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Viva Padel Kai Interview-esv2-50p-bg-10p-music-100p
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[00:00:00] Hey, Padel friends. Just got to Philly. Just got to this club, Viva Padel & Pickle. Looking forward to talking to Kai. When do you see yourself going in the, in the black here, breaking even? Operationally, we've been profitable since the first month. Wow. Congrats, man. Hey, Padel friends. This is Cez at Padel Smash TV, and I'm here in Philly in Viva Padel.
Next to me, we have Kai, uh, who is one of the owners here at this, uh, amazing Padel club. Kai, uh, welcome to the show. Thank you. Um, great club. We just played. You played am- you play amazing. Y- y- you pulled it at the end, though. I think it could have went either way, you know what I'm saying? But anyways, how did you get involved in this whole Padel, uh, you know, uh, club?
Uh, you know, I, I visited, um, the first club you guys had, right, and that's outside on a parking lot. Yep, on the roof of a building. Great club, great community. I mean, I was just amazed. Yeah. You know, so- Thank you ... how did that, that go into this club here, which is indoors? Yeah. So essentially, we have the partnership, um, [00:01:00] in, in the city.
Uh, so Andy, Mehdi, who you interviewed last time- Mm-hmm ... so the three of us was the, the main group. We're supported by, uh, very good investors, and then we had this unique opportunity in Flower Town, which is this club here. It used to be a tennis, uh, club for many years. I saw that. Do you see that more and more?
Because, I mean, real estate is the biggest issue, uh, most people trying to, you know, get into this industry are having, especially indoors. Um, are you seeing more and more tennis clubs kind of more vacant, and, uh, is that a good opportunity to get in, uh, as building a club there? Um, there's still a shortage of indoor courts.
Right. In Philadelphia, there is still a big tennis community. Yeah. But Padelphia, which is a, a- Yep, clear ... club of ours- First one, right? ... used to be a tennis club. Um, here, Chris McGarrity, who's the fourth partner, um, him and his family had owned this tennis club, uh, for many years, uh, multiple decades. And i- it was part of the vision that you just described, where he said, "Can I make it a little bit more dynamic?
Can I bring something new to the area?" Um, so [00:02:00] we have now five, uh, Padel courts, three pickleball courts, and then at the... I don't know if you saw in the back, I can take you there, where there's a full performance area. Okay. All right, great. Now, now, how... What is your part in this partnership? So I'm more kind of behind the scenes.
Um, so the three owners of Viva are Mehdi, who's our CEO. He runs the day-to-day. He makes all of the primary decisions. Uh, Andy is in, in real estate, so he's the one that's really helping us develop all these opportunities. So him and his partners own the parking lot downtown. Uh, it was his network that got us introduced to Chris.
Uh, and then I helped it out with the capital raise- Okay ... in structuring the company, both, uh, for downtown, and then structuring the partnership here with Chris McGarrity. Wow, seems like you guys have a good team. We are... We, we, we try to put, uh, all our best strengths, uh, together. And how important is that in, in, in, you know, in, you know, getting multiple clubs?
I think that's one of our [00:03:00] key, uh, differentiator is we have four individuals with- There's skill sets and the humility to work together. Um, and we're very collaborative. So, uh, everyone knows their strength, their weaknesses, and we're very open and transparent. We, we disagree all the time, but - It's always, uh, in, in a- Yeah
in a caring way. Yeah. Uh, okay, so now you have both clubs. Do you see, um, is the same, uh, community, uh, playing here as well as there? No. No? Okay. So I would say- The culture? ... the culture, we try to make it as similar as positi- uh, as possible- Yeah ... where it's beyond the court. Okay. Um, but, uh, I think the community itself is very different.
In, in Philadelphia, um, the sport's still not there. Okay. So there's a big pickleball scene, uh, so we get a lot of traffic that way. And then last year when we opened, we had to invest a lot of time, a lot of money, uh, to raise awareness. Here, we took a different strategic approach, um, where we kind of sit in the middle of multiple, [00:04:00] uh, country clubs where they've done a tremendous job, and we collaborate with them.
