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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Jesse French
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man podcast. My name is Jesse French. I'm one of your co-hosts and I'm joined by my good friend, Cody Buriff, who's with me today. Cody. Hello, Glad you're here for this conversation, Mr. Cody. And today we want to explore, I would say a space that's probably pretty relevant and maybe littered with some challenges as we.
Cody Buriff
Hey, hey everybody.
or potholes.
Jesse French
Maybe, maybe that's a good way to describe it. Yeah. We want to wonder and kind of unpack a little bit of what does it look like as dads to engage our kids in the complex space of like discipline. And even just saying that like, Oh gosh, all of the alarm bells or whatever are firing off in my mind. feel like I have instant connotations of Bobby Knight, like throwing a chair across the floor and Indiana basketball. so what are we going to analyze that later? Well, we actually want to start.
often as we do with the telling of a story. so take it away from there, Cody. Father, let's do this.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, so I have a story that came up recently and this was probably 10 years ago, but it is resurfaced. And it is a it is a story of failure for sure. So I was 10 years ago or so we're sitting in the dining room. think we had friends over. I don't remember the specifics, but something happened. And my oldest son is five or six years old at the time. I don't know what he did. If I had to like
guess he probably didn't even know that he'd done something wrong or something, you know, but like there's people there. And so I'm like, you know, trying to be the like example of, know, good dad discipline, whatever, you know, my house and work kind of thing. And anyway, I put them on timeout and for us timeout, what that looked like for better or worse, this is not prescriptive. This is descriptive was I had them put their nose on the wall.
somewhere and they had to stand there with their nose on the wall on timeout. That was their like punishment. Yeah. And in this situation, I had him leave the room and I had him put his nose on the wall in some other room or hallway or something back to the dining room, sitting there having dinner, probably laughing, you know, engaging because you know, whatever, trying to be charismatic and host people and yeah. Well, bottom line timeout.
Probably shouldn't be more than like three minutes, but I totally forgot he was on timeout. So his brother and sister are still at the table. His guests are at the table and like 20 minutes goes by. And I don't remember exactly what happened, you know, where, how I realized that was the case or whatever, but this came up recently because it came out in his therapy session and he approached me afterwards and was telling me his side of the story. Yeah.
Jesse French
man.
Cody Buriff
that as he remembered it of like, he's sitting there, he has been sent away from the table, sent away from community, away from sustenance, into isolation, and he's waiting for me. Come and get him. And waiting. And waiting. And then realizing that he's been forgotten. And his soul is crumbling.
as this little five, six year old. And I probably didn't even know that he had done something wrong when he did it, you was doing something. And so I now have to sit with that of like, but like, wish I could go back and do that differently. You know, of course.
Jesse French
Man, Cody, I thank you your honesty in sharing that. I, love fact that like your son engaged that and then came to you and was like, Hey, this is an important thing. And this is what I felt and your ability to just like receive that and sit with that. before we continue the conversation, like just that element there, I think is such an encouraging thing. And we're going to get into some of this, but the fact of like, Hey, it sounds to me like that pursuit of repair.
Cody Buriff
of the f-
Jesse French
from something that happened a bunch of years ago, like is started and your willingness to hear your son, the courage that he had to bring that, the safety that he feels with you to say, Hey, I'm going to bring this to my dad. Like, I want to start by saying, thanks for sharing that. And I feel like that's a really hopeful picture of what it looks like with our kids, right? Cause it's not, we've said it before, but it's not the absence of rupture, right? That is like, right. Good following. is the actually the pursuit of repair, which you guys are in the midst of.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, I mean, none of us are Jesus, right? We're all going to screw up. We're all going to mess up our kids. We just, you know, decided to start paying for his therapy now.
