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The RIOS (for a Racially-just Inclusive Open STEM Education) Institute presents an interview podcast where Dr. Bryan Dewsbury of the Science Education And Society (SEAS) lab converses with individuals who do social justice work in science education and education in general. We hope people enjoy the conversation itself, and consider new ways in which education can be transformative whatever your situation may be.
Welcome back, Knowledge Unbound. Little sad that we're nearing the end of the season. Never the end, really. I mean, we have next next season to look forward to and we've had such a great time with all these great guests. This is episode nine.
Bryan Dewsbury:Today we have a a really really interesting conversation. I had a pleasure of talking to two people at the same time. Constanza Bartholomae, faculty developer at Bryant University, and Christian Fauria, who is now a professor in residence at Bryant University. And there's a lot here when Christian Christian's an intense dude, and and he he's just a lot of fun to talk to and what him and Constanza have been working on. We'll get more into it during the conversation, but what people might know him from is from the National Football League.
Bryan Dewsbury:He spent ten years, I think, ten or twelve years as a National Football League player, got into sports broadcasting, and is now teaching that at Branch University. There's a lot of through lines there about, you know, his experience with with with coaches, right, and what he's learned from that and and what he brings to his classroom. So I really hope you enjoyed this conversation. It was a good one. See you at the end.
Bryan Dewsbury:We are we are trucking along, like Segal likes to keep saying. I'm I'm really excited. I'm on the campus of Bryant University in Smithfield, Rhode Island. There's a a little bit. It feels like my old stomping ground.
Bryan Dewsbury:I lived in Providence for seven years, so I do miss the state a lot. I'm with two wonderful people. Old friend of mine, Constanza Bartholomae, runs the well, helps run you. Run to me, you're always in charge. So I'm gonna say you run it.
Bryan Dewsbury:You can correct me after. And one of the faculty members here, a special individual, his name is Christian Fauria. You all know my jam. I don't I don't, you know, kinda like to speak on behalf of my guests. So Constanza, let me start with you.
Bryan Dewsbury:Why don't you introduce yourself and tell us what brought you to the branch?
Constanza Bartholomae:Sure. So thank you for the wonderful introduction. So grateful to be here with two of my friends. So this this just makes me feel like I'm at home in the office today. But Constanza Bartholomae, Interim Director of the Center for Teaching Excellence at Bryant University.
Constanza Bartholomae:What brought me to Bryant was the idea of being able to work with the faculty. So I entered Bryant in 2020. Not a whole lot happened during that timeframe.
Bryan Dewsbury:Not that I could think of.
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah, no. Nothing- nothing's big in the world was going on. And my boss at the time was Edward Karras, and he said, You know, you've got degrees in the humanities, you've got degrees in business. I think you'd be a really nice fit for working with our faculty one on one in consultations. And that was always my dream because once I entered college, I never left.
Constanza Bartholomae:So I found myself teaching right after I graduated with my first master's degree. And then I found that a lot of universities had teaching centers.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Yeah.
Constanza Bartholomae:And those centers became my home. And so folks in them started saying, why don't you consider doing this? Right. And I said, well, how do you become a faculty developer? What's that process?
Constanza Bartholomae:And then only to learn that there is no one straight path in in order to get there. So that led me to, you know, working in the teaching centers at a couple of institutions before coming here to Bryant full time. And it was it was a dream to land that as full time employment and to get to do what I do every day.
Bryan Dewsbury:You know, it's a great thing you you brought up that you did you you taught before you did this. Right? And because there's a sense in which when I think about faculty development, educational development, you may know there's different terms for it. It's it's it's somewhat analogous to teaching a classroom. Right?
Bryan Dewsbury:I mean, the same things we ask our faculty to be with their students, to listen, to empathize, to understand their history. We ask that of educational developers to understand who the faculty are. And so in that vein, there's there's a special faculty member that you've spent a lot of time with and be doing some cool stuff. Christian Fauria, why don't you tell us who you are?
Christian Fauria:Well, I'm well, I'm a I'm a professor in freshman.
Constanza Bartholomae:There you
Christian Fauria:go. There you go. I'm I'm it's funny. There's I I I whenever people introduce me, they don't introduce me as who I am. They introduce me of what I used to do.
Bryan Dewsbury:I know. I don't think
Christian Fauria:that's is so and it's the only like, professional sports is the only profession that regardless of what you do afterwards, they always lead with former pro football player, thirteen year NFL vet, two time Super Bowl champion like Christian Fauria. That's normally how I get introduced. And even if you're on, like, survivor, right, and you work in, you know, insurance, they will say that that person is a former football player. They don't say he sells insurance because nobody cares. Right.
Christian Fauria:It doesn't come with any weight. No. But I am a, I'm a professor in residence, man. I'm a teacher. And, and I've been here for a little over a year.
Christian Fauria:Okay. Full time for not even maybe six months. And yeah, I played in the NFL, played in college. I won a national championship. I've won pretty much at every level I've ever been in in profession in in football.
Christian Fauria:Mhmm. And now I am, you know, I'm teaching here at Bryant University. I'm teaching not football. That's the thing. I'm not teaching football.
Christian Fauria:I'm teaching something that I know just about I'd know more of, which is broadcasting, radio, television, and leadership. That's those are the three areas that I specialize in.
Bryan Dewsbury:So so what what what made that transition happen? Right? So so both to the both the transition from professional sports to doing broadcasting and things like that, but then to teaching it.
Christian Fauria:Well, listen, I've, I always wanted to be in radio and TV with one of my, everything I did during my football career was just kind of getting me ready, saying yes to almost everything, being on the radio, doing interviews, showing up to appearances. Then when I was done, I just hustled and, you know, got a job. And I'm not gonna bore you with everywhere I've been, you know, and then, and the challenges that existed there, but I've been at ESPN. I've been at CBS. I've been at CBS HQ.
Christian Fauria:I've been at a place called versus. I I did an audition at Fox. I've been everywhere, but I've been in radio and TV locally here in New England for the past, like, fifteen years.
Bryan Dewsbury:Okay.
Christian Fauria:I do the patriots pre and postgame show. I do their late night sports final show. I work for SiriusXM on Wednesdays doing nothing but football. So I was prepared to teach what I do. Mhmm.
Christian Fauria:I've you know, because I've I've been embedded in it for so long.
Bryan Dewsbury:But let me ask you this. You say you don't wanna bore us, but at the same time, given the fact that you teach a class on this, I imagine you probably share with your students, hey, guys. I didn't just roll out the field and walk into a broadcast booth and was immediately successful. Right? I had to get rejected.
Bryan Dewsbury:I had to kind of mess up. Right? So so are you sort of that open with your students?
Christian Fauria:I let them see every single scar I have. It is very important because I think most people real think that, Hey, you played in the NFL. They just, they're going to hire you. No. Ask Emmett Smith, Jerry rice.
Christian Fauria:They all got hired, right? Jerome Bettis. They weren't any good for one ever, for one reason or another, whether they just thought they can just roll out of bed and just talking nonsense. That didn't make any sense, you know, then, then that would be fine, but they had to work at it. You have to network.
Christian Fauria:The number one thing I talk about, forget about the technical skill, where the mic is and how your voice and your tone. The biggest part about this job is hustling. Yeah. You gotta be a hustler. You have to work.
Christian Fauria:You, and, and it's not just, you know, there's a skill to it. There's an art to it. There's a, there's a, you know, a timeframe to it. There's an I, we teach all this stuff. That's really the number one thing.
Christian Fauria:Cause I can teach anyone technical aspects. I can teach them physical aspects. The emotional side is what I would say goes into a lot of what I teach rejection, self worth, you know, all those things that young adults, you know, bitch and complain about that adults deal with too. Yeah. Yeah.
Christian Fauria:So to be honest with you, I lean on Constanza for a lot of technical aspects about how do I teach and how I grade, but I also probably more on her for, can I say this?
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Yeah.
Christian Fauria:And and this is how I wanna say it. Well, let me Can I do it?
