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A Lot of Words is a conversational deep-dive podcast hosted by Pastor Brett Schoeneck and Pastor Matt Smith, created for listeners who want biblical clarity applied to real-life questions. Each episode pulls apart the questions people actually ask—not the ones theologians wish people were asking.
From tough topics like anxiety, AI, politics, prayer, sexuality, and suffering to practical questions about how to read the Bible, how to think Christianly in a digital world, and how to follow Jesus in a noisy culture, Brett and Matt aim to give listeners honest, pastoral, and intellectually serious answers.
The show blends theology, humor, cultural analysis, and pastoral insight—inviting you into a conversation that is purposeful, biblical, and surprisingly entertaining. If you’ve ever wanted a podcast where you can actually get your questions answered, welcome to A Lot of Words.
How do I know if someone is the person God
wants me to marry?
If you meet someone that they're more
immature in the faith than you, that's
okay, too. You're not, you're not trying
to meet John MacArthur with abs.
Yeah. How far is too far physically before
marriage? Is kissing before marriage a
sin? Can Christians have a make-out
session?
And the challenge is, the more you go
forward where things are cool and you bond
more and they're not a believer, the more
you're basically saying, "Hey, here's a
person that hates Jesus," you know? And
there's a lot of loneliness. I think the
problem with loneliness is that people
feel entitled to misery.
Welcome back to the A Lot of Words
podcast. I'm Brett Shanig. Joining with
me, as always, Pastor Matt Smith, the most
senior pastor-
-[laughs]
-... of Browse Bro Church, both in age.
What in the world are you drinking
[laughs] out of? Come on. You can't, you
can't do this in my intro. [laughs] This
is...
-What is this?
-It's my water bottle.
-That is not a water bottle.
-Uh, someone needs to sponsor me. I'll sell
your stuff. I just like this water bottle
because it fits the size of my books, so
I can just put it in my bag. It's like a
book,
-and this holds 25 ounces of water.
-Yeah, but you know that's ridiculous.
-No, it's not.
-[laughs]
It's just the best thing ever.
-It's the best thing ever.
-[laughs] Thank you. You-
What do you mean?
[laughs] You just...
[laughs] It's so obnoxious when you drink
it out of it. [laughs]
W- I'm drinking out of my crystal shard.
You... What's-
-A crystal shard. [laughs]
-What's your problem?
-Just looks like it's a...
-[laughs]
-Oh, my goodness. I can't even-
-Sorry, what were you doing, Brett?
-My brain-
-You were doing an intro
... my brain is locked up with jokes
because I can't-
-Look at you with your silly cylinders.
-[laughs] Yeah. Your silly cylinder.
-They need to... I, I'm running it.
-Uh, I, I don't even know where to go from
there. I can't... I had an idea of what I
was gonna say, and I saw that, and just my
-whole world collapsed-
-[laughs]
... that someone would actually make that,
and then let alone-
-It's the best ever
-... you would buy it.
-It's the best ever.
-Tell us all the... I know there's a reason
of it stuffs into your bag, or it's some
sort of, like-
-No, okay, let's talk about it.
-Yeah.
So water bottles, I have... I'm a per-
collector, not a perve- I'm a collector,
I'm a connoisseur
of water bottles. I have owned and know
the best water bottles that exist. I have
them all, and they all do different
things.
The problem is, water bottles are sort of
a weird, sort of fetish culture thing
where everyone carries them everywhere,
and I try to play the game where I don't
wanna carry water with me, 'cause that's
so stupid. But then I realized I really do
like having water with me all the time.
-And are you about to cough?
-About to sneeze. [laughs] Sorry.
That is, that is the most... I, I don't
know how to have it on camera.
-I was, well, I was about to, I was about-
-As I'm talking, you're, like, hiding from
-somebody next to you.
-I was about to vamp- I was about to
-vampire it. [laughs]
-What, where are we... We should restart
this. Um, no, but anyways, basically,
uh, the, the nice thing, the bottle's from
a company called Memo Bottle, who I, uh,
[laughs] I'm really mad at right now. I
had ordered a bottle from them and never
came. So if you hear this, Memo Bottle,
you need to give me a refund. And even I'm
schlepping your product, so how about
that? Uh, they're still great. Uh, they
make these bottles. They, they have them
in different things. This is my favorite.
It's just this neat, uh, it's plastic.
It's not glass, but it's not microplastic,
-which is good.
-Mm-hmm.
And they have different sizes. This is a
A5, which is, if you know A5, what does
-that mean?
-Paper, right?
-It's a journal size.
-Yeah, journal size.
And so if you notice, my Bible is also
basically an A5,
and so in my bag, like, it just slides
into your bag the same as any journal
-would.
-Mm-hmm.
And so it's really attractive, 'cause if
you have, like, a satchel or something,
and you're putting your, you know, your
things in your bag, and you try to throw a
water bottle in it, you have this big
cylinder that's bulgy and weird.
This thing just slides in beautifully. It
slides in like a book. It's gorgeous, and
like I said, this holds 25 ounces of
water, which is way more than your
-ridiculous little-
-Is it made of plastic or...?
-This is a, a, what's it called? Titrium-
-Great question, Chauncy
... Titrium-type, whatever it's called,
plastic. But they make one out of
stainless steel, and they have one that's
a slim version
that's made out of titanium.
Uh, but really it's, it's unobtainium
because they don't have any, and, um,
in stock right now, and it's not... This
shape is, I think, my favorite shape,
though. And I think the, the metal ones
are too heavy.
So I like the clear. I like seeing clear
water when you pull it out-
-Yeah
-... 'cause it's not some, like, weird
giant cylinder of doom. But this is more
just, like,
absurd in the best way.
It would look cool if you put food
coloring in it.
-Oh, I'd like to.
-And it was, like, red.
I could, I could do anything. I could put
electrolytes.
Other than you look like an alcoholic.
But-
-Not with this. I mean, this is water.
-[laughs]
It's just... I could put a goldfish in
this and just carry it around. [laughs]
That would be great. [laughs] You should
totally do that.
No, but I'm a big fan of, uh... I... And
if you think about it, what's a water
bottle? It's just a, a shape to hold
water, and what's cooler than a shape that
matches a book that goes in your book
bag?
-Mm-hmm.
-Anyways.
With a spout.
Those are just... I mean, yeah, it's, it's
the coolest thing ever. If anyone that
doesn't think it's cool is dumb.
-All right. [laughs]
-Like, you can't put your... I can't just
stuff that dumb water bottle in my bag
without it being a weird cylinder. It's
-odd.
-Yeah. All right.
-It's a great company.
-So do cylinders slap?
Yeah, they do, but just you can't put them
in a lot of things. And then, like, in
your backpack, everyone carries those
dumb-
How, but how do you do it in your car?
Like, that's why there's cylinders.
-That's the beauty of it.
-Okay.
So here's the thing. Okay, let me say
this. No one cares, but I gotta tell you.
So you gotta have a... There's a
philosophical point to carrying a water
-bottle in your bag.
-Mm-hmm.
So I carry a man bag all the time. I'd
love to show you at some point. But
in, i- if you're gonna have a bag, you
need to have a bottle that's made for that
bag.
Do you understand what I'm saying? Like,
so when I'm around, this isn't the water
bottle that I put in my cup holder. This
is the one I put in my bag. The cup
holder's like, oh, maybe I have a glass of
water, and if I wanna bring it in the
front seat with me, I can just sit next to
me in the seat and pull it out if I want.
But really, I put my coffee and other
things there,
and when I pick, pick up my bag, I have
my... This is my bag's water bottle. It's
made for my bag,
-and it matches all my bag things.
-[laughs] I just-
-So it's gorgeous.
-Oh, that's great. I-
I wish... I should sell it. I need to
sell. We... If I'd had QR codes and s-
sell these things, I should sell
everything. I don't even know, but it's,
-it's the best water bottle.
-Mm-hmm.
Now, I like the ones that clean the water
and do all that stuff, too. They're great,
uh, but they're all cylinders, and so if
they made a s- flat water bottle that also
purified water, that'd be amazing, but
that'd be tricky.
-All right. What are we doing today?
-I mean, I'm, I'm... I... [laughs] Every
time you bring these up, I just... I'm
just so thankful I get to see you and know
you as you age, 'cause senility is just
gonna be such an experience with you.
Oh, my gosh. Wait till I start getting
into, like, adult diapers.
And then speaking of senility, uh, Jim
Healy The Really Jim Healy, last week's
episode, I kind of put him on blast for
his opinions and thoughts,
and I totally forgot about it, and woke up
to 50 text messages [laughs] on Monday
morning
saying how funny it was that I called him
out on what he said.
-So he said it was funny?
-Uh, he wrote a reply to me.
-Oh, dear.
-And, and I'm gonna read it on air right
-now. [laughs]
-Okay.
So Jim Healy is our, is our oldest
faithful subscriber and listener, unless-
-You don't, you don't know that
-... unless someone out there is older than
77 and actively listening to this each
week.
I'd like to think there's people older
than that.
It's great. We have a question from one of
our youngest subscribers, and now here's,
uh, Jim. Uh, he wants to be referred to
as The Really Jim Healy.
-[laughs]
-Him and his wife are professional clowns,
-uh, for several years.
-No joke.
Bobo- Bobo and Precious, no joke, and he
writes this.
That's right, yeah, Chauncey is
interviewing them, and so make sure to put
-a link to that-
-They're wonderful saints
... in this podcast. They're the greatest
people I know,
-uh, outside of myself.
-[laughs]
Uh,
-[laughs] he writes this.
-Sorry, family.
He goes, [laughs] well, I mean, the family
wouldn't be here without me, so I mean,
-[laughs]
-Oh, dear.
"Well, first of all, let's make it clear
you missed the boat by not using the
adjectives that describe me: intellectual,
wise, spiritually influential, incredibly
gifted in numerous areas, just to name a
few. Also, the fact that you guys made my
point about that you talk too much." It's
not a sentence, but thanks, Jim.
"Nobody, and I mean nobody, can take
strong intellectual, spiritual 20-minute
discussions and turn them into 90-minute
gab fests." [laughs]
Oh, gosh.
"So congratulations to you guys on that.
The nice thing about listening to you two
jabber back and forth is that it makes me
feel so smart and superior."
-Ugh.
-"So great and so far above you guys. We
actually need to ch- ch- to change the
name of the church to The Really Jim Healy
Barabbas Road Spiritual Gathering
Temple." [laughs]
-[laughs] I love it.
-Ah, thanks, Jim. You're the best.
