041 | Bringing Gin to Brazil: how to start a brand starting from a specific need | with Arturo Isola, Co-Founder of Amazzoni Gin (Sao Paulo, Brazil)

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

In episode 041, I had the pleasure of chatting with Arturo Isola, Co-Founder of Amazzoni Gin. An architect and designer by training, he entered the Drinks Industry co-creating the first Brazilian Gin on his journey to craft the perfect Negroni. I hope you will enjoy this inspiring Founder’s story.

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction

2:16 The First Brazilian Gin

8:48 Brand or Liquid Led Business?

13:14 Conceiving The Business Idea

20:06 Breaking into the On-Trade

23:02 Starting Without Investors

27:45 Entrepreneurs and Consistency

32:21 Should You Adapt to the Market?

37:00 Committing to The Dream

41:34 Contact Info & Ending

About the Host: Chris Maffeo

About the Guest: Arturo Isola

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Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

Guest

Arturo Isola

Founder | Amazzoni Gin

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Welcome to the Maffeo drinks.
Podcast, I'm your.

Host Chris Maffeo In episode 41,
I had the pleasure of chatting

with Arturo Isola, Co founder of
A Matsoni gene.

An architect and designer by
training.

He entered the Drinks Industry
Co, creating the first Brazilian

gene on his journey to craft the
perfect Negroni.

I hope you will enjoy this
inspiring founder story.

Hi.
Arturo, how you doing?

Hi Chris, I'm fine and you.
Good, good, good.

So I I was just thinking that
probably this is the recording

of an episode with the biggest
temperature difference, because

here in Prague it's -3° and tell
us where you are and how warm it

is and may just.
Jealous.

I'm Sao Paulo and today, now
must be 30 fives around.

Yeah, On the verge of
summertime.

So it's in the two two weeks,
two or two weeks will be full

summer.
So we are we are warming up.

Literally.
So let's start lasso it.

It's a great pleasure to have
you here for Seoul and it was

great.
We bumped into each other in

Berlin and then we we just
started chatting and we finally

managed to spend some time
together and got to know each

other.
And then we said like why don't

we do an episode together and
and here we are.

So I'm very happy to host you on
the on the podcast.

No, I'm very happy.
Thank you for for having me,

Thank you for giving me this
audience.

But I think it's important to
say yes, we bump into each other

and this is important because
the stars knows everything.

So it was not a coincidence even
if we didn't know.

But for sure the the Italian
common roots work out a lot on

on having this follow up.
At the end of the day, we should

introduce ourselves as Italians.
Absolutely, absolutely.

The Italian connection is always
working with all the especially

with people living abroad.
I would say it we always have

this kind of like click, instant
click that unites us.

So to say.
Let's start with some questions.

I know you are not from the
industry originally.

You entered the the industry as
an outsider, not as many

founders are.
So how did you find for yourself

in navigating this complex
ecosystem of the drinks

industry?
I'm proud to be outside.

This is an important driver of
whatever history we're going to

debate today.
I literally fell into this

industry by accident out of
personal necessity since 2017,

since the launch of the brand.
We are gin producer, spirit

producer, We are distillery
owner because there were no

genes in Brazil.
There were no gene distillers in

Brazil.
And as any good Italian, we love

a good Negroni.
And that's it.

You can laugh, you can laugh,
but is this the real story?

Actually, it's all about
Negroni.

A good one.
That's that's how it all

started.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Personal necessity.
And remember this main

assumption of this whole
conversation because it will be

recurrent on our conversation.
Personal necessity.

Outsider Italian architect moved
to Brazil in 2008 and starting

to feel the lack of the good
gene for a good Negroni in 2015.

What I've been doing in this
seven years I try to to fit into

the Brazilians habits when it
comes to drinks, when it comes

to spirits that strangely but
lucky for what happened

afterwards, were exclusively
around Casasa and Cape Purina.

