'Playmakers' Galatians Podcast | Episode 2 - How do we get back up when life tackles us really hard?

We can often get tackled and hit hard by the events and circumstances life throws at us. Sometimes we are able to shrug off those tackles and keep running our race. However, other times it can leave us on your knees really struggling to get back up.

In this episode of 'Playmakers' we talk to Jane & Yvette, two amazing woman who have ridden tackle after tackle during their lives, whilst continuing to carry the ball of Grace.

What is 'Playmakers' Galatians Podcast ?

At the beginning of Galatians, Paul sets out his testimony as evidence of the truth of the gospel of Jesus and it's the same with us as disciples. The gospel of Jesus is true and our testimony of life is part of that evidence which illustrates that it's true. As Jesus says in Matthew Chapter 7 :16 "By their fruit you will recognise them."

So as we think about the message of Galatians in this Playmakers podcast, we're talking to real people and thinking about how the gospel of Jesus has transformed, underpinned and built the lives of men and women of God, men, and women in our community. How do they live in freedom and guard that freedom in Christ?

These are not the testimonies of people who are far away, but people who sit next to us at CCBS on Sundays and in small groups, real people who show that Jesus is Lord in their daily lives.

Hello and welcome to the Playmakers Galatians podcast. We are joined by two new guests in our studio. Hello guests. Hello? Hello. Can you please introduce

yourselves? Hi, I'm Yvette Sanson. I've been coming to, the church for just not quite a year, arrived from Braintree when the church closed there, I've been part of relational mission for a very long time.

Well,

it's lovely to have you Ave. Thank you. Thank you for coming.

Hello. And I'm Jane Lane and I've been coming to the car center for about. 1718 years now. Wow. And I'm married to Andy lane and I've got three children. Wow.

Thank you for coming. And it's lovely to have you here as well, Jane. I'm gonna introduce our big question.

So, today's question is when life hits you extra hard, how do you get up and carry on in faith? Can you explain what we mean by that? Nigel? Okay.

It's not necessarily an obvious theme in Galatians that life hits you extra hard and you gotta get up and carry on, but it does fit in with the theme we've been looking at on Sundays.

Or we are looking at Sundays as we try and follow Jesus faithfully. We're often tackled and hit hard by life. Sometimes that can feel quite soft. Other times it leaves you on your knees struggling, and it's really. Really hard for Paul. A lot of that had to do with persecution and imprisonment, but it also had to do with the legalism versus, grace and all of that sort of stuff.

Paul wrote in Galatians two 20, I've been crucified with Christ and I no longer live. But Christ lives in me. So what we are kind of interested in is when life hits you really extra hard. And I know we both know that for you guys, life has had times when it's hit you very hard, the enemies hit you, all of those things.

How did you get up? How did you carry on? How can you help us and other people in the church to carry on? Because we all get hit by. Hmm.

I think from my point of view, this is Yvette, what I've observed over many years. Cause I'm now very aged. Is that what happens with a lot of people is when life hits them really hard, they tend to back off church.

Hmm. And I think it's the worst possible thing to do the best possible thing to do. And the decision I made was to get stuck. Mm, even more really. And if that meant, I sobbed my way through church, then I sobbed my way through church. And if it meant I cried through worship, then I cried through worship and sometimes church is the hardest place to be because when you're there, the holy spirit shows up and all your defenses go and you just have to get on with it.

But I think it's the most fatal error. To back off, the best thing to do is to get stuck in. So can we

ask you, how did life hit you hard? What happened

to you event? Um, which, which episode? Well, I , I guess, chronologically, one of the hardest things was discovering that, but I have three children, a girl and two boys, uh, and quite early on, both my boys were diagnosed with autism.

The youngest is still nonverbal. And, we'll unless there's an absolute miracle, we'll never. Live an independent life. They were both prayed for at the same time for healing. One of them kind of learned his way out of autism. The other one didn't uh, and my daughter's just recently going through a diagnosis for autism, as well as an adult.

So, I think when you have a child with a disability, um, I mean, Andrew Wilson talks about it as the life. You never expected. It's very much less and you feel robbed and you feel a sense of mourning for this child and for the relationship that won't be there. How long have you been living

with that?

How

old are they now? Oh, I have to lie about my age and say I was 12 when I had them. Matthew is now 35. He's the youngest. Jake is 38. Jake is so much healed that he's now a motor sport commentator. Wow. And he, he talks for a living. Yeah. So from not being able to develop English at a normal age, uh, he.

