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We have entered a new era that is transforming all aspects of our lives and work is no exception! It is in these moments of great transformation that we must think differently when we talk about work and move away from the notion that work equals job, equals employment.
It is more than that! It defines who we are, what we do, how much money we make, how we live, who we know, how we feel, what we learn, even where we live, the people we hang around with. It can bring status, fulfilment, achievement as well as frustration, burn-out, disenchantment. When we stop seeing work as simply employment and look at it as a world of opportunities where we can put our talents to work in areas we are passionate about, the perspective changes!
This is what this podcast is all about. Exploring the world of work from different perspectives with guest speakers who share their stories, and views on how their world of work has changed and what we can expect to see in the future. It is bringing to the table different disciplines and professions with the mission to bring the concept of work closer to people and people closer to work with a WOW!
Subscribe to the WoW on your favourite podcast platforms and watch the episodes on Paola Granati You Tube channel.
I think accountability is shared between, you know, me as an individual. How do I show up at work? Me as a leader? How do I lead people with humanity and give them what they need to do their work at their full potential? And then us as an organization, how do we create a culture and an environment where we also prioritize our people, not just the customers or the profits or the benefits that we want to bring.
Paola:Welcome back, everyone, to part 2 of this episode of the World of Work podcast, where we talk about complex world of people and of emotions at work together with my guest, Roxanna Cristina Petrus. And as you can tell by the snippet in the introduction, we expand the conversation as well to talk about the fundamental role that leaders also need to play to make sure we create those right conducive cultures to high performance and well-being. But ultimately, it is a shared responsibility. It's no longer about pointing fingers, guys. It's about making sure we're all accountable in our own way for our world of work.
Paola:Well, with no further ado, let's tune in to part 2.
Roxana:If you want your team to be productive and work together well and communicate efficiently and achieve all those, you know, KPIs that you have, what's happening with your team? If they are, what are you doing so you're supporting them, and how can you keep that going? If they're not, where are the obstacles? Where's the disconnect? What are people telling you?
Roxana:Because we do check ins. Right? I think mostly there's have 1 on ones with the people. They have team check ins. What are you hearing, actually?
Roxana:So if your people are saying, we're stressed, we're too much under pressure, we're scared we're gonna lose our jobs, we cannot do this anymore, or we need to take vacation because we're close to burnout. How are you navigating that? And if you don't know how to navigate that, what kind of support do you need? Because I think a lot of the times, the assumption is leaders should just know. And I'm saying, well, I think leaders should be supported in developing this kind of skills.
Roxana:We're not necessarily just because now the way we do work is changing, and there's new kinds of doing leadership. And the role of the leader has changed so much. Right? We're now supporting In what way
Paola:in what way have you seen the role of leadership change as as as a role? And and this is a deep question, actually. Mhmm. Because I know there are organizations Mhmm. Whereby it's only about the numbers.
Paola:Mhmm. So the check ins are about the numbers hardly ever. And if the team member says I'm stressed, I'm on burnout, that's okay. You're the wrong person for the job. It's so simple as that.
Paola:I mean, I'm being very blunt. Apologies. You know? I don't mean it in in Mhmm. That blunt way.
Paola:But they may package it nicely, but, ultimately, they're gonna put that person to the side. Mhmm. So it's very contextual. Each organization is different. Cultures are different, etcetera.
Paola:But you were saying that you've seen, anyway, the role of leadership change. I'm curious to hear your how you've seen that as well evolve in the world of work, you know, the the world of leadership. And and is it is it actually pacing the change, or is it leading the change? It's kinda like our leaders lagging a little bit behind with society and how, you know, individuals no longer want to, like you were saying before, like, be stressed and definitely not burned out, and they they kinda wanna have a normal pace in life, whatever that may mean normal may mean. Mhmm.
Paola:But so are leaders able to lead that as well internally in organizations, or are they pacing it? And once again, it's never black and white. But I'm curious. You know? Yeah.
Paola:Talk about change in leadership.
Roxana:Yeah. And I think there's organizations and organizations. Right? Depends on what's going on. And I think with this big movement towards working in more agile ways, more flexible ways.
Roxana:Right? And, also, with this, what's been happening in the world, people working from home or now working more hybrid. I think there's a shift also coming from employees that reflects back to the organization of what do we need and how do we work together so we're all, you know, more satisfied with the work. Because, for example, if people are saying, we want to work hybrid or from home, that means flexibility. But then the company and the leaders have to trust that you're going to be an accountable adult that does their job.
