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Dr. John Sherk, owner and president of Operations Laboratory reveals all of his HVAC technician career happiness strategies, income improvements and killer tech-happiness tips and tricks so you can get ahead of the curve with your HVAC technician career. Discover how you can create a quality negotiated agreement with your manager that works for you so that you can have the time and freedom to do what you love, whether it’s coaching your kids’ teams, getting out there for hunting season, or just living comfortably at home with your family. Since 2010, he’s been consulting his many HVAC clients on how to develop and manage a culture that is friendly to tech-happiness, and here he openly shares his wins, his losses, and all the lessons in between with the community of energetic but humble HVAC techs, managers, and owners who follow him. Self-proclaimed “Technician Happiness Guru” you’ll learn about getting paid what you deserve, building genuine and loyal relationships at work and at home, recruiting winners (tip: they all already work for someone else), building a tech-happy culture, quality communication, skills mastery, optimizing performance, negotiating compensation, professionalism, , and productivity tips so that you create an amazing, tech-happy life without burning yourself out. It’s a mix of interviews, special co-hosts and solo shows from John you’re not going to want to miss. Hit subscribe, and get ready to change your life.
00:02 All right, everybody. Welcome to the HVAC JoyLab podcast. I am here with Everett. Lipel. Very good. All right. who has the sales sales podcast has a lot of experience in the air conditioning business and the field as well as a podcaster.
00:22 So Everett, welcome. you, Mr. Shirk. I appreciate you. Oh, thank you very much. Thank you. So listen, let's get started.
00:31 started with your story. Let everybody, you know, tell everybody your story, how you got into the business, how you got to this point.
00:40 So my buddy was working for a car dealership and he was, incidentally, he's an amazing guy and what happened was he sold a car.
00:51 He's actually managing the car dealership. He sold a car to a guy who was an owner of a next-star company and And he was actually this guy, okay, he's named John Welman, Welman Home Services in New Jersey.
01:06 This guy actually started, it was one of the godfathers of Neckstars. He pictures of when the Neckstar first started, this was one of the first companies.
01:16 And he goes and he loves my buddy and he goes, Russ, I need to hire you. I need to hire you.
01:22 I need you to come. And my buddy Russ goes, I don't know anything about plumbing. I don't know anything about air conditioning or anything about any of this.
01:27 He's like, no, no, we're going to train you, we'll send you out. I need a guy like you on my team.
01:32 And so what do you know, my buddy went to go work over there and slowly but surely he started bringing, we were all in different industries.
01:41 And at the time, actually early on, this is the early 2000s, 2004, five, six, no, actually, it actually might have been seven, seven or eight.
01:50 And he was, I was working for the mortgage industry at the time. And he goes, which is so crazy, right?
01:55 So he goes, hey, I want you to come try this out. So anyway, he got me a job at a big company.
02:02 He had moved on because he moved. So he bought for another big company, which most people know in Jersey. And what happened was he started bringing people over one by one.
02:12 All these people that we knew, and people from different industries. And he was like, guys, but we were surrounded but we were like a network of salespeople, right?
02:21 So I didn't understand HVS. I didn't know HVS. I went backwards. words. I went all the way backwards there. I needed, I was obsessive about learning the technical side of things that I went and went backwards into a master license.
02:32 So I, I, I went, I went the, I went the, I went most sales guys don't do, but I went backwards and it became a student of the game.
02:41 into, you know, own my own shop for a while. Had a partner, unfortunately, that, that was, I didn't work out, but I'm, you know, yeah.
02:50 So I mean, well, there was theft involved but long story short, it didn't it didn't work. and so I've been running and managing Operations and sales teams for the last, you know, probably about seven or eight years.
03:03 There was one I was in success group international and next door and what's his certain path now? SGI is not certain path So I went to I was at a conference and I'm from New Jersey But I went to a conference and the conference I met a guy who owned a business in Dallas and he said Hey, man, I need you
03:21 to work for me because I need you to come help me build this business in Dallas and I said, okay I mean it was took a few couple years to get there whatever long story short I moved me and all my kids and everybody to Texas to Dallas and is the biggest move ever I would not recommend it to anybody.