Never stops talking, mostly about Motorsport. Matthew has a few odd words here and there and lives. Uh, he's about to move in the next couple of weeks from, a care home to supported living. So even though He's quite disabled, uh, learning disabled, he's still making progress and I can still see the hand of God on him, but it was a tough thing as a young mom with three children under the age of four, at the beginning, then as they got older, discovering that two of them had quite a severe learning disability that.

it was tough. Yeah. I

imagine it was a, a big shock, because again, when you've got, uh, when you're expecting children, it's like you plan out that what life's gonna look like. And then all of a sudden.

You know. Yeah. And we were investigating, Jake who's the middle child's, child. He's an, I don't know, we were investigating his lack of language development and, there was a sort of special speech therapy playgroup that I took him along to for his diagnosis.

And I was taking Matthew along. Cause I had nobody else to leave him with. And at the end of the course of sessions, they said to me, of course you realize Matthew is worse and I hadn't. Right. And that was a huge shock. I just thought he was an incredibly well behaved, quiet child. Right. Because he was still very.

Yeah. Yeah.

And what about you, Jane? Do, would you care to share?

Yeah. Mine's been a health condition and, I had a chronic illness for three years. So back in 2017, I started experiencing really bad pains where I was struggling to walk. I couldn't drive. I was struggling to even like lift my arms. And I didn't quite know what was going on with me.

It started off slowly and we just thought it was gonna be Achilles tendonitis. but I went to so many consultants and, in the end, a consultant said to me, I'm really sorry to say, but you've got lupus and it's a chronic condition. It's incurable, and I'm basically gonna be on medication for the rest of my life.

Well, in that doctor's office, I just felt that I was hit by a train and, the grief just overwhelmed me, but. In that split second, I knew that I had a choice and I could choose to do this on my own and maybe even feel a bit let down by God and why he let this happen to me. Or I could just hold on to God with everything I've got.

And thankfully I decided to do the letter I just knew I couldn't get by without him. And I think I just really wanted to sort of show what faith looks like with a chronic illness. Some days, I could worship God, read my Bible, come to church, lift my hands. And some days I would be on the floor of the shower sobbing because of the pain and because of not knowing.

If I was gonna be healed or not. And I just wanted to sort of encourage people really that it's still faith, whether you are on the floor of the shower floor. Yeah. Or whether you are raising your hands in church. And I think it took me a while to realize that because I looked at myself and I would see myself as weak

or I'd feel that I didn't have enough faith sometimes. But actually it was through people at church. They would see me coming to church because I really didn't wanna Ms. Church or group or anything. I just wanted to fill every part of my life. With God, but a bit like the sums some days I would be really complaining and really crying.

Yeah. But that is, that was okay. And it was through other people saying to me, Jane, I can just really see that you are really, faithful and you're really holding onto God. And I felt like a fraud when they were saying that to me and I. To be really transparent with people and say, well, actually you didn't see me earlier today when I was like crying and complaining, but then they said to me, yeah, but you've still got your stake in the ground.

You're still holding onto your faith. and I thought, do you know that's right. And the thing, what the enemy wants you to do, he wants you to focus on your shortfalls. He wants you to focus on your shortcomings. He wants you to focus on your failures, and I'd just be really honest with God. And I'd say, I'm feeling this, this, this, and this.

However you are still on the throne. However, you are still my God. However, you are still my king. Yeah. And I just found that even if I wasn't feeling it by owning up to how I felt, but then making those declarations, gave me strength, but I certainly wasn't strong every day, a bit like what Yvette said it was.

I knew, I just had to jump into everything feet first with regards to God.

Okay. So. The thing about being hit hard is that you can get hit hard once and you get out and you might be limping, but you're almost certain to get hit hard again. And I know that testimony wise, there is more to come on this.

What else has happened? I'm looking particularly at Ave because I know there's more to come

and well in 1998, my husband left. Um, when the kids were 14, 12 and 11, and he left me for a man. so it was really difficult because for over a decade, the children had grown up with both parents.

Being committed, Christians, both involved at church, and we'd sort of worked our way through, learning to live with Matthew's particularly Matthew's disability. Jake's a bit to some extent as well, but then I was on my own and not only was I on my own, but one of the parents who had said this is everything I've stood for all my life was suddenly saying, no, it's not.

And I'm rejecting all of that. And, I was really worried that, the kids would be bullied because of it. So we, we tried to sort of like, keep quiet about why it was that he'd left. And although there was, I mean, somebody said to me, uh, well, I'm sorry to hear your news, but you know, there's two sides to every story.

