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Geek out, do good. Join us every week as we explore the potential benefits of comics, games, TV shows, and movies through the practice of Geek Therapy. Hosted by Lara Taylor, Link Keller, and Josué Cardona.
Welcome to GT Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I'm joined by Lara Taylor.
Lara:Hey.
Josué:And Marc Cuiriz.
Marc:Yo.
Josué:Lara, where you been?
Marc:Honestly.
Lara:A lot of places.
Josué:Mhmm. Between places.
Lara:Between places, you might say in a state of limbo.
Josué:No way. That's our topic today.
Lara:What? What?
Marc:We totally I mean scripts that.
Lara:We didn't. There was no script. That was an improv bad segue into the into the topic for the day. I mean, most of the weeks I've been missing have been due to, like, Jewish holidays and things like that, but like the big thing is we're doing a kitchen remodel and there was We already knew we had to take care of some asbestos stuff. I'm turning into like my 40 year old self right now and then there was mold that they found, so we had to stay away longer.
Lara:So I'm staying at my aunt's house and have been here for a month, and I have no idea when I'm going home. And that's a kind of weird feeling.
Josué:Yeah.
Lara:I am in kitchen renovation. Don't know what's happening limbo. People ask me, are you when are you are you gonna be home by this time? Are you gonna have be home to be able to cook things for Thanksgiving? Are you gonna be home for the holidays?
Lara:I don't know.
Josué:I don't know.
Lara:That's my answer to everything. I don't know. And it's a very weird I feel like I can't settle here too much like things have been relaxing. It's nice like I don't have to worry about too many things here. Yeah.
Lara:Helps us with dinner and stuff. And it's been wonderful. And at the same time, I don't have my things around me. I feel kinda, I don't know, stuck. Do I watch all these things?
Lara:Like we've been watching our shows that are recording on our DVR at home. And I think I finally figured out how to delete them from our thing at home without having to go home. But it's like, I don't know where I am. I don't know if I'm here. I don't know if I'm there.
Lara:I've only been back to the house a couple times and it feels really weird because there's last time I was there, there was no drywall on the walls. It's like, it doesn't look like the house. It doesn't it doesn't.
Josué:A plus is it's it's not just where you're spending your time. It's where you work, because you work from home. You sleep. All of it is in a state of in between. Mhmm.
Josué:Yeah. That's pretty pretty weird.
Lara:It's a whole weird experience. But it got me thinking about other, like, times in life that there's been this, like, I don't know, either a feeling of a, like, a the one foot in the door, one foot out of the door, or like this, like, well, I just don't know. I don't know what's ahead of me. I don't know what's behind. I, like, I know what's behind me, but am I going back to that place?
Lara:I don't know.
Josué:Yeah.
Lara:And so this last week, I was watching Chaos on Netflix, which I'm very sad did not get renewed for another season because it's a really good show. Modern take on Greek gods, really fun.
Marc:We love that here.
Lara:We love it. We love it. I was I was glad it was Greek gods and not Norse gods because that's what the retelling of everything I've been seeing is Norse mythology, this and that. But in the show, we have people who die and go to the underworld and they go to Asphodel and they don't get to go on to whatever's next because somebody everybody in Greek mythology, you would be buried with a coin so that Charon would take the coin as payment for ferrying across the River Styx. Well, someone took the coin and so they can't go to where they're supposed to go, so they're stuck.
Lara:And in this this situation, they at least knew two hundred years from now, they would get to go on to something else. That's that's hundred years.
Josué:That's still some kind of certainty.
Lara:Yeah. What am I gonna do for two hundred years? What is it gonna be like everything I know is gone? And I'm stuck here with nothing.
Josué:So, yeah. I kind of want to jump on that. But I'm gonna save that for later.
Marc:Okay.
Josué:So so to that, did you did you kind of like relate to that? Little bit.
Lara:Yeah. A little bit. I made that connection. I mean, obviously, it's very different. Like, I don't feel like I'm in the underworld.
Lara:I am like I said, I'm being well taken care of. I am I am, like, in a in a nice home. But there are moments where I'm like, oh, no. Did I bring this diabetes supply thing with me? Did I leave bring enough of it?
Lara:Do I need to go back to the house and go get some? Or can at one point, it was, can I even go back to the house? Because We couldn't have go in the door because of health management stuff So it was a lot of especially in the beginning a lot of like, oh, no Did I move enough of my stuff here And it feels like I have half moved into this house Because of it, so yeah, I'm sitting pretty feeling relaxed here and yet There's still this feeling of like I'm not home. I don't know what I don't know when I'm gonna be home. I don't know when I'm going.
Lara:Like, in the show, they know where they're going next. No. At least they know where they're going next, and they know when they're going there, but it's such a long wait. Yeah. And they kinda have to rebuild their life.
Lara:So I'm kind of relating to that piece of it, the rebuilding of things, at least like a temporary structure.
Josué:Yeah.
Lara:Right?
Josué:Yeah. There's it makes me think of the the idea of, like, permanence. Kind of maybe a different word. I mean, in terms of like, where you're living, it's like, that's not your home, you know, like your home is somewhere else. That's where your your stuff is, like you said, that is where the three were, that's where you're gonna be.
