Bryan, Adam, Steve, and the Oxide Friends are joined by the founders of the Oakland Ballers, the continuation of a long history of baseball in Oakland. There turns out to be a plenty in common between founding a computer company and founding a baseball team--and we both have our fans supporting us!
In addition to Bryan Cantrill and Adam Leventhal, we were joined by very special guests Paul Freedman and Bryan Carmel as well our somewhat-special boss, Steve Tuck.
In addition to Bryan Cantrill and Adam Leventhal, we were joined by very special guests Paul Freedman and Bryan Carmel as well our somewhat-special boss, Steve Tuck.
Some of the topics we hit on, in the order that we hit them:
- The Oakland Ballers
- Bryan and Adam at Manaea's no-no
- The Munson-Nixon line
- The Pioneer League
- Baseball's longest game
- Adam's neighbor, Bill George, scorer of the longest game
- Yolo Highwheelers
- BART's sponsorship of the Ballers
- J.T. Snow joins the Ballers
- J.T. saves Dusty's son
If we got something wrong or missed something, please file a PR! Our next show will likely be on Monday at 5p Pacific Time on our Discord server; stay tuned to our Mastodon feeds for details, or subscribe to this calendar. We'd love to have you join us, as we always love to hear from new speakers!
Creators & Guests
What is Oxide and Friends?
Oxide hosts a weekly Discord show where we discuss a wide range of topics: computer history, startups, Oxide hardware bringup, and other topics du jour. These are the recordings in podcast form.
Join us live (usually Mondays at 5pm PT) https://discord.gg/gcQxNHAKCB
Subscribe to our calendar: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ical/c_318925f4185aa71c4524d0d6127f31058c9e21f29f017d48a0fca6f564969cd0%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics
Paul, I am super, super excited to have the 2 of you on here. This is, so you should know that, I I I'm I'm with my, my cofounder, Steve Tuck, and with my close colleague Adam Leventhal. And all 3 of us are definitely are baseball fans. In fact, I did not grow up a baseball fan at all. And baseball, I have to say, and this is why I was hoping that we will get some folks here who are actually not baseball fans because I was in your shoes as an adult.
Bryan Cantrill:I grew up in Denver before the rockies were there, and I just couldn't understand why people got into baseball. Like, the idea of, like, traveling around to every ballpark in the country just struck me as, like, a mental illness, honestly, I gotta say. I just sounded deranged. And, Adam, I think the first, like, eye opening baseball game I went to was with you, actually. Adam, you're a Red Sox fan.
Bryan Cantrill:I am. And you are in the what's the line in Connecticut that design that divides Red Sox fans for me? Because there's gonna be Munson.
Adam Leventhal:The Munson Nixon line, Thurman Munson and Trot Nixon. So it's the line down Connecticut to divide the Yankees fans from the Red Sox fans, but not firmly enough, I would say.
Bryan Cantrill:You know, move over Wikipedia. Adam is is with you on the Connecticut knowledge celebrating the the victory of your Yukon Huskies. That's right. So you are on the Red Sox side of that line, grew up a baseball fan.
Adam Leventhal:Or, actually, I'm I'm right I'm right on that line, but my dad is from from the Boston area. So So I definitely grew up big Red Sox fan, to the point where my friends would come over with Yankees hats and my dad would force them to leave them outside our house.
Bryan Cantrill:You your friend can come in, but the hat may not. The hat must be inside.
Adam Leventhal:100%. There
Paul Freedman:are a lot of
Adam Leventhal:people who, who I'd say that to and they're like, your dad's horrible. And, but the red Sox fans are like, that makes sense. That's That's
Bryan Cantrill:a good that's a good good thing. Tough, but fair. That's good parenting. That's reasonable.
Adam Leventhal:Raised right.
Steve Tuck:Exactly. Take off your shoes. Take off your head.
Bryan Cantrill:Yeah. I would say if you're allowed to come into the the the Yankees fans allowed to come into the house, like, that's pretty flexible.
Steve Tuck:Yeah. The shoes soil the house. The hat soils the house.
Bryan Cantrill:So this made no sense to me growing up. All of this made no sense to me. And I growing Kirby said you were a sports fan.
Paul Freedman:I was a
Bryan Cantrill:sports fan,
Bryan Carmel:but I was good.
Bryan Cantrill:But Denver's a football town. And so the I and I and it was only as, and Steve, he grew up in the Bay, Giants fan.
Bryan Carmel:Giants fan.
Bryan Cantrill:Went to games in the stick, grew up in the stick.
Steve Tuck:In the in the eighties. In the eighties. Will Clark showed up.
Bryan Cantrill:I was I you didn't even let me I'm like, you need to start the countdown clock to when Will the Thrill Clark is gonna be mentioned. I literally couldn't even get that sentence out, and you're already mentioning Wilbur Thrill Clark.
Steve Tuck:So Good moments.
Bryan Cantrill:So, again, all of this just sounded odd to me. And, Adam, you and I went to an a's game, an a's red sox game, in 2012. And I at the time, my oldest son had just basically fallen in love with baseball, a love affair that has has persisted and endured. And, we went to that game, and you were explaining a bunch of the game to me. And, like, I didn't, you know, what a slider was and what a curve ball was.
Bryan Cantrill:And it was and that was 2012. And Paul and Brian, I think you were probably ace fan. I know you are both a ace fans. That season was just extraordinary, and it was what a great first season to be a baseball fan. And the and it was just like the whole thing about baseball was just it was it was it was eye opening and exuberant, and it felt like the a's experience is such a great experience.
Bryan Cantrill:And so that baseball kinda got into my DNA, and we don't talk about too frequently here because we know that neither of us is a sports fan but I I definitely I I understand why people look at this and just like perplexed but it's a great sport and it's so much fun to watch with people. I I love the fact it's got this the it's a sport you can nerd out about. Like, this is the original nerd sport. Adam, do you think is that fair to say? I mean, we Yeah.
Bryan Cantrill:Absolutely. It's like the obsession. And everything else?
Adam Leventhal:Yeah. The obsession with statistics and, I mean, I know there's lots of other fantasy leagues, but I feel like, you know, one of my experiences baseball was waking up and looking at the box scores from the night before and sort of reliving the game in this ridiculous textual format.
Bryan Cantrill:Which is amazing. Right? The fact that you can kinda look at a box score and know what happens. And it was it it's and it's also just a great way to bond with people. And the thing I love about baseball, I think, kind of unlike other sports, is it's really easy to be a fan of the sport, to go to a game.
Bryan Cantrill:And Adam, you and I have been to a lot of games together, and it's just fun to go watch a game even though you are both supporting opposite teams. Although, actually so Brian and Paul, Adam and I worked together for Sean and I as no hitter. Those of you don't know baseball, a no hitter is when the the the team, the, never gets a hit over the course of the game. The pitcher is able to go through the entire game without the other team ever getting a hit and getting on base as a result of a hit. And I had never seen a no hitter, of course.
Bryan Cantrill:Adam, you had never seen a no hitter, of course. No. And we are at the, we are in the 9th inning with 2 outs. And I remember Adam, I looked at you and I'm like, this is your first no hitters. Like, yeah, this would be my first no hitter.
Bryan Cantrill:I'm like, is there any part part of you that wants the A's to get a no hitter? He's like, no part of me. I, at 100% want the red sox to get a hit
Paul Freedman:right now.
Bryan Cantrill:It's No. I remember
Adam Leventhal:I remember that so distinctly. Hanley Ramirez was the first at bat. And I said, knock it out of the park, Hanley. And you turned to me. You're like, oh, dare you say a terrible person.
Adam Leventhal:Like, you said that to me.
Bryan Carmel:The funny thing about no hitters is is that it's, like, exciting in theory, but it's actually a pretty boring baseball game because It's
Bryan Cantrill:a very boring baseball game.
Bryan Cantrill:It's so fast. That you want to go to the
Bryan Carmel:game and no one gets a hit. That's the whole point of the no hitter. So, like, all the excitement of baseball is people getting hit bases and moving around and, like, you miss all that. So, like, it's exciting after it happens. But during the game, it's actually the worst worst game to see.
Steve Tuck:Well, I although I will say
Bryan Cantrill:It was pretty riveting at the time. It was pretty neat.
Steve Tuck:There are some moments where you've got, like, Gregor Blanco's catch and Matt Cain's perfect game. Like, the everyone hanging on every pitch and every play because you're waiting for a defensive play to keep the no hitter intact. Right. Baseball fans, it's like edge
Bryan Cantrill:of your seat. It's edge of your seat. So the and it so fast forward because, love the a's. Paul Bryan, you are a's fans. Unfortunately, we have the misfortune of having the worst ownership in sports.
Bryan Cantrill:We are not gonna we won't belabor this, but we have the absolute terrible owner who is ripping the heart out of the city and moving the team. And, and this is where I kind of wanna get to to our startup today and and Paul, Brian, what you are just the remarkable thing that you're pulling off because I think I saw this and obviously my heart is ripped out. You know, I think Steve, even as a as a Giants fan, you love that battle of the bay. You know, your heart is ripped out.
Steve Tuck:The A's or the Giants fans American League team.
Bryan Cantrill:Right. And, you you know, I think Adam obviously been he's like everyone feel every baseball fan sees that this is terrible, and it just felt very awful. And it felt like there was no positivity to be had. And Paul and Brian, you guys found some positivity. So Paul, I'd love to, like, where is the genesis for this outlandish startup idea that you had?
