End of a Species

In this episode of End of a Species, Jeff has a chat with Super Solid about Bulverism, a logical fallacy where someone decides to showcase their mind reading skills. We go over how this fallacy rears its ugly head in the debate world and what it says about the person that uses it.

Creators & Guests

Host
Jeff Rufino
Jeff is the founder of End of a Species, and a snarky philosopher
Host
Super Solid

What is End of a Species?

Join us on a unique journey where news, culture, and history collide with humor and critical thinking in “End of a Species.” We blend philosophy and logic with a dash of comedy to help you see the world in a new light. Whether you’re a curious mind, a philosophy enthusiast, or just someone who loves a good laugh, our podcast offers thought-provoking discussions and plenty of laughs. Tune in for a fun and enlightening adventure that will not only make you think but also keep you entertained. Let’s explore the truth together!

Jeff:

What up, Super Solid?

Super Solid:

Yo.

Jeff:

Yo. That's so funny. So it's on your live the other day. Right? Oh, I can't see you, but it's on your live the other day.

Jeff:

And just the the quoting of MLK, hilarious. Hilarious. Should we just play

Super Solid:

it? Yeah. I think we should play it.

Jeff:

Yeah. That's man. Man, listen.

Shaun:

Alright. Prove it. Apologize for what you said about MLK.

Kedunkachud:

What I wait. I have to apologize for saying that we should judge we should judge people based on character?

Shaun:

What did he say before that?

Kedunkachud:

I I don't remember the exact What

Shaun:

did he say directly after that?

Kedunkachud:

Dream?

Shaun:

What did

Shaun:

he say 2 weeks after? Dream? Oh my god.

Super Solid:

What Martha the king said, judge people based on the content of their character and not the color of their skin. What do you say directly before that? I have no idea. What did you say directly out of that? Dream?

Jeff:

Yo. That's that's too funny.

Super Solid:

The first part is, like, why would you quote the man without knowing any like Nothing. Without knowing where the quote came from, without, like, knowing any of the speech. Because later on, didn't we ask him what the name of the speech was? And he couldn't remember? Or is that today?

Jeff:

Yeah. No. Well, I don't I don't know. I don't remember. After dream that took me out.

Jeff:

Yeah. It completely took me out. I didn't know what to say. I was like, I was like out of it. So, but to use a quote like that, just to, like, prove a point, but not know the whole end.

Jeff:

Look, just so you know, for anybody listening, the point of the conversation was to take accountability for racism. And Du said, I'm a

Kedunkachud:

just quote MLK and not know what he actually said, and then just quote him and say, dream?

Jeff:

Right. That's too much. That's that's too much. I was laughing for the rest of the day after that. And I know you could

Super Solid:

I couldn't help it. So that was New Year's Eve. Right? I went out with some some fellas from work.

Kedunkachud:

Mhmm.

Super Solid:

On the way there, I was listening to that live. I was listening to that portion of the live on repeat because because I I honestly, Jeff, I'm not gonna hold you, man. I'm so tired of people intuiting, refutations to to, like, racism. It's like they vehemently disagree with the existence of racism, with the severity of racism, and they do so without having any knowledge base in racism at all. Right?

Super Solid:

They have no idea what they're talking about. They haven't studied it at all, but they just know that they're smarter than you on this subject.

Jeff:

And I think I think for me, it's for any subject that's annoying, but specifically for race, like when you enter in the conversation and the first thing out of your mouth is I'm right. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what it is. I'm looking at a thing and I just wanna be right.

Kedunkachud:

But

Super Solid:

just wanna be right.

Jeff:

But no matter what you show me, I'm still gonna I'm still gonna, like, go against the tide of facts and just go, like, I'm right anyway.

Super Solid:

It's irritating to no end. And I think the the worst part of it is the, like, off bat, the assumption that you're wrong. Right?

Kedunkachud:

And

Super Solid:

then the immediate, like, you're wrong and here's why. Well, Slim, you you haven't you haven't proven me wrong.

Jeff:

Yeah. You haven't you haven't done the work.

Super Solid:

Yeah. Yeah. Show me your work. Because why are we already on to, you know, me being indoctrinated or making excuses or being a victim, when when you you're like, right? Like, you're wrong about me being wrong.

Super Solid:

We gotta figure out what reality is first before we can just go. Right? And that's that's one of the most annoying things.

Jeff:

This is a good segue. So I wanna say for anybody listening, welcome to, the the new end of the species podcast. I'm Jeff, and I'm here with Super Solid, my brother in arms. And today, we're gonna talk about, we're we're talking about bulvarism and and the example of how people use it, why it's a fallacy, why it's annoying, all of those things. Like, all of

Super Solid:

why it makes me wanna pull my eyelashes out.

Jeff:

Yeah. All everything.

Super Solid:

Yeah.

Jeff:

And if you know me, if you know Solid, you'll see us usually, as we're divesting from TikTok, but you'll see us usually on a TikTok live doing debates. And, look, I'm not gonna lie to you. When we have debate topics, I think about debate topics a lot. Like, when I'm not on a live and I'm doing something else, I'm thinking through stuff. I'm writing.

