A WKNC commentary podcast about living and evolving while Black, hosted by Alexis Grant, Jeanine Ikekhua and Hamsata Mazou.
Alexis Grant 0:00
Hey, I'm Alexis.
Hamsata Mazou 0:02
And I'm Hamsata.
Jeanine Ikekhua 0:03
And I'm Jeanine. And you're listening to WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1 radio
Alexis Grant 0:18
Hey, everybody, we're back to the back to back to back to back to back, back, back, back, back, back
Alexis Grant 0:30
Yeah, we was on different rhythms for a little bit but we're gonna ignore that. Before we get into like the deep, deep, deep topic of today, as y'all heard in the last episode, if you haven't, that measns you haven't listened. Go listen to the last episode. Thank you very much.
Jeanine Ikekhua 0:44
Period! And that's on purr!
Alexis Grant 0:50
We are going to finish up a little question from last episode. Do you feel like people can ever fully change? Now Hamsata, you can finally give them those two cents you wanted to give so bad in last episode!
Jeanine Ikekhua 1:01
Let my girl speak! Hashtag let my girl speak. Go ahead Hamsata.
Hamsata Mazou 1:08
I feel attacked! But what I wanted to say on that, I want to bring stuff all in communications. So you know how, like, there's more. Oh, that's not my no more. But there's like core stuff that you have. And there's like, the societal thing. And then there's like, the environmental thing, you know, like the three circles, I can't remember what it's called. Essentially, I feel like people can change their core because I feel like by the time you come to change that core, it's been embedded you to the point. I mean, I feel like it's possible. But it's gonna be very, very difficult. Like that they cannot, like changing it will be very, very difficult but it's possible. But for the majority, yeah, for the majority of people no. To fully change, you'll have to change your core and I think your core to be changed is like, quite difficult. So essentially, no, I don't think somebody could fully change, I think they could partially change and majority change. But changing that core is just gonna be so difficult. That's like all the things in your childhood, things you grew up with. And the things that kind of set you up for what the patterns you do in life, you know what I mean? And if you don't come and reassess them early in life, by the time you've passed that period, just to go change them. It's ultimately going to be like, almost impossible, but like, you know, anything's possible if you put in the right stuff or whatever, but it's yours. Yeah, it's just gonna be very, very difficult. So I don't really think it's possible. Yes, but for like the main people. Yeah, I was putting my money's worth, but let's be honest. Would you really want to put in all that work? Definitely. For good like most of it, like 97% of it done? You basically a brand new person
Alexis Grant 2:46
Yeah, I can see that for.
Hamsata Mazou 2:48
Right. You know what I mean? So like, I think it really
Alexis Grant 2:50
I think full I just think not necessarily 100% change, but more like, how you present yourself how you come how your mindset is, like, is almost unrecognizable.
Hamsata Mazou 3:00
Oh, that yes
Alexis Grant 3:01
like you see, like two different people
Hamsata Mazou 3:02
I think that's very possible. It's like, I've watched people grow through social media. It's kind of weird, because I never see people to grow. I've moved too much to ever see somebody ever evolve. But like when I see people's mindset changed, and stuff like that, I'm like, Wow, you've grown as a person. And I usually tell them this, too. I'm like, Hey, I've seen your growth over social media. Like, I would just like to let you know if nobody's told you. Your growth is amazing. And I'm proud of you.
Alexis Grant 3:30
Aw, that's really sweet.
Jeanine Ikekhua 3:31
Yeah. Yeah. Y'all take some tips.
Hamsata Mazou 3:33
Yeah, like I let people know, like, I love people growing.
Alexis Grant 3:37
Can you please your name into the microphone.
Hamsata Mazou 3:39
I'm good.
Alexis Grant 3:40
What's your name?
Hamsata Mazou 3:41
Hamsata.
Alexis Grant 3:41
Yeah, don't play with her. Like she's talking real. And you're not hearing it. You're not hearing it.
Jeanine Ikekhua 3:50
I personally feel like can people change? Yes. It's just a matter, will I stick around to wait to see you change? No. I keep it back with you.
Alexis Grant 4:05
Would you come back if somebody changed?
Jeanine Ikekhua 4:08
100 percent
Alexis Grant 4:09
But you're just not going through the process.
Jeanine Ikekhua 4:10
Yeah, because the damage has already been done at that point. Ain't nothing much I could do for you.
Hamsata Mazou 4:15
It depends on the relation I have with that person. Like, if it's somebody close to me, I'll stay throughout the process. Not necessarily like holding hands, but you know, daily, like little checkups here and there. But it's somebody I kind of adjacently know, it's like, do your growth, come back to me when you want to come back to me like, you know,
Jeanine Ikekhua 4:32
I think it also depends on like, what it is, I think I'm thinking in terms of like harmful like when people have been like, toxic towards you. And then it's like, I've changed as a person but it's like, I, don't I think I can, like I'm happy for you and I want 100, I want you to go out there and get more friends and be a great person to them. But yeah, like you've, you've done way, but you've done too much damage. It's just like I'll watch you from a distance from now, or just not watch you period. If I wish you better though,
Alexis Grant 5:02
yeah, but somewhere else, I wish you best somewhere else. Jeanine is nodding for those who can't see.
