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Hosts Spencer Horn and Christian Napier discuss a better way to build and strengthen teams in any organization.
Christian Napier
00:12 - 00:29
Well, hello everyone and happy new year. Welcome to another episode of Teamwork, A Better Way. I'm Christian Napier and I am joined by my focused, energetic, optimistic, looking forward to 2026 co-host, Spencer Horne. Spencer, how are you doing?
Spencer Horn
00:29 - 00:33
Good. I am so looking forward to 2026. It's going to be a fantastic year, isn't it?
Christian Napier
00:34 - 00:39
It is, it's gonna be a really, really good year. I got a good feeling about it.
Spencer Horn
00:39 - 00:55
Well, and see, today we're gonna learn how to seize that opportunity of making sure that it's a good year, which it starts off with our topic today. But anything fun you did for the New Year's holiday, Christian, that you were excited about?
Christian Napier
00:56 - 01:09
You know what, we had family in town. Our daughter and her husband stayed with us over the holidays, and we just had a lot of family time. And it was really enjoyable. At the same time, admittedly exhausting.
Christian Napier
01:10 - 01:22
When you're empty nesters, and you only cook for two people, and then all of a sudden you have a house full of people for two weeks, it's like, wow, that was a lot of work. But it was totally worth it. Really, really enjoyed having family around. How about you?
Spencer Horn
01:23 - 01:35
Same. It's so funny because it does take a lot of work, but we, we just got back from Las Vegas, Jan and I late last night. Uh, we went down to St. George over the weekend to watch grandkids in three granddaughters playing in tennis tournaments.
Spencer Horn
01:35 - 01:49
And, and, uh, and then yesterday we had a baby blessing our, our newest grandson in Las Vegas. So that, that, that comes to a number 10 and 11 is on the way. 2026 going to be a great year.
Christian Napier
01:49 - 01:55
Wow, well, you're way ahead of me. We had two last year. That was our first two grandchildren. We've got two more on the way this year.
Christian Napier
01:55 - 02:07
So I've got a ways to catch up. That's awesome. That's awesome. All right, well, let's get down to brass tacks here because we've got an amazing guest to kick off our new year.
Christian Napier
02:07 - 02:12
Super excited for you to introduce them, Spencer. Take it away.
Spencer Horn
02:12 - 02:31
Absolutely. Today we have Josh Koznik coming all the way from Wisconsin and you know, who knows a good friend of mine, Darcy Looma and Darcy, you know, has been on our show when she heard that Josh was going to come on. She was so excited, but. The topic today is teamwork in kairos time.
Spencer Horn
02:31 - 02:52
I don't know if I'm saying that right. I know it's a Greek god and we'll talk about that in just a second, but it's about unlocking peak performance through alignment and awareness. I just want to bring the definition before I read Josh's bio, definition, description of our show today. What if the best teams didn't just work together, they grew together?
Spencer Horn
02:52 - 03:15
Drawing on this EOS leadership background and the Kairos Code, Josh is going to explore how leaders can create these Kairos moments that we're talking about within their teams, pivotal points where awareness and accountability and action collide. So I am so excited about that. And let's share his bio so you understand where he's coming from. bridge builder, a leader that's forged through fire, guided by faith.
Spencer Horn
03:15 - 03:45
I love that little warrior ethos there. As the founder of Keros Coaching and an EOS implementer, he empowers individuals and organizations to align vision with execution, transforming struggles into stepping stones towards fulfillment. He's had first-hand experience really building and exiting three successful businesses. Josh brings a unique perspective and has created sustainable value and long-term impact.
Spencer Horn
03:46 - 04:04
He's worked with masterminds that he manages. mentors, other leaders. He inspires others to embrace their calling, overcome adversity, and build legacies rooted in authenticity, resilience, and generosity experience. So I'm so excited.
Spencer Horn
04:04 - 04:19
He's also passionate about men's health. He's passionate about personal growth, and he helps people transform. So Christian, we're going to start our year off right and hopefully getting a lot of information to get us rocking and rolling in 2026. Welcome, Josh.
Spencer Horn
04:19 - 04:20
We're so glad to have you.
Josh Kosnick
04:21 - 04:32
Thanks guys. Well, I got to say before we jump into this two things, it is pronounced Kairos, but we'll get into that in a little bit. Uh, but you guys got a fertile bunch over there. Grandkids popping out everywhere.
Josh Kosnick
04:32 - 04:36
This is a fun time of a fun season of life for you too.
Spencer Horn
04:37 - 04:49
Josh. So I have five children and yes, you know, fertile, I guess if you want to call that, but this will be in June this year, I'll have been married 40 years. Got married when I was 15.
Josh Kosnick
04:49 - 04:50
June, what's the date?
Spencer Horn
04:50 - 04:52
June 20th.
Josh Kosnick
04:53 - 04:58
Where June, my wife and I will be 18 years on June 21st.
Spencer Horn
04:58 - 05:04
Wow. Day after, congratulations. What a wonderful thing. Families are a wonderful thing.
Spencer Horn
05:04 - 05:15
To start us off, let's talk about this idea of Kairos. Those of you who are listening are not familiar with Greek mythology. There's actually three gods, Greek gods of time. Is that right?
Josh Kosnick
05:17 - 05:19
There is, and I can't even remember them all.
Spencer Horn
05:20 - 05:33
Kairos, which you'll describe, Kronos, and Aeon. So Kronos is, you know, chronological time, empirical time, past, present, future. Aeon is eternal time, so the afterlife. But the one that we're most interested in is Kairos time.
Spencer Horn
05:33 - 05:45
First of all, why Kairos time? Tell us this idea. Where did it come from and what is it and how do leaders recognize it when Kairos time opportunities present themselves?
Josh Kosnick
05:46 - 05:58
Really great question. So Kairos, I was first introduced to in 2021. I had just exited my business and it wasn't a happy exit. And we can get into some of that story if it makes sense to.
Josh Kosnick
05:58 - 06:14
But remember 2021, we were just still kind of in that COVID era. And we're attached to our Zoom screens. We're attached to kind of isolating ourselves from other community and other family members and all that stuff. It was a weird two year period.