Jeff:

I'm taking notes. I'm writing out arguments, because I really just wanna know. Right? I find it interesting. And then I go into a conversation, and after having done all of this prework and go through, like, a Socratic questioning or laying out an argument to hear someone go, you just want free shit.

Super Solid:

To to hear somebody say, that's how it's always been. That's just how it works. Mhmm.

Jeff:

It it's as if, like I'm I'm look. My my my number one mission this year happy new year, everybody. But my number one mission this year is to normalize certain in group, out group dynamics that I think make sense. Academia is one of these in group, out group dynamics that make sense. And to that end, I'm going to continue this drumbeat.

Jeff:

You're gonna get tired of me saying it, and I'm gonna keep saying Bob in row 6 until people listen to me and understand that I'm dead ass serious when I say that. Like when I say Bob and Rose

Super Solid:

6 Bob and Rose 6.

Jeff:

So the concept of Bob and Rose 6 is this is like I it's in my head, the way it, the way it shaped out was you watch late night and you watch like Fallon or or Kimmel or Colbert, and they're always interviewing. Like, you don't get on that show unless you either have something to say, like you're an up and coming comedian or you're like somebody of note that just did something or you're an actor and you're you're trying to promote a movie or or a singer. You got an album or something like that. But you're not, like, there just to shoot the shit. That's not what you're what you're doing when you're when you're doing this.

Super Solid:

You're there with a purpose.

Jeff:

And so I thought to myself when I'm when I'm talking to these people on these lives, and I said, what if instead of, like, hey, the new Deadpool movie's out, and we were gonna interview Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman, but nah, forget that. I just told him to go back home. I want to interview Bob and row 6. Hey, Bob and row 6, come on down and tell us about how you went to, like, the grocery store today, and you picked out

Super Solid:

a trip to the deli.

Jeff:

Yeah. How they had just the right amount of roast beef in your sandwich today, player. It was Tell us

Super Solid:

folded it over real nice.

Jeff:

Tell us about how you're on there. Tell us about how you looked at a Facebook meme, and now you know everything there is to know about, socialism. Thank you. That's that's what we need. Right?

Jeff:

And I feel when when, when there's a an asymmetrical effort put into a conversation, that's where that's where a lot of the frustration comes in because, like, you're talking to somebody who didn't think of this stuff. And if they were honest about them not thinking about it and say, hey. You know what? I never I never thought about that. Let me let me come back.

Jeff:

Let me read. Let me do this. Let me do that. But, no, that's not what they do. We get no.

Jeff:

No. They dig

Super Solid:

in. They dig their heels in, and it's personal attack time.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

And I call like, you actually pointed out the term bulvarism to me, and I had never heard of it. So I was happy to learn it.

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

Which, by the way, don't do that with no ops. Don't point out no new info to them. I know what it is.

Super Solid:

Yeah. You tell a Kentucky about something new. They're an expert.

Jeff:

I know what it is. What is it? I'm not tell I'm not playing your game.

Super Solid:

I'm not playing your mind games.

Jeff:

This is this is a quiz show or what?

Super Solid:

I know what it is. What is it? I'm not I don't have to answer your question. Go look it up.

Jeff:

Go do your own research.

Super Solid:

I don't think you know what it is.

Jeff:

But when it but when when when I'm having a conversation and I lay out a thing and somebody just says, do I call it the mind reading fallacy? Somebody goes, you just don't like thing x. You just you just lazy, and you don't wanna do nothing under this thing. And I go, oh, so you went into my mind. Right?

Jeff:

You you scooped out part of my thoughts and you read them out loud. So you a mind reader. That's awesome. I love that. You may have seen me sometimes.

Jeff:

Like, I'll I'll I'll write 8 digits. Like, I actually do it every time. I write 8 random digits into my notes app, and I'm like, tell me what what 8 digits are in my notes app since you know what I'm thinking.

Super Solid:

Can I ask you a question about that? Yeah. How many times have have they has anyone ever been really close and then and and you were, like, a little scared, like, a little uh-oh?

Jeff:

Nah. Solid. Nobody's ever even tried it.

Super Solid:

Of course not. Because they know better. Right?

Jeff:

They haven't even made an attempt at a guess. Not even close. And, like, I know I'm being snarky when I do it. I'm I'm 100% being a jerk. Mhmm.

Jeff:

But at the same time, like, it happened today. It happened today on on your on your joint, like, where you were talking where we were talking to the one dude about the the reparations thing. And we're just having a thought experiment. And he goes, you're up here. After we have the whole conversation, we get to the part where it's like, okay, your thing don't make sense.

Jeff:

You just begging for free money. What?

Super Solid:

What do you mean I'm begging for free money? It's a thought experiment. To be to like, to for context y'all, sometimes I do a live that poses a hypothetical or the hypothetical. If and that if is doing so much heavy lifting, if reparations were to end racism, if me and I I cannot stress this enough. If means under to get like, under the conditions.