Your podcast, I'm sure that all
your audience knows very well

about Pachasa and Que Purina.
Not to everyone know what's what

this is, but I mean Cashassa is
is a sugar cane, liquor is is

the cousin of rum by the way,
it's the same thing of rum.

So in Brazil it's called
Cashassa and outside Brazil it's

called Rumagrico and it's widely
available In Brazil it's proud

of of of Brazilians when it
comes to spirit.

And Capurinas, the only drinks
they manage somehow to to invent

around this, this, this spirit,
sugar, lime and cachaca topped

with with a lot of ice, so
basically a meal in terms of

sugar and calories.
So I was acting as a Brazilian,

as any immigrant managed to do
when when started to be part of

a new environment.
You act like them.

You you exchange your habits,
but you have the tendency to try

to disguise yourself into a
local, to be cool, to be part of

the system and but I mean sit
upon you, get bored.

It's one drink, one spirit.
As Italian and as spirits and

cocktail lovers, that was not
enough.

And so I start looking out for
for gin.

There were no jeans.
There were none Agroni.

There were no gin tonics.
There were anything.

And so eventually I decided that
I had to to make mine to make

myself the gin.
This is a real, real story.

Wow, this is incredible because
it's and it's very interesting

for me because as an Asian, as
you say I am an agronic fan like

and I discovered, I must say
that I I I wouldn't say that I

discovered because I knew it,
but it wasn't my thing until I

moved to Sweden and my friend
Salvatore, another fellow

Italian, introduced me to it.
But back then in Sweden it was

very expensive because you pay
every single spirit by the unit.

So when we didn't have enough
money we would drink Americano

because we would save on the on
the gin stole that in it and it

was a bit cheaper than a
Negroni.

And I remember at that time even
in in Stockholm that is a very I

mean it's one of the best cities
for for cocktails.

But I was struggling because
people when I when I order an

Americano, like they would make
me an Americano coffee.

So.
I think that everybody today

talks about Negroni.
Everybody play who like if they

knew Negroni since ever, but
actually it's a very recent

global phenomenon like it was.
It has been kept quite niche and

built very well by Campari by
the.

Way, yeah, but not for Italians
international.

Yes, yes.
But when it comes to Italy, I I

remember and and probably this
fact was the driver of what

happened afterwards.
Recently I can clearly remember

myself on the lap of my father
and at four years old and

licking his finger wet Negroni.
I mean after works he used to

come back home and before dinner
he had religiously ritual around

the Negroni.
And I clearly remember having

introduced today.
Probably this will be classified

as a crime because my age, but I
mean so I remember that.

I mean it's part of our cultural
heritage since since many years

and and I'm sure that my memory
is somehow managed to rescue

back this facts from my
childhood and was really

important at the moment to take
on this enterprise to to buy my

steel on Internet.
I remember 5 liters steel,

electrical glass $105.00.
I can't remember the bill.

And then this was already with
my other Co founder, a great

friend and Brazilian musician,
artist and musician, a very

eclectic guy.
Ali Shandy, a very close friend

of mine with whom I used to have
this Saturday afternoon

pretending that Brazil was a
cocktail country.

But in fact we were my house or
in his house with the right

tools, with the right spirits
that we smuggled into the

country in our luggages.
Because they were not.

We deemed that everything
started because we constantly

kept provocating one to each
other.

What's in it?
If you're traveling, please take

some bottles back to Brazil.
If you're traveling, make the

same decision.
We were putting money and and to

whoever was traveling and making
the the purchase list.

I like this, Vermont.
I would like this beat that.

I would like this Gene, I would
like this whiskey because Brazil

has never been into cock.
It's it's a very curious fact.

But there was there was an
opportunity there clearly.

Wow.
Wow.

That's a very that's a very
interesting story.

So I would say, I mean like I'm
I'm usually asking this

question.
I I always ask does it start

from the brand or from the
liquid?