Bryan Dewsbury:Let let me ask you a question on that. Concerns I'll I'll bring in here in a second. And this is maybe me just as a relatively naive consumer of sports. Right? I grew up in a different country, so I didn't really watch NFL until I moved to America at 19.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? So I grew up watching soccer, like, through and through, and cricket too, but soccer was number one. Right? And one of the things that one of the things that strike me now when I watch sports is the pre and post game people. Right?
Bryan Dewsbury:And it's helpful. I'm just gonna use a soccer reference. It's helpful that when one of the people on that panel was a former soccer player, they can interpret some of the things that happened in that game for me as a viewer who never played professional sports. Big fan of the game, I think I know a decent amount, but I never coached, never played. So so they can, like, interpret plays.
Bryan Dewsbury:They can tell you what somebody was thinking. Right? So there's a sense in which I'm relying on their sophisticated knowledge Oh. To to to, you know, make that knowledge palatable for me. So I now have a better sense of what's going on.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? There's a sense in which, Constanza, my intro bio students are relying on me to take the complicated aspects of of the concepts of physiology and anatomy so they can get a way in to this discipline. Is is that a link that that you all try to make when you when you do this? Both when you design your curriculum, when you teach, but also when you when you support
Christian Fauria:him. I
Constanza Bartholomae:mean, I think I'd I'd wouldn't have said it as eloquently as you just said it. But yes, I think that's exactly what it boils down to. You know, as Christian was listening to you speak, I could see his eyebrows being raised. Yes. That's exactly it.
Constanza Bartholomae:Because, know, to me, tell me if I'm wrong, Christian, but I think you agree with that. That, yes, our our job is to be here to support and motivate our It's also to give them the energy and the enthusiasm to break these complex ideas down themselves, work with us, have us validate, okay, yes, you're on the right track here. Or, you know, let's think about this question a little bit further.
Bryan Dewsbury:And
Constanza Bartholomae:to learn alongside them, because I'll tell you, I learn from my students every single day. I learn from my faculty every single day. So yes, I I do think so. But I think it's it's not just that we're breaking down the material, they're helping us, you know, they're, you know, in our, you're saying, okay, but have you looked at it this way too? That's learning.
Bryan Dewsbury:They as in the students or they as in the faculty that you Both. Work
Constanza Bartholomae:Both. Okay. Both. Because I think what you just pointed out, you know, with your sports reference is when Christian walked into my office, I too knew nothing about football.
Bryan Dewsbury:I also You you have less oh, no. No. You yeah. You moved here from Germany.
Constanza Bartholomae:So Right.
Christian Fauria:Right.
Bryan Dewsbury:Okay.
Christian Fauria:Yeah.
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. And my dad was a soccer guy through and through. He was a soccer goalie growing up. That is what got him through World War two, honestly, with soccer. And the the just notion that he could go outside and and play and distract himself in the midst of a really, really awful time.
Constanza Bartholomae:But to your point, you know, when faculty come in, I'm not always familiar with their subjects. I don't know anything about broadcasting. I don't know anything about football. And yet Christian was here saying, Hey, I need support with teaching. That's a language I can talk about.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Constanza Bartholomae:That's where we found common ground. And that's, that's, as you know, that's what we do in educational development because I can't be a subject matter expert in everything.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah.
Constanza Bartholomae:But I can be a subject matter expert in pedagogy and what evidence based teaching strategies are out there and looking at all of these different subjects and thinking about how we can reach all of these different individual students. Yeah.
Christian Fauria:So just just to add to that because, yeah, we're talking about making the complex simple. If you're talking about what I do, our producers and our my program director would always say, remember, everybody is not a former NFL football player. Mhmm. So I can't explain a certain play like I'm talking to my coach because we are speaking a different language and it's an and it's an elite language based on, you know, the the job that we're doing, you know, but most of the time, like the things that I'm, I always try to and say, how do, how can I continually dumb this down? Because the one thing that would always screw us up in the NFL was we were making a real simple play overly difficult because we were laboring over its design and the personnel and the execution and it and its foundation we are blocking and tackling, and it becomes harder once you get five people trying to make it better when it's already complete.
Christian Fauria:Like, the the harder part is convincing the person who needs to do that, how to do it well. Mhmm. That's your real goal as a coach. You put the plays up. Okay.
Christian Fauria:You you five yards and turn around. That's the play. Okay. Well, there's nuance to that. There's an emotional attachment to that.
Christian Fauria:There's so many different things that go into that. My son got diagnosed with diabetes maybe six years ago. And I had to sprint to the hospital, just like drive like a crazy man because he had all these complications. And as soon as I walked into the door, the lady like handed me a syringe that we got to teach you how to do this now. You're gonna have to give your, your, your son injections, you know, insulin injections.
Christian Fauria:And then they created this formula and also this, I was like, this doesn't work for me. I don't, I'm gonna kill him. Like I swear to God. I said that I was like, I don't have a clue what I'm doing. I said, so what you're saying is this blah, blah.
Christian Fauria:And he said, yeah. I said, well, why is it fair to say, can I just think of it this way? And she said, yeah, the, your, the, your formula gets the same answer that our formula gets. And I said, okay, well then I'm gonna use this, you know, and I will come in here all the time with some stupid idea. Okay.
Christian Fauria:Makes no sense.
Bryan Dewsbury:You you mean come into
Christian Fauria:the Right. And I was like, and I just, I barge in like a big elephant. Right? I don't even knock. She's on the phone.
Christian Fauria:I'm like, I got five minutes. I need your expertise. This is the problem. It's it's it's think about it as an equation. I just can't, I can't see it.
Christian Fauria:And then you see, you, you know her, right? She's very calm. I'm out of control. And, and there is such an, there is such a calm ease and confidence that I leave this building with this room with when I take her advice Yeah. As a coach, because that's who she is to me.
Christian Fauria:She's my coach. Yeah. And and when I and then I, you know, give it to my students, you know, and then I present it to my students, you know, there's no hiccup in my step. There's no cracking in my voice. Right.
Christian Fauria:Say it with confidence.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right. Right.
Christian Fauria:And because I hate when they look at me and I'm like, oh crap, I'm not making sense.
Bryan Dewsbury:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Christian Fauria:You know? And and that's usually
Bryan Dewsbury:Well, it you know, here's here's what you don't know, Christian. And and what makes this delightful and what makes partly why I was so excited to have this conversation. Constanza knows this. I I think, you know, a lot has gotten better in terms of faculty development, in terms of how we are perceived and, you know, how people regard her services. But it wasn't always that way.
Bryan Dewsbury:And in fact, there's still, I'm sure, I mean, I don't wanna depict that as faculty. Right? But I'm sure there are still people, maybe even on this campus, who don't quite think that training somebody to teach or working with with faculty is a thing. It's a thing that requires a full time person and a full time office. Right?
Bryan Dewsbury:So the the we we in higher education, we still have, unfortunately, a culture. Again, it's getting better, but we still have a little bit of a culture as all you need to do is get your PhD in something, and that gives you the right to teach. So here it is you have, you know, Christian Fauria come in, you know, a very accomplished individual, but willing to barge through like an elephant, right, and say, hey. I need help with this thing.
Christian Fauria:Where are peanuts?
Bryan Dewsbury:I don't know. I have a feeling you do ask that question. I there's this thing. I don't know how to do this well. Yeah.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? And I'm not going to transfer the expertise I have in this other space and just assume I can walk in here and teach. And that humility is what builds the trust and builds the relationships. I don't know if you kind of are aware of that coming in, but, you know, it's hot and cold, Constanza, in terms of, you know, sometimes you get people who love this stuff and sometimes people are like, yeah, you know, whatever. I know all the physics in the world.
Bryan Dewsbury:I don't need your, you know.
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. I mean, well, Brian, as you just said, I know this. This is my day to day, right? I think part of what's great about being an educational developer is to say, okay, are you unsure? Follow me.
Constanza Bartholomae:Let's defy expectations together. Right? I think it's really cool when that light bulb switches for certain faculty who might be hesitant. I think it's also too, you know, we're so proud of our subject matter expertise in academia. We're told, you know, when you have your PhD, you're one person who knows so much knowledge about this particular subject.