03:39 I wouldn't say well, I'd say if you're gonna move cross-country First of all, don't have kids or if you are gonna do it which we I have plenty of friends here that I've done it if you are gonna do it then You have to have fortitude.
03:51 You have to just understand like, you know, things are going to change, things are going to be much, much different.
03:56 We was the best thing we ever did. But I would just say, I just don't recommend it because it's such a difficult thing to do and, you know, moving away from everybody.
04:03 So long story short, it was, it was the best thing we ever did. I've been in Dallas not five years.
04:10 I was the director of sales for so a wholesaler brought me in to do consulting work for them. And they were a pack-picking ship distributor.
04:18 They brought me in to, because I'd just been coaching training on my own and consulting. And so I was just, but I came across this company.
04:26 This company was like, no, no, no, we love your business, build them a business plan, said, hey, we want you to come and work for us.
04:33 And so I actually went there. I was there for two years. That company was acquired. If I have large manufacturer.
04:40 So we built it up. It was actually really good. So I had about a team of about 20 people there and then I went on and I ran the branch here for ARS for almost two years.
04:51 And so I started my podcast. I started my podcast in January. I had been thinking about it for years. And the sales sales podcast so I was in this house is the tagline.
05:04 Again, the purpose of this was that everybody was doing business building podcasts, everybody and I'm not opposed. I love it.
05:13 I listened to them service business mastery, Tersh and Josh for some of my favorite guys in the world. I love them.
05:19 HVC and censored a little bit different, but again, like just awesome podcasts and what I wanted to do was the best conversations I ever had with other service technicians, other sales reps, the best, the best conversations I ever had with to help me communicate better to help my teams communicate better
05:41 to have my service text and my sales reps communicate better was always getting to the root of like calls. And also listen, there's a lot of funny and crazy calls that happen out there.
05:51 I mean, everybody's been in that hoarder house. Everybody's been in that house that they just can't explain. So if people come on, they tell these stories.
05:58 and it's the podcast just taken over. I mean, I can't even believe how many, I've had engagement, which is through the roof.
06:04 It's like people come on, they tell stories about stuff that happened in houses and everybody's got a hoarder story and everybody's got, I'll tell you one that it's funny too and I ask the same question on every podcast.
06:15 tagline of the podcast is so I was in this house because that's how most of the story start, right? I ask this same question.
06:23 and I say, what is one service call, one sales call, one experience you've had, customer experience that you've had, that lives with you, that you take with you wherever you go.
06:37 Story that maybe a customer told you, I can remember that story today. It happened 10, like probably seven, eight years ago.
06:45 I can remember it like it was yesterday. And I've told that story too. And it was a World War II surviving woman who escaped Germany at the time and, you know, she married an American soldier and it just stayed with me forever.
06:58 And that's where that was the genesis of the podcast was really to get to it. And also, there's been a lot of hilarious stories.
07:05 I mean, dude, it's amazing the amount of women that will answer their door in almost nothing. has a story of a woman in a robe or a woman wearing basically nothing, you know, when the young gentleman comes to you comes a calling.
07:22 Yeah. I told you off air that one of my favorites was just this is a guy named Indianapolis, a tech Indianapolis.
07:31 He said, John, I got one piece of advice for if you're going to be a residential technician, if you go to a house and they've got a monkey, don't pet it.
07:39 Don't pet the monkey. know, the weirdest pet I ever saw was a pet pig and it was not a small pig like a pop belly.
07:47 This was a full blown pig walking around the house, ruining the floors. And it was funny and I asked the guy, I'm like, hey man, let me ask you, do you eat like bacon or ham or anything like that?
08:00 And he's like, I mean, I do sometimes and like I try to hide it. I try to hide it from him.