So I'm I'm assuming that it
started from the liquid, but

tell me if I'm right.
Yeah.

First of all, let me apologize
with your audience, which it's

probably used to assert a script
of your of your podcast.

Probably today we're going to
rewrite the script because I

mean, I'm not an industry guy.
I pumped into this industry by

accident.
As I said, till today I managed

to manage the business in a
different way.

Getting back to your question
was not about the liquid was,

not about the brand.
Literally, this was not meant to

be a business.
We generally start to do this

liquid because what's not even
supposed to be a brand was the

liquid for us.
Was the liquid for our friends,

for our Saturday and and Sunday
afternoon spent at home

drinking, well, pretending that
we were bartenders, the right

bar spoon, the right gigger, the
the copper shaker.

We really sense this stuff and
we had no place to go.

And so this project turned into
business after two years and we

spent this two years and we
didn't know that this would have

turned into business.
And these two years we, we just

played around making the perfect
dream for us.

Looking backwards, Chris, I
think that one of the learnings

that they had from this journey
and I generally believe that was

one of the key points for the
success of this project that we

didn't start the business,
didn't start with the investors,

we didn't start with the
business plan.

We've never had the business
plan.

We just were funding the
project.

The project, I mean we bought
steel 405 dollars was affordable

for our savings, some botanicals
at the market.

I mean it was was an hobby, a
real hobby as people spend on

golf clubs or tennis rackets.
This project did start from our

pleasure to to have our own gene
and eventually afterwards our

Vermont, our own bitter to make
the perfect Brazilian rooted and

source, said Negroni.
The the hobby was around that

and we started with the G.
This is interesting because this

is what it is about.
Ultimately, I'm trying to, let's

say, systematize what actually
happens in real life.

Now, whether you are from the
industry or outside of the

industry, I want to make it
accessible to people to to

really understand how it was.
And now it is for founders to to

find something.
What I like about this is that

it I always talk about these
things like you know target

occasion or target cocktail and
it sounds that it was very much

about that.
You had a very clear plan based

on the Negroni to actually make
a Brazilian Negroni possible and

then you started with Gene and
then eventually you would have

gone to the other two items of
the of the equation.

You got the point.
The trigger was Negroni.

But then by the moment we
started playing around the

Steel, we fell in love with the
alchemy.

And the alchemy is something
that can be really sex can be

really seducing phenomenon
because you see this liquid

boiling up and then being cooled
down and turning liquid again.

And when it comes to gin, it
comes out of the steel is ready,

you can drink it.
So I mean this is the perfect

toy was this I I couldn't wait
for the weekend to arrive

because the infusion would have
been ready and we had the

possibility to mix the infusion
to the steal and to play again

And all of this surrounded by
friends because you can imagine.

I mean, it's the kind of hobby
that is very easy to have big

audience around.
What's what's, what's the

problem for today?
Come over, we're going to

distill what I thought that we
we're going to play in cards,

we're going to play in football,
we're going to watch tennis

final and Wimbledon North.
We are going to distill.

That's amazing.
That was insane.

And when did it become a
business idea?

In these two years we had a lot
of fun, but the most we

progressed and we improved in
the technique.

We really got into that to see.
OK so the distillation is is

understood.
Now let's manage to make the

perfect recipe.
And so along these two years we

had a lot of breakthrough lot of
people spontaneous advisor

friends, friends of friends of
friends, of friends of friends

of friends.
We're ready to improved enough

but it was a lot around
distilling speed distilling,

speed distilling because you can
understand we we were an Italian

architect, the Brazilian
musician.

I mean it seems the joke alien
architect, the Brazilian

musicians walk into the
distillery and you and you

expect that something dramatic
is going to happen and and we

somehow managed to change the
outcome of this story at a

certain point we came across a
brilliant guy.

It's a very charismatic guy from
the industry called tattoo

Giovannoni, a guru, a mentor,
lovely guys, inspiring guys.

