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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
Ep. #197: Interview w/ Casa Carrillo's Lissette Perez-Carrillo (w/ Perez-Carrillo Encore Black Robusto & Southern Star Paragon Bourbon, Women in Cigar Industry, Casa Carrillo Blending, Brûlée Debate Continues & What Makes a Cigar Great?)
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Gizmo: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica five. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster Senator Grinder, and bam bam.
And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some bourbon, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 197th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. We plan to meet this here once a week. We're gonna smoke a new world cigar tonight. Share our thoughts on it and give you our formal dis.
Great. We share our interview with Casa Castillo's, co-owner Lisette Perez. Carillo recorded at PCA 2025 where we discussed the recent change, the company's name, the impact of her father's legacy and their plans for the future, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and joy as we pair Southern Star Paragon Single Barrel Kentucky Straight bourbon whiskey with the Pic [00:01:00] Cardillo Encore, black in Robo.
A Robusto from the Dominican Republic tonight on the pod from E Cillo. It's called the Encore Black, and it's a 52 ring gauge re robusto by five and three eighths inches long. And boys, not only is this our fifth ep Cillo on the pod tonight, this is I think the fifth line from E Cillo that we're doing.
Yeah. So we're gonna try this one and of course we're gonna cut in an interview that we did with Lisette Perez Carillo. That's correct. At PCA's as I remove this two inch tall foot band. There is quite a foot band on this thing. It's black, of course, aligning with the name of the cigar. Quite a
Bam Bam: dark finished cigar here.
Very dark. Is this a Maduro? This a Maduro, yeah.
Gizmo: This is a Connecticut broadleaf Maduro. Extremely rustic finish. Very rustic. Yeah. I can understand why they're putting the foot band on this Yeah.
Grinder: To cover
Gizmo: up, you know, to make it look. Well, you know, I mean unfortunately the eye is what it makes your decision when [00:02:00] course you're at the retail store.
So I think covering it up is smart.
Grinder: You have to, you have to admit that the aroma on this wrapper's delicious. Was, I was telling the guys earlier, I have a dent in my cigar.
Gizmo: Ah,
Grinder: it's nice. Like a notch, like it looks like a, like it got run over. Oh, it looks like a little curve. Car trucks. It's got peroni's disease.
Bam Bam: You know where I'm going? It's got a little poni. Have to get that in a pump.
Gizmo: Alright boys, let's cut this thing. See what we're getting on the cold draw and the wrapper. It's funny, we've been doing retos, but you know, when I think of a classic re robusto, of course I'm thinking the Cuban size 50 by five inches.
This is 52 by five and three eighths. Dude, we've been doing some big retos. So
Bam Bam: chocolate Curt, cherry on the cold draw. Hmm. Oh, that's actually, that's actually a great, great. That's what I'm getting. A great pin. That's really nice. I'm getting a little, definitely coffee. Yeah. Coffee, chocolate. A fruit of some kind.
Mm-hmm. Little saltiness. Could be cherry or raspberry. The draw is [00:03:00] wide open. Too open.
Gizmo: Mine's a little resistant. Really open, right? Holy cow. Mine's all right.
Rooster: Yeah, this is sweet. Mine's like really open. I
Grinder: took a little off. Very flavorful, very sweet. Very little. Sweet Tobacco. It's like some red man.
Bam Bam: Hope it's all natural.
Gizmo: Alright boys, let's light this thing. The ep, Carillo Encore Black from Casa Carillo. We'll talk about their name change tonight
Bam Bam: as Senator Welt Steele.
Oh
Gizmo: wow. Definitely full flavor on the light. I don't find it to be harsh in any way yet. No, no harshness. Yeah. I actually really like this. It's full of flavor, but not super full or aggressive in any way. No, I just mean it's like it's a really rich
Bam Bam: Yeah, it's rich.
Gizmo: It's full mouth covering flavor. It's
Bam Bam: satisfying
Gizmo: to me.
It's co, it's like hitting every area of the tongue right on the tip.
Rooster: There's something that's that. Right. Just the tip
[00:04:00] on the tip of the tongue. I, I think you're right though. I tried to use that line the other night.
Senator: We're falling apart early tonight. Boys.
Grinder: Big tip guy. I mean, definitely some kind of peppercorn, but like a, not like a pepper bomb peppercorn, but just like a fresh cracked, you know, black pepper.
Bam Bam: Yeah, that I can see that with a little bit of dark, dark chocolate and some fruit.
Yep. Pretty nice.
Gizmo: I like the little bit of saltiness I'm getting here. I get that. It's true. It's almost like you have, um, I, I know you said chocolate covered cherry on the, the cold draw cold. Mm-hmm. Here it's almost like a chocolate covered, like espresso bean or something. Coffee. Yeah.
Senator: Yeah, that's, I think that's, that's right.
That was what popped in my head. The first Yep. Puff of this.
Gizmo: And I almost wanna say, you know, those, um, I think they sell 'em at Costco Rooster. You would know this. I wouldn't know. You wouldn't know. It's the, uh, they sell these like dark raspberries covered in dark chocolate. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What aisle [00:05:00] rooster?
Rooster: Uh, I don't know what aisle, but, uh, what, you know where it is in the store? What is that call? One of the partners? What you
Gizmo: Brookside or something?
Rooster: Brookside. Brookside.
Gizmo: Brookside. It's, it's, it's pomegranate. Pomegranate. It's pomegranate. That's Itmate. Wow. It's like a chocolate covered pomegranate and a chocolate covered espresso bean.
I didn't even, that's kind of where I'm at. Such a thing. I'm really liking this on the light here. Yeah, that's good. I haven't retroed yet though.
Bam Bam: Hesitating.
Senator: There was actually someone I think Bam and I met at PCA who had a business that was like chocolate covered, like blueberries and Oh yes. You remember that?
Yes. I think it's made in like Costa Rica somewhere. Did we sample? Oh yeah, sample. They were delicious. Sample everyone for about an hour. They were delicious.
Bam Bam: You were over at that booth? I don't remember. For about an hour. Must have been some pretty good stuff.
Gizmo: Very good. Uh, chocolate covered fruit software.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Senator: Very good conversation too. Nice.
Gizmo: Actually, that was right across from the, uh, stoic booth. That's right.
Bam Bam: Ah, yes, just retro head. It's, it's [00:06:00] excellent. It's not harsh at all. This is a good stick, guys. Correct? I really like this. I'm really impressed with this. Did you just retro?
Gizmo: I did And excellent.
It's very smooth. Yeah. And I was expecting more pepper through the nose. None. There's no pepper.
Bam Bam: You actually get everything else but the pepper,
Grinder: it's like a sweet smoothness on the retro.
Rooster: Yeah. It's even got a little creaminess, like creamy. Sweet. This is shocking. I'm, I'm really
Grinder: loving the cigar. I'm not that it's a Maduro, Connecticut broadleaf.
It's got, it's gonna, it's gonna have some of that.
Senator: Wow. The thing I'm shocked by, I think GIZ said this, uh, a moment ago. It's rare to me that a Maduro hits like every single part of your palate. Correct. Right. Like a Maduro is either like cocoa forward and sweet, or it's earthy. It's rare that you're getting like saltiness, some sweetness, some creaminess.
It's a very
Bam Bam: balanced experience on the palette, which is unusual and complex. Yeah. Very complex. And that smoothest on a retro hale, that is a [00:07:00] test for a cigar that looks like this.
Senator: And I say complex with surprise because you know, we love an exi, but I don't think any of us has ever suggested it's like a overly complex cigar.
You know, it's pretty straightforward, but we just love what it delivers.
Bam Bam: Oh yeah.
Senator: There's real complexity to this. I know this might, oh, that's the note. I was, I was trying to think of spice. Ah, grind was talking about the pepper corn. So like, it's rare that you're getting like spice, true sweetness. Um, some savory notes like the saltiness, uh, it just brings everything you kind of want in a cigar all together.
Ted,
Bam Bam: you do it so well. What do you, what are you getting on the,
all of, all of the above. No really. You're an aroma guy. I wanna
Rooster: big aroma guy. As he puts this, the end to his nose, there's like a barnyard, you know. No,
Grinder: there is an earthiness. It's earth. [00:08:00] I do. Correct. There is an earthiness. Uh, I wouldn't, I wouldn't call it Petco though. No, no, definitely not.
Rooster: But it's complimented with that creaminess that there's a sweet note that coffee and a little bit of fruit that all comes through.
Bam Bam: It's delicious. And honestly, the burn line's not too bad.
Gizmo: No. You know, I, like I said on the light when we were kind of joking about the foot band, 'cause I know we kind of rail on foot bands, but honestly if I'm uh, the Casa Carillo company, if I'm putting the cigar together, I understand completely why they put that foot band on there.
'cause it smokes like this, which is excellent so far. Mm-hmm. Is performing really well, but it just unfortunately doesn't look great. 'cause that I guess is the,
Bam Bam: yeah.
Gizmo: The unfortunate na nature of the wrapper. While it tastes good, it doesn't look good. So I really understand putting the foot band on there just to, how, how much
Bam Bam: was this cigar?
Gizmo: So these cigars are normally around 16, 17. We got them for 14 and they come in boxes of 10. So this box was like [00:09:00] 1 43
Bam Bam: bucks. Little, little on the higher side. Yeah. Not super, super affordable for gen pop, but not too bad.
Senator: You can edit down. I, I'm also just surprised at that price point that, you know, these, the construction or the wrappers on these can't be a little bit better.
You, you shouldn't need a footman on a $16 smoke. I agree. I agree.
Bam Bam: But it is
Senator: quite good. It is. That's lot that's surprising to me is, you know, that they chose to use the word encore. 'cause they obviously have the traditional encore line and that's like a very light, mild, medium smoke. This is the complete opposite of that.
But I guess maybe some of the similarity, like for all the flavor this is delivering, it's super smooth. Oh yeah. And that encore line is like just very easygoing. Um, so I don't know if that's meant to reflect the blending style. I don't know if they say anything about why they included the encore name with this.
Gizmo: Well, I think the Encore was a very successful cigar for them. So I think kind of stepping that up in, you [00:10:00] know, making it a little bit more bold. Mm-hmm. You know, moving the strength profile up a little bit. Which I think they've, they've done certainly have. Oh yeah. That was the way, way more than a little bit.
Sure.
Bam Bam: This
Gizmo: is a lot. Yeah. But in a beautiful, elegant way. So let's talk about the makeup of the Cigar Boys. Like I said, the wrapper is Connecticut Broadleaf Maduro. The binder is from Mexico in the San Andres Valley. And the filler is all from Nicaragua, conga, ESLI, and Hapa. And I'm, again, I'm surprised we've had cigars with very similar makeup that definitely have a little bit more oomph to them.
Aren't as complex, aren't as interesting. So to take those five tobaccos that make up this cigar and come up with this profile, this is really, really good so far. And I think for our listeners out there who are looking for a more bold expression out of the Dominican Republic mm-hmm. With a touch of Nicaragua in it, this is perfect for them.
Yeah.
Bam Bam: I love the copper and black band. Yeah. The band is cool.
Grinder: [00:11:00] Yeah. It's, I like the colors unique, that it's
Rooster: very
Grinder: unique. Yeah. I think the box was, was a It's a nice box.
Gizmo: Yeah. So the box, uh, good point here. Uh, grinder, the box is a 10 count box and bam. How would you describe this box? You're better at this than me.
Bam Bam: Well, it's got a black top. It looks like it's some sort of walnut base and, um, interior looks like it's maple and they, or also of some kind individual coffins for, for each little slots. Beautiful. Yep. Yeah,
Rooster: yeah. Looks. So if you had to make this box, how much work
Bam Bam: is that revenge for Roosted?
Gizmo: How
Grinder: that,
Gizmo: so what I like too, uh, actually Rooster saw this.
We're looking at the box date stamp on it. Yeah. They have a, a date stamp. Oh, that's cool. On the bottom. Very cool. So this box was manufactured in November of 2024. It's a smart move at the Casa Carillo Cigar Factory in Dominican Republic. Yeah, it's a good touch. So, like I said, this cigar is released in bits and pieces.
This is a limited release. I think they're only [00:12:00] making five or 10,000 cigars at, at, at a time. They come out in spurts. It's not a regular production that you're seeing all the time. Definitely a little bit more limited, which I think, you know, lends to the price point that they're asking for. Is this their highest priced cigar
Rooster: or there anything else?
Gizmo: I would think in the robusto size, I would think this is probably on the highest end. Mm. When did you say this first came out? This was launched Black Friday 2023 in a limited, and it kind of came out right around PCA 2024. Okay.
Grinder: I'm surprised there's not more attention to this. 'cause this is phenomenal.
Same, you
Gizmo: know, why is I, I think it's because it's limited. It's one ola. Yeah. As of, you know, actually they're rolling out a second vila now. We'll talk about that in a second. But for the last year and a half, it's only been this ola, there's no other Ola. So there, you know, the encore line has four or five or six.
Every, every line has, you know, multiple cigars. Right now, this is the only one and they're rolling out a second one as we speak. Nice.
Senator: The aroma in here is amazing as well. [00:13:00] I mean, we're early into this cigar, but if, if this holds up, I, I don't understand why they wouldn't try to make this a standard production cigar.
This will be one of the best EP chorea or Casa Caro cigars we've probably smoked. I have no doubt that he's a hundred percent
Bam Bam: correct. The aroma on this is almost like it's a potpourri style. It's really, really good. And I don't get that on the retro or the traditional draw.
Gizmo: Lisette who, uh, like I said, we're gonna cut into her interview from PCA in a little bit, just announced the Encore Black Bulwarks, which is a perfecto 58 ring gauge by six inches long.
So it's the same blend as this, what's it called? Bulwark. Bulwarks, B-U-L-W-A-R-K-S. And that's what it looks like right there next to the cigar that we're smoking. The name flows off the tongue.
Rooster: I think they're kind of going after the Padron idiot. Yeah, it kinda looks like that. It [00:14:00] does, yeah. No foot
Gizmo: band on that one.
No foot band there.
Bam Bam: Bulwark. But a
Gizmo: but a 58 Ring Gate Perfecto. That's pretty, uh, that's pretty big.
Bam Bam: Yeah,
Gizmo: it's even the mouthfeel on that I would think is gonna be a pretty, that's gonna be a pretty big cigar. So the encore line. Was launched in 2016, which was a Nicaraguan pirro. So what's funny about this is even though the encore line, I think strength wise is a little bit lighter, it's all Nicaraguan.
Mm-hmm. Whereas this, this profile is a little, has a little bit more oomph. Sorry,
Senator: I just wanna be clear. It is a lot lighter. Like dramatically lighter. Yeah. Oh yeah. That Encore is one of the lightest cigars that they make. Like you could, it's, it's a morning cigar. Afternoon cigar. Sure. You get like tea notes in it.
It, it's very, very subtle. Easy going. It's subtle. Subtle.
Bam Bam: Exactly. Subtle. But it's interesting. It's an interesting cigar though.