Appreciate that. We do love you. You'll
never get a mug still, but, uh, I thought
-that was-
-I think he should get a mug
... funny when I read it. When I read it,
I laughed.
-Oh, that's great.
-I'll give one to Roxy.
-Yes, Roxy gets a mug.
-Yeah, Roxy gets a mug.
Give Roxy two.
-Roxy should get 50 mugs-
-Ugh
... for, um, just, you know,
-enduring [laughs] enduring you.
-All right, what are we doing today?
Uh, this... Let's get to questions. First,
-that's what we're gonna do.
-You're gonna warm me up? What's the
-subject?
-Um, everyone knows but you, because
-they've currently logged on and seen it.
-Okay.
The subject this week is dating.
-Dating.
-I figure it's summer, you know, people are
off of school,
-love is in the air.
-Love is in the air. Okay. Summer camp
-flings.
-Summer camp flings are real. Uh,
I'll do a couple thank yous. Uh, Kayleigh
writes in. She said, "Recently, uh, my
daughter has not been a fan of the car
until I started playing the podcast, so
-keep up the good work."
-That's my granddaughter-
-Yes
-... who's, uh, a few months old. [laughs]
That's really sweet. Thank you, Kayleigh,
for writing in.
Um, there was another one too that I
wanted to read.
-Hmm.
-Hmm.
I was really encouraged by it, and now I
can't-
-Must have been
-... and now I can't find it. [laughs]
-Sounds super encouraging.
-Yeah. Well, I texted it to you guys.
-Oh, yeah. That was great.
-That was great. Yeah.
Well, okay.
-No, we're just-
-I'm feeling impatient.
-Yeah.
-Do you want me to talk more about my water
-bottle? Like-
-No. This is... I'll... While you're
-talking about this question-
-Oh, no. Okay
-... that was sent in, I'll-
-Okay
-... I'll look for the, the encourage-
-Are people sending in questions still?
-Yeah.
-Wow.
Yeah, tons every week.
This one got me fascinated. I was, um,
the SpaceX IPO was last Friday, and it was
fantastic, and when-
-I looked at that and realized-
-And went according to plan
... I wanna invest in something. I
thought, "I should, I should invest in
this." And so I went on the internet, "How
do I invest in this?" And it was really
-complicated, so I stopped.
-You should have. You really blew it. Um-
-Yeah
-... it was great, so thank you.
I don't have any money to invest. I
thought, what if I invest like $100?
[laughs] Hey, you got those book sales
money. [laughs]
Yeah, if I sell books, I can then invest
in SpaceX-
-You could have bought-
-... and become a m- millionaire
... like, you could have bought half of a
share.
-Ugh.
-All right. He writes, uh, this is from
Simon, and Simon is fantastic, uh, but he
writes in about multi-planetary question.
-Here's the quest-
-This is what Simon Says. Okay.
This is what Simon Says. Simon Says,
"Here's a question for Many Words
podcast." It's A Lot of Words podcast, but
thank you. "Do you and Matt actually
think we become multi-planetary, and does
that go against anything in the Bible?
I doubt it, but just so, just want to send
some fun topics, especially with the
SpaceX vision and goal to be
multi-planetary."
Okay, I gotta put that in the right con-
'cause I like categorically lost my mind
for a second there.
I just went into Mormonism for a second.
What did he d- multi-planetary? He means
-like-
-Just-
... do, do you think we'll ever make it to
other planets?
Is, yeah, is... What, what does the Bible
think about
-humans one day living on Mars?
-Um, I don't think it says anything about
that. I mean, I, the one thing I'll say,
when you think about any kind of travel,
space travel, anything,
when it talked about the ancient world in
the Bible,
obviously God knows that... Okay, let, let
me say it this way. One of the things
that happens, like if you're, when you
look at old like prophecy books and stuff,
people say, "Where's America? Well, this
is America. See, it says the eagle." And
I'm like, "No, it wasn't."
-[laughs]
-And there's a, there's a bunch of funny
stuff out there, but my point is, it, when
you read the Bible, it's, though it,
you know, is talking about the world and
it talks about the globe and whatnot,
uh, you know, there's not really a, a huge
concept of, um, like America. No one...
It hadn't been discovered yet, you know?
And from, and in the things like that, it
was j- well, not like the writers
understood these things. Obviously, God
knows.
And so I guess the question of
interplanetary travel would be no
different than the question of living in
America. So let me, if I rephrase it, like
d- does, is there anything in the Bible
about living in America that would be
anti-biblical or non-biblical? I'm like,
"Well, we're here in America talking about
the Bible, so I don't see why you
couldn't be, you know, on Pluto talking
about the Bible either." So
I guess that's it.
I don't know if that's a good answer, but
I think that's the right answer.
-And do you think it's, uh-
-I don't know why it would categorically be
-something that would be bad.
-Just what are y- what are your personal
opinions on spending trillions of dollars
to one day live on Mars?
All right. So here's the only thing I
think is cool about space travel, period,
right now, is it's a giant flex on every
other country.
So I like the idea of space travel because
it's a giant dunk on everyone else about
American exceptionalism, and why do I care
about America, American exceptionalism?
Like the-
It, and it's because this is the best
nation in history.
And I don't mean that in as a funny thing.
Like, we've done more as a nation
historically... And it's so funny because
we live in a time where so many of the
people, especially in the sort of
political system we're in, uh, sort of
make a lot of hay about making America
seem so bad,
but there's a reason people desperately
wanna come here.
This country has done more to benefit the
world than anybody. We're the most, uh,
you know, beneficial to the entire planet.
We are the most wealthy. It's brought
more wealth to more people in more places
than any country in the world. We've
brought more peace to many places of the
world, and, you know, we are a country
that's, you know,
uh, an aggressive country also. We're,
we're a country of warriors,
and we have the most powerful military the
world has ever seen. It's not, um, it's
not even in question. The first country to
essentially run or rule the seas and all
the waterways, and, um, you know, it's
amazing. And, and when you think about why
this country's amazing, it's be- not
because we have a king, but because we
have a system that's built on the
presuppositions of the Bible.
Um, the West is secular, but it's built on
the presuppositions of the Bible. And so
when you look at the,
you know, the benefit of this country, and
then you talk about space travel, I mean,
uh, we talked about this a, a few
episodes ago, or a while ago. You know,
you look at ancient, you know, China and
the ancient East,
you know, they weren't the... They didn't
have like... Their, their scientific
method didn't exist like ours because they
didn't believe that God
was separate from creation. But we believe
that God made everything, the universe
and everything in it, but he's not, it's
not pan everythingism or pantheism. God
made everything and, but he's not
everything, which means we can study
everything and see order. We can, i- as an
act of worship, we can like cut and
measure a tree without cutting God, and so
we recognize cause and effect. And so
this is why in the West we built rockets
to go to the Moon, that we're building
these things. We have... We...
Our presuppositions are the
presuppositions of science and industry
and tech.
And
so going to the Moon and going to these
planets, I think is ultimately to me a
flex on our awesome presuppositions which
happen to be true.
-I don't know if that's a-
-Super helpful
-... best way to say it, but I like it.
-Yeah. It's great.
-I have opinions on it, but I won't-
-But I don't wanna go to space. I don't
wanna leave. I don't wanna, I didn't
wanna-
-You wouldn't-
-I don't wanna go to New Jersey.
You wouldn't... Okay. In 10 years, if it's
$1,000 and you can take a rocket up to
space for 10 minutes and then come back
down.
-Look, do you wanna go bungee jumping?
-Yeah.
Okay. See, here's the thing. I, I don't
even care about it. It's not even that
like, I'm not like... If someone's like,
"Do you wanna go bungee jumping?" I'm
like, "I don't know." I'm like, "I guess
it'd be fun," but I'm like, "Yeah, I
really want... It feels like I'll get a
hernia or something." I read an article
-today-
-[laughs]
... in Brazil.
I'm, uh, uh, this, this girl in Brazil
was, uh,
at a bungee jumping thing, and she went to
jump, and then they realized they didn't
tie the rope
as she's in the air.
And she just splats. And so then I guess
the guys had to run and hide and freak out
and get away, and then the cops got them
and stuff. But I'm like, you're in Bra-
-you're in a-
-Yeah
-... in Brazil. And I'm like-
-That's a third-world country.
Well, and it's not like these guys had
some license. They're just some guys that
like set up like a slackline in the park.
They're like, "Hey, you wanna bungee
jump?"
And people feel invincible. You go on
these trips. Anyways,
I'm not interested in it. I, I mean,
skydiving, I'd do it, but I'm like, I need
to have like...
-I don't know.
-It's all-
I'm just, I'm, it's not, it's, it's all
cool,
but I'm more interested... Like, if you
gave me a choice between going to the
driving range and practicing my brand-new
golf game
or skydiving, I'd choose the driving
range.
-That's an insane statement. Skydiving-
-If you said, "Can you go to your
jujitsu..." Like, like if you said, "Can
you follow your schedule?" Which is what
-I, my dream right now.
-Mm-hmm.
That, oh, you can go to jujitsu class and
then get home and eat a good meal and then
watch soccer or do something cool,
I would choose that. I'm a really simple
person. And so I just... Those things are
-all fun, but they're interruptions to me.
-Mm-hmm.
And so I'm just not interested. And so
space sounds like a terribly not fun time.
Wow.
-I don't even care about it.
-How soul-crushing to-
-Yeah
-... to live, to l- to live-
-I know.
-Yeah. Wow.
-I am the most boring person you know.
-That's true.
-I am also-
-I am so boring. You know what?
-Yeah.
-I said this before.
-Yeah.
-I feel like I do great in prison or the
military just because I'm the most boring
person.
-Well, people, it's-
-I think like totally enjoy-
-It's confusing because you're-
-... all the time
... you're boring, but you're also very
eccentric.
-Ugh.
-So that-
-I'm not eccentric.
-[laughs] Uh, what do you think about...
-So-
-I'm exceedingly rational.
I had a discussion with someone this week,
'cause I said I would lo- I love bungee
jumping, I love skydiving, but hot air
ballooning to me just seems terrifying.
-Well, you're in a-
-Because it's- It's, uh- And because
there's no like FAA regulation. You're
just a guy in East County who-
-And if you-
-... bought a basket and a balloon.
Well, think about it. What... If you
think, there's some weird cultural things.
-So remember I joked about-
-And how do you, how do you-
-... my first takeoff. I was like-
-What if you have to, what if you have to
-poop?
-Well, not even that. There... Why would
-you be in a wicker basket?
-Yes.
Why would you th- why would a hot air
balloon be a wicker basket in the sky?
I know. I know. I just don't like that
there's no redundancy.
-And there's flames.