Roxana:Right? That if you put an appointment in the middle of the day, then you're still going to get your, you know, job done. You're not going to, you know, put everything on your team because you want to go on vacation or whatever is going to happen. But to build that trust means that we look at employees differently. You're not just there to deliver.
Roxana:You're there to be a human being. And if you're happy and your needs are met, you're going to perform so much better. And there's lots of studies on this, right, that show us that happy employees are going to be satisfied. They're going to be productive. They're going to collaborate.
Roxana:They're going to take care of your business and of your customers, and they're going to get you where you want to go. But then the question is, how do we keep them happy? And I think I'm I mean, I'm fortunate enough to work with companies where there's a bit of more openness, right, towards employee centricity, where we can talk about well-being and psychological safety. And even if we don't understand everything there is to know about this, and, of course, there's still a lot of learning that we do on all sides, at least we have the opportunity to open a door and have this kind of discussions because there's a real need for it. Because we understand now the cost of retaining your employees are so much lower than if you have to hire someone new, onboard them, train them, make them part of the organization.
Roxana:And I think it's valuing the people that you have and knowing how to show support and recognition and be there no matter what happens, when they make mistakes, when they try to innovate, when they don't achieve their numbers, plays a big role into how companies are changing all throughout, but also into understanding that the roles of leaders nowadays are most focused on creating safe environments where people can work at their best. That means I'm there to support my people to work at my best. And sometimes I see that leaders that are being now promoted are not experts in their areas as this used to be the case in the past. Right? You were the best from your team.
Roxana:You got to be the leader, and then you have to lead them. But where is the gap between the leadership skills and the human skills and soft skills? And now we're maybe promoting more people that are skilled at communication, motivating people, negotiating, have more soft skills, even though they're not experts, and they trust that my people are the experts and they're going to get the job done. So I think there's a big movement that's going into that direction, of course, sometimes faster, sometimes slower. But that's the way work is being done now, and that's where we want to go, where we can trust and create safe environments for people to do their work.
Roxana:And we're there to support and navigate what that looks like.
Paola:That's that's that that's wow. There you go. That's world of work moment. That's a wow. That's definitely a a wow moment realization, and and it's a it's, an important shift Mhmm.
Paola:That will need to occur. Let's at least pretend and believe that it's important that it occurs. Belief is an important aspect of this whole conversation. Because short of that, there is there is I see, risks of not only having burned out people and and kinda frustrated people who work in in organizations that they're not passionate about, or they're they they don't, you know, work for leaders that don't, you know, value them. And that has a whole series of consequences in their own personal life.
Paola:So it's like the spillover between, you know, your professional life and your personal life. And a little bit, I think this is another paradigm shift. Let's move away from this illusion that, you know, we are we switch on one switch, when we go to work, and we switch it off. And then we go back home, and it's like, you know, there are no spillovers. That's really illusion.
Paola:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I mean so how essential it is that leaders, especially the position that they have, it's a position of power, it's position of decision, it's a position of influence. And and therefore, it is hugely, you know, important that they understand the impact of their way of leading. That has to go beyond just the technical aspect. Right? And and, I I do think it's a great thing if the door is open for this type of conversation and, to actually make leaders accountable as well for that.
Roxana:Yes. For sure. I think accountability is shared between, you know, me as an individual. How do I show up at work? Me as a leader, how do I lead people with humanity and give them what they need to do their work at their full potential?
Roxana:And then us as an organization, how do we create a culture and an environment where we also prioritize our people, not just the customers or the profits or the benefits that we want to bring. Right? And it's a shared responsibility where if everyone shows up, again, we're moving towards the ideal scenario. But that's what the world of work should be going towards, where we actually everyone, you know, goes into the same direction and we work towards the same goals. That's what brings meaning at work.
Roxana:That's what makes all of us understand that I do have an impact. I do what I do every day at work makes a difference or not. This is the impact that I can bring. This is the value that I have. This is how I can use my skills.
Roxana:And if I do that, if I'm aware of that, no matter where I'm at in my in my work, in my position, it's going to make a big, big difference because it's part of something bigger than us. That's meaning and purpose. That's what we want.
Paola:And and by impact doesn't relationship impact. Right? So even having I don't know. You may be having or you think you have a very manual job and a boring, repetitive job, but perhaps during lunch or in a coffee break, and there's a colleague that comes up to you needing desperately that report. So that's on on, let's say, a a task perspective or perhaps just needing somebody to talk to because they've had a bad day with their their boss or whatever it is.