And I thought, well, you know, sometimes it's just one, there's actually sometimes just one side to the story. And to have to tell people my husband's left me, I felt so much shame and so much failure. Although there was nothing I could have done really to have changed the outcome.

But it was really difficult. But however, the church around me, my elders, they encouraged me to lead worship to continue preaching. And I did within a few weeks of him leaving, uh, I was still doing those things and it was incredibly painful. And also at the time when he left, we were supposed to be going to stoneley for the first time.

Cuz our friends Morrison, Rachel had said you should come to stoneley cuz there's a fantastic crush there for children with disabilities called the arc and Matthew would love it. And we'd decided, yes, we'll go. And they'd been talking about this for a couple of years really? And we said, yes, we'll go. And then he left and they said to me, why don't you come anyway?

Bring the. Come anyway. And I did. And, they were like, surrounded by 7,000 people worshiping and it was just so full of joy. It was a hideous place to be in a way. Oh yeah. It was just, I just stood in a lot of the meetings and just cried all the way through the worship. And it was the year that let there be joy came out and that was.

The most cheerful song in, in the cannon of, worship songs. And I can remember coming out of the main tent or the main cow shared as it was in those days. And, one of the elders from Morris's church then, and said to me, I don't know how you can stand it. And I said to him, I just know that if I don't I'm lost and he said, you're right, carry on.

It was difficult, but , it was really important to carry on serving and to, for one of, one of my children's parents to carry on the same sort of the same beliefs, the same faith, because it wasn't just my faith. I was fighting for. It was theirs as well. Really mm-hmm and years later, when they were grown up, I did take my courage in my hands and ask them, how did I do as a single parent?

Uh, and my daughter said to me, you just carried on being you mm. Which was so important. And to just keep doing the things and, and keep, uh, and I can remember the first Sunday after he left, going to our little, we had like a little satellite church that met in the pub. Uh, and somebody said, I have no idea why I should bring this verse, but I think I should bring it.

And I don't know who it's. I know the plans I have for you plans to prosper you and not to harm. You says the Lord plans, plans to give you hope and a future. And I clung to that verse for years. Yeah. Still it came up again and again and again, and I clung to that scripture and I chose to believe that it was true that God would give me, uh, a future and it wasn't gonna be a grim one.

Yeah. Yeah.

Were there any particular verses for you, Jane, that you clung sued during.

Yeah. What do you think on going through? Um, I think it's, oh, I think it's Isaiah 40, 31. And it's, those who wait on the Lord will soar up with wings, like Eagles. They shall run and not be weary. They shall walk and not faint.

And I think for me, I wasn't really able to walk and run for a time. And so tho those words just really leaped out at me. And I think I hung onto scriptures and also God doesn't mind us reminding him of his promises. Yeah. And you can see that all through the Bible, other characters in the Bible that they would remind God of his promises and.

I just feel there's such power in speaking that back to him and, disappointments are gonna come. And I think the wa waiting is just so hard. Like when you are waiting, I think before I had anything really bad happen to me, I used to think, well, what's so bad with waiting. Waiting's. No waiting room is just waiting, but actually waiting is so painful.

And I think when you've gone up for prayer time and time and time again, to be healed and it hasn't happened. You question, if you've done something wrong, and I had some not so great experiences. We traveled somewhere for a couple of hours and, had someone pray for me amongst others, at a venue.

Only to speak sort of told basically that there wasn't enough faith in the room for the healing and that's fine. So that's, I had quite a few experiences like that, which sort of like. Would knock me backwards, but, again, it's amazing how gracious God is to you and it's holding on to things. Not only he would tell me, but he would tell me through my children.

My daughter, who was 12 at the time, I'd been ill. A matter of sort of like weeks at this stage, not years. And, I went to bed one night and she left a note , on the pillow saying, mama asked the holy spirit why he hasn't healed you yet. And he told me I can make mountains move and seize dry up.

Don't think that I can't or won't heal your mum. Oh. And so times when I would be. I can't do this anymore. I would just look at that piece of paper. I carried that piece of paper, absolutely everywhere. And there were also other people through this church that, told me as well that I was gonna be healed or had pictures for me.

And those things just gave me such encouragement. And just going on again about God's grace, it was just in this time when. I was going through something like so difficult, the kindness of people was just amazing. And I made friendships in the church that I didn't have before my illness. And I made connections that I didn't have before my illness.

So God really does use, the bad stuff to make something good out of it. Yeah.

Yeah.