Constanza Bartholomae:And we don't spend, as you know, so much time saying, here's how to carry this information over Jim Lang style. Here's how to write like, you know, you teach. Here's how to teach like you write. Like, we don't we don't do that. Mhmm.
Constanza Bartholomae:And so folks think, okay. Well, I went through the grueling process of school. I've got my title now. Some folks. Right?
Constanza Bartholomae:Like, again, not everyone.
Bryan Dewsbury:Not everyone. Mhmm.
Constanza Bartholomae:And and they don't come. I also think a lot of times it's fear. It's I don't know what questions to ask.
Bryan Dewsbury:But let me let me interrupt you.
Constanza Bartholomae:Have a quick
Bryan Dewsbury:Please do. To ask a follow-up. Is it fair fair? Yes. But also, if I have a PhD, I know that not everybody does, but if if I have sort of a a degree that gives me the right to do this job, is there a feeling almost of embarrassment, like, I'm not supposed to be in a situation where I'm asking for help with something.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? So that that, like, that perception of students seeing you as expert, that sort of transfers to every other space on campus where to come to Constanza and say, hey, I need help with this thing. Like that's that's not a thing I should have to do because of who what I've achieved. Right? Which which is a slightly different thing to fear.
Bryan Dewsbury:Does that make sense?
Constanza Bartholomae:It does make sense. I think that's why there are so many folks who reach out to me after course evaluations come out and say, let's process them, right? Because we don't talk to faculty about, you know, just like students don't always know what office hours are for. We don't always talk to faculty and say, hey, here are the types of questions that you can ask. But I think also there's fear in trying something different for anyone, whether you're on the field, you're in broadcasting, and the public scrutiny of what if it doesn't work out.
Constanza Bartholomae:That can be really, really difficult for some faculty, or for some football players to to sum it. Right? What if this doesn't work out?
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Yeah.
Constanza Bartholomae:That's tough.
Christian Fauria:But, you know, Chris, let me jump in real quick because I I gotta say this.
Bryan Dewsbury:Uh-huh.
Christian Fauria:Now I gotta be careful, but I'm not.
Bryan Dewsbury:I got you.
Christian Fauria:Because, you know, like, I'm I'm very opinionated and, and maybe I'm stepping out of my lane, but there is an aspect of teaching that I have noticed in my short period of time. And for the lack of a better word, I think it's arrogance. I think there's a tad bit of arrogance with, I know it all. I got my PhD. I've done it for years.
Christian Fauria:You know, why should I change? Why should I alter what I do? Why should I ask for help? I'm the expert. Like, I mean, and, and maybe I'm just, you know, equipped because my, your whole career, you always have to try to evolve because in sports, the older you get, the more work you put in because you're older.
Christian Fauria:So we're always looking for an edge, an advantage. We're trying to figure out how we can make and do our job better.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Christian Fauria:And and that's why I've always leaned on assistant coaches, strength coaches, nutrition, nutritionist. How can I do this better? How could I do my job better? And
Bryan Dewsbury:So so your whole career, you you're basically asking those questions all the time.
Christian Fauria:I'm always asking, first of I'm always curious by nature, but I do like, want to be the best at my job. Right. Like I want to be the best at it and, and I'll take I'll, and there isn't anyone I won't ask Like you, Constanza has just been so, you know, so good at, you know, you know, just expressing, you know, the things that I need to know. And I'm not ashamed to say I don't get it.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Yeah.
Christian Fauria:You know? Because I don't get it. And it would be, I'd be foolish to act, walk around like I do get it. That would make it worse. So with me with like the way, like the profession works, I do see, you know, like the the the the subject is, like, math is never really gonna change.
Christian Fauria:Like, how who's adding every now and then there's a new beautiful mind that adds an equation Yeah. Yeah. At some point in time. But I think the way you teach it could change. Right.
Christian Fauria:Is is, I guess, is what I'm saying. You know?
Bryan Dewsbury:The the the yeah. So thanks for that because the the question I was gonna ask you, I'm I'm I'm thinking about the timeline that you laid out for us of your career.
Christian Fauria:Yeah.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? So University of Colorado Yeah. Seattle Seahawks Yep. New England Patriots Yep. Broadcasting.
Christian Fauria:Well, then I went to Washington and then Carolina the last two years and then straight to broadcasting.
Bryan Dewsbury:So so the and and again, I didn't follow NFL growing up, but the the little I know of it now or these so many many things I've read is when you go even though you won a national championship in Colorado, what what I've been told is when you go from the college games in the NFL, even though, you know, you win, etcetera, etcetera, it's it's a different learning curve. It's a it's a different learning curve.
Christian Fauria:Nighting curve.
Bryan Dewsbury:And so so so there's that. Right? And then there's the I'm I'm sure when you move from Seattle to New England, you probably had to get to used to a new system even though you said you were sort of preparing yourself for broadcasting broadcasting when when you you actually started to do it. Right? I saw that.
Bryan Dewsbury:That would have been alright. So so the point I'm getting at is is you would have had several times in your life where you had to have that humility because you couldn't come into Seattle and be like, I won a national championship. You know, nobody can tell me. Right? Night and day.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? When you go to New England, you probably win the Bill Belichick era. Yep. Right? And, I mean, that's its own, you know, that's its own kind of ecosystem.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? So I'm just curious about how much of years of having to have that practice humility. Right?
Christian Fauria:That's the word. That's it. Mhmm. And I think you gotta be comfortable with that. Right.
Christian Fauria:Like humility, I think is a learned trait as well. Mhmm. And I always tried to have humility in anything I did. Even in my personal life, I want humility, with my kids, with my wife, with my parents, with my friends. It's such an underrated asset, you know, to have is just to be humble.
Christian Fauria:Right. I never rolled the right one. The one time I did beat my chest, I regretted it because I just felt like I was, I was, it was just so needless and it was so much more comfortable than, you know, and being humble. So, yeah, so the humility thing is something that I think you learn over time and and then you recognize over time.
Bryan Dewsbury:One of the things we talked about off camera off camera, off mic actually. Sorry. That that I'm I really want us to talk about in more detail is this interest well, actually, to me, obvious parallel between coaching and teaching. And and I really want us to get into it selfishly. I'll I'll make that point, Christian, before I met you.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? I I I I've always been a little maybe disappointed at how people talk about teaching mostly as if it only happens when there's four walls and 20 students in front of you. It's like, no, dude. And you run into a student, you having a conversation as they go to cafeteria, you having an education moment. Like, it's not mentoring in a lab education moment.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? And so it it it seems like in a roundabout way, you've come to that same conclusion through your relationship with coaches over the years in different contexts, good coaches, medium coaches, even the medium ones, I'm sure you learned things from them as well. You know, you might learn what not to do or different ways you might do things. So I'm curious, either of you all can kinda start with this. What from that experience have you brought to your teaching practice?
Bryan Dewsbury:And what are these sort of parallels you're trying to make, not just for yourself, but maybe for other people who are interested in having that discussion?
Christian Fauria:Oh, jeez. What you start. I don't even know where it's like
Bryan Dewsbury:a Feels like a dissertation question.
Constanza Bartholomae:Big It's question.
Christian Fauria:Yeah. It's a big question. I'm like, really, we have to tag team it.
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. Got this. I think let's go. I think first, we have to, you know, in each moment, as you just said so beautifully, make people feel seen. And we have to really understand who they are in order to make them feel seen.
Constanza Bartholomae:What do I mean by that? If a student, you know, runs up to me across campus, I wanna acknowledge that I know who they are. Because I think if folks don't feel comfortable having that, you know, question moment with you where they're asking something of you, if they don't feel comfortable being vulnerable in that state of curiosity, then we're doing something wrong. So I think first is I think about how I have been made to feel like I don't belong in a classroom setting, like I don't belong in a conversation. And there is a lot of exclusion in academia, just like there is a lot of inclusion.
Constanza Bartholomae:Right? So I think about how I don't want to feel first Mhmm. When I'm thinking about how I'm going to interact with other people. And then I think, okay, what would make me feel like I mattered in this conversation? That's how I approach it.
Constanza Bartholomae:But also what would make me feel comfortable to talk to this person? Because in educational development, we have to be able to ask faculty big questions, and they have to feel comfortable enough to answer them. Otherwise, the dynamic doesn't work. It's relationship building.
