Pilot to Pilot

welcome back to episode 332 of the Pilot to Pilot podcast. In todays podcast episode we talk about the journey of Tom, a commercial pilot transitioning from a successful engineering career to pursue his lifelong aspiration of becoming a professional pilot. Throughout the discussion, we delve into Tom's experiences with aircraft ownership, specifically his acquisition of a Cessna 150 and subsequently a Mooney, highlighting the financial aspects and the unique challenges associated with each. Tom shares valuable insights into his training process, which includes both traditional flight instruction and self-driven initiatives, underscoring the importance of perseverance in the face of uncertainty within the aviation industry. We also explore the emotional dynamics of pursuing such a significant career change, particularly regarding family support and the inherent risks involved in aviation. This episode serves as an inspiration for those contemplating a similar path, reinforcing the notion that dedication and passion can ultimately lead to the fulfillment of one's dreams in aviation.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

Garmin
Sirius XM Aviation
Ground School
Southern Illinois University
NetJets
Flexjet
Mooney
Cessna
Paradigm Aerobatics

What is Pilot to Pilot?

Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.

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sporty.com sxmoffer My.

Name is Tom on Instagram, it's
ommyfliesalot and tommyflies on YouTube

and I am a commercial pilot
working on a career change right

now.

So I'm a professional engineer
at the moment, but hopefully in the

near future sometime I'll
transition into being a professional

pilot.

That's the goal.

AV Nation what is going on?

And welcome back to the Pilot
to Pilot podcast.

My name is Justin Seems and I
am your host.

Today's episode is with Tom
from Tommy Flies a lot.

If you don't follow him, give
him a follow.

He's got a great account,
talks about buying airplanes, talks

about how he got into
aviation, how it was a lifelong dream

but he said know how to make
it work.

He didn't know how to pay for
it and he is currently in the process

of considering and going after
a lifelong goal of being a professional

pilot.

So if you are thinking about
making the switch, you're an engineer,

you're working a day job 9 to
5 and you want to fly.

This might be a good episode
for you as Tommy or Tom as he says

his friends call him is in the
process of doing it and he is going

through it.

He is still deciding, he's
still going through the process and

hopefully one day soon we'll
be seeing him flying some kind of

crazy cool commercial jet,
whether to the airlines or for regionals

or if it's for a fractional
company like I used to fly.

I hope you enjoyed this episode.

It was a lot of fun.

This is going to be a Friday
or Saturday release.

The release schedule is a
little bit wonky.

We will get back to Tuesdays.

As I said previously, there
are some health issues going on in

our family and just taking the
time to prioritize that and make

sure everything's okay.

So I appreciate you bearing
with me and there will be more podcasts

soon.

If you think anyone should be
on the podcast, send me an email

justin@pilotonthq.com I do
want to take time to pay my respects

to Rob Holland, who passed
away in a plane crash.

What was it yesterday?

As I'm recording this, it's an
awful thing for the aviation community.

He was such a great role model.

He was an amazing performer
and truly one of the best and from

what I've heard, one of the
best human beings that we could have

had to promote aviation, his
sport, everything he did.

So it's a terrible loss for aviation.

I pray for his family.

I pray for anyone that know
them and you're in my thoughts and

prayers.

But even without any further
ado, here's episode 332 with Tom

from Tommy Flies a lot.

Tom, what's going on, man?

Welcome to the Pilot the Pilot podcast.

Thanks, Justin.

Happy to have you on, man.

It's.

It's on the.

I always feel like I almost
50% of the time I feel like the first

thing I say after welcome is,
man, it's been a long time coming.

We've been talking, we've been
messaging, trying to make this happen.

But today we are here.

The timing has worked out.

I think we both just talked here.

We're both in the Carolinas.

You look outside, it's not the
nicest day out.

Maybe it's going to rain here soon.

So probably not much flying
for you going on right now.

But it's actually gorgeous
down here, man.

Is it?

Yeah, we got sunny skies.

It's windy today, but it's.

It's nice weather here.

You're talking to me.

You could be flying your
Mooney right now.

What are you doing?

Get out of here.

Oh, yeah, I got too much.

I got friends coming in from
out of town today, so no flying today,

but we'll be doing a lot this weekend.

Cool, dude.

Well, that's awesome.

The first thing I want to talk
about is the first question I ask

everyone.

Why aviation?

What was it about aviation
that got you interested in the first

place?

So I've been.

I don't want to say obsessed,
but I've been just about obsessed

with aviation since I was a
little kid.

And I'm a first generation
aviator, so when I was younger, it

was all flight simulator and
RC aircrafts, things like that.

But yeah, just since, since I
was very, very young, I've always

loved aviation.

What was it about, like, what
was it about aviation that you loved?

Especially with no one in
there to kind of help you foster

it?

Was it just kind of like, like
you said, like, you just looked up,

you're like, planes are cool.

And then, oh, I can play this
video game.

Oh, I can fly this RC plane.

Yeah.

I don't really know where it
came from.

Like I said, I just, I was
just naturally drawn to it as a young

kid.

It was, you know, I did a lot
of model rockets too, with my uncle,

things like that.

And yeah, just, I was just
naturally drawn to aviation.

I wanted to go to school for
it actually, and was actually talked

out of it by the college.

I went to, Southern Illinois
University, which is an aviation

school.

