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Real Conversations for Real New Mexicans.
The Chile Wire with Abe Baldonado. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Chile Wire. This week, I have a special guest with me. He is my brother, Vince Torres.
Abe Baldonao:Vince, welcome to The Chile Wire.
Vince Torres:It's great to be with you, buddy.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. Absolutely. Well, we're going have a lot to talk about today. I got to break you into the Chile Wire, though. I got to ask you, red or green?
Vince Torres:You know what? For the longest time in my life, I was a Christmas guy, and then a older gentleman who sells Chile near the Santuario in Chimayo, which is close to where I grew up, pulled me aside one day and said, that's how you actually ruin the flavor of both chilies. He said, don't ever order Christmas, and he convicted me enough that now I do a little bit of both, but separate, so red
Abe Baldonao:and green. Red and green. Do you order it on the side?
Vince Torres:No. Never. Okay. Cool. I'm New Mexican.
Abe Baldonao:Alright. Cool. Just had to establish that. Vince, I want to start off. You just started a new podcast called The Bully Pulpit.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. It's already taking off, but I would love for our folks to learn more about what inspired you to start this, and also just give a little bit of background because it is a Christian based podcast.
Vince Torres:Yeah. You know, I'm a pastor. It's one of the jobs that I do. You and I also have the pleasure
Abe Baldonao:Many hats.
Vince Torres:Of working together on several other things, but one of the things that I've seen over the years is so many faithful pastors right here in New Mexico speaking boldly, speaking courageously, speaking truth, speaking righteousness, speaking the scripture, again, faithfully for many, many, many years. They don't have millions of followers on social media. Some of them pastor big churches, but some of them pastor smaller churches. But what's been interesting is in in the day of social media, which obviously the Chile Wire is a big part of that, you have these incredible voices, guys like pastor Josh Howerton, pastor Philip Anthony Mitchell, just two of the more, you know, common names that maybe a lot of folks know, and they've been using their platforms to to speak to some of the most pressing cultural issues of our day, and I'm so thankful for them. I'm I'm appreciative that they are utilizing their God given platform for that purpose.
Vince Torres:But it got me thinking, man, we have some local faithful voices, that again don't have that platform, but they've been faithful. And they speak to these issues constantly, and they've been properly pastoring and shepherding their people well. So I thought how cool would it be to complement the works of some of these bigger pastors, who have large followings to just have a podcast that features some of our locally grown New Mexico pastors who also have a lot to say on this issue. So we kicked off our inaugural episode a couple weeks ago with my pastor, who pastors at my church, Carlos Montoya. I just, you know, wrapped up an incredible podcast with pastor Michael Hendrix from Metamorphic Church, which is right here in Albuquerque, and again, we're just gonna tackle some of the cultural hot topics of the day that maybe you don't necessarily hear a lot about on a Sunday morning, but you're hearing them being talked about throughout the week, and so I think it's more important to hear what the pulpits and the pastors and the word of God has to say than just what the political pundits are talking about throughout the weeks on TV.
Vince Torres:So that's what we hope to do. That's amazing. And how important is this to followers of Christianity? You know, I think about the congregation of many of these churches to now get them thinking about these things. When they go to the ballot box, I know you and pastor Carlos Montoya talked a
Abe Baldonao:lot about, you know, Christians getting involved in politics. And you know, right now I think there's a segment of America that is afraid of Christians starting to rise up and say, hey, you know what? We're not going to tolerate this anymore. We're going to say something. And you know, and I've had conversations with folks, and I'd love to get your perspective on this because, you know, we constantly hear...
Abe Baldonao:People always use the term, well, separation of church and state. Well, the true definition of church... The separation of church and state was created to keep government out of the church. That's Not the opposite. It never said that churches couldn't be outspoken about government decisions.
Abe Baldonao:It was saying that the churches are a protected group from government, and that was how it was established. But I'd love for you to just elaborate on that because I'm seeing now that people are using that, oh, well, churches shouldn't be involved in politics, you know, the separation of church and state. I'm like, that's not
Vince Torres:the correct definition of that term, though. Well, know, it's it's interesting because as the Democrats have started to run toward religion instead of away from it, that conversation and that narrative is gonna be very, very hard for them to back up moving forward. Yeah. These are people who just showed up in droves to support pastor James Talarico, a progressive, you know, Christian over in Texas. Many of them, you know, showed up in droves to support Al Syed over in one of our other battleground states, and I think that just that alone is gonna kind of jeopardize their ability to have that conversation moving forward, because when Al Syed talks about the Quran, they applaud.
Vince Torres:Yeah. When Talarico speaks from the Bible, they applaud. And so I think it's really got me in a place where I think we can be honest and have a conversation that it was never really about keeping the church and the state separate. It was really about keeping true biblical Christianity out of the public sphere. That's what they've always been after.
Vince Torres:So I don't think they can argue separation of church and state anymore given the people that they are increasingly electing, you know, across the country. So I think let's just call it what it is. You don't want Christian influence in the public square. It's not separation of church and state. It's separation of biblical Christianity and public policy.
Vince Torres:Absolutely. Well, you know, all I can think about, brother, are
Abe Baldonao:you a big Johnny Cash fan by chance?
Vince Torres:Oh, yeah.
Abe Baldonao:I love Johnny Cash, but, you know, I remember when he told Bob Dylan, for anyone who is looking for truth, it always ends with Jesus. That's right. And I I just think about that, and I think about your podcast, The Bully Pulpit, I hope more folks get out and listen to it because I think it's something this state absolutely needs. There's nothing like it in this state. So to bring faith leaders from across our state to share their views, their values, and talk about these issues, I think is very critical because I think over the next four years, we're going to have to have a lot more conversation about these issues.
Abe Baldonao:And looking at where our state's going, you know, there's going to be a lot of issues that we're going to have to challenge and get upfront with. And so to hear faith leaders start talking about... And hopefully it motivates their followers to say, hey, you know what? I'm aware now. Like, this isn't okay.