Jeanine Ikekhua 5:08
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Alexis Grant 5:11
Okay, so the topic we talking about today today we are talking about boundaries,
Jeanine Ikekhua 5:15
set them set them set them. Forget people. You don't need them, you don't need people, no I'm sorry,
Alexis Grant 5:23
get into boundaries in different dynamics where our boundaries are this that third, we need to talk about the purpose of boundaries, which is to protect, what are we protecting our boundaries? Like, what are you protecting
Jeanine Ikekhua 5:38
my body? My mind, my soul? My relationship with God and my heart, because you're not playing with any part of me.
Hamsata Mazou 5:47
That's a, that's a good setlist right there.
Alexis Grant 5:53
Like, I mean, I generalize, I should be like, my peace.
Jeanine Ikekhua 5:56
Oh, my peace. Wow. That's what I mean. But yeah, my piece. But no, yeah, my peace is a big one.
Alexis Grant 6:04
I want to say that, but sometimes I'll be letting people compromise my peace. But.
Jeanine Ikekhua 6:06
me too.
Alexis Grant 6:09
Um, first dynamic we're talking about is setting boundaries with friends. Can you be friends with someone who is seen from the general public as a bad person? How do you feel about that?
Hamsata Mazou 6:20
If I know they're not a bad person, I can be friends with them.
Alexis Grant 6:24
Once you initiate a friendship with somebody or be willing to start a friendship with somebody who is generally known and even to you as somebody who is bad or toxic or etc.
Hamsata Mazou 6:34
Well, for me friendships in general, I don't intentionally do anything, they kind of just form. So like, if I just meet this person, I don't catch a bad vibe, even though I've heard it. I'm like, I'll keep at the back of my mind for sure. Because like, if a lot of people are saying something about a person, something has to be true, for sure. You know what I mean? But if I'm not seeing that with my relation with that person, I'm still like, go ahead and pursue and stuff and see where that leads me. And if we end up being friends, we end up being friends and then somebody's like, Oh, this is a bad person. I'm like, Okay, that's cool to you. I also believe certain people behave a certain ways towards like, who they want to, you know, some people don't know, they'll show like their bad sides and sometimes they'll show their good sides. I've sometimes.
Alexis Grant 7:18
I've not experienced the bad side from some people that people are like they often experienced, work based off that as long as they haven't caused, like, an irreparable harm.
Hamsata Mazou 7:29
Yeah, like if it's something crazy. Yeah.
Alexis Grant 7:31
Like they just be treating you mean, I'm sorry. I have not seen any meanness out of them.
Hamsata Mazou 7:36
Right.
Alexis Grant 7:36
I will keep them away from you. I will not invite y'all.
Jeanine Ikekhua 7:39
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Alexis Grant 7:41
But my personal relationship with them will be continuing.
Hamsata Mazou 7:44
Right and I agree. Yeah. Like there's some things you're like, Whoa, like I could never, Yeah.
Jeanine Ikekhua 7:51
I'll be honest. If it's like a general like I've heard from random people that oh, she did this she did that. I'm not gonna, like that person wanted to be my friend. I don't think I would actively look for a relationship with, a friendship with them. But they would probably have to try a little bit harder to be my friend just because it's like damn all this has been said and I don't know anything about you so I'm a little cautious but I will see, but if you do my friend dirty I don't, I don't know you, I don't know you, I don't know your name
Hamsata Mazou 8:22
Vicky when like sticky
Alexis Grant 8:25
I've had my, I've had really close friends being like head to head with each other, people picking sides
Hamsata Mazou 8:34
I was about to say like sometimes when it's like you already knew the other party, but they do them dirty
Jeanine Ikekhua 8:38
That's different, like two best friends fighting, y'all through it, all three y'all were best friends. That's kind of different
Alexis Grant 8:43
right. Yeah, if I knew something was going around, I feel like 80% of the time it doesn't matter what it is for me, I'm I might have it in the back of my head and what I'll do is I'll just use that information not to treat them any differently but to look out for warning signs, I'll be extra cautious about certain scenarios certain this certain that.
Jeanine Ikekhua 9:03
If I start seeing stuff it's been fun sweetie.
Alexis Grant 9:05
I won't even go that far. I will probably just if I see the sign then I feel like I have enough to approach them on the subject, because I still want them to tell me their side and there to be.
Jeanine Ikekhua 9:16
oh yeah, no for sure.
Alexis Grant 9:17
But I would not let that prevent me from becoming friends with them. I would just be very cautious especially when it comes to like people being sneaky and vindictive and like doing things behind people's backs. I won't even say I won't become, I'll get I can get really cool with them, possibly friends depending on like that explanation, but I just know not to bring certain things up around them.
Jeanine Ikekhua 9:40
Oh, yeah. No, start a conversation, for sure.
Alexis Grant 9:44
So it might, it'd more limit the possibilities of how we become friends. But I wouldn't say prohibits us in any way to be friends.
Jeanine Ikekhua 9:55
No makes sense.
Alexis Grant 9:56
Everybody needs a friend.
Jeanine Ikekhua 9:59
Sometimes I'm just not that friend for you.
Hamsata Mazou 10:02
I love how Jeanine's always like
Alexis Grant 10:07
I'd be honored every day to be like my friend Jeanine.