They talked you out of it?

And they talked me out of it.

Yeah, I went, I went there and
they looked at my, like, math scores

from high school and like, oh,
you're really good at math.

You should be an engineer.

And I was a young kid and
they're like, yeah, the aviation

market's terrible.

You could just fly later.

And you know, they're like,
like, don't go to, don't go to school

for aviation.

I was like, okay.

And so I changed my major and
went to school for engineering and,

you know, worked out.

But yeah, I was, I was talked
out of it.

Dang.

I mean, was this like 2000,
like early mid 2000s at time or late

2000s?

Yeah, it was, it was, yeah, 2008.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I went to.

I started college around the
same time, and terrible time to go

in aviation.

You know, no one was hiring
for pilots.

There's CFIs are making eight
to $10,000 a year.

Oh, yeah.

You had to have, what, 4,000
hours to be a regional pilot or even

like a cfi.

It was crazy.

Way different than it is right now.

But, you know, times change.

And their advice necessarily
wasn't the Wrong advice.

Because we always say, hey,
have a backup plan, which you have

a very good backup plan if,
Well, I guess this would become your,

Your new.

Your current job would become
your next backup plan if anything

went to crap with the market.

So you have a successful way
to make money if you need to, but

maybe it just delayed you
becoming a pilot for a little bit

longer.

Yeah, and I always tell
people, you know, gave me insight

into what, what else there is.

Right.

So now I know for sure, right.

After 15 years of working, you
know, for a large company and, and

as an engineer, now I know for
sure that that's not what I want

to do.

And, you know, when I'm
finally sitting in, in, you know,

the cockpit, I'll know, you
know, that that's what I want to

do.

You know what I'm saying?

So what, what would your
advice be to people that are in a

similar situation as you?

Someone that always wanted to
be a pilot, you know, maybe they

just didn't have the money to
do it at an early age.

Maybe they had to wait to put
15 hours, 15 hours, put 15 years

into work to be able to afford
the, the life that they want.

But what advice would you give
to someone that is thinking about

making the switch but is just
hesitant because, as you know, life

just gets comfortable, right?

Like, you have money, it's
safe or safer than transitioning

jobs to a career like aviation.

You probably think you have a
couple kids, you have a wife, and,

you know, it's just, it can be
very comfortable, very scary to move.

So what kind of encouragement
would you give to someone and what

would you say to someone
that's thinking about making this

decision?

Yeah, well, I haven't
completed it yet, so I haven't been

successful in that goal,
although I'm on my way.

So.

But what I would say is
exactly what you said.

You have to just, you have to
do it.

It's really easy when you've
got a cushy job, you're making good

money.

You know, I could, I can
continue this role for the rest of

my life.

The company I work for will be
there forever.

I could work my way up there
and make a really decent living.

It's just not.

I wouldn't be happy doing it.

So my advice would be just,
just to do it.

And, you know, I went a very
unique route into aviation.

I didn't, you know, I didn't
go to a flight school and rent airplanes.

You know, I, I was, like I
said, obsessed with aviation prior

to learning how to fly.

So I was able to go out and
buy my own airplane before I had

a licen.

I found an airplane.

It was a Cessna 150.

I knew that I wouldn't be able
to afford to rent an aircraft and

then I knew that after I got
my license I wouldn't be able to

afford to stay current.

So I knew I had to own my own aircraft.

So I had to wait to have the
means to do that.

So I delayed it even further.

I waited until I had the money
to buy the airplane, then found a

cfi, taught me how to fly on it.

And I've upgraded obviously
since then.

But you know, that would be my
advice probably if money is going

to be, be an issue.

Buying your buying an airplane
and learning how to fly it is, is

the best route.

Now there's risk involved with that.

Obviously there's, you're
responsible for the maintenance.

Aircraft ownership is a whole thing.

But for me, like I said, it
was something I knew I wanted to

do.

I'm also pretty mechanically
inclined, so I'm able to do a lot

of the work myself, you know,
under the supervision of amps and

things like that.

So it worked for me.

May not work for everyone, but
you know, like I said, it worked

out.

So what was the, what was the
purchase price of the, the 150 that

you got?

I bought, I bought it for just
over $30,000 and I sold it a year

later, just under a year.

So I didn't even have to
annual the aircraft.

I bought it right out of
annual for 30,000.

A year later I sold it right
before annual for 31,000 and I put

$200 on it.

So yeah, I mean there was some
maintenance, you know, in there,

but nothing huge.

It was like a couple hundred
bucks here, a couple hundred bucks

there.

So yeah, it was essentially a
thousand hour or 200 hours for free.

What was there a sell to buy a
new airplane or was it just like,

all right, this is too small
for what I need, I need to get something

bigger?

Yeah, I knew I had to sell it
because I was, you know, second I

got my, my pilot's license.

I flew around a little bit.

I knew I wanted to get right
into my instrument training and I

didn't want to outfit the
Cessna for that.

So yeah, I ended up finding,
finding a Mooney out in Seattle that

was also pretty cheap.

I think my Mooney, the first
Mooney was just under right around

$50,000, which was a really
good deal.

And yeah, me and my buddy got
a one way ticket out to Seattle you

know, we're in Charleston,
that's across the country.

And just sight unseen, I
bought the plane.