Bryan Cantrill:Because you're ace fans. Right?
Bryan Carmel:Yeah. Yeah. We're we're A's fans. You know, as mentioned, like, the rare thing you can do in the Bay, which is, you know, you can have your a AL team be the be the A's and then have your NL team be the Giants. And certainly, that's true for for for Brian.
Bryan Carmel:You know, so we like, you know, like both teams. We're we're desperate you know, big ace fans, you know, we our friendship was actually formed, being being ace fans and memories like you and Adam were sharing, just how great it is, and how much of a bonding experience, you know, kind of baseball can be.
Paul Freedman:You can't understand. Were always Which is true. I had I had a Maguire Canseco poster in, in the late eighties, and I also had a Will Power, a Will to Thrill. You guys been to Will Clark before. I would I I I yeah.
Paul Freedman:Both ways. All straight a's.
Steve Tuck:Yeah. I mean, I had the the ace pennant up. I had the Raleigh Fingers autographed ball, like, at a bunch of Oakland stuff.
Bryan Cantrill:You never told me this.
Steve Tuck:I know. I know. Well, it's coming out now.
Bryan Cantrill:Alright. It's coming out. Yeah. Sorry, Paul.
Bryan Carmel:Yeah. So so my but my background is definitely not, you know, baseball. My career ended when they took the ball off the tee, But my career has been startups mostly, you know, edtech startups specifically. But when, the when the whole ace drama was happening, I was, you know, desperately concerned about what that would mean for Oakland, and what that would mean for our community. And, you know, there's just a role that baseball plays, I think, in in a lot of cities, but but particularly in Oakland, where, you know, a baseball is this thing that brings us together.
Bryan Carmel:Right? Like, the city colors are green and gold. Like, there is something about the right field and the left field at the Colosseum that is uniquely unifying, and there's something that sports does, which is bring, you know, people together and and specifically baseball because there's so much time and space and ability to talk and ability to nerd out and all the things you're talking about. And while that was happening, I was like, you know, I don't know how to, I don't know anything really about baseball, but I know how to start companies that solve problems, and this feels like a problem and maybe a company we're solving. So then I called my close friend, Brian, and Brian and I have been friends since high school, you know, bonded in part by baseball experiences.
Bryan Carmel:And over the last few years, we've been looking for something to do together. Brian's career and I'll let him talk at some point if his microphone's working. But Brian Brian's, you know, career has been spent in in in in media and and, movies and sort of very different worlds. But but, you know, sort of, like, I called them and said, hey. I think there's, you know, business opportunity here.
Bryan Carmel:The A's are leaving one of the most entrenched, you know, fan bases. There's 58 years of baseball history. There's multiple organizations where identities are set around baseball. Like, if we can do it the right way, you know, we can build something, you know, interesting. And he's and Brian said, you know, I don't know as much as much about base as business as you do, but I know about stories, and this is really interesting story.
Bryan Carmel:And so that was, you know, late June, and we launched, you know, the Oakland Bees, the Ballers, and it's very much,
Paul Freedman:you know,
Bryan Carmel:up up you know, very much a business and and and very much a story as all good businesses are.
Bryan Cantrill:Yeah. Okay. So I was gonna ask you what the what the time frame was. So the original announcement was in April, very gutting. By the time we get through to June, it's kinda pretty clear like, alright, you know, screw these guys, they're leaving.
Bryan Cantrill:So and everyone was kinda kicking rocks, honestly. I felt like in, and I just think it's a remarkable, Paul, that you kinda had that. Brian, what was it like to kinda receive that call and be like, wait a minute, could we can we actually do this? Can we start a baseball team? I mean, it seems crazy.
Paul Freedman:Yeah. I mean, it was well timed, first of all. Like Paul said, we we've been looking for something to do together. I'm also, you know, I'm in the WGA. It was, like, May, June.
Paul Freedman:I went on strike, so my industry shut down, And, and, you know, so I'm sitting there look looking at the rest of my life and watching Hollywood crumble, and also, you know, chomping at the bit to do something, different, and that that uses everything that I love to do with telling stories. But is there a new outlet for it? And we were just devastated. Like, Paul said, you know, we were just crushed not just by the fact that the a's were leaving, but the narrative around it because
Steve Tuck:Oh my god. He turned
Paul Freedman:on that. Right? Like, sports radio, and so all, like, you know, all all media. Like, you turn on the news, and it's like, Oakland is falling apart. This is a city in decay.
Paul Freedman:They've lost the Raiders. They lost the you know, twice. They lost the Warriors, and now the A's. This is not a pro sports city, and that just did not sit right for us because that is not our experience with Oakland. Oakland's a beautiful city.
Paul Freedman:Oakland is a city with a really bright future, and it just didn't sit right what was being said. So when Paul called and was like, do you think we could start a baseball team? I was like, well, I mean, we don't know anything about that, but we're, like, kind of smart and good at doing things, and it's definitely a good story. And I think there's definitely an opening, and we were watching this amazing fan activation around the reverse boycott
Steve Tuck:in June.
Paul Freedman:And, you know, you've got a fan base that people are talking shit about saying they just can't support the team, but we were seeing something that was incredibly contrary to that. We were seeing incredible activation and activism around, let's show this ownership group what we're really all about. And so we're like, you know, if if we if we can do it right, and if we can present something that really feels like it's with the community and for the community, you know, maybe people will, maybe it'll work.
Bryan Cantrill:That's amazing. Okay. So I was gonna ask that if the reverse boycott played any role in terms like, wow, there's a lot. Can you describe the reverse boycott a little bit, Brian? Because that I mean, it is one of the most extraordinary experiences of my life, honestly.
Bryan Cantrill:I was there with my whole family and, it was I except my 19 year old who lived out of state was very jealous that he could that he couldn't be there for it, was there in spirit, but it was such an extraordinary experience for us. So could you describe a little bit the reverse, what the reverse boycott was?
Paul Freedman:Yeah. I mean, Paul, you I I devastatingly wasn't there. So, Paul, you describe it.
Bryan Carmel:Yeah. Yeah. So so so just as context, you know, there is this narrative around, you know, the A's leaving, which is that, you know, Oakland's not a baseball fan. There are no fans here. And Oakland has, you know, been at the bottom of the league for the last 3 years in attendance.
Bryan Carmel:And so there but, you know, AceVans will tell you that's because there's been no investment on the product in the field. And if you're not gonna invest in the product, you know, you're not gonna get customers. That's pretty much true in any business. But, you know, kinda to prove the this notion that there's no fans here wrong, the fans themselves organized the concept of a reverse boycott. So they picked a random Tuesday, deliberately chosen for being particularly random, deliberately chosen for being a Tuesday cause that's the lowest attendance, days.
Bryan Carmel:And,
Bryan Cantrill:not a Red Sox game, importantly. Right? A Rays game. Game.
Paul Freedman:Not not a place that
Bryan Carmel:anybody would care enough that you're gonna have to take your hat off before you go in inside the the the house. Right? Like, this is, you know, a game of a game of a game of very little interest, and the the idea was, like, look. If we can have people show up, all come and show up on this particular day, you know, it shows that the fans are here. It's not the problem.
Bryan Carmel:The problem is not with the fans. And they did. It was, you know, I think that they it was announced, you know, 27,000 people. I think they're now More than that. Now know there was more than that and they, you know, kind of, decreased the announcement.
Bryan Carmel:Everybody showed up. The energy was like a playoff game or a or a world series game was incredible energy. And then, you know, most magically, you know, in the 5th inning, they did a moment of silence, for 55 seconds because the a's had been in in in Oakland for 50 5 seconds. And after that, it should be said that it should be said that
Bryan Cantrill:at that moment of silence, the only thing that we knew we were gonna do is be silent. There was no other, like, further instructions. There was no, like, what happens after the silence? Like, I don't know. We're just gonna be silent 55 seconds.
Bryan Cantrill:I remember really being
Bryan Carmel:like, okay.
Bryan Cantrill:We're gonna be silent.
Bryan Carmel:It's amazing. And the whole stadium is silent. You know, 30,000 people silent. And then after that, everybody starts, you know, channeling channeling, sell the team, sell the team so loud that the announcers on television, you know, couldn't couldn't ignore it, that, you know, what was happening. And the activism of that, the energy of that, the coordination of that was incredibly, incredibly impressive, incredibly impressive.
Bryan Carmel:So, yeah, that was a like, there's something here. There's some energy to to help, galvanize or some energy to to to to to use. And, also, you know, on the flip side, like, hey. What's that energy gonna do if it doesn't have a channel? Right?
Bryan Carmel:And so, yeah, very much, like, our idea was, like, inspired or made believable or whatever you wanna say by the reverse boycott.
Bryan Cantrill:That's amazing to hear. Because the they also the energy that game was so positive, which it was it was such a great experience, and it reminded me, god, I miss this so much. I was there in right field with with my wife and daughter. My 16 year old was there with all his 16 year old buddies. They were they all got seats they wanted to be in on the 1st base lines.
Bryan Cantrill:They were on the other side, and they you know, it it was just so great to be among among my among ace fans that were all, like, you know, were across all of these different strata and, you know, people from very different walks of life all coming together for kind of this moment and it didn't, you know, it it it did it wasn't didn't feel angry or resentful. It felt uplifting and joyous And it it so it was and and you come out of that being like, is this it for for baseball? And if Paul, it's so funny if you come out of that being like, this can't be it. Like, we gotta go we can go do something with this. Can't be
Bryan Carmel:it. Exactly. That was the feel like it could this kid sort of this can't be it, and we gotta do something about it. And, yeah, the positivity was incredible. Like, people were saying this is gonna be riots or there there need to be a police presence.