Hamsata Mazou 10:20
Like, I'd be like if you want to be friends with Jeanine. Right, right.
Alexis Grant 10:27
But okay, next one. Do you let your friends walk over you? Because you know when it comes to boundaries, like I'm not letting no stranger walk over me. Sometimes I let my friends walk over me. I'm gonna be honest. And who do you put first in your dynamic? When it comes to your friendship and boundaries? Like? Are we respecting boundaries? Equally? Are we going based off their boundaries? Are you making them go fully based off your boundaries? Like how does that dynamic look for you in your friendships?
Jeanine Ikekhua 10:51
we are respecting each other's boundaries. We are stating each other's boundaries and we are respecting it. And also like mistakes will happen and you will learn from that. Like for me a big thing is like, my phone is available 24/7 to my friends, whether it's 2am 4am 6am if you get to be my friend, if we become friends, not gets because it makes it seem like you guys are odd or something. It's not all that. But like, it's really not
Hamsata Mazou 11:16
But back three episodes ago, we were like
Jeanine Ikekhua 11:24
No, it's not even that deep. But like, if you are my friend and I genuinely like I care for you. My phone is open 24/7. But one of my boundaries is kind of just like, don't overdo it. Don't be calling me at like six o'clock. Hey, I was bored. Can I just talk to you real quick. Girl get off my phone. I just feel like, state your boundaries with your friends and everybody respect them, if you want to have that friend, if you're not going to respect your friends boundaries. Go ahead and end that first because you don't like them that much.
Hamsata Mazou 11:53
Oh I think that's a that's a good point.
Alexis Grant 11:57
Do you let your like, beyond your friend boundaries. Do you ever let your friends walk over boundaries that you don't let strangers walk over?
Jeanine Ikekhua 12:09
My time, I certainly would never call me at anything. No, but friends. Yes. Especially like with-
Alexis Grant 12:16
your own deprecation sometimes.
Jeanine Ikekhua 12:18
Yeah. Especially with like being vulnerable. Like if they're like rude like, Jeanine, tell me what's going on? And like they're really pressing. I don't like talking about it because I feel like I'm giving up parts of myself. But I'll say a little two cents about it if that's what you want to hear friend.
Hamsata Mazou 12:33
What about you Hamsata?
Jeanine Ikekhua 12:44
Me, Hamsata. That's what it's giving, giving? Yeah, living my best life with these headphones.
Hamsata Mazou 12:54
I'm the only one that got headphones on right now.
Alexis Grant 12:56
Yeah.
Hamsata Mazou 12:57
I like forgot what the question was.
Alexis Grant 13:03
Do you let your friends walk over boundaries you don't let other people walk over to the point of like your personal boundaries/
Hamsata Mazou 13:08
Feel like there was a question before, I think I was like the part two but what, oh but if you want me to answer that one one more time because I disregarded. I'm lying. I don't remember.
Alexis Grant 13:28
Okay. What boundaries do your friends need to cross, for them to not be your friend anymore?
Hamsata Mazou 13:38
That's good.
Jeanine Ikekhua 13:48
I said ain't no way.
Hamsata Mazou 13:51
boundaries that my friends crossed, that'll make me not be friends with them no more, right? Um, see, like, let's piggyback on the previous question like boundaries that I set with my friends, right? I feel like for me, it's never something I've been like too intentional about, I feel like my friends kind of test the waters and kind of test the waters with each other. I mean, should we have conversations about barriers and boundaries? Probably but like that's never been established thing within friendships. It's kind of been more so you kind of present things and somebody doesn't feel comfortable with it. You recognize that, you apologize. And then like you like step back. Yeah. Because I feel like also we all know that we don't know each other that well so if we do something that makes somebody uncomfortable just like let them know you felt uncomfortable if they didn't know that already.
Alexis Grant 14:36
What they did and they just walked over your boundaries?
Hamsata Mazou 14:38
well, like somebody can't know if you don't let them know like, everybody.
Alexis Grant 14:41
But I'm saying but if they know
Hamsata Mazou 14:42
oh if they know.
Alexis Grant 14:43
like a friend friend
Jeanine Ikekhua 14:44
Yeah.
Hamsata Mazou 14:47
Oh, I'm just saying like, Oh, I was going to the back question but like, Yeah, cuz I did say backtrack. But like if a friend friend like if they walked over a boundary that was established, that was established,
Alexis Grant 14:58
how are you gonna go about like, first of all, Are you going to end the friendship?
Hamsata Mazou 15:01
It depends what boundary got crossed. Like, you know what I mean? I might like to.
Alexis Grant 15:06
Your boundaries have a hierarchy.
Hamsata Mazou 15:08
Yeah. So like some things are just like, okay, whatever but like I think it also depends on repetitiveness of it. But something that small beats you doing it frequently that you don't
Jeanine Ikekhua 15:18
small, like don't like come in my room or something
Hamsata Mazou 15:22
that's kind of big for me, I like my room a lot. Let's just say hmm, this is not really a rollin, oh okay, go ahead.
Alexis Grant 15:34
I don't like people using the R word around me.
Hamsata Mazou 15:37
Oh, that's unacceptable actually. To me. No, because after my cousin.