Jesse French
It's really good story too, because I can even feel within me as, you tell that story, part of me wants to just swing to the like total opposite end of the kind of pendulum and just be like, gosh, the space of, you know, a discipline or correction of something that's happening with our kids that feels ripe with
landmines. So let's just swing all the way over to the like, ⁓ let's not have any, know, and I can feel that within me, which I know is not particularly helpful. But I, I'd love to start by exploring because in that, I think there's some really, really important and interesting pieces of that. Before we hit record, you and I were talking about it. And I think one of the really wise things that you said is when we're with our kids and there's, you know, some sort of mistake or something that we feel like
boundary they've crossed or something that needs correction. You had this helpful phrase you said, usually our reaction means that something in us feels threatened. And I think that's true. And I'd love for you to maybe just unpack that a little bit, because I think that's an element of some of this that's really important to understand.
Cody Buriff
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Well, maybe I'll start with like, cause this would be a little bit easier to kind of recognize in ourselves. Like what is the reaction that happens? So all of us have experienced this where we're in a public space and our kid is like being a total turd thrown up to it or being obnoxious or whatever. Right. That happens in private. And that's one thing that also happens in public and either way, either of those spaces, you know, they're being annoying or just disruptive or whatever.
We react. And the reaction typically is either like as we like to talk about powering up and powering down, right? We get big and take up a ton of space and get angry and put on dad voice and, you know, drop an octave and, you know, scare them into behaving. Yep. Or sometimes we'll just shrink back and just leave and not show up at all.
go to the garage, outside, whatever, you know, and just give up. probably to some degree we do both from time to time.
Jesse French
Yeah.
Cody Buriff
And I think that it's not that we shouldn't, you know, put on dad voice. It's not that like, you know, necessarily, but if we're not aware of what's going on under the surface, we are literally just reacting. We're not being intentional fathers. Yep. We're not engaging our children's hearts. We're actually reacting to something that's going on inside of us. And so that's yeah, something in you when you're responding with a lot of power.
or absence, like something in you is feeling threatened.
Jesse French
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So your invitation, right, is in pursuit of thoughtfully engaging this, that one of the very, very first things is first to start with ourselves, to be aware of what is my reaction? Is it, you know, one of those two dynamics? And then to be able to have that be hopefully a prompt to be more aware and ask, be somewhat curious of like, and why do I need to get big or why do I need to withdraw? Right? Like to that space of what feels threatened that can...
can be maintained or be kept safe by a lot of energy or no energy.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, like I heard somebody say this years ago. I don't know where this comes from, but like you've never seen an angry dog.
Jesse French
Yeah
Cody Buriff
We've, know, you see dogs that look pissed off, right? But we've never actually seen an angry dog because dogs don't get angry. Anger is not actually a primary emotion. It's a secondary emotion that, know, typically when you see a dog that's in that state, it is feeling threatened. It's feeling protective. Yep. Whether it is actually in danger or not, it
feels like it is. And so it's responding in a protective stance. Yep. And so the reality is this the same is true for us. Like we get angry, but as a secondary, you know, it is, it is actually a protective response and it's protecting something. And typically for us, it's like an insecurity around what is everybody else going to think? Yeah. Not me as a dad or how does their behavior reflect on me or
You know, I feel like I'm being disrespected right now by this five year old. So therefore I need to command respect. Yeah. You know, or something like that.
Jesse French
For sure. And I think that's really helpful because it surfaces the reality that that need for respect or that desire to have our appearance be a certain way around other people. feel like that's some of the gift of kids is they are surfacing what is already there. Right. And so maybe in this instance, it's through, you know, getting a disagreement with their brother, sister, or something like that. But the gift is like, Hey, this is true in you dad of like, there can be this.
man, I want my image to be really polished and I don't want people to think I'm a crappy dad. And so the hard part of that is like the reaction to that can be all sorts of sideways of the power up of the power down, neither of which generally is like particularly helpful. But it is it is this interesting invitation to like what is true in our own lives that we might not know or we do know, but have forgotten or real would wish that it was not true. Right. Like as you're telling that story with your son,
I feel that sort of maybe pressure or dynamic of there's other people at your house. Like there's that element. And I put myself in your shoes of like, in some ways I'm on display and my kids are on display. Right. And so even that statement is really telling. Right. And so when there is some friction, when there's some bumps in the road, I feel the bad image of our relationship, who my kids are, who I am, that feels threatened. And so.
