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In RONderings, Ron talks to his guests about their superpowers, including career advice, diversity, mindset, wellness, and leadership. Ron grew up in New York City, and has been coaching and leading executive searches for the last five years, taking what he has learned from 15 years in corporate, higher education, government, and non-profit contexts. He and his wife are obsessed with reality television, and Ron also moonlights as a men's personal stylist and group fitness instructor. Ron says, "I believe in the power of intuition and deepening oneβs self-awareness and impact on others. I believe in the power of connection and transparency. I believe that we must dismantle systems of oppression and racism to recover our fullest humanity. Most of all, I believe our power to change the world starts from changing ourselves first."
What's up? I'm Ron Rapatalo, and this is the Ronderings podcast. Around here, I sit down with guests for real, unpolished conversations
Ron Rapatalo:about the lessons and values that shaped them.
Ron Rapatalo:And I'll be right there with you, sharing my own take, laughing at myself when I need to,
Ron Rapatalo:and wondering out loud about this messy thing called life.
Ron Rapatalo:Glad you pulled up a chair. Let's get into it.
Ron Rapatalo:Welcome back to Ronderings where we slow down just enough. To listen for the wisdom underneath the resume. Today's conversation is Jameelah Stuckey, a leader whose life has been shaped by multiplicity. Born and raised in South Central LA, ninth of 10 siblings, raised between mosque and church with three parents who each taught her something different about faith, discipline, and respect. Jameelah started in finance, watching Washington Mutual, Bank of America, the White House during the Obama administration for a moment many of us know too well, being told she was too passionate about certain people.
Ron Rapatalo:That moment didn't shut her down and redirected her. She moved into education, teaching, founding a school in Compton, leading innovative virtual models, now serves nationally through TNTP, researching what real scalable change could look like. This episode is about identity, transitions, neurodivergence, power, humility, and the quite discipline of becoming who you're meant to be, not losing your softness along the way. Let's get into it. Hey, friends.
Ron Rapatalo:Before we get started, I wanna share something that's been a big part of my own journey. Two years ago, I published my book Leverage. That experience cracked something open for me. I saw how publishing isn't just about pages, about owning your story, sharpening your voice, and amplifying your impact. The part that meant the most, readers reached out to me to say they felt seen.
Ron Rapatalo:That's when I knew this work mattered. I loved it so much I cofounded Leverage Publishing Group with friends who would make know this world inside and out. Now we help leaders, entrepreneurs, and change makers turn their ideas into books and podcasts that actually move people. Got a star in you, and I know you do. Let's chat.
Ron Rapatalo:Find me on LinkedIn or at leveragepublishinggroup.com. Because the world doesn't just need more books, it needs your book. Alright. Let's get to today's episode. Peace.
Ron Rapatalo:Ronderings fam. I have one of my Ed homies who I met a couple years ago at one of the conferences I usually attend, South by Southwest edu. We met through some common friends at Jameelah's current place of employment. And if you're in the Ed space, you know this place, TNTP. So I wanna introduce my homie, my Ed friend, Jameelah Stuckey is on the mic.
Ron Rapatalo:How you doing, Jameelah?
Jameelah Stuckey:I'm doing well. How are you, Ron?
Ron Rapatalo:Good. Good. Good. You know, if I recall that convo, we ended up talking at the big picture learning leadership journeys event, which in of itself, if folks don't know the Ed Space, it's one of those, like, really fun, nurturing events where you get to hear from these amazing leaders who talk about their leadership journeys. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Mhmm. And I know one of the questions I remember hearing is, you know, how does your demography define or not define your destiny or something like that. It's, a very hard hitting question. I remember we were talking at the bar, and we were talking about having you on the podcast then and fast forward. It took a little bit to get you on the podcast.
Ron Rapatalo:So I'm very excited that we are talking today.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yes, I am too. I'm very grateful. So thank you for allowing me to be here.
Ron Rapatalo:Absolutely. So we're gonna get right into it.
Jameelah Stuckey:Okay. What is your story? My story is one that starts in South Central LA. I am from South Central Los Angeles, California. I'm nine of 10 siblings.
Jameelah Stuckey:I have three parents, as I would call them. I have a mother, a father and a stepmom. And so my father is nation Islam Muslim. My mother is a Seventh day Adventist pastor. I grew up in both worlds and realms.
Jameelah Stuckey:I later attended Florida A and M University. Fam, you are right.
Ron Rapatalo:Okay, there
Jameelah Stuckey:we I am a Rattler. Jameelah Jameelah Jameelah Stuckey Jameelah Jameelah Stuckey Jameelah And because I graduated Stuckey a year early from school, actually had like a year break in between. And it's not like what these new people talking about the gap year, this is a real thing. I graduated early. And so I worked for the Obama administration.
Jameelah Stuckey:So I worked at the White House. And then I also worked for Corinne Brown, who was a congresswoman as well. So I lived in Maryland, Laurel and New Carrollton. And then I worked in DC.
Ron Rapatalo:He said New Carrollton, I know that stop because when I worked at New Leaders, one of the, program sites after Baltimore City was Prince George's County. So I'd often take the Amtrak down to the New Carrollton stop, and I would often stay in Bowie at a Comfort Inn when I was doing interviews.
Jameelah Stuckey:Very specific. Yes, very specific, but that's a real thing, right? So I was right off the orange line in the New Carrollton. So I stayed in New Carrollton, I stayed in Largo, I stayed in Laurel. I lived in lot of different places in Maryland and then came back home to LA still working for the bank.
Jameelah Stuckey:Then I promoted and transitioned with the bank to Chicago. So I lived in Chicago as well. And then I came back home and I shifted from finance and accounting and banking into education. And so I joined AmeriCorps VISTA. VISTA stands for Volunteer and Service to America.