Jeanine Ikekhua 15:41
What's the R word
Alexis Grant 15:42
Girl, I could type it but I'm not
Jeanine Ikekhua 15:46
because I'm like, what's the R word
Alexis Grant 15:46
I'm not gonna say it. People like to call it special needs people.
Hamsata Mazou 15:50
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
Jeanine Ikekhua 15:51
I don't
Hamsata Mazou 15:52
Oh, you don't still not getting it. Okay. I could type it for you. I just don't. Yeah, definitely. No, because I'm like, what? Because my cousin is like, autistic Right? and stuff like that.
Jeanine Ikekhua 16:01
What R word?
Hamsata Mazou 16:02
this one.
Jeanine Ikekhua 16:03
Oh, I don't like that word.
Hamsata Mazou 16:06
So like.
Jeanine Ikekhua 16:07
Or stupid. I don't like when people well, that's kind of small. But I still don't like when people like, Oh my God, he's so stupid. I like, damn.
Hamsata Mazou 16:13
don't ever call me. I can call myself that, but.
Jeanine Ikekhua 16:16
Don't do it to me, but back to Yeah,
Hamsata Mazou 16:18
I feel like if anything, I might playfully say like, I don't know. I might say like, I was like, you know that joke of like, Oh, are you dumb? But like you say it in the special voice. Like that may be.
Alexis Grant 16:28
special voice.
Hamsata Mazou 16:30
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like that. Like, you know, that's strictly playful and never like, I'm calling you like that. But like stupid. No, like.
Jeanine Ikekhua 16:40
Especially arguments Oh, my God.
Hamsata Mazou 16:42
But I think that's kind of serious. Maybe I gotta rethink.
Alexis Grant 16:44
I don't like when my friends call themselves stupid. I'll be like, You're not stupid. Don't say that.
Hamsata Mazou 16:47
That's something I've been unlearning. I've definitely been like calling myself that a lot. And I'm like girl. If you speak that, I guess you believe it. No, we gotta stop saying it.
Alexis Grant 16:57
But no, the R word. Like, just because I'm more lenient with it sometimes. Because some people grew up, like they grew up with that word in their vocabulary. And they didn't learn till later in life, that is, like, disrespectful or wrong. And then also, it might be because they hang out with people, and it's fine for them. Just don't say it around me. So I understand it. Everybody else you're around. That's what you say. So it might take you like, you might slip up around me a few times. But if I feel like you're just really playing out the word at that point, I feel like you're being disrespectful to me, because you're just not caring about my space. And I wouldn't even necessarily like, I don't know, it's gotten to a point I wouldn't be friends. But I will start spending less time around you or I will just get quiet. Because like, I'm irritated now. And like, because I would say I'm pretty forgiving.
Jeanine Ikekhua 17:48
I think you are too, sometimes to the detriment of you. But that's a whole nother topic.
Alexis Grant 17:53
Yeah. And the other problem with me, like, I'll forgive, and you know how they can be like, I'm gonna forgive. I won't forget but Ima dead the issue.
Jeanine Ikekhua 18:00
Yes. Soon as you, people that love you and support you when it's Beneficial, I'm gonna forgive I won't forget. But Ima dead the issue.
Alexis Grant 18:13
my problem is I be forgiving and forgetting. And I won't remember until.
Jeanine Ikekhua 18:17
Oh God.
Alexis Grant 18:18
That's where my problem comes in. So like, even when it comes to that, like, especially because I'm trying to forgive, and I don't want to hold it against them, especially if I see that they're trying or to accident. I will purposely forget. But then it'll like all the times it's happened for will come up once I forget. And then I start slowly getting picked up. And then eventually it's like, okay, you're disrespecting me at this point. Especially because, and I think the part where I find it so disrespectful. It is such a small thing for you to change. It's such a small action for you to do that will make me significantly happier. So the fact that you just don't care about that, to me
Jeanine Ikekhua 18:58
as a friend, that's crazy. Like, as long as
Alexis Grant 19:01
I see that you're trying it's like but yeah, that's like something there's a few other words that are like that for me, like just don't use that around me. It's okay, use wrong, this that third, don't use it when I'm in your presence. Like little actions like just don't do them.
Jeanine Ikekhua 19:15
Are we just talking about the R word, or just like
Hamsata Mazou 19:17
Just other things, other words,
Alexis Grant 19:19
That's just the only thing I can think of off the top of my head, there's just a few little things here and there. Like I really don't like it really brings out my whole mood. I like I just feel nasty in your presence. I don't want to feel nasty in your presence, we're friends. So I would prefer you to keep that out of our friendship. And if you really can't do that, I just feel like you're not taking me serious as a friend. Because it's things so small that you can easily remember
Hamsata Mazou 19:43
but I would also like to ask like, do you think do you ever tell people why like don't say these things or you just tell them don't say it and that's. Potentially tell them why
Alexis Grant 19:55
the first time I'll just be like, oh, like Can you not say that around me? And if they say it again or like Two more times, whatever I'll be like, hey, like, I really don't like that word, it makes me feel uncomfortable. I'll go through an explanation. Like, one of the schools I went to, it was like, a school for people who couldn't, or like, didn't want to do regular school. And that went anywhere from a lot of people being special needs, which was majority of the clients, out to people who like were either actors or a professional, like training for the Olympics, whatever. So they couldn't do regular school timing, or they were just like, really smart. And they were trying to get ahead fast, whatever it was, but because the majority of the school was for special needs, and like my mom, like she worked for a long time with that demographic, and like, that's what I've been around for a lot of my life. I just find it very personally, like just I just don't want hear, it's disrespectful.