Let's respond out of this, you know, in this way that feels like that controls that. So, that's a long way of saying that invitation to wonder how am I responding and what is feeling that I think is really hard work, but really important work in this process.
Cody Buriff
I think it's probably the most important work. It's like, you know, when we are reacting out of like, I don't know, lizard brain or whatever, you know, when you're feeling threatened, you're like cognitive center turns off and you're suddenly like, total amygdala, like emotional reaction. You're not responding out of a stable place.
You're you know, you see people flip their lid and start like wailing on their kids or whatever like they're not mentally stable in that moment Yeah, and when we're responding big and or small like when we're responding protectively It's not like we're not thinking straight we're not responding from a stable place of settledness of confidence in who we are our identity because if a five-year-old
is threatening your identity and you need to yell at this kid or spank them or whatever in order to make yourself feel better. That says a lot about how small you are.
Jesse French
Well, and it, I think that's true. And it also, it also just feels like invitation to more consideration of what disrespect or what, you know, unfiltered words has meant in our life and how we have learned to navigate that.
Cody Buriff
⁓ it's good. Yeah, totally. I think there's a difference between discipline that is reactive and coming from a place of subtleness. Basically what I, what I'm trying to say is there is a reactive discipline that is about behavior modification for the sake of making you as a dad feel better or look better. And there is a discipline that is coming from a settled place that is about person formation. Yup.
and doesn't actually have significant implications upon yourself. Totally. I mean, the reality is Jesse, like, we're going to screw up our kids. We actually have no control over whether they go to heaven or not. have no control over what they end up doing in their lives, you know, long-term. We're responsible to be faithful in the moment to engage in human formation, like person formation, identity, you know, person.
Jesse French
know, we've talked about this probably in other episodes, but I think it bears repeating. Like I'm nodding as you're saying that. And yet my, my internal how I live also is like, I don't know if you're right, Cody. Like I do operate under the. No, I think I, I can get it right. And I actually, if I do things, all right, I can sort of guard rail their trajectory into the good circumstances that I think are, you know, the right thing or whatever. And that's actually not true.
So what is mine is just what you said around the owning of how am I engaging them? How am I forming them in the sense of modeling of owning my own reaction to them, all of those things, but also having the correct, like, this is your choice that you made. And so there's some reality to that and that is yours to sort through in the same way that how I respond is my responsibility to sort through as well. So I feel like there's some, that work of.
trying to separate out our kids and their choices are not this indictment on us, this reflection of us for good or bad. That's real. You know, like, and so to receive that reminder, I think is a good one. I can remember one time Cody, was talking with a friend of mine who's these kids were a little bit older than mine and his kids were in high school and we were talking about just some not great choices they're making. Nothing illegal, but like just.
the classic sort of teenager, this is not, this is not a great decision. And so I was talking with him about it and he got to the point in the story where it was this conversation with his son around like, you'd realize what are you done? And in that moment, and I could just feel again, sort of the like, man, I'd be pretty ramped if I was his dad there of like, this was not smart. And my buddy just said, you know, I think what I am trying very imperfectly to do is
I need to have the slowest heart rate in the room.
And I remember him saying that and it was such a vivid contrast to like, what is so easy for me of like, no, those situations happen and I get ramped and all of the power up. Like, man, what a picture of to like, the subtleness that you're talking about. Like, you actually have the slowest heart rate. You are not drawn into the waters of freak out mode of reactivity, but like, no, I'm here. And we'll consider like what the response is that you're talking about.
But man, I just thought, that's a really good picture of what could be, but often isn't for me.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, man, posture matters. Mm hmm. Good. That's good.