Jameelah Stuckey:So I did that. I did college and career training for LAUSD. I worked for a place called HOME. And then I went back to school and I got my MBA and my master's in teaching. This is when I went into the classroom.
Jameelah Stuckey:So I taught high school, I taught middle school, and then I became a founding principal. So there was a new school that we founded. This is before like the first thing was a thing. So we worked with Connections Academy, which is fully virtual. And so I did that.
Jameelah Stuckey:And so we kind of were serving non traditional students in a different environment. I served them best in that school. Still there, it's in Compton, California where Kendrick is from K Dot, just in case.
Ron Rapatalo:Ah, see, come on now.
Jameelah Stuckey:Come on
Ron Rapatalo:K Dot. Yes.
Jameelah Stuckey:Right. So there's that, I did that. Then I graduated and I got accepted into Education Pioneers, which is how I ended up in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And so I started working. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jameelah Stuckey:And so, yeah, that's the connection with Cecelia and I too. So then I started working for the Opportunity Project, doing social and emotional learning within Tulsa Public Schools. So I did that here for some time. And then when I left, I got two phone calls. I got one phone call from TNTP, and I got another phone call to help and support the African American Leadership Academy here in Tulsa.
Jameelah Stuckey:So I've been kind of working and supporting and doing some things, TNTP is my main gig.
Ron Rapatalo:Got it. Wow. Where do I even start? So I'm gonna go back into rewind machine. Growing up in South Central LA, you mentioned being, in a family of nine or 10.
Ron Rapatalo:I forgot the numbers.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yes. 10 of us. I'm nine of them.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. Wow. So you're almost the youngest, see I'm the youngest of seven. And then you mentioned having grown up with two different religions in your household. How did you, how was that growing up?
Jameelah Stuckey:That was very interesting, but it was like, you know, it was comfortable and normal for me. But it was very interesting because I did go to Muslim school and Christian school. So it was You had
Ron Rapatalo:to go to both at the same time or at separate Yeah,
Jameelah Stuckey:I would. No, I went to both at same time. So once I started going to a traditional school, I still would go to the mosque with my dad and I would still go to church service with my mom. And my mom is a pastor and an educator. She's an educator and a teacher.
Jameelah Stuckey:So we did that. So it was interesting and it was unique, but that was kind of my first realm into inclusivity because it was two different spaces and people and environments, foods and everything. And so I had a wide variety of friendships, I would say from that.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, that's a really common theme on Ronderings, Many of the guests I bring together feels like I say this every episode. I think this is by design, right? Because I think many of the guests that I bring on and you mentioned in our green room conversation, you had a white elephant event today where your unique white elephant event was having your friends across different cultures bring something related to their culture. Right? And so I had that in my head.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm like, now I'm not surprised based on your upbringing that inclusion and and diversity is something that's core to who you are because, well, it's
Jameelah Stuckey:just the way you grew up. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? How did your parents blend that in the household? Right? Because having someone in the nation of Islam and then a Seventh day Adventist, you know, one might think from afar that those things are like oil and water, but talk to me about like how that blended growing up for you.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yeah, so that well, was kind of the main thing and I learned about when the feminine rises, the masculine will rise to meet it. So it was a balance. So religion was not the forefront of their love and their life. My mom was like, I'm staying up because your daddy's coming home late. I got to be cute and hopefully you got to be warm, so I'm going be up.
Jameelah Stuckey:So that's just what it was. Was like, okay. So there was that. Were the things. The things where it came into place was in conversations specifically related around me.
Jameelah Stuckey:And so my parents allowed me to choose, which I'm very grateful for. They didn't push one or the other. They were like, you pick what you wanna do and where you feel resonates most with you and that's what you do. And so I got baptized with my cousins in the SDA faith and my father was there. He was very supportive.
Jameelah Stuckey:So that's the way that it kind of showed up in spaces. We did Ramadan, we also did Seders, We did Kwanzaa. We did Christmas. We did a lot of things. We love a bean pie in a final call.
Jameelah Stuckey:Okay. And so that is just my thing. So do. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:So what values have you taken away from both SDA SDA and being in the nation in your leadership today? I'm going to fast forward for a second
Jameelah Stuckey:and then we're going
Ron Rapatalo:to go back. You'll know I jump around a little bit just because. Yeah, no problem. ADHD.
Jameelah Stuckey:No, listen, listen, I have it as well, we're on the road, but I'm here for the hopscotch, I'm not mad at it. So the one thing that I feel like shows up very much across both of them is the honor and the respect that happens when you walk into a space, into a room, how you engage, how you show up. And so in a lot of spaces, I seek first to understand then to be understood. So I come in listening. I learned that from both of those faiths.
Jameelah Stuckey:One thing my father would always say that I share all the time is the same thing will make you laugh and make you cry and the same people you see going up, see coming down. So you want to treat everybody with respect. So that is always the base across the board. And so those are some of the ways. Then the other way that it shows up, which I'm still working on, is the difference between aggression and assertive assertion.
Jameelah Stuckey:I tend to skip right over assertive and go right to listen, okay? And I don't mean to-
Ron Rapatalo:Is that a South Central thing? Listen,
Jameelah Stuckey:Well, my mother Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm from Brooklyn, so I'm allowed to, like, you know, cast things on other, like, aggressive parts of The United States. I understand.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yes. Well, my mother was in New Yorker. So I see where yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:That that is.
Jameelah Stuckey:With the horns, with the whole that's her thing. My family, a lot of my family still lives there right off of Kings Highway and other places. It's a thing. And so the respect thing is a big deal and I have been learning to navigate that. And then the other pieces I'm learning is to navigate the not the personal, but the business.
Jameelah Stuckey:So it's not personal, it's business, which is very difficult for me. So I'm working on that part, But those are some of the ways that I show up in the future.