I mean, I had it, I had it pre
biden, things like that.

But first time we saw the
plane was the day that we flew it

all the way across the country
back to Charleston.

So it was pretty cool.

That is pretty cool.

What a, what a good journey
for your friend.

Is he in aviation at all or is
this kind of just like, hey man,

I bought a plane, let's go?

Yeah, no, he's a, he's a pilot.

Oh, cool.

I needed him to come with me
because I was not instrument rated

at the time and I knew that we
would be, you know, we wanted to

be able to fly in the, in the
weather if we had to.

So I brought him with.

I actually credit him shout
out to my buddy Lee for getting or

convincing me to buy the
airplane in the first place because

I always thought that an
airplane would be later on in life.

I was like, you know, I can't,
I'll never be able to afford an airplane.

That'll be a retirement goal
of mine.

And my buddy was like, dude,
you can afford an airplane.

And I was like, no, I can't.

He's like, yes, no, you can afford.

And he laid it all out for me
and showed me and I was like, holy

crap, I, I can afford an airplane.

So I bought my first.

It was first airplane, which
was the Cessna, and then him and

I flew out to Seattle together
and we're still good buddies, so

I love it.

That's awesome.

When.

So you bought the one or you
bought the Cessna, then you bought

the Mooney?

Yeah.

Looking back on it, do you
wish you just would have saved a

little bit more and just gone
all in on a, a bigger airplane that

was going to be more suited
for as you progressed in your training

or did you, if you go back,
would you do the same thing by the

152 and then move into the to
the Mooney a year later?

Yeah, I would do the same thing.

I thought about that beforehand.

I didn't want to jump into
something complex with retracks for

a bunch of reasons.

One, it's harder to learn on
and two, insurance is crazy on that

for a zero hour pilot.

That's a good point.

And the Cessna 150 I knew is a
proven aircraft.

The engine in it was proven.

You can still get parts for
it, mechanics know how to work on

it, and it's simple and easy
to fly.

And so that checked all the boxes.

I didn't Want to make the
learning process any more complex

than it had to be.

So that is one thing I tell
people to don't.

I mean, if you have an
opportunity to jump into something

for a good deal, you know,
maybe do it.

But if you can go the route of
flying something simple to begin

with, that would help me, or
excuse me, that.

That would help.

There's so much to.

When you're first learning how
to fly, and even when you're going

in ifr, I'm sure it was a
little bit of a.

Of a difference for you, like
having to wrap everything around,

put everything together, and
also remember to put the gear up,

remember to do the other things.

You know, it's.

There's a lot going on, and
then add more steps of what you need

to do can just make everything
a little bit more harder and just

delay you, like, a lesson or two.

But, like, you know, it's just
something else you got to think of,

especially if you're thinking
about buying your own plane or renting

your own plane, because you
know how it is when you go to the

FBO, they're like, all right,
we got this 152 for whatever.

This wet, or with the instructor.

This is the price of it.

Or we got the cirrus over
here, or we got this, you know, this

arrow over here.

And you're like, oh, I like
the arrow.

But it's like, yeah, but you
got to learn way more, and you got

to do 25 squared.

You got to remember.

You know, you got to remember
so many more things sometimes that

just keep it simple.

Stupid, right?

Like the.

There's a lot.

Lot to do in a complex aircraft.

But, you know, when I fly,
even with my airline buddies, they're

so used to just like you.

You guys are so used to, you
know, the.

The big jets, things like that.

When you get in these small,
complex aircraft, you're turning

knobs, twisting this.

I've got the manual gear lever
and the manual flaps.

And, you know, after takeoff,
you know, my buddy Andy is a Delta

pilot.

Was.

He's like, man, I don't know
what the hell you're doing in here.

It's like, there's so much to
do after takeoff.

I'm like, yeah, like, there's
a lot going on.

Yeah, there's a.

There's a lot that you forget when.

When you kind of move, make
your way into the career.

So you think you're doing.

You think it's gonna be super
complicated when you get to.

I mean, it can be complicated, right?

But you just forget so much of
what it was like flying ga and so

many GA or so many airline
pilots don't ever get back into ga.

You know, it's kind of a shame.

You think that you're always
going to have the opportunity to

fly these planes and you're
gonna make way more money, but it's

still expensive.

Doesn't matter if you're
making 400 grand, if you're making

30 grand or don't even have an
income, you know, and you're just

paying for training, it's
still going to be expensive.

You're not going to want to
rent the airplane.

And as you make more money,
most people spend more money.

So you usually end up having
more expensive on top of that.

Exactly.

Talking about your training,
how did training go for you?

You know, it was uneventful,
which is good.

Like I said, I reached out to
a local flight school just because

I knew that they would know
CFIs and said, hey, do you got anyone

who knows how to fly a 150 or
has time in 150?

And they had one instructor,
his name was Chris.

We're still friends now and
he's actually a part 130, I think

he flies for netjets now.

But oh nice.

And yeah, they hooked me up
with him and we, we got along great.

Which is an important thing to me.

Obviously if you're sitting in
a cockpit with somebody for 40, 50

hours, whatever it is, you
want to make sure, you know, you

guys mesh and get along and
your learning styles match.

That's another important thing.

And it went great and we did a
lot of fun stuff.

Since I owned the aircraft, we
could take it, you know, kind of

wherever we wanted.