Abe Baldonao:Well, I think one of
Vince Torres:the things that's been interesting to me having pastored now for many years in Santa Fe, by the way, which is a deeply, deeply blue, some would say very liberal city, you know, as far as its political reputation, but the message that I've consistently received from the people at my church at Blaise Christian Fellowship is we want to hear more about this, not less. It's been very, very rare that I've had anybody come up to me, either that it's part of my church or part of the Christian community, and chastise me for touching on some of the political and cultural issues. It's been the exact opposite. It's been people lining up in droves to say, give us more of this content. We need more.
Vince Torres:We're hearing throughout the week. We're being pastored throughout the week, you know, by the politicians and the pundits and everybody else who has something that they want to say on this issue, but we wanna know what does the Bible have to say? Right. What does the church have to say on this? And so I I agree with you.
Vince Torres:I hope it's I hope it's a call to the church in general and to pastors and leaders not only across New Mexico, but across this country to recognize where the battleground is, and we're starting to see that many of these political issues, and I put those in quotes, are increasingly becoming more spiritual, and you've And culturally. Well, you've heard me say this before, you know, whenever somebody says, you know, the church is getting too political. For years, I've been saying no, our politics are getting more spiritual. Right. There's a big difference there, and when our politics become spiritual, that is the battleground in which the church has to play.
Vince Torres:That's why we exist. Absolutely. Well, and going back to... I was thinking about, you know, talking about Blue Santa Fe, but looking at Santa Fe's long, long standing Christian roots.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. Right? I mean...
Vince Torres:The city of Holy Faith,
Abe Baldonao:I mean,
Vince Torres:in our very name. Right?
Abe Baldonao:Yeah.
Vince Torres:It's it's... You know, we we spend... I I have the privilege of at least once a month, when my schedule allows, gathering with the pastors of Santa Fe to pray over the city at the Cross Of The Martyrs, you know, which overlooks the entire city. So it's it's hard to it's hard to come to Santa Fe and not recognize all of the the faith and spiritual components that are there. It's just been unfortunate that for quite some time, our politics haven't necessarily reflected that.
Abe Baldonao:Right. Well, and I think it's even more powerful, man, as I think about where Cross Of The Martyrs is, it's really on the foothills of the Sangha De Cristo Mountains. Again, just strong Christian, you know, centered area Yeah. That's like, hey, this is who we are. And, you know, I I, as a Catholic, I'm hoping more Catholics listen into your podcast and it resonates because I think our Catholic churches could do a lot better in talking about a lot of these issues from a biblical standpoint and not being afraid to, you know, get some people mad because, you know, you may get some people mad when you start talking about some of these issues, but I hope many Catholics like myself get involved and they listen.
Abe Baldonao:And I think this will be a good avenue. Again, we're all Christians,
Vince Torres:so
Abe Baldonao:it'll just be good to have someone talk about these issues and hearing from other faith leaders, and who knows, man? Maybe we'll get some priests on your show. That's right. Maybe we'll get them to have a conversation.
Vince Torres:Yeah, absolutely. Over the years, you know, as you know, I've done a lot of work in public policy and have helped build coalitions in the faith community, and the Catholic Church has been a faithful participant in so many of those fights, pro life issues, biblical sexual ethic and marriage, all sorts of things that we've addressed over the years. In fact, I would say that if it weren't for the Catholic Church, we might not still be having a lot of those conversations because, as you'll recall, you know, going back to the sixties and the days of Roe v. Wade, most of the mainline Protestant denominations were on the wrong side of the issue, and it really was the Catholic Church that kept the sanctity of life issue at the forefront of our public policy conversation. So over the years, I had the privilege of working very, very closely with several deacons and some of our local priests, one senior Voorhees, who's right here in Albuquerque, who have been faithful voices, you know, for the unborn and many other issues.
Vince Torres:So, yeah, absolutely.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. That'd be wonderful. Well, I want to get... What's your take, man? We we just finished up a big election.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. How how are you feeling? You know? And I'll I'll let you know how I'm feeling about it. I'd love to just get your temperature check and some of your key takeaways from from that election.
Vince Torres:Well, you and I had the privilege of talking extensively about this leading up to it. Yeah. And I think at some level, we were right, and then at other levels we were just completely wrong and off. There's no way to sugarcoat the fact that conservatives and Republicans took a shellacking last week. Yeah.
Vince Torres:And anybody who tries to, you know, convince you otherwise is just not being honest about what's before us. And let's be honest, if going to make some progress and we're going to grow and learn from this, we have to acknowledge, you know, what happened last week. At the same time, I am always, always quick to remind folks that the political winds shift dramatically. They blow hard one way, and then within two years, they blow hard another way, and this is one of the greatest examples of this. Many of the demographics, many of the political voting blocks that swung heavy this cycle helped propel President Trump back into the White House just two years ago.
Vince Torres:And so what I think it also reminds us is that the electorate is very fickle. Mhmm. And I think one thing we've talked about is there is one voter action that has stood the test of time, and that is the tendency for them to vote their wallets. Yeah. They vote their wallets.
Vince Torres:That is one thing that people consistently do, and so I think this was just as much a referendum, if you will, on the state of affordability and our economy and some other things as it was anything else, but let's be honest, it was a tough night, and one of the things that I think I particularly found troubling, and you and I were talking a little bit earlier about this, was just how we saw the church really pull back this cycle, you know, after having a major impact in the last election really pull back, and we can get into it a little bit if you'd like on some of the specific data points, but the church didn't show up this go round, and I don't say that as a blanket statement, but I'm saying disproportionately less, you know, than they did two years ago, and let's be honest, the church, specifically the evangelical, you know, Catholic base makes up such a huge part of any Republican or conservative coalition that if you lose that or those folks don't show up, you're toast. Yeah. It doesn't matter what the rest of it looks like. There's such a core component of your base that if they stay home, or as some of the data would suggest, if they actually do show up and vote against you, you're screwed.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. You're doing something wrong. It's time for you to reflect for sure. And I would love to get into it because, you know, I think a lot of it is definitely wallet, and you and I talked about this a little bit. How much does character matter?