Ron Rapatalo:Well, I'm a hold that thought for a little bit later. Where I do want to go with you, Jameelah, is I did not know you had this kind of like lengthy finance background. Yeah. How did you get? How did you get like, maybe you told me and we were drinking at the bar at South by
Jameelah Stuckey:the way. You
Ron Rapatalo:know what I'm saying? But I'm I'm curious, right? Because I find in working the world of K-twelve education, right? There are folks who like go straight in and there are folks like you and I that sort of takes a little bit for us to find K-twelve ed. Talk to me about, first of all, like why finance?
Ron Rapatalo:What did you do? What did you learn from being in that sector?
Jameelah Stuckey:Yeah, so first of all, started with me because I said, I said my mother was an educator and I was like, I don't wanna be like my mama. I wanna do the opposite thing. So that's why it took
Ron Rapatalo:I me long feel like I recorded an episode recently that was told the exact same thing by a guest. Yeah. Yeah. This is very common. I wanna do my parent, but then it comes full circle.
Ron Rapatalo:It's like, well Yep. It's always there. So here it is.
Jameelah Stuckey:Here I am as my mother. So the way that it came up is in eighth grade, there was this program that Washington Mutual used to do and they were like, we take high school interns. So I joined it and I became a high school intern the summer of my freshman year. And then they were like, we like her. I wonder how we can make this work or if we could make this work.
Jameelah Stuckey:And my dad was all about it, absolutely we can. And so that's what started it. So I worked as a teller all through high school. And then with that, it's interesting because in not wanting to be like my mother, I was the living dream for my father. So my father always wanted to do finance and accounting.
Jameelah Stuckey:So I did it. And he kind of slid a paper across the table quite literally and was like, this is what I'm paying for. This what I'm not paying for. And what I wanted to do was on the not pay for list. So I had to pick something on the pay for list.
Jameelah Stuckey:So I went into finance and accounting. And so it was lovely. And my time at Bank of America was really, really amazing. I have a lot of great mentors and people that I still speak to today like Mr. Davidson and Rodney Gardner, Mr.
Jameelah Stuckey:Gardner from that time. And so I learned a lot about business. I learned a lot about myself, what I like, what I don't like, who I am, who I'm not. And so within those spaces, within Bank of America and Washington Mutual and all the other finance and accounting kind of spaces I was in because I also worked for the Department of Education for the state of Florida.
Ron Rapatalo:But I did not
Jameelah Stuckey:work in education. I worked on the finance side. Whenever they- So it
Ron Rapatalo:was like that blending and it sounds almost like similar to you how your parents raise you for the decision on what faith to choose.
Jameelah Stuckey:Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:You working in the Florida Department of Ed in a finance role, I might say, I know if you thought about it like this was like the beginning of like the now you have a choice. You're at this inflection point of like, you're blending both. You're working in education, but in a non instructional role.
Jameelah Stuckey:Absolutely. You go. Yeah. It was all of that. And and it's interesting because that's where a lot of my advocacy came from.
Jameelah Stuckey:Because I was just like, so why does this school get this amount of money for chicken coops? And this school can't get money for the gym? That's crazy. What are we talking about? Yeah.
Jameelah Stuckey:And none of these were my school that I attended. So there was no bias. It was just like, I don't understand what's happening here. And so I kind of looked more in that background. And then the advocacy is what led me to do Actually, it's not actually what led me to do the White House thing because I got nominated for that by a counselor who was not my counselor in college.
Jameelah Stuckey:She just had snacks and I had the curves to eat it. So I was like, okay, let's go in there and snack. I was connected. And then she nominated me. But I say that because the advocacy traveled within that space, because I found that I was like, there's so much more we could be doing for these people.
Jameelah Stuckey:I don't know how you get, I smelled like smokey on Friday, how you get fired on your day off? I don't
Ron Rapatalo:know how.
Jameelah Stuckey:You get sent home for two days for something that you're not getting paid for, that's volunteer, but I did at the White House because they were like, Jameelah, you're a bit you're too passionate. I was crying and banging on the table. We're not doing enough for the people. And they were like, yeah, you need to stay at home for two days because you're a little bit too emotional right now. And so that's where that advocacy piece came from and that is where the education piece.
Jameelah Stuckey:Because I was like, if you just knew how to do this, you wouldn't even need to call. This wouldn't even be a situation if you just understood the process. So those kind of paces, that kind of roller coaster led me into education.
Ron Rapatalo:Quick pause in the action here. I know a lot of us leaders, entrepreneurs, folks just trying to do good work, and felt that grind of pushing a boulder uphill by ourselves. The learning is you don't actually have to do it all alone. Genius discovery program at Thought Leader Path, like having a think tank in your corner, It's not some cookie cutter formula but your story, your plan of impact, giving you the clarity and assets to take the next big step. I've seen people go through this and walk out with their voices amplified and these sharpened.
Ron Rapatalo:Some even launching podcasts like this one Ronderings. So if you're tired of grinding in the dark, you're ready to step into your impact with right support, check out geniusdiscovery.org. And then being a teacher and then a school leader, talk to me about that because you have such a fascinating blend of like experiences that lead you up to like being like working in a school. So I wanna like now jump into your time working in schools.
Jameelah Stuckey:So for me, the school piece was interesting because it goes back to my faith, to SDA because I worked at LAAA, Los Angeles Adventist Academy in Compton. And I learned about that when I was in school and kind of doing things. They were like, Jameelah, we just need you to come and sub. And if you know the sub set up, okay, sometimes you will sub and you'll be in and out. Other times you sub and then you become it, full stop.
Jameelah Stuckey:Okay? And that's what happened. So my friend was like, oh, I need you to come and sub and do this for me for little bit. I said, okay, yeah, I'll do it. It was middle school.
Jameelah Stuckey:And God bless the middle school teachers. That is not my ministry. Okay? So I said, alrighty then. And he called me back and was like, so I got the job.
Jameelah Stuckey:I was like, got the job? You're supposed to be sick. What you talking about? Got the job. And he was like, and I'm not coming back.