-Yeah.
So they're like, you're in a wis- wicker
basket shooting flames-
-That's so crazy to me
-... into canvas. Like, it is an amazing...
But see, here's the thing.
Driving a car... Like, I'll do bungee
jumping. I'll do all the things. I can get
crazy. I can have fun. I'm not against,
I'm not scared of them. I'll do them.
Um,
I just wanna,
I wanna be, I wanna live forever in
heaven. Like, I can't wait for my
glorified body where
I just wanna master everything, and so
these things are interrupting my mastery
-of other things.
-Yeah.
Does that sound... That, I, what that, I
said sounds so psycho, but it's more me.
If you really wanna know the real me,
-I wanna master all the things I'm doing.
-Mm.
And all these other things people want to
do are interrupting my mastery.
-Yeah. That's-
-Does that sound crazy?
-No, that sounds like you.
-That's me. I love that [laughs] that
-sounds like me.
-But I would-
-[laughs]
-But, but-
[laughs] Now... [laughs] Oh, g- what are
we doing? Let's-
-But what about the toilet scenario on-
-Ugh
... the hot air balloon? That's the whole
reason I wouldn't do it.
There's no toilet on the pulpit.
-Yeah, but you can run off the stage.
-I've never done it.
-I would do it.
-Mm. I've had to go. You can't. No.
I would do it.
God has supernaturally sustained me.
The thought of having to like poop in a
wicker basket in the sky, and then have to
just sit there with it- Yeah. No- ...
until you landed-
-... you just squirt them aside
-Yeah. You-
-I don't know
-... squirt them aside.
It's very scary
Uh, all right, we'll do one more question.
This is a compliment and a question, and
this comes from Riley. This is the one I
text you guys.
Uh, writes in, says, "I somehow stumbled
across A Lot of Words podcast in the
-wild."
-The wild.
Well, well done, Chauncey. This is, this
is Chauncey's efforts, ultimately the
Lord, but Chauncey putting out all the
shorts and videos. "Just wanted to say you
guys are awesome. I've learned so much
from every episode you've released. I have
a question that is related to a
discussion that Alex Hormozi had on the
George Janko podcast." I don't know
anything about that, but I think the
-question is pretty relevant.
-I like that name, George Janko.
I do, too.
Uh, first of all, Riley, send us another
message. You're getting a mug this week.
-Ooh.
-Uh, give us your address. If you'd like,
-we'll ship you-
-There, there's a secret
-... ship you-
-If, basically, if you compliment-
-Oh, yeah. [laughs]
-... it seems like you get a mug.
-Yeah.
-So the better the compliment-
-Yeah
-... the more they're likely to get a mug.
-I mean-
-I mean, did I just, like-
-I, I-
-... find the secret code to you?
I came here today ready to give Simon a
mug, and then I'm like, "Ah, he doesn't
need a mug," but Riley... Simon wrote,
"No,"
-oh.
-Well, he got the name wrong.
-Adulation? Is that what the-
-Yeah. He want, you want people to adore
-you and-
-Yeah. Adju- yeah, exactly, no adulation.
-[laughs]
-Did anyone give you junk about getting,
-uh, Flintstones wrong?
-No.
-I can't believe that.
-No, they only make fun of you. [laughs]
-I do, I can believe that.
-I, I'm just the host. [laughs]
-[laughs] All right.
-My goal is-
-So what was his question?
-I'm like a preacher at a wedding.
-Riley's question.
-Just get up there and be forgotten. All
right, uh, she
-or, uh, she or he, I don't, I don't know.
-Riley sounds like a...
-I don't know. I'm so sorry, Riley.
-Well, okay, wait, wait.
-Riley.
-Let's try to figure it out from the
writing. Let's try to figure out with the
writing. Uh, I stum- I came from in the
-wild.
-Fr- from my, my, my w- my assumption, and
forgive us, Riley, and write us in and
we'll make a massive addendum to this is-
-Don't even jump
-... but-
-Don't even jo- don't even guess
-... um, most,
uh, either way I think most of my guy
friends l- listen to YouTube debates by
various people, so the fact that-
-Well, who's this Janko, Jan- Janko is?
-I, I don't know, but I know the ps-
-We could figure this out in two seconds-
-Yeah
... by finding out Janko Jim.
All right. Uh, do you... So here's the
question. [laughs] What are we doing?
"Do you view belief as a spectrum? If so,
is there a minimum level of belief
required? Additionally, if someone had
only a small amount of belief, say 10%,
but acknowledges that if Jesus returned,
they would fully commit to following him,
would that be consid- considered
sufficient for salvation?"
Man, Riley, I feel like Riley, that's, is
smart.
-Um, that's a great question. So-
-Does that... [laughs] Sorry,
-does, does that help you decide-
-No
-... if it's a man or a woman?
-I re- it doesn't help me. No, I was at
first thinking maybe it's a female, maybe
it's male.
-[laughs]
-I, like, there, it doesn't at all, but I'm
like, Riley, I don't know if you're a
male or a female because Riley could be,
-um, either name.
-Yeah.
Like Pat.
Well, it's better than Pat. Riley's a cool
name.
It is. Well, it's Pat or,
yeah. But the name aside, the question's
great. So the question is, is there a sort
of spectrum of level of belief? The Bible
directly answers this, of all places.
Jesus talks about if you have faith, uh,
the, like the grain of a mustard seed, and
most people think that the faith he's
saying i- is that...
W- in other words, what he's saying is
basically isn't that their faith is so
small that it's not even as big as a
mustard seed, right? He says, "You, oh,
you of little faith," and then he says,
"If you have faith of a mustard seed," you
know, X, Y, or Z.
What he's trying to say
is
when you have genuine faith, even if it's
as small as a mustard seed, it's as, you
know, you can move mountains kind of
thing, and, and why is that?
Remember the, the thing in the Bible,
faith is not an active force, and it's
such a, such a good ques- question to
remind ourselves of this because as
Christians, especially if you're maybe
kind of adjacent or in more of, like, a
charismatic background, the way they speak
about faith
is
not untrue necessarily, but it's
emphasized in such a way where faith
becomes, like, an active force for things,
and they'll use questions, "Well, Jesus
couldn't do any miracles there because
they, their lack of faith," as if their
faith is, like, an agent in the action,
and that's not how the Bible's describing
it. What, what's really going on is that
the, the, the faith itself that we have in
Jesus, just to put in perspective, is not
a, is a, is a normal kind of faith. It's
the kind of faith that we have that this
chair is gonna hold us up. In fact, I like
the word trust because it really answers
better the question, is there a minimum
level of it? And, and the reason why I say
that is it's the object of our faith that
matters, not the amount of it, and that's
what Jesus means by the grain of a
mustard seed. If it's, even if you have
the smallest amount of trust, but you
trust...
I- in other words, this chair doesn't hold
me up more or less
based on how much I believe in it. It is
the object, the chair, that holds me up,
and so if I believe in this chair just a
little bit or a lot, neither thing makes
the chair more or less able to hold me up.
It is the object of my faith that saves
us. So in other words, as Christians, we
have w- really an ordinary faith and an
extraordinary savior, and so you say,
"Well, what if I have a lot of faith?"
Well, that's great. You can grow in that
faith, and, you know, when, what does the
one guy say? "Lord, I believe, help my
unbelief." You know, there's an aspect of,
of our, the fact that our faith is always
in flux, right? Like, the, um, our, our,
our ability to trust God is always in
flux. Like, we trust him more or less at
different times. But ultimately for
salvation,
if, if you trust him enough to not trust
yourself, you trust him enough to, like,
y- you know, to put your feet up in the
chair, let's say, to, like, rely upon him,
to trust in him, that's the, that faith
that saves you. Um, but to say that you
rely on him or to trust in him, but you're
also relying on yourself, that would be
the lie. So I think the minimum amount of
faith required would be
really
the, enough faith to actually trust him,
like, so to where you're, like, gonna rely
on that to hold you up. Now, that doesn't
mean that, you know, you can jump
out off the edge into a swimming pool.
Like, if I'm standing there as, you know,
the dad, and I say to my kids, "Jump in,"
you can just run. Like, one of my
daughters, Lucille, she'll just run and
belly flop. She doesn't even care. She's
like,
she trusts me so much, she's like, "You're
gonna catch me." I'm not, I'm barely even
looking, and she's jumping, and I've had
some children that they trust me, and they
jump, but there's a little bit of
hesitation there, but in both cases, they
jumped. Both cases, they trusted me enough
to hold them up and to catch them. Um-
But what about the kid that says, "I trust
you," but they never really let go of the
wall, they never really jump? Do you see
what I'm trying to say? So I think that's
the best way to describe it. Um, but
remember, it is the object of our faith,
not the amount, that saves us. And so
really the minimum amount of faith is just
the amount of faith that it takes to
trust in Christ, to rely upon him as your
savior. To,
the, that's even more vague than we want.
To rely upon him for your righteousness,
um, is really what we're saying. So I
don't know if that answers it, but I think
-we did.
-It does. Great. Thanks, Matt. Yeah, if you
have any questions, submit them to
alotofwordspodcast.com. Click on the Ask a
Question button and send us your
questions. We love hearing from you. Send
-us your compliments, your adu-
-[laughs]
-Your, our ad- your adulations.
-[laughs]
Um, anything else, you can message us. You
can-
-Your praises. [laughs]
-You'll send praises. [laughs]
-Oh, dear.
-Uh, no, just thank you so much for sending
-the questions. It's great for me-
-Send cigars to me.
Yeah, send cigars to Matt. That we have so
many questions coming in that I can't get
to them all each week. We'll do another
Q&A episode probably next month sometime
to, in order to get the backlog that we
have.
-Those, those are hard.
-They're hard for you.
-Yeah, okay.
-[laughs]
All right.
-Well, we can-
-'Cause each Q&A is like a way to do
-another episode.
-It's true. Exactly. I know. Uh, every Q
-can have a whole episode behind it.
-I think I would do that if I were you.
-Yeah. Well, I mean-
-I think the potpourri of Q&A is-
-Thousands. I have no shortage of-
-Really?
-Oh, yeah.
-I have no idea. Okay.
I'm limitless.
Um,
le- just lead a small group for a little
bit. You'll, you'll come away with a lot
-of topics. [laughs]
-Oh, dear. And so today we said dating.
Today is dating, as you can see as you're
reading it below this YouTube video or on
your podcast app or wherever you get our
content.
-Mm-hmm.
-Uh, dating. And
I'm gonna start with, I'm trying to see
what question's gonna poke you the most.
-I hate this subject.