Bryan Dewsbury:So yeah, building that trust is a necessary precursor to really doing
Constanza Bartholomae:anything That's the groundwork. Yeah. Because we know that faculty won't come if we don't provide that context, right? We're non evaluative confidential spaces, but we have to truly be non evaluative. You come in and ask me a question, say, Brian, you should know the answer to this.
Constanza Bartholomae:You're probably not gonna wanna come ask me the question again. Right? That's that's about the the building block
Bryan Dewsbury:of the Let me push you on that. Yeah. And Christian, I'll bring it in a second. But because I agree with you. Mhmm.
Bryan Dewsbury:But I'm thinking of the listener who wants specifics. Right? And and and now that you haven't given specifics, but the thing that that comes with, right, once I open the door to, you know, getting to know you on that level
Constanza Bartholomae:Mhmm.
Bryan Dewsbury:Then that comes with things. Right? So you might start confiding in me things that I can't really do anything about or I have to have some kind of psychological preparation to have much more difficult conversations because I've we've built that trust. I'm not seeing any of this as bad. Right?
Bryan Dewsbury:But I'm I'm just saying it's not it can't just simply be a matter of like, you know, I want you to trust me so we can, you know, do good curriculum design together. It's that relationship then opens the door, you know, just to give a go back to the coach analogy. Right? Mhmm. Somebody can just walk into the locker room and say, know, x's and o's, this is the play we're gonna run.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? But if you know that your your, you know, your your tight end is is, you know, comes from a situation where to get to the NFL is a life changing economic thing for their family, like, you understand that that's a different experience for that that student. Right? Mhmm. And you as a coach may not be able to go and solve their family situation, but by sort of understanding the stakes involved, right, you just you react to them differently.
Bryan Dewsbury:Your your your embrace of them is different. And I I I wonder without, you know, making any assumptions at anyone, the preparation for that. What has it been like for you?
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. Well, I think each individual student, each individual faculty member is different. So first, you need to take the time to get to know a little bit about them. Mhmm. You know, and not just how are you because it's so easy to just respond good to that.
Constanza Bartholomae:Mhmm. But what makes you excited to teach this class?
Bryan Dewsbury:Your why?
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. What like, what is your philosophy in terms of teaching? How do you, you know, see this content? You have to really ask better questions. I mean, we we know this with AI.
Constanza Bartholomae:You have to. Right. Because the content, right?
Bryan Dewsbury:But it's a little sad AI forced. Oh, that's a whole other thing.
Christian Fauria:Whole other
Constanza Bartholomae:thing. But but, you know, and now it's okay. You know, why does this matter to you? Yeah. What about this lesson is important to you?
Constanza Bartholomae:What's the takeaway for the student here? You have to ask those big, big questions so that faculty can feel comfortable to do it. But I hear you. You also have to know when to refer out, right? So if a faculty member comes to you with something and you're not prepared or trained or, you know, in that, you have to know when you need to lean on the rest of your university team to help support that faculty member.
Constanza Bartholomae:The same thing with students, right? You know, that's why we have tons of student facing resources on campus. So I'm not sure if I answered your question No, no,
Bryan Dewsbury:you did. I mean, it's it's, you know, no one person could be everyone's Jesus. Right?
Christian Fauria:Mhmm. Let me ask you
Bryan Dewsbury:a question.
Christian Fauria:It's Easter Monday. Let me ask you a question. Uh-huh. What what makes you trust some an individual personally? Like, what what builds trust for you?
Christian Fauria:What do you have to go through in order to trust? You never met me before. Mhmm. What what what what kind of relationship will we need to have over time for you to trust me?
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. It's it's a good question. And I think it depends. Right? I mean
Christian Fauria:Well, let's workshop it real quick.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. I'm I'm about to. So, you know, the the follow-up would be it would be trust built around a circumstance. Right? So if if I were to use you as the example that you brought up, the first line of trust is that you introduced to me via Constanza.
Bryan Dewsbury:So there is some kind of positive collateral that comes from the fact that I know her and trust her, you know, in this professional context. And so once she recommends Christian Fauria, I was like, oh, yeah, that's a recommended from Constanza goes along
Christian Fauria:Check that box.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right. You check that
Christian Fauria:box. Right. I'm almost No.
Bryan Dewsbury:No. No. Wait. So we're sitting there so we're sitting we're sitting here having this wonderful conversation. You know, I'm not saying, you know, I'll have you fly a plane and I'll be in it.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Right? I'm not right.
Christian Fauria:We just did a big time trust fall.
Bryan Dewsbury:I'm not saying I'm gonna hand you my credit card and and hope you bring it back Yeah. Not maxed out. Right? You know? So so so I think it is a little situational, and you you what what you have to do, you have to sort of figure out what is the appropriate situation that this trust is being built around.
Bryan Dewsbury:And, you know, maybe over time that situation gets extended. Right? But but, you know, you first think about the context first and then you build from that. I'm curious to hear why you asked.
Christian Fauria:Because I I don't think it's any different and it's basically like shared experiences is what I think you over time, like circumstances, you know, obstacles, challenges, shared, you know, accomplishments, you know, job well done type of stuff. And I think the first thing I would say, if you're looking at like a whole, like check buckle as far as a class, like what, what I've kind of found with Constanza is first of all, the number one thing I'm going to do, I got to learn their name. That's the number one thing because that's the easiest thing. And then I would say in no particular order, the next thing I want to do is put them in as many uncomfortable situations as possible and help them through it. I think there's, I think there's, and that in my classes, I create those on purpose.
Christian Fauria:Yeah. I I will know a person once I get to the midway point or the fifth week or something like that. I know who's timid, who's shy. I know who's maybe a little bit lazy. You know, I'm constantly evaluating their body language, their tone, how they speak when they send in their stuff, you know, what they do.
Christian Fauria:You know, I'm constantly, constantly trying to make them feel uncomfortable.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah.
Christian Fauria:Right. Vulnerable. And then I help them get through it.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Christian Fauria:I'm not leaving you no matter what, no matter what I'm not leaving. You could trust me on that. Right? My goal is to make sure you get an a, if you don't get an a, I screwed up now. So, and that's what I think like those little building blocks are no different than what my coaches did to me on the football field.
Christian Fauria:And that's why when I met Constanza, I'm like, this is some Jedi mind trip type of stuff. She's doing the same damn thing.
Bryan Dewsbury:You know? What he's saying is you can go and coach the New England people.
Christian Fauria:You could. Right now.
Constanza Bartholomae:He compared me to Bill Belichick once, and my husband was like, Constanza, that is the highest honor. And he was speechless.
Bryan Dewsbury:I'm I'm sorry. I'm I'm a Miami boy. I'm gonna go with Mike Schuler.
Christian Fauria:Mike Schuler. Yeah. But I mean, listen, not to get like, I I think you also need to kinda like, I value that. Yeah. You know, I've I've benefited from it.
Christian Fauria:Right? So I'm passionate about giving it back. Mhmm. Because there's no way I'm who I am unless I had the right coaches in my life. Right?
Christian Fauria:And there was always this trust element, you know, that we needed to jump over the whole. We say this all the time, you know, neither nobody gives a crap what you know, until they know that you care like that's that element I think can be incorporated into teaching, you know? So, I mean, that's my, that's my kind of view of the trust element. And I can tell you right now, like I'm getting there with the only thing that that I that I don't like about is like, you know, you get these these students and then, you know, they're gone. So I don't get to add value to their life.
Christian Fauria:Forget about
Bryan Dewsbury:you what you're teaching. Do add value to their life.
Christian Fauria:Well, I wanna I wanna I want more.
Bryan Dewsbury:You don't get to be around when that value gets manifested in the adulthood. Yeah. So here here's the thing though, Christian. I I Come on. I'm with you, but I also don't think it's rocket science in the sense that, you know, and Constanza and I have talked about this in the past.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? When we talk about learning in a classroom, and and I'm gonna pick on STEM here because this tends to be more of a problem in our in our area, is we we tend to have this like big expert talk talk talk talk talk, three four weeks later they get this big exam. Rinse repeat Yeah. Three four more weeks. Right?