Abe Baldonao:And I think character really matters. I think voters are really looking at who is running, what do they stand for, and do their moral... Does their moral compass and their convictions align with mine? And if they don't, I think people are just getting tired of being pitted into this corner of pick your poison. And I think they're saying, you know what?
Abe Baldonao:I'm not touching either of them. I'm not picking any of those poisons and I may just stay home. Or to send a message, I'm going to vote for the very bad poison because of, you know, my wallet right now is hurting when I go to the fuel pumps. And I just want to make note though, like our economy right now is doing really good. Yeah.
Abe Baldonao:You know, and I think a lot of times when voters are voting, they're thinking my personal economy is rough right And I think we need to establish between the two because for... You know, I've had conversations with friends who say the economy is bad. And I'm like, is it though because my four zero one k portfolio is doing pretty good right now. The stock market is doing real good. And then right after election night, some of the hottest job numbers came out that, you know, hey, we...
Abe Baldonao:People are getting jobs. America's booming. We're open for business. And so, again, those are the things that to me I look at and that's how I judge my economy. And I know not every New Mexican does that, but I I really want New Mexicans to really look at the data.
Abe Baldonao:Go... If you want to know where the economy really is and compare it, go go to the consumer price index. You know, you can find out where we are as far as inflation goes. And if you look at CPI right now, I mean, it's healthy inflation and there's a thing called healthy inflation.
Vince Torres:Like,
Abe Baldonao:you're never going to stop inflation, it's always going to be there, but how do you keep it at healthy levels where, yeah, obviously things are going to tend to get a little bit more expensive, but can we keep them in a range where it's healthy that, you know, hey, our workforce, our unemployment numbers, everything is keeping up with that inflation. But right now energy was the highest and it's because, yeah, you know, we we have this conflict in Iran and it did skyrocket gas prices. But we need to look at that as a 2,000... As as a 30,000 foot view rather than a 2,000 foot view. And that's what I've been trying to tell people.
Abe Baldonao:I'm like, hey, I know you're looking at this right now like, oh, this is a bad decision. Well, it may seem like that right now, but the 30,000 foot picture is maybe we get Iran to never have a nuclear weapon. Maybe we end the reign of the number one state sponsor of terror. And that to me is worth a short time frame of elevated gas prices. If we can cut the head off the snake that sponsors terrorism and really sponsors cultures that want to undermine the fabric of our nation, then I'm okay with that.
Abe Baldonao:If it's going to protect Americans here domestically and overseas, I mean, that to me is far worth the cost.
Vince Torres:Well, I think you just did a better job selling that than most of the pundits over the last several months in Washington DC. That sort of forward thinking that you're describing isn't necessarily a natural voter attitude.
Abe Baldonao:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:You know, not not many voters are as engaged as you and I are, and I don't say that to to take a shot at them.
Abe Baldonao:Say because
Vince Torres:we we live in this. Right? We we... This is what people pay us to do. We're we're paid to be deep into the numbers, into the data, but your ordinary New Mexican who doesn't wake up and look up the CPI index and doesn't bother to think about what a nuclear capable Iran may look like two, four, six years from now, what they are doing is they're filling up their gas tank in the morning.
Vince Torres:Mhmm. They're stopping by the grocery store, and so, again, the ability to detach the immediate, you know, from the future is tough for a
Abe Baldonao:lot of folks.
Vince Torres:And I think one of the other things that we see, even just as we saw that younger demographic swing hard the other way, and and they would say affordability and the economy were major, major issues for them, I think one of the other things that we have to acknowledge is a lot of those young people, they're just coming out of high school, they're just coming out of college, where everything you're describing is actually the baseline for them. Yeah. They never saw the improvement that you and I saw Right. As guys in our forties because they weren't in the workforce yet. Yeah.
Vince Torres:They weren't paying what we were paying for eggs under Joe Biden. Right. And so now that eggs are significantly lower, we're happy about it. Yeah. But that's just the baseline for
Abe Baldonao:But for them, they're expensive.
Vince Torres:That's what they just started paying, you know, a month ago or whenever they actually started buying their own groceries. And so, again, I think that's also part of the voter education tools. We need to convince folks. We need to talk to them about the importance of looking back and looking at the progress that's been made and be a little bit more forward thinking in in how we how we process our elections and who we wanna support moving forward. So I agree with you on that.
Vince Torres:I just think that it's really, really tough for people to detach their current reality from their voting habit, and that's something that I think we saw this particular cycle in a real big way.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. Well, one thing I can say is one side really knows how to appeal to the emotions, and a lot of voters are driven emotionally. And, you know, again, like we saw it now with a lot of these ballot measures, you know, like the bonds that passed, the constitutional amendment four. I ain't going to lie, man. I'm sad about the pocket veto.
Abe Baldonao:I'm like, man, if I were a governor, I would love to have that pocket veto. Now I have to list out why I vetoed any bill or didn't sign any bill. And the problem with that, man, that I think that we're going to run into is that any bill not acted upon by the governor or given a message to why it was vetoed automatically becomes law. Mhmm. And that could be a pathway to some very bad policy if, you know, just some balls are dropped and things fall through the cracks.
Abe Baldonao:I mean, we name it. We know they do. Many bills are passed each year. And so if you fail to act on one that potentially has dire consequences, man, we could be setting ourselves up for some bad legislation getting through. But again, just thinking about our electorate now, you know, how can we give them more information?
Abe Baldonao:I think what we're doing right now is one way, but I think there needs to be other avenues for New Mexicans to be well informed. And I think right now, there's a lot of misinformation out there.