Did what's happened to you ever. Affect your view of Jesus. You have both said that you really clung onto him. Was there ever a time where maybe you thought, um, I'm, I'm not sure. Did you faith ever, ever wobble.

I think with my, my third episode, um, , which is when she hasn't finished yet. No, sorry. Um, in 2002, I, I got ill and was diagnosed with something I'd never heard of called myasthenia gravis. Um, which means severe muscle weakness. And, it started really sort of in a minor way. I started in the evenings after I'd eaten thinking, my mouth feels really weird.

Maybe I'm allergic to something, but it was actually a sort of a, a muscle weakness. And basically the neurotransmitter stopped telling you muscles what to do. And, uh, I got steadily worse and then I got really bad and really worse and worse and worse. And my kids, I think, thought I was dying in front of them.

And I know that people did think I might be dying. Uh, I, I had a prophetic word about it. I was telling somebody I'd had a prophetic word that there was gonna be something nice come along after I was well. And she said, oh, you're not gonna die, then tactful. But, um, but reflective of what people actually thought.

I think I was going through this process and it was probably, it was probably about four or five years before I started to feel anything like, well, uh, and I, I really think it didn't do my faith any good mm-hmm because I did wonder, you know, I always kind of had this theory that I have a child with a disability that really ought to give me a buy into the next round.

I shouldn't have anything else go wrong. It's in it's enough. And then all this other stuff happened as well. Uh, and. You know, I just thought, it does say in God's word, you will not be tested beyond what you can bear. And I did really think that his estimate of what I could bear was a heck of a lot bigger than right.

Estimate of what I could bear yeah. At times. I think there is sometimes, you have to sort of say, well, I don't have a choice here because where do I go other than Jesus. Yeah. You know, what, what else is there? There isn't anything else once you've known the truth and once you've. Come to realize you can have a relationship with Jesus.

Where else would I go? Yeah. And it was that really, I think probably was, you know, otherwise if somebody said, oh, this is just as good, I might have tr I might have given it a try some, some days, but, um, no, there isn't any other solution for me. And it, it does mean that now. Uh, in a sense, no matter what happens to me, I do my default setting now because of it, all, the, all of these things have happened.

And my default setting is God will provide. Yeah. Uh, and I have once or twice said to the anyway, I dunno why you keep bothering with me, you know? why, why don't you move onto somebody else? Cuz you're not gonna get me. Because I do know that Jesus is what gets me through.

I've got a question to ask, which is an unexpected question.

You've both mentioned. I mean, I, I know from conversations with Yvette, some of this stuff, but. You would, what you went through was a disappointment. When you came to Jesus and you were told, you know, your life is now made, you're gonna, you've got eternal life and all the rest of it. I can't imagine for a second that either of you thought, hallelujah, I'm going to get ill.

I'm gonna have problems with my kids, all of that stuff. How did you cope with that disappointment? What did you do with it? Have you coped with it?

There's been times that I don't feel that I have coped with it. I think with my illness, there were times I had complications. There was this one time I was in London and a consultant was saying, that he felt that I had liver disease. Because of the medication I was on, he felt was.

Adding to it, but then I couldn't come off the medication and it was just making me really, really ill. And, um, he said it's a real gray area. God did speak to me on the train. He said, but I don't live in gray areas. And I really love that because it's like, we all live in gray areas where we don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring, but, but he knows.

And that gave me great comfort. And you would think that I should have just stayed in that. Yes, he's, he's on the throne. He's in control, but actually by the end of that train journey, I'd let fear come in. And I definitely was living with a spirit of fear for some time. I had insomnia. I was.

Violently sick, like nearly every week. I was just had huge anxiety, panic attacks. And, so for a time I really did not feel that I was being very strong at all, but through it all, I actually went to work with like, um, verses in my pocket. And sometimes when I'd feel a panic attack coming on, I'd just NIPT the toilets and like read verse or say it out loud and, and it was almost like something I'd almost have to do hourly.

Um, when it was really bad.

I think disappointment's one of the most corrosive things it's. it's really difficult to live with. And I think there was a time when I would've looked back and told you that the signature word for my entire adult life was disappointment. Uh, that's how it felt at the time that everything had been disappointing or nearly everything had been disappointing.

It's it? Wasn't what I signed up for. I think I'm probably happier now than I ever have been. And you know, we've not long come through a pandemic when 80% of my income disappeared and I just thought God will provide, because I think so many awful things have happened that, my testimony is that he will bring me through everything.