Bryan Carmel:There is none of that. There is absolutely none of that. This was a, you know, a remarkable peaceful protest and a demonstration of what, you know, Oakland and the Oakland fan base is all about.
Paul Freedman:And it did feel
Bryan Cantrill:I mean, it's it it certainly it felt like you're part of not you're not at a sports event. You're part of a social movement of, like, this is a city saying like that we exist, you know, we're here. And don't count us out, and I'd again, it was incredibly uplifting. And then, of course, bittersweet as we're took tons of selfies as we're leaving the Colosseum because I'm like, I this could be the last time I'm here. This this place that has meant so much for my kids.
Bryan Cantrill:My kids grew up here. I I you know, we were season ticket holders until they doubled the prices and out of the team. So the alright. So into that, so you call Brian. You're like, we gotta go start a baseball team, which is just nuts to me, and I'm so grateful for your insanity in this regard.
Bryan Cantrill:And, like, what's next? I mean, I I I got I mean, as as entrepreneurs ourselves and, you know, Adam, you've done this as well. I mean, the the kind of the first question is, like, alright. We gotta go, like, raise money. We gotta figure out I mean, what was next?
Bryan Cantrill:What what was the kind of the the the next step once you decided, like, alright. We're in. We don't know anything about this, but we're in.
Bryan Carmel:Well, first thing is you do it. You have you have to you have to join a league. And and and Brian, maybe you can you can talk about the you know, you can't just play baseball against yourself. So unlike other businesses, you know, you got you got to join a league.
Paul Freedman:Yeah. So we had to join a league and, you know, you there's affiliate baseball and there's independent baseball, and and there's also collegiate baseball. Right? So those those are the those are sort of the levels. Affiliate baseball is tricky.
Paul Freedman:Like, I don't think Oakland wants to be, you know, the Devil Rays or or or Houston's, like, affiliate. Like, Oakland doesn't that's just not gonna work for Oakland. So that was not that was not in the cards, and that's also a much that's like a nefarious, complicated, we gotta deal with MLB type of thing. And then Yep. And then there's so there's collegiate ball and there's independent baseball.
Paul Freedman:There's essentially 4, you know, legit indie baseball leagues in America. The Atlantic League, the Frontier League, the Pioneer League, and the American Association. So we, you know, figured out how to get an agent. Paul Paul had a connection. Paul had been doing a little bit of investing in some, in some international, sports organizations, and so had an agent.
Paul Freedman:And so we he Paul Paul sets up a meeting for us with this agent who connects, you know, people that wanna wanna invest in sports franchises with opportunities and leagues. And he's like, Paul just or Paul said, Brian, 2 2 minutes before the call, just, like, pretend like you're the big money guy. I was like, okay. What does that mean? But You're from
Bryan Cantrill:Dubai now. You're from Dubai. So just Yeah. You're from Dubai.
Paul Freedman:There there was a little bit of, like, fake it till you make it. We get we, you know, we talked to this agent. We subsequently talked to a couple of these independent leagues, and they're, like, taking us seriously, and we would get off the phone or get off the Zooms, and we would be, like, giggling that, like, oh my gosh. They they think that, like, we're they're talking to us about, you know, starting an expansion, starting an expansion team. But they were, like, considering what we were saying about bringing a team to Oakland, and they were Interesting.
Bryan Cantrill:You know? Yeah.
Paul Freedman:Yeah. And so, so So
Bryan Cantrill:it was really they they had seen the same things that you had seen. And because you're kinda coming in I mean, the the great thing about that reverse boycott is it really did change the media narrative. People are realizing, like, oh my god. There are fans there. And I feel like the number one question you always have with any investors is, like, tell me about the market.
Bryan Cantrill:And I feel like you can say, like, yeah. Let me tell you about the market because this is a market that exists and it's being abandoned. I mean, it feels like you was that helping at all? The fact that this wasn't Oakland, the fact that the Rurks boycott had happened.
Bryan Carmel:They they they knew about the market. Yeah. We didn't have to sell them on the on the market. Like, people were excited about the market, in, in in the in the concept. You know, we had to eventually sell them on our credibility and capability of actually, like, pulling this off.
Bryan Carmel:And then we had to solve a lot of, like, logistical hurdles. Like, how do you play in a league, from a as California teams when the rest of the teams are in Montana, Colorado, and Utah, and, where do you play? Yeah. Face where do you play baseball in Oakland?
Bryan Cantrill:Yeah.
Bryan Carmel:But but but, you know, the that was a big one. But but but but pretty quickly, like, multiple leagues were interested in having us. And so then we had the opportunity to decide which one to to participate in.
Bryan Cantrill:Oh, great. Oh, yeah. Wow. Okay.
Paul Freedman:And so we had
Adam Leventhal:And was it because of that media narrative that they that they were jumping at it?
Bryan Carmel:Because of the the media the I think because of the media narrative, I think be they I think folks were interested in Brian and Mai's background. It's very different than the people who own minor league teams. They like the idea of having, you know, somebody with start up experience, somebody with kinda media experience, like it was we we presented a, you know, different as as much as we were, like, faking it to make it, the reality was they actually liked us, and liked the combination of what what we could probably, probably accomplish. So so we ended up with multiple offers, to join leagues. We ultimately decided on the Pioneer League because we really liked its positioning as a league.
Bryan Carmel:It's sort of become like the innovation league for baseball.
Bryan Cantrill:Interesting.
Paul Freedman:So
Bryan Carmel:yeah. So it's it it it has a relationship with MLB, but it's not the teams are not affiliated. So, but it's does rules innovation. It it tests new rules and new opportunities for and then MLB uses the data to make a determination of what rules they wanna end up doing in the in the in the future, and that allows some opportunity to make the game a little bit more fun as well. So, like, as a as a prime example, instead of extra innings in regular season games, it has a home run derby or a knock it calls a knockout round, but it's like a home run derby that decides ties.
Adam Leventhal:That's pretty great.
Steve Tuck:Like that. Isn't that that? I know. It's
Bryan Carmel:pretty cool. It's pretty cool. You know, 4 minutes, you know, 4 minutes, it's it's done. It require it it it it really fan friendly. It also makes the business model easier because you know when things are gonna stop.
Bryan Cantrill:Oh, actually, you know, I never thought about the business model implications of extra innings. There is but there is obviously. Yeah. Right. Oh, yeah.
Bryan Cantrill:When you're in the 18th.
Bryan Carmel:You don't know know when you need
Paul Freedman:your shuttles to go away.
Bryan Carmel:Like, it's actually having You
Paul Freedman:already stopped selling beer in 7th, and then you can't be like, never mind. I know it's the 11th. We're gonna start selling beer again.
Bryan Cantrill:Okay. I just like to get I would like to get my extra innings mixed feelings out there. It also takes away Jerry Blevins hit in the 18th inning. I have a 22 inning game against the angels at, like, midnight. That is one of my best memories as a nays fan.
Bryan Cantrill:And then, Adam, it also takes away PA socks and there are 33 inning games that
Adam Leventhal:the 33. That's right.
Bryan Cantrill:I assume you, I I can rely on Connecticut to represent the PA socks. Right? I mean, is that is that fair? Absolutely. I mean, well,
Adam Leventhal:spent a lot of time in Rhode Island too. So, and went to a lot of Paw Sox games.
Bryan Cantrill:And in fact, you went to a Paw Sox game together.
Adam Leventhal:That's right. That's right. Right before my wedding with your kids in mind And, and have a lot of cups that that celebrate the 33 innings. And I don't know if you know I gotta get this in. My neighbor in Rhode Island was the scorekeeper for that game.
Bryan Cantrill:Do I
Paul Freedman:know this? You this
Bryan Cantrill:is how you introduce this person. I took a photo with my kids with this guy being like, this guy is really famous. And it was only after the fact they're like, wait a minute. What was he? I'm like, he was the scorekeeper for the longest baseball game.
Bryan Cantrill:And, actually, we did go to the hall of fame, and that scorecard is in the hall of fame. So this is pretty But okay. So we we have said our piece for extra innings. We have now everything we've got everything positive we have to say about extra innings. From a business perspective, I can see why a home run derby and deal on merchandising.
Bryan Carmel:Things that ever happen in the next innings and you just name
Bryan Cantrill:them in the history
Bryan Carmel:of next innings. You've you've named both of them. Yeah. They also, for example, next year we're gonna test a challenge rule for challenging, balls and strikes. So so it's anyway, like, we like that.
Bryan Carmel:We, you know, we we we kinda like that positioning and think that there's an opportunity. We think baseball could be a little bit more fun. We think the game could be a little bit more engaging. We think it could be a little bit more exciting. And we thought that that fit really well with the product that we were trying to build, and so we ended up choosing, you know, this this this Pioneer League.
Bryan Cantrill:So I gotta tell you, I love also so the Pioneer League, as you mentioned, it's in Idaho, it's in Montana, it's in Utah, it's in Colorado. I I kinda love where it is. I mean, I grew up in the American West. Obviously, I grew up in Denver. And my my 16 year, 16 year old and I are gonna take a road trip this summer to visit colleges, and we're gonna we're stopping at some Pioneer League games along the way.
