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As a business and community focused bank working all day, every day with business leaders, we discuss what's effective in highly successful businesses today. Each episode features an interview discussing business practices on topics such as: company culture, fraud prevention, change management, economic data, wealth management tips, and more.
You can find more content like this on our website: https://www.nw.bank/newsroom/education/podcasts
Northwest Bank. Equal Housing Lender. Member FDIC.
Hello, and thank you for joining me. I'm Luther Lampert, Director of Digital Banking Strategies with NorthWest Bank. On today's show, we're going to focus on fraudsters. Unfortunately, we regularly see bad actors who attempt to scare, confuse, or otherwise manipulate innocent people into giving out financial information, or worse yet, giving direct access to their funds to these fraudsters. With me today is Sarah Harvey.
Luther Lampert:Sara is Northwest Bank's BSA officer and manager of our fraud department. Sara has been with the bank for sixteen years. She's been on our fraud team for eleven years and has managed that team for the last seven years. During that time, she has seen a lot, and she is joining us today to help share her experiences with you in the hopes to provide you with tools to prevent you from falling victim to a scam. Sarah, thanks for joining us today.
Sara Harvey:Thank you for having me.
Luther Lampert:So, Sara, you're the manager of Northwest Bank's fraud department. But one thing I wanted to touch on first, because I know it's something that we, our employees get calls on often. How often is your team fielding calls or making calls to customers and referring to yourselves specifically that way? So to say, you know, this is Sara from the Northwest Bank fraud department. How how often, if ever, is your team doing that?
Sara Harvey:We never do. Our role in the fraud department is we work with our frontline staff to have those conversations with our customers. We do know that our customers, you know, they value their relationships that they have built with the bankers and the tellers. And those are the banking staff that they know and trust and those are the ones that they wanna talk about fraudulent activity with and especially have maybe those difficult conversations with with somebody that they they know within Northwest Bank. So really, Northwest Bank fraud department will not call our customers.
Sara Harvey:It will be somebody from the frontline staff. However, when it comes to debit card transactions that are questionable or potentially fraudulent, we do outsource those calls to our debit card issuer to reach out to our cardholders on behalf of Northwest Bank. This communication will primarily be via text. For those cardholders that have a text enabled device or a cell phone. The body of the text message will say that this is from Northwest Bank's fraud center, and then we'll have the information regarding the transaction in question.
Sara Harvey:If you do not have a text enabled device, then our debit card issuer will attempt to call on Northwest Bank's behalf. Their welcome message, when you're when you pick up the phone, will say this is the fraud detection center calling. So I just wanted to, make you aware that, you know, there will be calls for your debit card transactions on our behalf, but it will not say that it's Northwest Bank's fraud department.
Luther Lampert:And some other things to look for in there as well. You know, does the text message include information that is tied to my card, right? Does it have the last four digits of my card? Can I see that activity actually taking place within online banking or by using, CardSecure? So if you're not certain if it's legitimate, there should be some other telltale signs of, yes, this is for sure tied to my card or no, they could potentially be phishing for information.
Sara Harvey:Yep, that's exactly right. There should be things on there that will help you identify that this is a legitimate, text message or phone call. But again, as I said earlier, if you're not comfortable with it, don't reply to the text message, hang up the phone and call us. We have all of these, cases from our issuer at our, we're available to review those and we can go over the transactions with you. So again, if you're not comfortable, don't reply to the text, hang up the phone call, and give us a call.
Sara Harvey:We also if you if you want these contact numbers in your phone saved as a trusted contact, reach out to your local banker and they can give you the phone number that the calls will come from, and then the the text message phone number. So you can have those saved. And again, it's another element to feel like you, you know, you're protecting yourself and you know that you're getting this communication from a trusted number.
Luther Lampert:So really what we want to impress upon any listeners today is, you know, just take a second and think about what a caller may be asking you. You know, Sara, if as a customer, someone has questions about whomever they're talking with, you know, what would your advice be to them, if they're just not comfortable with the phone call they're on?