And by coincidence he had just
moved to Rio on Buenos Aires

because he just got married with
a Brazilian girl and he wanted

his kids to grow up close to the
to the seas.

I mean it's a typical tattoo
decision since inspired by the

universe and we bumped into his
his gene basically those opposed

to his.
And I might say that the day the

Brazilians got really, really
pissed off because you know that

there's a certain fight between
between Brazilian and

Argentinian and Argentine as his
gene and Brazil is not.

They put more fuel into the
fire.

So that instead of being there
jealous or or challenging the

Argentina, I went after the
Argentine and I met t.A.T.u and

I explained him a project that
was not a business, that just

was just for us.
And they see wanted to join us

in this afternoon and he head
the first Argentinian gym and he

saw somehow him involved in the
first Brazilian gym.

So I mean he deserved this,
this, this reputation that he

has and he was really, really
important which the last, the

final touches do you know to the
recipe and he has a gift and he

had the skills to help us to, to
fine fills this recipe.

But by then we already were
traveling around Brazil seeking

new ingredients visiting
different biodiversity of Brazil

sourcing ingredients different
because we wanted the first

Brazilian engine to be really
really Brazilian sourced.

And so we get to the final
recipe and the last proof of

concept because we like we like
the Lord that to like he

approved we approved the whole
answer no spontaneous advisor

liked it was was I mean was the
recipe and I was respecting all

the main assumption that we had
to have Brazilians ingredients

that were used before
representing the different

biodiversity of Brazil.
Amazon rainforest really really

displayed and represented big
time into the recipe.

We we managed to to balance old
world a new world.

We were happy we were happy.
The last proof of concept was to

demonstrate ourselves that a
recipe in 5 liters electrical

glass steel was as good as when
distilled in a 500 professional

copper steel.
You know you're Italian, you

know if you have someone over at
home one night and you want to

make a result of the five
peoples you, you will do a great

result.
If one night you have 200 people

over and you have to cook them a
risotto, I'm not sure that

you'll get to the same
performance.

So this was my doubt.
It was again thought it was.

It was reported because he had
the connection to American

Friends project made in Brazil
for the American market.

I mean it was something like
that.

And he knew the distillery close
to Rio and we knew that there

there was a steal, just a steal.
But for us was enough just to

make a badge proof concept. 700
bottles, 1000 bottles.

That's it.
We will have bottles for family

and friends, for many parties
for many, gift for many.

And that's all I I'll be back to
my architectural architectural

Bureau election.
They will be back to this music.

And so we we drive to this place
to to two hours driving from

Rio.
An amazing place.

Colonial Farm perfectly kept 300
years old, but Palm Springs lake

water everywhere perfectly
located halfway between Rio, Sao

Paulo.
No off road access was perfect

and everything was perfect until
the point that we we met the

owner of distillery, a very nice
guy our age and we asked him

just to make batch and he
candidly replied.

Listen, I cannot distill because
I don't know what Genie is, but

if you want I have a lot of
space here Why don't you set up

your own distillery and we were
shown to this to this room that

in his mind was the place that
was perfect for our purposes.

What purposes we we hadn't
purposes of setting up a

distillery but it kind of poke
us and this place was sorry.

It's a room.
The facade was beautiful.

The six windows, big windows,
blue frame, the colonial style.

No roof.
Totally messy.

Totally shit.
But then again I mean OK, OK,

thank you very much.
This is not our purpose.

But then coming back home the
thought were we had an in unique

opportunity in in a lifetime we
can be the first to do something

in Brazil not something strange
spirit and so that was the

trigger.
Long story short we we quit our

job.
We decided that this was an

opportunity that to be taken and
and we start working around.

So that day that day this hobby
turned into a business.

We decided that we had to create
a distillery, a bottle, a label,

a brand and then eventually to
to launch the brand in Brazil.

It was the day. 1016 so.
Let's Fast forward to the moment

in which you're actually, you
know commercializing the brand.