Super Solid:

Right? If under the conditions that racism or excuse me, that, reparations ended racism, would you then support reparations? And the reason why I came up with that is because it's kind of a double bind for bigots.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Super Solid:

Because they have to choose between supporting black people and supporting black people, and they don't wanna do either one of them. It's like, wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Jeff:

It's the ultimate trolley problem. On one end, you're saving a black person. On the other end, you're saving a black per which do you pull?

Super Solid:

Right. Which which one do you oh, no. And so so it's it, that's the reason why I came up with it. But, and the reason why, like, I came across the idea of Bolvarism in the first place was because of that exact dynamic. Right?

Super Solid:

Just the sheer inability of, like, white people to be to, like, participate in any meaningful way in conversations about race and racism.

Jeff:

Mhmm.

Super Solid:

Right? But I had no idea, Jeff. Jeff, I had no idea.

Kedunkachud:

Like, I had no idea that

Super Solid:

it would be that difficult for them.

Jeff:

That we get to that level.

Super Solid:

Yeah. I didn't I didn't pick up on the fact like, it it Jeff, how long we've been doing this? We like, you and I known each other for at least a year. Right?

Jeff:

A little yeah. A year or more. Yeah.

Super Solid:

Okay. So I remember sitting in a Walmart parking lot when we did the the pterodactyl fallacy. Kitchen razor. Mhmm. Right?

Super Solid:

Even then people were using these genetic fallacies. You know, basically, just saying because this idea comes from this source, the idea must be wrong. Right?

Jeff:

Mhmm.

Super Solid:

But I never picked up on how that that, ad hominem is assumed. Right? Like, the assumption of wrongness is there and they never talk about it, and then they they immediately skip past it and go on to the to the follow-up. Yeah. And so I think on some level, maybe on a visceral level, I'm saying, like, okay.

Super Solid:

He is just assuming I'm wrong. But instead of debating against that and saying, hey. No. Come back and prove me wrong. I end up getting in the weeds about, the assumptions they're making themselves or the ad hominem itself.

Super Solid:

Right?

Jeff:

Mhmm.

Super Solid:

Let me ask you the like, are you like me? Have you have you been able to unsee bulvarism?

Jeff:

No. I actually I actually told you that you shallow held me with that because normally normally when it like, when I see that kind of stuff and you know where I see it the most is something that we don't talk about is when you're presenting a source and somebody goes, hey. Where did you what source are you using? And you're like, the, the, associated press. That's a liberal blah blah blah blah blah.

Super Solid:

Somebody told me the other day that the FBI was liberal.

Jeff:

Yeah. Come on. So so, you know, we're using FBI dot gov. Those liberals, those lefty lefties, they they killed all them people on suspicion to be a Marxist, but they're super lefty. You didn't know that?

Jeff:

Come on now.

Super Solid:

The the notoriously liberal Federal Bureau of Investigation. You mean the people that weren't, allowed to investigate sex crimes in the in

Kedunkachud:

the eighties?

Super Solid:

Those guys? You mean the people who sent, death threats to to Martin Luther King? Those that FBI? Okay.

Jeff:

Alright. Super leftist. 100%.

Super Solid:

Oh, yeah. Straight commies.

Jeff:

But when but now I see it over and over and over, like, especially with men dealing with women. Like, they'll go up. This is this is why you ain't got a man. You just somebody Yeah. Somebody divorced you and asked what.

Jeff:

And it's like, yo, could you just, like, address

Super Solid:

Could you just address the argument, please? Right. Who'd be wrong before you start talking about why I'm wrong?

Jeff:

Yeah. Like, show like, I see conversations about, like, the gender the the the gender pay gap, and a source will pop out, and another source will pop out, and then another source will pop out to where where now we're sea lining. Now we're just, like, asking for, like, you wanna pull every paycheck in the world and compare it to every other paycheck in the world 1 by 1 as opposed to just looking at the studies. And then it's this is why y'all wanna have abortions because you wanna like, what? Time out.

Jeff:

Wait. Rewind. Where did that come from?

Super Solid:

How did we get to abortions?

Jeff:

Like, like we were just, we were just chilling on sources. And now you assuming there's a whole group of women's motivation for talking about it's not that they wanna work and get like the equal wage. And even that may not even be true. Like they could all be independently wealthy and they just, they just want information about a thing, which is perfectly fine. Right?

Jeff:

I'm curious about a bunch of shit that got nothing to do with me. Right? And and in that case, my motivation is just I'm curious and nosy, and I wanna know shit. That's it.

Kedunkachud:

Right.

Jeff:

But then I get into the conversation, and the minute it gets a little uncomfortable, you just want abortion. Like, what the like, get out

Super Solid:

of here. Going on?

Jeff:

I do not understand it. I don't know. Like, there was a a a dude I should look him up. He he's, it's his daughter's TikTok account, but he used to be a spy for, like, the CIA or the NSA or something. He used to do spy work.

Jeff:

And she asked him, what is it that's gonna cause the fall of society? And my man says sophistry. And Boverism is a form of sophistry. It really is. It's a form of, like, I don't want to engage the argument directly.