Jesse French
think
some of it too, Cody, is I'm thinking about it, especially as you're talking about, we reacting or responding and how, I think some of that feels to me, like it's easier to be in the more thoughtful response when sort of the pace of the situation can be slowed down or I can have the view of like, Hey, this does need attention. We're going to engage this, but I don't necessarily have to fix this like in seven seconds right now in this perfect boat.
Yeah. But to say, hey, we're going to talk about this and there's we're going to have a conversation. But to be able to return to that, to just sort of deescalate in some ways. And again, those situations are different. But I think sometimes there is a sense of pressure that I feel like, man, this has to get I have to fix this right away. And in 20 seconds.
Cody Buriff
Yeah. And I mean, again, like you said, it's situation dependent, age dependent, like all the things, right? If your kid is playing on railroad tracks and a train's coming, it might need to be fixed in some sense. Correct.
Jesse French
Yeah
Cody Buriff
But so yeah, there's there's a lot of nuance there, right? But I think what you're saying is like, first of all, like when the situation comes and you know, they always come. But when that situation arises, there is something that's automatically going to like spike inside of us. This is, ⁓ man, you better fix this right now and to be able to just notice it and calm it down a little bit.
And understand what's actually going on for yourself in the moment and able to then rise beyond that to who you want to be in that moment. It's probably more important than the like quick response. Yeah.
Jesse French
Yeah. Yeah.
I like that because what you're saying is that it's actually about both who we are becoming as dads, as humans. And it's also what you said just a second ago about who our kids are becoming. And so it, that focus is a much different thing than like fixed behavior, X, Y, Z that is undesirable. Right. The long game of who am I becoming? Who is my child becoming? That's actually the space that is most.
that the stakes matter, right?
Cody Buriff
Yeah, absolutely. I want to ask you a question that ventures into maybe a little bit ground that I would say I'm definitely not an expert in. What do you think's going on under the surface? Like for a kid who's like, you know, in the space of being, maybe they're being disobedient, maybe they're being disrespectful, maybe they're, on the ground throwing a fit or they're out rebelling in some way, shape or form.
You know, or what's actually going on? Yeah.
Jesse French
love that you bring that up, Cody, because I think that's the space that we want to try to pursue, right? Like, yeah, fight with their sister or their brother is what you're saying is that is indicative of something else that is significant below the surface. And so I think even just that perspective to know that is a really important thing of like, yes, the behavior is coming out of a place that is deeper and still the behavior, actually the place that matters more is what's going on under the surface.
gosh, I think one of the things that I remember our friend and colleague, Chris saying is obviously it matters. Like how old our kids are right. And their ability to be able to articulate what they're feeling. Right. And so huge, big old swing from, you know, three or four years old to, you know, shoot 40 year olds, right. I wonder if the practice of asking around that number one feels.
important, depending on the age of your kid, I think not trying to answer for them, but like giving them some potential categories, which they can choose of like, could be beneficial. Like, Hey buddy, I just noticed you snapped at your sister. You know, tell me more about that. Were you, you know, frustrated by how she responded? Like, again, not trying to answer, but to also say these could be some potential things I think is pursuit of the long game, right? Of.
some emotional literacy of some emotional intelligence to ultimately for them, we were trying to have them grow and us too, of a sense of like, what am I feeling to give language that to not just have that come out sideways, but to give actual words to that. Sometimes my kids joke or they don't even joke. They just eye roll, but I'm not like, I am growing a lot and trying to understand what am I feeling and what, how do I describe that? And so there's a feeling wheel that is like,
you know, the little 8 million choices of what the feelings are. And so sometimes I'll be like, Hey dude, you want to pull the feeling wheel out? And they're always like, no, that's dumb. I hate that. Of course. And then I handle that really well, but I think the modeling of what are acknowledging there's something going on on the surface. Can we wonder what that might be some modeling of what that could be? And then I would say some of the long game of like, that's a skill, that's a muscle that takes a bunch of repetition to actually be built in them.