So you have a unique opportunity
because you have a unique

selling proposition in real
terms because I mean you are the

only Brazilian gene at least
back then.

How did you start?
Like did you have pro like where

you basically source from the
friends and family and you have

how did you branch out into bars
restaurant which which CV you

approach first.
How did you think of doing the

first plan or how to move in the
first steps into the into the

trade?
As you said, we had an advantage

being the first Brazilian gym,
but in fact it was more more a

penalty because we were not just
launching a new brand, we were

launching a new category and we
realized this very, very soon

that we had to educate before
selling whatever we have to

locate the market.
And so the strategy we defined

also driven by, I remember one
day we asked that to OK, we're

going to launch the brand.
So what you you are getting from

the industry, you are on the
other side of the counter, so

you are a producer and you are a
bartender.

So what would you suggest the
strategy we should follow?

And remember here it is Answers
was really, really straight.

You have to focus on three
things, bartender, bartender,

bartender.
And so it it it showed us the

way that we had to build this
brand on trade and it was

really, really easy and made it
this perfectly match with our

vision because we we we had no
connection whatsoever.

We had no skills whatsoever in
sales management whatever we we

were outside we had to to run
this business by easting and

common sense And so we said the
strategy that was you have to be

the first in your street and
then your neighborhoods and then

in your city and then in your
country and eventually in the

world.
And we triggered we pull the

trigger of personal network
mouth to mouth that to manage to

open the first important doors
even if that to left the project

very soon we started he had to
left so we had this this

mentorship that he gave us but
practically in the execution it

wasn't there.
So we had to to learn very fast.

But when it comes to execution
from the first bottle to where

Amazon is now was totally
improvisation.

In Italiano we we had to to
improvise.

We didn't have the the the
manual to run them this way to

write down this manual every day
and the only thing that you can

do is to have not background so
people people people and and

that's it and I think that this
starting the business is not the

business was a really important
stuff still today is also to to

don't have any pollution by
previous experience to have also

not having any pressure about
investors.

There's no money there.
OK.

This was just our saving.
We had to stop several times

because we ran out of money we
had and then we eventually

restarted.
Remember that the first business

plan we we made there's a
curious fact because there's

important we were approached by
this incubator very, very

important brand incubator in the
world.

We were selected as as emergent
brand in an emergent market.

We were doing very well, but I
mean we were we had just one

year of our business and we
agreed to to have this

conversation and the first
things they wanted was a kind of

balance sheet business plan,
some due diligence, financial

due diligence.
And I remember I think I look to

for each other for oh shit we
don't have anything that they

asking for real Cowboys.
I mean it's like looking

backwards.
We've been totally totally crazy

was a spreadsheet 2 columns.
Arturo Leshande and we were we

were just writing down there was
a shared file so he could he

could fit this file and I could
fill this file by my side with

expensive so today the date they
are Leshande paid I don't know

the Juniper so with thousand and
there's it there was a bottom

line in which was the final
balance so Arturo owns X

thousand to each other or or the
other way around this is our

this is was our control and at
the at the time the business had

already got to a certain
dimension So the learning here

is no pressure no timeline no
investor to give whatever

statistician or whatever report.
So we were free to create,

create storytelling of a brand,
create the marketing of the

brand, create this narrative of
this new category working out

Brazilians around what genies we
had.

Our own distillery was really
important marketing tool to

bring people over and show them
how genies made.

I mean what's the Botanic or
what juniper is.

Juniper doesn't grow in Brazil,
so it's Italy, new new

botanicals for them and we we
were free, but on on another

hand we, we had serious problems
of control management.

So there was a wake up call that
OK, you have cool brand you are

doing, you're being disruptive
in running a brand into the

industry.
You're doing pretty good because

we were selling well even it's
in a very imitated geographical

region.
This was Rio de Janeiro, some

power at the time, but man, the
power is nothing without

control.
So I mean just slow down and put

the the financial together and
was was really well.