Senator: It is. I still remember the first time I smoked it because there were notes in that, that I really hadn't [00:15:00] gotten. Like the fact that I said tea first. Mm-hmm. I can count on one hand the number of cigars they've ever gotten.
Like a prominent, really prominent tea note right up Pagodas alley. Yeah. And it was very pleasant. Yeah.
Gizmo: So I think the, uh, limitation on these cigars, I forgot to note, is because of the fermentation requirements, these are extended mm-hmm. Uh, in their fermentation, in their aging process, minimum of three years would have to be.
So I think that's limiting, uh, how many of these cigars they're putting out at any given time. Is it on the wrapper you mean? Or the, uh, total blend. There's an 18 month fermentation process, uh, on, on some of the tobaccos in the cigar, and they're aged for a minimum of three years. So that's the reason why they're a limited release coming out of, uh, Casa Carillo.
But I'm
Bam Bam: loving this so far, boys. Yeah. Here's a question. Do we know. If this is the big brother to the Encore, I'm curious what that cigar costs. I don't remember. And if there's gotta be an upcharge for this cigar in comparison,
Gizmo: right? I would think so. I think just because of the fermentation, the aging, yeah.[00:16:00]
You know, I, I think that that cigar is definitely gonna be more budget friendly. I mean, most of their cigars are very budget friendly. Friendly. I think maybe the only one that edges this out is the Pledge of Allegiance.
Bam Bam: Yeah. You know, which 18, which is probably
Gizmo: 18, 19. Somewhere in there. Depending. But if I'm looking at, well then again, that's a Toro, not a Reto.
That's true. That's also
Senator: true. And that comes just one size.
Grinder: Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm having some burn issues. Yeah. That's on burn issues, right? The
Rooster: same. I was gonna, I was gonna ask you guys, but then I looked over 'em like, your cigar is senator's pretty good. I corrected it though.
Senator: So mine half of it was burning faster, faster than the other.
So I had to light the other half to get it to catch up. So I
Bam Bam: think GIZ and I have a pretty good burn line without correction.
Grinder: Correct. Yeah,
Gizmo: because we're not amateurs. Bam. You can see Carl. Carl, so, correct.
Grinder: You can see there's like a, a, a blackish line of more carbon. It might be where there's like a vein running down.
I maybe, I think that's more of
Gizmo: a
Rooster: Bic issue. It
Gizmo: could be the Bic. Correct. It could be the bic. It could be the bic. So I'm looking at the prices of the regular encore line, which like I said was launched in [00:17:00] 2016. The little brother to this one. As far as strength and flavor profile, the rib robusto on this is just around 11 bucks.
Okay. 10, 11 bucks
Bam Bam: and you're at 16 for this guy.
Gizmo: You're around around 16 now this is, makes sense. A little bit bigger. You have another three eighths. On it and mm-hmm. You know, it's a 52 instead of a 50, a normal rib robusto
Bam Bam: grinder. Are you retroing on this thing or what? Isn't it good? It's really, it's freaking smooth.
There is not a rough edge on this yet so far. And the flavor is so nuanced. It's fantastic. Yeah.
Gizmo: So boys, let's talk about some news. We have mentioned this product quite a bit on the podcast. I know all of us, or I think all of us use Cigar Oasis products at home in our humidors, correct? Uh, I have the Magna 3.0.
Same, same
Bam Bam: senator too. So do I
Gizmo: Senator, you have the same one, the Magna 3.0 yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. So all five of us in this room. Do I know that Pagoda does too? Pagoda does, and so does Chef Ricky. 'cause I set that one up his house. [00:18:00] Yeah. So Puah ISS the only one that does it. So we are big Cigar Oasis fans around here.
They're really, really good for our Humidors and Pagodas got the Acme Puah has mentioned several times the Oasis Caliber four, which is their slim digital Hygrometer, which you can get everywhere. You know, it's, it's a very, very popular hygrometer. It comes pre calibrated and it's really reasonably priced.
They've now launched the Caliber, the Caliber five Slim Digital Hygrometer priced at 27 bucks, which is great. What I love about this one is not only does it have an advanced humidity sensor, it's also able to be recalibrated by the user. So if for some reason there is an issue in the calibration, you can, just like any other hygrometer, you could throw it in with a boda and adjust the.
You know, you're giving me a face. Can't you do that with most, not with their stuff. Not prior to this one, because it came pre [00:19:00] calibrated, so it was kind of locked up in the box. Mm-hmm. Uh, but now you can calibrate these, you know, out of the box. Cool. What are they going for now? So, yeah, 27 bucks. Oh, okay.
How many did you buy? I didn't buy any of these yet because I have the, the o you know, cigar oasis in my tower and I also have the Govie. The one thing that these are missing is they don't have the wifi Bluetooth connectivity that I am Ah, gizmo out obsessed with.
Bam Bam: Yeah.
Gizmo: You know, but true people love these.
I know UBA loves these. So, wanted to shout out the Oasis Caliber five. The new release from Cigar Oasis now available in stores. Cool. And you were saying, Senator, that there's another product coming from humidity experts. Boda boda boda put out its first hum door. Ooh. So what does that mean exactly? What does it, is it like a desktop?
Senator: A desktop, humid or
Gizmo: person they've ever made? So, so is it specked that you're buying the 320 gram or that you know it has a slot for that, et cetera? First
Senator: you gotta see it. It's actually a sharp looking [00:20:00] humidor. Oh, that's nice. It's nice. That's really nice. Looks like a shoebox, but it's still nice. Um, it's small.
It's the only thing it holds 50 mm should inside. So the, the inside that, you know, the big boa pack you have at the top on the lid I saw in a video, uh, they have like a magnet. It must be somehow built into the wood. So you just pull that off, slip the pack in, and then just it slaps back on without having to stick.
Like you're a magnet yourself on there like you would with really any other, you know, wooden desktop humidor. Nice.
Gizmo: When you say the big boda, are you talking the one in the box? The three 20? The three 20. That's the, okay. Exactly. Got
Senator: it. Um, but yeah, for their first human order, it looks nice. And, you know, I think the nice thing about it is that for someone that's less experienced with cigars, that wants a first human order to really store their stuff, to not have to go through, you know, uh, wedding a sponge and seasoning it and waiting all this time, like they've got a built in system where, you know, with little to no [00:21:00] effort, you can be ready to go.
So. I think there's a lot of merit to it. What's the MSRP on that 300? Yeah. 2 99.
Bam Bam: Okay.
Gizmo: That's not bad. Not at all. Do we know, like, did they list anything about who's making it? Is there a, you know, there must be a white label thing. I'm hoping. It's certainly a white label thing. Yeah. But I'm hoping that from, you know, if you think about most desktop humidors, the seals are quite imperfect.
Oh yeah. Like if you're buying anything, it's not gonna be rubber gasket or really sealed. Well, I would hope that boda is conscious of that when they're putting this together, that there's some sort of, I don't, I don't see a rubber seal or anything better capture mm-hmm. Of the humidity in the box. Yep.
Because my problem is, is you, if you have a desktop in a high, very high humidity situation, like a lot of folks in the US do, especially in the southeast and the southwest is very dry, but warm and right now, or our low humidity situation, that's also true. Like, if you're not right in the middle, like you live in San Diego where it's perfect all the time, or Cuba, you're gonna have problems.
You're gonna have problems.
Senator: Well, that's the other nice thing with using the boda in this [00:22:00] humidor. I mean, if you, what comes with typically a desktop humidor is like, you know, that thing that you just fill with distilled water? Yeah. They, they use
Gizmo: those for plants. Yeah. Like the green, it
Senator: produces humidity, which is great, but the problem is it can't remove or bring down humidity.
So you're always able to ensure that, especially if you're in a really humid place, you know, Florida states like that. No matter what your cigars are gonna be at the humidity. They should, it can bring that down. Um, it doesn't say who makes this, it just says, performs like an acrylic hum. Or with traditional wood construction maintenance, free, tight seal, no draft.
I mean, obviously they all say that, but,
Rooster: um, it looks good. What I feel is that 320 gram boda, it's rather large for 50 cigars. I agree. You know what I mean? I was gonna say the same thing, because that, can we use that? I mean, I've used it in the tower, like it's good enough for like two shelves or half the tower.
So that, that's quite, quite a, quite [00:23:00] big for 50 cigars. You can get away with a smaller pack and I'm sure you could probably slide a, uh, you know, like a small pack in there. A smaller Oh, for sure. Yeah. The
Gizmo: thing is too is if you're, you know, a lot of folks are getting 69%, Bove is 72% bodas. I mean, you're, you're really making your cigars way too humid, especially in a little container like that.
Yeah. You know, I, it's just, I don't understand why the industry is still selling that as the standard because it's just not what's best for the cigars. I know there's some folks that maybe prefer it up that high. I'm not gonna tell everybody to pull it down to 65 or 62 or whatever. Like, I like stuff,
Bam Bam: try telling Juan Moya to bring his humidity down.
Okay, well he grew
Gizmo: up in Cuba, so he doesn't care. He just wants a good, he thinks we're all
Bam Bam: crazy. I know. He does love you, Juan does.
Gizmo: So boys, let's go to our pairing. Now we have an interesting one here from Lizard Heto, who is the man who brought us [00:24:00] the last Calis many moves ago. Oh, a legend.
Rooster: He's a legend.
Gizmo: And also more importantly, introduced us. Oh yeah. Through the blind tasting to the Stoic cigars. The courage. Correct. Which was a game changer for us and the
Bam Bam: Club and many other people.
Gizmo: Yeah. Everybody's loving those cigars, still buying a ton of them, which is awesome. And tonight we have the Southern Star Paragon Single Barrel, Kentucky Straight Bourbon whiskey. I will be abstaining. Really? No. So we noticed when we poured this that it was quite hot on the nose, I think. Senator, what was your comment?
I mean, flavor-wise it smelled like Christmas in a glass. Yeah. Cheers. Cheers boys. Good to see you. Don't burn those nose hairs off. So a debut tonight from Southern Star.
Wow. It's definitely hot. It's 110 proof. Definitely has that kind of. Bite going down, and you're totally [00:25:00] neat
Bam Bam: on yours. Well, I
Gizmo: pour, I, so, I, I am tired of hearing from the bourbon enthusiasts who listened to this podcast mm-hmm. Who give a shit for being wimps with the ice as Senator reaches for his ice.
Number five, I don't blame him. I, I blame him to go to tonight. So I just put a splash of water in it. Cold water. Sp just this little slouch of cold water. Oh yeah, it's pretty rough.
Rooster: Are you loving it grinder? I don't, I don't. Why do, why do you have two glasses there now?
Bam Bam: That's the actual spirit and tonight's experiment.
Thanks for calling me house, uh, rooster. Well, tonight's the experiment.
Senator: One is, you know,
Grinder: during the pod and the other is post pod. It's what's Poopa call it, sidecar.
Bam Bam: That's right.
Grinder: Well, one's punishment and one's
Bam Bam: pleasure.
I'll admit as I take my second or third sip, it's, it's pretty good. It's gr well, I had to put a massive cube of ice and a little bit of water. [00:26:00] It's drinkable and the finish is actually quite good once you get past the heat.
Gizmo: So I think for a bourbon, I, I understand why bourbon folks love this. Oh, sure.
'cause this is what they're, this, this is what they're going for. Yeah. This is a really, really complex, delicious spirit. You're getting a very, very long finish. A huge finish on it. It's crazy. I, you know, the initial burn going down is just, you know, it is what it is. But as you adjust to that 110 proof, I think there's a ton of flavor there.
There, like you said, it's Christmas in a glass. There's a little cinnamon there, there's a, a little nuttiness to it. There's some sweetness,
Bam Bam: I think.
Gizmo: Yes, I think it's very good.
Bam Bam: Cinnamon, nutmeg, A little honey. Is it like hot honey? Honey is a good call. Like a hot totty. You could put some tea bags in here and boil that up and really clear up a, a congestion right away.
Senator: No, I agree. I think the flavor itself is really good. It wakes up your palate in, in a nice way. Flavor wise. The heat initially is the hard part. Like for me, I've needed several chips of [00:27:00] ice to tame this to a point that I can sip it without feeling like my esophagus is on fire and I'm actually able to just enjoy the flavor.
Uh, but in doing that, I really like the, you know, the flavor notes. I think it's, uh, robust, but. Nice bourbon and you know, for a non cigar smoker that just chases high proof spirits, there's no question they would love this. I think for us, you know, we have a different purpose for this and yeah, that's why we need ice with this.
Bam Bam: We're definitely not that pure bourbon drinker. And we know guys, some of some members in a club. I've got a client in particular that loves to collect super strong bourbons. He drinks it neat all night long and it's something that they chase.
Gizmo: So I got a note from Lizard Heto who shared this bottle with us, and what it says here is that Southern Stars Paragon has been deemed as the old Weller antique killer, which I guess is the Weller 1 0 7, the red bottle.
So have you guys, so we grade it
Bam Bam: very highly. Yes. [00:28:00] I like that better than this. I will say, I mean, I love
Gizmo: Weller products, but I think this is pretty damn good. It's good. It's good. Just
Senator: for context, I tried this with Lizard Heto prior to this. He said he prefers this to Weller 1
Bam Bam: 0 7.
Senator: What do you prefer?
Bam Bam: What do you thinking?
The
Senator: night I tried it, I prefer this because I actually thought that it didn't drink as hot as Weller 1 0 7. Oddly right now. You know what? I think maybe the difference is when I first had this lizard, Heto had this in his locker, it was already opened. Ah. So it had time to breathe a little bit. I think it canid a bit.
Yeah. This was a fresh bottle that we just cracked. And so I think some of the heat we're getting is just, it needs to decant a little
Bam Bam: bit. Yeah. But I think all those notes are there in the finish. And you could sip a single glass for over an hour. Easy. I think it's really good. Yeah. There's value there.
Absolutely.
Rooster: I mean, gizmo's drinking this without ice. It's true. I put a little impressive little splash it. I really like it. Yeah.
Senator: You have no, I thought you put ice in it. No ice. I just put a [00:29:00] little splash of water. Oh, okay. You have water something? Yeah. I'm like to drink this. Completely neat. Is insane.
You guys are crazy. Chef Ricky would be proud.
Gizmo: So let's talk about Southern Star Bourbon just for a second here. The Southern Distilling Company was founded in 2013 by Pete and Vienna Barger in Statesville, North Carolina, which aims to revitalize North Carolina's whiskey heritage honoring a legacy once known as the liquor capital of the world.
So they have a ton of different offerings, but for it only being a, a company that was started in 2013, I think this is a pretty good achievement. Yeah. Only 12 years later. I, I really like how this bourbon tastes right now. It's definitely a complex spirit. How much is this bottle? So we paid on the black market because these whiskey people, by the way, senator, is this a bourbon?
Am I crazy? It is. Okay. These bourbon people drive me crazy because we had to buy this on the secondary market. Bam. It was 90 [00:30:00] bucks on the secondary market. Got it. I'm sure if you go to the distillery, you wait in line, you do the whole thing, you're probably getting this, I would assume closer to 40 would be my guess.