We go to fly ins together and
we log time that way.

Then for my instrument
training, I just went on Facebook

and tried to find a local CFII
that could, that could teach me and

ended up getting lucky again.

Found a good instructor.

I stayed with him through my
commercial and then for my commercial

multi I went to a kind of an
accelerated course.

I think it was three days nice
in a baron and it was with some very

well known, a well known DPE
and cfi, Roger and Zenda.

I know people listen to the
podcast, will know who they are,

but I went to them and they
were, they were awesome.

And that was a lot of fun too.

I've heard of Zenda before.

Yeah, she's done a lot of
check rides and I always brag about

it because we were flying
together and she, you know, she had

me do steep Turns in the, in
the check ride.

And I did, I did my steep
turns and I swear to God that needle

didn't move a foot.

It was the best steep turns
I've ever done in my life.

I played it off like I always
did that, but you know, yeah, man,

those are the best steep turns
I've ever seen someone do in the

Baron.

And it was a huge compliment,
but I surprised myself.

I didn't tell her that.

But yeah, that's funny.

I always do worse with compliments.

Like if you're on a check ride
and someone gives me a compliment

like I'll mess something up
five minutes later she's like, right?

Are you kidding me?

What was that?

Yeah.

Oh yeah, yeah, she was, I
think she's pretty, pretty well known

in the Carolina area.

Like she think she has a lot
of the check rides.

I did all my check rides in
North Carolina with Joey Rogers out

of South Carolina.

Yeah, I know.

So I used to fly.

I used to fly from Monroe.

I remember my.

What is I flying?

I was flying the Arrow.

I think it was like a two
arrow 201 or just over high performance

and flew down to Florence, did
my commercial check ride, then flew

back and then did the same
thing with my multi engine with my

instructor.

So yeah, I had a lot of, a lot
of time down there.

But great, great instructors,
great DPS down in the area.

Yep.

For sure.

North Carolina's a great place
to train if anyone wants to come

down.

You don't have to go to
Florida, just go to North Carolina.

That's where Zenda was too.

She was in North Carolina.

I flew up there to do it.

So.

Yep.

So you, you're doing your
training, you're, you're kind of

learning how to fly.

Now today you say your goal is
to, to fly professionally, you want

to make the career change.

But when you were doing this,
was this just, just for love, just

for fun, for passion?

Yeah, it started that way.

So I started my aviation
career flying paramotors, actually.

Yeah.

And for those that are
listening, don't know what that is.

It's a paraglider, which is
like a kind of a parachute.

More efficient, but.

And then you just wear an
engine on your back.

Casualties.

Yeah, it always sounds crazier
than it is.

It's actually a very mundane
and safe way to fly.

I actually just sold my
paramotor this week, so it's gone.

I just hadn't had time to fly it.

But I started flying that once.

I discovered that in 2000 and
geez, when was it 15.

And that's what made aviation
accessible to me.

So it was.

I was into motorcycles and
dirt bikes and things like that.

And then I found paramotoring,
and I was like, that's what I'm doing.

There's no question.

Everyone thought, you know, I
was crazy because it wasn't as popular

as it is now.

But I got into paramotoring, got.

Got pretty good at it.

I ended up being sponsored by
a paramotor company at one point,

which helped me, you know, get
gear and things like that.

I flew on the Paradigm
Aerobatics team, which was a lot

of fun.

We actually performed at Sun N
Fun one year during the night show

in front of 30,000 people.

It was awesome.

So I had a lot of fun doing that.

And I kind of think that I'll
probably go back to it one day, but

that's how I got started in aviation.

So it was just for joy.

And then, like I said, once I
realized that I could finally afford

the airplane, then I started
thinking to myself, well, I might

be able to actually achieve
this goal that I had kind of put

out of my mind, which was that
I wanted to fly for a living.

And so once I saw it in front
of me, then I made the decision like,

okay, that's what I'm going to do.

And it worked out.

Yeah.

What is the goal right now?

Is it specific to airlines?

Is it charter?

Is it 135?

Do you have it kind of defined?

So in my ideal scenario, I'd
like to do, like, corporate aviation

for someone local to Charleston.

That'd be the goal.

I can't move, which is unfortunate.

I know that makes it harder to
find a job in aviation because my

wife and kids love it here.

My wife is killing it as well
in Charleston, so I'm not gonna uproot

them.

So if I could get a corporate
gig here, that would be awesome.

I wouldn't say no to the airlines.

If I could make that happen, I will.

So I'm keeping my options open
at the mom.

I don't have to make that
decision yet.

I've only got 900 hours total time.

I've got a little bit of time
before I have to start actually thinking

about it.

But, you know, if I can even
get a gig flying skydiver or something

like that.

I'm sending resumes out now,
trying to get just some.

Some work that way, and I'm
ferrying aircraft when I.

When I get the chance, so.

That's awesome.

Well, you live in a great spot
because, you know, if you choose

Delta, Atlanta's not too far away.

If Choose American, eventually
go to Charlotte.

That's not too far away.

I think they're both probably,
what, but an hour flight in the Mooney,

maybe less than that.

So if you want to commute by
airplane, there you go.

But.

And then netjets, Flexjet, fractionals.

I don't know Flexjets style of basing.