-I sort of have to do
-three. I'm, I'm gonna clump-
-What, are you gonna try to poke me? Just
-ask me nice easy ones.
-I'm gonna clump these into three.
-Okay.
-And that's because they're all, the root
-of them is all the same.
-So are we talking dating... Well, I'll
-just, okay, go.
-Yeah, like a Christian dating someone.
Okay, so how do I know if someone is the
person God wants me to marry? Does God
have, uh, one specific person for me? And
how can I tell if a relationship is God's
will?
Hmm.
Well,
let's do the first one first. What is the
first one?
How do I know if someone is the person God
wants me to marry?
Well, the person God wants you to marry is
the person you marry. I, I, that sounds
so mean, but,
uh, the, I think that there's this idea,
okay? And I'm, I'm r- intimately related
to it, and I've told you my own testimony.
Um,
I, before I was a Christian, my view of
salvation was I would meet a girl and she
would complete me, right? The Jerry
Maguire thing. Uh, you're gonna complete
me. This is the, this is the, and this is
the thing that's sold in every rom-com.
This is the thing that's sold in every
romance novel. This is sold in all the
movies, is that there is another person
out there that is your soulmate, and when
you meet them, essentially you're saved.
And this is why all love songs kind of
talk this way. Now, I don't want to pop
that bubble because I wanna, I wanna do
two things. First, we gotta pop that
bubble a little bit, and then we need to
rebuild it. Right? So,
um,
w- the, the first thing is, is the Bible
describes this idea that
what we're looking for often is an idol.
Um,
God is the one,
is our soulmate. God is the one that we
long for. God is the thing and the person
and the, the,
the object of our, you know, delight. And
everything we look for to fill something
that only he can fill is an idol. And so
often th- this is probably one of the
biggest idols,
you know,
for most young people, is this, is looking
for a spouse, that they're gonna find
this person and, and then, oh, this, the,
the movie is saying it, and then the
friends, and then, oh, they have the
Instagram, and you see this. Um, so on the
one hand, does, does that mean that
there's a person that God has for you or
not is a separate question. The first
question is that nobody completes you.
Uh, nobody is your soulmate in that way.
God himself is your soulmate. And th- and
this is not just being funny. This is the
object. When Jesus says, "If you don't
love me more than your mom and dad and
everyone else, you can't be my disciple,"
what he's saying is there's, "I'm the
supreme
goal of all these things." He's not
sharing space with someone else.
Now, that said, we also know that God is
sovereign and good,
and he has a p- plan for your life, a
perfect plan for your life to bring glory
to him.
And that means that when you...
We don't... Uh, there's a great book,
Decision Making and the Will of God, and
the idea is that we can make decisions in
time and space based on our own free will
that we have, knowing that God is
sovereign and, and that it's working out
for our good and his glory. W- in which
case, we can often see what's called his,
um,
uh, personal will for our lives in
hindsight.
-Mm-hmm.
-In other words, he tells us everything we
need to know to act with wisdom, to make
decisions going forward, but often we want
him to tell us specifically what to do,
like what's his specific will for me? And
I'm told, and we're told in scripture that
he has one, that he has a specific will
for me, that he's ordered all my steps.
Um, and so that's important, but he hasn't
revealed that
in scripture to me. And that's what this
question's kind of circling, is how do I
know what the secret will of God is for
me? And I like the word secret because
he's revealed to us his decreed will, the
things that he's ordered that's gonna
happen. He's revealed to us his preceptive
will, the, the things that he wants us to
do, like his precepts, like you shall not
do this, thou shalt not murder. And we
know that he's ordained
often that his precepts will go against
his decree. God ordained the murder of his
own son.
Those are all in scripture, so we know
what God wants. What is the will of God
for us? We need to know the will of God
for us. W- when, um, you know, when we're
looking at understanding the will of God
for us in prayer, like in Romans and
different places where Paul says that,
like in Romans 12,
um, w- he's not advocating that we're
trying to find the secret will of God for
us, like what college you should go to or
who you should marry. What he's talking
about is the w- his will for us that's
revealed. You know, um, uh, "Rejoice
always. Again, I say rejoice. Give thanks
in all circumstances." You know, the, the,
this is his revealed, th- this is the
will of God for us. He wants us to
forgive. He wants us to rejoice. He wants
us to, um, you-
You know, work, uh, to edify one another.
Basically the, the boring stuff that we
think is pretty basic is His will for us.
And so what we get to do is have wisdom on
how to apply that in various
circumstances. So you have a choice of a
college or a spouse or someone you wanna
date,
and this per- one person's a Christian and
the other's not. And you're like, "I
wonder if God wants me to go with this
person." Well, what do we know? We know
that you shouldn't be unequally yoked, and
you know that you shouldn't date a
non-Christian. Well, does that mean you
can never ta- you can talk to that person.
Um, should you date them if they're a
non-Christian? No, you shouldn't. I know
you're gonna ask me that, so I'll get to
it. Uh, but can you give them the gospel?
Yeah. And what if they become a Christian?
Okay. I mean, that's how I got saved. I
was,
I wasn't a Christian when I met my wife.
Now, we didn't date.
It was like two weeks and I became a
Christian. Um, but all that to say the,
the wisdom of God tells you, "Hey, here's
how you need to act." What about this
other person? Well, I like them. I'm
attracted to them. They're nice. They seem
to love Jesus. And I, and I get into this
a lot. I mean, women,
you know, you're looking for a man that
one day is, you know, worthy of your
submission. Men, you're looking for a
woman
that's worthy of your death. I- we'll get
to that. Well, this is good, but what
you're ended up saying yes to when you
find the person you think is the one, as a
Christian, that you wanna date and marry
and ... What you're doing is trying out to
see if that's who you're gonna say yes to
at the altar. And when you say yes,
you're making a covenant to the Lord to
love the Lord in a certain way
horizontally towards this person. Once
you've made that commitment and that
covenant,
when you look back, and this is true for
so many aspects where, what, uh, in your
life, the good and the bad,
you can know that was God's will for your
life. So I wanna say this, and I've said
it before a million ways, but I wanna say
it again. If you're watching this right
now,
what I'm saying is something that, like,
you have to s-hear. It's so basic,
but if you can't, you have to build all of
your wisdom on this first premise, and
that is this:
there is no such thing as plan B for God.
Right now, where you sit, you are in God's
plan A.
That is absolutely 100% a necessity to
understand. In other words, you say to
yourself, "Well, I made this mistake, and
I'm in this road." And we're like, "That's
true. You did, and yet God is sovereign
and knew you would be here, ordained the
fact that you were here for your good and
His glory." There is nobody that's out of
the will of God in this very moment. Now,
kind of I'm circling free will, I'm
circling sovereignty, but you get what I'm
trying to say. So you know, we know what
His specific will for our lives i- uh, is
when we look backwards in hindsight.
So if you're married right now, I just
wanna remind you, and this is really
important.
If you're married to somebody right now,
that is the person God ordained for you to
be married to.
And you're like,
that's it. There's no other person out
there. There, there's no
... When you watch the movie and it's
like, yeah, but what if there's a person
out there that understands me better? What
if there's a person out there that, you
know, likes my hobbies? Or whatever the
thing you are looking for,
uh, that's the idolatry. You know? That,
that, that another person out there isn't
gonna solve those things. The person that
you're married to. So if you're married
right now, your spouse, you should tell
them. Like, they are ... You, you can ...
All the language you wanted to use for
romance, ironically, we don't tend to use,
people don't use enough when they're
married. The person you're married to is
your soulmate, which means, warts and all,
the sinner that you married is your
soulmate. Now, if you're not married yet,
who do you look for?
I hate to say this. Be wise. Just look for
somebody that you like, you like to be
around, but you, you, you want to be, uh,
you wanna live the Christian life with.
You want to ... But at the end of the day,
if you make a terrible decision, that's
still the person that you have, and that's
still the, the realm
of your worship towards God. So like Paul
was in prison.
You know, being in prison isn't fun, but
prison was God's plan for Paul, and so
Paul could rejoice in all circumstances.
He wrote Philippians from, literally from
prison, the most joyful book ever. And so
if Paul can have joy in prison, you can
have joy in a crappy marriage as well. So
I think the better question for those
three questions are, how do I make a good
decision on who I marry, not, is there a
special magical person for me? The answer
is yes, there is. It is the person you
choose in the Lord. I don't know if that
... Do you see what I'm trying to do? I'm
trying to, like, reframe that a little
bit, because we basically have, like,
smuggled in an idolatry to this.
And let me just say for the record, I can
say all this knowing that I met, when I
met my wife,
I wasn't a believer, and I thought, "This
is the person that's gonna save me. This
is my soulmate." When I met her, I'm like,
"She's who I wanna marry." And then right
away, so this, this, I, I don't know if I
mentioned this in the testimony, but I
remember I did this.
I become a Christian a couple weeks later,
and it was so heady because I'm like, "Now
I have the Lord. I know the Lord, and I'm
exploring this new thing of being a
Christian. All of a sudden I have new
desires, and I'm in love with this woman,"
that I'm like, "This is it." But my
entire previous life up to this point was
that this woman is what is gonna complete
me. And now I'm hearing about the Lord,
and I'm like, "He completes me," and I
found a conflict. And this was probably
the first month of, like, dating her. And
I remember in my, I was living in this
halfway house in Boston, and I went into
my room, and I remember my bed had a bike
hanging over it.
And I don't know why that detail always
reminds me. And I got on my knees, and i-
in hindsight,
looking back, you can really see the
Spirit of God in me in that moment because
I did something that I think was wise.
I got on my knees and I said to the Lord,
I'm like, "I love this woman and I'm
excited about it, but she's not my s- the
one that completes me. You are.
And if you took her away, you'd still be
good, but please don't do it. And I just
trust you."
And again, and then I said, I reiterated,
"Please don't take her away.
I really wanna be with this woman," but I
said, "but You're it, not her. You are it,
not her." And it was scary. It sounds
like a simple thing to say. It's scary to
do that and just to say to God, like, "If
you took everything away, You're it and
not her." Man, was that amazing. And so I
think it frees up, and there's another
thing that it does. A lot of times, let's
say you meet the person, like in my case,
I could have-
sabotage this relationship. Because when
you meet someone and you make them your
soulmate, you make them complete
you, you put them on a pedestal that they-
they're, that only God is supposed to be
on, and you sabotage your relationship.
There's so many marriages right now that
are struggling because whatever dream the
wife or the husband had for that marriage,
they're trying to measure up the real
person in front of them to something that
only God can fulfill. And so they're
constantly disappointed in that person
because that person isn't God.