Jeff:

So instead, I'm just gonna say the person thinks that way because and it's just you know, to me, it's just one of, like, what

Super Solid:

poetic.

Jeff:

It it's one of, like, a 1000 lazy habits that people that get into these debates have. And, sure, we could talk about the people on TikTok. They're just like, and they don't know what they're doing. But this happens in congress. It happens on the 24 hour news cycle.

Jeff:

This should be happening on the street. Like, whenever, like and look, audience, you're not going to be able to unsee this now. When you go and and thank thank goodness we're doing this recording after the holidays. Because if I would if this was October and we were saying this shit, and then you go to Thanksgiving dinner, you you're saying you in your twenties, and you only saying that because you haven't lived yet.

Super Solid:

You ain't lived yet.

Jeff:

Yeah. Then you're like, oh, no. Listen to this. Listen listen to this, episode. You're doing.

Jeff:

Can you address the argument? We would be ruining so many thanksgiving and Christmas dinners.

Super Solid:

Listen. We might still for years to come. Let's hope. Let's one can only hope that we ruin your thanksgiving. You know?

Jeff:

Yeah. Absolutely. Or or encourage people to stop talking about certain things at the Thanksgiving table.

Super Solid:

So what is the remedy? Like, what how do we remedy, though?

Jeff:

Oh, that's, I was about to say that's easy, but that's so dismissive. Don't do that, Jeff. There are a couple yes. It's not actually easy because it's it's a habit that you have to have. I think one of the one of the biggest effects that has that makes it effective is that it talks to your ego.

Jeff:

Right? Like so for example, me, I'm an atheist. I don't every now and again, I'll engage in the in atheism debates. And when you and you'll find somebody who doesn't wanna talk about the thing that that you wanna talk about. And instead, they'll say, you're just afraid of this god, or you're just mad at this god.

Jeff:

And for someone who's like me, who I'm like, the fiction guy? No. There's a there's this thing in your in your stomach that you're like, did you just what'd you just say to me? And you wanna talk about that.

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

Like, the conversation part is over. You just wanna talk about that. When it's like when we talk about racism, somebody you just want free money, and you're sitting in a nice house, and you got a nice job. But mind you, typically, like, you look like us and you didn't just blue chip your way into that.

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

Like, I didn't just go, hey, my my my my dad and my dad's dad and my dad's dad's dad. Like, you you worked your ass off to get where you at. And now somebody's like, you just want free money. And you hear that? And you're like, wait a minute.

Super Solid:

It's a rap. It's a rap. That's all I'm a be able to talk about. Mhmm.

Jeff:

Like, what was what was I saying about the 19 fifties and Jim Crow? Nah. Right. You're not talking about that no more. We talk about my house.

Jeff:

Right? And I've fallen for it.

Super Solid:

Right. Oh, yeah.

Jeff:

Me too. We all have. But I think the best way to handle that and I think I'm I'm actually glad you brought it up. The best way to handle that is to just sidestep it. Accept it.

Jeff:

Just be like, yeah. You're right. But that doesn't change this argument.

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

Like, cool. Cool. Fine. I want free money. But and you know what?

Jeff:

You might

Super Solid:

have to do if we just say prove me if we just repeat it, prove me wrong over and over again with that.

Jeff:

You know, that can be a like, okay. That can be effective. And I've seen some people do this, and it works where, like, let's say I ask you a question. The other day, I had somebody and, you know, I I I follow in your footsteps sometimes with these with these topics because I like I like the ones that that put in a put in a point. And so I have a this topic that goes, all migrants are pro American.

Super Solid:

Mhmm.

Jeff:

And it piques the interest. But the and and, you know, the exercise here is somebody's gonna say something negative about migrants, and I'm gonna say, well, that's just following in the great American tradition of of thing that they did. Right? And so, like, you know, saying that is is great. Cool.

Jeff:

But I'm not being lazy about it. I'm still gonna follow in the in the full dialectic to its conclusion. And so I had a guy who was talking about people coming here illegally. And so we got to the point where I'm asking him, are treaties legal?

Super Solid:

Right. Are treaties yeah. Treaty laws. Yeah.

Jeff:

And he don't wanna say yes.

Super Solid:

Of course.

Jeff:

He wants to he wants to hem and haw. Like, come on. It's a treaty. You know a treaty is legal. Like, that's a law.

Jeff:

If it's not, then what the hell are we signing it for?

Super Solid:

Yeah.

Jeff:

So what

Super Solid:

At the very least, it should be legal legally binding. Right?

Jeff:

Yeah. So every time he didn't answer the question, I just said, I'm just gonna keep asking until you until you answer my question. And we went for a full 10 minutes of me. Are treaties legal? Well, there's alright.

Jeff:

No. No. That's cool. Our treaties legal, though. So in your case, where it's like prove me wrong, prove me wrong, like, you get into this feedback loop where you're you're basically telling the person until you engage, you're just gonna hear the same thing over and over again.

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

So that that can be

Super Solid:

a Wait. Hold on. He went a full 10 minutes without crashing out?