It is difficult dealing with disappointment, but I suppose disappointment doesn't last forever. I learned two really important things along the way. I think one, after my husband left a, I went to counseling for a year with a, a wonderful Christian counselor. And she said to me, sometimes there is no best thing to do.

All you can do is the least worst. And that was actually really quite releasing to know that I'm not supposed to be doing a best thing all the time. Sometimes I can go with just, what is the least worst and what is, what is it I can manage at the moment. uh, and that was quite freeing. And, uh, the other was, um, my church leader when I was back at, in my, this days, uh, John Prty and he just used to say, it will not always be like this.

That's just a few words, but they're very comforting sometimes when I'm feeling really disappointed about, so. I remember John saying it will not always be like this. I think he was talking about his wife learning to drive at the time, but no, it will not always be like this.

You talked about waiting Jane mm-hmm , You you've waited a long time. You've made the decision. You said you made the choice to hang on to God. Um, what's happened

yeah. Well, I made the choice to hang on and it was like if it said before, because, and sometimes when there was that feeling like I just dunno what to do or.

I obviously had my anchor in my health instead of in him which is so easy to do, cuz health is just such a big thing. faith really is a journey and it's like looking at the whole journey and it's like, sometimes you could be full of faith in the morning and you can be on the floor at night crying.

And it's just, almost just accepting that that's okay, because just choose, just keep choosing him. and he's, he's chose you and he's not gonna let you go. And just knowing that it is a journey and it doesn't look one certain way, it can look very different for everybody.

Just before lockdown, actually, I was feeling like a lot more sort of able in my body. And so, I mean, I've, I've lost count of how many medications I was on at one point, I don't know I was on everything it felt like. And, um, and I started to just, without the doctor's permission, I just sort of came off.

One of them just on my own, I thought, well, because I would just forget to take it cause I was feeling okay. And then the one that was making me really ill, I thought, oh, I better ask the doctor for permission for that. She was like really quite against me being off this drug. So I said, well, can you ask my consultant?

And, um, she said, yeah, but you know, she couldn't really see why he would sort of just let me drop the medication. So anyway, I just prayed and asked God, I said, Lord, just let it be really obvious to me that if I'm to stop this medication, please let it be without any doubt. Cause I don't wanna stop it if I'm not supposed to.

Yeah, because. I'm not saying cuz medications, you do need sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, anyway, she phoned me up like the next day or a couple days later and she went, she just started off the conversation going good news. The co consultant says because you've been feeling so well, why don't you give it a go and come off the medication?

Well, that was in May, 2020, and I haven't been on any medication since. And I think at one time in my life, I was on steroids, morphine, methotrexate hydroxychloroquine pregabalin co I mean, I could, the list goes on.

Are you speaking in tongues?

We'll wait for the interpretation.

I know it taught me quite a while to pronounce them as well.

um, yeah, and then in the lockdown, when Boris said we could only exercise for an hour a day. Well, I hadn't done any exercise in about three years, but as soon as Boris said, we're only allowed an hour. I thought, well, I'm gonna take that hour . At first , it was like really pushing, cause it'd feel like shackles around your ankles, almost like the pain and the, the weight and.

But I found the more I did it, the easier it became. So, um, yeah. And then, you know, sort of towards the end of the mini lockdowns, I was doing some 20 K walks, you know, when, um, I would struggle to talk from weight shows up to church. Right. And there was a time I was in a wheelchair, so yeah.

Wow. Uh, yeah, I don't take as much medication as I used to, although I will be on medication for, um, the foreseeable future.

But, uh, I was in shielding, um, during the first lockdown, not leaving the house for 12 weeks. Um, uh, but then as soon as Boris said, us shielding people were allowed out for an hour. I went slightly mad and did couch to 5k, which okay. , you know, my consultant's really pleased with, and, uh, we've been able to reduce my medication.

So, you know, from,

and do you do 5k three times a week

now about that? Yeah. Yeah.

So you, the local park

run then yeah. If people who knew me years ago knew I was running, they would, they would just laugh.

Yeah. Can I just say, don't do any of this sort of like long walks nowadays and a bit like what you said as well. I was, shielding in the first lockdown as well, and we were in the extremely vulnerable category. But again, God said to me, you are not in the extremely vulnerable category. Those that don't believe in me are in the extremely vulnerable category, because it was horrible to be sort of in that category.

You. I dunno, like

alone in my case.

Yeah. Um, just wanna ask, this is an odd question. We have to remember that this podcast is for the church is for people to hear and hopefully outside the church too, but. Of the people who were around you when you were going through those difficult times, can you give some examples, first of all, of what people did that didn't help whatsoever.