Josué:That's that's the long term plan. So there's some kind of permanence there, but you're like, for right now, and you are in between the states of that. So to me, like, I know I'm thinking of the unease that can come with feeling like a situation. It's not permanent Mhmm. In a way.
Josué:But and I bring it up because in my case, I rarely have that feeling at all.
Lara:Right.
Josué:A permanent. So it bothers me less and less. I kind of never I don't assume that anything is going to last very long. And that comes from a lifetime of moving very frequently. Right?
Josué:So that's like a third, third culture kid type of thing. Yeah. Part of it is also like, how unstable my parents' marriages were, all of them, right, so to me, even like relationships, I'm like, relationships don't last forever. And I I don't see anything as like and and in I don't know. That's kind of how I I I see the world.
Josué:Everything is very I'm trying to think of a good word. Not fleeting, but, like, everything is in flux. Like everything is is is moving.
Lara:Everything changes. Right?
Josué:Yeah. Yeah.
Lara:The world does not look like it did, you know, a hundred years ago and it there are some parts that do and there are a lot of parts that don't and doesn't look like it did a thousand years ago and all of that. So
Josué:Yeah. And I'm I'm I'm assuming the change will come. So the way it affects me and maybe when I was younger, it affected me more like I was more afraid of like, this isn't going to last. Right? As I've gotten older, it's more I'm going to enjoy this while it's here because I don't know how much longer this is going to to last.
Josué:So those are kind of the things that came to mind in terms of moving from one thing to another and and that, Marc, any any any thoughts come to mind on this topic?
Marc:Yeah. It's weird. I know that when this topic came up, I was I had, like, some more, like, joking answers, but that, like, we're also kinda serious and stuff that, like, you know, stuff I've experienced. But I think as I'm kinda thinking about things a little bit more deeply, I know, Josué, you and I had a conversation a couple weeks ago and I was kind of telling you, like, kind of like the struggles I'm kind of going with right now when it comes to, like, just starting my career now. Now that, you know, I've graduated, I'm in the process of getting my license and everything.
Marc:And I have these two jobs that I'm working, but it's like I'm not fully satisfied with one of them. And the other one just isn't stable enough for me to say I want to commit to this full time yet. So I'm in this weird spot of, like, I just kinda have to grin and bear the the current situation even though in my head, I'm like, I know this isn't permanent. I know this isn't forever, but, like, I think of it kind of like like like The Good Place. So, like, towards the end of the series when, like, everybody's just kind of doing their thing and then it gets to a or, like, when they figure out The Good Place and it's like, oh, like, you guys have absolutely nothing to look forward to.
Marc:You guys are all just in this constant state of, like, you know, dullness. It's like
Josué:To to be clear, in the good place, there is an actual place called limbo. So you're not talking about limbo.
Lara:Not talking about that limbo.
Marc:No. No. No. I'm talking about, like, I'm talking the good place. Like, the good place is basically like limbo where it's, you know, they've they've achieved it.
Marc:They're in the good place, but then there's nothing after that. Like, that's it. And so, like, they're all just kind of just there. And then there's nothing there's nothing to look forward to or they're, like, they're just waiting for that next thing. And then they kind of just get you kind of just grow into a routine of it.
Marc:It's get it gets monotonous. And I think right now that's kind of the state I kind of feel like I'm in where things just feel very monotonous. Like I'm just kind of going through the motions. I'm just, you know, I'm waking up, I'm going to work, I'm putting in all the hours, I'm putting in the work. I come home, I sleep, and then I started over.
Marc:And it's like, okay, but like, I know this isn't going to be forever. But then it's like, at the same time, I don't know when that change is gonna happen because there really isn't any sign of anything moving. And also, like, it's really hard for me to say, like, okay, well, here's what I'm going to do to, like, make the changes and and do those things because a lot of the things are out of my control. Like, I can't
Lara:Mhmm.
Marc:Just make 15 new clients appear to see individually. Like
Lara:It's so, Marc, that falls into that, like, one foot in, one foot out the door that I was talking about. Like, kinda in the limbo of the doorway. Right? Like, I I wanna go I'm I wanna go to this job. I wanna I want this thing to happen, and I don't know what to do with it.
Lara:And so you feel like another way of being in limbo is feeling stuck. Like, I've definitely been there before with, especially in the career of, well, when I get licensed, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna but being one foot in the door in the door, one foot out the door, it's like, I'm just biding my time until I get my license and I can leave this job and make more money.
Marc:Exactly. And that's and that's kinda where I'm at where it's I'm like, I want to do this thing and I want to take this job and I want to do it full time. I want to see clients in private practice like that just is where I feel I am the most comfortable. It's more of my passion. And at the same time, it's like, however, this job that I'm also at has the financial security, and I need that.
Marc:So like you said, I'm I'm very much like one foot into this, but at the same time, I'm one foot out because I'm not satisfied with that work. I don't really want to be there. But I'm doing it because I know I have the financial security. And on the other hand, I want to dedicate more time to seeing, you know, individual clients. But I also can't because I don't have that availability because I have the other job.