08:09 I'm like, okay. it keeps the Pagan line. He's like, Hey, you're next. If you don't get in line over, man, came to imagine it's so weird that I have a pet that's a pig.
08:19 And then I didn't take it in front of the pig. shoot. Well, listen, Everett, I'm curious about your thoughts. The purpose of the podcast is to generate more and more conversations about what makes a good life for a technician.
08:33 we talked some about the topic of, you you know, technicians asking themselves, do I stay or do I go in my current job?
08:42 I've done some podcasts on this before, but I'm interested in your thoughts on this. Like, do you have a kind of a decision making matrix or is it more of a gut level thing or how do you see that decision?
08:53 Well, I haven't always made the right decisions in my career and so I've learned a lot from it. I think, first and foremost, a lot of our businesses that we work for are small.
09:07 Some are definitely larger. I find that I can thrive in a more sort of sophisticated, you know, processed environment, but I would ask that of the first thing you'd probably ask yourself is, hey, culturally, is this a good fit?
09:27 You know what I mean? And it's tough because before you get in there, you don't necessarily know what everything, But I asked the right questions, right, and get a feel for like what kind of culture they run there, right?
09:38 Are they doing company events where, you know, they've got team building events? Are they doing, you know, are they offering training in any sort of way?
09:47 And if that's not what you want, if really, if all you really want is you want to go to somewhere, you want to put your head down, you want to go to work and you don't want any of that stuff, then go find a place like that.
09:56 I would say, and this is, you know, sales 101, and it's sales 101, is, you know, sales in general is a, is a, is a transfer of belief.
10:08 If you are a service technician and you don't think that you're in some sort of sale, I don't care if you're just a fix it guy, just, you never even talk to a customer.
10:18 You're representing a company that is charging something for a product or a service. And that is a transaction that is a sale, no matter what you try to say, no matter how much of a fixed guy you are, that is a sale.
10:32 And I would say if you don't believe in the product, which is the company that you're representing, then you can't work there.
10:38 So I'd say if you have problems intrinsically with anything that that company does, then I'd say no. But culturally, I'd find if, so on that, right?
10:48 Make sure you have a transfer of belief of what that company represents. And you know, make sure you work for somebody that you can really see yourself actually working for, where at the end of the day, is this person going to grow me and foster growth and development with me off, you know, make sure
11:08 that I get the sort of support that I need in whatever way that might be. There may be a number of ways that you get support.
11:16 if you're a super independent guy and you don't want to get bothered, maybe you have a guy that gets off your back and that's what you might need.
11:26 But you can chase the buck at the end of the day. I think that there are places that are going to pay more and if money is really, really important to you and you find a place that's, hey, they're paying me more and ask yourself this.
11:42 Can I work for this place regardless of the money? Am I going to be happy? Because I've seen people who have made more money in places and then they leave because they're not.
11:51 They can't do it. They can't work for that individual. There's either too much pressure on them or it's not the right cultural fit.
12:00 So those things. So yes, do I have a matrix? I think it's a mental checkbox, but I don't think it's as sophisticated as because I have the poke and prod.
12:12 And even with my sales process, I have a checklist. But it's I don't do the checklist in order necessarily. Most of the time I do the checklist in order.
12:22 But I want that experience for that homeowner to be a symbiotic relationship. I want there to be less roboticism involved.
12:32 So it becomes a much more difficult process to get. So then the process of going to find an employer can be, can definitely be difficult to do, especially because you can't see the inner workings day to day.
12:48 Ideally, you'd probably want to work for somewhere that somebody you know has gone to work for. Somebody, yeah. So, you know, and then say, hey, we love, I love it here.
12:58 That's probably the best route to go around. But the first thing I'd say to anybody who is in a, you know, in a company that they're like, I want to go make more money or whatever.
13:09 And if you like working there, go to your employer. Let them know, hey, I don't want to go anywhere. There's a shortage of trades people in this business.