Paola:It's it's true. It's it's really this aspect that every day, every moment, there is an opportunity to make an impact or at least help someone or to or realize that we are an active part Mhmm. Of this world of work. You know? And and it's more than that job.
Paola:We are, you know and I think this is so beautiful. And we hardly talk about the beauty of this, that goes so much more beyond the aspect of the job and the job description and then and the technical hygiene factors. Right? And, and it's so heartwarming to speak with somebody like yourself who has, who also sees this huge importance that work plays as a verb as opposed to just the job of a noun. You know, it's to work actually means to perform and to relate, and to ideally, you know, make a difference in the small things and that that we that we do, right, every day.
Paola:Yeah.
Roxana:I mean, I'm definitely an idealist, you know, at heart. I I do believe in that. And to go back to my first point, it's we always have an opportunity to see how we show a bit of kindness, care, or respect in the workplace no matter what we do. I think that's the the beauty of it. And a lot of the times because you asked before, you know, how do we help leaders navigate that?
Roxana:A lot of the times, it starts really with the really small things. So if I'm a leader and I ask you, how are you doing today? Am I actually listening to what you're saying as a response? Or one of the more brutal questions that I sometimes encourage leaders to ask their people in 1 on ones is, have you been thinking about quitting your job lately? And if yes, what made you consider this?
Roxana:And after understanding what the people are saying, then saying, how can I help that we don't get to that scenario? What do you need? What can the company have? But that means bravery, courage, right, vulnerability, and being present and being there in those conversations. And we can do that as leaders.
Roxana:We can do that as colleagues. We can do that with everyone we meet in our work and in our day. And there's so much power to it.
Paola:Absolutely. We will have another podcast on that because because it also requires creating that psychological safety where people feel that you're the wolf in disguise. Kinda like you you come across as the sheep and not not a sheep. I think it was wrong analogy. But this this this caring individual, all of a sudden, out of the blue, people are not gonna even open up even if you may ask those questions.
Paola:So I do. So how do you also create an environment, a culture that's genuinely oriented towards not only having those questions, but I feel people feel comfortable to be genuine in their answers. Mhmm. Like, if I trust you as a leader, I would open up and say, yeah. I've I've been thinking of quitting or, you know, I'm not doing particularly well, whatever it is.
Paola:Right? But
Roxana:Yeah.
Paola:If if that's missing Mhmm. There's no employee survey that's going to raise that. Right?
Roxana:For sure. And I think, you know, as you mentioned, this is more about how can I be authentic and myself at work as a leader as well? Because it's more of I cannot this cannot be faked. Right? I cannot force it for years years to be someone that I'm not.
Roxana:So what's important to me as a leader when I lead my people? And it can be different things based also on my values. Right? Maybe I value collaboration more than innovation. Maybe I value stability more than, you know, quick results.
Roxana:And that's okay. But then that informs how I show up for my people, and I communicate that. So the more, you know, clarity people have, our leader functions in this way. This is what's important to them. This is what they keep communicating.
Roxana:This is how they keep showing up. Then me, as an employee, will have clarity on how I can manage the relationship with you as well and when and how I can approach you in what ways. And I think, as you also mentioned, part of a leader's, you know, responsibilities nowadays, which has changed immensely, is looking out for what's going on with each employee in the realm of well-being and mental health. That means I need to be aware of what to look for. What are the signs that someone might be in a challenging situation right now, that they might be struggling with mental health, you know, problems or stress and burnout.
Roxana:And then when I noticed that, how do I communicate that with them? How do I show up for them and show my support? And that's not a skill that we used to have because we didn't use to talk about mental health in the workplace. And now we want to and we need to. So how do we support leaders in developing that skill?
Roxana:That's a very specific skill. What kind of words we use? How do we use them? What support do we have available in the company, and how can we facilitate that? So having, you know it's more about how do I, as a leader, show care for my people, and how do I do it as myself, as the person that I am?
Paola:Yeah. I I mean, yeah, I can already imagine 10 podcasts and actually a whole TV show and a Netflix series on this. So the the last word before I ask you, like, what's wowing you and what's really, you know, also which which I I think I couldn't kind of imagine what's you, but, I will leave that for for you, of course, to share, with us. But since you were saying so before I ask you that, the the last question would be you were saying about what to look for, what leaders need to look for, and and it is a skill. And it's linked to what I think we were saying before.