Bryan Dewsbury:And and my my question to people is, think of anything you've learned in life. Just a regular thing. Think of, you know, Christian you said you had kids, I have kids as well, right? When I'm teaching my son to to make pancakes or teaching him to fix his bike or something, right? I don't just have him read the manual and then go fix it on his own.
Bryan Dewsbury:Like, intuitively, you know, you sit with a person, right, and you you you, again, you make him uncomfortable. You you you'd have him do little things. You give him feedback along the way. Like, it's a normal way of getting good at something, which I imagine is what you've experienced when you were being coached well through those years. Right?
Bryan Dewsbury:You will, you know, somebody was giving you feedback all the time. And they weren't just looking at your speed and your strength, they were looking at your body language. They were looking at, you know, your intensity, your eyes, how you reacted to to mistakes. So so so this is not to diminish in any way what you're saying is to say, I'm glad that you're making this explicit because I think Constanza and I have been saying for years that, you know, we're not trying to come up with a whole new way of learning. This is just how people learn.
Bryan Dewsbury:We just, for whatever reason, feel like because we got this PhD, you know, we our job is to just talk, talk, talk, talk, and then test you on how much you've heard.
Christian Fauria:So so I I I So what what part don't you agree with?
Bryan Dewsbury:Oh, no. I agree.
Christian Fauria:I feel like you were like, oh, No. No. No.
Bryan Dewsbury:I I agree with everything. What I was what I was saying is, you you you're coming to this realization, like, you're making this comparison that I think is is is an accurate one. What I'm trying to add to this, just to use improv language here, What put a yes and I'm gonna add to it is that I think that our comparison was always there. It's gonna I think it's gonna be really helpful for someone like yourself who's come from another world to come and share that message. Because I think sometimes when people like Constanza and I say it, like, we sound a little preachy and a little like, you know, oh, well, you know, that's your job kind of thing.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? But somebody who's kind of lived through both things, no, actually, guys, this is pretty simple. Right?
Christian Fauria:Did you Oh, yeah. No. No. No. So you're you're absolutely correct.
Christian Fauria:Like, the the comparison has it's always existed. Mhmm. Like, the the the marriage between the two, but it's never been highlighted.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Christian Fauria:I guess is the way that we're trying to do it. Mhmm. Did I get
Bryan Dewsbury:that Yeah. That is exactly what
Christian Fauria:I'm saying. Okay.
Constanza Bartholomae:But I think what Christian also adds to this conversation is the idea that just like every single writer has an editor, every faculty member should have a coach. Right? Yeah. Just like Christian is there supporting yeah. Just like Christian's there supporting his students.
Constanza Bartholomae:Mhmm. We all need support too because, I mean, gosh, I've had so many bad teaching days. Right? Like, and I've needed someone to be there to say, okay, this is one bad teaching day. Or maybe it wasn't as bad as you thought, Constanza, because I always say this to faculty, you are the only one that knows your lesson plan.
Constanza Bartholomae:So if you don't hit all the things on the lesson plan, if it doesn't go according to plan, the only person who knows that is you. Right? Right. So like, get out of your head, Constanza. I've had to have that talk with myself a number of times.
Constanza Bartholomae:But I think that's the analogy there, and that's why Christian's message is so helpful in terms of the educational development space. Mhmm. Because in the classroom, we're usually the only subject matter expert there.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Constanza Bartholomae:Right? But we need to be reminded that just like we're helping give feedback to our students, we need to change the way that we're teaching because the individuals in front of us change. Yeah. The environment changes. Mhmm.
Constanza Bartholomae:You know? We were talking at the beginning of how 2020 was a boring year, right? Nothing happened. Everybody had to change their teaching whether they liked it or not.
Christian Fauria:Right.
Constanza Bartholomae:You know, I had faculty who said to me, I will never do anything with the learning management system. I will never give a class online. Well
Bryan Dewsbury:I I'll up you. I had a colleague, not gonna name him, but he retired. Right? Right? Rather than rather than have to move his class online.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. I think I'm done here.
Christian Fauria:I mean, he's not the
Constanza Bartholomae:only one. He's not the only one. That that but that was not because they couldn't do it. Right? Yeah.
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. That was fear. Yeah. That's what we're doing in educational development. We're saying, okay.
Constanza Bartholomae:I see you. Yeah. And just like Christian's saying to his students, I'm not gonna leave you. That's what educational developers do. They say, I'm gonna walk this path with you.
Constanza Bartholomae:You have to ultimately walk the path yourself. I I can't walk it for you, but I'll walk with you.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right. I will I'll support you along the way. Yeah. So Christian, tell us more about improv in your class. Speaking of making students uncomfortable.
Christian Fauria:Well, I'll I'll can I share with them our we've been noodling on something?
Bryan Dewsbury:Uh-huh.
Christian Fauria:I wanna introduce it. You know? So there's and, I didn't we didn't
Bryan Dewsbury:really signs
Christian Fauria:are nodded in agreement. Yeah. I know because I've been I've been bothering with we've been we've been we okay. You know, like, and that, listen, I'm just going to from the top. Right?
Christian Fauria:Because we didn't like, you know, practice this. We've been writing it out and talking about it nonstop. Like, you know, what do we, what do we value? What are some of things that we love and what do we want some of our students to get out of our class? You know, we've been like, the one thing is everybody shoots for the stars.
Christian Fauria:You know, what we want to do is we, we, we want people to raise their floor. Okay. And by raising their floor, they would get what we would call earned resiliency. So one thing we would want people to get out of the class other than like an A and whatever it is that you're studying, you know, the this students and now, and, and, and, and the, and the professors and teacher would need to, you know, buy into that aspect of it. Right?
Christian Fauria:You know, the, the cowardly lion, right? They all get something. Tin Man got a brain, you know, all that stuff. You know, I forget who got what? Maybe he got a heart.
Christian Fauria:Tin Man got a heart. Scarecrow got a brain. The lion got the lion got courage. Right? Like, I would like them to leave the classroom what I would call earn resiliency, like a trait that they can literally take anywhere.
Christian Fauria:And I say earned because I got to put them through the process of failing and recovering and overcoming and recommitting and all that stuff. It's the human element that we have been talking about that we feel like is missing. And then what can I give them other than an A in broadcasting that would help them in life? And that's earned resiliency. It travels with you in anything that you do.
Christian Fauria:Right. So, and it's hard, but I feel like that's an element. And you do that by not shooting for the stars. You shoot it by raising your floor. So when you screw up or you fail, the fall isn't that bad.
Christian Fauria:Right? And even when you do fall, you're not falling off a cliff and you can still rebound and catch up to wherever you need to be. I feel like that's curious your thoughts on that. Well, what I'm hearing, and tell me if I'm on the
Bryan Dewsbury:right track here that this so learn resiliency, you know, if there is teaching a approach, right, that allows this to happen
Christian Fauria:Yeah.
Bryan Dewsbury:It sounds like what you're trying to develop is agnostic to the particular class you teach. Right? You wanna do something that, say, a professor in Middle East art and intro bio and senior seminar can do, that that in resiliency is sort of the core of the activity. Is it
Christian Fauria:Well, well, that would be you're still teaching biology. Right. Right. Right.
Bryan Dewsbury:It's not gonna take it over. Yeah. But but but there are things you can do to create that discomfort and raise the floor.
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think one thing that we really need to start thinking about, especially in today's world is assessment because we're constantly looking for the correct answer in higher education still. But what if we were looking for great thoughtful questions? What if instead we were looking for, okay, how did this move your thinking forward?
Constanza Bartholomae:Or, alright, here's how you thought things were gonna turn out. The opposite happened. What's your reflection at? What if we graded for that? Mhmm.
Constanza Bartholomae:And in the same way in educational development, what if we engage more metacognitively with our faculty and said, okay, you put your lesson plan in place. What did you get out of it? What did you notice? What didn't work? And those were the types of questions that we ask.
Bryan Dewsbury:So when back to the classroom, when you say what if we're graded for that? What does that look like?