Lara:It's also interesting because the way you described it is very different from the experience that I'm living right now. That, like, it's not quite one foot in the door, one foot out the door. I'm completely out the door and in another place right now. But it's this but the thing that I found similar is the idea of the monotony. Right?
Lara:Like, I'm in a new place and there are days where I'm like, I don't know. Like, oh, I just need to grab this fork or whatever and like, I don't know where that is and stuff like that. Over a month, I've learned a lot of the things and where they are in the house, but I don't know everything. But I'm still in that, like, get up, go to work, get done with work. I guess I'm gonna watch TV because I don't have that all of my things with me to do.
Lara:I've got a few things here now that I can do. Thank goodness Nina made me bring the PlayStation five. So I do have some things I can do, but I don't have all the options to me. So every day is getting pretty routine and monotonous and like, I just go through the motions until the day I get to go home.
Josué:What I what I'm hearing is and I really like the Good Place example you gave. Because throughout the whole show, the whole point is, like, how can we get to the good place? And that's the goal. And then once they achieve that goal, after an undetermined amount of time, the goal shifts, right? Or like, the goal isn't as satisfying, or it doesn't seem it's not what you thought it would be.
Josué:And Marc, didn't when did you graduate?
Marc:May.
Josué:So you just accomplished the thing.
Marc:And I'm already like, what's next? Like, is this it?
Josué:Right. Right. But that it's like, it's such a different it's a change in perspective. You were like, oh, I'm going to this is this is my goal. And now you achieve the goal.
Josué:And instead of feeling like, I made it. Just a few months later, you're like, this ain't it. But I don't know what's next. I don't know what's coming next. So now I'm stuck here.
Josué:Right? I feel like just just like in Lauren, your case, it could be you could feel like like one way to see your situation could be like, oh, there's a cool little side quest adventure type of thing. I think the the limbo part is that you have no idea how long it's going to last. Yep. You don't have but you do know where you're gonna end up after.
Lara:Right.
Josué:Marc Marc has no idea.
Lara:No. Right. And so that's also it's interesting because I'm not gonna spoil chaos because if there's a lot of good thing, but they don't actually know where they're go they think they know where they're going, but there's a realization. And it's like, oh, that's not we gotta change that. You know?
Lara:I don't wanna go there.
Josué:And there's no season two. So who
Lara:And there's no season two.
Josué:Get there. Man.
Lara:It's there's it it ended in such a good way. It it's it ended in such a good way, and there are a lot of things that do get tied up. But like, ah, there's so much that I'm like, oh, I wish they could Jeff Goldblum as Zeus is just fabulous.
Josué:Oh, I I can tell you that in I did make a decision, right, a few months ago that I was gonna sell my house, and I was going to start moving in potential different directions.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:And so, like the literal moving sense, I left Chicago, and I came to stay with my sister for a little bit. And I told her, like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. There are multiple paths possible. I don't know which one of them will be. And, of course, listeners can't see this.
Josué:But you guys know when I've been recording every week, I've just been I've just been in a very temporary setup. It wasn't until two weeks ago that I finally had more of a like, a decision was made. And I now I I have I actually have a goalpost. Like, I know what my next move is going to be. But for about two months, I had no idea.
Josué:So I didn't even set up anything. But now I know that for the next three months, I'm going to be here, and I know what comes next. So now I've like, I've set up my stuff, because I was ready to move at any moment, depending on what happened. And I was in a much more temporary state. So I was in that, like, also, I'll call it a state of limbo, right, where I really had no idea.
Josué:But I was ready to, at at any moment, to move with whatever flow came up. Had a few different things that could that could happen. And I really had no idea how it could go. And even now, there's still a lot of stuff that I don't know exactly how they're gonna pan out, but I do have more direction.
Lara:You can see it in the future. Yeah.
Josué:Yeah. So I had no problem setting up a little bit like decorating a little bit and setting up my my nice camera and stuff for for like, for the next three months, because at least I know where I'm gonna be for the next three months. And and I know what's coming next. Like, I can do this in service of preparation for the the next thing.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:And it is I was I recognized how no. I was impressed with how well I was handling the nebulousness of of that, where I was like, entirely like, who knows what happened? I've I've I've there's lots of different possibilities. We'll see where it goes. And if anybody asked me, are what are gonna do?
Josué:Like, I don't know. I don't know. But I was pretty relaxed and actually kind of excited about it. But but I wouldn't have been that way twenty years ago.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:I don't think maybe. I don't know. But, again, it's a different type of framing. There were there was before I sold the house, there, I was really scared. Because also in that situation, I lost my job.
Josué:And sure, it's like, oh, what am I gonna do? And finally, I decided what to do. I was waiting for something to happen. And it wasn't until I kind of made a decision that that I was able to start moving. Mhmm.
Josué:My my point being is that limbo is, like, I feel like in most cases, it is of our own making, right, where we can where there's ways to get out of that. Like, again, Lara, you like, now I have I have a pretty good idea of what I'm gonna do. Yeah. And I have I have a list of a list of tasks that I need to accomplish by a certain date. And there's there's a there's a an outcome.
Josué:I don't know exactly what that looks like, but there's a if I'm in this, like, limbo realm, I know how to escape it. I don't know what's at the other end exactly, but I know how to escape it. You know what's on the other end. You're just waiting for somebody to open the portal.