Jeanine Ikekhua 20:45
See, like, here's the thing, right? I don't feel like if they're a friend, I trust them. If they come up to me, and like, they actually take the time to be like, I don't like, I don't like when you use this word like, Could you please not? Not even like, don't ever use this word ever again, ever, ever on anybody? But just like, yeah, just I just yeah, I'm saying, I don't need to hear the why, I take that as it is. I won't say it again. I definitely, I definitely see what you're saying.
Hamsata Mazou 21:15
I was gonna say, because if they knew the why, I feel like, also, no, that's not what I'm trying to say.
Jeanine Ikekhua 21:22
Let's just let you finish, let's just let you finish.
Hamsata Mazou 21:24
I was gonna say if they know the why I feel like they could also take it upon themselves to just remove that word from the irvocabulary not only around you, but just in general. And I feel like if you know a why about something, somebody feels strongly against it. I guess also, like, you could say, oh, I won't use it around you. But I think if you really like had a valid reason, I felt like, for that, for example, like the R word. I feel like let's say I was an avid user of it. And you told me that I would just never use that word again. And I feel like if you still use it after me telling you said story, I feel like I also just couldn't associate myself with you after that. Do you know what I mean?
Alexis Grant 21:56
I do. But I just don't feel that way. Because if it's not around me, I don't know.
Hamsata Mazou 22:00
I mean, yeah, but like, I'm just saying like, Yeah, that's true. If it's around you, you don't know.
Alexis Grant 22:05
I don't know, that's why I feel like it's so small to like, I'm not asking for much. I'm not asking you to completely put out. I just don't want it around me.
Hamsata Mazou 22:12
Yeah. You would never know. But if I ever found out.
Alexis Grant 22:16
Oh, are you active user might even like a little spill there?
Hamsata Mazou 22:20
I mean, even that's probably Yeah, yes. But that's why I was just asking for the why just to see like, yeah.
Alexis Grant 22:27
Do you have different like, what different boundaries do you have set for your black friends versus your minority friends versus your white friends?
Jeanine Ikekhua 22:40
I don't want to be racist, right.
Alexis Grant 22:42
Okay.
Hamsata Mazou 22:45
Black people can't be racist.
Alexis Grant 22:47
I don't think black people can be racist. I think they can be extremely prejudiced. And I think a lot of times people like to interchange actions that are prejudiced and racist. Because there are a lot of actions that can be both but those are still two different things. So black people can, in my opinion, be prejudiced because of race, but not racist, because there's nothing backing that up institutionalizing it. And I feel like-
Hamsata Mazou 23:10
I agree
Alexis Grant 23:10
-great example of that. There is a study is basically like, you know, there's that whole stigma of a black man walking down the street and a white woman clutching her purse. People see that and they understand what's going on. Whether they're racist or not. If they're not racist, they're like, oh, that lady is being racist because he's black. They think that he's gonna steal whatever. You're racist, you think, okay, there's a good chance because he's black. He's gonna steal. That's racist and prejudiced. To me. The difference is prejudice. If a white man was walking down the street and a black woman clutched her purse, people just be like, what? You see what I'm saying? It's a completely different dynamic. Same actions, but completely different dynamic and that situation, you're being prejudiced. You clutching a person, because you don't want the white person steal, yes, you're being prejudiced. And it's based on race, but it's not racist. There's nothing fundamentally behind that.
Hamsata Mazou 24:01
Yeah, I agree. No, I definitely like had a, not a debate but I guess more of a debacle of this, like, I remember at first before I knew these things, like being prejudiced and stuff. I definitely thought you could be but then when she broke it down and stuff, I was like, Yeah, I see why people say, black people can't be like, racist or like stuff, but like, do you need, sorry, I did. I didn't.
Jeanine Ikekhua 24:21
You know, it's not a big deal. I was just thinking, I was just gonna say like, like, I agree. But I also, I feel like sometimes like certain people, I've heard certain people, like, they'll use that as an excuse to like, say racist things. I feel like
Alexis Grant 24:34
see to me they're not saying racist, racist things.
Jeanine Ikekhua 24:36
but it's still not okay.
Alexis Grant 24:38
And I think what part of the problem is people like to think that racism is worse than prejudice
Jeanine Ikekhua 24:44
I draw my line as it's still not okay.
Alexis Grant 24:46
Oh, yeah. I feel like what you're talking about, like, I agree, people will use that as an excuse
Jeanine Ikekhua 24:52
Like, you're not gonna say a racial slur to another ethnic group or another.
Alexis Grant 24:56
Yeah, that's never okay.
Jeanine Ikekhua 24:57
And be like, I'm black. It's okay. I'm thinking of black people and white people. I agree. When it comes to black versus white, which, we believe in equality, but there is no such thing as equality, equity.