Sara Harvey:You know, it's okay to hang up. If you if you get a call and you're not comfortable with what is being asked of you, or that you just aren't sure that it really is Northwest Bank calling you, hang up the phone. And then call back. Call back to a number at Northwest Bank that you know to be for our bank and ask for that employee that just called you. If Sarah Harvey called you, call back and ask for Sarah Harvey.
Sara Harvey:Or whoever you talk with at the bank, ask about the conversation that you just had to to vet it and see if it really was a legitimate phone call.
Luther Lampert:And if you're not certain which phone number that is, you can head to our website, nw.bank, find a phone number that's listed there, and give us a call. And we should be able to get you in touch with that employee that called or you can find out that it wasn't an employee that called. So impersonating the bank is one type of of impersonation scam, but there are several others out there. Sara, can you touch on some of the other fraud schemes or scams that you see our customers fall for?
Sara Harvey:Yeah. I think I really wanna talk more about the impersonation scam because that really is it could be multiple different types of scams, but it ultimately comes down to being an impersonation. Somebody pretending to be somebody that they aren't. So an impersonation scam, it's exactly what it sounds like. It is a scam or a type of fraud where a scammer pretends to be someone they are not.
Sara Harvey:Typically, they're impersonating someone deemed trustworthy. You know, they're gonna call and say that they're a bank employee. They're somebody from Northwest Bank's fraud department. They're gonna say they're from local law enforcement. They could also say they're a family member or a close friend, a celebrity, a representative from a company that you frequently transact with, or even a government official.
Sara Harvey:You know, we we really haven't seen it all here at Northwest Bank. Within an impersonation scam or any scam, the ultimate goal for the scammer is to trick our customers into sending them money. They convince the victim into providing bank account information, online banking information so they can then access their bank accounts. They ask for personal identification information. They'll use this in an identity theft scam.
Sara Harvey:They may even ask you to allow them access onto your computer. You download an app. They get on your computer, and then they can see everything, including your bank accounts, your passwords. You know, and then once this part of the of the scam on happens, the that's where it unfolds. That's really where the scam takes place.
Sara Harvey:It really is successful because the scammer will create a false sense of urgency regarding the situation. They will convince their customer to act fast, not allowing them time to stop and think about the situation that they currently are facing. The scammer will tell you, you know, your accounts are currently compromised. This is why you need to act now or your money's gonna be gone forever. This really is the the what happens in all of these scams.
Sara Harvey:And I like to kinda group them all into the impersonation scam because it's somebody pretending to be somebody they're not in most scams that we see. Unfortunately, we have seen customers send thousands of dollars to scammers due to this. You know, they're a victim, they're acting quickly, and they do things that the scammers request because of that sense of urgency. These scammers are really are good at what they do. They have all the tools to convince you, to do something that maybe you normally wouldn't do and make it sound like it's a legit request.
Sara Harvey:They know what to say to convince the customers to do it. They know what to say to make it sound like it's a legitimate phone call from that legitimate company or person. And then they know how to scare you and say that there are consequences if you don't do what they're requesting. We've heard consequences as your accounts are compromised, so all of your money is gonna be gone. They say that there's gonna be legal consequences, either an arrest or you're gonna face fines.
Sara Harvey:They've also said, you know, your private, personal, or sensitive information will be leaked about you when, of course, none of that is true. None of that exists.
Luther Lampert:So a couple of things I wanna touch on there, Sarah. You you made it clear, but I just wanna reiterate, these aren't just things that you and your team have read about or been made aware of that could potentially happen. These are things, and I know you can't get into specific details of specific instances, but these things have happened to Northwest Bank customers and across all of our branch locations, right?
Sara Harvey:Yes, absolutely. I mean, that really is why I know so much about these type of scams, is because unfortunately, I had to learn from our customers who became victims of these scams. Know, we really at Northwest Bank, we've seen this far too often. We've seen it in different forms. You know, there's the tech support scam, the merchant scam pretending to be Amazon, PayPal, Microsoft, any of the antivirus companies.