Bryan Cantrill:So I'm excited to take it to to watch, I think, the Boise Raptors. I can rename the Boise team or to watch the Boise team. But, so the now at what point so you go to the Pioneer you're you're excited about the Pioneer League. They're an innovative league. They also have got caps about how long you can have played in.
Bryan Cantrill:Like, I think you, are you allowed any players that have played in Major League Baseball? This is not like a a place where players go to retire. This is a Right. A a usage for young players.
Paul Freedman:So there's, like, a marketing exception. Like, if we wanted, like, you know, Dennis Eckersley to come and and and, get some saves for us, We could we could do that. There's I think you have one marketing exception a month. But, yes, by and large, it is, you have to have 3 years or fewer of professional, baseball experience. And, you know, at first, we were like, what are you talking about?
Paul Freedman:We wanna you're like, we wanna get those old, like, retired players when they're coming back. No.
Bryan Cantrill:No. No.
Paul Freedman:Yeah. But No. It but we've really come around after talking to a lot of the other, you know, folks who run the other teams in the league and the, you know, and the front office, the league office because it what it does is it really keeps the caliber of players incredibly high. Like, these are you know, MLB had 60 rounds of draft until recently, and they constrict they constricted it now to 20 rounds, And that means that there is a lot of really, really high caliber talent that isn't getting drafted to an affiliate team. And this is a league that, like, you know you know, Pedro Martinez came through this league and, you know, Cody Bellinger and, the guy who I hate on the Dodgers.
Paul Freedman:What's his name? Clayton Kershaw.
Bryan Cantrill:Like, you're gonna have to be a lot more oh, you're gonna have
Adam Leventhal:a lot more Dodgers. Exactly.
Paul Freedman:Like, Clayton Kershaw and then, like, you know you know, Cal Ripken, George Brett, people like that. So it's a legit league. Incredible talent comes through there, and, and I think that keeping it to these players in their first three years of pro experience helps it stay at that high level.
Bryan Cantrill:So I have to say I love this. I I I love this aspect of it. You know, my my oldest plays college ball. So, you know, you see those guys who are all, like, working so hard, and it's such a it's an infectious energy, and it everyone is is you know, they're all pursuing their dream. Like, they've all got their own story of the dream that they are pursuing, and they haven't made it.
Bryan Cantrill:And I think it's it's so much fun to watch. I think it gives a set of positive energy, and and I think it also just because they're they are, they are kinda on the upswing. You get some of these I think the best memories. I mean, I I Brian, I don't know that, you know, during that kind of 2012, 13, 14 run for the a's, I remember going to watch a bunch of Stockton ports games and realizing, like, man, there are some good guys in the system. This whole, like, this Matt Chapman guy and Matt Olsen guy, these guys rake.
Bryan Cantrill:And watching those guys hit at, and, of course, like, the full you know, they were at the ports. It was great to watch them at the Stockton ports. They played at the a's. I love them at the a's and then, of course, they got, you know, traded away for absolutely nothing, and are now gonna match up now with the giants and and Matt Olsen with the braves. But the, I love that aspect of it.
Bryan Cantrill:And I when the River Cats were the a's minor league affiliate, I went to go watch was watching River Cats games with my kids and because they just couldn't get enough of it. It was great. And we saw this guy at the RiverCats, and I love learning his story. And this guy had been up to the show briefly, had never gotten a hit, was back down to the River Cats, and the guy is just raking. He's a catcher, and that we had 3 catchers up at the a's.
Bryan Cantrill:I'm like, I'm never gonna see this guy play at the a's, but I love him. I love watching him play. And, it's just kind of a shame because, like, there's never gonna be room for him. And as turns out, a couple injuries later, there was room for him. That was Steven Vogt, and, you know, we were there when he got his we got his first hit as a he he hadn't gotten a hit at all as a race player, and it's like, oh my god.
Bryan Cantrill:That story watching that guy get his first hit, and it just felt like, you know, my son got his autograph. It's so, like, that that stuff is so meaningful to watch these guys who haven't made it yet on the upswing is just really exciting. I think the stories are great. So I I I love the fact.
Bryan Carmel:I mean, that's a you know, it's a good it's for it tells everything. It's you know, first of all, the the the talent at this level is really strong, and the difference between people who make it or not are knife's edge. So, you know Yes. Could be injuries in front of you whether you make it or not. You know, talent is really strong.
Bryan Carmel:And the accessibility of baseball players at this level is, like, much different than than at an MLB game. I mean, these are players who are excited about giving autographs for the first time. They're excited about playing in front of fans, you know, big big groups of fans for the first time. It's just a much more accessible experience, and there's just a lot of energy. So, yeah, as Brian said, like, we initially were concerned about that, are now really excited about, you know, the the the where this sits and the fact that it's a developmental league.
Bryan Cantrill:Totally. Alright. So now at what point so you're excited about about being in in the in the Pioneer League. And then was it contingent upon you entering, or at what point is it revealed to you that, hey, by the way, we can't just add one team
Bryan Carmel:to the league. Was did
Bryan Cantrill:you kinda know that going in?
Bryan Carmel:No. We didn't. And, you know, it's just so dumb. It's just so dumb because, you know, it's how hard it is to start anything. You know, And it's like you want to start 2 of the things at the same time.
Bryan Carmel:It's like 18 times harder. I don't know how that math works out, but that's exactly the ratio. So we we were looking for other options. We only wanted to do one team, but you need even number of teams in leagues for scheduling sake. Right?
Bryan Carmel:And so, there were some options of other owners who were thinking about joining the the the Pioneer League, and the the, commissioner, and president were looking to see if we they can push them to join a little earlier than they were expecting. And 1 by 1, they just it they didn't work out. And so it was getting, you know, sort of late in the cycle, and it was like, we we either have to wait, until 2025, or we have to launch 2 teams. And we just didn't feel like we could wait. You know, we just didn't know how bizarre or or, like, toxic or just, you know, bad that this year was gonna be in Oakland without there being, you know, something that was guiding hope, something that was saying that baseball was gonna stay.
Bryan Carmel:We We just didn't wanna do that. And so we kinda bit the bullet and said, let's launch 2 teams. And so then that became the the Yolo High Wheelers, which is the other California team launched in the pioneer league in 2024.
Bryan Cantrill:And and, Steve, Adam, I'm sure if you know this, that they started the Yolo High Wheelers as well, that they started the Yolo County team. No. I knew they were playing the Yolo Hut. Yeah. No.
Bryan Cantrill:They started
Steve Tuck:the team.
Bryan Cantrill:They started the Yolo High.
Paul Freedman:That's our team too.
Bryan Cantrill:Yeah. That's the they they they're like, alright. I guess we have to, like, okay. Like like so this VC needs to start a second company. I guess, we'll start a second company as well.
Adam Leventhal:Let me compete literally competing in the same space.
Paul Freedman:Yeah. Start yeah.
Bryan Carmel:Start a competing problem.
Adam Leventhal:Start your competitor.
Paul Freedman:Well, then
Bryan Cantrill:they also I have to say the thing I also loved is they also like, alright, well, screw it. We're also gonna start a rivalry. So they've started, like, a Giants Dodgers rivalry between the ballers and the yellow high wheels. I I'm a little worried that, like, you know, the 80 years from now, kids are gonna be like, yeah, there's a dividing line in this home between the Yolo. You can come in with the Yolo High Wheels hat, but you have to take it off before you enter this home.
Bryan Cantrill:This is an Oakland Powers home. You'd be like, you know, actually the owner that originally does for the start up, that those are the same Yeah.
Paul Freedman:Same This is on Michigan, Ohio State starting too.
Bryan Cantrill:Is that right? Yeah. That's great. But I think it was I also I mean, that is just this is where the story to me just gets, like, fractal in terms of the challenge. Like, you got so much challenge to get a place to play and everything else, and you're like, okay.
Bryan Cantrill:I need to do this in parallel. In an organization. In an organization.
Steve Tuck:People that you need to run it. I mean, it incredible that you had to go to 2 of these. And how, like, how close to waiting to 2025 were you? Or was that never
Bryan Carmel:a consideration?
Paul Freedman:We didn't feel like it was. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, Paul.
Bryan Carmel:Yeah. Yeah. It it just wasn't it it wasn't a consideration. It just didn't work for the problem we were gonna solve. It would like, it was almost like if we it was like don't do this at all or to take us.
Bryan Cantrill:I mean, it was
Bryan Carmel:it was closer to that consideration rather than thinking that we could wait until 2025. It was, you know, the the the need to kind of say there's gonna be a next chapter in in baseball in baseball in Oakland. The need to have some sort of, like, thing that to say yes to as opposed to say no to. I mean, we were very worried that the well, the positivity, the reverse boycott was gonna hit the the reality of, no, the a's are are definitely going and that that was gonna break apart this, like, energy in this community, and we just didn't want it to let it happen. So, no, I mean, it was we we we might have said that this we can't do this.
Bryan Carmel:But but if we had to do it, you know, we were gonna accept the additional, complexity of the you've got that you've all gone. Complexity.
Bryan Cantrill:You've analyzed everything. Well and it's amazing. And, I mean, I personally, like, can't wait to go I mean so you picked a part of that is also deprived of baseball, Yolo County. So this is in Davis, California, just outside of Sacramento. And here Very familiar with it, because
Steve Tuck:I was stuck on the YOLO Causeway for
Bryan Cantrill:Right.
Steve Tuck:About 2 hours back from Tahoe.