But this is just to bring in
story about how how this was not

a business even when already was
a business we were running the

show still is hot.
And this is really important

when you're committed with
investors, when you're committed

with deadline, when you're
committed to business plan, you

normally have to go down to some
kind of compromise.

But when when you just want to
make things because you really

believe in excellence, you
really believe in quality.

And you know that we were the
first in Brazil, but we are the

last in the world to produce
genes.

So we were not, I mean, we were
kind of disrupted in Brazil.

But the MAZ, when he was born,
since the beginning to be an

international project, was meant
since the beginning to be our

opportunity to bring the
Brazilian excellence abroad, to

raise the awareness around how
important was to preserve the

Amazon rainforest.
We had this mission.

Do you think that was crucial to
the success of the browser,

like, you know, the fact that
you didn't have any?

Absolute, absolutely.
To to the yes, yes.

Looking backwards Chris, we had
a business plan.

We would not have started the
project.

The project was not sustainable.
We were seeking the resilience

and the the the the disruption
of the probably we we we wanted

to execute and we managed to
execute would not sustainable at

the moment at that time for that
volumes.

Because that's very important.
Like to specify, because I think

a lot of, a lot of time.
What is misleading is that the

punk rock or cowboy it it needs
to be managed now somehow.

But at the same time, it's also
not to be misunderstood with

persistence and consistency and
knowing where you want to go and

go there.
You know, no matter if it takes

time because you were not in a
rush, because you didn't have a

review with the with the brand
owner, because it was.

But at the same time you were
going to bars, you were, you

know, talking to everyone.
You were like going to the

distillery every day and you
know, like you were committed

to, to drive the project.
If you want to be entrepreneur,

if you if you decide to dedicate
your time, time is the most

valuable assets we have.
We all have the same.

So the way we decide to use it,
it's totally on us.

And so when someone who has
decided that this asset they

want to invest in being an
entrepreneur so to be a doer to

do something in an ideal world.
This time should be invested to

be the one and only do you know
I mean this that's my vision to

to make something different even
more so in the ideal world.

This is the demonstration really
clear that I mean you shouldn't

look at the revenue, you
shouldn't look at the bottom

line, an ideal world the most.
You can be yourself not

contaminated, not pollute by by
external factor.

The more probability you have
that your project will be a

successful.
We are very, very very very

demanding when we are doing
stuff for ourselves.

The level of the demand is the
highest.

So you have to satisfy yourself,
and if you have external

theories, you probably you you
will decrease your level of

satisfaction about the project.
Because I have to to save some

money on this item.
I have to speed up the process

because I have a deadline.
My business plan is telling me

that I will run out of money.
I mean, I'm speaking as a

dreamer, but I think that in an
ideal world, an entrepreneur

should be a dreamer.
And to be honest like I mean it

because it sounds like a bottom
up you know build of the brand

that's a crucial thing because
the moment that you are, I'm

always saying like be careful
what you wish for not because

sometimes you know you may get
some good opportunities like

getting a listing in a
supermarket chain or getting a

listed into a big retailer or
anything like that.

And then yes, it could be a good
opportunity for growth.

But then if you haven't built
the the fundamentals, if you

don't build a building with
solid fundaments, you know then

you cannot build it very high.
It may stay up for a for a few

days, but then it start to shake
and eventually falls down.

So that that is the that is a
crucial aspect of taking the

time in building the
fundamentals, learning what

works and what doesn't work and
then go into.

The next phase of the.
Of the project.

Let's say, OK, let's try to wrap
up what I was saying in I mean

one line to put in this manual.
I would use just the word this

consistency to walk the talk.
And in the ideal world and

entrepreneur, whatever is this
field, whatever is this segment

there it is.
His mission, I generally believe

will be successful.
If he walk the talk.

If he does what he says, if a
certain point along the way he

has to change because the
compromises because whatever

external interference, this is a
problem man.