Vince Torres:Lots. Lots. And I think that's one of the difficult things to navigate, even as we scroll our social media platforms, is just to discern what's actually true, what's been fabricated, what's been exaggerated, and what's just a flat out lie, and there's plenty of all of that across the spectrum. I also think that it's very, very natural, even based on the algorithms, for our social media presence to become very isolated into echo chambers in which it's simply feeding us stuff that it thinks we want to hear. So there's very little challenging going on to a position that we may hold.
Vince Torres:It's reinforcing everything that we believe. And so all that to say no magic potion to that. It's gonna take a little bit more work, you know? And I get up in the morning, and yes, I scroll social media, but I also have reputable news sources that I will scour. And when I'm presented with a story or when someone sends me something, my immediate eye is always critical.
Vince Torres:I don't care who it comes from. Yeah. If it comes from someone on the other side or someone from our side, my immediate critical eye tells me this might not be true. Yeah. And let's be honest, maybe that's not how everybody processes things.
Vince Torres:They just take it and they receive and they repost it and they share it and they like it, and next thing you know, they've taken it and they've taken something that's a lie, and they've run with it and made it truth. So I do think moving forward, we do have to have more, you know, factually based, fact checked voter registration, voter information, voter election resources available to folks, but I'm also not going to negate the responsibility of every voter to do your own homework. Mhmm. Figure it out. If you walk into the voting booth on election day and you're confused about judges or bonds or constitutional amendments, why didn't you do your homework?
Vince Torres:Yeah. And I'm being straightforward on this, and it sounds tough because it is. Why didn't you do your homework? There were constitutional amendments that changed New Mexico State constitution, and you're telling me that the first time that you saw them was when you flipped over your ballot on election day. Do a little bit of research ahead of time, and the same goes for any candidate that you support.
Vince Torres:So they align with your political party. Who cares? Are they a person of character? Are they a person of integrity? What's their voting history look like?
Vince Torres:What have they done in their private life? Have they done anything else outside of politics? You know? Have they been successful? Have they run a business?
Vince Torres:Have they done anything? Again, those are all questions that we have ample time to ask and to answer long before election day comes around.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. You know, I had someone ask me about judicial retention. They're like, what do you do? I was like, I vote no on all of them, Republican or Democrat. And they're like, why?
Abe Baldonao:I was like, because I... Again, I I don't think judges should just be retained that way to serve on the bench. I think there should be some accountability. There should be some sort of judicial accountability report that goes out that shows how the judges ruled and that, hey, you just don't get a chance to stay on the bench because it's election time and voters just say yes, retain them or no. For me, I'm like, no.
Abe Baldonao:I'm like, what did you do? You know? And what what did those rulings look like? And so... And on principle, I'll just always vote no.
Abe Baldonao:Like even if... I I just don't like the judicial retention process. I... That's just me. Mhmm.
Abe Baldonao:Our judges need some accountability. I I think New Mexicans need resources to show how a lot of these judges are ruling in many cases. And a lot of times you will see that we have very inefficient judges in their rulings. We talk about crime and public safety, a lot of our revolving doors because a lot of these judges... And sometimes maybe their hands are tied with poor laws that are written.
Abe Baldonao:A lot of times it's the pulpiticito mentality, rather, you know, we feel sorry for the criminal rather than the victim. And, you know, I recently had Rep Chavez in here and, you know, she's been pulling teeth ever since she got into the legislature to reform a lot of these laws that she dealt with personally. Like, that her own situation had to see at the forefront like, hey, these laws are actually a felony. You're telling me that these people who killed my child now are getting away with it. And it's just...
Abe Baldonao:It's very unfortunate. And she's tried to rectify a lot of that, yet it's fallen on deaf ears in the legislature and it's unfortunate. And so that type of accountability matters. And again, I think you're spot on. Why aren't New Mexicans doing their homework?
Abe Baldonao:And look, I understand, man. We are... We're a struggling state. I understand that we have families out there that are, you know, single parent families that are probably working multiple jobs. I don't expect you to be a policy expert.
Abe Baldonao:It's simple though. Ask a friend. Ask a family member, you know, shoot, reach out to The Chile Wire. If you want to know, reach out to Vince at the bully pulpit if yeah. There's something Just, you know, ask some questions, you know.
Abe Baldonao:And as a former government and civics teacher, it it it aches my heart, man, when I see that our electorate has been so misinformed and has not been given the tools necessary to decide, okay, what's factual, what's actually a lie,
Vince Torres:you know, what's AI? Yeah. You know? And what happens in that situation is the political parties, the political consultants, the media, they play off of that lack of information. Yeah.
Vince Torres:They get you tied up into literally a position where you may make a decision on the last radio ad that you hear on the way to the polls. Mhmm. Like that last sound bite that you hear. And I think that one of the other things that it's particularly been unfortunate here in New Mexico is that has allowed our local elections to largely be dictated by things that are happening in Washington, DC. Absolutely.
Vince Torres:And I think you see a lot of that every cycle, but particularly this last cycle. I've had this conversation with so many members of my family, folks on other side of the aisle that I know, but it goes along the lines of, have you noticed that no matter who's in the White House, New Mexico is still pretty rough? Yeah. Like, still trailing, still last in everything that's good, still first in everything that's bad? Regardless of who's in the White House, regardless of which party is controlling the Congress, New Mexico consistently is at the bottom.
Vince Torres:And until we recognize that and recognize that that's not a DC problem, that's a New Mexico problem, and that the people that are perpetuating that poverty, perpetuating this failing education system, perpetuating a lack of upward mobility. It's not because of what's happening in Washington, DC. It's the local leaders you just elected and chose just last week to continue to give all power and authority to. Yeah. The state has largely been governed and ruled by one political party for the last hundred years.