Bryan Cantrill:And so this is another I mean, you've picked another good spot. I love can you describe the High Wheelers as a name? Because I think they're really like, wait, what's the High Wheelers about? About? I love what you've done with the branding there.
Bryan Cantrill:Can you describe that a little bit?
Paul Freedman:Sure. High wheeler is a historic type of bay, of of bicycle with a very large wheel in the front and a very small wheel in the back. You know, like those old timey bicycles. And, they're very hard to ride. We the the the man the the bicycle hall of fame is actually in Davis.
Paul Freedman:Davis is like one of the greatest biking. If you guys have spent if anybody has spent time there, it's one of the greatest biking communities, you know, in the country. Incredibly bike friendly, incredibly proud of their bike culture. Not a lot of people riding these old timey high wheelers, but it is the town, like, it's the town logo. Like, if you go to the city of Davis, they'd get a high wheel bike, and we were like, that's cool.
Paul Freedman:But the the people you know, let's do that. And, that's how it happened. We of course, we do, like, a big brand expiration and had, you know, you know, invest spent a month investigating other names and then went back to the first thing that we thought of.
Bryan Cantrill:The right is it didn't always works that way. It's like, alright. Let's do the in-depth research. Actually, as it turns out, the thing that we had with our gut, and that was actually the right thing all along. Exactly.
Bryan Cantrill:I I love that. I also so this begins to attack into a couple of other things that I think you guys just nailed. And and this certainly, we've tried to do the same at Oxide. Very different problems starting a computer company, but it was similar in that. We we knew that people would want this.
Bryan Cantrill:We'd have the kind of the the wind at the back and the kind of the reference for history is something that's been really important for us and I love your reference for all history, baseball history and otherwise, and you get it in I mean, it feels like that's a very deliberate way to to kind of to to engage these communities and to lift them up. I mean, is that a is that a fair read?
Bryan Carmel:A a 100%. You know, our, you know, whole concept is that, like, baseball existed in, Oakland before the a's. Baseball is gonna exist in Oakland after the a's. And part of being we wanna be part of that next chapter. We've said that, you know, from the launch.
Bryan Carmel:That's our that's our goal is to to, like, continue this, you know, wonderful culture, that exists around around baseball. But if you wanna be part of the future, you have to recognize and acknowledge and appreciate the past. And there's such amazing past in in Oakland, and we've done a series of of limited edition hats where we are kind of 1 by 1 acknowledging, teams like the Oakland Oaks, the Oakland Larks, and and recognizing, you know, them and honoring their colors. And, you know, we're gonna do a lot more of that when it comes to game time, you know, programming. What the place that we end up playing we're gonna end up playing baseball, Rimande Park, was, Oakland Tribune once said more MLB players got their start from this municipal park than any other park, in the country.
Bryan Carmel:And we wanted to play at Ramondi because of that history, because that's where Kurt Flood played. That's where Frank Robinson played. That's where, you know, it's it's it's like we are very much wanting to acknowledge, lift up, embrace the history of of of Oakland Baseball, and we should we have to do that if we wanna be part of the future.
Bryan Cantrill:It's Steve. I gotta ask you. You grew up in grew up in the East Bay. You that your your your parents have a business in West Oakland. You've been in West Oakland.
Bryan Cantrill:You worked at West Oakland as a kid. Yeah. Did you know all this job? About all this incredible history about Raymond Park?
Steve Tuck:I I didn't at all. And I started I asked my dad about it. So the the Atlas Heating Heating and Air Conditioning Company on 32nd and Peralta, just, you know, handful of blocks north of Money Field, was asking about that. And it turned out he actually had done some work with city organizers trying to get that field back to doing something. And this is obviously like, you know, 15, 20 years ago.
Steve Tuck:But he had worked with Ellen Wyrick Parkinson, who was a longtime activist and had had tried to to make something in the field, and, they just could never get anything off the ground. Ecstatic to see Oakland Ballers show up. And anytime you're getting new economic development investment in West Oakland, It's a pretty tight knit community. And I was gonna ask you guys just what that response and kind of has been from the broader community is as you were thinking about sites and eventually choosing this site?
Bryan Carmel:Yeah. I mean, the the the the the response from the community, in Prescott, which is the neighborhood that Ramadi is in in in West Oakland has been incredibly positive. And we've done a lot of work to engage the community. I literally went with the local council member door by door, like, canvassing to see whether this was something that the neighborhood wanted. Right?
Steve Tuck:That's awesome.
Paul Freedman:We've had
Bryan Carmel:we've had community meetings, you know, almost every 2 weeks, you know, since we announced our intention to play there, to to listen to what the community was excited about, to address the concerns of the community. Like, it's very important to us that what we build in Remonde is built with the community, not on the community. And too often kinda development in general, specifically, specifically, stadiums are built on top of of communities without sort of engaging the community stakeholders. And we actually wanna build a a stadium the way you build a startup, like, from the ground up, piecemeal over time, you know, in in partnership with your, you know, with your community. And so far, you know, the the neighborhood has been tremendously excited about it.
Bryan Cantrill:I You're also just feeling
Steve Tuck:like there's so much potential.
Bryan Cantrill:So much potential. Oh my god. You've got,
Steve Tuck:you no multi generational families that have been there. You've got just such amazing pockets in West Oakland that with the right kind of localized business are gonna flourish. I mean, you can definitely look at it and see, you know, a couple of years from now, as being just a key piece of that neighborhood and that kind of broader area coming back to life. And it's exciting.
Bryan Cantrill:It's really exciting. And we for those folks who are outside of the Bay Area, you should know that Oxide is very, very close to Remundi Park. We are, so we we're stoked to be within walking distance to Remundi, And we are very close to where where the Oaks used to play though, that that's now a Pixar campus. So we're just kind of across the street from Pixar here. But I I I it was so great when you guys announced that location and explained the history of it, which I definitely didn't know.
Bryan Cantrill:And it's like, wow. There's all this I knew the history of the Oaks, but but none of the larks, for example. I thought that was great too. And so you you kinda mentioned the merch in passing. I'd like the record reflect that I am wearing You're wearing
Steve Tuck:some good merch right now.
Paul Freedman:What am
Bryan Cantrill:I wearing right now, Steve?
Steve Tuck:You're wearing a baller's hat. I The green and white. I, right now, am on the merch site looking at the new black and gold.
Bryan Carmel:Which is You you better you gotta go quickly because there's only 2
Paul Freedman:I know. I know. I'm trying to check out
Steve Tuck:while we're on here.
Bryan Cantrill:So this hat, by the way, that and I was listening to, to a podcast, with another the, with your the baller's GM explaining that, like, I got players whose families want a hat, and I'm like, yeah. I can't get it any like, we are backlogged on all merch. We sold out. Apparently, how fat how fast did this hat sell out? I mean, it sold out very quickly.
Bryan Cantrill:Right?
Bryan Carmel:Yeah. I mean, all so all of the drops have have have sold sold out incredibly quickly and sort of exceeded our expectation. The first we were told by our friends at Oaklandish. Oaklandish for those outside the Bay Area is a is a, you know, Oakland based lifestyle brand, very strong, very rep you know, represents Oakland, you know, works with all of the big, you know, brands. We were told that our first hat hat drop was the most successful hat drop they had had with the exception of a limited edition of Warriors drop.
Bryan Carmel:But it was a second in their in their top history, and it far exceeded your expectations. Then we restocked that. This is just our our our forest in green and ran out of the restock right before Christmas. And then, you know, we were doing these new era limited edition hats, and we had no idea what to expect. I mean, they're new era hats.
Bryan Carmel:They're not they're they're, like, they're, you know, newer hats aren't aren't cheap. We're doing them in colors that aren't our own colors. We're a brand new team. And, you know, so far, every drop that we've done is sold out within 5 days of of and, you know, this one, the the the Oaks, the Larks one that we we dropped last week will almost certainly, you know, sell out today, if not tomorrow. And, you know, the response has been incredibly overwhelming.
Bryan Carmel:It's also really you know, one of the things that we intend to do around this is, like, normally, you as a new company, you would say, hey, just keep your brand consistent. Don't mess with new colors. But it's gonna be so Oakland at our home games that everybody has the same hat, but everybody is gonna be having the same hat in slightly different colors.
Bryan Cantrill:And
Bryan Carmel:but they're you know, we're all there together. We're all repping the same team.
Bryan Cantrill:I I love it. And I guess, I mean, they look great too is the other thing. I mean, it's like, you know, my 16 year old is I you know, when he when he saw that, he's like, dad, have you seen the devaricide? I'm like, I've seen the devaricide. It is a straight fire.
Bryan Cantrill:And they the the, you know, the 16 year olds love it. And I think you've, they've the 16 year old as a group, I think, actually, a pretty good taste in this kind of stuff. I wouldn't I wouldn't trust them for much, but, I mean, the the I don't know. Are you partnering with Oakland just to design the hats? I mean, what's the who do you engaging with in terms of of the actual, like, the creative side of that?
Bryan Cantrill:Because it it is they're good looking.
Paul Freedman:So our our designers, Dustin Canelan, he is amazing. He, you know, he designed the town, like, the iconic Warriors Town Jersey. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.
Paul Freedman:So a buddy of mine connected us to Dustin, like, early on, in, I think, early July, well before we were established when a lot of people were still kind of like, what are you guys doing? What? Really? That's like your gonna be your job now? And Dustin, you know, grew up in Alameda, lives in New York now, but, like, loves the Bay Area.