Jameelah Stuckey:So would you take over? What? So I became the teacher while while still in school.
Ron Rapatalo:This is not an uncommon thing about going from subbing to like permanent teaching. Yeah, I've heard this story so many times. I'm like, I think this is something that just happens on the regular a lot more than people care to like realize
Jameelah Stuckey:Really? That it really does. And so that's what happened. And then I stayed there and then they asked, they said, we want to bring the high school back, we want to do it in a non traditional way. We would like to know if you would be the principal leader of that and kind of run it like you would run a business, but it's a school.
Jameelah Stuckey:I was like, okay. That meant that Yeah, I had to create we had a partnership with Connections Academy. We had to make sure that we had another partner who would donate the laptops. We got our people to fundraise and do things for all of the desks and the way it was set up in the space. And then we already had a lot of the high schoolers anyway, but then we also had the continuation school that was next door and a lot of parents felt better bringing their students to our school than they did the continuation school.
Jameelah Stuckey:So once again, non traditional students in a non traditional space for a non traditional school. And so that is how I became that and that's when I was able to blend both. So I blended finance, the accounting, the development, the fundraising piece of things, as well as the education piece of it. And it really, really beautiful and I'm so grateful that they trusted me with that. And so that is still a thing, it is still there, it is still happening.
Jameelah Stuckey:I'm just not there, but it was beautiful. I learned a lot. And it was interesting because I also learned that there were some things I needed to work on with myself before I could fully be the best teacher, leader, principal that I could be. Because there were some students that we did not rock, like we clashed and I was just like, what is the problem here? And then when I stepped back and I reflected, I was like, yeah, Jameelah, you could have showed up differently in that.
Jameelah Stuckey:You could have done that a little differently. And so I learned a lot about myself in that moment as well.
Ron Rapatalo:Do you miss it? Yeah. Being a school leader?
Jameelah Stuckey:Teaching in the classroom?
Ron Rapatalo:Being a school leader.
Jameelah Stuckey:School leader? Somewhat, I do. Love the students. Love that. Don't want to go back to teaching.
Jameelah Stuckey:God bless the teachers, please. Do not want to go back in the classroom. However, I do miss being in the school building, the leadership of it, and more so I miss it because I was able to be an advocate for the students who didn't always have a voice and who people only saw like, he's always late. This person is always that. This student is tired of the problem.
Jameelah Stuckey:And I was like, well, hold up. They got things going on at home. Have you thought about this? Have they eaten today? Do you see he smells?
Jameelah Stuckey:Why don't take his clothes to the washing machine and we can get a new like those kinds of things I'm able to implement and do as the leader. And so it's, yeah, those are the pieces and parts that I'm making.
Ron Rapatalo:I asked that question on the fly because I saw a palpable, what I felt was a palpable change in your energy and voice in talking about doing that work. Yes. Why I asked do you miss it? Right? Because you also did say it allowed you to connect that finance, accounting and fundraising with education.
Ron Rapatalo:It was it feels like that moment was you blending both your father and your mother in you at the same time rather than, like, you happen to work in education, but you're doing finance. Right? Which was Yeah. So Yeah. That's why I asked that question because it was like, I I could see you if I were to, like, be able to close my eyes, like you really in your element when you were leading that school.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yes, it was a beautiful blessing and I absolutely loved it. And I just loved the people that I was around and what I was able to do and the many lives I was able to change. I still talk to my students, they're still checking And with so it's beautiful. Yeah. Well,
Ron Rapatalo:let's jump into something we talked about in our green room convo, the community work you do in Tulsa. Tell a little bit about that.
Jameelah Stuckey:Tulsa is the place that I always say to people is a place where you can realize your dreams. And so, and what I mean by that is in LA, honey, I would still be dreaming. Don't wake me, I'm dreaming. Okay, on my Christopher Rollins, I would still be doing because in real life in Tulsa, you're able to do it and take it from a dream space to an actual implementation space. And so I am the education chair for the Greater Tulsa Area African American Affairs Commission.
Jameelah Stuckey:So we advise the mayor on issues that are implementing or affecting the African American community. I am currently now, I will be starting that term in January as to be the chair of Tulsa Young Professionals. Thank you so much, I'm grateful. Tulsa Young Professionals, I will be the chair there. I am on the board of the Tulsa Area Air United Way.
Jameelah Stuckey:Am also That's cool. From Tulsa Legacy Charter. Oh, okay. A few things. There's so much work to be done there.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm gonna ask in the small world of small worlds because I met her what we're supposed to talk like, this is my, like, full time job hat on. Ashley Harris Phillipson, does that sound
Jameelah Stuckey:like Ashley Phillipson. I love her. Yeah. She's dope.
Ron Rapatalo:She is. We are talking in January. It looks like we were supposed to talk in December. Okay. At the time it's recorded.
Ron Rapatalo:So yeah. Also, I will
Jameelah Stuckey:well, I don't know if she's gonna give it to you or not, but I will. Carlysha Bradley?
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. We talked in the past, I haven't talked to
Jameelah Stuckey:her in
Ron Rapatalo:a minute. Know she's doing big things out there, right? Big, big.
Jameelah Stuckey:Everybody wanna be her when they grow up, she's amazing.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, that one of Tulsa, and it's funny. So this is getting like all my, like, Tulsa stuff. He leads Kipp, Oklahoma right now. Oh my god. What's the brother's name?
Ron Rapatalo:Oh my god. I'm like
Jameelah Stuckey:Oklahoma or Tulsa? Dontario?
Ron Rapatalo:Yes. Bingo. Yeah.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yeah. He's good people.
Ron Rapatalo:The world is yeah. World is Sounds was
Jameelah Stuckey:crazy. Yep. I
Ron Rapatalo:had not lived in the area. Let's be clear. Like, how does Ron Reptile know these people? Because I'm at the Yat Space, y'all.