Alexis Grant 25:18
Yeah. Because in that sense, because that's the thing. That's another thing because people like to think that just because it's not racist, what they're saying in this advert about white people or to white people is not as bad. And on an individual basis, to me, it can be just as bad, if not worse, there are certain situations that might be racist, but the prejudice, that in turn can be much worse.
Hamsata Mazou 25:41
Oh, for sure. I agree.
Alexis Grant 25:43
We just want to automatically assume that prejudice starts at a level eight, and then racism might start at a two but it goes all the way up to 10. No, I think they can both go to a 10.
Jeanine Ikekhua 25:50
I also feel like when white people are in the mix, like, no offense, but when it comes to like talking about racist things. I don't think there's anything that in my opinion, there might be, I may have not considered it. But from my experience, I don't feel like, I can't imagine a black person doing something that's classified as racist to a white person, that's actually gonna make a significantly big impact and make them either oppressed or anything of that sorts. In terms like, it's gonna affect the.
Alexis Grant 26:23
Equality feels like oppression for those who are benefiting from it.
Jeanine Ikekhua 26:28
Yeah, essentially, that. I'm not saying that you should go out there and be racist, not racist, but should go out there and be prejudiced towards other, towards white people. I'm just saying that we need to acknowledge the fact that like what they can do to us, it's 10 times more harmful, not just on us, like mentally, but like, literally on our lives in our system. Yeah, that what we could do them.
Alexis Grant 26:51
versus our actions are just more personalized, and it's more one on one versus it being an institute and having history stuff. There's history behind this. Yeah, whatever. Whatever. Right.
Hamsata Mazou 27:03
Well, yeah, let's get back to boundaries.
Jeanine Ikekhua 27:05
Yeah, I don't know how we got here? oh, a question,
Hamsata Mazou 27:08
because I asked about them different boundaries. And you said not to be racist? And I was like, let me.
Jeanine Ikekhua 27:12
Oh, yeah. Back to what I said, yeah. Um, I think I have one white friend that I would consider an actual friend. Everybody's treated the same. But I just think I'm more closer towards black people, because there's an understanding there.
Alexis Grant 27:32
So what boundaries, do you feel like there's any different boundaries you're set?
Jeanine Ikekhua 27:37
Um, if I'm, I won't talk about racial interactions with my white friends. And the only reason is because number one, I don't want to have to explain too much. Because I mean, especially when, I'm talking my my racial encounters, I don't want to have to explain too much. Because number one, like, I already go through it so much, because we're in the United States. I'm not sitting down to be like, let me break it down to you, sweetie. Like, no, I just want to be understood and we just move on from that. So there are certain conversations that I will not have. And also there are certain conversations about being an immigrant that I will not have with non immigrants.
Alexis Grant 28:12
That's fair.
Jeanine Ikekhua 28:15
I probably have boundaries and conversation but other than that, no like y'all y'all chillin.
Alexis Grant 28:19
What about for black friends versus your other minority friends? Who are not black.
Jeanine Ikekhua 28:24
Same thing to me, if you're not black then, respectful but like, if you're not black then like, you're, you're not. I stick by Native American.
Alexis Grant 28:43
What is it? BiPOC?
Jeanine Ikekhua 28:45
Yeah, I'm more partial towards black people. Yes, yes. And dark skinned Indians. It's so specific, but I am more partial towards brown people, Native Americans, black people, Indians.
Alexis Grant 29:06
The brown-
Jeanine Ikekhua 29:07
South Asians. South East. Oh, that's not. But um, yeah, just brown people, I'm more partial towards them. And then within that I'm more partial towards black people.
Alexis Grant 29:19
I definitely have certain, and it's not even always on purpose. It's just like, literally how I feel just like, like you said, there's certain situations conversations blase, blase, blase, I'm not going to have with my non black friends. And there's a lot of conversations that I'm not going to have with my non minority friends, because I do have a lot of friends that are minorities that aren't specifically black. And like I can have, I feel more comfortable having like, what you talked about, explaining certain things to them. And I feel like it doesn't take me as much because a lot of times though, not necessarily that it's the same thing, but they'll have comparisons within their own. You'll have situations like that. I'm like, I'll even talk about like, oh my gosh, me and um, my best, my best friend. Yes, but I can't even remember what it is. I wish I could because it was so funny. But I made some comparison joke between strangers touching my black hair and oh, and people like touching her hijab. And like, just that, like, obviously it's not exact same thing,
Jeanine Ikekhua 30:20
yeah.
Alexis Grant 30:20
But it's an understanding of like, somebody has just crossed the personal boundary around your face. And so like, it's just easier to explain certain things just because even though it's not the same thing, there's comparisons, and there's some things that are understood, even though they are not the exact same.
Jeanine Ikekhua 30:36
Yeah, I can't imagine like what the comparison would be with somebody who's not a person of color. Like you touch my hair I touch yours.
Alexis Grant 30:49
Again, there's a history behind it like,
Jeanine Ikekhua 30:52
yeah,
Alexis Grant 30:53
like me going out and touching some strange white lady's hair. I'm gonna look like a villain. I'm the bad guy, either they're not gonna care, or they're gonna be like, Oh my gosh, this black girl is touching me.
Alexis Grant 31:04
She's acting weird.
Jeanine Ikekhua 31:06
are those braids. Yes girl they're braids. Let them go.