Yeah. We've done a... They've done a tremendous job of raising the awareness before we got here. So as soon as we got here, we were at capacity within a second week. Now, how does that work? Because how, how do the country clubs benefit, you know? Um, you know- Yeah ... how did you motivate them to help you out and, and help you kind of, uh, educate some of the people about this, this sport?
So I think, I would argue this area have some of the more capable directors. So Ann Maria, Germantown Cricket Club, Wychwood, Philly Cricket Club, they're very open. Um, I think some... Uh, I, I'm just saying the two of them are, just 'cause they come top of mind. We collaborate a lot with them. They're very open-minded.
They bring their people here. Um, we collaborate with them. Sometimes we go to their clubs as well. Um, and everything we do is to try to grow the sport, and that's the mindset, uh, from them and us. And when both parties apply that mindset, it's so much easier for us to create [00:05:00] events and, uh, create different ways to, to partner and, and, and grow the sport.
That's great. Now, you mentioned prior, in the other location you had to invest a lot in awareness. Uh, how did you do that? Um, what were the ways you did that? Um, multiple ways. So I think there's a traditional kind of boots on the ground marketing- Mm-hmm ... uh, where our networks, so- We, some people have kind of called us, like, the players club just because a lot of the better players in the area, uh, play at, at Viva.
Um, so that grows a network, and, uh, those individuals have been tremendous at helping us bring their friends and other racket sport players there. That's number one. Then we partnered with a PR firm, uh, last year called Punch Media. They were able to help us a lot on the PR side. So we got a lot of TV exposure.
Uh, they were able to bring multiple sets of influencers across different, uh, niche areas, and then they re-share. Um, and then we're also buying ads [00:06:00] ourselves and, and creating a digital presence, and we're doing some partnerships, so. So how long did you work with that PR, uh, firm? We did formally six months.
Okay. So it was June to December. Okay. And then, um, they were very helpful, and then now, um, we've kind of got a little bit more momentum, uh, so we're going to grow a little bit more organically ourselves. Of course. Um, but they're going to help us ad hoc. So, uh, when did you guys open here? We opened here late October, November.
Okay. Of last year. How's it going? When do you see the Uh, I guess when do you see yourself, um, going in the, in the black here? You know, breaking even. So we've been... So it depends how you think about it, but operationally, we've been- Yeah, operationally ... operationally we've been profitable since the first month.
Wow. Congrats, man. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, I think- Do you think it's because of the other location and just awareness and educate the matchup? The country clubs around here. The, the fact that we're at Viva, I think, um, we learned a t- tremendous from opening. You, you, you have to. There are things that you can prepare as much as, as you want- Right
[00:07:00] but the things that you learn it a lot. We brought a lot of the best practices here. Of course. And Chris McGarrity, our, our fourth partner, who's the main owner here for this particular location- Mm-hmm ... he's got a ton of experience, so that's, that's helped a lot. And you had to raise some funds, right, for this location here.
Uh, did you look at this location as ideal because you've already have the, the asphalt pretty much, right? And you don't really have to, uh, do the, the footings, you know? Um, and you have the height. You've got the AC. It's already kind of built like a, you know, like a club, like a racket club. So what was the, your in- what, what was your investment here to get this thing kinda going?
So for this, a lot of it, it was a unique opportunity, exactly as you mentioned, right? It's the, there's, it's tough to find locations with the ceiling heights, column spacing, uh, for paddle. Yeah. Um, but so we had to raise capital for renovating this area. Uh, the bathrooms and locker rooms were already good, just touch ups.
Damn, that was great, huh? Uh, so [00:08:00] just making it loo- look a little bit more modern with gray, black, you know, uh, for that feel. Um, and then the courts there, the pickleball courts, we had to obviously repaint them. Yeah. But it was flat already, like you said. Yeah. With, uh, the courts, and then we started to put, um, we, we started to put rings, uh- That's right
to put the pillars in. So is it safe to say over or half of, of a half a million dollars for- I would say a little, little bit over ... over. Okay. Well, this is, that is, is great. Yes. I mean, for indoor location, I mean, that is amazing. Your ROI, when do you see your ROI, you think- Uh ... this location? So this one we are Targeting, I'd have to check where we're at.