Lara:Right? For you. I definitely like I was supposed like, before we moved here, I had a moment where I was like crying. And I told Nina I was like, because she expected me to stay here the whole time we were doing construction. And at this point, I'm like, I guess I'm going to.
Lara:But I was like, I can't. I can't be away from my stuff and my things and all the and my routine, and I wanna be able to just go grab a book off the shelf where I just and not be like, oh, I have to go all the way back home to grab this thing that I want. And Since I've gotten here. I've been fine like it's been oh Something new happened and they have to do this other thing and it's gonna take a little longer. Okay.
Lara:Well, I guess I'm just here Yeah What struck me, you talked about finally having the, like, the the comfortability of putting up decorations and, like, settling in a little bit and, like, setting up your camera and all of that. It reminds me when I worked at the group home, and those kids are always in limbo. They could get pulled out of there at any time and move to another home.
Josué:Everything is temporary.
Lara:Everything is temporary. They show up with a sometimes a garbage bag full of their stuff. And the one thing that we encourage them to do is at least put one thing of theirs that they like on the wall to make it their space, even if it's only a temporary space putting something of theirs there that they can look to that makes the space theirs.
Josué:I like that. Did you find that it was helpful? Did they for them?
Lara:Most of the time. Yeah. I mean, there were some kids that would get pissed off because they'd put something up and then, like, something would happen and they'd leave a few days later. But, like, most of the time, it was a lot easier for and some kids would be there for, like, six months, a year, and then realize, oh, this is where I'm gonna be for the long term. My social worker's not gonna pull me.
Lara:And they'd start putting up lights and, like, making little, like, desk nooks and things like that. And that was really cool to see when they started making it their own in their own way. But it feels so weird to walk into a kid's bedroom and just see blank walls. Like, it it's a it's a eerie feeling for me. Even, like, even just, like, one sticker or a poster or something, like and it was good to see, like, the kids.
Lara:Like, we would even take money and go, like, to the store and help them pick out a poster to put on the wall or something. Yeah.
Josué:I wonder though. Like I can I can imagine being resistant to it? Night of like, I don't want this to I don't want to feel comfortable here. I don't wanna feel I don't want this to be a space for me. I don't want any part of it to be I don't wanna accept this.
Josué:Right?
Lara:And a few of them were like that. Yeah. It it all depended on the on the circumstances of the kid that was showing up there. There were kids coming from juvenile hall or lockdown facilities. They're like, oh, I get to live in a house.
Lara:Like, okay. This is cool. Yeah. But get them to at least buy something and maybe they don't put it up right away, but have something that they can put up that's theirs. Or they use their bedsheets in their comforter instead of the house's sheets and comforter.
Lara:That kind of thing was always good too because they could take that with them.
Josué:Yeah. So it's like again, it says perspective piece. Like, it's a it's an exercise or a kind of a ritual that makes it the changes that reframes the situation in a way. Mhmm. Like, my sister was cool with me putting up a few things.
Josué:Right? Mhmm. So I feel welcome here. Also, I didn't make any permanent changes. Everything is very easily taken down.
Josué:Mhmm. It's still it's still very temporary in that sense. But it does feel like, hey, while you're here, why not be comfortable? While you're here, why not enjoy it and make the most of it?
Lara:And that's the thing my aunt's been telling us the whole time, and we've just now started, like, moving things around on shelves to put our own stuff up. But I'm also like, I wanna take over her house. It's her house. And she is like an immaculate person. Like, the house is clean, and there's not a lot of clutter.
Lara:And I'm like, I don't wanna I wanna do that to her because Nina and I clutter everything up.
Josué:Okay. Well, and I want to take a different angle of this. But but how do you feel right now? Marc? Do you feel that in your current state?
Josué:Are you like, you're doing these jobs? Do you feel like you're, you like, are you solidifying your position there? Are you making moves so that it's not like, do you do you want to feel like, how do you wanna feel in this particular moment in situations that you are that you're in?
Marc:Yeah. I mean, when it comes to, like, the private practice aspect, like, I am like, there are moves, and there are things that are happening to kind of shift things around for myself. So that way, I can set myself up to eventually take that full leap and decide the K, okay, I want to do this full time. And that just is just involving like shifting clients around transitioning some of them, and kind of making myself more available to the offices that are closer to my home instead of having to drive over about an hour just to get to an office for one client. And then for the other job, I mean, I think right now, lot of it is just kind of solidifying myself because, you know, for me, this is still a transitionary period.
Marc:Because while I've been with them for almost two years, I've only recently got, like, had a promotion and kind of moved up. So I'm taking on a little bit more responsibility. And I only really had like, three days to like, pick up the things that I was that I didn't normally have to worry about, but now I have to worry about them. So I only really had, like, three days to, like, observe and shadow and train, and then I kinda got thrown into it. So I'm more so like working on solidifying myself there and just kinda making myself comfortable there.
Marc:Kind of making getting my own style, developing my way of of approaching things and and how I handle my patients and things like that. I think that's kind of where I'm at with them. And then for the other part, it's more like I'm trying to make the move so that way when I decide I wanna just full send it and and go for it, I've signed everything up. So now it's it's it's gonna be a lot easier as opposed to well, now I have to make all these changes and moves.