13:18 And I don't want to be one of those people that goes. And that's if you want to stay there. I think a lot of times people leave John because they don't feel like they're being utilized in the way that they should be.
13:34 And that's a failure of leadership. And that's a whole different story, and I think that if people felt more utilized the way they should.
13:45 So, but it's also, I think the technicians job, I can tell you right now, I've been approached, I've had people come to my office and go, hey man, I know that I had an installer who wanted to do sales.
13:59 And he was like, I know I'm an installer, but let me tell you something, I'm willing I'm willing to put my head down.
14:05 I'm willing to go ahead and do this. And but they made me aware. And I'll tell you, as a leader, and I don't know how other people feel like they feel annoyed about it, then shame on you.
14:15 But I like that. Come tell me that you have aspirations that you want to move on, that you want to go do something special.
14:22 You want to learn a new, you know, a new, whatever it is, a new trade, new skill. I love that.
14:28 And taking the initiative of, people are afraid to talk up. They're afraid to speak up. They're afraid. Oh, I don't I don't know what they'll say because people feel rejection Yeah, and you can't get anything in life if you don't really ask for it, right?
14:39 Things that you don't come to you Well, I really think every that that the best version of a technician leaving one company and going to another one Is rooted in the idea that they want an opportunity that doesn't exist in their current company like that's the best version of that It isn't it there's
14:55 no kind of F you to the current company. They they leave they end up leaving on good terms They understand why they're leaving.
15:04 It's that, and the opportunity could be anything from those guys have a really great training program and I have to learn to those guys are offering me a sales position and I don't have that here, to I get to be a sales manager or not sales service manager over there.
15:19 I don't have the chance here. I mean, that's the best version, I think, of that move because everybody understands no one has any hard feelings.
15:28 It's sadness for the people who don't want to lose the guy. So that was for the guy who would really not rather leave, but, but the industry is growing.
15:36 The guy is growing somebody underneath where that guy is gets to move up into his spot. So it, you know, that, that's all good.
15:44 The natural progression. Now I worked with an install manager at my here in Dallas and he actually did leave exactly for that reason.
15:55 and he became like an operations manager, which was kind of an uptick. And he was sort of sales operations. And the irony of it was that he really didn't have much experience on the sales side of things.
16:09 He had some, but he didn't really have it. And but the company that he went from, and this is a lesson too, the company that he came from required seven days a week.
16:20 There was no, there was installs pretty much every single day, could never leave his phone, could never, never. But there was never a time.
16:28 And that was not no quality of life for him. So if he had to go open the warehouse so that everybody could get their stuff out there, it was painful and grueling.
16:38 And unfortunately, it was a failure of the business to find somebody that he could sort of could delegate a little bit of responsibility to you on certain days, which technically he could, but it was, it didn't matter because he was like, him, him, him, him, him.
16:52 him. And, and that was a failure of the company and the company really didn't care. It was like, oh, seven days a week, we'll slave drive you and we'll lose you.
17:00 And that company has a, you know, a reputation of losing a lot of employees. And unfortunately, if you're so, yeah, if you're so deep rooted in your processes and whatever you do and you don't actually take a chance to sit back and reflect, take inventory of your people, take inventory of the things
17:19 that you're doing. I mean, you're never growing. Then you're just going to stay in your process that you've been in.
17:24 And listen, the days, John, the days of back in the day, when you used to hire a guy, and you know, he'd put his head down and work for 15 or 20 years, you know, and then retire.
17:34 Like those days are over. Like he is so rare right now that a guy, it just doesn't happen anymore. Right?
17:41 People want a better quality of life and then just going and bringing their lunchpale to work and those, they don't work.
17:46 They don't, doesn't work anymore. Well, you know, I wrote my dissertation. We said this off air and I've said it on another podcast on organizational commitment and air conditioning technicians and The the general model that gets used is that a a text commitment to their company They work for has three
18:03 components to it. There's their desire to be there There's their kind of sense of loyalty and fair exchange like what they're giving me equals what I'm giving them And that's a good relationship and then there's the component of it costs me too much to leave And when you have high desire, you get extra
18:21 effort and not thinking about leaving. The exchange, you're kind of in the middle. But when the primary issue is it cost me too much to leave, you get the lowest levels of effort, but the most thoughts of leaving, but doesn't because it costs too much to leave.