Vince Torres:Republicans have had some governors here and there. We flipped the House, you know, back in 2015 for two years, but for the most part, Democrats have run New Mexico for a hundred years, and look where we are. Yeah. And we just chose last week that despite all of our numbers, all of the problems that we're having with healthcare, all the problems that we're having in education, all the problems that we're having in public safety, people showed up en masse, and New Mexico spoke decisively that we're okay for that to continue.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. We're okay with the status quo. Well, you know, I was talking to our friend, Elias Cisneros, you know, this is probably like my old man like speech, but I was like, Elias, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different
Vince Torres:That's right.
Abe Baldonao:You know, and that's essentially what we did. And we're going to have to bear those consequences, and we're going to have to hopefully over the next four years really open the eyes of New Mexicans to say, hey, this is what you voted for. And, you know, when I think, know, Deb Haaland just recently, they asked her, well, what are you going to do about addressing affordability? And she talks about moving into this full, you know, carbon neutral space, you know, eliminating the fossil fuel industry and going all in on clean fuel. And I'm like, that doesn't lower the cost of utility rates for No, New you're gonna
Vince Torres:get energy costs up.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. You're going to exacerbate energy poverty. And, you know, again, that that's where I'm just like sitting here and I'm like, man, like New Mexico, like clean energy is not going to make things more affordable for you. It sure as heck isn't going to lower your p and m bill. In fact, it's actually probably going to double it because now we don't have the infrastructure and I'm sorry, clean energy doesn't meet the demands of New Mexico.
Vince Torres:It just won't. We've subsidizing the green energy portfolio for how many years Right. Which has come at a cost to us as as ratepayers. Yeah. So I I I agree with you.
Vince Torres:I I just wish that more New Mexicans would pay attention to things like that and then hold our local elected officials accountable. You know? But I, again, I just I just see cycle after cycle, election after election, it doesn't seem to come down to what's actually happening here in New Mexico. You know? They're they're so quick to to go out and and throw I'm voting against this president.
Vince Torres:Well, guess what? This president actually doesn't really care that you just voted against I'm just telling you But I tell you who does care, I do. Yeah. Your neighbor, because I got to live here. I'm raising a family here.
Vince Torres:I have a business here. I have a church here.
Abe Baldonao:I have my kids in schools.
Vince Torres:Yeah. Exactly. So it's crazy to me that people would be so naive to actually vote against their own Interests. Interests in order to stick it to the perceived interests of somebody who doesn't even know they exist. Right.
Vince Torres:And that's what I continue to see here.
Abe Baldonao:Well, and someone who is temporary. Right? I mean, a president is temporary. They're four, eight years if they're lucky, and that's it. Like Yeah.
Abe Baldonao:And then they're gone. And so I'll be curious, man, in two years, what beat to the drum that the Democrats will play when Trump's no longer on the ballot?
Vince Torres:They'll they'll... I'll tell you exactly what they're going to do. They will they will play that card as long as they can. So don't expect that to suddenly go away because he's not on the ballot come 2028. Yeah.
Vince Torres:They will continue to use that for anyone
Abe Baldonao:They'll who they'll probably use the mega. Right? They'll just, tie mega to every Republican candidate.
Vince Torres:Let's be honest, Dave. They'll use it so long as it works. Yeah. Just like it did here in New Mexico last week. They'll use it as long as it works.
Vince Torres:The only time at which that will go away is when the voters say, we've had enough of that. Yeah.
Abe Baldonao:Which I think there will be that exhaustion
Vince Torres:at some There be. That's disconnected from reality. I'm still hurting. You've done nothing to address affordability and all of these things that you promised. I mean, and let's be honest, there was a large percentage of people out there who voted last election because in their minds, they didn't feel that this current federal administration had delivered on some of the America First principles that they were supporting two years ago.
Vince Torres:That will swing back the other way. When Democrats do nothing to address affordability or energy costs or anything that we've been talking about, that pendulum is still very, very sensitive, and it will swing back the other way. I just hope that when it does, people are paying attention here in New Mexico. Because I have no doubt in my mind that that pendulum will swing back nationally. The question is, will it ever change here in New Mexico?
Vince Torres:Right. And we've talked about this a little bit in the past. My thing for New Mexico has always been the terminal mentality for me that New Mexico is gone is when we just embrace that this is the best it's ever gonna be. Yeah. This is it.
Vince Torres:I don't believe we're there yet, but I think we're increasingly getting there.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah, we're
Vince Torres:getting there. Where it just seems like people have accepted that this is our fate. It can't possibly get any better, and that's such a lie. Yeah. It is such a lie.
Vince Torres:New Mexico has so much untapped potential. And by the way, it's untapped because it's actually being suppressed by the powers that be, because if you unleash that potential, guess what happens? People become more dependent. Yeah. People become more independent.
Vince Torres:People become more successful. People become prosperous. And when people are more independent, and they're thriving, and they're prosperous, you can't control them anymore.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. And they're free thinking. And they're free thinking. They're like, hey, this actually worked out really well for me. Like, why would I ever go back?
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. And, you know, man, I think that's what we're going to see over the next four years. I think we're going to see the super majority, and this is where I'm hoping that the Senate of New Mexico will put a stop to a lot of bad bills because thankfully the Senate wasn't on the ballot this election cycle. So I'm hoping the Senate will be a roadblock to some potentially bad legislation. But I'm already hearing the Holland camp, you know, really big government is coming to buy your votes and make you more dependent because once you put that band aid on, it's hard to rip it off.
Abe Baldonao:Yes. And you know, when I see that they want to wipe out... Look, I understand that folks out there are struggling with medical debt, but to say government's the solution to that and say, hey, we're going to wipe out your... We're going to give $200,000,000 into this pot to wipe out your entire medical debt. Well, to me, you're just buying boats right there.
Abe Baldonao:And we're not talking about, okay, well, who's paying for that? Where's that coming from? Because you're going to have to replace that 200,000,000 from somewhere. And again, these are the same folks who tell you, well, we can't repeal the income tax for all New Mexicans, but we'll pay $200,000,000 off of medical costs for New Mexicans. And I'm like, well, that's backwards thinking.