Jameelah Stuckey:No, that's because you Ron Reptile, that's why I'm
Ron Rapatalo:Oh, that's that's that's also true. Don't need to listen where you know people. That's how people Everybody
Jameelah Stuckey:knows you. It doesn't matter what space. Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:Oh, wow. What
Jameelah Stuckey:a small So those yes, it is a very small world, but those are some of the things that I do in the community and have done. I'm also a commissioner on the animal welfare commission. I have animals.
Ron Rapatalo:So What what I'm hearing for you, I'm so fascinated. Right? Because Mhmm. You know, you talked about the juxtaposition between LA and Tulsa. Like, you would have still been dreaming in LA, but in Tulsa, you could dream and implement.
Ron Rapatalo:Talk to the what's different. I mean, I know LA well enough, but I don't want to presume that I know Tulsa because I don't. What is different about Tulsa that allows you to dream and implement from your perspective? Having been around a number of different cities and places.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yeah, so one, would say, so they always talk about Tulsa is the most, like we are the friendliest or all these other types of things for a city because we have a large philanthropic arm here. A lot of philanthropy is here. Tulsa is small And Tulsa is not a place of what you know but who you know. Your social capital here is king. So if you know them and they know you, they are willing to do, to put, to place, to create, to help, to support in a lot of ways.
Jameelah Stuckey:We have a wonderful organization, which is another person
Ron Rapatalo:you should probably talk to,
Jameelah Stuckey:to Ashley Sims. She is the Managing Director of Build in Tulsa. Build in Tulsa does a great amount of accelerator work. They have a big partnership with Target. So they have product launch pitch.
Jameelah Stuckey:I mean, they do everything. They have We Build, which is for women entrepreneurs. They do a lot in the community. And we have a lot of organizations that are like that in Tulsa. The other thing that I would say in Tulsa is that you have certain communities where people are like 200 years old, still trying to lead something and do something and hold on to the thing.
Jameelah Stuckey:That's not Tulsa. Once they get in, they're looking for their next. Who can I help? Who can I support? Who can I develop?
Jameelah Stuckey:Who can I sponsor to kind of lead this work after me? And because it's so small, I do believe the size plays a big part into it because it is so small, really everybody knows everybody kind of in Tulsa, it's like one or two degrees of separation here. So it is easier to kind of get two things. Like I was walking in the park, I saw the mayor, this is back when Mayor G.T. Bynum was the mayor. This current mayor, I know him and he's my friend and he's awesome.
Jameelah Stuckey:Name is mayor Nichols. He's our first African American mayor.
Ron Rapatalo:The president. That's why I remember hearing that. Yeah.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yeah. And so he's good people.
Ron Rapatalo:Deal as you know the history of Tulsa. Right? The history of, like, amazing black leadership and wealth. Black Wall Street, right, was in Tulsa. Unfortunately, the horrible race riots and the burning of, like, you know, of things in Tulsa, you know, back then.
Ron Rapatalo:But it's it's something that if I sort of, like, take all of those elements, right, it almost seems as if there's something special about Tulsa that predates you being there that has this really fertile ground of, like, people being really entrepreneurial. Right? Is that Absolutely. Kind of a read. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:And there's an infrastructure to support that, which is also the important element. Right? Because in the small world, small world, right, I'm a Uber NYU alum, been a part of the alumni association, and Tulsa is one of our newest domestic cities.
Jameelah Stuckey:About to say that. Yep. And I literally live right above NYU Tulsa, which is Well, get out of here. In real life, literally. Holy shit.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yeah, I know. NYU Tulsa is awesome.
Ron Rapatalo:I have to find a way to come out there and go visit, like being on official, unofficial business.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yes, absolutely. You should. It would be great. But yeah, those are some of the things that I think are different about Tulsa than like in LA.
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Ron Rapatalo:Don't sit on it any longer, your book could be exactly what the world needs. And so I'd be remiss not to bring how you and I originally met, being at South By and like you work in, so tell me, what do you do at TNTP? What's your
Jameelah Stuckey:So at TNTP I am a senior manager I used to be on the consulting side, which is where we go into schools, we implement change, all of the things that we do. Now I am on in a different arm, which I like to call research. So we will get funding to research a thing and then we'll say, Oh, this is a good thing. TNTP should continue to do this. Let's spread it out and do that and kind of create that.
Jameelah Stuckey:That is the current work that I do at TNTP, which is new and different and at times uncomfortable for me because I do not have a research background. That's not my life.
Ron Rapatalo:I was about to say like how did you come into like that world now of like, because this is new. This is like the newest iteration of Jameelah.
Jameelah Stuckey:Very new. Yeah. Yes. Very, very new. And so this happened.
Jameelah Stuckey:So the way that TNTP is structured is different than other organizations because you are hired to do one job in other organizations, you come, you do that job. TNTP, because we are contract based, which is why they call us consultants, you can be on multiple contracts. And what happened is I was working in the consulting space, they were applying for this federal grant and they were looking for people who had done something similar to this in the past. And this is the exact work that I did when I moved to Tulsa with social emotional learning and federal monies and dollars in grants. We had to implement the research into Tulsa Public Schools, and present the findings.
Jameelah Stuckey:And so that is how I got plugged in and asked to be a part of this. And I was like, I love to try new and different things. I love to learn. I'm always a learner. So that is kind of how I moved over from the consulting space to the other space.
Ron Rapatalo:That's good
Jameelah Stuckey:thing in TV.
Ron Rapatalo:Are. I mean, I think what I'm hearing from the arc of your career in life is that advocate and someone that is like I'm I'm wearing my Bruce Lee shirt. Right? And so Yes. It says, you know, be like water.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? You are very flexible in in having skill sets that meet the moment of where you're at.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:So I'm gonna ask you a predictive question.
Jameelah Stuckey:Please.