Bam Bam: So on the black market, what does that Weller Antique 1 0 7 go for? Well over that one 10?
Senator: Yeah,
Bam Bam: one
Senator: 15. Oh, okay. Okay. But it's the same. I, I think like a hundred or one 10.
Gizmo: It's the same thing though. Uh, you know, we've talked about this before and now I'm gonna go at the bourbon people, even though I'm not putting ice in my drink tonight.
I can't stand the false scarcity in bourbon.
Senator: I'm sorry, the cork on this bottle is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Try to open and close this thing. Close it fully and then try to open it. Elbow
Bam Bam: grease. Elbow grease. There you go. Look how much effort's required.
Senator: Yeah. Twist. It's a band twist. It's tight cork.
It was just a pain in the ass. No, thank you.
Gizmo: So what I don't love about this spirit being on the secondary market, tertiary market, being that expensive, is we're talking about, you know, going at these bourbon people. [00:31:00] This, this is not a scarce product. I understand the time component is what's scarce about it, but we're talking about a product, the mash bill on this is 70% corn, 16% wheat, and 14% malted barley.
None of those are in,
Bam Bam: no in scarce. None of those are scarce. Correct.
Gizmo: So this fake scarcity around bourbon continues to frustrate me that even to bring in a bourbon that people are chasing around this country and around the world, we have to pay more than double of what its MSRP is. I just think that's crazy.
You know, I, I mean it's getting like that with cubit cigars because of everything going on, but Yeah. But
Senator: in the spirits category, to your point, there is no other class of spirit that has this. Bullshit. Correct.
Gizmo: Yeah. And maybe, maybe the only one that's because it's not bullshit, but the only one that has a similar type of market is the heavily aged single malt scotch.
That's true. But that's not bullshit. That's not even real scarcity. But they are scarcity. You can get those, you can get any of them. That's true.
Bam Bam: Those you can get here. You've [00:32:00] gotta talk to Harry and talk to Joe down the street and then make a phone call Right. To his wife. You gotta use the
Gizmo: password.
Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. So the bourbon thing frustrates me, but I do like how this tastes tonight and I'm glad we, uh, were able to bring this in. So boys, we're coming to the end of the first third here on the Rio, the Casa Carillo Encore Black. What's everybody thinking right now? It's a good cigar.
Rooster: It kind of reminds me a little bit of the DT of Maduro.
Hmm. Oh wow. I didn't see that coming out. Not, not, you know, I mean that, that, that cigar I think has, it's more refined than this. Maybe more, uh, it's a bit
Bam Bam: smoother.
Rooster: Creamier bit smoother, yeah. But maybe some similarities. Um,
Grinder: I don't know. I, I think the, um, there's like a really nice balance of cream and spice.
Mm-hmm. And there's this weird. Feeling that you mentioned about the tip of your tongue. That's [00:33:00] real. Yeah. Yeah. It's a real thing. It's there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which is, uh, it's like a tingle. Yeah. Correct. It's pretty great. It's great.
Bam Bam: Yeah,
Grinder: I
Gizmo: agree. I'm loving it.
Bam Bam: I'm just surprised how good it is.
Gizmo: And with that boys, it's time to throw to our interview from PCA 2025 with Lisette Perez Carillo, the daughter of course, of Ernesto.
Perez Carillo, the Master Blender, and of course he's an industry legend. Um, you know, we've talked about him many times on this podcast. We've done four other EP Carillo Cigars on the pod, and one of the biggest things about their appearance, their, you know, one of the biggest things about their being at PCA this year was the brand and, you know, change of the name of the company from Ipi Carillo to Casa Carillo.
So everywhere that we saw their stuff at PCA, it's at Casa Carillo everywhere. So they're doing a complete rebrand of their entire company with that, trying to, I [00:34:00] guess, eliminate some confusion and put less pressure on the name of, of Ernesto and make it more about the family.
Bam Bam: Yeah. And I think that's legacy planning, right?
Exactly right. And you'll hear that in the interview.
Gizmo: Yeah. Yeah. And she talks about what, you know, her role is her brother's role, how they interact with, with their father, and some quirks there, which I thought was really entertaining.
Bam Bam: We did touch on blending and how that's being. Disseminated in the company.
That's interesting.
Gizmo: We talked about international expansion.
Bam Bam: Yep.
Gizmo: Uh, we talked about how few women there are in the cigar industry at high levels. Great conversation this company. So it was a really, really good conversation and we can't wait for you to hear it. So enjoy this now, our conversation with Lisette Perez, Carillo from Casa Carillo, live from PCA 2025, and we'll be back to you at the end of the second, third.
Okay. Boys live at PCA 2025. We are sitting here with a very, very special guest, Lisette Perez. Carillo, [00:35:00] thank you so much for joining us.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Thank you for having me.
Gizmo: We have been big fans of your cigar, especially our friend senator here who has fallen in love, fell in love with the El Senor. That's right. And we joke that, uh, that was his cigar made by I Ipi Carillo.
Senator: You, I mean, truly we did it because of my name's date. We all have nicknames on our podcast, but uh, we were blown away. Um, I mean, the price point for a cigar that delivers that much flavor in such a smooth way, um, we've all smoked them and really love them, but the aging potential.
Bam Bam: That cigar is incredible.
Yeah.
Gizmo: That cigar has legs.
Bam Bam: I have cigar. That cigar about a year, year and a half old. And they're incredibly delicious. I think they get better over time. Yeah.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Yeah. Precisely from Sdia. Yeah. Stoia used to be my favorite line of ours. Oh really? So I understand completely. It's actually a very dear, uh, cigar for me because that's the first one from our family series, the Perillo and I designed that band.
So it's, it's, yeah, it's a, it's a band that's very [00:36:00] special to me because I, I drew it out with an artist, like a local artist from Miami, and I wanted to pay tribute to the women in my family, uh, that have inspired me, inspired my dad. And a lot of people talk about his dad, but his mom actually grew up in a tobacco field, uh, in pin Cuba.
And she's on one side of the band with pin dillo behind her. And then I'm on the other side of the band with Miami behind me in the Freedom Tower, which is where my family, uh, would get rations when they came to Miami from Cuba.
Senator: Oh, wow.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: So it's very symbolic. And, and then that same band is on our other percario series in just different, uh, color schemes.
So,
Senator: wow.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: It's, uh. Very, uh, very special line for me. So I'm glad that you guys like it so much. Yeah, it's outstanding.
Bam Bam: Outstanding.
Gizmo: Yeah. We've really fallen in love with your cigars. Um, namely the El [00:37:00] Senor. We loved the Pledge. The Pledge of Allegiance. The Pledge of Allegiance. I was emailing you two years ago, or three years ago when it came out 'cause we couldn't find them anywhere and we wanted to do it for our July 4th episode.
And when we got them in our hands, we were blown away. We smoked them. And then this guy over here bought up, I don't know, 5, 6, 7 boxes of them.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: In New Jersey. Right? In New Jersey, yeah. Yeah. I helped you, right? Yes you did. Okay, good. Yeah,
I'm usually pretty good. I'm the one who handles the social media and I am the one that does the dms and everything. Oh. So I always like, I'm trying to be really good about it. That's great. Yeah.
Gizmo: Awesome. So, so this is a big show for you guys because you are completely rebranding what we know as Ipi Carillo named after your father to Casa Carillo.
So what inspired the change, the rebrand, and why is now the time to do that?
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Well, uh, we've been talking for a while, um, about moving away from the ep and it was something where [00:38:00] last year we changed the factory name to Casa Carillo Cigar Factory because its name was Tab Za. And that's something that my dad wanted to name as an allegiance with us three, right?
So way back people would come by and kind of, uh, like for Pro Cigar, not know really the relation, you know, the za. So we made that change there last year and over time it just got a lot of traction and people were just really excited about it and started using that name a lot more. And we decided that it was time to make the change in the United States and the whole team was for it.
So it's a way that, you know, we get to honor tradition because it is our, still our family name, but we get to encompass the present and the future. My brother and I have contributed significantly since inception. It's really been the three of us, uh, coming to the table with different talents, um, that we have.
So we [00:39:00] figured that it was time to make the change. It's always a little scary, you know, to change, uh, a brand that has been out there for so many years and people recognize, but, you know, we kind of honor that in this line, in in the Essence series. So the I Carillo is now a sub-brand. Gaa Carillo is the umbrella.
And then I, Carillo is a sub-brand. Bees Carillo is another sub-brand. And then Inch, uh, which my dad is, you know, basically the pioneer of Big Reengage Cigars is also a sub-brand. And we're just gonna try to make that really clear, you know, in our communications and, and maybe, you know, have an easier way of people recognizing us because as it is now, you know, there was a lot of E-P-C-E-P-C and, you know, that's, that's still gonna happen.
But if you go into a store and you say, Hey, I've heard of EPC, or I've heard of vp, or I've heard of just Carillo, or Pledge or Encore, you know, sometimes, you know, staff is busy and they just, if if the staff knows us as EPC [00:40:00] and someone's asking for Pledge, they might not relate right. And say, you know, what's that?
So, you know, it's gonna take a lot of work, but I think we're gonna get, you know, to where we wanna be with, with this rebrand.
Gizmo: Hmm. And what is your day-to-day role in the company today? Obviously, we're gonna talk in, in a minute about a cigar that you've blended and you've blended others as well. But what are you, aside from social media that you just mentioned, obviously that's not your primary job, but what are you primarily doing day to day at the company?
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: So I handle all of the marketing for the company. So basically with, uh, the US sales, the international sales, and, um, you know, anything that's needed with respect to, you know, trade conferences. Uh. Social media, digital, basically oversee all of it. We work obviously with different agencies, um, that help me achieve that, but a lot of it comes, you know, the comes directly from, from me.
[00:41:00] I've also been in charge of developing different products. Uh, for example, Storia Encore Pledge, uh, allegiance. Now, uh, endure is more of a team effort. Mm-hmm. I'm still continuing with the spirit of the Perillo series, using the band with different colors. And other than that, I'm also responsible for the finances of, uh, both the factory and the United States operations, and then all of the, the legal work.
So I'm also an attorney, so I do the legal work for all of the companies, including international.
Gizmo: That's, if you need any assistance, there's 1, 2, 3, 4 right here, so.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Oh, we're happy to help. It's a lot for legal work. Not for legal work, please. Yeah. Not on the legal, but the rest of the stuff. Yeah, no, it's a lot.
It's a lot. You know, and, and, and we keep it kind of, you know, small here in the us our factory is huge, but, um, you know, we try to kind of, you know, use, use most of our, our budget, you [00:42:00] know, for, for things that. No, it's gonna help in the, in the long run with the consumer, you know, swag and, and um, marketing efforts.
But, um, but yeah, it's, it's a lot.
Senator: Yeah. Mm-hmm. But
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: it's fun. I like what I do, so
Senator: That's great.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: It's fun.
Senator: I'm curious a a little bit more about your story. I mean, obviously, uh, a, a leading woman in a male-dominated industry, and you mentioned your background as an attorney. You had your career as an attorney.
When did you kind of say that you wanted to dive in full-time in, in the business and that this was the path that you wanted to take?
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: So I've been working, uh, in the factory since I was very young. Um, obviously this is, I'm fourth generation, so it was basically our second home growing up. Uh, my mom would be there, my grandfather, my dad, uh, and you know, I would put the bands on the cigars, put the cellophane, always wanted to be involved.
Um, and it was something that I took for granted how special it was because I was born into it. So, you know, looking back now, [00:43:00] obviously I see what, um, you know, huge, um, I guess experience that was to be able to do something like so organic, right? That just coming from the ru up and learning alongside my dad, because he was very young.
I mean, they, he had me when he was 21. So basically, you know, his, uh, his dad passed away when he was 28 and he had to take over. And I was, you know, very young and just standing by his side. So it was a very, very rewarding childhood, um, to be able to live that. And as the years went by, I enjoyed it very much.
I actually decided to stay in Miami, um, for college so that I could keep working there. Then, uh, once I kind of set my goals really high with respect to law schools, so, um, once I got into Columbia, I really could not pass that up. So me and my dad sat down and I was like, I, you know, you understand I have to do this, but I'll come back.
Pagoda: That's impressive. Yeah. Yeah.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: [00:44:00] I, I, I was like, I'll come back, don't worry. You know, the minute I go over there, he goes to Dominican Republic and opens up a factory, you know, typical Cuban dad waiting for the girl to leave.
Senator: Mm-hmm.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Um, so kind of, we both went and spread our wings, you know, and, and he had a factory before, but we, you know, sold that company.
So, you know, he, he basically was working for General Cigar for a lot of years and, and well, so make a, make a long story short, uh, it was a wonderful experience. Went to law school. I was sitting down, um. You know, with all of these very smart people, you know, talking about what we wanna do when we're done.
So, uh, some people were kinda like, oh, I wanna go work with the Supreme Court Justice. I wanna do this and go pro bono and work at these top firms. And they got to me, I was like, I just kind of wanna go and help run, you know, the family business. So all of them are looking at me like, okay, why are you here?
But that's fine. [00:45:00] You know, taking someone else's seat. But, uh, after that, um, we kept, uh, we kept talking and talking and just, you know, kind of deciding, you know, what, what the future would look like, right. And it became quite easy for me when all these big law firms come to the schools and kind of entice you with these big, you know, salaries to work there for a summer.
And my dad was expecting that. You know, I go back and I was just like, yeah, that's, I'm, I can't, like, I'm, I'm gonna just do this. And he was always very supportive. Always it was, it was always, Hey, whenever you're ready, if you're ready and if you're not ready and you wanna just keep doing this, that's, that's great.
So, worked there for a while, then went to legal aid 'cause I wanted to do something more rewarding than corporate law. And then finally I had, you know, um, my first child, we were in New York after nine 11 and. [00:46:00] There was a moment where I just said, you know what, it's time for me to go like, I, I wanna go back home.
There's a lot going on here. I just wanna go back home. We moved to Miami. I take the board, uh, the bar exam there, and practice law for a while on my own. Do some real estate, some estate law. I found this niche in the Lemon Law of Florida, so people with like fancy cars that had problems. You know, there weren't a lot of people that, that did this.
So it was very nice for me. And then finally, um, my dad's time with, uh, general was up. We had to make a decision, you know, do you keep doing this or do we do something together? So we all flew to Virginia. Had a great conversation. It's a great company. They've always treated him super well and decided it was time, you know, and we went to dinner and he asked my brother and he asked me, Hey, you know, are you guys ready for this?
And we were. And it [00:47:00] was kind of tricky in the beginning. Uh, my brother and I really didn't have experience running a business. And my dad's a blender, so he's more of a creative artist type. So he's like, I'm gonna leave this to you guys. I just wanna go blend. You know, let me, you know, just you guys figure it out.
So my brother and I are sitting in this small office and, you know, before we, you know, move back into our other building and he's like, so what do you wanna do? Which part do you wanna do? Do you wanna do like the finance or the marketing? And then I do the sales also. Like, sure, whatever, let's do that. But we had no idea what we were really getting ourselves into.