Vince Torres:It totally is, and it's fundamentally a different philosophy when it comes to the future of New Mexico. I said this during the election. I wrote it publicly, that Deb Holland was someone who wants to make poverty more manageable. Yeah. Whereas in Greg Hall, we had someone who wanted to make prosperity more attainable.
Vince Torres:Yeah. And I think that's what you're going to see in a Holland administration. You're going to see all of these efforts to do just that, to make poverty more manageable, not to pull people out of poverty. Yeah. There was a great report that just came out at the LFC this week, and it was something that I've also talked about a lot over the last several weeks, but the LFC director mentioned it.
Vince Torres:You know, he said, we've got this horrible habit, I'm paraphrasing, of managing our success by the number of people who need government programs rather than measuring our success by the number of people who no longer need the government Right.
Abe Baldonao:It was used what it was intended for. It was a trampoline that elevated them, caught Our them out of a tough
Vince Torres:former common boss used to talk about that. Former Lieutenant Governor John Sanchez, he would talk about that safety net of government being a hammock versus a trampoline. A hammock that keeps you down. I don't know if you've ever tried to crawl out of a hammock. It's pretty rough and
Abe Baldonao:you Yeah,
Vince Torres:it's hard.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. Usually, just have to fall off.
Vince Torres:Yeah. It doesn't look very good. Right? No. And eventually, you do just fall off of it versus a trampoline that springs you, right, springs you upward, upward mobility.
Vince Torres:And so I think that's what you'll continue to see under this administration. And like you said, it is hard to rip that bandage off, especially the way that the welfare system is currently built that actually disincentivizes success. I was just talking about this with Michael Hendrix in the interview I did before this, but how we've disincentivized success even when it comes to families. So we tell a woman, you know, who a single mom with a couple children, basically, like, don't get married. Yeah.
Vince Torres:Don't get married. Because if you get married, you're gonna lose your benefits. Yeah. You can work, but you can only work this much because if you make a dollar more than that, all your benefits go away. But have more kids.
Vince Torres:Yeah. And have more kids out of wedlock because it'll increase your benefits. The whole system is built to keep that process in place. Yeah. Because again, if you incentivize it in such a way that people start to come out of it, getting back to the conversation we had earlier, well, you can't control them anymore.
Vince Torres:Yeah.
Abe Baldonao:Well, and when someone comes along and says, I want to lift you up. I want to lift you up through prosperity, though. Don't want to lift you up through these benefits. They say, well, that doesn't benefit me. What?
Abe Baldonao:That's not an incentive. Like, I had it made. I didn't... So you're telling me I'm going lose all my benefits because you want to uplift me, and they'll go vote for the same people who say, you know what, we're going to leave it as is, we're not... And again, it makes people who want to come in and say, hey, no, we want to lift you up.
Abe Baldonao:We want to make you self sustainable, And you it makes that person look like a boogeyman. How dare this person come in and want to take your benefits away?
Vince Torres:But the other side of it is that, you know, the government that you lean on to feed you can also starve Yep. And we saw that, you know, more recently when there was talk of, you know, there was some gridlock in Washington, D. C. Over SNAP funding, and the state had to step in and temporarily cover some things. That should have been a wake up moment for anybody who's on SNAP.
Vince Torres:Mhmm. But if I'm looking to the government Yeah. Every week to feed me, guess what? At some point, they can Yeah. Turn Turn it off.
Vince Torres:And the same is even true for the healthcare system. The government that can heal you through healthcare can also harm you. Yeah. Because at some point, they can say, that's going away. Yeah.
Vince Torres:I mean, we're learning right now, you know, universal child care. Right? Mhmm. And all of these families now receiving their notices that, hey
Abe Baldonao:Co pay time.
Vince Torres:Co pay is is kicking Co
Abe Baldonao:pay time.
Vince Torres:Exactly. This co pay is kicking in. So again, the government that can take care of your families can also say, hey, we're not And doing that
Abe Baldonao:it's funny, right, because in that bill it said, well, if there was an economic downturn like oil and gas revenues drop, we have the copays. We didn't even hit a drop in oil prices. So we just said, hey, you know what? Look, it's just not sustainable. And it has nothing to do with oil and gas revenue, you know.
Abe Baldonao:It just wasn't sustainable No. The get go. And now, what? That free childcare is no longer free. You're having to pay co pays.
Abe Baldonao:That's right. Just irresponsible governance, man. And it's... Again, I hope you Mexicans start to see this over the next four years just because I think it's only going get worse. I think this administration is going to come in with a mandate to pass all these big government type of initiatives that are just not going to be good for our state.
Abe Baldonao:It's going to further drive poverty. It's going to further drive businesses away. I mean, businesses aren't going to want to come here.
Vince Torres:No. And and you and I have been around long enough to see the difference in spending just since the the the administration of Susana Martinez and this governor.
Abe Baldonao:$5,000,000,000, I think, I under
Vince Torres:remember, I literally remember at the time when we cracked a $6,000,000,000 budget for the state and thinking to myself, this is crazy. Wow. We crossed the $6,000,000,000 line. What was last year's budget?
Abe Baldonao:12.8.
Vince Torres:In excess of $1,112,000,000,000 dollars. Estimates that they have for this incoming legislature is I think somewhere around 15.7
Abe Baldonao:available.
Vince Torres:Who knows that maybe they won't spend all of that. But again, you're talking about an increase from $6,000,000,000 annually to $11,000,000,000 in less than ten years. What do we have to show for it?
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. Seriously? Absolutely nothing.
Vince Torres:That's what we said before, like an 80% increase
Abe Baldonao:Yeah, 80%.
Vince Torres:Over the course of just eight years. Has our education improved by 80%? Has public safety improved 80%? Has healthcare improved 80%? No, we literally have nothing to show
Abe Baldonao:for it. And in fact, in many of those spaces, we've actually gone backwards. Right? That's right. Education, we actually went backwards for a while.