Josh Kosnick
06:14 - 06:32
And I get introduced to this term of kairos when I was kind of in my pits of despair. And it was a fascinating term. So let me give the Greek definition to it. Kairos is a moment or era, a defining moment or era in one's life.
Josh Kosnick
06:32 - 06:47
And there's also a biblical definition to it, a divine moment when God acts. So I get introduced to this term and I'm like, man, we have been isolated. We have been put kind of in our own boxes. We're attached to these screens.
Josh Kosnick
06:48 - 07:19
And what a time. to actually reclaim our sovereignty, to reclaim who we are, and actually tap back into what God gave us, which is the beauty of nature, the beauty of community, and our families and friendships. And I decided to name my company that and have lived more in that time. Now, I want to make this other caveat because I think the most appropriate way to understand it right now is the zone or flow.
Josh Kosnick
07:19 - 07:40
Those are two popularized terms, whether it be in sports or business. And when you're in the zone or in flow, you have no concept of Kronos time. You're not counting the clock. Time slows down as a matter of fact, if you've ever been in the zone or flow, you're utterly immersed in the present.
Josh Kosnick
07:41 - 08:04
And I just thought, and I've continued to dive deeper into that, is we've probably all heard the terminology or phrase or motto, be where your feet are. Kairos takes that to another level when we can actually be so present that we have no concept of time. We're not thinking about what we're gonna say next. We're not thinking about the next thing we have to do.
Josh Kosnick
08:05 - 08:24
We're not thinking about another to do on our list, whatever it may be. We're just utterly present with our kids. We're utterly present in the conversation that we have. And we're just so focused on what's in front of our face instead of all the other to do's and demands on our schedule or our time.
Christian Napier
08:27 - 08:55
Well, there's a lot to unpack there, Josh. There's some really cool concepts there. One of the ones that kind of caught my attention, the idea of this Kairos being in the zone, being present, you use that sports analogy, it resonates with me. I've spent a lot of my career working in major sport events.
Christian Napier
08:55 - 09:35
One of the questions I have for you is when we see athletes in the zone, for example, It's not like they just wake up one morning and decide they're going to be in the zone. Musicians, similarly, I was reading an article the other day about musicians, when they're in that kind of flow state themselves, they're not counting. They're not counting bars, one, two, three, four. They just feel it, right?
Christian Napier
09:36 - 10:02
But to get there takes a lot of work for them, right? So I'm curious from your perspective, what do people have to do to get into that state? I mean, can you literally just wake up in the morning and say, okay, I'm gonna be in the zone today? Or do you have to do a lot of foundational work to get to that place where you feel like you are ever present that you're living in that moment?
Christian Napier
10:02 - 10:10
What kind of legwork do you have to do ahead of time to be able to feel like you're in that flow, or can it just happen?
Josh Kosnick
10:12 - 10:26
I think it can just happen. The problem is it's not going to be on purpose. Uh, and it's not going to happen nearly as often. So I've been blessed to have a couple of people on my podcast that work with NBA stars, drew Hanlon, David nurse.
Josh Kosnick
10:26 - 10:35
They work with some of the best of the best in the NBA. And I've asked them that question. I was like, Hey, um, how do we get in the zone more? And both of them answered very similarly.
Josh Kosnick
10:36 - 10:58
They're like, Josh, that's the billion dollar question. If I had the answer to that, then every high level athlete would work with me and we could solve a lot of the world's problems. So how do we actually get there? We have to be so, we have to work so hard on ourselves and be so authentically grounded in who we are first.
Josh Kosnick
10:59 - 11:17
to be that present in any moment. So I created the five bridges of Kairos from a season of loss. When I told you in 2021 that was not a happy exit, I was in my pits of despair. And I realized I had gone about some priorities really wrong in my life.
Josh Kosnick
11:17 - 11:51
And partly being, one being spiritually, I wasn't chasing God or a relationship with God as much as I was chasing my goals, the next promotion, the next accolade, whatever it may be. I wasn't pursuing my wife with the same passion that I was the next to-do, the next goal, the next win. And I wasn't spending as much time and attention on my kids as I was my calendar. And when I had that epiphany, I was like, man, I'd screwed a lot of things up priority wise.
Josh Kosnick
11:52 - 12:16
And again, from the outside looking in, I had everything that everyone ever wanted. And when it all came crashing down, I have this just grounding epiphany that I had screwed some things up. And so I went to work on creating these five bridges and what it actually takes to live in Cairo's time. So bridge one is being spiritually grounded.
Josh Kosnick
12:16 - 12:41
You may believe in God, you may not, but you need to understand that we are spiritual beings because I believe we've all been to a funeral, a wake, a visitation, seeing the body present and the spirit gone. So we got to know that we're spiritual beings at first and being grounded in that spirituality is bridge one for me. Bridge two is internal. meaning that we are mentally, emotionally, and physically strong.
Josh Kosnick
12:42 - 12:59
Very much like, well, Spencer, you said you were on a flight last night, I think, back from Vegas. Well, the flight attendants every time tell us, put our oxygen mask on first before assisting others. Reason being, if we're passed out or dead, we can't assist others. We're no use to anyone.
Josh Kosnick
13:00 - 13:30
So being emotionally, mentally, and physically strong is the way to actually show up the best for others, your family, your employees, your coworkers, or whoever else means or needs you in that timeframe. So getting those first two bridges right, start to build that bridge towards more Kairos moments. But the third one is just as important as those first two. It's having really strong relationships, particularly with the people that you love the most.
Josh Kosnick
13:31 - 13:58
I see way too many entrepreneurs, way too many high achievers sacrificing those that they love the most for people that won't even show up to their funeral. They won't even care if they get sick or a company that will replace them the next day if they were to die today. So relationships are the fruit of life and we have to have those really in priority. So God first, yourself second, your spouse if you have one, your kids if you have them, and then everyone else.
Josh Kosnick
14:00 - 14:14
Relationships is bridge three. Bridge four is the one we all like to skip to. I call it environment, but it's really your professional, your financial, and your creative. And most people forget about creative and joy, but let's focus on professional and financial for a minute.
Josh Kosnick
14:14 - 14:26
We all get told or asked the question when we're kids, what do you want to be when you grow up? And then it's reinforced in high school. What are you going to go to college for? And then it's reinforced in college.