Ron Rapatalo:But ten years from now, what's Jameelah doing? Your dream ten years from now? I'm asking you five years. I'm saying ten. Because five is everyone's like, I'm not interviewing you, even though technically I am, but we'll So make it
Jameelah Stuckey:ten years from now, first of all, I'm fly cozy, merry, okay? Cute and somebody look, that's the first thing. Because she's single, ready to mingle, so there's that. The other piece, I am leading, working, and impacting education at a higher level. So my goal is like the executive, the chief, something of that nature within that realm.
Jameelah Stuckey:And I am still serving, living, and loving in my truth, my purpose, and my community. Whatever that looks like, I never want to become inflexible. I always still want to be malleable somewhere. So I'm like, okay, let's bend this. Let's change that.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yeah. I'm still doing that.
Ron Rapatalo:My spotty sense says that as much as you've laid some pretty amazing roots in Tulsa, just seeing your trajectory and life history, I don't think you'll be in Tulsa ten years from now. It's by spotty sense. You
Jameelah Stuckey:know, that's so interesting because I love me some Tulsa.
Ron Rapatalo:I know. But I'm saying it because there's something about your arc that says, yeah, you're going to go where you're needed because you're flexible like water. Yes. And frankly, when I think about these things out loud, right, is I think for most people in any sector, particularly in ed, you often have to, like, go somewhere else geographically, organizationally to, like Yeah. Get to that next level.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? If some of it's just the very nature of, like, you want the next opportunity, It'll also stretch you to like do it in a different context, right? Yes. Will
Jameelah Stuckey:say I do love working remotely though. So wherever it is, I'm still doing that. The working remote is a beautiful thing. And as we hinted on it and played about it, I am neurodivergent. So within my neurodivergence, I work best at the house.
Jameelah Stuckey:I do not work well, I have to be someplace 8AM in a suit, sharp, sitting at the table. Even though I did that for a while, I'm just like, no, no. I need to be able to put a lot of laundry in in between meetings.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. I mean, how did you deal with, like because, you know, it's so funny you say that. Right? Because I think for so long, I think I knew I was neurodivergent, but my neurodivergence, my ADHD ADHD shows up in being really hyper focused. So I think it was masked for a great deal of my life because in k 16, right, being hyper focused meant I was an incredible student.
Ron Rapatalo:I was I mean, incredible a lot of things. Right? But hockey, Ron Rapitalo. Stop it. But I was an incredible athlete student because when I put that focus on, it's just like it's like a laser that's burning through diamonds.
Ron Rapatalo:Like, it's just
Jameelah Stuckey:Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:It's on. Right? But that also meant at the workplace, right, if that hyperfocus wasn't on, my brain was just, whoo. Right? And being at the workplace, like, I didn't like being at the workplace oftentimes, and especially, like, the routinization of like you have to get somewhere at that certain time, you have to leave at a certain time.
Ron Rapatalo:And like I was as a student, if I was at the workplace, I got all my work done, I like, why am I here? I would get bored.
Jameelah Stuckey:Exactly. Yeah. So it's interesting because I was one of the test subjects and students for RIDLAN back in the day. Oh, look at that. Yeah, it was wild.
Jameelah Stuckey:I found it once again, my mother's an educator. I think Jameelah has, and my dad was like, Ain't nothing wrong with her. She want to focus, she cool. And my mom was like, Let's go get her tested. And so they got me tested and that's what it was.
Jameelah Stuckey:I will say the interesting part of it is after going through the Ritalin test, my parents ultimately decided not to have me on medication, which taught me a lot because I had to then create like, what does it look like for me to focus? What environment do I What are the structures that I need in place for me to do the things I need to do? And hyper focus on the right things. Because I'll hyper on an outfit in a minute and be dressed, but ain't no place to go. Because I ain't confirmed nothing, I'm late, I done missed the email, it's too much.
Jameelah Stuckey:So those are the Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. Oh boy, when I hyper focus on things, sometimes my missus is like, Ron, what are you doing? Like, what? But I've gotta do It's just like, even the way I shovel snow today. So as of the time of this reporting, it snowed like a good three inches, four inches, not a ton, right?
Ron Rapatalo:And you know some people, if they're a lot more linear than I am, shovel snow at a very kind of like structured way. Not necessarily me because I get bored doing it the same way. So it's just like, I don't wanna shovel a line at a time, make sure each part is good. It's like, I need to do a couple and then I clean it up, and then I gotta go in another direction. Oh, I wanna go do that.
Ron Rapatalo:It's just like working in this it's all gonna get done. It just may not be in the quote, unquote, you know, steps one through 10 in a sequential fashion. I might go from one to seven to four to three and then realize that, wait a second, doing it that way allows me to do it quicker. It's sort of I've realized, like, I enjoyed doing a lot of things nonlinearly once I to feel like outside I can come up with my own way of doing it. Right?
Jameelah Stuckey:Yeah. Which I think makes sense and is needed and necessary for people to be able to come up their own way. But I've learned that if I am not in environments that allow me to be my own, then I become someone else's. And now I'm trying to be like everybody else and that's not who I am, so I don't show up.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. I mean, that's the thing.
Ron Rapatalo:When you when
Ron Rapatalo:we talk about working, since you and I have the, you know, privilege of working remotely, I've worked remotely for at least a decade. Probably longer. And I've realized how much right? If I take one of my favorite personal development leaders, Daniel Pink, the book Drive. There's three things talked about in that book that we as humans look for, not only in life, but certainly the workplace.
Ron Rapatalo:Autonomy, mastery, and purpose. Mhmm. For me, the autonomy part, I don't wanna say working remotely is necessary and sufficient to autonomy in the workplace. Right. That is not true.
Ron Rapatalo:But let me give my asterisk to that. Right? I think when things are done right and you were trusted to do our work, why not provide a remote option? Because remote's not for everybody, to be clear. Some people do need very structured environments.