Abe Baldonao:And I've had this conversation over and over with folks. I'm like, don't forget the moonshot that failed.
Vince Torres:That's right.
Abe Baldonao:Like, didn't even get out of the atmosphere. Like, know, that moonshot fell flat and it provided historic levels of funding. What do we get for that? Absolutely nothing. Right now, APS is at historic levels of funding with a declining enrollment.
Abe Baldonao:Enrollment. Which is every parent should be frustrated like APS, what are you doing with the money that you're getting from the state of New Mexico and why is my child still in a classroom that is dead last?
Vince Torres:Well, know this, education makes up the largest portion of the state's budget. So do those out there who, you know, like to listen to the unions and others spew lies about underfunded education Yeah. And we're not spending enough, it's just not true. We spend more on education historically now than we ever have before, and a huge chunk of our education, of our state budget, is directed directly to education to the point now where what is it here in Albuquerque now? It's more than $30,000.36,
Abe Baldonao:almost $37,000
Vince Torres:per student. And so, mean, parents ask yourself, if your child is an APS, is the education that they're receiving a $3,637,000 dollar, you know, a year education? Yeah. Where is that money going? Yeah.
Vince Torres:If we're not seeing it in the results, like, is it going? You know? And I think that, again, it just points to the reality that if it were a money problem, New Mexico wouldn't be in the hole that we are because we have lots of money. We have tons of money. We're a very, very, very wealthy state.
Vince Torres:We don't feel it as taxpayers. We don't feel it as New Mexicans, but we're a very, very wealthy state. Yeah. Yeah. We're not a
Abe Baldonao:poor state. We're doing fine. And, you know, going back, former secretary Christopher Ruskowski, good friend of mine, I'll forget this. The last night of the last administration before MLG came in, he said, Abe, you're about to see they're going to throw so much money at these problems that it's not going to fix them. That's right.
Abe Baldonao:Because they think that money is the sole solution and it's going to fall flat. And sure enough, it did. Yeah. Because they stripped away accountability, they stripped away even parental rights, man. Parental involvement.
Abe Baldonao:We see it now where our public schools are pushing parents away Yeah. From what's happening in many of these schools and many of these classrooms. And, you know, again, man, it's just... He called it. And I just always think about that.
Abe Baldonao:I'm like, man, he called it. They were going to throw money at this. And sure enough, stripped away school grading, they stripped away teacher accountability. And so I think we need to... And I'll tell you, man, our best and brightest teachers will tell you, I want to be held accountable
Vince Torres:Yeah.
Abe Baldonao:For my students' outcomes. Like, I do want to be held accountable because that's how I measure if I'm getting better or if I need some areas to freshen up on. So I think we need to professionalize the teaching profession more. Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to get that with this administration now. I think the teachers unions are going to wreak havoc on New Mexico and I think...
Vince Torres:They already are. Yeah, we already see
Abe Baldonao:it happening now. I mean, even a rule making you just shared with me, was looking at it over again, and I know it was because of a private school language that may have been mistakenly input. But I read the rule again, and I'm like, wait, this is big overreach by the secretary, and it clearly seems to attack charter schools. So I'm like, wow, we're starting to see the secretary of education now wanting to get more power and control over the autonomy that a lot of schools, especially charters, rely on.
Vince Torres:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you already see it, you know, with the our outgoing governor, Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, just recently sent some shock waves on both sides of the aisle.
Abe Baldonao:Which, congratulations to her.
Vince Torres:Yeah, for opting into the Federal Education Freedom Tax Credit, which is, I will say, gonna be, for me personally, one of the great accomplishments of her administration. Now, I haven't agreed with her on much public policy, but on this, I will tell you, against all of the political pressures, our governor did the right thing, and thank you, governor, for doing this.
Abe Baldonao:You put families and students first.
Vince Torres:Yes. Absolutely. That deserves kudos. Putting kids over politics and pushing against the pressures of the unions to give families, both in public and private schools, a little bit more choice Relief and relief. In what they want to do, you know, with with their kids to improve education.
Vince Torres:And I think that's one of the conversations that we need to have moving forward is how do we empower families? How do we empower students to take a more active role in their education? Because if we depend solely on the system and the status quo, we don't expect that's going to change, and so parents, what does it look like for you to take a more active role? Well, through this tax credit and the scholarships that are going to follow, you know, here in New Mexico, you'll have the ability to take some money and to invest in tutoring, to put your kids in good quality aftercare programs, to help pay for transportation, to help for those with special needs with supplementary education costs. And yes, if you decide you want to pull your kid out and send them to a private school, to have a little bit of help in doing that.
Vince Torres:And again, but to see the union scrambling right now and going after the governor that they've spent the last seven years saying she's, you know, the greatest thing since sliced bread, all because they're losing a little bit of that control. Yeah. You know? And it's been very entertaining, you know, for me to see the lies that are being spewed from the unions now in this tax Oh, yeah. It's been entertaining.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. Which it doesn't affect them whatsoever. You know? Again, we have to have an honest conversation as a former educator. You know, public schools oftentimes don't meet every need of every child.
Vince Torres:That's right.
Abe Baldonao:And parents need to sometimes go outside of the public school system to address those needs, and that's a reality. And to a point you made, as a former educator, I will tell you, I know many educators that would agree with this, but they want parents to be more involved. Yeah. They want them to take action because it shouldn't solely rely on the teacher because guess what? Yeah, I spend a good chunk of the day with them, but then they're with you at home.
Abe Baldonao:And you need to reemphasize a lot of these teachings. You need to provide that structure. You need to provide that discipline and that accountability that I, the teacher, cannot. I'm not parent. I'm not the one responsible for the home piece.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah. And so, again, there's a role there that parents have that they need to step up, and teachers want them to step up. And I'll tell you, man, I had my fair share and brush ins with parents who were not involved. And it was frustrating because you saw students with so much potential, but their parents just didn't help. They didn't help provide that reassurance, they didn't provide that support.