This is gonna be a problem.
The market is gonna is gonna

perceive.
I mean it's the honesty of the

project will be affected and
therefore I mean it's it's

integrity.
In ideal world you have a vision

and you decide to secure the
vision.

You, you, you couldn't.
You couldn't change along the

way.
You couldn't change anything

because something, something new
happened.

This is my visual, this my ideal
world.

We know that's not possible.
I remember we we had this

conversation in in Berlin where
we were chatting and we were

talking about changing and
adapting to the market when

needed now and then you said you
shouldn't adapt to the market.

You know you should be very
strict with what you believe in

now can you can you clarify that
thing is when you were going to

bars and selling a Brazilian
gin, I mean there was no gin

category as you said you know
like there was no gin drinks.

I mean like everything was
around you know cachasa and

cappellinia.
How did you manage to really

stick to that and and be focused
in convincing bartenders to to

eventually you know?
Yeah.

I think that this is questioning
on board on two parts.

The first part is about being
yourself and not to adapt

yourself because the market is
asking you to do.

I think that this is primary by
the moment you start to to adapt

your vision because the market
is asking you to change.

Think that you should change
your progress to decide that you

don't fit into the market, you
should change your project.

But I mean, you should change.
You should thrown away the

project you you were but before
to get to this conclusion.

There will be always a niche in
the market that wants to know a

good story and a good story is
believable.

The story is aspiring as a story
that someone that just didn't

accept that the market was
asking something and it it

changed the market.
The old story about a reform to

have a powerful Chariots with
more horses it's instead of

putting more horses invented the
car that this that's the real

story So the market was asking
for more horses and it it had a

vision of of something
mechanicals and invented the

car.
So consistency once again we are

going to consistence.
We were the first Brazilian gene

Brazilian I don't know if you if
you know and that your audience

knows but Brazilians likes a lot
important stuff because they had

an access to important stuff for
so long.

It's the last part of the last
century importation were were

were forbidden in Brazil so was
the American dream about I mean

seeing stuff by the television
but they couldn't they couldn't

head so standard gene when it
comes to our category if it's

imported the better than a super
premium gene, if it's Brazilian

this is the equation.
So once again we had to decay

the market.
We had to convince Brazilian

open that eventually we're
hoping to to accept a new

product, a new category that the
Brazilian product could be good.

And I mean it was really tough.
So people, I mean consumer by

consumer this was a really
intimate mission.

We couldn't go massively.
And so when Amazon was spread as

its base of clients, that was
not just clients.

There were, I mean, Praetorians
to the brand.

They had the time and the
patience to hear our story, to

see the random guys putting
everything at stake because they

decided that that mission had
the potential to be a disruptive

1.
And there's a lot of people out

in the market that like this
kind of story and they they want

it.
The the real luxury today,

something new.
It's not the formation that we

all had access because we use
the same platform, we use the

same channels.
The the king is the one that has

the information that the others
doesn't have.

We had to look at these people
to create that.

Of course this couldn't be far
away from here.

So was the strategy was to be to
go inside out in our inner

circle and then and then
spreading spreading out.

I would do the same if I if I
had to start another Business

Today, there's no doubt about
it.

And in this it's it's just a
parenthesis.

Digital is a is a tool that we
didn't use it.

It was really personal, and
you're younger than me, but I

mean, I belong to the 70s.
We grown up without technology,

without digital, and I still
believe that the most powerful

marketing and sales tool is the
personal experience.

What is very interesting and
it's eye opening for me is to is

that probably the fact that it
was a crazy vision what you went

for because you know you put
your job aside and you're

dedicated yourself fully on it,
which touches the heart of

people.
No, because then it's like, I

mean like this this guy is not
crazy.

I mean like it.
He must be on to something and

let me join the ride of these
people.

Let's recognize what they're
trying to do.

And I and I see it myself as as
well when I do stuff on my own.