Paul Freedman:He has his own line with Oakland ish and has been close with them for a long time. And he, you know, he I we just think he hit the branding out of the park. So he he he did our entire visual identity and helped us helped us, you know, for you know, further further fortify our relationship with, with Oak Landish, who are now, you know, are essentially our apparel partners.
Bryan Cantrill:So Yeah. I I love it, and I love how I mean, because it feels so it feels fresh, but also, obviously, reverential and referential, and it just it's it is really, really terrific. It's been and it also must be it must be exciting for you all to see that just that quick uptake and to see how excited people are. I mean, I gotta tell you, like, you know, I gave my daughter a ballers shirt for Christmas, and, I mean, she it was her favorite present. She was just delighted, because I think she is so excited about it.
Bryan Cantrill:And I just think it's, like, man, that is it is so great, you know. I mean, to be able to deliver that kind of joy. I mean, this is the power that that you've got, and to be able to do that with new company formation is just unbelievably terrific. Yeah.
Paul Freedman:I mean, it's fun when you're rock it's fun when you see somebody rocking a baller's hat on Bart. That for me, that's like that it's like because I you know, you see your friends wearing them and the people that have been bugging you to get hats for the last couple of months, and that's one thing. That's not that fun. But when you see, like, a stranger on BART wearing a hat for a team that we thought of 6 months ago. And we're like, is this gonna work?
Paul Freedman:And now people are wearing literally new era fitted hats on BART. That that's that I do appreciate. That makes it kinda awesome.
Bryan Cantrill:Alright. So you see you mentioned Bart. You also have got Bart as a as a sponsor. Right? You got Bart on the jersey, which I think is terrific.
Bryan Carmel:Yeah.
Paul Freedman:Yeah. Yeah. We go to Bart and triple a.
Bryan Carmel:Yeah. And and which which, you know, both of those sponsors, Bart and triple a are, you know, marquee sponsors, not normally the sponsors that that a pioneer league, team would would would get. And, you know, the our when we did the sponsorship, we were invited to the number one morning show on on the Bay Area to announce this the the sponsorship. And then, you know, that led our kind of we ran through our stock of pre drop jerseys. Well, you know, sort of immediately like that.
Bryan Carmel:The initial returns the initial evidence of excitement is really there. And it's it's humbling and it's, you know, it's it's really great. I mean, as anybody who's built an organization knows, there's like a lot of tough days, right? Like, and it's still a startup. It's actually 2 startups.
Bryan Carmel:And if you can imagine how much like, you know,
Paul Freedman:grind
Bryan Carmel:and complexity and talent is, it's, you know, it is like, it's you get that's all the city you're operating in. But it is nice to see the excitement. It's very different than any other startup I've done before. Like, multiple people have thanked me on the street for starting this team, like, thanking me for, you know, telling me stories about how important baseball was to them, how devastated they were thinking about the a's and and how the one bright spot was, you know, the the Oakland ballers. And, you know, that makes it, makes the grind feel a lot better.
Bryan Carmel:It makes the grind feel a lot better.
Paul Freedman:Well, I
Bryan Cantrill:was just gonna ask because there have been so many days like that for us, Steve, and I'd be where it'd been really tough days and where, you know, things are not going and you're like, what are we doing? Literally, what and it is and it's the fact that we, you know, we have had so many out there cheering for us. And, I mean, obviously, a very different dynamic, but the, you know Then you'll you'll see the oxide shirt on the street. Right. Yeah.
Bryan Cantrill:The well, I mean Metaphorically. Well, I and, like, I've been stopped, you know, wearing oxide gear. I get stopped by people who talk about how it's like, oh, I'm never gonna be a customer, but I love what you're doing. It's like, well, you say never gonna be a customer. Like,
Steve Tuck:hold on. They said this is
Bryan Cantrill:the nice thing. You know, Paul and Brian, you could be like, hey. You know, our our our tickets started, like, $25. Like, you can be a everyone could be a customer, whereas, like, you know, ours, our machine started a little more little more than $200. But it's like, I I just, like, know exactly what you mean because those days feel like, oh, man.
Bryan Cantrill:This is, like, this is meaningful, and it's important to me, and it's important to other people. And it's like when you hit those headwinds, that must just it I I mean, it's just easy to remind yourself about how important this is. And in your case, like, important at like such a deep resonance.
Steve Tuck:I mean, unity level, a family level. Totally. Right? Yeah. I mean, I I was I was telling Brian before this, I was sending an email out to our OBA Pinto team families about-
Bryan Cantrill:So, Rinda Baseball League.
Steve Tuck:Yeah. Sorry, Rinda Baseball. And these are, you know, 6, 7 year old kids. And it it is in some ways kind of the best age. As it's I mean, it is such a fun age to see kids starting to, like, fall in love with baseball and enjoy the game and starting to understand the rules and, like, the intricacies of baseball.
Steve Tuck:And and also, like, playing with dirt and throwing in each other's eyes. You know, it's it's it's so great to have a good vector to try and get, like, this team out for kind of a postseason event. And, and the the ballers are just such a good vector for that. And you do and you could just see that kind of flourishing across all of Oakland, and it's gonna be fun. And what what What's the what's the capacity?
Bryan Carmel:5000. Right? It it it's it's it's 4 it's 4 it's just around 4,000, actually. We went through, you know, various ups and downs as we were laying out what the ballpark can hold. But if so the 1st year is gonna be around 4,000, capacity, and we hope that, there's a lot of games where that's, you know, that's full, because 4,000, passionate Oakland fans, you know, rooting for a team that's winning
Steve Tuck:is live. It's gonna be loud.
Bryan Cantrill:Gonna be deafening. It's gonna be it is gonna be great. Well, so, I mean, yeah, and Steve, a couple of other so on that, you say the 7, 8 year olds. And, you know, in this whole saga, there have been some journalists that have been covering it very closely, and, Brody Brazil and Casey Pratt, and a poem. And, Brian, I'm sure you remember Brody Brazil broke down on air.
Bryan Cantrill:And when he broke down, it was when and it's you know, I tears come to my eyes just thinking about it. But when he described that 7 to 8 year old kid, you know, in Danville or in East Bay and, you know, not able to wear an Oakland A's hat. You know, we just saw it. He's on Oakland A's hat on a 7 year old in the and he's thought himself, there's not there's not gonna be anything that replaces that. And I think that, like, to have something that replaces that for that kid for those kids that are like, and like even better like by the way my hat got signed by all the players because they're all super stoked to have someone, which actually kinda leads to my next question.
Bryan Cantrill:Paul Bright. What do the players think? Are they what what are the I I mean, they must also be excited to be involved in this.
Paul Freedman:Yeah. They're really excited. And, you know, we've we've we've started to get to know them a little bit, but I think that's really spring training starts next month, and that's when we'll do. I you know, I've gotten to to know about 3 or 4 players so far pretty well, but the rest, not so much. Just a couple emails back and forth.
Paul Freedman:But I think they're all, from what we've what we've seen so far, incredibly humbled by they I think they feel like they're a part of something bigger than themselves, and it's not just like your random, you know, minor league baseball team that they're joining, but that there's that there's something kind of historical happening that feels special. And so that's that's cool. Like, we we love that. Like, people are excited to come and be a part of this thing. And that's the players that's also just it's across the board, honestly.
Paul Freedman:Like, it's elected officials in in Oakland. It's community members in Prescott, like Paul was getting at. So we've never like, we don't know what this is gonna feel like once it starts, once the season starts, but so far it has been, overwhelmingly positive. And I think there's just a lot of energy around, you know, proving this narrative that Oakland can't come together and get something done, proving that wrong.
Bryan Cantrill:Totally. What I also loved that, you know, you you because you and we found the same thing at Oxide. You know, kind of you become this magnet for people that want to see that same difference in the world. And one of the folks that you attracted was JT Snow as a 1st base coach. And and and I know and Steve, I remember I
Steve Tuck:told you about this. You're like, you're
Bryan Cantrill:you're thinking of a different JT Snow. I'm like, no,
Adam Leventhal:no, no.
Bryan Cantrill:I'm not. No. I'm like, no. Like, no. Same JT Snow.
Bryan Cantrill:It's like, I don't think you got I don't think that that's right. I'm like, alright. You're like, oh my god.
Paul Freedman:Got the email, and we were like, who's pretending to be JT Snow and emailing us?
Steve Tuck:I could have the same reaction.
Paul Freedman:He literally it was Christmas, and he and we get an email to whatever, like info at Oakland ballers.com. Hi. This is JT Snow. I used to play, you know, for the Angels and, like, you may know where it might be opportunities, and we were like, come on. And then, you know, there's always these jump balls with who's gonna call the person.
Paul Freedman:And, Paul Paul I was like, I'll do this one, Paul. I got this one. Before Paul could even, like, raise his hand and then start and then FaceTime with JT Snow who's like, I've been watching what you guys are doing. I've been seeing it on the news, and I'm just really inspired by what by this thing that you're creating, and it was honestly, it was like The Twilight Zone because it's like but you're you're JT Snow. You saved Dusty Baker's kid.
Steve Tuck:Baker's kid. Yeah.
Bryan Cantrill:Yeah. Right. Right.
Paul Freedman:In the world's terror.
Steve Tuck:And also just like one of the most humble baseball players, a terrific storyteller.
Bryan Carmel:Incredibly humble. Incredibly humble guy. The the only thing that's a little humble braggy about him, is that he does have his 6 gold gloves in his, like, background on his Zoom screen.
Bryan Cantrill:I noticed that too.