Senator: And the legal and the social media. Yeah. Yeah. We forgot that. Yeah. And the lemon law.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Yeah, exactly. Right. So, so make a long story short, again, it's, uh, 16 years later and, you know, it's been a's, it's been a really kind of, you know, crazy ride. There's some really big bumps on the road.
Senator: Sure.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Uh, FDA for example, uh, just family dynamics, [00:48:00] which are very common in a lot of, a lot of businesses that are family based.
But here we are. And, uh, yeah, just looking forward to the future.
Bam Bam: So after 16 years of time doing this, has your father brought both you and your brother into the blending process and how he blends and his approach to blending?
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: He's, uh, kind of like at a genius level and it's hard, you know, sometimes to, to teach, uh, I guess when something is so inherent right.
And. My brother and I have, I mean, like, I grew up in a factory, so yes, I know how to roll a cigar, but my brother and I have, you know, made a lot of, uh, progress in learning how to blend. Sure. It is a little intimidating, especially if you're working with someone who knows so much. So a lot of times we work with, uh, someone in our factory, his name's Jose Manu.
He's actually here with us, and he kind of, you [00:49:00] know, has a lot of patience, you know, in explaining because he's young and he's also learning. So it becomes a little bit easier, I think, at times. And then my dad will come in, you know, at the right moment, especially, and I'll tell you the story with, uh, RIA Silk and we learn a lot from him.
Yes. So, so my brother has been involved in blending, and I am, I'm also involved with blending now. That's
Gizmo: fabulous. Great. So tell us about this new cigar that you blended. Correct,
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: correct. That cigar is, uh, a, a release that's going to be in, in May. It's Rio Connecticut. And it's a, it's a project where, uh, the Essence series, it's a series of different cigars, focuses on wrappers.
So you have the I Carillo, uh, Maduro and Sumatra, which is made in our factory. My dad is passionate about Sumatra wrapper. Absolutely loves it. Um, it's a, it's a rapper that he's worked with for decades. [00:50:00] Then we have the EP Carrio Honduras, which we make in the Placencia factory in Honduras, and now the EP Connecticut, uh, EP Carrio, Connecticut, which we make in the Diadema factory in Honduras.
So it's just wonderful opportunities to make cigars in our own factory and then enjoy some of these amazing tobaccos. Right, sure. And, and expertise of other, other factories. And I think that's something where my brother and I have contributed a lot into looking outside Also, you know, our in Nicaragua is made at Placencia Allegiance is made outta Oliva and it's just a wonderful experience to be able to learn, you know, how other factories do things, what their perspectives are, uh, and, and my dad just working with tobaccos that he might not necessarily be used to working with.
So it's been a nice experience. It's good see all
Pagoda: families collaborate together to come up with really good product and
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: they, and they really, you know, we really are close to, to all of them. So it's a, it's a nice experience. Never
Bam Bam: an easy thing, however,
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: never an easy
Bam Bam: thing. [00:51:00]
Gizmo: So I have to ask about the blending dynamic.
So obviously you, your brother and your father all have different palettes. So how does that blending discussion work? How different is your palette from your father and your brother? Like how does that dynamic work?
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: My, my father blends at a very, um. I guess detail level of what his palette talks to him, you know?
And my brother was a contributing contributor to the Pledge of Allegiance.
Pagoda: Oh wow. Thats a fantastic, we love that cigar.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: And he, he is a lot more aware of what is the consumer like right now. Right. Where are things trending? What wrappers are hot? Whereas my dad is more of a traditionalist, right. So he kind of knows what he likes, you know?
He, he, it's like very aficionado, but newer smokers enjoy it too. Right. But aficionados can really tell, wow, this is an evolution here. [00:52:00] What I, it's kind of like that, you know, um, Michelin, we make fun of like the three star Michelin chef, right? That, you know, they have like these little secrets and these things that they know that other people are just kind of like, how did they do this?
So, uh, for me, I smoke, um, a lot of our own cigars and I've. Become very, I guess, accustomed to those taste profiles. So I'm closer towards, I guess, my dad's, uh, way of blending, because that's more traditional
Bam Bam: flavor tip profiles.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: I, yes, I believe so. Okay. I believe so, yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's not something where I've asked myself that before.
So I think my best answer would be, Hey, your dad
Pagoda: with a trendsetter as well with the big ray, big ade cigar. Yes. One,
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: he's still very innovative, right. Because he'll buy all of these newer tobaccos. But it's, it's, you know, meaning, you know, he'll, he'll venture URA now, or this, you know, CYO [00:53:00] 98 or here they're Dominican, you know, so he's innovative, right.
But it's still a very classic palette, you know, he might not necessarily love, you know, uh, other like, you know, Encore Black for example, we might not love Encore Black, right. But our consumers go crazy over Encore Black, and I think it's a great blend as well. So that's kind of something where a lot of people might not know is an internal factor.
Mm-hmm. Where, you know, he'll try to, like my brother will bring a mother cigars and be like, look, this is what's hot. This is what's hot. And yeah, he can do it, but it's always gonna come back to his palette. Right. Because sometimes, like with the indoor that went through 30, I think it's 36 tweaks, right? So it's like we were good at 20.
We were like, my brother was like, please, like this is very important to just, let's do this, let's wrap this up. Not, that's nearly, he would not, he would not let up.
Bam Bam: Sounds like giz. My, when we're not having a good day. Not, yeah,
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: yeah. It was like he would not let [00:54:00] up. And it was, yeah. 30, I think it was 36, if I'm not mistaken.
A perfectionist in his own right. Yes. Yeah. I
Bam Bam: would like to hear about this cigar that I'm smoking. 'cause I have to say it's delicious. Yes. So it's very, very good.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: So what I did was about a year, a year and a half ago, I started, uh, you know, there's, there's a lot of women owned, uh, businesses, um, the cigar industry.
And I started noticing more and more women smoking, um, different types of cigars. Right. So it wasn't just, at first I noticed a lot of people maybe, um, modeling with a cigar or in social media.
Senator: Yeah.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Which they like to smoke. I mean, I know some of those ladies and they do like to smoke. But then I started seeing a lot more just, you know, people smoking for fun, women smoking for fun.
And my daughter was about to, uh, set off for college. And we were just talking and saying, you know, it'd be kind of cool if we did something where, you know, women would enjoy what we could create together. [00:55:00] But at the same time, men are gonna enjoy it because at the end of the day, we're smoking premium cigars.
Right. We're all smoking premium cigars. And I would get so many jokes about like, flavor and women, like flavor, like, you know, uh. What flavor Is it Apple or I was just like, no. Like we need to educate here. Yeah. That, that's not the case. Yeah. Yeah. So I started off, um, asking our top women, uh, retailers,
Senator: ah,
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: what are women asking for?
'cause I didn't wanna mess this up, right? I didn't wanna do something where, uh, I just come up with my own idea. I like this. And, and that's the way it is. And it came down to three rappers that women were asking for a lot. It was the Ecuador, Connecticut, the Ecuador Hano, and the San Andres. Uh, the Ecuador Habana and the San Andreas are, are rappers that I enjoy very much.
So I was happy to get those results. So what I did was, and I started doing tastings with consumers, uh, and I did some tastings in Dominican and Republic and some tastings [00:56:00] in the United States. Sent some since cigars out to women, just that I reached out on social media. I didn't know them, I just figured, you know, these people, they're smoking.
So let me DM them and see and send out cigars to them with the three different wrappers. So in the end, the Ecuador Habana one. Hmm. So that's where we are right now. Is that what I'm smoking here? Yeah. Okay. That's what you're smoking. And Yeah. Some of them were like, that's undressed was so good. I was like, well, you know, maybe in the future, but this is the one that went out and this is the one you know, that we're gonna go forward with and we're gonna do 500 boxes.
To start, but then just the last, the last day was just incredible. You know, we have someone come in, I need a hundred boxes, and we're like, whoa. I don't know if I, we have enough tobacco for that, but I talked to my dad and he's kinda like, you know what, we can get it, you know, I can get that tobacco, so let's make it a limited production instead.
So is which, is this out now? No, that's probably gonna be September. September. Okay. Yeah, third quarter. Got it. But I knew that here in the show I was gonna have a lot of [00:57:00] exposure and, and be able to talk to women and, and so many men have asked me for it. I literally brought only 40 of those here because, and that's not even aged as much as I would've liked.
I to
Bam Bam: ask. So when was this rolled? How long ago that was
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: rolled? Um, two months.
Bam Bam: So look for a young cigar. Yeah. There's a very slight hint of pepper, which I love. Mm-hmm. Exactly. But there's an infusion of a bit of a sweetness, almost like, like a sweet cream type thing happening. It maybe honey of you named it.
It's got great balance. Yeah. But if I keep this in my tower for maybe a month, month and a half Oh, absolutely.
Senator: Mm-hmm.
Bam Bam: It's probably gonna smoke. Yeah. Incredibly well. Yeah. Just as it is right now. It's delicious. Yep. Done. That's why
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: we, we, we tried it and we thought, yeah, it's okay. We can do this. You know, what will this
Bam Bam: retail out?
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Um, probably 16.
Bam Bam: Okay.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Yep. Probably 16. Well
Bam Bam: done.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: And then, you know, the Encore Black would is a similar concept where every three months or so we send some out, you know, to different retailers and I'm constantly getting asked about it when, when I'm gonna have more. And the [00:58:00] Encore Black and people are just, you know, crazy about it.
So it'll be a very similar concept, you know, hopefully the, the story will make its way that it's inspired by women, but it's, it's blended for all, you know, so,
Senator: yeah.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: And, and that, I started that with Jose Manuel at the, at the factory, my daughter and I last summer. And my dad kind of at first said, you know, I'm gonna stay out of it.
And then once you've done something, if you want my help, I'm obviously I'm gonna want your help. And then come to me and we could figure it out. So I went to him and we tried a bunch of different cigars. Very good. But then he would always say like, there's something missing in this one. And there's, and I'm, I'm his daughter, so he's gonna want it to like really kick ass.
So. We ended up figuring that, you know, it needed this, it needed that, and here we are. So he taught me a lot, even in that process. So we're very happy with the outcome. And what is the name of the cigar? Storia Silk.
Gizmo: Silk. Silk. Excellent.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: So it's, [00:59:00] it's kind of, we're doing, you know, some of those, like Encore Black, you know, Encore Noir was, is is mostly for Europe and Encore Unika.
So we're taking all of these lines that people are familiar with and just kind of, you know, making them premier, uh, limited productions, some limited editions. So it's been fun, you know, to just kind of those brands that people are always asking for. Give 'em a little something extra.
Bam Bam: I'm enjoying this. The, the, that slight pepper keeps your attention.
That's good.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Yeah. And the sweetness, someone that's the balance asked me yesterday. That's the balance. You know what, yeah. Somebody asked me yesterday and I was caught off guard because I have literally tried six and I knew that I wanted it to have a couple more months in. Yeah. But then I, I said exactly what you're saying.
Yeah, yeah. As I like spice and then that sweetness and sweetness comes in and, um, no, I was really happy. I, I tried it again, uh, just yesterday, like I said, 'cause we don't have that many, so I'm trying to put it in as many hands as possible and I was very happy with the outcome. So, yeah. I'm glad you [01:00:00] like it.
Bam Bam: From the point of view of the industry, how many other women are in the business at your level? And do you communicate with them?
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Them? I don't know an exact number. Yeah. But at my level.
Bam Bam: Maybe you count on one hand. Possibly. Yeah. I don't
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: wanna leave out anyone. That's why. But what, what do you guys think?
Maybe it's
Gizmo: gotta be less than five. Yeah. At, I mean, at your level, at and at your company's level. Yeah. I mean, it's gotta be less than five. Sure.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Yeah. Right off the bat, you know, we have, um, Laro, Dominic, I know Ernest does a lot.
Senator: Mm-hmm.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: The ADA sisters now. I just don't wanna leave anyone out. Sure. But I'm sure that there's a few more Sure.
That are heavily involved. Yeah. But I'm not familiar enough to know exactly. Mm-hmm. But I do know that those, I'm, you know, very certain, have a very high contribution. There's a lot of, there's some women, um, owned brands, right? Yeah. Just, just owned by, by [01:01:00] women. Right. So, you know, they're, they're at another level as well.
Sure. So, yeah. So I maybe 10.
Bam Bam: That's great. 10
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: if you include the brands. Mm-hmm. I know there's some brands out there.
Bam Bam: Excellent.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Yeah.
Gizmo: So I have to say with the rebrand as Casa Carillo, to me, when I saw that, it made a lot of sense in, as an outsider looking in, in that, I think over the last five years, right.
Ipi carillo, now Casa Carillo has elevated to a level and just the way the booth has grown and, and the, the stories and the ratings and the number one cigar of the year a couple times and, and how that has all happened. And what we see as premium smokers is more people smoking the cigars. So it seems to me that you guys are really.
Eating up market share. And you look at that booth, it's busy, it's big, like, it seems like things are happening. So for me it, it was like, oh, now I understand why they're doing Casa Carillo, you know, as an outsider. Mm-hmm. Looking in, it made a lot of sense because of how [01:02:00] the brand has elevated and the business I'm sure is growing like
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: wildfire.
You it's, yeah. And it is, and it was, and it was causing some confusion, right. Because you have EP Carillo by Carillo, by I Carillo and, you know, uh, per Carillo by, I carillo. It is just Casa Carillo. It's just easier. It's just, you know, Casa Carillo brands, and then you have, you know, your, you know, I don't, most people are not, this is, this is kind of an internal secret.
Most people don't say Rio, right. They say Pledge or Encore. Mm-hmm. And internally, we talk about that a lot because, you know, we, we rather have made it a little bit more clear. Maybe that line should have just been called Rio. Right. Or, you know, to be honest, if our company were called Perez from day one.
Right. Yeah, sure. You know? Yeah. It could've been really easy for sure. You know, internationally, us, you know, it's hard to pronounce, you know, our, our last name. So, um, whether it's, you know. Carillo that would work. You know what I'm saying? It's kind like, but it's, it's interesting 'cause sometimes, you know, I'll [01:03:00] win.
Sounds like Gizmo pronouncing it. That's, I'm very bad at this Carillo that, you know, because you, the r is hard to roll, right?
Gizmo: Yeah. Can't do that. I prefer Carillo. There
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: you go.
Gizmo: I can't roll the R Carillo.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Yeah. So it's, it's uh, you know, I'll do an event and I'll, and you know, somebody would just be like, oh, I, I didn't hear, 'cause I'll say Carillo and maybe I'm thinking I should say Carillo because then they'll come to me, they'll be like, isn't it Carillo?
I'm like, yes. You know, why not? Like, yes, I'm so sorry, but think about the confusion, right? Yeah. Like, sure. You know, but you are also one of
Pagoda: those companies with so many successful brand lines. Mm-hmm. You know, the encore, the pledge, right? Yeah. You can go to so many of them. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, no, it does make so much sense for it all to wrap up under the
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Yes.