I mean, like the podcast is an
example of this and and the

recognition that I get from
people.

It's also almost like you have a
podcast and how do you manage to

do that?
Yeah, because I do it.

You know, nowadays it's like
9:00 PM and my daughter is

asleep and I'm and I'm talking
to you from Brazil because I

commit to it.
And every week I deliver an

episode to my listeners.
You know, I don't do it as a

game.
Like, OK, it's three episodes

and then I'll do six more next
summer, you know, So I think

what what people get wrong in
this business is that they think

that they can know as a part
time.

Kind of like it's not easy.
It's going to be fun.

I'll go to the bar once and and
I'll make it up then all of a

sudden results.
You have to go early if you have

a vision, if you decide that you
want to use your most valuable

assets, to use your time to
sacrifice your time to your

family, to your, to your wife,
to your son, to your friends, to

your father, mother, father
said.

You have to use, you have to use
for a purpose.

The purpose is not part time.
Purpose is a vision.

It's a dream.
So I mean I think that we are

not heroes.
I am myself inspired every day

by many stories around the world
not necessarily in the in the

spirit industry.
I've been always looking for

worldwide new stories, new
project.

Because I mean it's I want to
know, I want to know the cool

factor to know who's taking,
who's doing something new, who's

having new vision, where is new
interpretation of something that

already existed this, this is
applyable to products, services,

experience, whatever.
So it's not just about retail

and brands, whatever can be
offered by people that decided

that want to do something
different that what's available

in the market, it's not enough,
it's old, it's not suitable

anymore.
And since you gave me this, this

opportunity and I think you also
that we are running out of time,

but I wanted to tell you a story
which is really important to

understand the imaginary
project, the whole project, and

this is an Amazonian legend.
So it's it's from the Topeka,

any cultures, the culture that
rule the life into the forest

and this legend is about Naya.
Young Indians that heard in her

village that at a certain point
had she been able to act the

moon, she would have become a
star.

So she spent all her life in
this naive dimension of trying

to act the moon until a certain
night.

On a full moon night she was
sitting on the shore of the lake

and she saw the full moon
reflected on the surface of the

water.
She decided to to dive into the

to the to the lake to finally
act the moon and not knowing how

to how to swim she drown and she
died.

Just see the moon.
The woman in in the Topeka and

the legend watching all this
scene took care from the bottom

of of the lake and made her as a
star.

The the the most brighting star
bright star that is close to the

moon nowadays.
How this story, this happy

ending story has to do with
Amazoni.

I mean it's was inspiring to us,
no matter how possible.

Crazy apparently unlikely is, is
your vision.

If you keep trying, if you if
you really want to happen

eventually you will become a
star And this is was and why

still today our labels of our
Amazoni rage there's a slogan

it's it does zag was Nasir
estrela which means from the

water studies bore.
It's all about that.

It's all about that, to take
some risks.

Wow.
That's a that's a beautiful way

to end this this episode.
And thank you so much, Arturo.

Let us know how.
How can we find you?

How can people contact you if?
They find a Matzoni gin and it's

always a Matzoni gin.
Double zed or 15 countries.

Europe, USA starting Asia now
Brazil of course and just let me

make an an an invite to you and
to your audience.

The possibility to come to
Brazil to visit the distillery

is is in the Rio de Janeiro is
is is the the most magical place

you ever seen and that it's very
very unique example of Brazil

Ness.
So the the door are wide open to

you and to your followers,
audience, friends and family.

I will be happy to to have you
guys whenever you want here.

Fantastic.
I think many, many will will

take the, the, the awkward.
Play Move out this this winter.

Miserable.
Winter.

Now I will be in Brazil.
Carnival is upcoming.

Just saying.
Yes, I am just saying.

Thank you, Chris.
Thank you.

Thanks for thanks for being
again.

Ciao, Ciao, Ciao, Grande, brach,
Ciao, Ciao.

That's all for today.
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