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. I think we grade for the types of questions asked versus the output. I think we grade for process instead of end result. But I think we have to change how we evaluate for that too because students are told, okay, I've gotta get the right answer. What do I have to do to earn the grade?
Constanza Bartholomae:But what if we said, look at all of your quote unquote failures. How did they move you forward? Mhmm. Christian is currently dancing with his hand
Christian Fauria:Preach. In the how she gets this actually gets me going.
Bryan Dewsbury:I think
Christian Fauria:I might I love it.
Bryan Dewsbury:I think I might pick up a collection plate in a second. Yes.
Constanza Bartholomae:And what if we did that, you know, with our evaluations as well with faculty too? What did you learn from this process? Rather looking at them, you know, these scary things as we do sometimes, what if we said, okay, how many questions did you ask? How many times did your changing, did your way of thinking change? How many times did you have to pivot?
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. And that is what we assess students on.
Bryan Dewsbury:So so I'm gonna push you not to disagree, but to to maybe have you anticipate if if you haven't already gotten these kinds of questions. Right? One challenge I've found with higher ed, because you know me well enough to know that I concur with your line of thinking here. Right? But one challenge that I've run into with higher ed is that the assessment enterprise is set up for short term, short term value attribution, right?
Bryan Dewsbury:So what, the quiz you do next week, end of semester grade, the four year GPA, right? And I'm not saying these things are not valuable, right? But I am saying that some of the things that you're discussing, which again, do concur with, the the impacts of that on your life Mhmm. Tend to show up years and years and years down the road. Mhmm.
Bryan Dewsbury:And for this economic system, right, where you're constantly under the microscope to show that people can go into jobs and go into grad school and your alumni can do x y and z, right? I worry that universities feel so pressured to show these short term, we raise retention rates, etcetera. Again, valuable, but they don't have the mechanism set up to say, you know, because of this sort of curiosity based curriculum, our graduates went on and were happier adults in their forties and fifties and sixties. And you know what? That data set is actually out there.
Bryan Dewsbury:I don't know if you know the report that came out in 2012, great jobs, great lives, as a Puji Gallup. So the and you look at Raj Chetty's work from Harvard, the Opportunity Atlas project. So there actually are a few people around the country who study in this long term way. It hasn't been as pervasive as I'd like to see it. And so while I love and support what you're saying, I just want us to kind of collectively anticipate like, how do you make that case to people who are more short term weary?
Bryan Dewsbury:Does that make sense?
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. Well, I think, you know, if you look at the top skills that they've predicted are needed for 2030, curiosity, critical thinking. Right? How do we develop them? We need practice.
Constanza Bartholomae:So any good coach is going to tell you
Christian Fauria:Mhmm.
Constanza Bartholomae:Okay. We need to have repetition with this. We need to create the environment for this. But I hear you. It is a challenge.
Constanza Bartholomae:Right? How do we prove that this has meaning and value? I think we let the students speak for themselves.
Bryan Dewsbury:You know, actually, Christian, I'm gonna ask you this because you when I know you all won a national championship at University of Colorado.
Christian Fauria:In an eighth grade championship at at Our Lady of Lords Catholic High School in North Of California. Don't worry. Everybody forgets that one. We're gonna get Saint Mary's, like, 40 to 12.
Bryan Dewsbury:So you could you could pick either one. Right? But I'm pretty sure that not every single player on either team went on to have a successful career in the NFL.
Christian Fauria:Well, yes. True.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Right? Broadly. Yeah. And so if you're a coach, right, you know, as much as you want a lot of your alum to go on and and, you know, play for NFL teams, you know just statistically, right, some chunk of your players will do something else.
Bryan Dewsbury:Some might stay in professional sports in a different way, but some might go on to accounting school. Right? And some might go you know, so so there's a sense in which and I'm I'm gonna paraphrase a a coach, a basketball coach I heard once telling his team, like, I'm not just trying to, you know, train you to win a national championship. I want you to better be better husbands, better fathers, better community members. So you you can have a mindset where your goal for these kids are not just the sports related goals.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? And I'm curious if you could any of that type of coaching.
Christian Fauria:So, I mean, so my my my answer and and I wanna try to get to the heart. First of I like you a lot. Like, I like the fact that he constantly asks questions. Right? And we're not arguing.
Christian Fauria:We're just trying to get more information and get more knowledge. That I love. Of all the guys that played within college, let's say each year there's at that back in those days, there's maybe a 100 kids on a team.
Bryan Dewsbury:Mhmm.
Christian Fauria:Like, yeah, like 90 may at that time, Nebraska had a 123 kids on the Okay. Like, the this the numbers are lower now. They're in the eighties.
Bryan Dewsbury:Okay.
Christian Fauria:Based on scholarships and walk ons and college football is crazy anyways. So out of all those, all those kids, maybe six had a shot and out of the six, two had a long career. So the odds are very, very low that you'll make a career out of it. But I would say every time I go back and every time I see a guy who works in insurance, real estate, finance, and they are one of my teammates, we all talk and think the same regardless of what we're doing. So the impact that the coaches had on us, specifically our head coach case still resonates.
Christian Fauria:Yeah. And everything they do. And and think about it. That was four years, but you spent a lot of time with a much more than you spend with a, with a class in the semester. So the impact is what much greater.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Christian Fauria:So, so to my point is like the impact can be seen, should be felt if, if, no matter what you do, no matter what you do. And, and every time I listened to you, I'm talking to Constanza and I thought she did a great job expressing. I just feel like there's something more that we can give them when they leave. And I think it's that earned resiliency that that's it's, I feel like it's so valuable and it's so hard to get because you, nobody just gives it to you. I can't give you this.
Christian Fauria:Like you have to earn it. Well, well, how do I earn it? Well, listen, believe me, you'll figure it out. Like it'll, you'll just start collecting, you know, challenges and obstacles and this and that. And, and, and I, and again, like I told you the other day and I, I felt bad about it.
Christian Fauria:Like I gave out midterm participation grades and I gave, gave everybody crappy grades on purpose. I wanted to see how they responded. I wanted to see like who would, you know, try to make a comeback. I want to see who would ask me about it, who would challenge me about it, And then who would do something about it? And I would have a conversation with them, like promoted by them because they care.
Christian Fauria:Right. And, and out of the 25 kids in that one particular class, I probably had 10 and the other ones didn't say anything, but next thing you know, then we'll shut up. So I'm like, great. Right? They, they understand it.
Christian Fauria:Right? So I don't know, small little, you know, wins here and there. I hope build something bigger that's, and that's just kind of the way I'm wired and that's, but that's also what I value. So I push that agenda.
Bryan Dewsbury:Do you have this conversation explicitly with them?
Christian Fauria:First day of class. Very first day of class. I told her, I said, I'm going go a little, I'm going to, is this okay? Yeah. Right.
Christian Fauria:And, yeah, I had standards, values, expectations, you know, I I and I've I've reinforced it, like, all the time.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Yeah. So so to get back to my earlier question about improv. Right? Speaking of a place where it could be uncomfortable, Is is that part of the end result end resiliency project?
Bryan Dewsbury:Putting them in this space where you you have to come up with stuff.
Christian Fauria:What you're doing with me right now is earning me resiliency. What you just what you follow-up question that challenged her point of view. And she had to sit there. Okay. Get her grounding and then answer.
Christian Fauria:Right. She's a pro at that. Like she's unshakable in that way. And that's earned resiliency in my book, you know, because you're challenged me on my way of thinking and maybe I don't have it all hammered out yet. Maybe there's some flaws in it and I'm trying to noodle it down and tinker with it to kind of make it so it's clear so we can present it.
Christian Fauria:And so, yeah, that's it. It's an everyday conversations, I would say.
Bryan Dewsbury:The reason why I'm I'm I keep asking about the improv is because one of my earlier really positive impacts when I was an assistant professor was a professor of theater. Shout out to Judith Swift, University of Rhode Island. And my selfish thing was that I love theater just as a person who likes to go. Right? And, you know, I did a little bit when I was younger.