Josué:So do you feel stuck? Or do you feel like you're not stuck and moving towards something?
Marc:It yeah. I mean, I still do feel stuck because even though, yes, these are the changes that I that I am making or that are happening. It's just, you know, it's a time thing. So like, sure, like I am making these changes, and I am deciding to kind of shift things to gear myself up to kind of take on more clients, just, you know, and have the availability to work with them, you know, closer to home. But I don't know necessarily when that is going to be because, you know, with me losing some clients like that also then frees up a little bit more time to take care of myself and do things more for me or have a little bit more time to just kind of be present at home because I haven't really been.
Marc:No. So it's I don't know. Like, it's a it's a very peculiar coming of age situation that I'm
Josué:in here
Marc:where I'm just I'm trying to figure out the balance of everything so I can actually be comfortable and feel like I am making that forward progress and working towards something. Yeah. Which I which is something else that I've I'm thinking about of like, you know, but that's a whole that's a whole other topic. But yeah, I'm trying to just gear things up. I'm trying to work this balance that way.
Marc:It doesn't feel like I'm stuck. Because I know like I'm done with school. Like, I could go back to school, I could get a doctorate. I could do all these different trainings. I can do all sorts of different things and change, you know, and go down different avenues of careers.
Marc:Sure. But all but that's all optional. Like, if for all intents and purposes, and I mean, aside from getting my full my four letters, I'm basically done. But that's it. So now it's just making meaning out of it and doing something that still feels like it's fulfilling rather than just like, well, guess time to just do the same thing day in and day out until I die or decide to retire if I'm allowed to.
Lara:Yeah. But you never if a special that's interesting. I see it differently because Mhmm. No two days of work are the same for me ever. I mean, yes, I'm sitting in front of this computer and meet with clients day in, day out, but no two days are the same because of the clients.
Lara:Anyway.
Marc:Yeah. I think I think that would be like the only, like the nice little thing where like that kind of like spices things up. And I think that's what kind of helps is like when I do see my individual clients, and it's like, ah, like, what sort of issue like, what what do we got? What are we working on? Or they come in, they're like, boy, do I have a story for you?
Marc:And I'm just
Lara:like, just love those. I love those. Yeah. I had client. Me tell you.
Marc:I had a client, like, she came in and she she she's like, I need you to sit down and I need you to just listen because I have a story and then proceeded to talk and and tell me this elaborate story that was super cringe. But it was just so high school and it was just so I loved it. And that's why I'm like, okay. I I could I can do this. I I it's not that bad.
Lara:I've got a lot I've got a lot of clients that like to go to when I start a session is like, how's it going? How you been this week? Lot of them are like, alright. And they got a grin on their face, but they're like, buckle in because this is this is a lot. It's always a good day.
Josué:Yeah. Lara, when I hear you talk about your job, your career
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:You sound like, this is like, this is this is what I wanted.
Lara:This is exactly what I wanted. Only thing that I'm not doing that I would want to do maybe is to supervise interns.
Josué:Yeah.
Lara:I think that's something that I would really like to do, but I'm in the zone. I got my perfect clients as in like, I'm working with the population I've always wanted to work with and even there are challenges, but I usually feel pretty equipped to handle them. So Yeah.
Josué:I don't think I would feel the same way in your situation, even if, like, all of the same things that apply for you were, you know, in in my version of them, I I would probably feel more I'm sure I would have stopped. I I mean, I did stop many years ago. Right? I'm sure
Lara:I'm sure, Josué. I am also the person who, like, yes, there is no permanence in the world. But when I put my furniture in a room, it's not getting moved. I like it the way it is.
Josué:What I say is is right. So so like, that's such a different experience, right? Like you're in and you're like, yes, this is it. And then being in that situation that like Marc is in now, I think this ain't it.
Lara:I don't
Josué:think right? I'm not sure what what what this is. It's it's it's it's hard. And I don't know how much of it like you said, like, like, Marc, you said, you know, you're kind of finding meaning, contributing meaning to to things. Here's a here's a different angle to this in a way.
Josué:This philosopher, really like he said, something along the lines of, if you just putting nice curtains up in your gel cell doesn't change the fact that you're in prison. Right? That you can decorate it all you want, make it look really nice. Right? So like, I'm I'm looking at this from a different angle as well.
Josué:Right? Because, like, if you use the exam by example again, right, of like, oh, I decorated my my my space at my sister's house. To me, it's not a like, there is a version of that where I could have just been like, well, this is my life now. And this is this is and like ignoring potentially negative aspects of it, or they just remaining entirely stuck, you know, when somebody is, like, like, has resigned from the idea of moving forward or achieving their goals or something like that. And then you just kind of, you know, talk yourself.
Josué:The word, like, the most unhealthy version of this is like being in a toxic relationship. And then just like, oh, but you know, but they love me or like, it's not so bad. Other people have it much worse, you know, and like you're trying to sugarcoat the idea and start looking at positives, even though your situation is is is unhealthy. And like, if it continues, it is not going to end well for you. I'm thinking about about that now.