And even if people keep saying pledge, at least, you know, maybe if we do this right, the message will be clear. You know, the people that make pledge are also making, you know, the Connecticut if, if you like a milder cigar in the morning, or, you know, Sumatra's, it's [01:04:00] all the same company. So that's, that's where we're headed towards.
And in the sense of there might be a couple, you know, smaller changes to make that more clear and just make it easier for the consumer, you know, for the store owners as well. You know, they're busy so they might know our brand, but. No, we shouldn't make it so hard to, to understand or explain it.
Senator: Are, are your cigars in other markets internationally?
Are there goals to try to grow kind of your presence in some other, uh, international markets? We're,
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: we are, we are in a lot of, we're most of the Europe.
Senator: Okay, that's great. That's great. And
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Asia, uh, South Africa. Wow. I mean we're, yeah, I know. It's, uh, it's global. Yeah. I just say that
Senator: because I think one of the things I've always been the most impressed with, uh, Casa Carillo, is the, the, the value, the price point for what it, the experience delivers.
Mm-hmm. And smoking your cigars, I think is tremendous. That's true. And as in these international markets as Cuban cigar prices have gone just completely skyrocketed and gotten mm-hmm. Crazy. Mm-hmm. I think there's growing [01:05:00] demand for new world cigars and at a more reasonable price point to have that same experience from a flavor standpoint, but better consistency from a construction standpoint.
Correct. Absolutely. And I think that's really the value proposition. So it's really great to hear that you guys have expanded to a lot of other markets. Oh,
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: yes. Absolutely.
Bam Bam: Just to piggyback on what he said, you know, a lot of new world cigar makers aren't making cigars that are elegant and subtle and have balance like the cigar that I'm smoking today.
It's a true opportunity, as you said.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Absolutely. Yeah. No, we we're, we're very heavily in those markets. So, uh, it's a, it's been really nice, uh, because we get to, you know, share our passion, you know, with, with people from different countries, which is, you know, fascinating and learning what those countries consumers like.
And sometimes like the encore, no, and the Unika was basically set for just Europe, because That's makes sense. That's the pallet. Makes sense. Yeah. Those cigars. When you're talking about value, um, that e Carillo line [01:06:00] is, uh, have you guys ever seen the price on that? It's really a cigar.
Senator: Yeah.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Um, very good value and we don't push that as much because the consumer will walk in and see the price, but it is, you know, the same high quality tobacco that, that, you know, it's, uh, that we would use for any of our other lines.
Hmm. You know, obviously the beta carillo does have some extra touches. Sure,
Bam Bam: right.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: But, um, but it's same, same quality, very high quality tobacco.
Bam Bam: I've always been curious how cigar makers blend for specific regions in the world. You mentioned a line that's specific to Europe. How do you go about blending specific flavor profiles for a reason?
Well,
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: we have, um, treasure in our company, um, Mike, uh, Jorge Mae, who used to be the head of Haos, um, he actually. Created the Bahi.
Bam Bam: Really?
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Yes. Wow. Is he
Bam Bam: serious? Yes. He created the
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Bahi, so he works with us. Wow. If you ever wanna interview him,
Bam Bam: very cool. He's
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: here.
Bam Bam: Yeah. [01:07:00]
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: But, um, but yeah, he's a fascinating, uh, mind to, to tap, you know, like you've just
Bam Bam: peaked our interest.
Oh no, he's, he's great.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: And, and his, his story, uh, is one where he started, you know, from, from the bottom, learning everything, right. Learning everything. And, and he was the head of marketing. I just, 'cause I said the head, but he was the head of marketing, but he made his way up there. But he loved like the, in, you know, the industrial part of it, you know, the tobacco, the creation.
And, and then they said, Hey, we need your help. And he lived in France for eight years. Ah, ah. So he knows, you know, a lot about that market, you know, not just France, but you know, European. He has best friends that are distributors. Sure. So he, his palate, like my dad's palette, might not, might not know, but his does, you know, so this
Bam Bam: opens up a whole line of questioning.
It's really interesting. So if he lived in France, he consumed the food, the wine. Oh, yes.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: I'm,
Bam Bam: I'm assuming that has to play into blending specific cigars for specific areas.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Yes. [01:08:00] I mean, he, he has, like I said, he has a, a, a really good, um, you know, I guess background to be able to, to blend for, for these countries.
That's amazing. Because he, uh, that's cool. He lived there. And Haos has, you know, endless ways of, you know. Knowing what different markets like, especially in Europe, um, which is a huge, you know, or has been in the past, a huge Cuban, um, I guess that's great market. That's,
Gizmo: so as we wrap up here, you know, thinking about the rebrand Casa Carillo, what are the next three to five years of the company look like in your vision?
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Just keep communicating. You know, keep, keep educating, keep teaching, you know, who we are, you know, what, you know, what I guess, you know, our, our values are and the fact that we're here to stay. You know, we're a company where we want. I don't know if my children per se, I know one will not. Um, the other one, my daughter seems very interested.
My, my brother has two daughters. So [01:09:00] it's about the, the present and the future. Uh, keeping in mind our tradition, you know, our story, we're calling it one Legacy Cuba, USA Dominican Republic, Cuba's, where the seed was planted. The USA was where that resilience kept, you know, pushing and pushing us further.
And, you know, I grew up, you know, uh, hear arguments about what we're gonna eat, you know, and it is really the American dream. Like we, we did it. And it wasn't just my dad, it was all of us. Because like I said, he was very young when he, you know, took over and, and my mom was part of it, and, and I was part of my brother, he's eight years younger than I am, but he had to sit, you know, in the factory for hours after school.
And it, it just is a real story, you know, like it's, um. It's just inspiring. And then in Dominican is where kind of like he just was able to just master it all, uh, and, and, you know, be, become, become that hall of famer that he is. And I think he's one of the few, the few master blenders left.
Senator: Yeah.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: A real legend.
And, you know, he's just, he's [01:10:00] great. It's great to learn from him. Absolutely. And his passion is, is inspiring. And if you guys wanna interview him, I'm sure he, he'd be glad to sit with you guys, so. Awesome.
Bam Bam: Uh, check,
Gizmo: no need to limit yourselves to me. Well, we wanna say thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your education.
Thank you for these great cigars. We really appreciate it. Yep. And, uh, we'll look forward to seeing you next time.
Lissette Perez-Carrillo: Absolutely. Thanks much. Thank you guys. Thank you.
Gizmo: All right. Thanks again to Lisette Perez Carillo from Casa Carillo for spending almost 40 minutes with us at PCA. She was so gracious with her time and her conversation was fantastic. We learned a lot and it was so great to, uh, you know, have someone from the Perez Carillo family on, because her father is a legend.
Bam Bam: Yeah, it is cool to get a woman's perspective in the business, you know, that was really insightful.
Gizmo: Yeah, she's sharp man. She runs all their marketing. She's, she's very important to the business there. And now she's doing some blending as well, so, [01:11:00] so we really appreciate her, uh, coming on with us. So boys, we are at the end of the second, third now on the.
Encore Black and the Southern Star, Paragon Single Barrel. What's everybody thinking on the pairing right now? This
Rooster: is
Gizmo: one of the best
Rooster: EP careers I've ever had. Agreed. I've never been that impressed by these, by EP careers except the first Allegiance, maybe. Pledge of Allegiance. Pledge of Allegiance. Yes.
That was really good. The second one was so-so yeah. But this one is good. Remind me of the
Bam Bam: cigar that we smoked at PCA in Vegas. I think it was the allegiance, the green one. That was, that was delicious. Yeah, it was very good. And this is, yeah, we'll talk about that rating of this a bit. Yeah, this is great.
This is outstanding.
Grinder: I think the second third has gotten, uh, changed a little bit. Um, definitely Still coffee. Got some chocolate in there that's still,
Bam Bam: no, I think the fruit is evaporated, but it's more of a, a floral, it's more, I, I'm, it's more floral for me. Yeah. I'm getting like a cedar and almond cedar's there.
Not almond yet, but definitely floral. The [01:12:00] coffee and a dark chocolate still there for me.
Rooster: A little more salt also.
Bam Bam: What about you, GIZ?
Gizmo: I'm feeling exactly the same. I think it's picked up a little bit. I think it's lost some of the sweetness, which I'm okay with at this point. It's you, you know, the sweetness is kind of,
Grinder: but it's still velvety smooth.
Can we talk about it? Is velvety
Gizmo: smooth and it's very satisfying. Very.
Grinder: Can we talk about the tingle? The tingle is now. Enveloping my tongue. It's not just the tip. The whole tongue. Yeah. Yeah. It's submerged.
Gizmo: I, I gotta say, uh, I think this is an excellent cigar. It remains very complex. I think the sweetness has gone down just a little bit.
It's a little more, I, I wanna use the word earthy. I don't know if that's the right word for what I'm experiencing. It's, it is earth more savory. Yeah. It's, it's more savory.
Senator: A little more salt is coming through. Now for me, the, the second half of this has gotten a lot drier. I agree with that, but not in a way that I'm thrilled with.
Bam Bam: I think that dryness is a product of, for me, the evaporation of that fruit note.
Rooster: It's also that cedar, I think you,
Senator: the
Rooster: cedar comes in in, can I equ that to a drier note? I agree. [01:13:00]
Senator: Yeah. But that's the thing. It's like that earthiness has picked up to such a level that it's gotten very dry for me. Mm-hmm. And what I liked about the first half was like, it was very balanced.
I got like a little bit of everything correct, and now it just feels a little imbalanced to
Bam Bam: me. Maybe two dimensional now where you had more dimension early on. Still great though.
Gizmo: I'm really enjoying it. I like the evolution here too. I do too. I know that, you know, Senator, you love a, you know, a, a very, very complex, strong one act play.
That doesn't really change that much. You've talked about that with the vo, but I like the, the journey this has taken us on tonight. I like that it's moved a little more savory. I like that it's not peppery. I like that it's not biting us. Mm-hmm. Which we know when manufacturers often wanna kind of push the envelope as far as strength and body, it often gets like too much oomph,
Rooster: you know?
So I don't know if it's fair to say like, would you pick this over an exclusive No, no, no, I would not.
Gizmo: Because this is so, I think that's a fair, I think that's an unfair question. It's in this room. I think that's unfair. Not in $16. It's almost the same
Rooster: price, [01:14:00] dude. Right. So what I mean is like, you know, a lot of the flavor notes are kind of similar to an exclusive O, so that's why I bring it up.
Like would you, would you pick it up over an exclusive or not?
Bam Bam: I think the first half was more reminiscent of that cigar, where now it's very mineral forward. This is my point. Yeah. So it has changed the, I'm finding it a touch. A touch too dry. That's what I'm saying. From just a touch. I don't hate it because for me, the smoke is still velvety and creamy.
So the experience is great and the retro ha is actually very good still, but on a traditional draw. So how it continue minimal as
Rooster: the first half.
Senator: That's why for me it would be incredible. This has nothing to do with being a one act player or two act play. No, I, I love both when they're done. Well, my problem is that the first half of this was done well.
So I wanted to carry that all the way through. Now, if this started, the first half started this way, I'd be praying that it would take me on a journey to end the way it started. Hmm. But it started perfectly where it was very balanced. Mm-hmm. And this right now is drier than an [01:15:00] placebo, and that's a pretty earthy cigar.
Yeah. And so for me, it just is lacking enough balance to have some sweetness that it's not so dry. Mm-hmm. After each draw,
Bam Bam: there
Senator: was a
Bam Bam: dryness there, but, uh, what do you think about the pairing guess?
Gizmo: Honestly, I think the bourbon is a nice pairing for this. I, I know it's a, you know, 110 proofs, you know, pairing tonight, obviously intentional, knowing that we had this, this bourbon in hand knowing that we were gonna try to go something a little stronger with, you know, Perez Carillo tonight.
But I haven't, I, I'm
Bam Bam: enjoying it. I like it too. I think because it's so dry. This does add that flavor that we kind of lost in the first half. Um, it's a very rich, rich experience right now between the two of them.
Senator: I agree. I think anything you would pair with this, you actually want a sweeter spirit.
Definitely. So I think like a bourbon is great for this, or like a sherry forward single malt scotch would be great with this because of what we're talking about. Like, you need something to counteract the dryness. Yeah. [01:16:00] Macallan 12 would be nice. Not a rum. Um, rum.
Gizmo: Two rum would be good. Definitely. Sweet.
Absolutely. Yeah, I think anything sweet or Sherry Sure, cask finished would be good with this. Agreed. So boys, before we get to some listener email, I wanted to bring up a conversation we were having on the chat. And I know that listeners out there starting to, you know, write us about an episode that came out two weeks ago.
I mean, little inside baseball during the summer. We try to get a little bit ahead of the schedule here, uh, because it's hard to get us all in the room with vacations and everything else. So that episode just came out yesterday. So the emails are starting to come in on the Dunbarton Tobacco and Trus, sober Mesa Brule.
And obviously we had a big debate on that episode and conversation about the sweetness and the sweetening and et cetera. And I know that it came up on the chat the other day and bam, you specifically, as we were talking about it, made a note that you regretted giving the cigar the rating that
Bam Bam: you did.
Oh, absolutely.
Gizmo: So you gave it an eight? I gave it a nine. Everybody else, I think I was the only nine. Everybody else in the room at the [01:17:00] time gave it an eight.
Senator: Yeah. So look, so your, your note was what? Gizmo an outlier.
Bam Bam: When
Senator: does that ever happen? No.
Bam Bam: So look, I, I looked at it this way. I looked at the, as he's trying to find his drink.
Where's my bourbon? It's the first opportunity. I'm actually serious right now. Let me have it. I I started out with the construction and quality of the construction of, of the, of the cigar at a 10, the flavor profile out of five. Tried to average the two, you know what, seven and a half? So I went up to an eight.
I think that was, that cigar is a seven all day long. Um, I think eight is just a touch generous, but not outrageous. It's not outrageous, but I thought it should be a seven. So what's a nine? Not that cigar.
Gizmo: See, I think, I think as we were talking about it in the chat, I still went back to the fact that even though the cigar is not what we reach for, for what that cigar was,
Bam Bam: did we have any listeners comment on
Gizmo: this?
Yes, I do. I have. Are you serious? Yeah. So Lizard Sean specifically wrote us, he [01:18:00] said, an 8.2 on this cigar is absolutely terrible. Come on guys. Just 'cause it quote, may or may not be sweet, Steve aka says it's not So go with that. The cigar for what it is, the construction, the burn, the quality, it's easily a nine.
Oh, that's absurd. I dis I don't, I disagree with you guys. I am totally on board with, with
Bam Bam: Sean ju on those two points. Sure. But then the, the sweetness is so overtly sweet. It doesn't seem natural. You don't know how, you don't know where it stands reading wise, I'm sorry,
Senator: to, to this lizard and, and he's written in many times, so, you know, I love this guy.