Josh Kosnick
14:27 - 14:42
What are you going to do with that degree? And it's all circling around the what and not the who. And we are so much more than our positions, our titles, our money, our accolades. But we all identify or fall into the trap of identifying with what we do.
Josh Kosnick
14:43 - 14:59
And when we lose that identity, our whole world comes crashing down. And I know this because I've experienced it. And then bridge five, if we get the first four, right, is legacy. And the two things people get wrong about legacy all the time is they think it's 30 years from now.
Josh Kosnick
15:00 - 15:10
They're not going to die today, even though we know we're mortal. Unlike the, you know, Greek gods that we were talking about. We know we're mortal. We just don't think it's going to be today.
Josh Kosnick
15:10 - 15:21
We don't think it's going to be us. So therefore we think legacies sometime down the road. And then the second thing they get wrong is they think it's about things and what they leave behind. And that's not true either.
Josh Kosnick
15:22 - 15:39
So let me dispel both myths real quick. Legacy is what you leave in others, not what you leave behind. And you're building your legacy every single day. You're blessed to wake up through every action you take or inaction.
Josh Kosnick
15:39 - 16:04
action you don't take and every conversation of impact that you have with another human being. So therefore, if we build more conscientiousness or just cognizance of that fact, we can start to build more Kairos time by getting these five bridges in order and being cognizant that our legacy is built every single day and we got to have intention and purpose around how we want to leave an imprint on this world.
Spencer Horn
16:16 - 16:35
This is so important. Josh, I don't know if you're familiar with Harvard professor Clayton Christensen wrote one of my favorite books called How Will You Measure Your Life? But as he would bring in the MBA students into his programs, he's, you know, he's since passed, I don't know, what, three, four years, Christian?
Christian Napier
16:36 - 16:38
That's a while, yeah.
Spencer Horn
16:38 - 17:29
Yeah, when he would bring in these new cohorts of MBA students that were always looking forward to, you know, companies they were going to run and wealth that they were going to create and these machinations of, you know, of riches and his whole focus was, you know, my hope is exactly what you're talking about, that you will you will have a life that matters, that you will focus on family, that you will focus on relationships. And his idea of legacy, it lines perfectly with yours, and that is, he said, management is the greatest of all professions because it has the ability to impact more people for good than anything else. In other words, that's his whole thesis is that it's our responsibility to To leave a legacy, if you will, with those that we mentor and coach and teach.
Spencer Horn
17:29 - 17:56
And that's what I'm hearing that is your bridges to Kairos, and I absolutely love them. I, you know, how do we, how do we, somebody may be listening to this and say, well, that's great. But if, if entrepreneurs had, uh, you know, had the time, they would make time for those things that are important. I mean, how do you.
Spencer Horn
17:57 - 18:13
How do you manage all of that? And you know, there's a concept called Parkinson's law, right? And that is when you actually make, let's say you're planning on going on vacation tomorrow, it seems like you're more productive in the day before you go on vacation. Why can't we do that all the time?
Spencer Horn
18:13 - 18:25
And what I'm hoping you're going to say is when we make time for what really matters, the time that's left for us is actually more productive. I don't know how you're going to answer that, but. How do you do it?
Josh Kosnick
18:25 - 18:42
Why is there a problem that you even have to coach people with this? Well, you're spot on. And how many books do we need to read before we get the hint? And whether it's the four hour work week, the compound effect, a couple of my favorite books is you're absolutely right.
Josh Kosnick
18:42 - 18:56
If I got a flight at 1 p.m., how productive am I before noon? extremely productive, and so is everyone else. My dad always taught me this growing up, is if you want something done, give it to a busy person. As a young person, that didn't make sense to me at all.
Josh Kosnick
18:56 - 19:16
I'm like, well, they're already busy, why would you give it to them? Versus someone that doesn't have anything on their plate, give it to them and that'll fill their time. Well, as you grow and learn, and as my dad well evidenced for me, is that the busy person knows how to prioritize, knows how to make time to get things done. A not so busy person will take all the time necessary to get that thing done.
Josh Kosnick
19:17 - 19:43
And that's the thing. So some of these things people look at as like, I got to cram this into my day, cram this into my day, cram this into my day, I don't have time for that. And I would agree, all of us have the same clock, but the most highly productive people on the planet that you admire, that you revere, are getting all these things done. And what they're doing is time blocking or some other methodology that allows them to focus.
Josh Kosnick
19:43 - 20:10
Whether it's a morning routine, whether it's a, uh, maybe they shave off and say, okay, I look at my day in a few hour blocks where they go six to 10 as my first 10 to two is my second and two to six is my third is however they, however you look at it, people are getting things done. So I created a, a field guide or planner or journal, if you will, that allows you to look at those five bridges. and plot out your week in accordance.
Josh Kosnick
20:10 - 20:43
So for some people, the spiritual bridge or relationships bridge may not be an everyday thing, but it's a weekly thing, and they're put into their calendar. But I'll give one hack that's helped me over the last 20 years probably more than other, especially as I became a father, is you put your want-tos in your calendar before your have-tos. Almost everyone gets this wrong and puts their half twos in their calendar first. The problem with that is that the half twos always bleed into the want twos if they're not, if the want twos aren't on the calendar.
Josh Kosnick
20:43 - 21:03
So what are want twos? Date night with your spouse. being at your kid's sporting event, or in my case, I have dance competitions because I have three girls that are competitive dancers, or your workouts, or your Bible study, or whatever it may be, those are want-tos. You get those in your calendar first.
Josh Kosnick
21:03 - 21:21
So all of my important dates that I have on my want-tos are in my calendar already this year. In fact, they were there, uh, late November. I had those schedules, whether it's spring break, the dance competitions, my son's, uh, sporting stuff that I wanted to be a part of all of that's in the calendar first. Yep.
Josh Kosnick
21:21 - 21:23
Your rocks, your rocks go in first.
Spencer Horn
21:24 - 21:31
The big rocks are the want-tos. Those are the important ones. The little ones are the half twos.
Christian Napier
21:32 - 21:32
Right?