Jeff:

This particular I'm gonna show you the clip later on. And this particular dude, he wasn't gonna crash out. Like, the the crash out he was gonna do with slurs. Right?

Super Solid:

Oh, wow. Yeah.

Jeff:

That's the crash out that he was gonna, he wasn't gonna start screaming and yelling. He, it, it took a long, I mean, credit to him with, you know, I'm, I'm not a I'm I'm pretty in your face with it when when I see somebody in my side. So credit to him. He did he took it like a champ, but he still wasn't engaging. And that's the part where you start getting into these things where I'm just gonna keep asking you the question until you engage.

Jeff:

All that other stuff you're doing is just delaying the inevitable because we're on my part. Yeah. But the the the other thing I encourage people to do and I like to do is start with, specifically, what is the point of that work? What's the point that we're disagreeing about? Because if you clean that up, everything around that is nice for, like and, like, that WWE entertaining where where where we're joking with each other stuff.

Jeff:

Yeah. But if I'm saying to you, like, you know, there's some moral question that we wanna answer. Right? So that would be, like, for an abortion conversation or or something about xenophobia and how it moves in society, and we're talking about immigration. There's going to be a point where somebody's making a claim.

Jeff:

What and if it's me, then I'm focused on that claim. That's all I wanna know about is the specific claim I just made and how it relates to the argument. And how can I foundationally, like, say, okay, this claim is this? But if that's not like, if you're distracting from that, the north star that I have is always gonna be, what are we talking about? And if we shift it from that, let's just bring it back.

Jeff:

Right? Right.

Super Solid:

What's what's on the background? AKA, what are the words that I have put here specifically for us to look at so that we remember what the topic is in the first place?

Jeff:

Exactly that. Exactly that. And you know what? Sometimes when you really, like, start going down a rabbit hole, when you come back to the topic, I'll even say to some people, like, look. You went you did all of that, and we didn't get no, we didn't get an inch closer to you proving that the thing that you wanted to say.

Super Solid:

Exactly.

Jeff:

Not, not, not like we didn't take a step in that direction. We're, we're talking about this other thing now Mhmm. And we could have been talking about the thing you wanted to say, and that's crazy to me that we not. Like, how do we get to that point? Yeah.

Jeff:

You know? So What are the most,

Super Solid:

frustrating things about debating Bob and row 6, I think, in the world is all the wasted time.

Jeff:

Yeah. Yeah. There's layers of it, though. Because alright. If I'm talking to you and then somebody's on deck.

Jeff:

Right? And you're making an argument about whatever. The person that comes in generally, typically speaking, the next person that comes that that is gonna have a conversation, I I like them to start from the beginning of their the whatever argument they're gonna make. I don't like to staple. I I call it stapling the last person's argument to your forehead.

Jeff:

I don't like doing that because there's going to there are gonna be parts of it that people are gonna miss. But if you've been sitting there waiting, and we and I just like, I've seen you give people a class on what is the history and the material analysis

Kedunkachud:

Right.

Jeff:

Of the last 100 years of race in this country. Then the next person starts off like they've they they didn't hit none of that. They their their their joint was on mute for that whole time, and we gotta start over.

Super Solid:

Mhmm. When I know they've been watching. That's the worst part.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Super Solid:

I just thought I was been sitting here looking at you watching, so I didn't even hear what I explained.

Jeff:

Because they write a comment like that person's point didn't make no sense. Oh, you you heard that point.

Super Solid:

So you heard that? You you listening. Right.

Jeff:

Why are we starting over?

Super Solid:

Why are we starting from scratch? Yeah.

Jeff:

I've seen some of our mutuals. Like, I don't like talking about politicians after an election because the thing is done. But people still talk, like, hey. Why did you vote for this person? Why did you vote for that person?

Jeff:

Mhmm. I've seen some of our mutuals have 5 conversations in a row. And in all of the conversations, they have to start off by explaining what a tariff is. And I'm gonna tell you this. This is the unspoken thing about tariffs.

Jeff:

I'm gonna say it, and I'm not gonna take it back. Tariffs are boring. Boring. I don't know that there's a thing in economics that you could talk about this more boring than a tariff. Like, it's boring for the

Super Solid:

Price ceilings? No. No. Mm-mm.

Jeff:

Because at least with price ceilings, you you get into a point where it's like, alright. Whew.

Super Solid:

No more gouging. Because there's an end to it. Right?

Jeff:

Yeah. But, like, when there's a tariff, it's it's boring to the person paying the tariff. It's boring to do the argument about the tariff. When you get to it, like a targeted tariff, everything else is speculation like, Hey, are they gonna bring jobs back? Everything about a tariff is boring.

Jeff:

Right. But there's nothing more boring than just explaining what a tariff is. Right. And having to do that 5 times in a row is outrageous to me. I don't know how somebody could do that and not become a supervillain that day.

Super Solid:

So then, like because there are times when I'll just say, hey. Listen. No. I talked about this with the last guy. We've we already talked about this.

Super Solid:

You know? Mhmm. Because let's say I'm I'm a I'm a college professor, and I'm sitting in the middle of my, you know, of my lesson. And then somebody bust in the classroom in the middle of the class. Excuse me.