Yeah, he's great. But the, the problem is, look, we smoke premium cigars, which means they are entirely natural. That is what this product is. So if we're smoking a product that we have every reason to believe, has in some way been artificially modified, there has to be a deduction for that. You know, if every cigar maker could go and do stuff like [01:19:00] that, every cigar would taste amazing if they can just mask imperfections by artificially spraying something on it or doing something to the tobacco like that.
So we've all smoked enough cigars to know there is no cigar that delivers that level of sweetness. I mean, GIZ smoked one the day after I think it was, and said it was even sweeter than the one we had. That one got a little extra right, but it was still good. But it was just, but it's a problem. And And why it's a problem.
I especially don't like it. And I guarantee that a lot of the big manufacturers would agree with this 'cause they all lobby about these issues. Like this idea of sweetening up these cigars, which opens Pandora's box for regulators to say like, this is stuff that can be marketed to kids. I mean, that cigar is so sweet.
If you were to give that to a young person as their first cigar. Oh, they'd probably like that cigar. They'd be hooked. Right. And so I just think it does a disservice to the entire industry for there to be any artificial sweetening of what we [01:20:00] consider handmade premium cigars. There's a category of machine made stuff that does stuff like that.
Okay. No more power to them. But I just don't wanna see from brands that I love and respect and that we all want to be carved out of regulation that is suggesting they're gonna fall into the hands of children. We don't wanna see stuff like that. And there's no question, I mean, we had how many people here for that?
Five at least? Yeah.
Gizmo: Five or six.
Senator: For all of us who have smoked, God knows how many thousands of cigars at this point, to be able to say, I've never had anything that outrageously sweet. It is so obvious mm-hmm. That they're modified.
Gizmo: Well also too, listen, if, if, if Sacca has found some sort of gold in creating some sort of sweet tobacco that's not artificially, I mean, I would think the guy would try to become a billionaire with that and sell it to everybody.
Right. It was a Connecticut wrapper on that cigar. Yeah.
Senator: There's never been a Connecticut cigar that sweet ever. Yeah. In history. [01:21:00] I
Bam Bam: think Grindr needs a, a
Senator: Duro rapper has,
Bam Bam: you know, more sweetness. He's gonna represent Zaka. In this discussion. Send. I'm not going up against this. Send the invoice. Hell no,
Rooster: rooster.
I think that cigar without the sweetness might just be perfect. Might be great. I think so too. Yeah. Might be. Yeah. You don't need that extra sweetness on there.
Senator: We all said the best part of that cigar was the last third construction. The construction is this died down.
Gizmo: That's true.
Rooster: Yeah.
Gizmo: It was still quite sweet though.
I will say, you know, like I said, I'm expecting quite a bit of listener email on this, 'cause that episode just came out yesterday as of when we're recording this. But the reason why I bring it up, which I, you know, I don't usually do bring up, you know, I don't usually bring up cigars we've reviewed in the past, but because it's been such an ongoing discussion in our group, I mean it's, it's quite a hot button.
Cigar. I mean, as far as all of the scars we've rated, like, oh yeah. We don't really go at each other on the chat about ratings, you know, that we've, that we've done and you know, that cigar. Is definitely a [01:22:00] standout as far as being controversial around here. It's
Grinder: disappointing to hear. I mean, I like, I like Soka a lot.
Uh, the sink come from Mezo. I was sharing with you, I smoked one, I I smoked one today. It's hard for me to, to like totally bash him if he's a businessman and he sees it like a place in the market to go for it. You know what I mean? Then disclose it is our point. Yeah.
Senator: Correct. That's my issue.
Grinder: Yeah. You
Rooster: know, it is the ambiguity, just the, just the name Creme Brulee.
Says it all. It's, it's it, yeah. How do you make a creme brulee? What do you sprinkle
Senator: on top of there?
Grinder: Sugar do.
Senator: Oh yeah, tobacco. Do you have, um,
Grinder: do you have any loosies around? I want like, not lucita, the uh, like loose, uh, loose Ober. Mesos? Yeah. Yeah. I have one
Gizmo: at home. Yeah,
Rooster: I can, I'll bring you one. I wanna try one.
So, so giz, I wasn't at the pod. Were you the only nine on that? I was, yes. So when you give a cigar a nine, it makes you wanna buy a box, I assume, right?
Gizmo: Yeah. And I said that on the episode. I, I did buy a box of the 13 to have in my humidor. Yeah. You like it? I do. You smoke? Yeah. I [01:23:00] like for, I like it for, for one off.
After you smoked the one the next day. Yeah, but artificial, I had already purchased the box,
Bam Bam: so you gotta back yourself up. Yeah.
Gizmo: No,
Senator: no. But I, I, that'll be on Bon Roberts.
Gizmo: No, the first Dunbarton still waiting for the fights to be sold. You know? It's like true. You know, it's like, uh, I guess that's karma. I guess, I guess my thing with that cigar and, and why I am defending the nine is number one for what it was.
For what it is. I enjoyed the cigar. Yeah, I think the ambiguity, there's no question about that. I think all of your points are incredibly valid, Senator. But for what we experienced in the room that night, what I tasted, and like we said, once you got into that second third, it started to really taste. Like a normal cigar that we would expect.
And I think for a breakfast cigar with a cup of coffee, I think it's a, a, a really, really good cigar for what it is.
Senator: It is a nine to me. Yeah. I also want to just clarify, you know, I think you said something earlier like, oh, it's not a [01:24:00] cigar we normally chase or pursue or something like that. I like a mild morning cigar.
I think roosters in the same camp.
Rooster: I think we both bought a box and we smoked it. I mean, we went through it. Well, I, I gave
Senator: most
Rooster: mine
Senator: to the pod. That's the thing.
Rooster: I He had like three or four.
Senator: Yeah, just a handful. Right. Um, I did smoke them now, I mean, I
Rooster: used to enjoy them in the morning with a, just like you said, with a cup of coffee.
That's the thing. You don't need to add sugar in the coffee. Right. And you remember
Senator: And do both of you remember it being as sweet? Yes. Which is why when I said you're gonna do these, I said, it will be controversial. Because I could not explain how this cigar could deliver this level of sweetness. And that was just me saying that.
And then the fact that we all smoked it and all had the exact same reaction. I know I'm not crazy. I mean, collectively, obviously we know what we're talking about, that that's not natural to be able to do that. So all I'm saying is it is something that I think many of it, I mean, Grindr likes a milder smoke for me in the morning, I pursue that Rooster does as well.
Like I [01:25:00] chase a good morning smoke like that. If that were dialed down in sweetness and a hundred percent natural, I'd buy boxes plural of that cigar. Sure, sure. It's a really well-constructed cigar. Yeah. Myself. Oh, beautiful Burns and his credit, all of his stuff is, all of his cigars are, everything's well made.
But that's why like I'm rooting for the cigar. But when I have to question like, you know, we say like, well, we rated it for what it is. If what it is is a lie. I have a huge problem with that. And it's not about ambiguity. He has outright denied that it's sweetened. He said it's not a sweetened tip, I believe.
I think he's playing with semantics. That's ambiguity. But it's, he's playing with semantics, I think. But either you're telling the truth and disclosing what you've done or you're not. Mm-hmm. There is no ambiguity there. Yeah. I think, right. If you're asked point blank, have you artificially sweetened this cigar?
And your answer is not Yes. And you have, then it's a lie.
Bam Bam: Correct.
Senator: That's all I'm saying. I think he needs to dial in, have a conversation.
Gizmo: Yeah. Controversial Cigar Boys. So this is the same thing. It'll continue on.
Grinder: He was also at Drew [01:26:00] Estate when they, you know, made a lot of their flavored cigars. Right?
Yeah. So he's got to know how to do it and do it well, and do it subtly.
Gizmo: And, you know, you know, from a business standpoint, you think about Drew Estate, how important those flavored cigars are to them. You know, the, the acid, the Java, I, there's a couple other wine that they have. Those cigars are very important to their business.
Mm-hmm. And to their bottom line, you know, they're selling them everywhere, that's fine. But you
Rooster: gotta admit that if you're doing something Yeah, I
Senator: agree. Which those cigars do. They do. So I at least give them credit. I'm never gonna question their integrity. They're, they're clear and transparent about what they're doing.
Not my cigar. But that's not relevant. There are obviously people that smoke it.
Gizmo: All right boys. Let's go to some listener email. Now, this one is from Lizard Keith. He says, giz, would the Fabrica five sticks be good for an army retirement party? My son-in-law is retiring the end of August after 22 years. Mm.
He's a ranger and I believe some of his ranger [01:27:00] friends are showing up for the party. I want to have a vicar or two with the boys. Is Fabrica five a good cigar for sharing if you know the guys don't smoke? Are they too strong? Are they a good fit? I personally am a more mild to medium smoker. Do you think that these cigars are a good fit for sharing at this army retirement party?
Rooster: Boys? Most definitely. I think Honduran tobacco is the way to go with a,
Senator: yeah,
Rooster: a newbie smoker or somebody who's wants to get into cigars or has not had a cigar and wants to smoke one. I, I think, I think that would be great. But that's
Bam Bam: not to say that that's not a sophisticated cigar for even the most experienced smokers.
No, no. It's very accessible. Of course. That's true. That's exactly
Rooster: right. But it's like introduction to mild flavors. Yeah. But they're also getting
Bam Bam: a high quality cigar that we all love. Absolutely. Yeah.
Gizmo: And you know what? When you're at. An event where people don't smoke and you're handing out cigars. When you look around the ashtray and you see people putting down cigars that are half smoked or you know, a quarter of them are smoked or something.
Yeah. When it's [01:28:00] something that's reasonably priced, like Fabrica five, it's not breaking your heart. It doesn't hurt, you know, when you're handing out, you know, high, it's not breaking your heart, but you take notes. Oh yeah. You know who you're gonna give him to next time. That's right. Oh yeah. Absolutely correct.
And he continues on here. PS Keep up the great podcast. I learned so much and I really enjoy your pairings. I actually went to Total Wine and bought a bottle of the champagne that you guys did for the boy's birthday for you and, uh, chef Ricky there. Ba that and about five to six other libations I'm taking to this party.
Most, if not all, are on the Pods recommendation. Awesome. Awesome. That's from Lizard. Keith, we always appreciate hearing from our lizards. I'm just gonna
Senator: say now we need a champagne sponsor. That's true. We do get to work Senator.
Bam Bam: Get You. Imagine Paul
Grinder: assignment assigned. It was like when, uh, the, uh, the guy was going to make the, uh, lounge Lizard lighter.
Oh yeah. The DuPont lighter. Mm. Oh
Senator: yeah.
Grinder: We gotta do that too. A lot. Yeah.
Gizmo: All right boys, let's go now to our lizard [01:29:00] of the week. This one is from Lizard Derrick. I think it's his first time writing Lizard Derrick. He's in Austin, Texas, and he says. Hey lizards. I'm a long time first time listener. Long time listener, of course, first time emailer.
I love what you guys do, the laughs, the insight and the way you make cigars feel both elevated and totally accessible is really awesome, and I'm very grateful. I have a question I've been chewing on for a while and I'd love to hear you guys give your thoughts on it. What actually makes a cigar great?
Not just enjoyable or technically well constructed, but truly great in a lasting and almost emotional sense? Is it the blend? Is it the story? Is it the aging potential? Is it the setting you smoke it in? Or is cigar greatness something that can only be recognized? In hindsight, I would love to hear each of you weigh in on this.
Thanks for making this hobby even more amazing. Keep smoking. As [01:30:00] Pupa says at the end of every episode, lizard Derrick from Austin. Hmm. Great question. Great question. Yeah. And I, you know, the reason why I picked this as Lizard of the Week is because I don't think we've ever had that question before mm-hmm.
In any sort of semblance of, of how Lizard Derrick presented it. So I thought that was pretty cool. And by the way, I'll let you guys think on it for another second. Any lizard out there can win Lizard of the Week. All you have to do, like Lizard Keith and Lizard Derrick did, and Lizard Sean, and all these other lizards.
All you have to do is write us, send us a voice memo, an email, a comment on Instagram, YouTube, even on Spotify. Now you can make comments. So please keep in touch with us. Tell us what you're thinking. Tell us what you're smoking, and you can win some stuff from us. So let's talk about greatness, boys. Mm-hmm.
What makes a cigar great.
Senator: I, I'm happy to start. Uh, for me it's the blend. I say that because I think the perfect example of this is the Pargo co episode we did. Yeah. You know, [01:31:00] traditionally you would say there are many factors in a great cigar. You'd say the construction and the draw and the burn and the flavor and all these things.
How it feels in the hand, how it feels in the hand. You then look at a particle, cbra, any Culebra, they are ugly cigars. There's nothing beautiful about them. Talk, talk about Peyronie's disease grinder. Yeah. Right. You light that cigar. All of us were like school children when we smoked that cigar. That was solely the blend and the flavor that that delivered that got us so excited that I don't think any of us will ever forget the first time we smoked a Culebra.
Gizmo: Yeah,
Senator: so much. So I bought multiple boxes of culebras. I think some guys were from my patio recently. Some that, an amazing night. We had some, it was, yeah. Great culebras. Yeah. And so for me it is, there's any truly great cigar. I don't think it's in hindsight, I think you know it, as soon as you taste it, there is a distinct flavor [01:32:00] profile that it delivers that you can say to yourself, this is unlike anything I've had before.
And I think many of the cigars that we regularly smoke and pursue each of those has something unique about it that we've never been able to find a carbon copy of. And I think, you know, that profile is what is dependent upon the, the smoker, the individual. Um, but I think when you have a, a profile that you like and you find something that checks those boxes or maybe challenges it a bit, but in such a spectacular way that you immediately perk up and are excited about it, that to me is a great cigar.
Bam Bam: I, I, I can't disagree, but I, in my opinion. I think the blend is paramount. But a great cigar has several factors that are performing perfectly in unison because you can't really have one without the other. And it's in any cigar. If it's a plugged cigar, [01:33:00] you'll never experience that blend. If it burns inaccurately or if it starts to unravel and it wasn't made well, you're not, you're gonna drop that cigar.
You can't experience that. So I think, I think a great cigar does multiple things simultaneously. It's gotta draw beautifully. It's gotta burn perfectly. That blend has to be right on the fucking money. Um, and, and, and honestly, the hand feel is big. And the smoke, the quality of the smoke. We've, we talk often if that we want to see ourselves.
Yeah. Plumes of smoke, develop plumes of smoke over our heads. Yeah. So combustion's big too.
Senator: That's a good point. And actually one thing I would add, you know, I, I guess consistency also really has to be part of that equation. Big time. 'cause we've all had like one hit wonders where we had one great cigar.
It's happened on this podcast for sure. Then we've bought a box, we've pursued more and we've never been able to replicate that experience. And it's hard to call that a great cigar if you can only experience it once and from the same maker, the same [01:34:00] box, same time period. You can't replicate that. So I think consistency goes a long way with that as well.