Alexis Grant 31:10
Because I was, I was leaving church this one time, I had long like to my butt small knotless braids. I feel something, like I feel my hair lifting. I can feel my hair lifted. I think sometimes. Stuff like that. I think my hair got caught on the door handle. I turned around it as it turned around. I watch my hair slip out of this white woman's hands.
Jeanine Ikekhua 31:33
That is insane.
Alexis Grant 31:35
And I'm looking down at her head. And we both looking down at her hand. She looks up at me and she just smiles.
Hamsata Mazou 31:39
Girl what.
Alexis Grant 31:41
She smiled at me. And I did not know what to do. Because I was like, I cannot go off on this strange white lady in this white church. I'm gonna look, the three black, the three black families that go here, I'm gonna make them all look bad.
Jeanine Ikekhua 31:51
I would have picked my headphones, swung at her face. You wanna touch it. Touch it now,
Alexis Grant 31:55
I can't even get mad because a black lady. And then I make all the black people look bad, because especially because of minorities. The one represents the all.
Jeanine Ikekhua 32:02
No for sure. Which is crazy to me like
Alexis Grant 32:05
white people, it's not quite the same. And I don't know if part of it is probably because we're in the US. And its majority white. And like power, this that the third. But a lot of times, like even within white spaces, like one white person does, doing something. They never think of it representing their whole.
Jeanine Ikekhua 32:25
White people are thought of as individuals, but for some reason, black people are thought of as like.
Alexis Grant 32:28
Minorities are not. We are apparently a monolith. We are not a monolith.
Hamsata Mazou 32:34
Black people are not a what?
Alexis Grant 32:36
monolith.
Hamsata Mazou 32:37
Okay,
Alexis Grant 32:37
Because what are we talking about? We're all individual people. We have a shared experience that you may not understand, that does not make us the same person. Just because you and your best friend like chocolate cake. Doesn't mean y'all the same person, y'all feel me? Are we understanding each other?
Jeanine Ikekhua 32:43
And black. There is more to black than actual black. Does that make sense?
Alexis Grant 32:59
Because of how the world is treating us as a whole, it has its own home culture this that the third? That does not mean we're the same.
Jeanine Ikekhua 33:08
That's crazy to me, like shut up. Like, be quiet. Don't think that.
Alexis Grant 33:12
That's like there's certain conversations I'm not going to have with my white friends. And there's certain conversations, I probably won't have my minority friends, I would just tell my black friends, even black people who are strangers, just because again, like you said, they're just gonna get it. You don't want to have to explain it. But it's sometimes it's hard because sometimes it's like, when it comes to my friends who aren't black, I will go out of my way to explain it because I want them to understand. Yeah,
Jeanine Ikekhua 33:35
it also depends on the level of friendship like the one boyfriend that I have. Like, although there are certain things I want to talk about. I'm more willing to explain things to her than like just a random white person I just met.
Alexis Grant 33:46
Like I have this friend. She's mixed with black, white and Hispanic, for the most part to me. Like I get Yes, okay. She's white passing, but I never thought she was white. I didn't think she was black. Even though I didn't know she had to brighten her cheek or something. She was Hispanic to me. Like she didn't look Hispanic to me. She looked maybe white and Hispanic. But she definitely like she didn't look like a white lady to me. To the majority of people she looks like a white lady.
Hamsata Mazou 34:11
They say I'm sorry, I mean a button when but like they usually say like black people can like tell like if somebody's like mixed with something like we can spot that more people. So like that kind of makes sense to me as to why like you could spot like another ethnic group and her other than, like white that she's being perceived by everybody else.
Alexis Grant 34:28
Yeah. But she's like, we'll have a lot of racially based and ethnic based conversations because of her unique experience of not only being white passing, but having like growing up with like a black mom, like she has like black mom growing up experiences, but she also has, like her Hispanic heritage, but she's also being ostracized by every single group she's in. But because she gets to ostracize from them, she doesn't know certain nuances. So there are certain black nuances I've explained to her. Mm She doesn't get or she doesn't see. Because either black people just either completely disregarded her altogether. Or just because she is white passing. She has never experienced them at all. And even when she's like people know she's a minority, they just see her as mixed in. I even like, black just just mix. She's just a mix. Yeah. Make sense?
Hamsata Mazou 35:29
Okay, so my perspective on the boundaries, right? I think for me, I definitely like do have like those types of conversations with people who like white friends and stuff. But it's not like any white friends definitely like somebody I'm really close to. Like for me friendships like they kind of come and go. That's how I can see them.
Jeanine Ikekhua 35:51
Not us.
Hamsata Mazou 35:53
Not definitely not you guys. Hopefully
Alexis Grant 35:55
we never leave. Hey, we came in we never left. Can we never left we came in we never left. Yeah, I'm not gonna let her talk to you. Great. You
Jeanine Ikekhua 36:06
don't want to be friends. Go ahead and speak up right now.
Alexis Grant 36:11
ever again. So would you not even squeezing your arm anymore? You miss the legs. You don't say that? They hug you in kinda right now. I'm sort of holding on to Johnny's arm for dear life and started patting it off. Janine spattered it off.