Super Solid:

And says, sorry, I'm late. Won't you go over all the shit you just went over again? Right? My man's gonna say, get out. Mhmm.

Super Solid:

Why are you here? But for some reason, we'll start alive and and you know what I mean? For the brand new kid in the class or the guy that was late to the class, we'll repeat the same thing over and over again. Start from scratch. Start from scratch.

Super Solid:

Yeah. To exercise in futility. It's sisophisian.

Jeff:

And I'll tell you this. I will give somebody, like, the the opening premise. Like, when I do the when I talk about, like, the the immigrate, the the migrants are all migrants are pro American.

Super Solid:

Yeah.

Jeff:

There's a boilerplate sentence. I just say all migrants exhibit the culture, traditions, and values of the United States. Boom. So then we can you get you pick one of those and you pick at it, or you give me an argument based on whatever. But I don't wanna have to tell you, hey, what's culture?

Jeff:

What are values? What what is a tradition? If I have to do that every time, this is where the bob and row 6 of it comes in, is you have people who don't know this stuff, but they really wanna talk about it. And maybe you shouldn't. Maybe what you need to do

Super Solid:

Maybe you should not talk

Jeff:

about it. At least not in this forum. Right? If we're having a conversation where a lot of people are watching and there's people who wanna learn about this stuff and they want us maybe there are even people who are like, hey, I wanna get my argument stronger. But you wanna get your argument stronger against the strongest version of that argument.

Jeff:

You don't wanna get it stronger against, like, you know, somebody who doesn't know the basics. So it's a disservice even to to, like, an audience that's watching. Right. And it's a disservice to the person that's engaging in that conversation without knowing stuff because you're gonna look dumber than you are. Right?

Jeff:

Like, if I walked into like, I always use CERN as an example. But if I walked into CERN right now and I had a conversation about, you know, quantum particles of any kind, whoever's sitting in there is gonna walk circles around me. Yeah. I don't that's not what I do. I don't know anything about that.

Jeff:

Now is it possible that I could, like, buckle down and start studying and and probably not. Like, I'm probably not gonna be an expert in quantum physics anytime in my life. But, you know, maybe I'll pick up some things and not look dumb. I'll know about, like, hey. Maybe I shouldn't who I not to talk to.

Jeff:

But for people who don't know anything, and you give you give them the most basic question. What hey. Here's a callback. What did he say right after that?

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

And the answer is dream.

Super Solid:

Dream? I don't even think it's that complex because you went straight to CERN, and I do this too. I I I go to, like, these really complex professions when I try to do that analogy. It's not a good idea to argue with the cashier at books a million. You know what you know what I mean?

Super Solid:

About how to do their job.

Jeff:

Yeah. You

Super Solid:

know what I'm saying? If you've never worked at Books A Mill you if you've never worked at, you know, you don't have access to their inventories, to their system. You don't know what books are there, what books aren't there. Right? But you wanna steady tell them how to find the book, that you're looking for, that you can't find in the first place.

Jeff:

I don't think the staggered close is really the the most safe way to close your store.

Super Solid:

You see what I'm saying? What's your name again? Tell me. Right. Like, you you argue with people without having any knowledge base in what you arguing about in the first place is at at You want

Jeff:

to eat fries for 3 and a half minutes? Blood? The whole basket of fries?

Super Solid:

The whole thing? And a half minutes? You've gotta leave it in there for at least 20.

Jeff:

I could do it in 3.

Super Solid:

Oh oh, so you like soggy frozen? Oh, okay. No salt. What you put

Jeff:

salt on there for?

Super Solid:

And that's what a kadunkatrade really is. A kadunkatrade is really the epitome of Dunning Kruger. Yes. The a kadunkatrade is the manifestation of Dunning Kruger.

Jeff:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Super Solid:

Yes. That's what I'm saying. Chud. It's a kadunkajud.

Jeff:

Kadunkajud. Yeah. Super Dunning Kruger.

Super Solid:

Yeah. And cause it's like my confidence is going to make me right. You know,

Jeff:

and the bulbarism is just a coping or a defense mechanism for when you like, you have these shells up like, Hey, I got my confidence. I got my, my insults. I got my slurs. And when all of that is being pulled apart and you bought this like, Hey, mask is about to come off. The is the last thing.

Jeff:

Like, but you're just saying that because you because you just generally mad. You unhappy.

Super Solid:

Second last line of defense. The first line of defense is the n word.

Jeff:

Yeah. Mhmm.

Kedunkachud:

Or that that's the last one.

Jeff:

Yeah. The slurs is the is the is the very last peel of wall before you get into the city. Right? That's where

Super Solid:

you pull the you pull the, pull the rip cord. Oh, I really am though. So yeah. Really. That's what we gotta do it on a daily basis, man.

Jeff:

I'm excited about I'm excited about being on YouTube. I'm excited about being back in, in, like, podcast land.

Super Solid:

Yeah.