We're, we're above target already. Wow. Um, for sure. That's great. That, that's, that's... Congratulations, man. We, we did not think we'd be, uh, operation-wise profitable within the first or second month, but- You know what? It's like when, uh, when you do a good job of, of, you know, marketing the, the, this game and, and educating people, and once people get on the court, it's like they get [00:09:00] so addictive and, uh, and as you make it fun, and we're gonna talk about a little bit about that here.
Um, so you have five courts, correct? Okay, what court did you go with? Paddle Galas. Paddle Galas. Yes. Okay. Great court. And how about- Amazing partner ... the turf? Uh, I'd have to check with my partner exactly. It looked like it was a Mondo, a Mondo turf, right? It was- Or something similar ... probably, I mean, there's...
But we work with Paddle Galas, and they, they put us in touch and they supplied it. Okay. That's great. And then you have, uh, how many pickle courts you have? Three here. Three, okay. Do you see more people playing pickle or paddle or kinda like- Here? Yeah. Not even close. Paddle. Paddle. That's great. Uh, like if you're thinking about hours of consumption, the paddle is, per day per court, we're reaching six, seven.
Wow. So that's much beyond the peak hours. Yes. We're getting people out there. And then the pickleball court is much lower, and it's the opposite downtown. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. That's... Oh, it's the opposite. Downtown, yes. Wow. Downtown, the pickleball is already- The pickleball court, huh? Wow. Pickleball court, like today, today, all eight courts are filled because the [00:10:00] weather's so nice.
But- Yeah ... um, paddle, we're still building momentum, I would say, downtown. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. So How high are the ceilings here? At the peak, 32. Oh, okay. But we had to shift it slightly to be able to monetize the, the side over there to put a different pickup ball court, so it's about 30. 30. Oh, that's still really, really good.
At the middle, like, where the net is, it's 30, and then one side is 32. I think I did a lob there and it just grazed the top . Yeah, right. You... That was a perfect lob. Nobody said anything, so I was like, "Okay, good." Uh, okay. So I see a lot of Wilson stuff here. Yeah. Is that who you guys are collaborating with Wilson, or...?
We have a few. Okay. But Wilson is the primary one, so we're exclusive with balls. Um, the majority of our staff is Wilson. Okay. Um, and... And Wilson and Mehdi, my main partner is, he's full Wilson. Wilson. Okay. Now, what do they do for you? What, what do they do for you? Uh, they've been a great partner. So they helped with us putting the pro shop together.
Mm-hmm. So the majority of rackets that you [00:11:00] see up there are Wilson. Okay. All of the balls are Wilson. They give us a lot of the baskets, um, all, all of the tubes. Um, and then every time we run a big event, Scott, who's our, our main point of, of contact, um, he's always here with tents providing as many rackets as possible.
Um, and every time they are launching a new, uh, line of, uh, paddles, uh, like the Endure one- Mm-hmm ... they came and had our coach test them out, provide feedback. Oh. So it's a good collaborative partnership. Nice. Okay. So how about your coaches? Uh, how many coaches do you guys have? So right now we have about six part-time.
Okay. So Mehdi is the only one, but he doesn't count as one of the six. Okay. Um, but he's on court as well. Um, I spend a little bit of time on court, so but I won't count myself. So that's six. And then we have six part-time. They're all players. Um, and that's a model that's worked really well for us, again, to kind of stay profitable across both- Yeah
and have the fluidity across both s- both sides. Okay. And how about your leagues? Uh, you guys have leagues here? [00:12:00] So we just started a version of a league. Okay. Uh, but it's more on a weekly basis. G- guys will, uh, get together and play. Uh, and it's to start calibrating the WPR. Oh, gotcha. Um, that's the main reason, uh, that's driving it.