I know before I left the 135
corporate world, they changed it

a little bit, so it's not
truly home basing anymore from what

I remembered.

But NetJets is a great option
as well.

But you have time.

You have time to figure it out.

What's really fun is saying
yes to the opportunities that come

up.

And we might do an interview
in two years and you might be flying

the Goodyear Blimp.

Somehow it just like worked
out, you know, it's like you never

know what could come up.

And I would challenge you to
not be afraid to say yes to something

that obviously gives you the
opportunity to stay at home, seeing

your kids there, and talk
about loving South Carolina.

I mean, Charleston's one of my
favorite places in the whole world

outside of summertime,
summertime in Charleston is one of

the most brutal places.

But, you know, you got water,
you got pools, you can make it work,

and you got a plane.

You can go fly somewhere else
if you want to.

Exactly.

Yep.

Yeah.

Well, that's really cool that,
that you were able to finally do

this and you're able to
finally make this become a reality,

because so many people just
love aviation.

And I say that because
whenever I go somewhere with my wife,

being a doctor, all the
doctors, they don't want to talk

about medicine, they want to
talk about aviation.

When talking about being a
pilot, I'm just like, oh, my gosh,

I can't talk about this anymore.

Yeah.

You know, so it's really cool
that you're able to actually make

that a goal and a reality.

Yeah, I'm.

I'm enjoying the journey, that
is for sure.

You know, like I said, we, we
with the Mooney.

I can take the family places, too.

So we go back to Chicago,
which is where we're from, you know,

a couple times a year.

And it's, it's fun.

I'm trying to enjoy the
journey at the moment.

That's all you can do.

And if you can join the
journey, then you're enjoy where

you go, because you're going
to find out that usually what the

kind of the heart, what you
think the hard parts are now are

the most enjoyable parts and
the fondest memories you're going

to have in aviation.

Yep.

What part of Chicago?

Northwest suburbs.

Okay.

I don't know if you're familiar.

Like, I lived in Oak park for,
for four years and my wife went to

med school in Chicago.

Oh, cool.

Yeah.

So cool.

Yeah, Everybody followed me to
South Carolina, so my folks live

here now.

And like I said, I'm.

I'm here.

I can't, I'm not going anywhere.

Yeah, no, there's no way.

I do not miss the, the Chicago winters.

Sorry to my Chicago friends.

You should move especially for
the winter times because the winter

in the Carolinas are the best.

You know, the summers in the
Midwest are amazing, but the winters

are brutal.

It's still got hot sometimes,
you know, they still get hot and

humid, but yeah, nothing like
the extent that it does here.

But I'll take the hot and
humid over.

You know, it's March and
you're getting another 18 inch snowstorm

and you're like, holy smokes.

And then the next week you get tornadoes.

It's like, what is going on?

Yep.

Yeah.

What was it like with the
family, with the lifestyle change

of telling your wife like,
hey, I'm actually going to go be

a pilot.

Was she totally on board at
first or was she kind of hesitant?

No, I mean, my wife's amazing.

We've actually been together for.

She's gonna kill me.

I don't know, 17 or 18 years.

Very long time.

We're high school sweethearts.

So nice.

I don't even know how long
we've been married.

We've been married for a big
portion of that as well.

Yeah, no, you can leave it.

She knows if she asked me our
wedding anniversary, I think pretty

hard about it.

That's funny.

No, she's great.

I support her 100%.

Anything she wants to do, she
supports me 100%.

Obviously, when I told.

When I came home one day and I
was like, I'm gonna go buy an airplane,

I kind of spring that kind of
stuff on her.

I think about it in my head
for a long time before I let her

know that I've been thinking
about this and, you know, she was

kind of like, what are you
talking about?

You're gonna buy an airplane?

So that was a shock to her.

But once I told her that this
is my goal and this is what I want

to do.

Yeah, there's no question.

What was.

Does she have a fear of
getting in airplanes at all?

Was it pretty easy sell when
you told her you're gonna Buy one.

She's like, all right, you're
crazy, but I trust you.

I believe you.

She's not afraid of flying,
but she.

Her.

Her fear came from us both
being in an aircraft at the same

time.

And if something goes wrong,
then what happens to the kids?

So she's not, you know, she's
not afraid of the actual act of flying.

But, you know, like I said, we
fly together now, but before we ever

flew together, she made us,
you know, draft a will and all that

stuff, make sure it was all,
you know, laid out.

What exactly is going to happen?

So, like I said, she's not
afraid to fly, but she was very nervous

about it.

Just.

Just because of the boys.

Yeah, no, I mean, that's a.

That's a genius thing to think about.

And very smart on her end.

Yeah, that's something that my.

If I ever bought an airplane,
my wife would do, too.

You know, we might be similar,
but it's like we don't think about

the whole picture.

We don't think about
everything you're saying about plane

flying.

Fun.

Let's go.

It's like, well, okay, sit
down for a second.

We need to make sure there's a
plan just in case.

We need to make sure anything
does happen.

We know where our kids are
going to go.

Yep.

Yeah.

Now she doesn't even think
about it.

Right.

She gets in the plane and
falls asleep before off the Runway.

And same thing with the boys.

They just.

It's just another day.

To them, it's just the car to them.

They don't.

The act of flying isn't.

You know, they're.

They're.

They're spoiled.