That person isn't the perfect one that
they're looking for. And so
they're constantly mad and embittered and
unhappy because they're constantly being
reminded that they're not married to God,
[laughs] you know? So,
um, anyways, that's ... I went on a lot
of-
No, it was very, very helpful 'cause it
answered a lot of the questions I was
-gonna ask you on that topic.
-I keep doing that, huh?
But, but I hear, I've heard this many
times throughout my ministry. They'll say,
"I think I missed God's will by marrying
the wrong person."
-Yeah.
-And it ... I'm just like, this is
impossible s- that statement makes no
sense.
Well, it also shows,
like,
the smuggled in, and this is what I'm
trying to say-
-Yes
-... we smuggle in so much-
-Mm
-... about what we are entitled to.
-Yeah.
-And it's not because people are trying to
be wicked. It's like all of our media, all
of our books, all of our things. Uh, you
know what C.S. Lewis does this really
well. Like, every story he says is the
same story. Every story is a story about
salvation.
And so,
you know, for ma- many people, the
salvation is acceptance or success or the
... But it's, it's the thing that's gonna
complete us and satisfy us. And for so
many of us, we, as we unque- it's, it's
the dangerous thoughts we have. Like spir-
you want spiritual warfare, in other
words,
is not again,
you know, finding the wizards in town and,
like, challenging them to a duel.
Spiritual warfare is taking the thoughts,
right, 2 Corinthians, um,
uh, 10,
taking the thoughts captive, all of our
thoughts captive to obey Christ, which
means our normal thoughts, the passive
thoughts, the ones that we haven't thought
through, the ones that we just
uncritically have accepted in our life,
they get revealed when we read the Bible.
Because we get exposed, our own
presuppositions that we never examine get
exposed. So someone says, "Well, I think I
married the wrong person." Now, I don't
think that person saying that is trying to
be obtuse or wrong, but that's in the
moment where this is a spiritual warfare
moment.
They're, they are in a cage. We need to
take captive that thought. We need to say,
"Wait, time out, time out. The
presupposition, I think I married the
wrong person, what are you implying?
You're implying that there's a right
person, and if you met that right person,
you'd be happy, and you're not happy
because you're not with the right person."
So then that means you're now weighing
whether you should do something sinful and
pursue divorce and look for an adulterous
relationship or leave a relationship,
break up a thing, break your covenant
because of this other idea that you never
examined, no one ever presented to you,
you just assume is true.
So, uh,
yeah, I just, I think at the end of the
day, we have this idea that we're entitled
to f- to salvation in other people. And
when they say, "I think I married the
wrong person," like, "This person that I'm
with is not satisfying me," and I'm like,
that's not even what marriage is supposed
to be. Let, let me say this. If you're in
a marriage and you're unsatisfied in your
marriage, I'm gonna say something very
carefully. I want you to hear me.
I wanna say it very direct.
If you're in a marriage and you're
unsatisfied, you are a bad spouse.
If you are unsatisfied in your marriage,
you are a bad spouse.
And that doesn't mean that the person
you're married to isn't also terrible, but
you are ... There is no ... I'm saying
this as strongly as I can say anything in
the Bible.
If this Bible is true, if you are
unsatisfied in your marriage, you are a
bad spouse because your marriage is not
supposed to be the thing that satisfies
you. You go into your marriage to be
satisfied by the Lord.
And so if you're not satisfied in your
marriage, it's because you're not
satisfied in the Lord. And if you're not
satisfied in the Lord, you're not a good
spouse because then y- all of your
relationship is transactional,
and that means that you're giving to get.
So marriage is meant to be ... And we all
fall into this. We're all bad spouses at
times, but your lack of satisfac- faction
in another person is your big canary in
the mine that, wow, you missed the boat.
Our satisfaction has to be in the Lord.
And here's the, here's the reason.
The normal way the world views love and
the world views things is, again,
transactionally. I give love to get love.
I give something and I get it back.
Everything's a transaction. And, and we
don't speak of it that way, but we
constantly w-
you know, transaction. Once I ... But the
biblical picture of what we're trying to
do in marriage, Christian marriage, is
unique. Because what God's saying, r- I
think it's, uh, we talked about it Sunday,
1 John 4:16,
4:13-16, we have come to know and to
believe the love that God has for us. This
is the premise one in the Christian life,
to accept, to receive,
and to believe that I'm fully loved,
fully accepted, I have a soulmate. I have,
I'm fully, I have ... In other words, my
cup is already full. And so since my cup
is totally already full and overflowing
with a love from God who loves me more
than anyone can, more than I can, that
love is fully overflowing, I don't need to
fill that cup from someone else. So I can
set that cup down. I don't need anyone to
put anything in it.
And so now I can love other people. I can,
and sacrifice for them and love them
without needing them to fill my cup. And
so this is the secret to loving your
enemy. You can love unlovable people for
free because you don't need anything in
response to them. Now, that's true, if
it's true for your enemy, how much more
for your family, for your spouse? So if
you're, if you can't love your spouse
because they're not satisfying you or
you're struggling or this and that, you,
that means you're constantly wanting them
to fill a cup that's meant to be filled by
the Lord.
And this isn't me, this isn't,
this isn't my perspective. This is
literally the biblical perspective. There
is no other. This is the premise of the
Bible. So if you feel like your cup is
empty and you're w- upset 'cause someone
else isn't filling it, welcome to
idolatry. Repent.
The Lord needs to fill that cup. And if
you're not getting that cup filled by the
-Lord, you're not being a good spouse.
-Yeah. Thanks, man.
-Sorry to be so aggressive.
-No, you can be aggressive. Uh, [laughs] it
made me think of
16 years ago before, well, Karen and I
will be married 16 years in October.
But ... And I had bought the lie of the
soulmate. You had come out of it. I was
talking to you and Paul nonstop, and, uh,
[laughs] he had just mentioned, I remember
one night
And it was very helpful, I think about...
I've used this with people, it's less
eloquent than what you just said. But I
was like, I just said, "I don't know.
There's, there's, there's... I just...
She's just might not be the perfect fit.
There might be someone else out there."
And he goes, "Yeah, of course there is.
There's four billion women on Earth." He's
like, "You think you're gonna find the
one that perfectly fits you?" [laughs] And
it was very freeing, 'cause you're like,
"Duh." He's like, "You know how many other
countries there are and places there
-are?" [laughs]
-Well, you know what's funny about that?
-That's, that's great.
-Is like I, I think it's, I, as you say
that, is I realize like with my own kids,
I've...
My wife and I have probably made it hard
because we have
w- like
we have like this dream story.
Like we met and we both knew.
It was like the, the across the room,
it's what you want. It's what the movies
are about. It's the love for... So we
truly have it.
And it's challenging because we've been
married for 22 years.
-Mm.
-And, uh,
is that right? Yeah, 22 years. Uh, 2004.
Yeah, so 22 years.
And, uh, just had our anniversary.
And
we truly like, we flirt with each other
more than we did. We're more affectionate.
We're, my poor children,
um, we're constantly like complimenting
each other and flirting with each other,
like, and there...
I can say this, and I mean this, forgive
me for being so ridiculous, but like I
truly think
she's the best woman in the entire world.
I couldn't have picked a better person. I
really mean that. Without being kind of
funny, oh, I know she's listening, I, I
mean it.
But that also isn't like the experience
that everyone gets to have, and th- their,
their result that they have is no less
certain
in when you look back. In other words,
let's say you meet someone in, in high
school or when you're young, and you guys
have to grow up together, and you have to
be idiots together, and you have to figure
things out. And then through all sorts of
ups and downs, you end up and now you're
married.
You can legitimately say that is the only
road and that is the person.
-Mm-hmm.
-And so that four billion thing, like I get
it when you're thinking about it, but
like
on the flip side, when you look back, it
is not just being cute. You can look back
and say, "This is
God's child for you."
Like it's a big deal. And when you make a
covenant, like you can look...
I want everyone watching this like to take
seriously that the person you're with is,
it just takes off the pressure.
-You're with your person.
-Yeah.
-It is so helpful, like-
-Yeah
... and, and that means all of their flaws
are like, yeah, amen. You know? That it's,
that's your, it's a ride or die
situation. And it's not because they're,
they're perfect and complete you. It's
because it's who God has for you.
-Yeah.
-And that's, that's, that's the key.
I think that's... Yeah, he said that in
the sense of-
-No, I get what you mean. Yeah
-... the search is, as a single person, the
-search is, it's futile.
-Yes.
But when you're married, yeah, the most
freeing day of my life was the day I got
-married. [laughs]
-Well, and you know what's he, what he
really captured with that is something I
think that a lot of people have right now
because of all of the dating sites and the
stuff-
-Mm-hmm
-... is we have, I think the mistake that a
lot of single people are under is that
they have so many options.
Yeah.
You know, I remember, and, and part of
this is the, the, is the sexual
relationship that's ruined everyone as
well because of like the hookup culture
that exists now because of like Tinder and
stuff.
-Mm-hmm.
-You know, I,
I always like to think to myself like,
"I'm a, I'm a cool guy. I like know life."
And I, when I hear about what's happening
in the world, I'm like, "I am the most
fuddy-duddy. I'm disconnected from
everything that's happening. I can't
believe that's real." I remember when you
first were telling me what Tinder was, and
I was like,
-"That's real?" Like-
-Mm.
But basically, back in, when, when I was
growing up,
if you were a guy and wanted to like, I
don't know, hook up with the ladies, you
had to at least be
good-looking
or rich or something. You had to ha- be,
or have a good sense of humor.
And now like any nerd in the world can
just go on a website and find someone else
that wants to get together. So in other
words, people are just, there's so many
people out there, the four billion people,
whatever, that everyone's just like,
"Well, hey, I can just
get together and hook up with anyone I
want." And everyone's really lonely,
and it makes everybody a commodity and
objectifies everybody. But it starts by
objectifying ourselves because we
basically start looking for traits and,
and trying to find these things. So I do
think that decision fatigue,
and I can see like young people that are
coming out of high school, going into
college, and maybe, you, you know, the
what are the options in front of us, or I
keep my options open. I would just say
this,
you know,
it's okay to recognize the chapter of life
you're in, to be in it, but the idea that
there's like a million,
um, people to choose from, I just think
there's really wealthy people with a bunch
of people all around that are so lonely.
You know? I mean,
sometimes people say to yourself, "Well, I
only met so-and-so because we happened to
be in a
car together, and we happened to like..."
Yeah,
j- again, God is sovereign and he's good.
And so on the one hand, every
circumstance, every meeting, everything,
there's a possibility of awesomeness and,
you know, what do you call it, like being
put together.