Ron Rapatalo:They like to be around people.
Jameelah Stuckey:I
Ron Rapatalo:I get that. I like what I get out of, like, what you just talked about. Right? You know, I can multitask and do laundry. Sometimes I'm washing dishes.
Ron Rapatalo:I can go make myself a sandwich while I'm at a call. I can walk around. Right? I just I think like you, like, think, you know, neurodivergence is so large, but like, I need to have some level of like being in motion to feel like I'm being fulfilled at work. Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:Because I think without that, right,
Jameelah Stuckey:I Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:Once again, it's like the shiny penny syndrome. Like, if I don't have something that, like, allows me to get excited about things in a way that works for me, but I'm still gonna get the work done well. And oftentimes I get the work done well, but really fast that sometimes people just don't understand is what I found. It's like Yeah. My level of, like, speed at doing things I'm really good at is a little obnoxious at times.
Ron Rapatalo:People are like, how did you do that? I'm like,
Jameelah Stuckey:I don't know. I've always moved
Ron Rapatalo:fast with things I'm really
Jameelah Stuckey:good at. You are speedy quick fast. I mean, we talked about the podcast thing. You said, okay. I'll send you an email.
Jameelah Stuckey:I'm thinking I'm gonna get it in a week, couple days. It my thing said ding, and I wasn't even in the car yet. I was like, man. I that is bananas in pajamas. But I think it's lovely.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes. But here's the other end of it. Right? You make the I don't know if this is your neurodivergent experience. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:If I don't move on something, I don't move on it.
Jameelah Stuckey:Oh, yeah. No. No. And for me, if I don't do it in that that's why I have to do it in that moment.
Ron Rapatalo:See, that's
Jameelah Stuckey:what I'm saying. Right. Exactly. It's lost in in space now. Now I'm like, I don't know what to tell you.
Jameelah Stuckey:So I send a quick email, I love a good quick email on the phone, and the talk to text is like my best friend. I love the talk Oh, to yeah. Yep, I do a lot of talk to text things.
Ron Rapatalo:I mean, have to say using AI, particular my two favorite AI tools, Granola AI, because Granola AI allows me to record calls, phone calls, on my phone, on my Mac, and record Zoom things without something popping up that people see. I'm always recording in the background. Oh, Yeah. And what I like about it is that it keeps every it's and it's it's a free tool that you can get, like, you know, everything's a freemium model these days. Like, the the premium model's pretty good, but the free model's pretty good in and of itself.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? Get to record everything. I have you know, do what I need to do. And I often then take the recording then put it into chat GPT to help me summarize, analyze, and follow-up emails and all that stuff.
Jameelah Stuckey:Interesting. So would you say that AI has helped and supported your neurodivergence?
Ron Rapatalo:Thousand percent. Because the very things that I didn't as I've gotten older that I don't enjoy doing, so as you know, this being hyper responsive is it still exists in some realms for me, but if I don't feel like doing something, I'm not I'm not hyper responsive at all. It's like Right. It's it's hit or miss. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:But I have found that because the very crafting of a good and you get this. Right? You work at basically, people don't know TNTP. My my description to people outside of education, it's like a large management consulting nonprofit in the Ed space. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Yes. When you're working with clients, follow ups via email is the way that you communicate 90% of the time. Right?
Jameelah Stuckey:Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:And writing a good follow-up email, I've saved so much time writing good follow-up emails because, you know, it's doing all the note taking, the AI tool. I look at, write me a good follow-up and, you know, you tweak it. I mean, do I sometimes send things on like when I first get out? Yeah. You gotta read it.
Ron Rapatalo:You can't be an idiot and be like, oh, I'm a go send what AI says. Right. Because it's been spelled with, like, that's just that's bad form. Then you just be lazy. Right?
Jameelah Stuckey:Yeah. Right. Right.
Ron Rapatalo:You know, there is something that it's really helped me because of sometimes my propensity to procrastinate on doing things that I don't like doing, like sending all these filed emails and things. And, like, I learned to take notes because I type fast. But do I like taking notes? No. Absolutely not.
Ron Rapatalo:Did I learn to take notes well because I type fast and because I move fast? Yes. But I don't take notes anymore, Jameelah.
Jameelah Stuckey:Because I got these tools. AI thing that Why? You know, because I'm not gonna front, I was a little nervous about AI because after I wrote by, I was like, I'm not trying to have my run my life. Don't got that kind of time. Okay?
Jameelah Stuckey:And I'm definitely Gene Hackman in Public Enemy. I got the car with the because you're not about to get Stuckey. I just don't got the time to be locked up no place. Nope. Because you decided that you wanted to be big, big, bad, or both.
Jameelah Stuckey:However, come on, I've never heard of Granola AI, and I'm gonna I'm going to have to
Ron Rapatalo:It's funny. So speaking of of your TNTP world, I heard about it from Jack Perry when I was doing Boulder Fun final selection at South by Southwest Yeah. Last year.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:Because he was like, I use this tool. I was like, what is this tool? And I'm the per like, if I see something is good, I talk about it to Yeah. Fucking everybody. I'm that person.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yes. Yeah. Dr. Perry. Shout out to him.
Ron Rapatalo:We love that. Yeah. Okay. So now my entire team uses it. I think I got Cece using it.
Jameelah Stuckey:For for sure. Because she is the program manager person. Get everything together. You tell her she gonna do it and figure it out. Oh my god.
Jameelah Stuckey:That's she's
Ron Rapatalo:so brilliant at that. It's not even funny. That's why we compliment each other because I don't like doing that. Yeah. I can.
Jameelah Stuckey:Yeah. It's painful. Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm an ideator, dreamer, visionary by nature. Right. I can come up with 55 ideas in like two seconds. Yes. My mind is like this.
Ron Rapatalo:It's like boiling water. Yes. Absolutely. Structure it all the time? It's a dream.