But that's awesome.

As someone.

I followed your Instagram for
a while now, and I've seen you post

how buying an airplane is more
affordable than what a lot of people

think.

Can you talk a little about
that and talk about.

I think it was your buddy Lee
who explained it to you.

Kind of talk about what he
explained and what made it finally

click in your head that this
is an actual opportunity and you

buy an airplane.

Well, there's a lot of avenues
into it.

Like I said, I'm most familiar
with the avenue I took.

But, you know, you can.

You can finance aircraft, so
if, you know, if you can afford a

nice truck, then you can
probably afford an airplane.

At least.

At least some type of airplane.

That's what I always tell people.

It has to be something you
want to do, though, because obviously

flying is expensive.

The fuel is expensive.

The maintenance is expensive.

If you get a Hangar, it just,
you know, it has to be something

you really want to do it and
it can't be a kind of a passing hobby

or something like that.

And that, that in my opinion
is unsafe.

Also, if you're not going to
be all in and you're going to fly

infrequently or you're not,
you know, willing to, like I said,

go all in, then it's a safety
issue too.

But yeah, that's, that's,
that's the first one is you can finance.

And secondly, like I said, I
bought my first aircraft for $30,000.

So, you know, that's not terrible.

A lot of people think
airplanes are, you know, hundreds

of thousands or millions of
dollars and some of them are, but

there are smaller aircraft or
deals out there especially too that

you can get into.

And even my Mooney, you know,
I'm on my second Mooney now and I

own it with someone, right?

So my first two aircraft I own
by myself and the second Mooney,

the one I'm in now, I own with
another person, which cuts the cost

of everything in half, which
makes it even more affordable.

So there's, yeah, there's ways
into it that are, that are not that

expensive.

The other thing I do, and I'm
very fortunate about this or for

this is I work with a mechanic
who lets me do a lot of the work

myself under his supervision.

So I do owner assisted annuals
in my own hangar, right.

So he'll be there, tell me
what to do and I'll turn the wrenches

and do the actual work.

And that saves me a ton of money.

So I get charged for, you
know, the annual inspection cost

and the parts I use.

But a lot of the labor I'm
doing now I have to take, usually

I take two or three days off
of work every year.

I just planted in my vacation
every year to do my annual inspection.

Hopefully that's all it takes.

But that's another part too.

I save a lot of money by doing
that all myself.

And if I had to pay someone to
do that, it'd be a lot more expensive.

When you say something like that.

So when you are doing the
actual labor for it, you have an

amp that's kind of watching
over you.

Is it like actually them like
sitting in the hangar be like, all

right, so this is what you
need to do.

And they watch everything you
do or do they tell you what you need

to fix, you fix it.

Then they come one day and
they check it to make sure everything's

tight.

It depends on The A and P and
the regs are clear about this.

And there's actually a big.

A big, I don't know, hoopla
going on right now about this where

I forget what the regs say and
I forget which.

Which one it is.

But essentially it says that
they need to be.

The A and P needs to be
available for consultation when necessary.

Okay.

And in today's world, that
just means, you know, it could mean

face time, things like that.

But the FAA just issued a
legal interpretation of that statement,

and it says that the.

The amp has to be there with
you doing the work.

And a lot of people are
fighting that right now because it

makes.

It makes no sense.

And it also makes it harder
for amps to train other amps, because

that's how you get your
training, is you work under an amp

for X amount of hours, and
then you go take your test.

So you.

You know, and if the a.

If the amp has to be over your
shoulder the entire time, it's not

feasible.

So the way it works for us,
obviously, I've been working with

him for years now, so he knows
my skill level and knows what I can

do, and he trusts me to do the
work correctly.

And then if I don't know
something, I'll ask him too.

I'll say, hey, I don't know
how to do this, or could you give

me a hand?

And he'll walk over to the
hangar and do those things with me.

And then obviously, the final
inspection is all him.

He makes sure that every time
I do something, he checks it over,

make sure it's done correctly,
and then I can move on to the next

thing.

Yeah, it's one of those things
that the faa, like, in this instance,

how I interpret what the FAA
is doing is.

Is out of good.

Like, they think this is the
right thing to do, right?

They're like, this makes
sense, right?

Like, yeah, you do.

You need an amp to be there.

But they don't think the
practicality of it, like, all right,

well, we don't have a ton of amps.

We don't have enough for every
single aircraft owner to be able

to do this.

Or the cost is just too much
for this to actually happen, and

people can't afford to do this.

But at the same time, you
know, it is nice to have the oversight.

And you.

You, in theory, you want an
amp to be there at all times.

It's just not practical.

Right.

Like, it's just not possible
for every single person to do that.

And if you don't want to do it
like me, if I own an airplane, I'm

not going to be the one doing
the maintenance on my airplane.

You know, I'd be flying, be
like, wait, did I tighten that all

the way?

Like, oh crap.

When you're owning your own
airplane, you know, and you had the

second Mooney, we'll go with that.

But you finally bought the
second Mooney and now you're on,

or, sorry, you're on your
second Mooney.

Now, do you think this is you
a forever aircraft or you think you're

going to continue to try to
build as your mission grows with

your family?

I would keep it if I could.

I love the Mooney.

The only thing is the, you
know, as my family grows, I'll outgrow

the useful load of the aircraft.