Sara Harvey:We see it in romance scams. We've seen it in celebrity romance scams, local law enforcement impersonation, FBI impersonation, IRS, FDIC, grandparent scam. You know, we really have seen all of these throughout our branches at at Northwest Bank. You know, and then within those scams, we've seen our customers send money as part of this through wires. They will withdraw large sums of cash, and it's actually being mailed through the postal service.
Sara Harvey:Or they're having somebody come pick it up. They're having a courier come pick up that cash. They're buying gift cards and sending the gift card information to these scammers. We've seen customers write checks as part of the scam, and then quick movement of funds. So they'll move it out through platforms such as Zelle, Cash App, Venmo.
Sara Harvey:And then we're seeing an uptick in customers utilizing Bitcoin terminals. So they're taking cash out. They've received a QR code from the scammers and then they go to the Bitcoin and they essentially send their money to the scammer's Bitcoin wallet through that QR code.
Luther Lampert:And I think you've kinda touched on this, but what are some of those red flags that our customers or anyone should be aware of if they're getting a call or a text that they didn't expect and and they think that they you might be falling for a scam? You know, what's what's that first big thing? Is there a checklist of items that should really make you question who you're communicating with?
Sara Harvey:Yeah. I mean, right where what you just said, one of the first red flags is unexpected contact. Somebody reaches out to you that you weren't expecting. It might be through a call or a text message, an email, and an instant message through social media platform. Usually these are out of the blue, they're unexpected, and their their request is also one that you won't expect or it's asking for private information.
Sara Harvey:Information that these people should already have for you or it's just something that you're not comfortable giving. But one of the biggest red flags really is it is an unexpected contact. And, you know, like I said, this could be from a merchant that you frequently transact with. One we see quite often is Amazon. You get something in your email about your Amazon account.
Sara Harvey:There's a link to follow, and then that's where the scam really unfolds. One thing to do with that, you know, if you have an Amazon account, log in to your Amazon account and see if there's any indication that there's issues. Social media platform, it's really being used heavily by scammers. It's really easy to mimic or compromise somebody's, like say, Facebook account, and then reach out to friends you haven't talked to in ten years. You know, we're seeing that.
Sara Harvey:Another red flag in these scams is the urgency to act now. And then also within that is being threatened. So the communications from the scammers, it's very quick moving. They want you to act first and think later. They give you that sense of urgency.
Sara Harvey:If you don't do the transaction now, there's gonna be consequences. And those consequences could be financial, legal, or even reputation. If, you know, if you push back on these scammers that you're not gonna do what they're asking you, they're gonna become threatening. That's a red flag. A legitimate company or friend or bank will not threaten you if you don't do what they're asking you to do.
Sara Harvey:Another red flag, they're requesting sensitive information, especially information that they should have. They're asking you for your full social security number. They're asking you for, you know, your PIN number along with your debit card number. They're asking for your banking credentials. Those are things that nobody should be asking you for.
Sara Harvey:Don't give that to somebody on the phone, in an email, in an instant message. That is pretty much involved in all of these scams also giving out sensitive information either about your bank account or yourself. And then in my personal opinion, the biggest red flag, and we see this constantly, is our customer customers are being told to lie about the transaction that they're coming into the bank. They're being told by these scammers that, you know, your bank is in on the compromise of your account, So you need to lie to them before you send that wire or before you take that cash out of your account. You need to lie to them and tell them what the purpose of this transaction is.
Sara Harvey:If you ever are being told by somebody to lie to your bank, it's a scam. All day, every day, 100%, this is a scam and you need to hang up on them and come talk to your bank banker and make sure that your account really is protected. We're not in on scams. We're not gonna help the scammers. We are not compromising your account.