Paola:A lot of things that we're talking about are skills. They're not it's not philosophy. It's not theory. It's skills. They're practical, things that people can do through questioning, to the way they're positioning, their through body language, words, emotions, da da da da.
Paola:A whole series of
Roxana:Exactly. The things,
Paola:neurology and all of that wonderful stuff. But you were saying leaders don't know necessarily what to look for when it comes to burnout or when it comes to people not being well. And so what would you say are those 2, 3, 4, maybe, signs that a leader or not only a leader, like, even a colleague, you know, can look for or should be mindful of or kinda like that can signal, hey. This person's really not going through is not really doing well.
Roxana:Yeah. I think that's such a valuable question because we we need that. Right? We need from all sides to pay more attention to the people we work with and see what's happening with us because it's not so easy to share this as well. Right?
Roxana:It makes us feel very vulnerable and exposed when we go to someone and say, I'm struggling. I'm not okay. I need support. And so I think the easiest thing to spot is changes in behaviors. Right?
Roxana:We know how this person normally is. So for having someone that is, speaking a lot in meetings, asking a lot of questions, being very present, and very suddenly, they're not. So they're not really you know, you you see them more absent. They're not asking so much, not contributing so much, and are sharing their ideas. There might be a shift.
Roxana:Of course, it's more about, you know, change that stays. If it happens into one meeting, there might be nothing. But if it's more about days, weeks, months, then we need to pay a lot of attention. As well with how we look at tasks. Right?
Roxana:If there's someone that used to be quite, you know, more organized and they used to deliver products or projects or task in time, and now they're starting to miss deadlines or be late or make a lot of mistakes in their work, which is not something how they used to work. That's a shift in behavior. So we pay attention when something changes in behaviors that we know. But that means I have to know you. So how do you normally work and show up in the workplace and pay attention to that?
Roxana:Right? So we look at that. And then we look at what words people use. Because even if I'm not coming to you and say, I need help right now, I might say repeatedly, I'm self stressed. I have so much to do.
Roxana:There's so much on my plate. I've been working through the weekend. Right? I have so many emails to answer to, and we do this again repeatedly and repeatedly. And we notice this person has been in this kind of, you know, mood for a while.
Roxana:That means something might be going on with them. And then, ideally, we would have opportunities to catch that as often as we can. Right? If I have, you know, coffee meetings with my team or my colleagues, if we're in a meeting and we do whatever we're doing, check-in, and we're hearing these kind of things. Or if I'm a leader and I have a 1 on 1 with my my, people, right, I can ask them how you're doing and see what comes out.
Roxana:But usually changes and repeated, you know, behaviors and feelings give us a bit more of an indication that something's going on. And if we're not sure, we can just very kindly ask. Hey. I've noticed this. Right?
Roxana:I've noticed maybe lately you're a bit more absent, and I'm just wanting to check-in to see if you're okay, if there's something going on, if you wanna share with me. I'm here to listen. That's all. Powerful stuff to to ask.
Paola:Yes. Powerful, powerful stuff. And I hope people people are taking notes of all these wonderful tips because they really are extremely, extremely valuable. Thank you so much. And before we end this, like, super fantastic session, what is it that's wowing you at the moment?
Roxana:That's always a good question. And, I mean, I think as you said, you can anticipate my my answer. It's always people. I think I'm I'm endlessly fascinated by, you know, the complexity of people, their courage, their vulnerability, and just the the power to just be themselves and also the painful exploration. I think, you know, a lot of people that I meet, my clients or the the companies that I work with, there's a lot of, yeah, really bravery to make changes and to understand more and to learn more, which I highly appreciate.
Roxana:And I think I do, from my perspective, with the people that I interact with, we talk about, you know, mental health, well-being, psychological safety quite a lot, and I love to see there's a bit more openness towards that and towards thinking about people as people, as humans, and how we support them and what do they need in the workplace and how do we navigate that. And, yeah, I'm endlessly inspired by it.
Paola:No. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. And I'm endlessly inspired by what you're saying. Well, here we are with a wonderful conversation with my guest speaker, Roxanna, who I do thank once again wholeheartedly for having shared her insights, her expertise and especially her optimism, which I must admit I share.
Paola:If you enjoyed it, make sure you subscribe, share, and just keep that conversation flowing because if you're in a boat, okay,