Bryan Dewsbury:But I I I love the sort of dynamism of of a room where there are people 20 feet from you, you know, trying to put on a performance and and tell a story, and there's there's kind of an intangible thing that I professionally understand, but what she explained to me was, you know, they're reading body language all the time. They're getting feedback from the audience, even if you're sitting there like perfectly still, right? And so she would take some of those principles and give me feedback on my teaching. And the reason why that was a little provocative is this was kind of the heyday of active learning becoming a big thing, which I'm totally on board with, right? But I think one of the unfortunate side effects of that is it kind of diminished the performative aspect of of teaching, and you as an individual being able to inspire and to motivate and to to not have to necessarily ask your questions to get feedback, but to be able to just sort of look at you and see how you're physically responding to this.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? And this is where, again, I love improv. Never done it, but, like, gone to actually see performances and see how you just have this random thing and you have to come up with a response to it. And even for seasoned actors, I can see they're still uncomfortable. And so I I I guess I thought, and tell me if I'm wrong about this, I thought that that intentional discomfort, it was a kind of a big key feature of the Earn Resiliency Project, if I can call it that.
Constanza Bartholomae:I love that you call it that, first
Christian Fauria:of all.
Bryan Dewsbury:Framework ERP.
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. I mean, learning is uncomfortable. Yeah. Learning is not comfortable. Learning comes with stress, and students think about stress.
Constanza Bartholomae:And sometimes we think about stress as being a bad thing. But to the point that Christian just made about challenging our way of thinking, we should have to sit with it. It shouldn't be that we just have these because life doesn't work like that. The answers to everything just come to us and appear no. And sometimes we have to be proven wrong, but that's learning as well.
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. So I think improv helps. I mean, gosh, again, like, no one could have predicted the last ten years in higher education. Good. If there's anything we need to be, it's adaptable.
Constanza Bartholomae:And improv, I think, is one of the best tools. We actually had someone come and do an improv workshop for faculty this fall. Uh-huh. I still have folks talking about it. They're like, this has helped me so much in the classroom.
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. I think the experience you're describing, first of all, sometime I'd love to hear more about it. Because having difficult conversations is something that we know faculty, not just here at Bryant, but, know, across the nation are wondering how to do better Right. Because they care. How do I be more adaptable when I'm not sure what the situation in front of me is going to be or when I'm not sure what the question, you know, I might be asked is.
Constanza Bartholomae:Gosh. I mean, could all benefit.
Christian Fauria:So let me just I don't I don't know if you remember, but my my first syllabus, my first class that I ever taught here, I brought in an improv professional. And we did a, we did, we did a whole, yeah, we did a whole thing. It was crazy. It was like, I'm a tree. It wasn't like that.
Christian Fauria:It was, it was, it was, it was interesting. It was interesting, you know? And, and then, and that was the point. The point was to remove your insecurities, you know? And, and I was trying to teach them like from a broadcasting point of view, like you can't care what people think about you as you're giving your opinion or your stand up.
Christian Fauria:You can't, you can't internalize people making fun of you or they think you're stupid. Like you have to be okay in your own skin. Like it's part of the skill that you will pick up by learning to be, you know, in broadcasting because everybody's got an opinion and, you know, they don't like what you say or how you say it. So, and that was that exercise, you know, the improvisation, but it always it always goes back to what we kind of figured is is this, you know, metal that you would achieve, you know, by just going through basic training.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right. Right. Yeah. As you as you're describing that, I'm thinking about, like, again, I watch way too much sports and I I do enjoy actually the analysis of people who kind of, you know, play the game and stuff. And and I actually noticed their body language, right?
Bryan Dewsbury:I'm sure they're taught to look intently at the other person when they're giving their take or whatever. Feel like I could oversee the training happening, but anyway, that that's on a side. What I wanna get back to, and I brought up this earlier about takes, right? Takes? Yeah.
Bryan Dewsbury:I'm I'm using that term.
Christian Fauria:I don't
Bryan Dewsbury:know if it's an official term, but it's a term that I've I've seen or heard used a lot in the in the sports casting.
Christian Fauria:Oh, like a hot take?
Bryan Dewsbury:Oh, yeah. It doesn't it doesn't even have to be
Christian Fauria:a hot take. Yeah. But I get it.
Bryan Dewsbury:But it's essentially your opinion.
Christian Fauria:Right? And, like, you know, we would call it a lead. We would call it, like, you know, what's on tap. We would call it a take. Like Right.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right. We'll we'll we'll repeat I want to reserve the right for me to be like, yeah, we probably weren't watching the same game. Right? Like, I I don't wanna just be a a a uncritical consumer of what I'm hearing. Right?
Bryan Dewsbury:And and I'm curious if in without knowing your syllabus, if there's any of that kind of back and forth that you talk to your students about. And the reason why I ask is that it it does get into to critical consciousness. It gets into you know, they're gonna grow up in a world where they have people summarizing complex wars in five minutes, and if they don't have that critical mindset, they might just take that opinion and go to a cocktail party or a sports bar and just repeat it because Christian said it nice and loud, right, kind of thing. So I wonder how much of that how much of that dialogue is taught or or discussed even? I'm not I'm All not
Christian Fauria:the time. Mhmm. We lead with it. I've we lead we do something in my broadcast. We would go, what's your lead?
Christian Fauria:Mhmm. Okay. And you're and then we have another thing where we I call it dueling banjos. Where we have, where we, I create, I create a list of, and I give it to them the first day of classes. It's I call the love hate list.
Christian Fauria:And it's simple stuff like Dunkin' Donuts or Starbucks or, you know, 8AM classes, things that they should really have a opinion on. Right. And they would love it or hate it so they could defend it. And then I pair them up and there's a little competition. You love Dunkin' Donuts.
Christian Fauria:She hates it. Okay. Now we're gonna have a little debate. And and they don't do very well at it. You know, they don't do well very well at, but I mean, but that's fine.
Christian Fauria:Yeah. Because the one, one night, then once we talk about like, listen, because we are trying to get them to think for themselves and, but more importantly, not be afraid to share their opinion of it even if it's wrong. Who cares if it's wrong? I don't care if it's wrong. Like, I'm I'm looking for a performance is what I'm looking for.
Bryan Dewsbury:And Especially the defending Yeah.
Christian Fauria:And I want it to make sense. I want it's gotta make sense. Like, so many times like, dude, all you did is repeat what they said, you know, and, you know, and or we start with something uncomfortable, like an uncomfort and we go through the whole room. Mhmm. Right?
Christian Fauria:And, and so I think that answered your question, but yeah, we, we do that all the time. You have to, I have to do it.
Bryan Dewsbury:How do the students respond? Not to, not to that activity, but to, to the entire lean resilience that you're bringing to the classroom.
Christian Fauria:Some of them give up, Some of them give up. They just either because they're frustrated with it. And, but others lean in, they lean into it. And I'd be
Bryan Dewsbury:curious to hear from them. I mean, you don't have to go and ask them now, but the ones who leaned in, lent in, I can't remember. Yeah. Do you have any kind of like reflection at the end of the semester when they kind of think back through on what that leaning in was like for them and what it taught them? I'd be I don't know.
Bryan Dewsbury:What would I do with violating FUPA.
Christian Fauria:I would love to read that. I would ask I would ask you, like, if I wanted to do that, I don't really know how could I do that? Yes.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Of course, you could do that.
Christian Fauria:And then how how would I do it?
Bryan Dewsbury:You are in a live consultation session.
Christian Fauria:Know. Alright. We'll wait till we're done.
Bryan Dewsbury:No. No. No. Concern. Go go go
Constanza Bartholomae:for it. I mean, I think
Christian Fauria:Because that that would isn't that weird though? No. No. Tell me if you like me or not. Hey.
Christian Fauria:I'm gonna stand right in front of you as you write down your notes.
Constanza Bartholomae:But that's but that's not the question. The question is, where did you struggle in this course?
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Constanza Bartholomae:What happened as you were going through that? And looking back, you know, maybe you do like a first day kind of like take and then a last day kind of take or not. Say looking back, you know, throughout this course here, your syllabus here, all the topics that we covered, you know, what was the most uncomfortable thing, you know, for you in this course? Where are you now with it? It's it's those reflective questions that you ask.