Ron Rapatalo:Nope. And I think that's a balance for folks like you and I want I want enough structure so I'm not, like, all over the place, but I don't want so much structure that you can't do. It's like being like what? If you have a if you have to get contained by the structure, that's not. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:That's not.
Jameelah Stuckey:I'm a break up out
Ron Rapatalo:of the table.
Jameelah Stuckey:That's what's happening.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? Yeah.
Jameelah Stuckey:It's just, it's not gonna work. So yes, that is a good compliment. Y'all definitely balance each other. I think that's great, for sure.
Ron Rapatalo:So Jameelah, my last question for you before I ask you the Ronderings question is, where do you find joy? I like to ask that question. Where do you find your joy?
Jameelah Stuckey:I find joy in everything. I find joy in peace, I find joy in my Finch app, I find joy in my people, I find joy in my baby, my dookie butt, my dog. He's the best ever. And I find joy in progress. When there is something, I'm like, last year didn't look like this and now it's different.
Jameelah Stuckey:You've grown, you've developed. I get so happy and so excited. But I get excited about new things. I love a new thing. I love something, I can't figure this out.
Jameelah Stuckey:Oh, let me help you. I love
Ron Rapatalo:it.
Jameelah Stuckey:I find lots of joy in that. And so there are a lot of spaces that I find joy. I will say that joy looks different to me at times, because I am a naturally kind of like happy, upbeat person, I'm realistic person in general. That's just my personality. And so Joy to me can look like me walking into South by Southwest and I see Ron there in his purple suede coat.
Jameelah Stuckey:I'm like, ah.
Ron Rapatalo:Come on now. The day that I see someone else wear a purple velvet blazer is gonna be a fight. That's
Jameelah Stuckey:me. It's gonna have to be because if it's not you, I don't know what they doing in it. Like, you gotta take that off. So I just it's like, you gotta come off that. I don't know what to tell you.
Jameelah Stuckey:But it's it's a it's joy. Joy is a beautiful thing. And joy is different than happiness to me. So thank you for asking that question. But that's where I find joy.
Ron Rapatalo:Well, to So we're at that time of the episode, Jameelah, where, I ask you the Ronder question, what's the lesson or value you wanna share today?
Jameelah Stuckey:One of the lessons and values that I would like to share today is what my father said, most of them are from my dad. There are no big I's and little U's, so we work together as a team. Same people you see going up, you'll see coming down. So treat everybody with respect. And the same thing that will make you laugh will make you cry, So be careful.
Jameelah Stuckey:And then my other thing I would say is think, believe, release, receive. That's my motto. It's been my motto for like a couple seasons now. So if you think it and you believe it, you release it, it'll come back to you and you will receive it. It's a boomerang.
Jameelah Stuckey:You throw it out there, it'll come back. So it's got to be ready to catch it.
Ron Rapatalo:It's a circle of life, ain't it?
Jameelah Stuckey:It is literally on a Lion King. It's absolutely right. Okay. There we go. Yes, the whole thing.
Jameelah Stuckey:Right. Because we'll be here. Okay. I
Ron Rapatalo:just might. Well, Jameelah, how do people find you? What would you like to promote?
Jameelah Stuckey:People can find me on LinkedIn. Okay. First and last name. People can find me in Downtown Tulsa. You see where I live now, but NYU Tulsa.
Jameelah Stuckey:South Stalker. Right. Don't be listen, unless you fly fine unless
Ron Rapatalo:Then you look on my girl. There
Jameelah Stuckey:it is. So, there's that part. Look
Ron Rapatalo:Stuckey
Jameelah Stuckey:at
Ron Rapatalo:my
Jameelah Stuckey:So those would be my main things that I wish to Jameelah find. Sure you can find me.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. Well, Jameelah, it is no surprise after we have talked in this episode, the same energy you brought when I met you at South Byer, we were talking there and at the bar during leadership journeys is very much the same optimistic energy that you brought to this recording. So thank you for being on Ronderings with me.
Jameelah Stuckey:Thank you for allowing me to be because I'm just very grateful. Okay. When you and I just sent that email, I was like, yeah. So I'm very grateful. Well, in
Ron Rapatalo:the words of one of my favorite sports heroes, Dionne Sanders, we always come in hot with guests like Jameelah Stuckey. Peace, y'all. What stayed with me from this conversation wasn't just Jameelah's resume. It was her orientation. She lives by something her father taught her early.
Ron Rapatalo:The same people you see going up, you'll see coming down, so treat everyone with respect. You can hear that in an ethic and in how she leads. Now she names the difference between assertion and aggression. Now she talks about their divergence, not as a deficit, but as information. Jameelah reminded me that growth doesn't always feel like confidence.
Ron Rapatalo:Sometimes it feels like discomfort. Sometimes it feels like learning in public. Sometimes it feels like releasing control so you can actually receive what's next. Her mantra, think, believe, release, receive isn't aspirational. It's practiced.
Ron Rapatalo:If you're navigating a transition, redefining power, or learning how to lead without hardening, this episode is for you. Sit with it. Let it meet where you are. Peace. Before we wrap, I've gotta give a huge shout out to the crew that helps make Ronderings come alive every week, podcasts that matter.
Ron Rapatalo:Their mission, simple but powerful. Every great idea deserves a voice. So if you've been sitting on that spark of a show or story, don't overthink it. Just start. Head to podcastmatter.com, and let their team bring your vision to life.
Ron Rapatalo:Till next time, keep rondering, keep growing, keep sharing your voice with the world. Peace.
Ron Rapatalo:Thank you for listening to today's Ronderings. I enjoyed hanging out with me and my guests, and I hope you leave with something worth chewing on. If it made you smile, think, or even roll your eyes in a good way, pass it along to someone else. I'm Ron Rapatalo, until next time, keep Ronderings, keep laughing, and keep becoming.