Josh Kosnick
21:33 - 21:39
That's right. That's 100% right. Because if you reverse the order, the big rocks don't fit. Right?
Josh Kosnick
21:39 - 22:03
So if you want to be a great husband or wife, if you want to be a great father or mother, those want-tos, those big rocks have to go in the jar first. And so get those on your calendar first and treat them as sacred. Just like having that flight at 1 p.m. I promise you that you will get the half twos done because you know you have that want to coming later that evening or this weekend or whatever it may be.
Josh Kosnick
22:03 - 22:13
So you compress time and get everything done that you need to get done so that you can be the father, the husband, the wife, the mother that you want to be.
Christian Napier
22:24 - 22:37
I love this. One of the questions that I have for you is about work-life balance. We hear that term a lot. Oh, work-life balance.
Christian Napier
22:38 - 22:54
And you may have an alternative take on that. And I'm curious to hear what that take is, because that seems to be something that a lot of people struggle with. But maybe they're looking at it through the wrong frame.
Josh Kosnick
22:55 - 23:03
Yeah. You want to know who I hear the work-life balance from the most? The people that haven't earned the right to have work-life balance. It's interesting.
Josh Kosnick
23:03 - 23:21
So work-life balance I don't think exists only because it indicates 50-50. People think of the scales, right, the two golden scales or bronze scales, and they think, okay, 50-50, that's what work-life balance means. That's never the case. And there will never be some magical day that you wake up and everything's 50-50.
Josh Kosnick
23:21 - 23:34
I'll just give an example from my own life. My girls I mentioned are competitive dancers. So they go to school and they leave the house at 7.30 a.m. And then post-school, they're at dance till about 9, 9.15 p.m.
Josh Kosnick
23:34 - 23:45
per night. So even if I wanted to have a balanced calendar and spend all the time with them as possible, That's just not possible. If I worked a normal nine to five, they're still gone till 9 p.m. at night.
Josh Kosnick
23:45 - 24:09
I don't get balanced with them. So my take has always been more about integration, harmony, maximization. As I choose to pick them up from dance, I choose to have that 15 minutes, that ride home with them and have some meaningful dialogue and conversations with them and check in on their feelings and how they're doing and if I can be of service to them. Right.
Josh Kosnick
24:09 - 24:27
So there's little pockets of time of quality time that we can have that doesn't indicate balance. There will also be seasons of your life where you're extremely unbalanced and right. So let's say you're an entrepreneur and you're just building the business. You're not going to be balanced at all.
Josh Kosnick
24:27 - 24:48
You got to devote all your time and energy to building that machine. Otherwise you're not going to make it. And so that is a completely unbalanced life at that point. However, if you build that machine and build the dream, there can become some more balance or maybe the pendulum swings back the other way where you have more time freedom that you can spend with your family.
Josh Kosnick
24:48 - 24:57
Let's say you get sick or your spouse gets sick. All your attention goes to that. that's not balance. No.
Josh Kosnick
24:57 - 25:18
So there's seasons of life where we have to figure out. So I think like we could use the words integration, harmony. I think probably the best terminology is counterbalance is how do I counterbalance when things feel a little bit off or when I need to make a pivot or I need to devote that time or that special time to my spouse who's sick or to my business that needs attention.
Josh Kosnick
25:19 - 25:44
But here's the key guys, communication. If you are married, If you have relationships in your life that matter to you, if you got to go into a season of hard work, let's say it's travel, or you're going to be working 14 hour days and you're going to be a little bit more disconnected because you got this big project, communicating upfront and understanding the trade-offs that are going to happen will help you save your marriage.
Spencer Horn
25:45 - 25:46
Josh, such great advice.
Christian Napier
25:46 - 25:52
You know, right now I'm in a season of life where my wife and I are empty nesters.
Spencer Horn
25:52 - 26:00
Right? And she's my business partner. And we travel the world. 80% of the time, she travels with me when I travel.
Spencer Horn
26:00 - 26:22
And, you know, I'll be, I'm headed to Doha here, Christian, shortly. She won't be coming on that one because I'm going to be totally focused on the client. Um, she'll come the other times and, and, uh, so many people look at that like, Oh, what a wonderful life. They have no idea how hard we worked, how hard she sacrificed the kids, the raising of the kids, the total out of balance.
Spencer Horn
26:22 - 26:39
My, my oldest daughter just had her fifth child and, uh, we were going to have a big Christmas get together. And they just, she just got back from the doctor saying, you know, the, the, the baby wasn't responding well to, you know, breastfeeding. Everything changes. Every focus goes to that child.
Spencer Horn
26:39 - 26:52
And so you reorient your time, your energy. And guess what? We didn't get to have them for Christmas. And it's been three months since we've seen our brand new baby grandson.
Spencer Horn
26:52 - 27:12
And we were out of the country, and all these things happened. And you know what? The time that we had this last weekend was just magic. You can't, you just, Talk about what this psychologically does to you when you have this mindset that I deserve this certain balance.
Spencer Horn
27:12 - 27:18
What does it do to you when you haven't earned it and you think you deserve it?
Josh Kosnick
27:20 - 27:37
Yeah, it's a, that's a great question. And I'm glad you called it out because we, we have, we, a lot of us live in this world of, we think we deserve something. We think we're owed something and that's just not how the universe works. And that, that's a big part of what's going wrong with parenting nowadays.
Josh Kosnick
27:38 - 27:45
I'm on the opposite end of you guys. I got 14, 12, 10 and eight. So I'm in the mix of, uh, It's a busy season.
Spencer Horn
27:45 - 27:50
This is the best time of life. Just savor every moment of it. It's awesome.
Josh Kosnick
27:51 - 27:54
I'm trying my best, but it will go so fast.
Spencer Horn
27:54 - 27:56
I promise. Blink and it's over.
Josh Kosnick
27:58 - 28:14
Yeah. I got great advice from a longtime coach and mentor that said, Josh, when I first, when we had our firstborn said, Josh, the days are long, but the years are short and I've never forgot it. And now that I have a teenager, I can. Totally appreciate it.
Josh Kosnick
28:14 - 28:31
So the point of this is like, what do you actually deserve? What do you actually, uh, are owed is, is all through results. It's all how you create your life. So often we're looking at it from what society creates as, as rules or, or whatever it may be.