Hamsata Mazou 36:31
Know. I want to hold your arm in this moment. So we're gonna hold your arm. Okay, keep going. Oh, hell don't do me
Jeanine Ikekhua 36:49
I squeezed that sounds so bad. I touched that sounds so bad. I never thought we
Hamsata Mazou 36:58
were friends. We friends. But yeah, so like, within that friendship, although we're not like necessarily like close friends anymore. This is still completed. I'm like, Okay, we'll be good. You need to be consistent. And we're not here. Yeah, so we're not good. But they're still a great friend. Like, you know, like, I feel like the moments we shared and stuff. Oh, blah, blah. Anyways, we definitely like kind of conversation about like colorism and stuff like that. And like, there was times where like, she was like, unaware of things. And I explained it to her. But it wasn't in like, I don't know, I really enjoyed the conversation. And she was appreciative of that conversation as well. So but it wasn't anything my personal experience, you know, like our personal things, definitely, I'm reserving that for people who have our mind in any group, or can relate to that experience, just because that's like more personal and more like sensitive and like intimate and stuff like that. And I just don't feel like explain to somebody who I have to already, like, adjust the learning curve for before they even get to the point and really understand the like, fruit of the situation. Like I don't have time for that. But like other conversations, yeah, I like having like deep, like societal conversations, whether that be about race or like economic class, and blah, blah, blah. So like with somebody else who may not like necessarily fit that. I'm fine with, like, explaining things and having that conversation. It's just more so how personal is this to me? And how close is that person to me to have said conversations. That's how I view it. And those boundaries.
Alexis Grant 38:21
And also I want to say this is goes for black people, and people in specific like Black ethnic groups blase blase. Talking to other minorities and people from other places. It is still also our duty to do our own research, just because we're black. And we're often put on the other side of the spectrum as white and the most opposed thing. That does not mean we don't have to learn about other people's cultures. So 100% Native
Jeanine Ikekhua 38:51
Americans, I keep on saying Native Americans because I think it's important. Yeah, yeah, Native Americans. I'm gonna keep on saying Americans because to this day, to this day, I cannot wrap my head around like what they did the White people did to what Native Americans I know, I said on my chest, because Go ahead. I'm mad. Oh, gosh, I'm that mad. Understand? I don't know maybe this is
Alexis Grant 39:23
just in my head. But there's a strange connection that black people have with like Native Americans like in a good way. Not a bad Oh, no, I think more than any other, like, ethnic group.
Hamsata Mazou 39:34
I feel because we kind of went through the same thing. Yeah.
Jeanine Ikekhua 39:38
I'm gonna compare it I think I do
Hamsata Mazou 39:41
not compare but I'm just saying like, there's some similarities with our histories. Not necessarily comparison, but you know,
Jeanine Ikekhua 39:47
I think the reason why I stand so firmly behind them is because like, I feel like everybody gets Yeah, and they get off They like the disrespect and that is still here to this day like the disrespect is just like it's not
Hamsata Mazou 40:09
nothing crazy. Nothing has ever like repaired. I mean, not It's not repairable damage period.
Jeanine Ikekhua 40:15
And that's why
Hamsata Mazou 40:16
Yeah, they made to even like no reparations.
Jeanine Ikekhua 40:19
Yeah, and even in like, even in the US like it literally happened in the US. I feel like it's the least talked about, like amongst people. I feel like black people get talked about first when it comes to minorities, and then it's like, oh, okay, let's talk about the Native Americans. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, definitely understand. I feel like their proper time. Yeah, they don't get they don't get the amount of they don't get the conversations that they deserve. And it's just like, oh, Kinston
Alexis Grant 40:45
you know, there's that law that passed. We're in some textbooks, they're just saying that the Native Americans moved west. And they're not calling like, they're not calling it the Trail of Tears anymore.
Jeanine Ikekhua 40:56
Oh, I saw that. Like
Alexis Grant 41:01
they're gonna stop some textbooks. They're gonna stop using the word slavery and they're gonna put like, unpaid workers or something like I'm paid, what does they call it? It turns because they want to soften it but like, okay, instead of softening it, let's just tell it how it is.
Jeanine Ikekhua 41:27
That's what I'm saying. Why didn't that happen? The reality the history,
Alexis Grant 41:30
fairy tales. Most of them just were gruesome. Have you read an original grim fairy tale? That joke is
Hamsata Mazou 41:37
disgusting. I've seen like,
Alexis Grant 41:39
I'm saying like, the kids could handle that. Then why can't they can't handle the word slavery now?
Jeanine Ikekhua 41:45
I don't care about what I don't
Hamsata Mazou 41:48
think they can't handle it. First of all, what does take care
Jeanine Ikekhua 41:51
about what you can handle, not handle? I don't care. It's history. It happened. The way the same way that y'all took so much energy to make these things happen is the same energy that you need to put towards making sure people know what happens. I'm trying to stop the things I'm trying to show because
Hamsata Mazou 42:09
actually, it was like actuality, like now, people are gonna be like, Oh, what happened to your people wasn't that bad? bags like they were just walking for fun. And then like, let's say their families have like their rendition of stories and stuff and they tell him exactly, and they don't have the facts there to prove what actually occurred during those types of textbooks one out here omitting
Jeanine Ikekhua 42:36
by weight distributed by white
Transcribed by https://otter.ai