Christian Fauria:Oh, I like that.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. I'll give you just another example. So I teach in Drew Bio. The last they do three reflections kinda initial, midline, and then they're all different. And the last one is called Letter to a Future First Year Student.
Bryan Dewsbury:And so they write a one page letter, it's a hypothetical future first year student. Based on your successes and challenges this semester, how would you advise that person to navigate this semester? So essentially, it's a roundabout way of asking them to reflect on what went well, what didn't go well.
Christian Fauria:And it is like I like the way you did that.
Bryan Dewsbury:Like they're writing a did a former self. Like if you went back to September 5, you know,
Constanza Bartholomae:when We were you thinking the same thing. I was saying, have them write a letter to their first day self.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah.
Constanza Bartholomae:Telling them what they learned throughout the course of the semester as you were saying that. Yeah.
Christian Fauria:See, this is great stuff. This is the stuff I'm like, wow, that's a great idea. We're totally gonna steal this. Like that this is the type
Bryan Dewsbury:of It's not theft. I know, but it
Christian Fauria:is it is such a valuable like recommendation like that. Would listen, I don't act like I know, you know, as much as I should know about teaching at this point in my life. So I'm still like trying to be like a sponge to try to but that would be I would love to read those.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We should we should talk more about that. Okay.
Bryan Dewsbury:I wanna get you all out are you waiting to say something else? Nope. I wanna get you all out of here on this one. What's next for ERP? Notice how I use the acronym.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah.
Christian Fauria:I know. It's official
Constanza Bartholomae:when there's a higher ed acronym.
Christian Fauria:I know. Right?
Bryan Dewsbury:That's the only way it's
Christian Fauria:working. If I had, I was like, what does the e stand for?
Constanza Bartholomae:You can tell this is being recorded in the morning. We need more coffee.
Christian Fauria:I would say what's next is, one, I would like for us to define it simply.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah.
Christian Fauria:And then start with the the raising the floor because that's the first aspect. You can't earn it unless you constantly raise your four, explain that, and then try to build, you know, a teaching platform off that without this is me without even talking to her. You know? And then and then and then teach other professors how to implement and then convince them. I think this is a keyword.
Christian Fauria:Mhmm. Convince them that this is a good addition to their curriculum or their syllabus.
Constanza Bartholomae:Yeah. I mean, I think, first of all, we need to normalize coaching. As I was saying earlier, needs a coach. Mhmm. And to your point that you made, at the beginning of this conversation, it doesn't necessarily need to be someone in higher education or within your field.
Constanza Bartholomae:Right? Some of the best advice that I get about what I do is actually from my husband who has never stepped foot in the higher education setting. Right? Mhmm. He's like, why are you doing this?
Constanza Bartholomae:Explain it to me. And then I have to, you know, actually do the work that I do with others at home. It's great. But I think, normalizing that idea for faculty and for students. And I think for faculty, it's almost even more important.
Constanza Bartholomae:Students are here, they're in the classroom. They know that we're going to ask them to learn, but we need to push that on on faculty a little bit more as well. But we also have to show them why and how it works. What
Christian Fauria:was that your mic drop? You just dropped the mic. You literally dropped Here it comes. Yes.
Bryan Dewsbury:Well, selfishly would this is why I asked. Right? Because I can I can see you all at pod presenting this? I can see that. And that's why I was pushing the agnostic curriculum thing because Mhmm.
Bryan Dewsbury:You know, there's there's subject matter expertise that is necessary, like, students need to learn all the technicalities of what goes in sports broadcasting.
Constanza Bartholomae:Right? Sure.
Bryan Dewsbury:But but Christian, both of you have identified that when you have the pleasure and privilege of having students, you have an opportunity to impact their lives in profound ways besides just knowing stuff. And that's what a good coach does, that's what a good good teacher does, what a good professor does. I'm so glad you're here to help us see that link more clearly. Wow.
Christian Fauria:That was really good closing. It was great. And I love the fact that you use stuff. Right? Because it's just stuff seems like very basic and elementary and like, oh, how dare he use stuff?
Christian Fauria:He should be more descriptive with his words. He's a professor.
Constanza Bartholomae:But you know what? I think the soft skills, the the the essence of the stuff, even though it seems like we should know it, the essence of the stuff. See? It seems like we should know it. I think to your point earlier, Brian, we need to make it explicit.
Constanza Bartholomae:We need
Bryan Dewsbury:to make it explicit.
Constanza Bartholomae:And we need to think about what we do implicitly that shows to our students, to our colleagues explicitly as well. It's the most important stuff out of all the stuff.
Bryan Dewsbury:Hey, thanks to both of you.
Christian Fauria:Well, this has been great. Thank you for flying out here. Thanks thanks for giving us the opportunity. It was fun.
Bryan Dewsbury:This was
Christian Fauria:a of fun. Can do this for at least another three hours.
Constanza Bartholomae:He's ready.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. My my plane wouldn't feel good. I know.
Christian Fauria:Alright. Alright.
Bryan Dewsbury:Alright. No.
Christian Fauria:I love you. This is I'm shutting this down in 03/21.
Bryan Dewsbury:Knowledge Unbound is brought to you by the Rios Institute. We are funded by the William and Flora Hewlett foundation. Special thanks to our guests today Constanza Bartholomae from Bryant University faculty developer, interim director of their teaching and learning center. Christian Fauria, professor in residence at Branch University teaching sports broadcasting, sharing some knowledge, sharing some wisdom, and maybe even hopefully collaborating with both of them in the future on some of the things we talked about. Our producer, mister Segev.
Bryan Dewsbury:Brian. When last did you well, you did I was gonna say when last did you interview a a major sports figure. I guess there are two things wrong with that statement. He's right now, he's a professor in residence, so maybe it's not fair to call him that. But, b, you weren't there.
Bryan Dewsbury:So I guess that makes it a big lie. But but you did you did listen to the interview.
Christian Fauria:I did.
Bryan Dewsbury:And you said you found him interesting. Why?
Christian Fauria:I like to say it's more about his humanity, how he emphasized hustling, his handling of rejection, and just being open about the mistakes and the failures he's had in
Bryan Dewsbury:his life. And I feel that a lot
Christian Fauria:of people, especially young people nowadays, they they're always taught, like, hey. Don't show any weakness. Don't be weak. Just power through it.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yada yada yada. And it's
Christian Fauria:just sometimes it's okay to remind yourself that you're human.
Bryan Dewsbury:But it I I I am having a little chuckle as you using the phrase young people nowadays. You are half my age, sir.
Christian Fauria:I may be a 45 year old in a 25 year old's body. Whatever you wanna make of that.
Bryan Dewsbury:I do I do agree with you, though. I do agree about being open about rejection and and and to be you know, I chuckle yes, but at the same time, it I do appreciate that you saw that, and I hope that the younger audience who listen to this podcast get that message as well that failure is sort of part of the journey, and it's it's value is in what you learn from it. Right? Lot of things to learn from today's conversation. I I I just wanna maybe put a plug in for that discussion we had on on earned resilience.
Bryan Dewsbury:It doesn't come easy. It's not meant to, and because, you know, those of us who do learning science understand that's where the best learning takes place. So I I hope in your classrooms today, this week, the rest of the semester, you find opportunities to give your students chances to earn resilience. Have a great week. Be excellent to each other.
Constanza Bartholomae:First, we have to, you know, in each moment, as you just said so beautifully, make people feel seen. And we have to really understand who they are in order to make them feel seen. What do I mean by that? If a student, you know, runs up to me across campus, I wanna acknowledge that I know who they are. Mhmm.
Constanza Bartholomae:Because I think if folks don't feel comfortable having that, you know, question moment with you where they're asking something of you, if they don't feel comfortable being vulnerable in that state of curiosity, then we're doing something wrong.
Christian Fauria:I would like them to leave the classroom what I would call earned resiliency. Like a trait that they can literally take anywhere. And I say earned because I gotta put them through the process of failing and recovering and overcoming and recommitting and all that stuff. It's the human element that we have been talking about that we feel like is missing. Then what can I give them other than an A in broadcasting broadcasting that that would would help them in life?
Christian Fauria:And that's earned resiliency. It travels with you in anything that you do.