Josh Kosnick
28:32 - 28:45
Uh, I read this book, uh, last year and I can't remember the author's name off the top of my head, but, uh, he called them rules, bullshit rules. that were passed down from generation to generation. And I thought it was a great term, right? Brules.
Josh Kosnick
28:45 - 29:08
So now I've used that as well as this bullshit rule, like what do we need to unlearn about society and ourselves to create the life that we want? Not what others want for us, not what we think we should have. We got to earn every step, everything that we get in our lives. So that's why I said, I started out this topic with most of the people that talk about work-life balance.
Josh Kosnick
29:08 - 29:23
are the ones that don't deserve it because they haven't worked for anything to earn that time freedom. So what I see though is a lot of guilt and shame cycle. And, and it's really harmful to your psyche. It's really harmful to your relationships.
Josh Kosnick
29:23 - 29:42
It's really harmful to production and results by falling into that cycle. So you got to determine the rules for your life. You got to determine what you want and determine how you want to live your life. Not other people's way of living, not, not, uh, Instagram's way of telling you got to do this or the perfect morning routine or whatever.
Josh Kosnick
29:42 - 29:57
It's your life and you only got one shot at it. So you better get it right and do it your way. So the guilt and shame cycle real quick. Most of the time, here's what I see is people don't do what they know they should do during their working hours.
Josh Kosnick
29:58 - 30:40
Then they go home feeling guilty and shameful about not getting done what they know they need to get done and aren't present as a husband or wife or aren't present as a mother or father. And then they go back to work the next day and they're guilty and shameful about not being present at home. and they just end up in this spin cycle of guilt and shame, and there's one, I won't say easy, I'm gonna say simple, one simple way out of it. Do exactly what you know you need to do at work, and do exactly what you know you need to do at home, and just continue to execute over and over again, repetitiously, to build the life that you want.
Christian Napier
30:45 - 31:15
I love this advice. And we've talked a lot, Josh, about really focusing on this Kairos, which seems like it could be an individual pursuit. Like we're trying to live a fulfilling, joyful life. Now our podcast is focused on teamwork, right?
Christian Napier
31:16 - 31:51
OK, I can work on myself, but in my organization, whether that be my family organization, my spouse, children, et cetera, or whether it's my professional organization or work organization, how do we extend this work so that our teams are aligned and our teams are experiencing this or realizing this Kairos approach?
Josh Kosnick
31:51 - 32:26
whether it was on purpose or not, starting with the individual is the path to a better team, right? So we started talking about individual and how to, you know, get better as a human being with this conversation thus far, but that is the path to being a better teammate. Because how often have we stepped into a work meeting, whether it's a leadership team table, whether it's a all team hands-on deck meeting, and we've sensed passive aggressive behavior. or we felt too domineering of a boss, my way or the highway, and not allowing the team to input.
Josh Kosnick
32:27 - 33:03
Most of the time, that's from an individual not working hard enough on themselves, not being truly grounded in authenticity, and possibly not unlearning some bad habits that they were taught. So working on yourself as hard as possible and everyone in your organization working harder on themselves than they do on their jobs leads to a better team. Now, that being said, how can we get more Kairos in our teams? Starting with everyone being truly whole in themselves and authentic and continuing to work as a team to get better individually.
Josh Kosnick
33:03 - 33:40
So many of my teams will do book clubs where they're continually doing individual work extracting the lessons from whether it's that book or that lesson that they're passing out on that month, coming back together and how did that impact them so they can be a better teammate as a, as an individual, sovereign human being? And what can they bring to the table as a teammate? Now, that being said, as we get to better, get together as a team, one of the key traits that I've done in my organizations, and I have taught with many of my coaching clients, is what are the rules, the navigating rules that we're gonna have for our team?
Josh Kosnick
33:41 - 34:06
So one of the rules that comes up often in teams is that, hey, we can argue in this room behind closed doors, but once we leave these doors, we're a unified front. We speak our truth. Right, we get to the core root of the issue. We solve that issue at its root, not just the symptoms, because that's what too many teams do.
Josh Kosnick
34:06 - 34:28
If we're gonna have a highly effective team, we need to solve the root cause and not these ancillary symptoms that we keep popping up and keep addressing. Like no talking behind each other's back, no three-way conversations. These are just some of the examples that come up and creating rules of engagement. for your teams.
Josh Kosnick
34:29 - 35:02
And when you guys are all buying into that as a team, the Kairos moments happen because you know that you're working together as collective individuals that have the best heart of the, uh, best interests and heart of the organization or the team that you're leading or working with. What I like to say with that is like, we're harder on the problem than we are on each other. We're focused on what is right, not who is right. And that's, if you have those key metrics and keep the key rules of engagement in force, we can really come together as a team.
Josh Kosnick
35:03 - 35:24
Cause we're all, we all have the same mindset of constant and never ending improvement. We're not going to beat each other up for saying something, you know, you know, wacky or out of line. And, and we really keep focused on what is the mission at hand so that we can come together and really enjoy the work that we're doing. The teams that do this.
Josh Kosnick
35:24 - 35:28
They're not only more cohesive and functional, they have a ton more fun.
Spencer Horn
35:43 - 36:13
Josh, I do a lot of professional speaking and I talk about this topic where I bring in this idea of F1 racing and where I'm talking about strengths, your engine and then drag being those weaknesses that hold you back. Because I talk about this, I watched this movie just a couple days ago called F1. I don't know if you've seen it with Brad Pitt.
Josh Kosnick
36:13 - 36:14
I haven't seen it, but I've heard of it, yeah.
Spencer Horn
36:14 - 36:37
Yeah, and the whole concept comes down to kind of what we're talking about. Anyway, this older race car driver, in a moment of vulnerability, somebody asks him, what is it that you really want? Uh, he's like, I want this moment that I've experienced where everything time stops basically, right? Your heartbeat slows down and everything is just present at once.
Spencer Horn
36:37 - 36:49
It's kind of what we're talking about, right? This Cairo's time. And he'd been chasing that as an individual pursuit and all these different races. And it wasn't until he found a team that that experience returned to him.