Jeff:

I I cannot I, like, I enjoy being on TikTok lives. I enjoy, like, having conversations. I don't know that the trade off, for me anyway, the trade off of having a conversation with the amount of and you said, like, wasted time, but just the bulk of wasted words, the waste that you it's almost like you're digging through a a a mountain of haystacks, and then you get 1 1 or 2 worthwhile needles where you're like, oh, this is this was super satisfying. Hey. We we made progress here.

Jeff:

Right?

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

And I don't and the further that that we you know, that the that that app goes, the more bills of hay are being added, and the more needles are being taken away. And I think for me, it's gotten to a point where I'm super excited about being on YouTube because on this platform right now, right, you and I are having this conversation. Right? We're going to get to a point where there are going to be others of our mutuals that are gonna join us here and have conversations. And there are topics that we that we're gonna get to talk about that we don't normally get to.

Jeff:

And we're we're going to be able to share information that we don't normally get to. But we're also going to be able to curate like, I wanna hear from dissenting voices. And not just, like, dissenting voices among, like, the people that I fully disagree with, but even amongst us. Like, we don't all agree on stuff, and there are going to be opportunities for us to debate things and not just political things. Right?

Jeff:

We're going to be able to do commentary on pop culture, on society, video games, like anything that it is that makes you move in a certain way.

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

I wanna be able to to talk about it. I wanna be able to speak to it. I wanna be able to, to have discourse around it and entertain people around it and joke around about it without the the specter of, having a people who don't know what they're talking about entering the conversation. Be an app that is perfectly okay allowing all the slurring and, and weird behavior while punishing what it perceives as some other stuff. Right?

Jeff:

Like, we we've all seen where somebody is on mute and they're on a panel, and all of a sudden, they disappear and we find out, hey. They got banned

Super Solid:

for a week.

Jeff:

Yeah. And they didn't say nothing.

Super Solid:

Yeah. And then on real time.

Kedunkachud:

Mhmm. And

Jeff:

then on top of

Kedunkachud:

all that

Super Solid:

I think it comes from, like, they might be in another space, and then they get reported there, and then TikTok just lags so hard that they don't get reported until they get to the Maybe. Space. But either way, you shouldn't have let that slide. Like, you you waited this long. Why why you know?

Super Solid:

But also, like, no Do

Jeff:

you know statute of limitations?

Super Solid:

Right. The will will come up, say the shit to you. They will come up on your in your space. The other day, the the the last banana I got, it was some good Dunkin' Chuds calling me the n word, telling me to do self harm to myself, and they got they got off scot free. But because they dropped down and then reported me for it without even vetting it at all, TikTok just said, we're we're gonna ban you.

Super Solid:

It's like, no. So let go after those people who actually said the thing.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Super Solid:

You know? If there's no there's there's no way around it. You know? Because TikTok has every resource available to refine the reporting process, give creators a way to kind of, you know, voice, you know, plead their case. And they just they haven't done it yet, which means they they don't care.

Super Solid:

They don't want to because they would have done it already. You know?

Jeff:

I I wanna here's something I wanna do before we we close out.

Super Solid:

Yeah.

Jeff:

And that is let me open up a new window here. I wanna talk about how you can support these efforts. I think that's important. And I'll call it shilling, but it's also you know, we're moving platforms. So we're going to be somewhere where we're not, like, getting tiny dineys or whatever.

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

And, you know, it is a hobby, but it's also labor. Right? So we wanna we wanna give everybody an opportunity to support. And I have this driving, like, philosophy that I've always felt weird about people just, I don't know, giving me some form form of monetary support for a an animation or for nothing. Right?

Jeff:

So, for starters, I wanna highlight the fact that you have merch, right, on your, on your website. And

Kedunkachud:

I Yeah.

Jeff:

And end of a species has merch that you can and and I think that's the to me, that's the best way to support the platform.

Super Solid:

Yeah. Absolutely. If you go to my website, 4 tpbuy solid.com, there's all types of merchandise on there. I got throw pillows. I got coffee mugs, prints, like canvas prints.

Super Solid:

I have, athleisure wear, hoodies. The people really go for the hoodies. I don't know what it it might be the season. Who knows? We'll see how it turns out in the summer.

Super Solid:

We'll see how people act in the summertime. But but the hoodies are, the people love the hoodies. They've been buying them up. So yeah. And that's for tpbuy solid dot com.

Super Solid:

It's one of the, my main sources of side revenue here. Oh, there we are there. Also, I got a link to the RSS feed for the pod. Right? Right now, that's absolutely free.

Kedunkachud:

Okay?

Super Solid:

Oh, see. You see there? Look at the the for your neighbor athleisure wear. Look at that. Mhmm.

Super Solid:

That's pretty. I like it.

Jeff:

And and you have, like, inclusive sizes.

Super Solid:

Yes. We are size inclusive. We're gender inclusive. You know, you can get you, if you scroll up oh, never mind. If you

Jeff:

Let me bring it up.

Super Solid:

There's a non Biscay hoodie. 1 of the one of my sign on tags and sign off tags is I'll say I'll talk to everybody. I'll say, hey, broskis, siskis, and non Biscis. And I think some of the non binary homies got a kick out of that, so I went ahead and made them a little non Biscay hoodie.

