. I maintain a pretty low profile, but I'm on,
LinkedIn. Kenice Murphy. Lovely. All one word. Maybe they'll run into you at the next no
hitter at Giants, baseball. It was really something. It was really cool. I've never I've never
been I've been, complete game shutout, but I've never been, like, all the way to the
last batter of the game. And it was just it it was wild. You can feel it. You
can absolutely feel it. Like, I'm still feeling it just talking about it. So
That's amazing. I'm glad you got to experience it. Hopefully, another opportunity arises. Yeah. Yeah.
Lovely. Can't wait to see you again in, the Bay Area, and, have an awesome,
long relaxing Labor Day weekend. Thanks, everybody. Will do. Alright. Thanks, Ty.