Spencer Horn
36:50 - 37:08
It's a movie, Christian, but it's a metaphor for what we're talking about, which I think the team can really help facilitate those individual Kairos moments you're talking about. Sorry. I just didn't want to get cheesy here. Go Sonny Hayes, you know, old race car.
Spencer Horn
37:09 - 37:31
Um, so, but how do you, cause I know you, you do a lot of EOS, which, you know, is great for business systems. And so I imagine you work with some sales teams as well. Um, sales, sales teams are really tricky because in many respects, you're competing with each other on a team. How do you create an environment where.
Spencer Horn
37:31 - 37:49
you know, your teammate is actually trying to beat you. I mean, how do you, how do you create this, this, this, this esprit de corps, these Kairos moments when, you know, we're, we're trying to incentivize people to work together at the same time, outperform each other. Does that make sense?
Josh Kosnick
37:49 - 37:58
Am I making sense? Total sense. So my last business, I ran a financial firm. I had 250 employees, 115 advisors.
Josh Kosnick
37:58 - 38:19
They were all, in essence, competing against each other in the marketplace. But we had a really cohesive team. So one of the things that people get wrong about competition is for highly competitive people, and I am one of those, you want to crush your competition. But at the same point, your competition makes you better.
Josh Kosnick
38:19 - 38:39
So you have a healthy respect for them. Like, I always want people to compete with me to run with me to be highly competitive. And they're always seeking to get better themselves, because that pushes me to get better. And so if we're just the best, that's part of the thing is like, we've all heard, you know, you want to be the dumbest person in the room.
Josh Kosnick
38:39 - 38:52
Because if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And that's very similar in a competitive environment like sales. You want to beat your competition because you want to be the best. That's what a competitive fire spirit is.
Josh Kosnick
38:53 - 39:09
But at the same point, if you're just blowing past your competition all the time and no one's challenging you to get better and you can just continue doing what you're doing, you're not growing. You're, you're stuck. And eventually that'll fall off. Like business is the most competitive.
Josh Kosnick
39:09 - 39:30
It doesn't, you can name a sport. Business is more competitive, but like, there's no, no questions about it. It's the most competitive market out there, competitive sport out there. So in the, in the spirit of having a healthy respect for your competition at the same time, trying to be the best, I think is the pinnacle that we can get to is so we would have.
Josh Kosnick
39:31 - 39:46
many network days, group days, leadership days, where we would get these high-achieving advisors together to grow together. They're hearing the same speakers. They're hearing the same messages. How they take those and how they implement them is on them.
Josh Kosnick
39:47 - 40:08
We would have celebratory dinners, year-end awards, banquets, stuff of that nature. People were competing for that top spot, all that different stuff. At the same point, we're having a healthy respect for the work that we do. I think one of the early inclinations that people need to get, and for some people it comes earlier than others, but you are not for everyone.
Josh Kosnick
40:09 - 40:35
So when I looked at an advisor across my office, when I was an advisor and not the owner of the firm, I would be like, man, that dude's kind of an odd duck. That being said, he found his tribe, like he found his people and clients that would prefer to work with him being the odd duck than me being the cool macho guy or whatever you want to frame me as. But, uh, it's interesting. Everyone is going to communicate a little bit differently.
Josh Kosnick
40:35 - 40:56
Everyone has their own personality and authenticity and your clients are going to be attracted to you or someone else based on that authenticity, based on that personality. It's, based on your character. It's really an interesting dichotomy. I think too many people get caught up in the competition and not thinking of their competition as a way to continue to grow.
Christian Napier
40:56 - 41:35
I really, really love that approach. It resonates with me. As you were talking there, Josh, I was thinking kind of back to the you know, the sports metaphor, you talked about working with people who work with, you know, National Basketball Association athletes and so on and so forth. And there are different roles that need to be played on a team.
Christian Napier
41:35 - 42:08
And the same thing kind of happens in organizations and sometimes It means that I'm in a role that maybe I don't want to be, or I think I should be in a different role. Everybody wants to be, OK, I want to be the, well, not everybody wants to, but a lot of people that are competitive want to be the number one option on the team. But maybe they're going to be the number two or number three option. And if you're not careful, that can lead to some damaging things.
Christian Napier
42:08 - 42:29
Competition can be healthy. Comparison can be damaging if you either use it as a way to position yourself like I'm better than everybody else here, or I can't keep up, I'm drowning. That's enmity, right? Right.
Christian Napier
42:30 - 43:05
And I'm guessing that kerosene can help you see people for who they are and not as objects to be better than or worse than. I'm just curious how you navigate the mindset of of valuing, you know, valuing human beings while at the same time trying to push this competitive edge and keep it healthy, you know, so that it's not unhealthy for you or for the team.
Josh Kosnick
43:06 - 43:19
Yeah, it's a really tough dichotomy, Christian. That being said, you can get there through maturity and understanding. I'll give an example. There was an advisor in my office, happened to be a female.
Josh Kosnick
43:20 - 43:38
She was a few years ahead of me when I came in the business and we really didn't like each other. Our personalities just kind of clashed and she was a few years ahead of me. So she was beating me in a bunch of metrics and I wanted to beat her. competitive wise, and again, because we didn't really see eye to eye.
Josh Kosnick
43:39 - 44:01
So I had to look at what she was doing better than me to be able to have an objective view on how I could beat her. Well, one of the things she was doing better than me is she was keeping about 80 meetings a month. And on average, I was keeping about 60-65. So that being said, just on sheer volume and activity, she had a leg up on me.
Josh Kosnick
44:01 - 44:34
So there's only two ways for me to beat that. I had to see better clientele and keep the same number of meetings that I was keeping, or I had to increase my activity and keep more meetings and more on average than her. So there's a couple of ways to go about that. But even though we didn't necessarily like each other and we wanted to beat each other on a competitive speed, I had a very healthy respect for her work ethic, her drive, and her want to continue to be the best.
Josh Kosnick
44:34 - 44:55
And so there's a way, and that came through maturity. That's why I brought that word up, because I started as an entrepreneur when I was 24 years old, when I was not mature at that point. So you grow with that and understand that humans are all doing the best for the most part. We know there's some evil people out there, but humans are doing the best they can with what they know.