But we are thinking about putting a league together. But the NPL, um, has just taken a lot of people's time, and people- Right ... are very focused on that. So we need to find the right ways to work together. Right. And so what other tournaments are you guys gonna host? I know you said NPL. Yep. Uh, you're gonna do the USPA, I assume, or...?
Yes. So we've had two USPA here already. Right. Uh, we w- We, we got some feedback that players are getting addicted to the sport and they, they feel like they're improving. 'Cause again, going back to the coaches, that's a big differentiator of ours. We, we try to get them to improve, uh- Yeah ... and spend time, uh, and practice, not just playing.
Yeah. But then they wanted tournaments- Mm ... and we didn't have that many. So we were able to work with USPA to get two tournaments in, uh, February and March here. [00:13:00] Then we have two coming up in May and June downtown. One 100, one 250. Okay. And then we're probably going to do, uh, some of the WPR ones to fit the demand.
So how do you see the level here? It's, uh, mostly beginners, intermediates? Mm, so downtown it's either beginner, there's a little bit of intermediate. Okay. It's more like this, the curve. Gotcha. Um, here it's the opposite. Oh. I, I would say there's a lot of players in around the intermediate and, and higher intermediates.
So where do you think they're coming from? Uh, uh, different types of sports? The country clubs. Oh, the country club around. Yeah. All tennis, squash. Primarily tennis and squash, yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah, the squash players, they make good, good, good players. Same thing tennis. You saw today where- Yeah ... uh, one of the squash players getting, digging balls in the corner, you know?
Yeah, j- yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw that. But take, sometimes it takes a little time for them to transition, though, that's all, you know. But as long as they're willing to learn, they, no problem, you know? And some of them compete at the highest level in squash and, and tennis, so the [00:14:00] mentality is there. It's just spending some time w- with our coaches and, you know, adjusting the, the smash to a- Yeah
to a bandeja and- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... the corners. Okay. So what's the cost here to play, uh, for an hour and a half? So for an hour and a half, uh, per court- Yeah ... if you're a non-member is, it's, uh, 120 for an hour. Okay. So 180 for an hour and a half. Okay. And then if you're a member, uh, it's actually, uh... So that's 17, 26 and a half dollars per person.
Okay, okay. So, um, let's talk about the members and non-members. Uh, what are the benefits to becoming a member? How much is it? Yeah. So we have a few different types of membership. Okay. Um, after we analyzed the market, there's different demands. So we have our most basic one. That's 90 bucks, uh, a month. Okay.
And then instead of paying $30 every time you play per hour, um, you would be paying the 17 and a half. Wow. So instead of 45 for 90 minutes- That's, that's great ... it's 26. Um, then they have discounts on the [00:15:00] programming. Mm-hmm. Um, that's the, the primary one. Then we have a premium one, and it goes back to what we're talking, how do we fill those hours during the day?
This is a great location for it. So premium, um, they pay 180, and then they pay the same rates during peak hours. But non-peak, they play for free. Gotcha. Wow. So that helps us create demand. Wh- what, what is that, that timeframe? Uh, during the week is morning till 4:00 PM. Okay. And then, uh, on the weekends is all peak.
Okay. And then we have one more, um- Okay ... that's, uh, uh, 320, and that's all you can eat. All you can eat. Yes. Wow. And all of those also have varying, uh, benefits in terms of open play and, uh, So how many members do you guys have, and what are you aiming for in those three type of members? Yeah. So we just passed here 200.
Of which ones? Just all of them in general? Uh, ac- across the board. Okay. And we are seeing that the demand is a little bit too high for five [00:16:00] courts. Um- Okay ... so we actually are going to start capping some of the varying memberships so that we can ensure the quality of play and, and- Right ... and the available reservation is still there 'cause- Uh, it's great.
Uh, but they, they were so full. Right. But we still want to maintain some level of, uh, experience. That's great. Okay. So where, where's, where's the next club opening up? I know you guys are looking for... And, and what's the goal? I mean, are you guys looking, like, to raise more funds? How many clubs are you gonna open?