So, you know, the back seats
in the Mooney, I can fit adults back

there, but it's tight and then
the weight becomes an issue.

Right.

As the kids grow, we can take
less and less bags and eventually

it'll be at the point where we
won't be able to take trips together.

So I, I don't know what's next
for me.

I don't know, you know, maybe
it's an A36 bonanza, you know, something

like that, something with six
seats where we can, they can stretch

out a little bit in the back.

I think that might be
attainable at one point.

I've been on barnstorm wars
and I'm not finding any A36s for

30 or $40,000.

Yeah, they're expensive.

I mean, like I said this, the
smoothie I'm in now is not cheap

either.

So it's, it's fractional ownership.

Yeah, you know, me and one
other guy.

So maybe that is the way I go
in the future is, you know, own a

bonanza with somebody, which
would be fine.

But yeah, eventually,
eventually we'll grow out of it.

It'll be unfortunate because
the Mooney's great.

I, you know, I cruise 150
knots plus, and that's true.

And so I can get 155, 156 out
of it if I push it and that's burning,

you know, and then, you know,
if I'm going easy and I'm flying

150 true, I'll burn just, just
below nine gallons an hour.

And I've got a 900 pound
useful load in it.

So it's, it's great aircraft.

It's only got four cylinders,
so the maintenance is cheaper.

Yeah, it's got a manual gear,
manual flaps, everything like that.

So it's manual flaps.

Big fan.

Great airplane.

Yeah.

Big fan of manual flaps.

Me too.

Is that a Johnson bar?

Yep.

Johnson bar gear?

Yep.

Yeah.

So it, it's really, it's,
it's, it's the perfect plane, I think.

Yeah.

If it just had a little more room.

Just.

Yeah.

Mooney's have never been known
to be the most spacious aircraft

in the world.

I'm 6 foot 2, I've sat in one
Mooney and I think it was a J model

and I could make it work, but
I don't think I could have someone

sitting behind me.

So essentially make my four
seat plane a three seat plane.

And that's not ideal unless, I
mean, unless it's just me, my wife

and Emmett and that works out.

But yeah, yeah, yeah, Mooney's
a great.

Have you had any issues when
you were transitioning to the Mooney?

You know, it's much faster airplane.

Moonies are very, very, it's
very important.

You have your speeds right
when you're coming on the land.

If you're too fast, there's a
lot of videos out there of Mooney's

overrunning four or five
thousand foot runways.

So do you have any issues at
all when you were figuring it all

out?

Yeah.

So my buddy owned a Mooney
Lee, that I was talking about earlier,

before this.

So I did get to fly in one a
little bit and pick his brain about

it.

And all those things you said
I knew before I bought the Mooney.

Right?

Yeah.

But a lot of that stuff is
pilots not knowing how to fly it.

So that was one thing I
budgeted for when I bought the Mooney.

I budgeted to hire somebody
who knew how to fly Mooney.

So it was somebody from a
company called Mooney Pros.

I paid him to come out and
train me to fly the Mooney for two

or three days, I think it was.

And that was the best money I
ever spent.

So, I mean, he taught me
everything he knew about the aircraft,

how to fly it.

We pushed it to the limits
that I would not go to on my own

or that, you know, a CFI that
didn't understand Mooney's would

go to.

But that, that was, that was,
yeah, like I said, the best money

I spent transitioning into the Mooney.

Even though I did that, you
know, I still, I took it easy for

a long time.

I didn't take passengers for a
long time.

Especially, you know, my wife
and kids, they didn't go in the Mooney

for a very long after I owned it.

And you Know you mentioned
things like overrunning the Runway.

You know, everyone says the
Moonies float down the Runway and

that's true if you're, if you
don't honor your, your V speeds.

Right.

For me it's, it's 80 miles per
hour over the numbers, not 85, not

82.

It's 80 miles an hour over the threshold.

And, and if you're not on 80,
you will float down the Runway in

my plane.

So, you know, but, but if
you're, if you're, you know, disciplined

about that, that it's, it's,
it's an easy aircraft to fly.

Yeah.

It's one of those things that
when you get scared of an airplane

because of so many things that
have happened.

Yeah.

It's not the airplane's fault,
it's the people flying.

A lot of times now there's
obviously circumstances that things

can happen, it can be there
something can happen where it's not

the pilot's fault.

I'm not trying to blame pilots
for any, any kind of issues that

have happened in the past the
Moonies, but once you truly understand

how the airplane flies and
there's a lot of planes like this,

I think the Lancer is another
plane where there's a lot of, I think

it was based to final turns
where people just do steep spirals

cuz too slow.

So maintaining your speed is
huge in any airplane you fly in it.

It gets more important the
bigger airplanes you fly, you fly

jets, you know, you gotta be
on speed, you gotta be stable, you

gotta be all this.

So learning in a plane like a
Mooney or learning to be stable as

early as your, your 1:50 or
1:72 is just a incredible skill to

have to carry on for your
whole career and your whole flight

training.

Yeah.

I'll tell you a story too.

After the, after flying the
Cessna for so long, an hour flight

in the Cessna was, you know, I
don't know what it was, but it was

X amount of distance right
from my home base.

Maybe Myrtle Beach.

Yeah, yeah.

It'd probably get me there.

Yeah.