Sara Harvey:We really are here to protect you. But that is, in my personal opinion, that is the biggest red flag in these scams that you are being instructed to lie to your banker. And then another one we see too is, you know, the the saying, if it's too good to be true, that really that really falls into place in these scams. If you have to send a small amount of money to inherit millions of dollars from a family member that you do not know to even exist, if it's too good to be true, it really is.
Luther Lampert:So if you're dealing with a situation like this and you're starting to think that maybe you're being scammed or you just have questions about it, what are some steps that you can take? What should you do to really test legitimacy of of this person, of this transaction?
Sara Harvey:Yeah. The biggest thing, you know, stop talking to the person, because a lot of these these scammers are if they're pretending to be somebody you know, they're reaching out to you with a method that is not normal. It's not a normal phone call from a number you know. They're reaching out to you through Facebook or WhatsApp or some platform such as that, or you're getting an email from an email address you don't know, you know, hang up, stop communicating with them, and communicate with them how you know to be a legitimate way to transact. If it's a family member, you've probably had their phone number for years.
Sara Harvey:You've text them. You call them consistently. Use that phone number. Same with the bank. You know the bank number.
Sara Harvey:Call back. Start asking questions. If you have a name of who you talked with, ask. Ask if that person is currently employed with Northwest Bank. You'll you'll know right away because our our staff will be able to tell you if they're currently, an employer or not.
Sara Harvey:You know, the biggest thing is just take a moment, pause, slow down the situation and really start asking questions.
Luther Lampert:With all this going on, we have bank staff trained to assist with these sorts of scenarios. What sorts of things are our frontline doing to help prevent or maybe, you know, like suss out if a customer is falling victim to one of these scams?
Sara Harvey:Yeah. Our frontline, you know, they're trained to ask questions. I know it can come across as we're asking questions to be nosy, or being invasive. We really are asking questions to pick up on maybe on these red flags that align with these scams. Again, our ultimate goal is to protect your money.
Sara Harvey:We do not want it to get into the hands of a scammer. So we're gonna ask questions. And, you know, again, I just wanna I just wanna make it clear that we're not trying to be nosy, but the best way to understand the situation is ask questions and to know our customers. You know, if you go into a bank, to a branch, and you know the bankers really well, you know them, they know you, they can pick up on things that just don't seem normal for you as a customer. And so they're gonna ask you questions to understand it more.
Sara Harvey:And we have tools. I provided tools about different scams. So they may even hand you a flyer about scams that we see. I have created a flyer and it's a series of questions just to understand, if maybe you are a victim of a scam. And these are all questions on this form based on things we actually have seen happen to our customers at Northwest Bank.
Sara Harvey:So you may be handed this flyer during a large cash transaction, and asked to read over it. And read over it, and if any of them you say yes to, again, it's time to pause, really question what's going on, and trust your banker.
Luther Lampert:Trust your banker and trust your gut if you think anything could be fishy about some interaction you're having with, whether it be a merchant, somebody that you're trying to buy or sell things from through a social media platform, or from an unsolicited call that you took. Make sure that you're keeping an eye out for some of these red flags that we've talked about today. Our conversation continued on, we're actually going to move that to another episode of the podcast to cover check fraud, and some different things to be on the lookout for there. If you're looking for some tools or resources to help you protect yourself against fraud or protect yourself against scammers, you can find information on our website. Head to nw.bank and check out our resources page.
Luther Lampert:We've got some great tools to help keep you protected and aware of what's going on in your accounts. That would be NB account alerts, NB card secure are just some of the tools that we offer so that you have full visibility into the transactions that are occurring on your accounts at Northwest Bank. So find more details there and be paying attention for our next episode, where we'll continue our conversation with Sara Harvey, manager of the fraud department here at Northwest Bank, as she'll go into more detail on check fraud and ways to protect yourself from those types of scams. Thank you for listening. You can keep checking our website, nw.bank, for more episodes of the podcast.
Luther Lampert:You can also find our podcasts on YouTube, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Apple Podcasts. Subscribe to get notifications every time we release a new episode. Thanks again.