Paul Freedman:I actually know you not.
Bryan Cantrill:No. No.
Paul Freedman:No. No. No. He has 6 straight high gloves. I'd carry them around on the on the ground.
Paul Freedman:Of my zoom screen. I would make it
Bryan Carmel:you know, I would talk about it constantly. I'm just saying, like, that's that's how humble
Bryan Cantrill:Oh, I I I'm sorry. Let me move these gold gloves so I can make room for the oh, sorry. The gold gloves in your way? Let me sorry. Let me just move that out of the way there.
Bryan Cantrill:Exactly.
Paul Freedman:I like it. It's a little intimidating. Don Wakamatsu who runs baseball for us, he also, like, whenever Paul and I see him in person, he's he's rocking his world series ring, and he'll, like, twist it around. If we he'll he'll twist it around his finger, which is a, like, a humble reminder to Paul and I that, like, we're not the people that, actually know about the baseball things. That would be Don.
Bryan Cantrill:That must be amazing to be able to attract these folks who are, like, okay. These folks, like, you know, Don Juan Tomatsu and and JT Snopes, like, these are I did, you know, we're having to, like, move over world series rings and Golden Gloves. Like, these are people who really know baseball well, and their enthusiasm must also be really infectious.
Bryan Carmel:It it makes it yeah. Early on when Walk, you know, Walk, 35 year, you know, career in baseball, 17 as a player, 18 as a coach, 1st Asian American manager in the history of MLB, like, 2 World Series rings in 2 different organizations. Totally legit, respectable, he he guy. When he agreed to to work for us, it was one of those moments. And, you know, you have them in startups where you're like, oh, we we've just hired somebody who's way better than us.
Bryan Carmel:Yeah. Those ones are
Bryan Cantrill:the best. Oh my god. Those ones are
Bryan Carmel:so great. They're the best. And then and then, of course, what happens is that, you know, creates a flywheel. And then we get Michael Franklin, who's, like, the world's best hitting coach. And Aaron Miles and JT Snow, you know, calls us.
Bryan Carmel:And, like, now we have, you know, what some journalists have said is, like, a MLB quality coaching staff for a Pioneer League team. And that helps you get better players because these developers Exactly.
Bryan Cantrill:Yeah. Yeah. Because
Bryan Carmel:Yeah. Yeah. They can choose where they go. And so they they're choosing to go to here because they know that they're gonna get way better development than anywhere else, and then that allows us to put a better product in the field.
Bryan Cantrill:Well, in in this flywheel effect is so important in a startup especially because it is this is how you begin to gain momentum is because you would you attract these extraordinary people, but then it it attract extraordinary people. And you just have to I I mean, if Do
Steve Tuck:you remember when Adam joined?
Bryan Cantrill:I do remember god. I remember when Adam joined. We we we guy actually got this guy.
Steve Tuck:Like who is this who is this impersonator who who's claiming to be Adam Leventhal
Bryan Cantrill:who is this terrible man that wanted the red sox to break up Sean the Nye is no hitter
Steve Tuck:who should make the call
Bryan Cantrill:but no. It it it it is exhilarating, and it it mean that was that's extraordinary. Again, for the players okay. So then the other thing I I definitely wanna ask you about I think I absolutely love me. You guys do so many things that are so clever and engaging and opening.
Bryan Cantrill:I love this open tryout that you did. Could you describe that a little bit? Because I thought that was terrific.
Bryan Carmel:Yeah. So we really wanted to get more, players from Oakland, and, wanted to get as many local players as as possible. And so we have the idea that, you know, there's a lot of great talent out here or MLB has cut its draft significantly. There's a number of players who just haven't, you know, been on the radar, missed out on the opportunity. Let's invite them to come to, a tryout and see if we can find, you know, anybody who can can make the team.
Bryan Carmel:We we had filled the majority of our roster, but we left a few slots for for players to be able to to make it. And so then we invited everybody to come out to Laney College about, you know, 10 days ago, and and about 92 people came, and we, you know, we ended up making 3
Bryan Cantrill:offers. Well, and I love the fact that you had you you had it was an open tryout. So you had, you know, people that, you know, you had Casey Pratt trying out. You know, you had, and the the kind of back and forth online was very funny about that, but it was great that you just to get people engaged. And then, of course, like, you got some you got some really interesting folks out of that.
Bryan Cantrill:And, do you want to describe who you got out of that? Because, we're gonna be, the the there's some terrific folks.
Paul Freedman:Sure. I mean, well, you know, the one that's kind of been been making waves is, is Kelsey Whitmore, who we hire who who who we brought in to pitch for us. Kelsey is a woman, and she, is gonna be be on the open ballers this year. She's she played, pro ball for the Staten Island fairy hawks in, last year in the Atlantic league, and, she's she's got a middle reliever. Actually, I think for the last 2 years.
Paul Freedman:And, you know, we had we had met with her. We were kinda interested in her. Wach Wach was looking at her, but we decided we weren't ready to make an offer for her, but we did invite her to come to our open tryout, you know, where our coaching staff will be, and let's see what she's got. And she just, like, brought it. She it was it was incredible.
Paul Freedman:I mean, she doesn't she doesn't overpower hitters, but her command of the strike zone, she can just sort of place it wherever she wants, and the coaching staff just all looked at each other. And by the way, Paul and I don't make baseball decisions. We leave that to the people that know how to make baseball decisions, but they all, you know, they just said said yes. Let let's do this. And, so really excited to have her on the team.
Paul Freedman:Also, like, my, you know, my 10 year old daughter and her 10 year old friend were at the tryout, and they were like, they couldn't believe it. It was they were so excited to watch Kelsey. So from I I do think that, like, while we weren't going to we while we weren't going to sign her because she is a woman, the fact that we signed her based on her ability, I think that there is, like, there is an opportunity to bring in other other people, my daughter notwithstanding, who otherwise might be like this game, whatever. But, you know, they were literally like you you could see this light and glow in my daughter's eyes because she was so excited that to to watch this woman pitch. So really excited about her, Paul.
Paul Freedman:And then signed 2 other players that I that I'm less familiar with, to be honest.
Steve Tuck:One
Bryan Cantrill:of them throws 95. So you've got some folks that throw gas. The at the yeah. They got picked up another picture, and then I think a shortstop as well. Right?
Bryan Cantrill:I mean, they've got, maybe It's up
Bryan Carmel:from San Francisco from from San Francisco who is one of the best Little Leaguers, Little League All Star in San Francisco and and was high I was was was very highly regarded, initially in in in the draft and and think that, you know, still has a great career in front of him.
Bryan Cantrill:That is awesome. Well, I mean, I personally love just like I mean, I'm really excited to see Kelsey Whitmore pitch because I love I just we're looking at the footage and, you know, hearing about the what the coaches were saying about about command and placement and and the I mean, I personally think that we have over enshrined philosophy just to not to not to go too much down the baseball rat hole, but, velocity is important. It also enters a lot of pitchers. And, I, you know, I personally think of Greg Maddux would do pretty well in MLB today and, a real craftsperson who who knows pitch location and everything else. So I'm I'm excited for this
Bryan Carmel:or I couldn't agree more on that front and not to get nerded out on on baseball specifically, but I think that's right. And then in an era where everybody's you know, what what is translatable from baseball to other fields is when everybody's going in one direction, there's sometimes a really strong opportunity to go in the exact opposite direction. And and and everybody's going for just power. And so it's a very different look now for somebody who's not powerful, but it's just hitting every single corner with every single pitch. It's a big change in in look.
Bryan Carmel:And so, you know, that's part of the logic, you know, for for Kelsey and I were and I think actually part of the logic for a whole bunch of opportunities for different styles of of pitchers is, like, everybody's been in baseball sort of chasing the same thing, which is, let's just try to throw a 100. And then when everybody tries to chase the same thing, if you do it differently, you really have a you're you're you have you have a differentiation. You have another you have an opportunity.
Adam Leventhal:I sound like Oakland Baseball.
Bryan Cantrill:Yeah. And who and the right
Paul Freedman:same time, all the other teams in the Pioneer League, they all play at altitude. Right? Because they're all, you know, Idaho, Colorado, Utah, Montana. So I think the fact that we're gonna be the only teams that play at sea level is good. It's just a different thing.
Paul Freedman:And, you know, these games in the Pioneer League because the ball travels, it's like the Rockies. Right? They're often, like, 14 to 18, but it's gonna be different when you come to the Bay. And so I think that that that could potentially benefit somebody with with, you know, precision pitching around the strength zone like Kelsey tremendously.
Bryan Cantrill:Well yeah. And so in particular, so to to give people a little bit of color on this. So, in baseball, the altitude really makes a difference, and the ball will go a lot further at altitude. As a result, people, it is harder for the part of the reason that with the Rockies have never really broken out. Pitchers do not wanna go pitch at altitude.
Bryan Cantrill:And so I think that you've got a real differentiator in terms of being able to get pitchers that are like, yeah, I I thank you thank you. No. I don't feel I need to get lit up at, it's in in, you know, Utah or whatever. So that's gonna be a really interesting dynamic. And, Adam, I love what you said about terms of, like, it sounds like Oakland baseball.