Josué:Mhmm. Any idea any any thoughts or any examples And in media where where you see that happen?
Lara:I'm trying to think. Do you have any examples this way?
Josué:I'm trying to think of specific ones. But you know, there's there, there's that that story that comes up when like, a hero retires, you know, like, I'm not doing it anymore. I'm going to live on the beach or something, you know, but like, they can't help but like, save people every now and then or they can't help but, you know, like, like, there's a piece of them that keeps coming out regardless, but they're they're trying to stay far away from the thing that they said that they didn't want to do. That type of character stories are jumping out of me. Can't remember a specific one right now.
Marc:I would say the thing that comes to my mind is a man calls a man called Otto. Like, he hates people. Thinks people are idiots, and he has nothing to do with them. But he can't help himself. And, you know, he's such a caring person deep down that, you know, he just he always ends up getting himself involved into all these different shenanigans and he gets pulled in.
Marc:And, you know, he at any point, he could always say like, no, I'm done. Like, don't bother me. I'm not answering the door. And then but yet he continues to do so because it it always ends up getting drawn back out. There's just a piece of him that that ends up always shining through.
Josué:That movie bothered me so much.
Marc:I know. But, like, but
Josué:but the thing is is that
Marc:that movie has has been incorporated, and even the book too, like, we've we've incorporated it in a few episodes now to because, like, there is a lot there. Like, we've I know when we were talking about the movie too, like, I think it applies to this too because he's also in that state of limbo. Like, his wife dies, and he's just he's just there. He's essentially in his own form of purgatory because he he's not moving forward. There's not for to him, there's nothing to look forward to.
Marc:Anything and everything that he had going for him is gone, really, because he lot like, he's forced into retirement. His wife is gone, and his friend that he was having beef with has Alzheimer's and is always, like, very sick, or is not moving as much or is not talking as much. So, like, he really is isolated and just kinda, like, just there. He's just a a person that is there. And so he's struggling with that idea of limbo until all these different people come in and start giving him, like, I was mentioning earlier, that that meaning and forming that and is able to to pull himself out of that that stuck state of just feeling rooted in in a particular point in time.
Marc:He he learns to to move forward and and be in the present moment.
Josué:To to be so, Lara, you weren't on that episode. Mhmm. But I go into detail on this, and and and so I won't go into super detail now. But but I think I think the the complete opposite of what Marc just said.
Lara:Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Josué:I think that he's very clear on what he wants, and he knows exactly how to get out of this limbo. And everybody around him pulls him in and creates the situation that he doesn't want and kind of sugarcoats this and kind of, like, prohibits him from from actually achieving his goal of reuniting with his wife who is dead. And this is I mean, he does want to kill himself in this story, but that is his goal. And I don't believe that, you know, that that was my takeaway from the from the movie. It's like they may have delayed whatever, and it was all very selfish.
Josué:I don't think it was I don't think I I did not like the way that story was written. But I see your your perspective on it.
Marc:Think when you if you were to look at it from the way that I'm sure the movie is like intention was of like how they wanted to shine the story like, it fits. And you're looking at it from the perspective that we were talking about. And you know, you were making you were showing me like you were talking about it and did open my eyes to a lot and it made me much more critical of the story. I guess I can also see how it is it definitely does not fit into this into this into this topic. But I don't know.
Marc:I think it's important that you asked for an example I get.
Josué:Know. I know. I know.
Marc:I'm pulled one.
Josué:I thought Goku is one. For things Goku. When he's in super, like, his wife wants him to retire. She's like, stop fighting. There's no reason to fight.
Josué:There's no reason to train. The world is at peace. Just stop it and be a farmer. Right? And he he he it's hard for him to to like, he's like, okay, I'll be like, he's almost hoping for something to happen.
Josué:He's always looking for every chance to be able to get away from this mundane life that he's that he's found himself in. And his wife is kind of she's demanding of him. Right? She's not really asking him. There's actually something really messed up that happens in Dragon Ball where she her reasoning for him to be a farmer is that they need to make money.
Josué:And then early on in the show, he becomes a millionaire and gives her all the money.
Lara:And then she doesn't have to be a farmer.
Josué:Yeah. And then she pretends to have spent it all so that he will continue to be a farmer. And she she doesn't want he's like, you spent it all. She's like, yeah, I spent on education and everything because he doesn't really understand how much money it was, but it was like $10,000,000. And and she she she wants to keep him in that state of of not being true to himself and not living according to his potential.
Josué:She wants to keep him stuck doing this because that's what she thinks they should do. And then fortunately, you know, gods and aliens and all sorts of things come up and then we need you know, you need him. But he but he tried. He he tried to to not to not you know, he he tried to be that for his wife, but it was so it was not him. And he could tell that he was suffering, but he was he was really trying.
Josué:And all of the justifications of, like, that's the money or this is, like, be a good example for your kids and blah blah blah. All these reasons, like, it just was not enough for him to to do that. Yeah.
Lara:I keep thinking of, like I I think of Logan and Wolverine and Deadpool and Wolverine not wanting to any example we get of, like, hey. Come help us do this thing. No. I don't wanna. I got my life right now.