Boy howdy with us too.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think there's a reality like when a child is disobedient, like there's one of two things probably going on. Either the reality they have no idea that whatever they're doing is like not okay, which probably means they don't need punishment. First of all, just need instruction. And it's sometimes hard to know the difference. So you kind of have to actually be curious and ask questions, right? Or
Like there's just something disrupted inside of them. Right. Something's not well, like they're not operating out of a place of like feeling okay. And so exploring that, like I love the feelings wheel. I, we've tried that several times as our kids have a hard time like naming emotions, but yeah, love the idea of like giving them language. They need that. Like we all need that. Like this modeling of language of, of categories of like, what is actually going on inside of me?
Jesse French
Right.
Cody Buriff
Yeah. I think that's huge.
Jesse French
Yeah. And I love that you said that too, because I think it's the acknowledgement that most of the time, like something is not well, it's less broad brush statement here, but it's less like, this is, you know, I'm just a hundred percent malicious intent to my brother. Like, no, generally. Like, yeah, this is the dashboard light of like, Hey, something internally is worth examining. so I think some of it.
Also to me is I've been curious lately, especially as there's more conversations and corrective space of like, Hey, you know what you said to your sibling doesn't work. That was disrespectful, blah, blah. It makes me curious too, around how much and not that this is a silver bullet, but like how much of my attention and my engagement with my kids, like is corrective versus like connective. And obviously the corrective piece.
That's a reality that has to happen, but it is an interesting piece of, how much of my energy is in that like, Hey, we can't do this. Don't do this versus like, I just want to be with you. And I think that just is a wandering around. Not that that solves all of the, is unwell within them, but it is, I think it's a good counter to do our kids just experience the, the corrective nature of who we are versus I just want to be with you and connect as well. Right.
Cody Buriff
so big connective versus corrective. mean, you think about how, I mean, we all know like our relationship with our dad impacts how we experience God. And so, so many of us view God as this impersonal, angry at us or not even present at all, you know, being. And a lot of times it's because what we experienced from our dad was the corrective. Sure.
or the absent, not the like connective. Dang Jesse, I love that.
Jesse French
And I wonder too, how I think in those more relational connective spaces, my guess is that there can, not that every one of those has to circle around to this like big aha moment, but I think there is an element of, there is some more capacity in those spaces of like when I'm one-on-one with one of my kids, when there is, they have my entire focus and attention, there is the ability, I think to
circle back to things at points, right? And be like, Hey, I did notice this. And again, this is not like everything I'm doing this to the ends to tie the bow on it. But I think like that space can lend itself to some more honest conversation to some spaces or maybe of them being able to articulate how they're doing, right? Where in comparison to, know, in the heat of the moment or something like that, it's really difficult to, does that make sense? I'm not trying to say we're in connective so we can get to that aha moment, but I think there is a difference.
Cody Buriff
Yeah. All right. So I'm going to tell you a story telling on myself again. Uh, this was probably four years ago, three or four years ago, but I'll never forget it. My son, my, this is the other son, the younger brother and his younger sister were in the kitchen and they're messing around. don't remember exactly what was going on, but, but he's picking on his sister.
And I was bullied as a kid and for some reason this like big monster of justice like rises up in me, you know, when I see that kind of thing happening. And anyway, he's picking on his sister and this is a moment where I'm in the living room and I see what's going on in the kitchen. And I like, I got big, I got big angry dad, you know, and I'm like, what are you doing? You know, and, just kind of like big and angry and scary, right?
And basically I was like, all right, like you need to apologize to your sister. And he like just freezes, you know, and my heart was like, you're going to respect your sister. You're going to love her. Like, right. We're not getting into this, like not treating each other well thing. Like, you know, and so I get big in defense of her, but he freezes in the moment and he's like, he doesn't know what to say. He doesn't know it like
And I'm like, you know how to say you're sorry. Like we've done this before. Like apologize to your sister. And he's just like, shut down. Deer in headlights. And I'm like, okay, fine. Well, in that case, like get a piece of paper and a pen and go to the dining room, sit at the table. And I want you to sit there until you can write down what's going on. Like why you can't say you're sorry right now.