Josh Kosnick
44:56 - 45:14
They were born into this world. Their parents, I also believe this about parents. Most parents do the very best they can with what they know. Some parents do it better because they continue to seek to evolve and learn and grow or unlearn some of those rules they were taught from their parents and break those generational curses.
Josh Kosnick
45:14 - 45:41
But most people are trying to do the best they can. Once you have a healthy appreciation for humans as a whole and still Like the maturity and the respect kind of ticks upwards. Now you can still want to be the best and still want to beat them and that's that's on you, but you got to do it morally ethically and really keep. keep the humanity of the whole situation in the center of your heart instead of just a competitive fire.
Josh Kosnick
45:42 - 46:04
I read this great book, maybe you guys have as well, Positive Intelligence by Shirzad Shamim. And he rates how much your upper brain versus your lower brain is working for you. And the upper brain being the wise one and the lower brain being the judge and kind of the dementor in your life and beautiful articulation. Great book.
Josh Kosnick
46:04 - 46:23
That assessment is on a zero to a hundred scale. You want to rate 75 or above to say that your brain is working for you versus against you. But then he has another assessment and they're both free by the way on his website where he lists the nine saboteurs. Well, my number one saboteur is hyper competitive.
Josh Kosnick
46:25 - 46:33
So I'm a very, I mean, I played college football. I played sports all my life. I'm very competitive. Competitive in and of itself is not a bad thing.
Josh Kosnick
46:34 - 47:04
Hypercompetitive, when you're only placing your worth on winning, hitting goals, stuff of that nature, can be very detrimental to your psyche and also to your relationships. So I think that's a great starting point for people to understand where their saboteurs are and understand if their brain's working for them versus against them and really start to move forward in their own emotional and brain intelligence to continue to strive to be better.
Spencer Horn
47:06 - 47:36
Josh, you know, you talked about how you had this defining moment in 2021, a moment of difficulty that caused you to transition into these and developing these five bridges. Can you, I'm putting you on the spot a little bit here, can you share an example, here's another transition, of the work that you've done with a client where they were in a struggle and used these stepping stones to transition to a better place?
Josh Kosnick
47:38 - 48:05
Yeah, I've worked with, been privileged to work with some professional athletes, NFL, and I've been privileged to work with some business owners that have exited happily. But in both of those instances, they lost their identity, at least what they thought was their identity. Uh, you know, professional football player, they get a lot of notoriety. They get a lot of accolades.
Josh Kosnick
48:05 - 48:20
They're on TV. People know them on social media, all the different stuff. They knew them as the football player. And, uh, when that, when they retire or they, uh, can no longer go on because of injury or whatever it may be, they lose that identity.
Josh Kosnick
48:21 - 48:37
And now who are they? Or take the business owner that sells the business, makes millions of dollars. And they're in charge of however many hundreds of people. And all of a sudden the next day they wake up and, okay, what do I do now?
Josh Kosnick
48:37 - 48:47
I hit the pinnacle. I did the thing. I sold the business. And that identity gets just completely erased.
Josh Kosnick
48:48 - 48:59
And what we got to understand is that our identity isn't rooted in what we do. That's just a piece of it. It's just a piece of the puzzle. I'll just use myself as an example.
Josh Kosnick
48:59 - 49:04
I'm a child of God. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an athlete.
Josh Kosnick
49:04 - 49:31
I'm a great leader. Like all these things comprise who we are. So once I start working through them with the bridges, you know, spiritual, internal relationships, uh, environment and legacy, we start to build that muscle of more of who we are and then also a clear purpose on what we do or what impact we want to have or anything of that nature.
Josh Kosnick
49:31 - 49:56
So the bridges work for anyone, but that's why I want to get to people before they have that identity loss before they have that big transition in their life so that we can actually work these bridges and help them understand that there, they are so much more, so much depth to them as a human than just what they do. I mean, if you guys think about it, just go to any networking event. And the first question out of anyone's mouth is what do you do?
Josh Kosnick
49:58 - 50:15
as if that's totally defines us as a human or it's a measuring stick as to, is this person worth me talking to them? I would much prefer like, tell me your story. I would much prefer, because then that leaves them up to interpretation or what story do they want to tell? I would say, I would ask a question.
Josh Kosnick
50:16 - 50:31
So some people hate me at a networking function because I, I don't do surface level, but I would like to ask the question, what's the most difficult thing about being you right now? and finding some depth to that person that's beyond their title.
Christian Napier
50:43 - 51:25
Well, gosh, uh, We blink and an hour has gone by almost here, Josh. This has been really, really a fascinating conversation. And I appreciate you joining us. Before we get to Spencer's lightning round, a final question from me, and that is, On the one hand, you can use this proactively, this Kairos code, to orient your life, to figure out how to focus on who you are as opposed to what you do.
Christian Napier
51:25 - 51:46
But sometimes we just have to learn lessons the hard way. I mean, it is part of life. And it can get us to a place where we are ready. We're emotionally ready, like, OK, fine.
Christian Napier
51:48 - 52:08
I've been kicking against the pricks, to use a biblical term, long enough. And I'm suffering the consequences. And so I'm curious. How...
Christian Napier
52:09 - 52:44
Is it... Yeah, you'd like to prevent bad things from happening and you'd like to be proactive and focus on it, but how many people do you interact with who the reason that they're reaching out to you is like, I'm having the identity crisis now. Like, okay, I have retired from football, and I really don't know who I am, and I'm experiencing the crisis now. And because they're in the crisis, they are mentally and emotionally vulnerable enough- Prepared now.
Christian Napier
52:44 - 53:03
To transition to something else, as opposed to, Yeah, I want to be proactive about it. I mean, what are you seeing out there in the work that you're doing with your client? Are they reaching out to you because they are in the midst of that identity crisis? Or are they trying to be proactive?
Christian Napier
53:04 - 53:17
And what advice would you give to people to perhaps not wait until you're in that moment of crisis? Get this figured out now.
Josh Kosnick
53:18 - 53:33
Yeah, I would say it's about half and half, Christian. The identity crisis slaps us in the face, right? It's a kick in the gut, punch in the face, whatever you want to say. That's the moment people realize they need help.