Jeff:

Non Biscay is I like that. I've actually never heard you say that, but I but I like that a lot.

Super Solid:

Yeah. You say you got your broskis, you got your siskeis, and you got your non biskeis. We got the black joy hoodie. That flannel that flannel, the looks are deceiving because once you look at the back of that flannel, it's a whole it's a whole thing. Right?

Jeff:

They're you know, that's that's that's what it is. Yeah. I like that. No. That that design is pretty cool.

Super Solid:

Yeah. It's what I mean, it's a it's a labor of love. I I grew up quite poor, and so I I wasn't really able to dress as well as I wanted to. So now it's just really important to me that, you know, I'm well dressed. I'm a large I'm a large guy, and so, I want I have trouble finding inclusive sizes, so I just tried to make sure that I had something that I felt like I would be okay wearing that also Mhmm.

Super Solid:

You could wear. And if you're differently sized, then all the better. You know?

Jeff:

Absolutely. And on the end of a species size, there's also merch.

Super Solid:

I'll take that. I'll look at

Jeff:

that. Like It's

Super Solid:

so it's so clean. Like, your your, like, the just the layout is so crisp. It's just really pleasant to look at.

Jeff:

Yeah. I didn't do it. I can't pay no credit for that. This is just how it how it, how it lined up. But I think if I had to highlight 1 right?

Jeff:

If I had to highlight 1, it would definitely be the, the intellect intellectual violence line. And that's strictly because, although the debating on YouTube is going to be less than it was. Right?

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

We are in a space now where the ideas are the violence. Right?

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

The ideas are the the revolution. So, it for me, intellectual violence is is a like, a term that I've wanted to normalize for a long time because it just shows that, hey, if you if your if your ideas are good and you're willing to defend them and you're willing to, like, articulate them in a specific way, then you're going to you're going to do well. Right? Yeah. And I would be remiss if I didn't also highlight debate Dexter, which by the way, that's the first shirt my wife got was the debate Dexter.

Super Solid:

And I'm sure the debate Dexter, please. Because that that thing I like all I like the marshmallow brain junk.

Jeff:

So, like, debate Dexter is also, like, part of the, I guess, tangential to, intellectual violence because

Super Solid:

Right.

Jeff:

You know, there there's the argument. And then just to to you you know, I don't I don't wanna focus on that because it's not what we were talking about here. But there are ways to handle kadunkajuds. Right? Yeah.

Jeff:

Without having you don't always have to be respectable, if you know what I mean.

Super Solid:

Not always. So, Jeff, I gotta tell you, the reason why I even started the online debating in the first place was because, a lot of the people that I thought were really cool turned out to be absolute kadunkajuds. And it was painful for me to, in a sense, lose them as I knew them.

Jeff:

Mhmm.

Super Solid:

And so I first wanted to learn, like, to, like, figure out how to talk to Kadunkajuds because I wanted them to stop being Kadunkajuds. Right? Then I figured out, oh, you have to get them before they actually become Kadunkajuds. You have to get people who don't wanna be Kadunkajuds. And those people are not the ones yelling at you and doing the bulverism.

Super Solid:

Those people are the ones in the audience.

Jeff:

Right?

Super Solid:

And that's the part of that, the the reason I bring that up is because I'm really thankful for the audience. Really am. I really am because I you could tell you could you can attest to it even today. I mean, they're super supportive. Mhmm.

Super Solid:

I think what you had some some big some big purchases today. I I got some orders today. Like, it's the our audience is probably the best audience, and I just wanna make sure that they're able to follow us to these new these new platforms. You know?

Jeff:

And and rock and rock the colors. Exactly. For me, the one thing I want is I want people to learn how to think. I want people to learn how to reason, and I want people to learn how to say like, learn that it's okay to to say I don't know and to be curious and to read and to get more information and to just think of the argument, and to try not to get distracted by, like, the the BS, like, when you're talking about something. Compartmentalize where you can, all of those things.

Jeff:

Absolutely. And I and I think part of it is my own like, the way my own brain works, like, the way I approach these things. But it's also, like, a driving force for me that I need I need for, for truth. I need the best way to get to truth. And I think the best way to get to truth involves taking an idea and getting to a conclusion the best way possible.

Jeff:

And that does not involve repressing information. That doesn't involve throwing in your own bias. Like, it there's so much to it, and it seems very complicated. But at the end of the day, it's very, very simple. Mhmm.

Jeff:

And so for me, that's why I started is because there's so many places where I think we can improve how we approach ideas and concepts. And instead of throwing our ego at it, we can throw just we can we can just approach it in a way that is conducive to getting to truth.

Super Solid:

Right. Absolutely.

Jeff:

Like, the w's don't matter. The l's don't matter. It's just the you know, just let's get to to truth somehow.

Super Solid:

Get to the truth. Yeah. Absolutely.

Jeff:

I appreciate y'all for listening today. We got to the end of this first episode of many, and, yeah, we'll see you guys next time.

Super Solid:

Hasta Luego.