To band's point about all those other factors playing a role. And I think to the way I simplify in my head. All these factors that bam just walked through, which are all important. It needs to be effortless. That's the key that,
Bam Bam: so honestly, that term I think is paramount here. If it's effortless, all those things are working perfectly and you're getting, so it needs really to be effortless.
Right? Right. I
Rooster: think, I think for me, when it's a great cigar, it's a cigar that you can't wait to share.
Gizmo: Yeah.
Rooster: Right. That's a good point. Like a
Senator: great
Rooster: Pam's like, not me. That's a joke. Or is it? Well, yes, it's, so when you have that great experience, you just can't wait to share with, with the other lizards, with the other members at the lounge, because you want them to also [01:35:00] feel what you are feeling from that cigar.
Gizmo: And you, I almost wanna, when I find something like that, like I want validation in it. Like, like, am I crazy? Like, taste this and tell me I'm crazy. Sure. You know, if I had it by myself or in a smaller group like that validation's important. I mean, you smoke a cigar,
Rooster: you light it up, right, right. On the light, you know whether that cigar is good.
Bam Bam: Yeah.
Rooster: Or bad,
Bam Bam: right, right. Like you said. Yeah. And then, and
Rooster: then it builds upon that. Then you get the flavor notes, then you get, you know, you get deeper into it, you get into the, the acts of the cigar, whether it's a one act, two act, three act, but it just, it just builds on that. But
Bam Bam: it needs to be effortless and those things have to work in unison for it to do that.
Rooster: All of all of that stuff. I mean, it has to have great construction, great blend. I mean, what all, all the stuff that you've mentioned before. So then what,
Bam Bam: like an experienced smoker then is gonna start to think, okay, what Marco gives me all of those things. What new world cigar maker gives me all those things.
And we can name a few Cubans and a few new world cigars that do that. Yeah. But when we're talking about greatness, it comes
Senator: down to individual cigars. It [01:36:00] does. It's as much as we love, love the drone and we love particles and these other brands, that's true. We can talk about individual cigars. It's not like every single thing they make is at that level.
I can give you 10 right now.
Gizmo: Yeah.
Senator: Right.
Gizmo: Well, I, I, I, I wonder too, I, I think about earlier in our journey, in my journey, I think the greatness, obviously blend and flavor and construction performance being effortless, certainly. But I think when you're a more novice smoker, I think the, the environment that you're in and the company you're in to have those kind of conversations.
Those, I think those memorable moments come from. If I think about all the cigars that I would consider great from my very early days, knowing you guys, you know, not really being a, an experienced smoker, not really knowing much about it. Pre
Rooster: pre camacho.
Gizmo: Pre Camacho, it comes. With, I think the environment, the people that you're with.
Bam Bam: Yeah.
Gizmo: I think add to that level of greatness,
Bam Bam: I will counteract that. I've been alone years of smoking and I can recall 3, 4, 8 years ago [01:37:00] cigar experiences that you just won't ever forget.
Gizmo: I'm not, I'm not saying that I haven't had those moments in isolation. Yeah. I'm saying early on in the journey. I agree.
As a newbie. Yeah. Maybe you're, you're, you don't know what greatness is yet.
Bam Bam: You know what I mean? You're starting to figure it all out. Was that the gist of the question? A newbie from a newbie perspective? Well, no, I'm just adding to the question. You're adding what I, adding layers. Yeah, I'm adding it.
You're adding the complexity. Great.
Rooster: You're listen to the weak
Grinder: Grindr. Uh, I think it comes, you know. Comes down to that mo it's instantaneous. When you recognize it, you can't, you know, for me it's not a formula. Um, you just know it. You just know it. And I, you know, I think Senator mentioned it's something that you haven't tasted before. It could be something you've tasted before and you're striving for and you're searching for.
Senator: Mm-hmm.
Grinder: Um, you know, we talked to, to Rob about this when we had our first episode with Rob, where you, you have that cigar and then you're always searching for it. [01:38:00] Um, I think it's, it's in that moment, you know, you know, even from the first draw, you can, you can tell like, oh, damn, this is, this has got something special.
It's also very individual, isn't it? It's certainly individual, but I think it's, you know, it, it's also palate dependent, right? Sure. Well, that's, we're talking about individual cigars. I mean,
Senator: look at the Alma Forte. The Alma Forte. Yeah. I mean there's, yeah, there's,
Grinder: there's, there's a lot of, uh, individual individuality associated with this.
So I think it, you know, good cigars too. Like we, you talked about lines, right? So there is something to be said about a manufacturer who makes really good quality cigars, consistently making them like, you know, like, oh, that's, you know, that's gonna be a good cigar no matter what. Um, just because that the reputation or, um, what you've had in the past with them, like a dab it off and a patron, we know we're not gonna have a bad experience, but like, when you light it up and you, and you take that draw, you know, in that minute and, and that's it.
Gizmo: [01:39:00] Mm-hmm. Lemme ask you guys a question before we go to our ratings tonight. What is the last great cigar that you experienced, either on the podcast or off yesterday? What was the, what was the great cigar that you've had recently? What
Rooster: was it yesterday? Punch, punch, punch. 2014. No, that's
Bam Bam: right.
Rooster: Ah,
Bam Bam: yeah, it's delicious.
Rooster: I'm sure.
Senator: Senator, I won't answer this Most recent, as you know, there's plenty of things I've smoked recently that I consider great cigars. It's more, I'll take this from the most recent great cigar or cigars I've discovered. For me, that's aging room. Yeah. I mean, this was a brand I had never heard of until they won cigar the year, one year I tried their cigar the year that, um, the Quatro
Gizmo: Nicaragua, the, the Maas orange
Senator: box.
And I, for me it was too peppery, too much. And then fast forward years later, they come out with this Sonata. And I remember Pagoda had handed me the first one I ever tried, and like we're describing, you know it when you taste it. Mm-hmm. And the only reason I doubted myself [01:40:00] is pagoda. And I had several drinks that night.
And so I'm sitting there saying to myself like, I am enjoying every bit of this cigar with a brand. I've never had any affinity for. To Gizmo's point, like, am I crazy or is it really this good? And then we did it on the pod and I smoked one under the microscope and I felt exactly the same, and I knew I love that cigar.
Then you fast forward the concerto we just did that came out and it's like he's done it again. Yeah. This is spectacular. So like for me, you know, those are cigars that are absolute staples and, um, you know, like concerto we just did very, very recently. Yep. So that, that jumps out. That was
Bam Bam: my answer by the way.
Yeah. So that's an outlier, that cigar.
Gizmo: Yeah. Truly
Bam Bam: unique experience.
Gizmo: The, yeah. The, the new one, the concerto we did recently. Oh yeah. That is an elevated experience that has hit my palate. Yeah. In such a Yeah. A, a powerful way. Same. A great way. Same. If we wanna go back to this question, like it hits all of those points and I've smoked one almost every day for [01:41:00] three or four weeks since we recorded that.
Yeah. I'm al I'm already through a box of them. Sure. Every single one has been perfect. Yeah. Everyone, there's been not a single outlier in the excellence in that box. Correct. I'm totally blown away. Yeah. By the concerto. Totally blown away. Oh
Bam Bam: yeah.
Gizmo: So what was your last great cigar bag?
Bam Bam: Honestly, I had an exclusive two days ago, and you know, I think we take that cigar for granted because it's so available.
We have boxes of them at the house, but when you sit down, it is a perfect cigar. That has to be on that top shelf of excellence because all those elements and factors, it hits right on the money. It just delivers. And it delivers. And you noted this a few weeks ago, you kind of, I'm not gonna say you rediscovered, but you, you dove back deeply into exclusives.
Yeah. You were doing one a day, multiple a day. Uh, that was, took him long enough, it shakes his head. Like what? It took him a hundred years just to get there. That's correct. He was on a Rock of Gibraltar smoking a fucking, [01:42:00] and he threw it off the rock
Rooster: and head Morocco threw it in the lake. Correct.
Bam Bam: But, um, you know, something like that, that we know very well, you kind of take it for granted when you go back to it.
You know, it's, it's a, it's an excellent experience.
Rooster: I mean, that's one cigar that you can smoke all kinds of cigars, whether it be new World Cubans, and then you go back to an exclusive or you're like, wow. But it's, you can smoke it
Bam Bam: at all seasons. You know, we live in the northeast, right. So it's cold and, and hot and humid.
It's durable. It's delicious. Indoor, outdoor, almost any spirit or coffee or anything other than milk. Um, it's incredible. So you have to look at those kind of cigars as kind of like a holy grail experience. It's 'cause it never, ever fucking fails.
Grinder: I want to do a milk pairing now.
Bam Bam: Yeah. Why did you carve
Gizmo: out milk on the, uh, pairing off should say.
I would
Bam Bam: probably do it like a milk chocolate with that, but not regular milk. [01:43:00] It's gotta be talking about, it's gotta iced
Gizmo: I'm trying to understand how you got to milk is my question. Yeah.
Bam Bam: Dairy and cigars. Big problem. I
Rooster: wouldn't do that. Coffee has like a latte, cabb. I don't
Gizmo: need, I don't need any dairy. I, but I'm just wondering how you specifically carved out milk.
I don't know. I remember someone having a, a glass.
Bam Bam: Oh, EDO No. Lizard J No, no. In our, I just remember an experience that, uh, two members here had with a milk based spirit in their cigars. And I have found that, so, oh boy. I've seen that. Yeah. I find that to be very unusual, so I would not recommend that. Was that the, it just came to mind.
Yeah. Just came. They're new members. Yeah. Ah, yeah. I think they were drinking Bailey's on ice.
Grinder: Got it. I, I had a great cigar a couple weeks ago in, in Florida on vacation. And it wasn't a cigar, it was a cigar I've had before. It was the all Dino Cameroon, but something about sitting on the ocean with the salty air and that Cameroon wrapper, it was just [01:44:00] sublime watching the sunset.
That was a great cigar for me. And I, I'll have many more of those cigars, but that cigar was at that
Gizmo: moment.
Grinder: At that moment was fucking awesome. Yeah.
Bam Bam: I have yet to be let down
Grinder: by that
Bam Bam: cigar.
Gizmo: I agree with that. You know. So thanks to Lizard Derrick for writing us and asking that great question. That's a great question about greatness in cigars.
Yeah, and I think any lizard out there, I'd love to hear your perspective. We would love to hear your perspective on what you think defines greatness in your cigar experience. Obviously all of us are different. All of us smoke in different environments, situations, you know, by, by ourselves in big groups, whatever it may be in the car, eating salads in the car, eating salads, of course, steak salad.
Tell us what you think greatness is and please keep in touch. So boys, we are coming to the end of our evening here with the Southern Star, Paragon Single Barrel, single Malt Scotch Whiskey, and the Encore Black, the rib robusto. What's everybody thinking on the pairing before we get to the ratings? Well, it's a very rich
Bam Bam: pairing.
There's no doubt about that. [01:45:00]
Gizmo: Would you say it's a full pairing?
Bam Bam: Yes. Yeah, no doubt.
Gizmo: Now, on the cigar, before we get to the ratings, would you say that the cigar is foland strength? Or medium in strength? I would say it's medium.
Bam Bam: Yeah. Full in flavor, medium in strength. I agree with you on that. Yeah.
Gizmo: Which I think is a big win here, because I think if it was, but I have a question for you.
When we're done
Bam Bam: at,
Gizmo: you know, adding that pepper thing or that thing that's gonna push it into mm-hmm. Like really, really punchy. Certainly it wasn't a nicotine bomb, which was fantastic, but
Bam Bam: I see you, you're done with your cigar.
Gizmo: Yeah.
Bam Bam: How did it end for you?
Gizmo: It definitely ended a little drier than I would've liked.
Bam Bam: Oh yeah.
Gizmo: So for me, it kind of, you know, and I'll talk about this in the raining, there was a bit of a tail off there from the first half. I wish the first half maintained a little bit more of the mouth feel. Uh, I like the flavor transitions as I talked about. Mm-hmm. But I wish the mouth feel maintained all the way through.
It's actually
Grinder: extraordinarily dry. Yeah. Yeah. I, that's so unusual. Very unusual. For me. It's the cedar. I got a lot of cedar through and there, and it just dried. How [01:46:00] long have you had these?
Gizmo: Uh, probably about three weeks. Bam. In the
Bam Bam: tower?
Gizmo: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Alright, boys, it's time now to move into our ratings.
We're gonna start with the formal liquor rating tonight on the Southern Star, Paragon, Kentucky Straight bourbon. Bam. Bam. You're up.
Bam Bam: So I'm at an eight. Um, initially it was very hard to drink, but I think as my palate adjusted, I liked it more and more. You do need a little bit of ice, a little bit of water, but I think Senator, you mentioned it, the holiday notes are there.
There's cinnamon. There is honey. I found it to be some nutmeg in there too. It is a very complex drink, but um, probably something I won't reach for. I'm not a bourbon guy, but I'm at an eight.
Grinder: Alright. Grindr. I'm at a six. Yeah. Wow. I didn't like it much at all. Um, definitely didn't catch the Christmas spice.
I only caught the honey at the very end.
Senator: Nothing at all.
Grinder: It's too hot for me. Yeah. I just can't get by it. You didn't
Senator: get a blast of cinnamon and nutmeg on the nose even. I did not. [01:47:00] I'm
Grinder: still
Senator: getting
Grinder: it. No. So, yeah, not, not, not that enjoyable. I'll be, you know, candid. I'm not a bourbon guy, but yeah. Six solid, six for me.
Rooster: Solid.
Grinder: Solid, solid, solid. Six. Yeah.
Gizmo: So for me, a, a, a high proof bourbon. I thought this was excellent. I'm at a nine. I really liked it when I compare it to the Weller products that we love so much. Those I've rated tens, uh, this is just a step below that for me, but I love the honey, I love the cinnamon. You know, when, when your palate adjusts to that heat.
I think it was a very, very full spirit pairing for the cigar tonight. I love the long finish. I think the finish lasted longer than almost any bourbon I can remember. Yeah, really that earlier, your last, your palate. Like, I can't complain about that. Um, it's
Senator: so long. You don't need another sip for another
Bam Bam: year.
There you go. Or more, you will not have more than one glass a night.
Grinder: You'll still be drunk. There's so much booze in this, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bourbon,
Gizmo: you know, good value on the price. I think the MSRP is reasonable, [01:48:00] as with every bourbon. I think the secondary market bullshit is ridiculous. This should not be a $90 bottle to any consumer out there.
This should be a $40 bottle. So I'm gonna judge it based on its MSRP, not this secondary crazy market on, on, on these groups, on Facebook and Discord and elsewhere. But I really like this bourbon. I would reach for it. Again, I'm not gonna drink copious amounts of it, of course, but, uh, I thought the flavor was excellent.
I really liked it. So for me, it's a nine senator. So I'm curious, will you buy a bottle of this? I will. I would absolutely buy, like, all right, so here's what I'll, I'll couch that at $90. I'm not gonna drink this more than I would say, you know, the weller, the, the green label. You don't need to certainly, but if this was 40, 50, $60, I certainly would drink more of this, especially, and I'll say this is a great spirit for the wintertime.