Josh Kosnick
53:33 - 54:01
The other half, I think there's quite a bit of society that's figured out that the rules that we've adapted, the societal pressures and norms that we've adapted, at least here in America, aren't working for them. And they're searching for a different way. And so I would say that other half is really exciting to me because some of them are even younger than you guys, than me, that are actually searching for that. They're like, you know what?
Josh Kosnick
54:01 - 54:29
The way my parents did this, the way I've been doing this isn't working for me. And I'm looking for a different way to build my life and leave the legacy that I want to leave. So I think, uh, if this has peaked anyone's curiosity and how to build these bridges early, earlier than going through the crisis, uh, man, I'd love to have a conversation because that's, that's where I really thrive in helping people, uh, hopefully avoid some of the mistakes and pitfalls that I've made.
Josh Kosnick
54:30 - 54:56
And, uh, but on the other hand, you know, my business got ripped away from me in 2021. And although it was a lucrative sale, that was what I thought was my purpose, and that was going to be what I was going to do much later in my life. God had different plans. Now, you have two choices when something bad like that happens, whether it's divorce, loss of a loved one, business getting ripped away from you.
Josh Kosnick
54:56 - 55:08
You're not getting through this life unscathed. Something's going to happen, but you have two choices. You can play the victim or you can search for meaning in the crisis. And I've always searched for that meaning.
Josh Kosnick
55:08 - 55:23
Life often, we let it either happen to us or for us. So I'm always one that's like, don't waste the crisis. Don't waste the hardship. God's pain or God's purpose is sometimes packaged in pain.
Josh Kosnick
55:24 - 55:33
So let's figure out what that purpose is, what the reason we're going through this, why this happened for us and live into that.
Christian Napier
55:38 - 55:43
Awesome, Spencer, we got five minutes. Okay, ready? You gotta wrap it up.
Spencer Horn
55:43 - 55:55
These are really short questions with one word or short answers, all right? You got it. Okay, Kairos in one word. Presence.
Spencer Horn
55:56 - 55:57
Best leadership habit you've adopted.
Josh Kosnick
55:59 - 56:03
Oh, there's a lot. I'm just going to say lead by example.
Spencer Horn
56:04 - 56:08
You've already mentioned one book, but a book that changed your mindset.
Josh Kosnick
56:11 - 56:15
I'm going to give you the best book that I've read in the last couple of years. And that's unreasonable hospitality.
Spencer Horn
56:17 - 56:21
Thank you. Uh, biggest myth about high performance.
Josh Kosnick
56:24 - 56:39
That it's about effort. all the time in the grind versus thinking smarter and not just working harder. Faith means? Belief in something that you can't control, that you can't prove.
Spencer Horn
56:41 - 56:44
Your favorite EOS tool or principle?
Josh Kosnick
56:47 - 56:47
Delegate and elevate.
Spencer Horn
56:49 - 56:54
Your personal Kairos moment?
Josh Kosnick
57:00 - 57:01
The birth of all my kids.
Spencer Horn
57:03 - 57:05
What makes a team truly elite?
Josh Kosnick
57:09 - 57:17
That they're vulnerable enough to, uh, solve the root causes, even when it involves their own wrongdoings.
Spencer Horn
57:18 - 57:20
Coffee fueled mornings are a slow start.
Josh Kosnick
57:25 - 57:35
I always have coffee in the morning, but I wait two hours to let my body wake up. I'm very into health and fitness. So I know that I need that time for my brain and body to wake up before I caffeinate.
Spencer Horn
57:37 - 57:41
What do you tell someone who who's about to give up?
Josh Kosnick
57:44 - 57:45
This too shall pass. Keep going.
Christian Napier
57:47 - 57:53
All right, Christian. That's it. Wow. Well, uh, Josh, this has been a fascinating conversation.
Christian Napier
57:53 - 58:16
I really appreciate you taking the time to join us. You are our first guest of the new year of 2026, and we're bringing you in with a wonderful, wonderful conversation. I learned a lot here. If people want to learn more about how you can help them, if they want to learn more about the Kairos Code, where they can go buy your book, what's the best way for them to connect with you?
Josh Kosnick
58:17 - 58:31
Yeah, for the book, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, anywhere you find books, I would love for you to pick that up. It poured my heart and soul into that. And I'm just sharing from the journey and not trying to be an expert in anything. But you can find me at Josh Kosnick on all social media.
Josh Kosnick
58:31 - 58:50
The one thing I would give your audience that's been really impactful is we created a free assessment to go along with the Kairos Code. So you go to joshkosnick.com. Backslash assessment. Uh, it will give you a totality score on your five bridges and then it'll break your five bridges down and give you a score for each of the five bridges.
Josh Kosnick
58:50 - 59:01
So it's been, and it's meant to take over and over again. So as you continue to work on these things, as you progress, you should retake the assessment and see how you've progressed. So I would highly encourage everyone to do that.
Christian Napier
59:01 - 59:07
That is awesome. We'll put that in the show notes. Absolutely. We'll get those links in the show notes for sure.
Christian Napier
59:07 - 59:10
I actually want to go hop on and take that assessment myself.
Josh Kosnick
59:10 - 59:15
It's 84 questions, but the average person takes it in six minutes, so you should be good.
Christian Napier
59:16 - 59:26
Awesome. Spencer, you've been helping organizations build high-performing teams for decades. How can people reach out and contact you?
Spencer Horn
59:26 - 59:34
Best way, say hey on LinkedIn, like many of you do. Thank you for that. That's a great way to contact me. And Christian, you too.
Spencer Horn
59:34 - 59:45
Isn't he great, Josh? Great questions. I just love having my co-host. He's so smart and thoughtful, and I love people to get to know him.
Spencer Horn
59:45 - 59:48
So how can people get a hold of you, Christian?
Christian Napier
59:49 - 59:57
LinkedIn is easy. Just look up Christian APR on LinkedIn. Happy to connect with folks there. Well, this has been a fantastic conversation.
Christian Napier
59:57 - 1:00:04
Again, thank you. Thank you, Josh, for the time. We really appreciate it. And listeners and viewers, we're grateful for you too.
Christian Napier
1:00:05 - 1:00:08
Please like and subscribe to our podcast. We'll catch you again soon.