Lara:I'm I'm good. And then No. All of a sudden pulled into shenanigans by Deadpool or in the movie Logan by a kid. Right? Or Hawkeye.
Lara:Right? Also pulled back into the superhero life by a kid. Right?
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, doesn't want to be in that situation. I think, like, sometimes some of these heroes really do want to retire, and they don't let them.
Lara:Right.
Josué:Right. But sometimes they, like, stop because they don't yeah. I don't know if there's something right about, being clear on what you who you are and what you want to be. That's probably the hardest part. I'm thinking of Superman.
Josué:The small little version of Superman, when we revisit them in the arrow verse later on, he gave up all of his powers so that he could have kids and raise kids on the on the farm. Right? And when they come and ask him for help, he's like, that was that's not really
Lara:what I
Josué:wanna do. I'm not that. I'm not about that. I think that Logan is a different example. Right?
Josué:Like like in Deadpool and Wolverine, like, he wants the opportunity to be the best players in
Lara:the head. In the beginning. Yeah. Mhmm.
Josué:Yeah. He's, like, he's he's in a bad spot. But when the the opportunity to be who he believes that he is, to be the x man, like, jumps at that. He really wants that badly. And he's able to kind of get out of that rut and and go on an adventure and try to do something different.
Josué:Right? Like, he's not he's not Sometimes we we're we put ourselves sometimes we're in a situation that we think that's where we need to be. Or that's how things have to be. Mhmm. Which is which is, you know, going back to the the the fact that, like, I hear you a lot of talking about, I'm like, I wish everybody felt that way.
Josué:Right? About their job and about what they've achieved. And sometimes I'm even like, like, can you even relate to to people who are struggling with their job? Like, you sound like you were you're you're, like, doing so well. Right?
Lara:Because I did struggle with my job for a long time. Right?
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right?
Josué:But like, made it. Right? It's like, don't wanna hear from you. You made it already. And I
Lara:And I could hate it in an well, not what I do, but the place I work for, I could hate it in another year or two. Who knows? Right? Like, it's but I enjoy the thing I do. It's interesting because talking about all these different reactions to the same kind of thing, I was thinking about the example of, like, the ultimate limbo of the snap, the blip in in the MCU.
Lara:So many people stuck with, are they coming back? I don't know. And some people giving up and being like, this is what it is. Some people despairing and just, like, suffering, some people moving on with their life and have building a new life and having a new marriage or a new family or whatever. And some people fighting with everything they have to try and get those people back.
Lara:Right? And change things in a different way.
Josué:Yeah. That's a great one. Everybody experienced the same event.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:Different degrees. Different people lost. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
Josué:But the the same event worldwide. And you're right. So people are like, no, we just we waited a little bit. Some people are still waiting, but you have to make a choice at some point or like, no, we're moving forward. Like, this is the state now.
Josué:And so we're gonna we're moving on to phase two, phase three. You know, we're we're doing something else.
Lara:And then there were other people that like, so this is what it is now. I'm moving forward with my life. I'm moving on with my life. But other people are like, I'm not moving on. I'm bringing things back so that I can move on.
Lara:Right? And other people can move on. Yeah. Or doing something about the problem, basically.
Josué:Yeah. Kind of that that self. It's it's the self. Again, like, define whether or not you're in limbo or not. And so the people who decided I think the people like the Avengers who decided to keep fighting and the people who decided, this is this happened.
Josué:I'm going to we're going to continue moving forward. All of those people move forward. They're not a limbo anymore. The people who are like, maybe they'll come back tomorrow. Maybe they'll be back.
Lara:Like, or the people that are just like, nobody's ever coming back. I'm just gonna sit here and do nothing. Right? Like, those are the people still stuck in a limbo.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. It's hard when you're when you're
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:In that. I think I think in a lot of stories, right, it's like somebody pulls you either something or somebody pulls you out. I keep going back to what what you said, Marc, about the meaning making of it. I've been thinking a lot about, I think often about Viktor Frankl's book, Managers for Meaning and, and the stuff that he talked about. He talked to he talked a lot about how, like, if you had something to look forward to, it makes it a lot easier to go through what you're going through now.
Josué:And I think that's the in a in a more metaphorical sense of like, if you're in limbo, and you have no idea what's outside, what's next, what's like Make
Lara:certain meaning out of what you have now.
Josué:Mhmm. Well, but the meaning of like, like, if you what can you look forward to? Right? Like, if you feel you're gonna be stuck in there forever. Mhmm.
Josué:That is your own almost like unconscious limbo, right? Like you've created for yourself. I think that just knowing that you're kind of stuck for now. But that once you find something that can be your North Star to start moving, that makes it a lot easier. I know my my my therapist that was a couple years ago, that was the first thing that kind of came up.
Josué:She was like, but what do you want to do? What's your North Star? I was like, I don't really know. Don't have one. And that was was rough.
Josué:That made it really hard to kind of justify doing anything. Now, if there's nothing to do. Like, if this if this feels like a sacrifice, is a sacrifice for what? If this is if you're paying a cost, you're paying a price. What are what are you what are you buying?
Josué:Right now, what are you paying it for? What is that for? And if there was no nothing at the other end, that that's harder. So so I'll come back to you, Marc. Like, do you do you have an idea of what's next or what could come later?