God's part of that. You know? I just think
we sometimes try to demystify, and we
like demystify everything, so it's so
mundane, and then all of a sudden we rush
-to try to mystify meeting somebody.
-Mm.
And so all of a sudden we're like, "But we
lost it." Like either everything's like
special, God's real, matter matters,
things that we do matter, and the
circumstance matter, and his sovereignty
matters, and the class you're in and who
you're sitting next to and where you go
and these conversations, like embrace it.
Go... Like in other words,
o- one of my kids was saying, I was
talking to them about dating a little bit.
You know, I think with dating for a lot
of people, they say, let's say you're
talking to somebody and
you start to realize, "Wow, wow, what if
someone gets hurt?"
Right? Just 'cause y- your heart, you, you
wanna protect your heart and stuff. I
think Christians sometimes make the
mistake of like trying to create a
subculture around dating that isn't
biblical either, which is like arranged
marriages with all these things. I think
dating is not prescribed or described in
the Bible. It's just a way people are
getting together, and since people are
getting married much later, we're not
putting our 14-year-olds together.
[laughs] Uh, it re- there requires to be a
moment for people to get to know each
other. But in that,
your heart is exposed a little bit, and so
you wanna,
you know, obviously you shouldn't be-
Well, I'll let you ask the questions about
that in a second. But my point is w-
if you're not willing to be real, like if
you're gonna protect your heart as you
talk to people, then you, you're not
actually dating, you're just
putting on a thing. Like, if you're gonna
meet people,
you might hurt them and they might hurt
you.
Um, that's the price of admission, and
that's okay.
Uh,
but to make the carnage not sinful, you
should have boundaries around your
physical affection,
and you're still gonna get hurt. And
you're s- people, there's still gonna be
misunderstandings, and it's still gonna be
challenging because so-and-so might talk
to someone and that person might not be
happy with that person, and this person
might like a different person. I'm like,
"Yep,
that, that's because you're actually being
real and making mistakes." Like, th- th-
this, there's nothing like, there's not
like a Christian secret to making it
not vulnerable and not
-real, you know? But-
-Mm-hmm
... um, but I, I do think at the end of
the day, there is a bit of wisdom that
needs to be had, and so we don't wanna
approach dating the way a hungry person
approaches, like the grocery store. You
know, they say like,
"Don't go grocery shopping when you're
starving."
-Yeah.
-Um, well, don't go dating when you're not
-fulfilled in the Lord.
-Amen.
Because it's gonna lead you to idolatry
and codependency and the rest, so.
Uh, good. Then we're through the first
section of five that I have.
-Oh, dear.
-[clears throat] That was a, I'm glad you
touched on. I wanna talk about the one,
the soulmate. I, I think that is still
very relevant.
Uh, practically for people in a dating
relationship or thinking about it, this
next section is all about physical
boundaries.
-Okay.
-Uh, how far is too far physically before-
-I knew not to go into that
-I know, yeah. I saw you stop.
-I stopped.
-Yeah, how far is too far physically before
marriage? Is kissing before marriage a
sin? Can Christians have a make-out
-session?
-[laughs] Look, I think this is a challenge
for me to answer well. Um,
I'll say why. I did not grow up... I d-
um, you heard my testimony, so I didn't
save myself for marriage. I was
promiscuous. A- and, and I,
you know, wasn't a believer.
And when I got saved, it was right when I
met, you know,
Rebecca. And she was a virgin. She had
saved herself her whole life. She's a
beautiful, gorgeous woman, had saved
herself her whole life,
and that's what led me to, you know,
pursue the Lord. But I do remember,
I got saved, I'm dating her, and I
remember telling my friends that I'm a
Christian now, and they're like, "Wait,
you're celibate?"
And so I'm like, "Yeah." And so we didn't
get... We got engaged, and we didn't get
married for like a year and a half. Just
that's when our parents wanted it. It just
worked out that way. And it was a really
miserable year and a half of like being
challenged to like... Y- you know, Bible
says, "Don't awaken love till it pleases"
in Song of Solomon.
Um, that was a challenge in that
I only had to deal with sort of that for,
you know,
basically a year and a half,
two years of my life.
So for me to get there and talk to
somebody that's like in their 40s, you
know. On the flip side, let's talk, Jesus
never got married, and Jesus never made
out with anybody, and Jesus was perfectly
content and the happiest person that's
ever existed. So
nobody needs to go do these things. But I
will say this,
having said all that, now that I'm a
Christian, and now that I'm saying what I
wish, you know, was done. And even a lot
of Christians that are like save
themselves can kind of go into categories
that are bad. So I would look at it like,
like this: I think that we gotta recognize
that the affections that we give people
that are not our spouse,
we just gotta be careful with. And so
this, this takes it away from... 'Cause
it's just like the modesty question in
some sense.
If you get too specific, and I don't wanna
get into the details of this, but I know,
like there's stories about like Mormons,
like Mormon virginity and stuff like that,
where like they say that, "Well, you're a
virgin as long as you're not..." I don't
wanna get in the details of it, but you
get just,
uh, whatever, look it up.
But they basically, it's legalism. They
say, "Well, as long as you don't do this
one thing, you're still a virgin," but
then they'll do everything else. And it's
-just-
-Mm
... all right. It's like not, you're
missing the whole point here. The whole
point is that you're supposed to be saving
yourself for your spouse. And there's
something profound, even now, 22 years
into marriage, knowing that this woman
like waited, and I'm, I'm it. And it was
like, "Whoa." It's like a gift-
-Mm-hmm
-... that
I wasn't able to give her, you know? And
I think for a Christian today, let, let me
say a few things. If you're a Christian
that became a Christian, or you've kind of
blown it, and you've been, you've
fornicated or you've done something bad,
obviously, God can forgive you, and you
need to like pursue that. But don't be
casual about it. Recognize it, re-
literally repent of it,
and recognize like
that that's terrible. Like start, like
that's the whole point of forgiveness. You
gotta, you gotta get past that.
But I, so having said all that, there's
like real consequence. I think the casual
nature of like the hookup kind of culture
is not good. So basic things is this. I
say this to my kids. This is a little bit
overdone, but it's helpful.
I'll say to my kids, I'll find like one of
their, one of our friends, their moms. So
like one of their friends' moms, I'm
like, "Hey, so if you saw me holding hands
with Mrs. So-and-So, would you be cool
with that?" They're like, "No."
I'm like, "Why?" They say, "Because you're
married to Mom." I'm like, "Oh, so if we
were just smooching a little bit, is that
okay?"
And they'd be like, "No. Ew. What?" And
I'm like, "Oh, but why? We're just,
just getting to know each other." "No, but
that's Mom." Now, that's not a great
analogy because like, even if you're da-
like
single, you shouldn't be smooching people,
holding hands. But, so the point is, I
think we imagine when we're dating that
we're committed to a person more than we
really are. I think that's what I'm
getting at. So we'd say, "Well, okay, if
you're dating someone, look, they can
smooch, they can kiss." I think what the
mistake is, the presuppositional mistake
is, the whole point of dating is to decide
if the person that you're getting to know
is the person that you wanna give
yourself to.
Well, if you start giving yourself to that
person,
you've already decided.
W- which is why in the Bible, when people
would, there'd be a rape or there'd be a
thing, they were, they ne- they needed to
go marry that person, 'cause they've
already given themselves to each other.
There's sort of a sense in which,
okay, you're already one flesh, right? So
you don't wanna play with it. So I think
if, if, if you have to draw a line, I
don't wanna play the legalistic game. I
mean, in general, physical affection
either matters or it doesn't, and you have
to decide right now. So if you're gonna
say
You're gonna kiss and hold hands, it does-
then you're basically saying it doesn't
matter. Or you're saying, "No, it does
matter. It's really serious," then why are
you doing it without your spouse? The,
you can't have it both ways. So in other
words, these actions that matter,
the physical closeness that matters, it
truly means something. Holding hands and
kissing and does, it means something real.
Well, then you shouldn't be casual about
it. Now, on the flip side, we can be super
awkward, and that's kind of part of all
this. So my advice is I'm way more
of a fuddy-duddy than people realize. I'm,
I'm way more of that. But I just think
that we can get too crazy. So, like, let's
say you're dating somebody and you're
engaged, and you guys have made out or
kissed. Okay, I'm not saying, like, run
off and go to a convent and don't talk to
each other. I'm just saying, hey, put up
boundaries. This isn't something you
should keep doing. Be smart. Like, in
other words, if women, if you're going out
with a guy
and he's not gonna lead you enough to put
up boundaries physically, that man's not
gonna lead you well in your marriage. And
men, if you're with a woman and you're
making out with this woman, you are not
going to be a good leader in your family.
And if you think you are, well, your track
record says you're not.
That's not someone that's worthy of your
submission. Women, you're like, "Yeah, but
he's handsome." Like, well, one day he's
gonna be fat and bald, so
how about that?
Like, at s- at a certain point,
what, uh, that you're in a tryout. And
men, if you say, "I want to put some
boundaries up," and then the woman doesn't
like it,
well, then she's not really interested in
a Christian man. And so the submission
that you think you're gonna want, maybe
that's not the woman that you're gonna
want, 'cause she doesn't want a man that's
gonna lead in that way. And so, uh, so
what happens sometimes is the woman's now
leading, 'cause the guy wants to get
physical and the woman's put up
boundaries. I'm like, well, that's, you're
basically setting yourself up for how
your relationship's gonna go,
right? Like,
you're gonna be the one that's
responsible. You're gonna be the spiritual
leader in the home. So I just think that
men in particular, you should have the
boundaries
more than anyone else. And, you know,
Christian women, you should expect that a
little bit. Now,
you know, if you're, whatever, wearing
super provocative clothing and just doing
the thing, and you're like, "Why isn't he
putting up boundaries?" I'm like, "Well,
you're also trying to entice him." So
there's gotta be a sense of...
This, it's hard, in other words. I, which
I'm, I'm, uh, kind of a, a proponent of
shorter dating.
In other words,
w- you find out they're Christian, you get
to know their family, you get to know
your, them, you talk a little bit, you
share your values, and then you go for it.
Like, I, I know people hate that, but I'm
like, what else, what... You, the longer
you prolong dating, the more you're
practicing for divorce. Like, long-term
dating and not getting married is not a
recipe for a successful marriage,
-so.
-Yeah. Kind of on that, does, can God, if
it's a long-term dating, if it's someone
who,
um, you know, was physical before they got
married, can God still bless those
-marriages?