Bryan Cantrill:I mean, this is what Oakland has done, and and I I think that this is the the the the terrific tradition that you are carrying on of, like, being creative. And I gotta say, this is where you get, like this feels this is so Bay Area to me. And one things I loved about going to a's fan at the a's games is it it was a I'm like, this is the to me, such a true Bay Area experience where people are so creative and brainy and energetic. And to me, what you all have done, this is like, this is a Bay Area solution to this problem, of just being innovative and being bold and willing to do something that other people just thought was impossible, and but to do it with the community at your back, and I'm excited. I gotta tell you.
Bryan Cantrill:I am super excited. I know that I'm sure like, so and just to be clear so folks understand, like, Remundi Park is being built basically right now. I mean, the park exists, obviously, historic park, but you all are doing a lot of improvements, like, say, building seats right now. Right?
Paul Freedman:We we
Bryan Carmel:we are. Yeah. Yeah. So so it's it's a park. It's been around for, you know, for for decades.
Bryan Carmel:We talked about, about its its history, But we had to do a lot of work just to get the baseball field up to pro standards because it hadn't been used for 5 years and the irrigation system wasn't working and the grass was overgrown. And then, we are building it's temporary. It's not, you know, it's but we are building, you know, 4,000 plus, you know, temporary, grandstands. So the vibe is gonna be, like, 48 block parties around a baseball field. And, you know, a lot of work is being done.
Bryan Carmel:Know, right now, most of that work is in the ground. You know, I think Saad is coming next week, but it's been really great. And we haven't even done this, but the neighbors have been, like, you know, taking videos and putting on on Instagram and putting, you know, putting it on, you know, other places and just excited reporting the progress. You know, just wait until May when the structures start coming up. Like, it's gonna be we're gonna see a ballpark being built in in in Oakland, you know, in a in a in a month, really.
Bryan Cantrill:And, you know, you kinda made made references earlier, but I just because there is this narrative out there. It's like, oh, the city doesn't want you to build everything. It seems like the city has been really excited to help you get this thing built.
Paul Freedman:Beyond. Yeah. They've been I mean, they've been our partners. They're literally clearing the way for us. So it's it's it's the opposite of what, you know, what has been said about this.
Paul Freedman:Our experience has been the opposite of what was said about working with the city of Oakland by the team that's leaving. I'll just leave it at that.
Bryan Cantrill:That is awesome. And I think that that that the team that's leaving, the team that that shall remain unmentioned. Voldemort. Yeah. Exactly.
Bryan Cantrill:Exactly. That and just I think it everybody wants to prove the world wrong, the city included. Right? I think the city is like, no. We wanna show that you can build here.
Bryan Cantrill:We wanna show that fans wanna show, like, we we can support this. West Oakland and Prescott wants to show that, like, no. You can build stuff here. We're excited for it. And, that is so I so you described your schedule.
Bryan Cantrill:When does that kinda kick off here? Because that's the other thing, you know, in a startup, you have you know, you often are trying to do things as quickly as possible, but your schedule is rarely dictated externally the way yours has been. Like, you have a very fixed schedule that you're up against.
Bryan Carmel:Yeah. Yeah. So our first home game, you know, may game start in May, you know, in in May, but we start on the road for the 1st couple weeks. The big date, the one that's like, you know, on our that will live in infamy on our calendar, because it is unmovable in ways that product releases and other things, you know, tend not not to be, is June 4th. And so it is a, you know, all hands on deck, you know, constant daily effort to make sure that all of things that need to happen in order to, you know, build a a ballpark, you know, in by by June 4th, it is is is done.
Bryan Carmel:And that's the first home day. You know, we're we're hoping, and expecting that it's gonna be, you know, a tremendous event and a tremendous, like, a celebratory event for the city of Oakland, proving what Oakland had accomplished, in that period of time, and then proving what we've been saying from the beginning that baseball is not going anywhere, no matter what, the other team, as Brian describes it, might wanna do.
Bryan Cantrill:That is awesome. So
Paul Freedman:Yeah. And Yeah. And and what follows is essentially 48 home games in June, July, and August. And, you know, and and it's it's 6 games a week. We play every day, but Monday, we're on the road half the time, and our you know, when we're at home, like Paul said, it's gonna be like 48, you know, block parties around a baseball game, and kind of thematically or programmatically the way we're looking at it is like, the first season is kind of a love letter to Oakland.
Paul Freedman:So, we will be releasing a, like, a programming calendar shortly so you can get a taste of what some of the what some of the theme nights are. But it really indexes heavily on community engagement and partnerships with various community groups showcasing what Oakland's all about.
Bryan Cantrill:That is awesome. So, I mean, I would say to those of you who are in the Bay Area or if you've got travel that's gonna bring you through the Bay Area this summer, this is something to go check out. This is something to just, I think, see and, I mean, if you've never I think there's something glorious with just watching baseball at this level is exciting. You're gonna have people who are really, pouring their hearts out on the field. I think I'm looking forward to a fan environment that I think is gonna be extraordinary.
Bryan Cantrill:I think it's got actually, I love the fact that it's unaffiliated because I think that you don't have to worry about a player, like, really popping off and then then getting called up to to the, although, actually, the Oko days send people down when they pop off. So, you know, the the and, sorry. I I gotta stop mentioning the other team. But the, you know, you the fact that we're gonna be able to follow these players all the way through the season and that the, you know, kids are gonna be able to learn their stories and, you know, what their journey was, and I I just think it's gonna be so energizing. And I I can tell you, I got my I got my, opening night tickets.
Bryan Cantrill:Very stoked.
Steve Tuck:I did the same a couple hours ago. Actually, are there still tickets left? Because I bet those are just about full.
Bryan Carmel:There there are. There are still still still, tickets left. So if folks, wanna go, get tickets for opening day, you can through our website at oaklandballers, dot com. You know, we do expect that that opening day will be a sellout, but it's not yet. So there's, you know, time for people to do that.
Bryan Cantrill:Don't delay. Yeah. Because that they really just went on sale very recently, and and they almost certainly will sell out. And, Adam, I'm looking really looking forward to to taking in a ball game there with the Oh, yeah. Word.
Bryan Cantrill:It's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. And, Paul and Brian, I I cannot thank you enough. I mean, I think that, you know, I can't thank you enough for what you're doing for for the community, for for baseball. I think you're giving everyone something to be excited about and look forward to.
Bryan Cantrill:And then the fact that you're doing it in this just, I I mean, just absolutely impossible situation of having to start not just 1 team, but 2. And, I mean, having to do it with against such incredible time bounds. I mean, this is, as a, you know, kind of user fellow entrepreneurs, like, it's it's an incredibly inspiring story. And Yellow. It is.
Bryan Cantrill:It really is. And then thank you also for for agreeing to be on our
Bryan Carmel:our crazy podcast.
Bryan Cantrill:You although, actually, if you start a Bower's podcast, I'm gonna be an avid listener to that thing, man. I I like you gotta get, like, an inside Bower's podcast.
Paul Freedman:Hey. You gotta start a Bower's podcast.
Bryan Cantrill:Oh, god. Yeah. You definitely should. I think that so here here's okay. As long as we're offering free advice, I would I think a Bowers podcast is in particular, there's so much that happens inside of baseball that people don't see and appreciate that the players and the manager staff and so on know.
Bryan Cantrill:And I think that there are so many that that in the MLB system, I think that players are so discouraged from from saying anything and any and, like, anyone, everyone lives in fear. They live in fear of being sent down. They live in fear of, of pissing people off. And, you know, you've got a culture that is really uplifting, and I'm I'm I would love to have you capture some of that. I would love to get these stories of some of these players, and I I mean, I'm gonna be a if and when you start a podcast, I'm gonna be an avid.
Steve Tuck:In the meantime, let's get to How I Built This.
Bryan Cantrill:Oh, How I Built This with the open ballers. Be great. Huge.
Steve Tuck:Alright, Guy Raz, if you're listening.
Bryan Cantrill:Guy Raz. Yeah. We're we're not you, Kevin Roos. You keep walking. Paul and Brian, thank you so much for joining us.
Bryan Cantrill:We really appreciate it. You're gonna have, you know, when Steve and I started oxide, we, I had this kind of crazy idea that we would have, like, an oxide ox at the Colosseum, and I was surprised at how much the loss of that future that doesn't exist yet. So we haven't, you know, we're not there yet as a company by a long shot. But when they announced they were leaving, I realized that I was like mourning for this future that I, that I wasn't gonna have. And it was really, you know, upsetting, and it was just in so many different dimensions.
Bryan Cantrill:Right? And now I'm like, no. No. We are gonna have it's gonna be we're gonna have the Baller's box. Baller's box.
Bryan Cantrill:We're gonna have we're gonna take if you, like, if you buy an oxide rack, we're gonna take you to a Baller's game. You're coming to a Baller's game on the house. We're gonna have a, this is we're excited to to head over there to remind a historic park, historic Rumba Park and take in the block party and watch some great baseball with what's gonna be incredible energy.
Bryan Carmel:We don't have boxes. We're not that kind of team, but we do we can do experiential things per group. So if you wanna bring
Paul Freedman:it down
Bryan Cantrill:Don't worry. We're not we're actually We're not. We're not when we said boxes, we read that metaphor after boxes.
Bryan Carmel:We're not fancy like that. But but we love to have VA games, and we what we trade we trade in fanciness. We can, exchange for accessibility and and being able to touch and feel the product. And we're excited we're excited to have you, and thank you for having us on the podcast. This has been fantastic.
Bryan Cantrill:You bet. Alright. Awesome. Alright. Let's go ballers.
Bryan Cantrill:Can't wait.
Paul Freedman:Uh-huh. Thanks so much, guys. See you at the park.