And then, so he does it, he goes to the dining room, sits down. And so then I, I go back to watching TV and forget about it. Of course. Right. There's a pattern here. And then I don't know, probably 10 or 15 minutes later, he gets up and he walks past me sitting in a chair and like hands me this folded up piece of paper. It's a little crumpled and goes straight to the bathroom and locks the door and goes to the bathroom.
Jesse French
Yeah
Cody Buriff
And I'm like, yeah, shoot. I forgot about that and open up this note
and I read it and I actually have it sitting over here by my desk still somewhere. And it says, dad, you intimidate me.
Jesse French
Hmm.
Cody Buriff
And I get scared when you get angry. I get afraid that I'm not going to say the right thing, that I'm not going to do the right thing and that you're going to be mad at me.
And there's something in me that was like, ⁓ dang. Okay. Like I see what's going on here. I see what's happening inside of me and how that's impacting him. And so I, his room is right across from the bathroom. And I went to his room and sat down in a chair and just waited probably 15 minutes for him to finally come out of the bathroom. And I was like, come in here, bud. And he sits down and, and I just was like,
But I am, I am sorry. And I said, thank you. Thank you for being honest. Thank you for writing this and sharing this with me. I don't want to be that way. Obviously I don't want you to pick on your sister, but if my behavior is causing you to go into fight, flight or freeze mode, like that is not okay. And.
you we hugged and whatever, but it's like, you know, you were talking earlier, very early on in the episode. It's like, we're talking about repair and how important that is. And it's like, yeah, we blow it is that it's like, we're going to blow it. like our relationship shifted in that moment and hasn't been the same since. we engage with each other differently now where
I haven't gotten big like that since. that just shook me so deeply that I don't, I don't get big like that anymore. I haven't and he trusts me.
Jesse French
Hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Isn't ma'am Cody, that's thank you. Like for that honesty there, because I think that is, I hope that's deeply good news to all of us to hear, right? Of the fact, number one, I'll say it again. I'm like, in that story, your son feels safe enough to be really honest with his dad and to say, Hey, you're intimidating. Right? So number one, like that relationship exists.
So that that can happen. And then the response to that is like, thank you of ownership of pursuit of repair. Like stick so much humility, right? That you didn't say, man, thank you so much. And here's what I'm trying to like, there was no hack on, you know, rationalization at the end. was like, you're right. And I don't want to be like that. And I'm willing to own that.
And so that example of ownership and like you said, of repair that it is this type of conversation where someone says, Hey, this hurt this well off and I'm willing to offer that. the other person can receive that is not just discarding that is not hyper defensive. And then to say that conversation happened. then months later to say that was a turning point. Like that repair.
has shifted the trajectory of what your relationship looks like. Like, man, that's so hopeful. And again, the goal is that type of interaction. And ultimately like that's some of the, the hard pill, but really good gift as well of, of our kids being able to say the hard thing of like, Hey dad, you intimidate me. Like this is true. That then is invitation that I think is then is God's wily grace to say who you're becoming. Your kids are integrally part of who I want you to become.
Yeah.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, totally. It's just, feel like for dads, it's so important for us to know like we're going to mess up and repair as possible. think I don't remember the statistic. I'm Google it. I'll probably blow it, but like there's something around the, if you get it right or at least repair like 30 % of the time, that's enough to have like a relatively healthily attached human, you know, child.
Jesse French
Yeah.
Yeah. Which, you know, we could have people that are experts in that talk about all of that, but at the foundational level, it is what you just said around like when repair can happen, when someone can say, this was hard, you hurt me, when that can be received. Like it feels like the trust that is born out of that.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, totally.