-Of course. Yes. You can... Look, Rahab the
harlot is in the line of Christ. I mean,
the Moabites that came from Lot's
daughters raping him are in the line of
Christ. I mean,
God can use, uh, So- Solomon was born
after David sinned with Bathsheba, and he
comforted Bathsheba when their child died,
then they had Solomon, and he was the
great king of Israel. So yes, God can use
all of it. God used Paul, who was
murdering Christians. So he can use you.
You are not... Moses was a murderer,
you know? Uh, so this, that part's silly.
I think sometimes, one of the things I
think is really important is let's say you
have saved yourself. Well, it doesn't
mean you're awesome. You're just, you're a
sinner too. Like,
so you're, the whole point of this stuff,
though, is that, I talked about it on
Sunday, obedience to God is the path to
the good life. And we think he's trying to
keep us back from joy, and the, what he's
trying to do is show us where the path to
real joy lies.
And I'm not a prosperity guy in, like,
that God's gonna make you rich. But, like,
there's benefits to obeying God, and
there's blessings in it. And one of them
is, like, my marriage and my spouse is, my
wife made good decisions, and I've made
good decisions now,
and we have blessings together because of
it. And
I know a lot of people that are miserable,
and they make constantly bad decisions,
and they're constantly making...
They, they, they... I don't wanna say it.
Like, d- you cannot act like a fool and be
in your folly constantly and then be mad
at God that he's not giving you something.
Like, does that make sense? So
yeah, that's... I don't know. I don't
wanna condemn anyone, but, like,
especially when in matters of the heart
like this, our idolatry,
like, people get real upset, you know? And
there's a lot of loneliness. I think the
problem with loneliness is that people
feel entitled to misery.
I think you can mourn being lonely and
wanting to meet someone, but never forget,
this isn't our home.
It's n- I don't say this lightly.
Like, this isn't our home, and Christ
didn't get married to, you know, anyone.
He's married to the church now. But, like-
-Yeah
-... you know, so I think even when, when,
when Jesus was talking about the rich
young ruler, he says, you know, Peter
says, "Well, we've given up everything."
And he goes, "Well, there's tenfold of
-houses and spouses and all that." So-
-Mm-hmm
-... anyways.
-Yeah. You mentioned it
kind of in the same vein,
but y- y- you talked about whether should
a Christian date a non-Christian, but then
there's also so many stories. So I
wonder, I don't know if I'd put you and
-Becky in that category, maybe.
-Mm-mm.
But, um, there are so many pragmatic
stories of great marriages coming from
-this. So I think a lot of people justify-
-Yeah, don't-
... a, a Christian dating a non-Christian
because, oh, my parents, my dad was a
missionary dater, and, you know, this
person, look at their marriage. They
-missionary dated, and it-
-Yeah
... does seem like God works those things
out if the person does get saved.
Well, it also, let, let me say this.
There's, that's just a, it's a bias
effect. It,
-you're remembering all the good ones.
-Mm-hmm.
If you tell me every good scenario that
worked out 'cause someone married a
non-Christian, I can show you 20 more that
didn't.
-That, that dated one. I'm thinking-
-Yeah, one, yeah, no, that dated
-... yeah, yeah
-Okay. It, my point is the, the best way to
look at it is, the best way I can
explain, I've explained this to my own
kids.
My life with my wife
was she was on a bad night going to a bar.
I was going to a bar for bad reasons.
Basically, it was two cars that got into a
headl- head-on collision, and, like, a,
and, like, a beautiful mansion came out of
it.
-Mm-hmm.
-You don't advocate for people colliding
their cars into other cars. Like, good
things can come out of, "Oh, I went to the
hospital and I'm paralyzed, but I met the
doctor," like, "Well, so we should go get
paralyzed and maybe we'll meet our
spouse." The logical jump we're making
there is bad. Um,
and the fact that we wanna make it is
nobody that's... I'll say this, nobody
that's not interested in someone at this
moment
is thinking,
"You know, I should date a non-Christian,"
which goes to say you want something. And
so it's okay to want something, but like
what I'm trying to say is you're like,
"Well, this person has to be great." I
think it's more interesting the people
that are mar- that wanna marry someone,
they meet someone that's like, maybe
they're a Christian, but they're a
Christian that's like, like maybe like we
mentioned the Catholicism, we mentioned
the, the wacky thi- like a lot of people
assume per- someone's a Christian and, and
they, because they have wishful thinking,
they have a bias. So I've heard, "Oh, I
don't know, I think he's a Christian,"
'cause we were, we were at a meal once and
he said grace. And I'm like,
that is a f- that's someone that's being
foolish, you know? Um, because here's the
thing, when you get married,
a- a- even... So if you marry someone
that's not a Christian,
that is unwise, okay? The Bible's not
specific in the sense where like you don't
get to like,
you're not kicked out of the church. You
don't, you don't... It's just unwise. But
here's the problem, once you get married,
you are required to live a Christian life
with that un-Christian spouse. Um,
my friends, that is very hard.
Very hard. And so much of my counseling is
dealing with this. And I think a l- I
think the, a normal thing I see is a lot
of people that assume someone's a
Christian because they're in the church,
and they don't see the fruit of the Spirit
in their life, but they're, "Oh, well,
they're in the church and they have the
Bible, they must be a Christian." Like,
when you're dating, you are a fruit
inspector. You are looking to see if that
person genuinely i- like, okay, let me say
this.
Women, if you are interested in a man
who's pursuing you
and not the Lord,
that's not what you want.
And you're like, "But he's great. He's
gonna pursue me all the time." I'm like,
"No, 'cause then you might be an idol for
him." "Oh, well, I'll be someone's idol."
Like, no, you're, he's gonna sabotage you.
And the same for you. So the, the number
one thing I can say again and again and
again is pursue the Lord as hard as you
can, and while you're doing that, you'll
notice other people also pursuing the Lord
on the same path. That's probably who you
should marry.
Um, in terms of dating non-Christians, I
don't, that is not my story really. It was
like she didn't date me. It was two
weeks. It wasn't this long-term thing.
I've never seen it go super, super well.
The people that say it did, I just, I
don't know that many. I mean, I think that
people have been dumb, and then one of
them comes to Christ later or really gets
serious about the Lord later, and then
maybe their spouse comes around.
Well, I don't think they would've said
they were wise in the beginning either.
So,
um,
it's not, it, it is an unwise thing to do.
It's, it's, you're asking for misery and,
uh,
because you're supposed to share y- the
sa- how do you, how do you
go and get married to someone and say vows
when a person doesn't even believe in
those vows?
"Oh, no, they mean their vows." I'm like,
"Be- well, who are they making them to?"
-You know? I j- I just-
-Yeah, I think more commonly someone will
date a non-believer, and then that
non-believer will get saved, and then they
just, they're, "I did it." They said,
"See?"
-And so there's, I, I mean multiple-
-Yeah
... of my friends this has happened to.
[laughs]
-Well, dating-
-And so I-
-... same as marriage.
-It, yeah
-... but I just think, yeah.
-So it's hard when, you know, I remember,
I'll use the name, but, well, I won't, but
a good buddy of mine, [laughs] and he was
da- and I said, "Y- you need to break up
with her. You need to stop right now," and
-then they-
-Now, I was think- I was the one that said
not to. W- and is that who I'm, who I'm
thinking of?
-Um...
-Don't, don't use the name.
Yeah. But so anyway, I, multiple times
this has happened, and then they go on,
and then the person does get saved, and
then their marriage is great for all
intents and purposes. We've had small
group leaders-
-Well-
-... who have gone through this. [laughs]
Yeah, well, let me stop though, 'cause I
think there's a really key element to all
this. We haven't really defined what
dating is. And so
let's just say,
let's say this.
Let's say you have boundaries up.
You're not sleeping around, you're not
making out, you're not doing anything, and
you meet someone, and they're not a
Christian, and you're dating. I'm like,
"Okay. Well, what, what commitment have
you made to that person?" So when we say
Christian dating, what do we mean? If
you're there, if you're saving yourself,
you're getting to know that person and
they're not a Christian, I would, I'm very
careful in those moments to say, "Well,
you can talk to that person." You're like,
"Yeah, but you wanna expose your heart to
them." I know, but like you don't have to
just like run away and be like, "Oh,
you're not a Christian. I'll, I'm gonna,
I'm never gonna talk to you."
How do you say that you love Jesus and
you, you're interested in this person and
you're not gonna share your most favorite
thing? I spent 10 minutes talking about
-this stupid water bottle today.
-[laughs]
And I, and to, because I, like I like it.
The idea you're gonna l- meet somebody and
not talk about the most important thing
in your life, Jesus, and you're like,
"Well, maybe Jesus isn't the most
important thing in your life," which I
think is sometimes the problem, is
someone's casual in their faith,
and they meet someone else, or they're
serious about their faith. Well, that
person should hear it, and so that gives
them... But I wouldn't go forward with a
person. I think that's a good way to say
it. Like if you meet someone, you're
interested in them,
don't go forward. Don't go to the next
step of like giving more of your heart to
that person if they're not a believer. But
it doesn't mean you have to abandon the
relationship. That's basically your number
one mission field right now, is you want
them to become a believer. And the
challenge is, the more you go forward and
where things are cool and you bond more
and they're not a believer, the more
you're basically saying, "Hey, here's a
person that
hates Jesus. Here's a person that
is gonna go to hell,"
and they're uninterested in salvation.
They think they're righteous,
but they look good. Like
I just think that we're... I know it can
work out. I think that we have to care
about people enough to like make it real,
and so I don't know. Like I, I think that
we are too
w- too compromising about the value of our
Jesus, you know?
And so it's okay if you meet someone,
they're not there.
If you meet someone that they're more
immature in the faith than you, that's
okay too. You're not, you're not trying to
meet
John MacArthur with abs, you know? You
know, like that's not your goal. You can
meet someone that's growing, that's in
pursuit, but you just wanna meet somebody
that's in pursuit. And then when you get
married, like that's a, a separate
podcast, right? But like
I just think in the search and everything,
there's, you know-
You're looking for somebody that's on the
right road,
and if they're not on that road, why- y-
th- here, here's a good analogy. When you
say, "I'm, I'm meeting a non-believer.
Should I go with them?" I'm like, "Okay,
that assumes you're on a road leading
towards godliness.
How do you go with them if they're not
even on the same road?"
-Yeah.
-Well, what you have to do is you have to
stop
and see if they'll join you on that road.
But reality is you can walk slower on that
road, but you're not abandoning that
road. But a lo- does that make sense?
-Like, that's the-
-It does
... that's the analogy that has to be
there.
Yeah, I gotta,
-um, just blast through some of these.
-Are we taking too long? Sorry.
-So I may cut you off. [laughs]
-No, it's fine.