Abe Baldonao:And so the only thing that a student had was you, the teacher, there that day to help get them, but they weren't getting that at home. And it is frustrating, and there's only so much teachers can do. And I think if more parents get involved and they have stake in the game with their kids, it'll also put... Ease up a lot of things that our teachers are experiencing right now as well.
Vince Torres:Yeah. No, I agree with that. I'm never going to give parents a pass in the role that we have as the chief decision makers and chief educators of our children and to take a more active role and being a willing and active participant in every things that our kids do. I think where the challenge comes in is increasingly we've had a government that has gone from, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.
Abe Baldonao:I was going to say that earlier, Ronald Reagan.
Vince Torres:Some of the most dangerous words, But now we have a government that doesn't just simply come in and say, I'm here to help. They're saying now, I'll do everything. Yeah. I'll do everything. So literally, you can have
Abe Baldonao:your Including, kid I'll be a parent to
Vince Torres:your child. You can have your kid, hand them over to us, and we'll take care of them basically from diaper all the way to college diploma Mhmm. Which is what we have said here in New Mexico, universal childcare. Right? Then you educate them through our public school system.
Vince Torres:Then we'll pay to keep them here in our New Mexico colleges, and you don't have to worry about it. Yeah. And along the way, we'll also feed them. We'll do everything, you know. And again, at all to diminish the need for the safety net of government.
Vince Torres:That's not what I'm talking about here. That safety net is there. It needs to be there. And even as a taxpayer, I'm fine with that being there. I'm okay with a portion of my tax dollars going to support that safety net.
Vince Torres:What I don't want it to do is to become what we talked about earlier, which is something that you just get stuck in. Yeah. And there's no upward mobility. And also in the process, giving up your responsibilities as parents to parent your kid. Yeah.
Vince Torres:That's your job. Do it.
Abe Baldonao:Well, it also strips away, I believe, that human dignity because when everything is given to you, you don't learn the... You don't learn to appreciate the the hard work and the merit that goes Yeah. Into a lot of this stuff because it's just been given to you rather than having to persevere and go through the hard times and, you know, fall and get back up. I mean, you know, success and failure go together. I have not met one person who has been successful that doesn't say I actually failed a 100 times before I became successful.
Abe Baldonao:And some of the most, like, wonderful people I've ever met don't even talk about success. They talk about significance, and I wish more people talked about that. Like, I don't want to be successful, I want to be significant. Sure. So when my life here is done on this earth and my human body is gone, what did I leave?
Abe Baldonao:What did I do to make the world a better place? And so a lot of the people that I've met that come from that place, like, to them, like, that is the true measure of success is Yeah. What was my significance? What did I do? What was my purpose?
Abe Baldonao:That's right. So, Vince, getting close-up in time. I don't want to keep too much, but where can folks learn more about the Bully Pulpit? And I mean, is there anything that you're keeping your eye on? Any other key takeaways that you want
Vince Torres:to share with our audience? So Bully Pulpit is available on all streaming platforms, so check it out, Bully Pulpit New Mexico podcast. Also available on all social media channels, so you can see some of the highlights and upcoming events and interviews that we'll be featuring here. You know, my eye is just on New Mexico. You know, like you, this is home.
Vince Torres:Yeah. This is where I'm raising my family. My wife and I made a decision many, many years ago when we had opportunities to leave New Mexico that we weren't going to do that, that we were going to not only stay here, but we also weren't just going to be pokes who stay here and simply point at the problems. We wanted to become part of the solution, which is why we're involved in so many things that we're involved in. And I would just encourage folks who, you know, who watch your show, who are maybe feeling a little down right now and a little, you know, beaten up is, hey, we've been given our marching orders.
Vince Torres:Like, we have clearly some things that need to be done. There are clearly some things that we need to work on and we need to learn from this last election cycle, but in no way is this any sort of message to us to simply give up. That's what the adversary, when I talk about the adversary, I'm not talking about the other side of the aisle, I'm talking about our enemy, Satan. He would love nothing more than for us to simply give up, move away, say all is gone, and we recede to our, you know, little Christian silos and say, I'm just not gonna be involved anymore. He would love nothing more than for that to happen, but that's not what we're called to do.
Vince Torres:We're called to be the salt and the light of of the world, and I I like to tell folks, you know, darkness is is not an affirmative force. Right. You can't turn on the darkness. Darkness can only occupy space that's been vacated by light, and so go out and be a light and continue to be the salt. And part of the salt, yes, we talk about it as providing some flavor, but also it's a preserving agent.
Vince Torres:And what does it preserve? It preserves decay. So as you look out and you see the decay that's not only happening here in New Mexico, but across the country, recognize that's what you were actually created to be, to create that... To be that salt, to prevent that decay until the Lord returns. So don't give up.
Vince Torres:Keep on fighting. Abe, thanks for all the incredible work you do through the Chile Wire. I love the guests that you bring on and for bringing some... This is a tool, you know, to folks who maybe don't have time to be as engaged as we are. Listen to The Chile Wire.
Vince Torres:Check out the guests that come on, and then, you know, do your own civic responsibility. Do a little bit of research. Find some resources that you can trust. Find some media outlets that are reporting the truth. Go to church, and make sure that you are constantly exposing yourself to the truth because it's one of the best ways that you can then detect the lie.
Abe Baldonao:Yeah, absolutely. Well, we can't end on a better note, and all I'll say is always seek truth and question everything. Always question everything. I... Just because someone says it doesn't always mean I Bible believe speak.
Vince Torres:Buy truth and do not sell it. That's what the Exactly. Bible
Abe Baldonao:Well, brother, thank you very much for stopping by the Chile Wire. We wish you all the best of luck, and we wish you all the best success with the bully pulpit. And if you all are interested, go check out the bully pulpit now. That's it for this week's Chile Wire, y'all. We'll see you next time.