Jesse French
massive.
Cody Buriff
Okay, Jesse. So this episode's getting long. Yeah. let's come up for air for a second. I'm to ask you a question that I'm going to offer my answer and then so you can have a chance to talk about. All right. Is there one or two practical helpful, some guys just like meet a tool, right? You need a freaking screwdriver or hammer or whatever. Is there a tool that you have found thus far in your fathering adventure?
that has been particularly helpful. And I'll give my answer to this question first. I don't know when it was. mean, my boys are 15 right now about to turn 16. And so it was probably 14 or 15 years ago. we came across as the book called love and logic. And we didn't do it perfectly or whatever, by any means, but there was a concept in there. don't remember what it was exactly, but
Bottom line, giving your kids a little bit of freedom of choice within your boundaries, lets them feel like they have a lot more control in their life and they're a lot less likely to rebel against you in that. So what that looked like as little kids, even when they were two, we'd be like, do you want the blue socks or the green socks today? Choose what socks they got to wear or whatever. Just little choices that are like, it doesn't matter.
but they start to feel like, I have some like control in my life. actually have a say, I have some freedom. Not everything is dictated to me, you know, the place where it showed up most helpful was at the playground. You know, you get to this point, you take your kids to a playground and it's like, okay guys, it's time to go. they're like, no, and why don't like, you know, stay forever. they throw it and what we figured out was this, and this may not work for everybody. whatever, but.
We got this point where we'd go up to him like, all right, dude, like we got to get going here soon. Do you want to go now or do you want to go in two minutes? Now every single time they said two minutes. They didn't have a watch, so they didn't know if it was one minute or five minutes or it didn't matter. Right. Well, we knew we needed to get going soon and then, whatever a minute or five minutes later, we'd be like, okay, dude, sorry, it's all done two minutes. And they'd be like, okay. And follow us to the car.
Yeah. Every single time. And so there's something there about giving kids an element of like ownership and freedom and choice in their life that like, seemed like they were a lot less quick to like throw a fit or rebel. Maybe the temperament on my kids, but that's what we noticed.
Jesse French
Yeah, yeah,
No, that's a good one, Cody. And I might kind of tack onto something similar in that is one of the helpful things for me has been like, Hey, how can I ahead of time articulate like something that's important, maybe something I'm concerned about, but to say, to give them some like forewarning around that. it could be the practical, like, you know, chore type of piece of, Hey buddy, you know, you need to get your room cleaned. It does need to get done, you know.
in the next two days, but like you choose, you choose when want to do it. Like similarly to you, right? Of like giving a choice. But I think some of that sort of when possible that longer on-ramp I think is helpful for them, right? Is it just gives them, it's less like sneak attack type of like, what the heck? That just is like, Hey, you're, you got to your room right now type of thing. Like that doesn't feel great. And then also again, I think when possible, some of, even if it's like maybe more on the concern side of it of.
hypothetically, this isn't real at all as we're driving in the car and like the kids start to bicker a little bit, even to just say, I'd love for us to be family, where kindness and respect are present. And I know that's who you are. Like, and you can do that. Even some of that versus the like fly off the handle, just zero to 60 power up space, not a silver bullet, but I think it is some movement in being able to say,
Hey, I'm noticing this. want to invite some of this and giving them some more space to choose how they want to respond to that.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, because you're like in that you're giving them like vision for a safe and loving place to belong. Yeah. That's how we create that together.
Jesse French
Yes. Right. wow. We've said it on this. Chris has said it a bunch. Like we respond so much better to vision than correction. Like, can we actually paint the vision of what we want to be true? So.
Cody Buriff
Cool. ⁓
Jesse French
Cody, thank you. Thanks for this. This chat and your open-handedness. As a dad and encouragement, I'm grateful.
Cody Buriff
That's helpful for you guys listeners. And yes, this is becoming a very long episode, so we need to wrap it up.
See ya.