That's great.
Um, I'm almost through some of section
two.
-Just do a second one.
-Uh, yeah, we can just do a second one on
dating.
There... It's, it's worth it. I mean, a
two-part one. But, uh, pornography, deal
breaker or not, not a deal breaker? Uh, I
guess I'll expand on that. It's so
ubiquitous,
it's gonna be rare to find, uh, they
exist, but a, a, a guy who hasn't seen it
-to some extent.
-Yeah.
Um, you know, what did you do with your
daughters where you're like, "Hey, if you
meet a guy who's, like, drenched in this
sin or has a history of that sin,"
-um, yes-
-Yeah
... no? One of the, one of the top asked
questions by Christian women on ChatGPT.
-Really?
-Yep.
Yeah, I think that, um, I, I don't think
it's a deal breaker, but I just think
that, let's go back to the first step. I
think each one of these questions is built
on another one. So is this person truly
pursuing the Lord? If the answer is yes,
okay. Or it's like, okay, well, then they
also have been exposed to porn, they watch
porn, they're addicted to porn, whatever
you wanna say.
What's, what are they doing about it? In
other words-
-Mm
-... there's a difference between someone
says, "I struggle," and then, but the most
people, what they really mean is, "I'm,
I'm just given over to it."
So
I think it's fine that people have,
like, it's not fine, but it's just, it's
normative that you're gonna meet people
that have struggled.
It, it's literally everywhere. It's, it's,
there's no guy that's not being exposed
to it on a regular basis. Now, the
question is how much
are they fighting it and, you know, you,
you get my point. So I think for women,
the big challenge is
pornography is not about
merely lust.
It's often about power and idolatry, and
so it's something that people take comfort
in, and they just f- falter through.
There's, it's just, it is lust, it is
this, but when you listen to the people
that really get stuck in it, it's just the
place they escape to. It's a terrible,
terrible thing. So I just think that if
you're a person, if you're a man that
wants to lead in your home,
one of the fruits of the spirit is
self-control.
Well,
you know,
pornography is something you're gonna
encounter. It's something that
people are gonna struggle with, but it
shouldn't be something that you're given
over to. And so I think if you say, "Hey,
they've seen porn before,"
-great. What do they do about it?
-Mm-hmm.
Well, they're smart now. They don't do
that. Okay, great. I think that's probably
a mature person. But if they say, "Oh,
well, they, they watch porn every
Wednesday," I'm like, "Okay, that pro-
well, that's probably a problem." It's
just like
don't be drunk with wine, but be filled.
Don't be controlled by... But that, that's
not saying porn's okay either.
Pornography is terrible. It's a terrible,
heinous sin.
Um, but it's a sin that people ought to be
fighting and putting to death. And I
think if you meet someone, that's like
saying, "Well, what if you meet a girl and
-she gossips?"
-Mm-hmm.
Well, okay, but she's gossiping all the
time. Like, she should recognize it. Like,
we, everyone's in process. You are going
to meet a person that is a sinner,
and so the question is, is the person
practicing their sin?
Remember he says, "No one that practices
sin." And practicing means they plan their
life around it. Are they working to do it
all the time? Well, that's not a good
person you should be with. That's, I
think, a deal breaker, is the practice of
sin. Um, but the, uh, the fighting of sin,
yeah. If you meet someone that's fighting
sin, I think that's someone that's
probably fine. That's, that's my, without
knowing the details of the circumstance.
But y- I'd be s- sometimes I'll hear a
story, and I'm, like, kinda shocked, like,
what's really going on. So
the fruit of someone's life, there should
be self-control as a fruit of that, and it
doesn't mean that there's never moments
they don't fail.
Uh, but they should be fighting sin,
pursuing the Lord, and so.
Is, is online dating wise for Christians?
Um,
sure. I actually don't think that, I
don't,
I don't know why everyone's upset with
online. I think online dating's like
arranged marriage. You're just doing it
yourself. I think the way-
-[laughs]
-... most of it's being arranged is based
on terrible ideas. So I think the whole,
like, swipe right, you're gonna find a
spouse, let's be real with yourself.
Um,
I think un- unfortunately,
most of the dating sites have been bought
up by certain sites to make them,
like, like, there's an incentive in every
dating site for you not to meet a spouse,
because if you're paying a membership fee,
the moment you meet a spouse, you're gonna
no longer pay a membership fee. I think
just cynically speaking, there's an
incentive structure for you to never meet
a spouse on that site. But you can, and so
I don't know. I just, I think it sounds
exhausting, and I think that, but I know a
lot of people have met online, so amen.
Go for it. I, I don't know. I just, if, if
you wanna do that, great. If you're in a
position where you just don't get to meet
a lot of people, then that's, that's
great. Right? I don't see a problem with
it. But just, like, it's easier sometimes
-to put up boundaries, and-
-Mm-hmm
... it seems exhausting because you're
gonna go through a lot of meetups, and I
-don't know.
-Uh, doctrinal, doctrinal differences.
-Yeah.
-Uh, doc- I like the, I'll do the
alliteration.
-Deal-breaking doctrinal differences.
-That's a good-
-[laughs]
-That's a good, yeah.
Uh, yeah. What c- you know, some of the
questions, can a Baptist marry a
Presbyterian? Can a Pro- Protestant marry
a Catholic? I know what you'll say to
that. Uh, but yeah, what, where do you
draw a hierarchical line? Can a five-point
Calvinist date a four-point Calvinist?
What are the, what are the deal breakers?
What are the, you know, this is
acceptable? Is it per relationship? How do
-you-
-I think it's a great question. I think in
the dating moment, once you're married,
you're married. So if you're married to
someone, you're married to them. And so
the que- the separate question under
marriage is what do you do if your spouse
is a different, has a different, like,
doctrinal view than you? How do you submit
to your spouse? And y- you know, your
Christ comes first, but, you know, you
still are gonna... Okay. But in a dating
relationship, you're still getting to
decide. You're still on the, the docket
trying to figure out what you think about
this person. And doctrinally speaking, I
would say, obviously, you wanna have, uh-
Be with someone that has a, a fundamental
understanding of salvation. I think an
easier way than talking about doctrine
is recognizing that most people, you don't
have to meet someone, like let's say you
meet a guy, and I don't know, he's like a
baseball guy, and he likes to hang out
with the boys, but he loves Jesus, goes to
church, he studies the Bible, but he's
not like a scholar. It's not... You don't
give, need to give the guy a doctrinal
test, you know? But you want someone
that's pursuing the Lord. And so I think a
better question is more about maturity.
So i- if you're with someone that is kind
of on fire for the Lord, but they don't
know a lot,
what you're, what you wanna look at in
that situation is their epistemology.
Like, how are they making decisions? In
other words,
they're really on fire for God, but
they're watching Joyce Meyers and like
getting excited. Like, okay, there's a
little bit, but they're... Let me be
careful. There's a bit of like naivete.
Like, when someone's new, they don't know
better. So
you're kind of watching someone's growing
up a little bit in their faith. That's
probably not someone that you know much
about yet what kind of spiritual leader
they'll be. But you know what's exciting?
That's a race horse
in terms of like their faith, at least
right now. You know what I mean? So you
kinda wanna see how that turns out.
Um, but when s- people have more of a
settled conviction, you gotta remember a
lot of people's settled convictions come
from their family or how they grew up or
this and that.
If you have a conviction and it matters to
you, then it matters when you're dating,
period. No matter how small it is. Now,
that doesn't mean you can only date people
from your church,
um, but it means that it's not so much
about what you could and ought to and
should do. It's if you care enough where
it matters to you, well, then it matters.
And so I think that's the answer. Now,
there's certain things where you're like,
"Well, I'm willing to..." Where I've met,
I've, I've had couples where, let's say
the guy, he's at our church, and he meets
a girl who's not really sure what they
think about,
uh, Calvinism, or maybe they're like kind
of a little bit not sure what they think
about some other o- doctrinal points, but
they're coming to church with them, and
they're like happy to listen, and they're
willing to come.
Uh, they're like, "Should I break up with
him?" And put them like, "S- slow down.
Give people time. Like, they're, she's
coming with you to church. See what
happens." Like,
I guess it's, it's a lot less like cut and
dry, if that makes sense.
-It does.
-Like, people are in process and so-
Yeah.
-Appreciate your-
-Bring them to church
... appreciate your time, Matt. Invite
them to church. Invite them to Barabbas
-Road Church.
-Yes, please do.
-Barabbas.com.
-I'll talk to them.
Come listen to some sermons. Uh, we'll do
a 2 point on, 2.0 on this. I have a lot
more questions, such as what red flags
should Christians watch for-
-Ooh
-... while dating.
-Gosh, this is a fun one.
-Sh- should parents have a say in who I
-date? How important is family approval?
-Ooh.
Should we get premarital counseling before
engagement? What questions sh-
-Let's do that next week
-... what questions should we ask before
marriage? How do we know if we're
compatible? Is it-
-Hey, stop. You're giving it away.
-Yes.
-I wanna, let's do that next week.
-I like that. Should a couple say I love
-you before engagement?
-Ooh, I wanna watch that one.
You wanna g- well, we'll go back to back
dating. That's how, that's how big dating
-is nowadays.
-Yeah.
-We'll see.
-Let's do it.
The last time we did a back to back Q&A,
people hated the second one.
-I don't care.
-I'm just kidding. I don't care about them
-either. [laughs]
-Well, I care about people, but
-just, uh-
-[laughs]
... I think it's a good subject, and I
think we have-
-Yeah
-... we, we could do as many parts as we
-want.
-We could.
-This is our show.
-This is, yes, exactly.
-Shh.
-Yeah. We'll, we'll talk about water
-bottles for a whole episode.
-Yeah.
And I'll make Jim Healy listen to every
word of it.
Anyways, I just think that at the end of
the day, what's, what's the ma- the lesson
from today? If you're, you need to pursue
the Lord, period. And once that's in
place,
you'll notice there's other people walking
next to you.
-Amen.
-You know what I mean?
-Yeah.
-That's, that's the whole game.
-Yeah.
-So.
Praise the Lord.
Uh, if you have questions, go to
alottofwordspodcast.com
-and click on the ask a question button.
-My book, it's gone.
-It's gone.
-You know my book's not here?
-It's not here. Uh-
-Come on
... buy Matt's book. It's on there.
This will release on Monday, so if you
have dating questions on,
that you wanna ask us, submit them Monday,
and I'll actually be able to get them on
-the podcast.
-I think it's a good idea.
-Yeah.
-Okay.
We'll do Dating 2.0 next week. We'll see
you then.
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