And at the end, is there an exit plan when this thing booms, or are you guys just gonna run this thing, uh, forever? Um, so first question around the third location. So- Okay ... I would say we are, we take a very opportunistic approach. Okay. Um, so wherever you go, you'll see that the models that we built downtown, it was a partnership with, uh, a real estate company- Yeah
so that, that Andy, one of our partners, is. Mm-hmm. Here we partner with Chris McGarrity and then his family. So everything we [00:17:00] do is very calculated. Um, so we are con- constantly probing, um, but we will only, um, lean into it if we can mitigate the risk on the operational side, so primarily real estate. Right.
So, okay, so kind of the same strategy you guys did for both of those. Right. So you're always looking for that to leverage that got you. Correct. That's very smart. We just learnt a tremendous from some of the European markets, um- Just reduces a lot of risk. Correct. You know? Uh- Correct ... you know, especially...
Well, I mean, right now we're, we're at the... It, it's lowest. You know, Padel's starting to grow- Mm-hmm ... and we don't know where it's going to go. Yep. And, you know, at what point there may be some type of balloon or adjustment, right? So- Yeah ... i- if you're in that situation, uh, you definitely reduce the risk for that.
Correct. At the end of the day, we don't want pricing to be our differentiator. Right. Of course. Uh, we want to differentiate on the programming and the experience that our members and non-members come in and, and feel when they're here. But [00:18:00] having that lever that we can pull into, uh, to, to reduce the prices if needed i- is something that we want to protect ourselves.
Now, do you guys see yourself exiting out of this once you get to a certain point? Um, I don't think there's a clear goal in terms of like, "Hey, we built this to package and sell." Okay. Mm-hmm. However, um, we do always want to keep an eye in terms of how the market is trending, uh, like you mentioned, right? If there's an oversupply of courts, um, is the demand going to continue to grow at the same pace?
Probably not, right? But then finding the right timing where if there's an exit opportunity, I think we're very open to it, but that's not the goal. Right. Right, right, right. Now, are you guys gonna go out of state, you think? Um, yes, but not, we're not going to stretch ourselves across the United States. Okay.
Um, again, goes back to the right opportunities. But we would like to continue to grow our brand, uh, within this area. Okay. So if we go a little bit into [00:19:00] Jersey, potentially, yes. Um, if a great opportunity happens, um, in Delaware or New York, yes. But in order to continue to guarantee the brand experience that we've developed here in Downtown, we need some level of proximity- Right
uh, at least at the beginning until we build a more scalable system. Right. Okay. So what platforms you guys decide to go with when it comes to scheduling? Play By Point. Play By Point. Yes. Now, you mind me asking why you went with Play By Point instead of Playtomic? Um, two reasons. I would say Play By Point at the time that we opened, uh, was the dominant one.
Yeah. So, um, it was a pretty easy decision. We, we looked at some other ones that were not specific. They didn't, didn't have really Padel experience yet, and we were not, uh, as impressed. And Playtomic are, are very good in terms of creating reservations. Um, but we do have a [00:20:00] very good relationship with the customer success manager at Play By Point.
Mm-hmm. Um, he's been great to us, and we ... Right now, that's who we want to do. That's, that's their strength, yeah. They- It's one of their strengths ... they go above and beyond. They're available whenever we need them. They try to be creative with us, um, and we value that a lot. Okay. So where can people find, uh, th- this club?
I mean, uh, on Instagram or what's, what's, what's, uh, what's your Instagram name? Uh, so Viva Padel and Pickleball. Okay. Um, and I can share it for you after. Yeah, yeah. But, um, but that's the main part where we kind of advertise a lot of our events. Uh, and then Play By Point. Of course. So if they're in the area, download P- they
Most people have Play By Point- Exactly ... or Playtomic. Could look up Viva Padel there. Yep. And, you know, and, you know, register as one of the programs or come and play. Yes. You know? Well, thanks so much, uh, Kai. Of course. I mean, incredible club, and congratulations, okay? Thank you so much. Good playing. Thanks for coming.
Yeah, you too.