Bam Bam: Oh, sure.
Gizmo: I think the heat on this would be great in the winter, if you're sitting outside, it's a colder night with a cigar, I think could be great for that. [01:49:00] Um, and I also think if you couldn't have a cigar, I think this would be very satisfying. There are moments in,
Bam Bam: in time where you want something that's fairly stiff and this fits the bill
Gizmo: because it's stiff with flavor.
It's not stiff for the sake of it.
Bam Bam: You're right. You're right. Yeah.
Senator: But, all right, Senator, you're up. Uh, I'm, I'm definitely at an eight. Uh, for me, the, the flavor profile is great and what is just frustrating to me, and that's why I can't give it a nine or a 10, is the heat is just so intense. And it's wild because like I said, the first time I tried this with lizard Henri retail, it did not drink this hot, but a fresh bottle.
I almost wonder how long he had that. I mean, how long do you need to decant this thing for it to,
Gizmo: let's not forget those senator. This is single barrel. So each of these are a little bit different proof, different barrel. Sure. So there are differences I see in what's happening here. So that bottle certainly may have come from a different barrel.
Interesting.
Senator: I mean, [01:50:00] even that is frustrating in the sense that you can't even guarantee each time you're, you know, gonna have the same experience. I know there's, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know there's lots of single barrel stuff, but I don't, I don't recall there being anything I've ever had that's single, uh, single barrel.
I don't ever recall there being like a dramatic variation in my experience. But the heat on this, this was definitely dramatic because the bottle before I thought was actually smoother than Weller 1 0 7. This, to me, is much hotter. I don't know that I've ever put as much ice in a bourbon as I had to put in this.
I mean, guys are putting water and ice just to tame this. Yeah, I thought the one, I just put a splash by the way.
Bam Bam: I thought the 1 0 7, like I said an hour ago, is just a notch above this. It's less, it's not as hot. It's a bit more enjoyable. But this has flavors that, that doesn't have, that doesn't really have those holiday spices.
Like this does, this is very pronounced
Senator: and that's the thing. That's why like, yeah, you know, I, I'm just caught in between because I do love the flavor profile. [01:51:00] I just wish it could be delivered in a smoother, more accessible way and at a $90 price point. You know, I, I'm looking for a refined experience.
I'm not looking for something I need to water down a ton to be able to enjoy. So, um, you know, when I drink it again, yes, that's why I gave it an eight, but is it's something I would pursue. It's just too hot.
Gizmo: Boys, the formal liquoring tonight on the Southern Star Paragon Single Barrel, Kentucky Straight Bourbon whiskey is a 7.8 78 tonight on the bourbon.
Pretty fair. I think that's a little low. Um, and you know what, you know what I wanna go at at you here? Bam. Yeah, go. Um, grinder. I'm not even try at the six, but you at D eight you said that it's one, he gave it an A two, it's one step down. You said specifically it's one step down from From the 1 0 7. 1 0 7 7.
Senator: Yeah.
Gizmo: Should I agree with, would you rate that a nine or a 10? Because I think you rated that a 10. That's my point. I don't remember what I rated it. It was more than this. Either way
Senator: he's consistent. He liked that more than he liked this certainly, but it's
Bam Bam: one point is a lot [01:52:00] different than two. Look. Yeah.
But at the end of the day, an eight is a great score. I would have this again, I'm not sure if I would buy it, but honestly, if I'm at a club in lizard, Henri or anyone else opens a bo a bottle of this, I'll have a glass. Probably sip that for quite a long time because there's a lot going on with this. Um, yeah, it's a tough one.
Gizmo: All right, boys, it's time now to move into the formal lizard rating tonight on the EP Carillo, the Encore Black, the Rob Robusto Rooster. You're up.
Bam Bam: This is also gonna be a tough one.
Rooster: This is definitely one of the, one of the better EP Carillo Cigars I've ever had. How did your cigar finish? Excellent. Oh, you mean now I spoke it down to the nut exclamation point.
Well, so did we. Yeah. Yeah. So, and Senator's still smoking his, yeah, right. So I mean, the first half of the cigar. Was fantastic. Mm-hmm. If the whole cigar was like that, it would be a 10 mm. But for me, the first half was a 10 and the second half is like a seven.
Senator: Mm.
Rooster: [01:53:00] It did get, it did get a little drier, but I liked all the flavor notes that, you know, throughout the cigar.
But had it not gotten drier, it would, I think around the room this would get a very high score. But you do like a cedar note though. I do like cedar, but throughout, I mean, not, not something that changes, but it, Cedar is fine, but this, this got drier, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that mouth feel is different when it's cedar and, and this one just got really, really dry towards the end.
Senator: Mm-hmm. Because you can have creamy cedar. Yeah. You can, right. Cedar does not have to be That's correct. Extraordinarily dry. Correct.
Rooster: You know, like you smoke a doff, um, like the Grand Cruise series. Mm-hmm. That's heavy cedar, but it's creamy. Yeah. So it's, it compliments, but the CI cigar had same, same in the signature signature too.
That's true. Yeah. But the cigar was really, well, you know, it was well made, well constructed. I think the blend is spot on. I, I like the Nicaragua and the, uh, Mexican San Andres, uh, fillers, the wrapper, the Connecticut broadleaf wrapper. I think it just [01:54:00] works. And it's, it's a, it's a good ep, CHOA Cigars, and I think it, these, the second half just needs to be tweaked a little bit.
So, because the first half should kind of continue, you know, all the way through. And this would definitely be very high scoring cigar. But for me, I mean, because of the second half, um, diminished in flavor and got drier. So for that reason, I'm at an eight, solid eight, by the way. Mm-hmm. Solid. Solid. Alright,
Senator: Senator.
So I, I'm also at an eight. And, you know, ironically I feel, is it, is it solid as a rock solid, as did Gibraltar?
Bam Bam: Yeah, it's teetering over there. Teetering.
Senator: Oh, it's, it's just solid enough. All right. Just solid enough. You know, ironically, I feel the same about this cigar as I do the bourbon in that. You know, for the bourbon, there was something that had huge merit for me, and then something that was a big problem.
And in this cigar, the first half, the flavor profile, the blend, was excellent. I was literally sitting there saying to myself, this is a nine candidate. Yeah, [01:55:00] possibly 10. I was right there with you. Of course. If it can get even a little bit better than this is. I think
Bam Bam: we were all there. Yep. Yeah. And
Senator: for me, the second half got, so literally the moment it hit the second half, every puff all the way to the end just got drier and drier, and drier and drier.
So strange to the point that I didn't enjoy what I was smoking.
Rooster: Mean, I don't know what, what really causes that to a significant, I don't know. That's, I'm, it's not, Cedars doesn't make sense. It's not about like the,
Senator: the flavor itself. It's something about how this is married together that lacks any creaminess or something that is mouth watering. Mm-hmm. To, to like make this a, a more pleasurable smoke.
I, I just don't
Rooster: understand Why do you think the score would be different if, if it was the other way around? If it was drier in the beginning? I, I don't think then it
Gizmo: got better. I think if it lit dry and, and picked up, I think that that can be, that's interesting. Forgiven.
Bam Bam: I, I think so. I think
Gizmo: that could be forgiven, but a [01:56:00] whole half of a cigar at dryness.
It's so I don't think that would affect your rain. I agree.
Senator: Is it's the it's the length of time Yes. That that was part of the experience. Yeah. If it was just like, oh, you know, a quarter of the cigar is very dry and the other three quarters were great, it was exactly at the halfway point. It changed exactly when it changed.
Unusual and it just got worse. Is my problem, like mm-hmm. It, if it could have even just stayed where it started, the halfway point, you know, maybe I could have overlooked it, but it, it got to a point. I, I really did not enjoy. The last third at all. Mm. And um, it's just a shame. But you
Rooster: did, you did smoke it till the end.
Senator: Yeah. And I kept doing it just hoping that something that's, would take a turn that I think all of us did. Yeah. And it never did. Yeah. And, and that's why I just left so disappointed and it's such a shame because they did something so special in that first half. So I'm at an eight because there was something really special there, but too much of it just got completely lost.
And I hope, you know, this is a limited production cigar. I hope they take what worked in that [01:57:00] first half and find a way to make a standard production stick that is somewhat reminiscent of this. Because that was unlike most Nicaraguan cigars we've had. You know, none of us ever really suggest that Nicaraguan cigars are overly complex.
They are full flavor. It delivers, you know, a few notes in a way that lets you know it's there. But there's only few Nicaraguan cigars that you would say, like deliver this full palate experience where you're getting like so many different notes, so many things that are really stimulating your palate.
And the fact that this did that in the first half, I really pray that they find a way to replicate that. Yeah. In a way that can be consistent all the way through. So I'm at an eight and I say, you know, solid enough because I was so frustrated that last third that I even rounded up to an eight.
Gizmo: So I'm with Senator on most of his commentary.
Although I, I wasn't [01:58:00] teetering on a seven at any point. I was in that first half thinking, wow, this might be a nine or a 10 point. Sure. I really was thinking this cigar could almost be a 10. I was that into the first half of the cigar. It's very, at least nine and like we're talking about that, you know, kind of into the last third really was where it turned for me.
Even I got past that halfway point and it started getting drier and drier, as Senator was saying, and that's where it fell off. So for me it's an eight tonight. I, you know, I love the complete pallet coverage. At the beginning of the cigar. I think that was a real standout, especially for the makeup of the cigar.
I know the fermentation's a little bit longer. I know the age is a little longer, but we've seen very similar ingredients before in the blend, and I think tonight was a standout in the first half. Unfortunately, I'm not gonna say it again, but what Senator said about the second half was totally accurate.
I'll say one more comment. I do think, given the experience tonight, I think the price is a little high. I think this [01:59:00] cigar should be 12, $13. It should not be $17 MSRP. And then of course, when you get into higher priced markets, New York City, et cetera, this might be a 22, 20 $5 cigar easily. And that is a little egregious when you add on that tax and stuff.
But I'm not gonna knock it for that. It is what it is at a, you know, 14 bucks for us tonight. 17 bucks most places retail. But, uh, with all that being said, it's an eight for me. Grinder,
Grinder: it's an eight for me as well. I, I mean, you nailed it for me. The, um, the journey of the cigar, the final third was where it started to turn.
It didn't, it didn't start the half, uh, for senator as it did for senator, but definitely compound, like, compounded to, um, a pretty, a pretty like dry cracker. Um, and you know, I, the flavors at the beginning were awesome, that tingly was. The tingly feeling on, on the palette was incredible. On the tip. On the tip.
And [02:00:00] then, and then enveloped.
Senator: I was worried we had a new flavor note, tingly for a second. Tingly like Petco. Yeah,
Grinder: no, I, um, I loved it. Um, it just didn't, it didn't round out as well as I would've hoped. And I think that that was the, the key. It didn't, it wasn't, it wasn't a full, it wasn't the full Monty.
That's a good way of putting it. Yeah. Bam. Bam.
Bam Bam: You're up. I'm also at an eight. I like the variety here.
Gizmo: Hey, 188 episodes. We gotta keep changing it up.
Bam Bam: That's correct. Um, I think all your commentary's spot on. Um, you know what I love about their cigars? There is something unique about them. They're a little different.
They do have, overall on their stronger profile sticks, they're usually a little stronger than most cigars, but it's balanced with a touch of sweetness and creaminess.
Rooster: A little stronger.
Bam Bam: Yeah. Like they, they they're, they're stronger line of, they're cigars overall for me have that strength and sweetness combination that's a little unique.
Um, they do it in a [02:01:00] unique way for me. And I got that in the first half. To me it was like this,
Rooster: this is the strongest EP career I've ever had. Yeah. But
Senator: even some of their, I mean, I feel the opposite. I think that they actually have milder, milder nicaraguans than most, I don't know. That
Bam Bam: cigar that we had at pca a for me, that had a lot of body and it was
Senator: the allegiance.
Bam Bam: Yeah. That's a medium full flavored cigar. Medium. The sidekick medium, medium body. But for me, full flavored,
Gizmo: I think all their cigars are full flavored.
Bam Bam: I do too. Um, I think most of them are that allegiance is medium flavor and medium body in general.
Senator: You think so? I've smoked like 10 of them in the last couple months.
Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Bam Bam: So I think there was like, there's a signature that they have and I kind of experienced that in the first half, which I loved. I thought it was incredible. The dryness was outrageous. I don't think I've ever had a dryer cigar. At the end there. Yeah. I couldn't explain it. It was so dry. And this, even with
Gizmo: this long finish, like high proof protein, but honestly
Bam Bam: that kind of exasperated my palate.
Drinking this and having the dry cigar. It was really difficult to navigate. Very tough. But an eight's a great score, I think because the first half was so delicious. It's [02:02:00] warranted.
Gizmo: Alright boys, that's an easy one tonight. The formal lizard rating on the pic Cillo Encore Black and Rib Robusto is an 8.0.
Senator: Mm-hmm.
Gizmo: Let's compare that to the other EP Cillo we've done on the pod. We've done four others. On episode five, we did the pledge prequel in Rib Robusto got a 6.5 on episode 19. The La Historia El Senor scored an 8.8. On episode 87, the Pledge of Allegiance 2023 scored a 9.6. And finally on episode 126, the allegiance in sidekick scored a 9.0.
Bam Bam: Mm-hmm. Here's a question for you guys. What do you think? Is there any aging potential on this? Do you think if you let this sit for six months, could I don't think that's
Gizmo: gonna fix dryness?
Bam Bam: You don't think there could be a better transition from first to second? I don't think you fixed dryness. Maybe change somehow.
Gizmo: I, I, to me, age is, is, is marrying flavors, which obviously is not a problem here because the first half mm-hmm. Was excellent. Second, I think. Age eliminates harshness [02:03:00] or, or, or, or changes harshness, which wasn't a problem here. Otherwise, I, I don't see age being a positive factor in that. Second, the last
Bam Bam: third of this cigar.
I'd like to see you hold onto that box. Don't smoke it for six months and then try it. I think it could be interesting.
Gizmo: You've got a homework assignment, kids? Yes sir. I have a lot of homework assignments. Alright boys, what a great night tonight. A great, uh, conversation, a good pairing. And of course we had a wonderful interview with Lisette Perez Carillo.
So we have to thank her again for sitting down with us at PCA 2025. We really appreciate her time and, uh, would love to hear your comments on our conversation with her. We also have to thank our lizard of the week lizard, Derek, for that great question on Cigar greatness. I'm thinking about that still and I probably will continue to, so maybe we'll bring that back.
And of course, boys, we have to thank our sponsor, Fabrica five. They've been a great partner to us. They have some great specials running right now. And of course, don't forget to use our Code Blizzard Pod on their website, fabrica zero zero five.com. [02:04:00] When you support them, you support us and boys. We're coming up on episode 200.
We're a couple weeks away. Can't wait for that cigar. We'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, lounge lizards pod.com. That's lounge lizards PO d.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking. Email us hello@loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Lounge Lizards Pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.