And both of you have given an example of that already, really, but what people did did that didn't help whatsoever. And also what people did that encouraged you and did help. And those really helpful so that people in our church can know that when they're watching people going through. How can I help?

I think when I, when my husband had left and I was at home with the children, quite a lot of people invited me around with the children, but I became an invisible person as an adult.

I didn't get invited round to dinner as an adult, as a single person, suddenly it was only, I was only an entity with my children. and that was not terribly helpful. But on the other hand, there were some excellent examples of men particularly said to me, he's a fool. And that there was, there was a lot of encouragement to preach, uh, to lead worship, to be part of the worship team, that there was encouragement to exercise my ministry, which was really helpful.

Because it kind of like was saying, don't worry about what's happened to you. We know that it wasn't your fault. And you know, you're not in any way tainted by it. because it was really difficult to walk back into church that first Sunday, uh, but to be, to be put, to work useful in the church was really, really helpful.

Jay. Yeah. I think the biggest thing for me is when people would say to me, but you look really well. And I think I just wanna speak on behalf of all people that have suffered with chronic illness, you can't see it. And, um, and some days it's worse than others. So some days people might see, oh, she's walking, okay.

Up the road. And then another day you might be in a wheelchair. And, and they're a bit sort of like, can't kind of get their head around that.

I really felt that God wanted to heal me from the inside out.

He didn't just want to heal me physically. I felt that he really wanted to heal my heart. So I went for transforming prayer quite a few times. Which was a great help to me. Was going to two community groups, different community groups. And I just had different people of the, church message me to check in on me.

And at church every Sunday I'd always have, um, I don't. Whether I mention names or not, but I'd always have this particular person insist on praying for me every single time, which I was just so blown away by really that they would take the time to do that. So was that a

good thing? Yeah, that was a good thing.

So you can say their name then cuz it all bless them and encourage them.

Yeah. Neil Kirkland. Mm-hmm awesome. He just, every week , he would spot me and he'd go, Jane, let me pray for you. It was just such a, it was a real blessing. Yeah.

And so that, that was an encouragement to, to, to you guys, how would you encourage others?

Who may be going through something similar or who will go through something similar in the future?

It's extraordinary. How things work really? Cuz um, it was 2002 that I was diagnosed with Mysia gravis about. Two months ago, I got a new client and at my first meeting, she said, uh, I apologize.

She said, if I seem at all tired, she said, but I've, I've got this strange illness called myasthenia gravis. No way I've got that. And she said, I could cry. Should I haven't met anybody else. And I'm in the, in the depth of it. And it's been extraordinary how God's used that really, it took 20 years. Before I was put in front of somebody that I could encourage.

Yeah. But, uh, I have been a real encouragement to her and, you know, nobody else has heard of this illness. So how could anybody else understand what it's like? It, it is extraordinary how God uses you later. And it's often I find that it's the longer view. When I look back that I can see his hand and how he's had his hand.

On my life at various stages. And, and I can see now I couldn't necessarily at the time, but I can see now how he blessed me at moments through it. Yeah. Not taking me out of it, but how he blessed me through it.

Yeah. Wow. How, how would you encourage

others, Jane? Yeah, I'd just say, when the rug's pulled out from under you.

Like just hold on to him as, hold on to God, as he holds onto you, there really is nowhere else to go. And you realize that when you feel like everything's taken from you and also I just say, Just get people around you that can pray for you that you trust. And that can just be really honest too, and just transparent with, because, it's really good to just be honest about your feelings and, um, And honest to God about your feelings and then ask for his strength days when I couldn't pray, you know, I'd just say, Lord, I, I just can't pray today.

Holy spirit please interse on behalf of me, I, I haven't got the words today. and that's okay. Mm-hmm

and just don't back off church. Get stuck in mm-hmm I think,

uh, before we close, before we finish, there's just one more question and I only want brief answers for this. How are you doing now?

Probably better than I have been in years. I'm good.

Yeah. Well, I don't suffer with, fear anymore, apart from public speaking. um, . Um, no, I'm, I'm doing, I'm doing good, but it's still a journey and I'll have days where I feel stronger than other like health wise doing good, but sometimes mentally, emotionally, it's up and down to be honest.

It's been amazing here in both your, your testimonies. I'm absolutely blown away by your strength and your courage and your faith. And I am certain that, that the people who listen to this will be encouraged, Thank you so much for your honesty, and for sharing your lives with us, it's been a real blessing.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.