So, you know, after I had the
Mooney, I was, you know, I had a

couple hours in the morning
and I go to do a flight and I checked

the weather and the weather is
degrading as the day goes on.

But it's not supposed to get
bad until, you know, later on in

the afternoon.

So I'm thinking, okay, I have
time and I go and I go fly.

Not used to or anticipating
how fast the Mooney was compared

to the Cessna.

So an Hour flight out.

I was really far away from home.

And then the weather came in
faster than it was forecasted to

by a lot, like, I don't know,
hours ahead of what it was forecasted

to.

And so I'm far away from home.

I'm not instrument rated at
this time.

The ceiling is dropping and
the, the tops are rising and I'm.

And I'm getting pushed up by
the tops and there's no holes underneath

me.

And I'm freaking out.

I'm running low on fuel.

And it was all because I
didn't anticipate the fact that I'd

be so far away in this now,
much faster aircraft.

It ended okay, but I was so
shaken up from it.

Very long story short, I found
a hole in the clouds.

I, you know, I spiraled down
through it and I just skirted, you

know, treetops basically, to
find the airport that was nearby.

Use foreflight to find it.

And I landed the plane and I
left it there.

Like I said, I was an hour and
a half from home.

I called my stepdad.

I was like, hey, man, you
gotta come get me.

I can't fly anymore.

Even though the weather
started improving after that, I was

so shaken up from making that
very poor decision.

And like I said, running low
on fuel and being above the clouds,

not instrument rated and, you
know, it was a.

It was scary.

But I, you know, like I said,
I just didn't anticipate how far

the Mooney would take me
compared to the Cessna.

Yeah, I mean, unfortunately,
learn how to be the best pilot possible

by either making the mistakes
ourselves or hearing about someone

that has made a mistake in the past.

It's not something you ever
want to do.

It's not something you ever
want to happen to be in that position

and choose wrong or push
safety or just kind of not really

understand what you're getting
yourself into.

But it's important to never
make the mistake again.

And it's also important to
share stories like that because it's

very impressionable for people
when I could be up flying my Mooney

and I could be like, oh, this
looks like a lot what Tom was talking

about.

So maybe I'm just gonna sit
here because it did not go well for

him, and chances are it's not
gonna go well for me either.

So let's just sit here and
we'll chill.

So it can be really difficult.

Especially, you know, you're
early on in your training.

You're like, oh, my God, I get
home, my wife, my kids, you know,

pushing it, pushing it.

Pushing.

It's like, yeah.

I think one dangerous
mentality is always just like, all

right, well, I'll fly as long
as I can, then I'll stop.

It's like, you never know.

So you're always going to try
to go a little bit too far, and then

when you stop, it might be too late.

So something to take in mind.

The best.

The best thing you can do
sometimes is wake up and say no and

just be on the ground.

Yep.

Yeah.

Get there.

Itis.

I felt it, I've succumbed to
it and I've gotten away with it.

And so I'm better at it now.

You know, like I said, I
always tell people that the greatest

piece of safety equipment you
have is your credit card.

Right.

So you're out somewhere, just
go get a hotel room for a night,

it's 100 bucks.

You know, sleep it out and
wait for better weather.

That's what, you know, that's
what I always tell people.

Yeah.

Or rent a car.

If you're an hour and a half
away, just go rent a car, you know,

drive back and you can get a
couple days later.

So I've done that.

I left my Mooney in Florida
one time.

We flew the family down this
before I was instrument rated.

It was supposed to be.

It was good weather on the way
down, and forecast three days later

was supposed to be good weather.

And then, you know, three days
later, the weather wasn't looking

as good.

And I wasn't sure.

It was a toss up.

It was one of those things
where it could be good or it might

not be.

And I, you know, told my wife,
I was like, we're not going to risk

it, especially with you guys
in the plane.

And so we left the Mooney in
Tampa and rented a car and drove

11 hours home because it was
horrible traffic.

And then the whole way home,
it was clear skies.

It was like we.

I was looking up, thinking,
like, damn it.

But, you know, I didn't.

I knew it was the right
decision still.

I was like, I'd much rather be
down here looking up, thinking, we

could have done it, than be up
there with the kids in the plane

and her on the plane thinking,
wow, we really shouldn't have done

this.

Yeah.

It could have led to a
divorce, if not worse.

Right?

Yeah.

That would have been the best
case scenario if you took off in

bad weather.

Right.

Yeah.

So all it cost me was a drive,
rented car.

I obviously had to buy a plane
ticket to fly back and get the aircraft.

But, yeah, I've made that
decision many times.

Yeah.

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episode.

I want to talk more about
flying paramotors.

I've never really talked to
anyone about that.

I've been to Oshkosh before.

I've, I've seen kind of, I
think it was similar where you talked

about sun and fun with doing
the night show.

Yeah.

So you just, have you
mentioned to say like it wasn't the

cool thing to do back then but
how did you like, how does someone

get into paramotors?

You mentioned it.

As I wrote dirt bikes, I was
outside, you know, and I just got

a paramotor.

It's like, did you just throw
an engine on your back and a parachute

and just like, all right,
cool, we're gonna just go run and

up your flying.

Yeah, I mean, pretty much.

So I saw a video on YouTube.

A lot of people credit this
guy Tucker got, he's a, he's a, the

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