Marc:Yeah. I I do have do have ideas and I do have goals that I'm hoping to accomplish in the future in terms of a job and what that looks like, whether that's you know, becoming more of a supervisor and supervising interns, whether that's, you know, maybe branching out and starting my own practice, you know, who knows? There are ideas and I do have goals and ambitions in mind. So like, that's what makes this just a little bit easier is knowing that I have an idea of the direction I want to go into, like I want to go to. So that's what makes it like, it gives me more of like a, alright, this is why I am putting myself through this.
Marc:And this is why, like, I told you, like, oh, I'm just gonna kinda grin and bear this for a while because I know what I'm working towards and what I want to achieve. And while this is not ideal, this is not really the situation that I really want to be in. It's a means to the end, which is which is what I'm looking for. And I think that my end goals, you know, or the ideas of end goals that I have in mind are worth this moment in time where I just am overworked.
Josué:I'll I'll I'll provide one more media example, which is in The Matrix Revolutions, Neo finds himself in limbo or mobile station that in in in the movie. And it's like a train station literally between the real world and the matrix. And in that space, he is kind of panicking at the beginning. Right? He's like, he literally, like, runs literally running in a circle.
Josué:Like, if the place just loops on itself, there's no there's no way out. And it's not connected to to anything. So he's completely isolated. And there, he's able to and and what I'm saying is like, being in if you if you feel like you're in that kind of state, like you're stuck in an in between state, you're not sure what to do next, you're not sure what's the right move or anything like that. That is also an opportunity of to to reflect and and really relax.
Josué:And like, maybe the idea that you're not you have nothing to chase can be is an opportunity to take a step back, reconsider everything. Even sometimes, like, not having a path that you're on can be can be freeing, can be liberating, and can then allow you to draw a new map or consider new possibilities that you didn't think before. So, you know, I think we've gone through, like, different examples. Right? Like, like, it can be a very neutral space.
Josué:It can be an it can be a scary space, but it can also be just another opportunity to like, once you find yourself again, I keep I keep, like, in a visual sense, I keep thinking of it as a place where there's, a fog all around and you can't see the other end. Right? But you don't even know what you're looking for. So there's not just a North Star, but, like, you can't tell anything. But once once if you can if you can kinda calm down, right, like Neo does in the movie, like, starts thinking clearly, then he's able to kinda think about what he's going to do next.
Josué:Even understand sometimes, think a big part of it is, like, he doesn't even know where he is in in that scene in the movie. And he's got to take a step back so that he can even understand the fact that there is an in between that that's even possible, which I think people sometimes don't. Maybe that's one of the things that's most surprising. It's like, I know what I was doing, and I don't know where I'm going. But what's this?
Josué:What's this where I am right now? What just happened? And just understanding that that's a part of the process can I think can be a little comforting that it can be, again, like, like the way they did it in the matrix? It's like, it is literally a train station that for a while doesn't connect to anything. But eventually, a train and does arrive.
Josué:Any of that resonator? Bring up any other things.
Marc:I think that kind of sums up this kind of feeling that I'm in right now where, like, I know what I've done to to kind of work towards the things that I I want to achieve. I know what roughly what the end goal looks like, but this whole middle in between area, what the what the hell is this?
Josué:Nobody told me who had a train to
Lara:show up.
Marc:Yeah. I'm just sitting here waiting for a train and and my phone's on low battery. I'm like, what am I doing? I think that that sums it up pretty nicely.
Josué:We joke about like being the same person, but at different periods in time. Lara being the oldest, obviously, right currently at the end state, right representing that that like, hey, I made
Lara:it That a whole like month and a half more.
Josué:You know, so so you know, like you made it you're there. Right? I think I think, hopefully, you know, if if we were to go into details about how we got here, like Lara said before, like, I've but I've I've been there. I've I've I've had the shitty job. I've been in a situation that I didn't like.
Josué:I've so hopefully, that's helpful as well to know that those stories exist, fictional and nonfictional. And and there are different periods. Right? And and you can you can tap into those as well. In many ways, there are think there are some lessons there.
Josué:But like like my first one of my first teachers in grad school ever told me, like, she she said at the time, she said, internship is the time to figure out what you don't want to do. I've expanded that to, like, I think always is is a is a time to figure out what you don't want to do. I think that's a lesson that you keep learning constantly. And and so I like that reframing. I was like, this sucks.
Josué:It's not like it it's a it's another lesson learned. It's like, now I know another thing that I don't like. Mhmm. We'll do that one again. I'll do that differently.
Josué:Hopefully, you can learn from it. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Any closing thoughts?
Lara:I got nothing.
Josué:Got nothing. Marc, you're kinda close, but any real closing thoughts?
Marc:I was gonna say is, like, I I feel like I I gave a good closing thought of My
Josué:closing thought is that I gave a good closing thought. I agree. It's good. Well, let us know if any of these examples of being in a state of limbo resonate, if any of those examples are helpful, we needed we need more examples. So please share them in the community spaces, which you can find in the show notes Remember to geek out and do good.
Josué:And for more geek therapy, visit geektherapy.org, and, we'll be back next week. Bye. Geek Therapy is a five zero one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.