18:34 And my concern is like you described this install guy who's working seven days a week. I've so many times I've heard this story.
18:41 Yeah, I took this job. I thought I really was attracted to the money. Now I have to work seven days a week, I have to, not because they make me, but now I have bills that are equal to that wage that I make at seven days a week, and I don't know how to get out of this.
18:57 I don't know how to go tell my wife we can't afford this house, or we've got to sell the boat, or whatever this is, because if I step out of this, something's got to go.
19:06 And so I just keep going in every day, but it's like my soul dies a little more every day. and they've created this cul-de-sac in a job that costs too much to leave.
19:16 And that's my, I'll talk about this with technicians and they'll be like, are you telling me I shouldn't go chase money?
19:21 I'm like, no, I'm not telling you do anything. I'm just saying, there is a version of chasing money where you end up much worse off than you were at the beginning.
19:29 And it has to do with that dynamic often over time as part of it. And now I have a lifestyle, I have to back out of it if I leave this job.
19:40 if I'm going to be, I'll be, I'll be personal here because, and so I was not a fan of the executive leadership in my previous employer.
19:52 And I thought that, you know, this was not something that I could really do for a long period of time.
19:58 And honestly, I spent about six and a half years at that company pre and post acquisition in two states. So I had a pretty good understanding of what the company represented but I never done leadership at the company before I was in sales years back and I got approached by a small roll-up that was putting
20:19 a bunch of small mama pop shops basically together and they bought like six or seven of them and then there was a large new construction division in HVAC and it was looked up here to be a pretty systematic operation and they needed they wanted a director of sales they wanted somebody to head up the sales
20:36 and service and everything else, which is what I do, right? And I've had a lot of success. I got a really great track record.
20:44 I'm not going to honk my own horn, but man, people have, go ask people off coach, go have people I've managed, and quickly found out very, very quickly.
20:54 I mean, it was an equity piece, sweat equity piece, the whole deal was it, it was a big deal. It took months to, you know, just to even just to get the, you know, board signed off on it the whole deal, investors.
21:05 And, you know, it just was a bad fit. Isn't that amazing? So even where I'm at in my career, and it just was a bad fit.
21:17 So it's been an interesting journey because here you are. And I'm in the same boat as, you know, other people that, you know, chase the money, chase the dream, didn't know what you had when you walked into the door, and you're like, wow, okay.
21:35 And to hear like, hey, we're really not ready for you. That's crazy to hear. You know? Yeah. By the way, that's another version of costume which to leave is we just need in three years you get blank.
21:50 You know, it's a sweat equity deal, or it's a, it's some kind of golden handcuffs. And now I'm just, I'm just three years of misery.
21:58 You can get divorced in three years. You can lose your kids in three years. There's three years as an eternity to be miserable.
22:04 But you can, you can lose your mind in three years. And it, well, the intent was to be happy, John.
22:11 The intent was to, I know. The intent was to ride off into the sunset. I mean, so, you know, but listen, things, sometimes things don't work out.
22:20 but it's okay, you learn. Sure, I'm And you grow. Well, let me slow this in as well, that, I mean, I do a lot of stuff around, on both sides of the equation, both for tax as well as for employers, on how do I compete for talent with culture and wages, or culture and strategy instead of wage wars?
22:37 Because there tends to be two kinds of employers out there. They're gonna throw money around, and then that's what you're getting.
22:43 There's nothing else there. Or they're gonna keep up with wages, but they're trying to culturally make it a great place to work, right?
22:50 So, and there's a few guys, it depends on your situation. If you can't pay your rent, you got to go get the money.
22:57 Do what you got to do. I'm not, I don't want to ever take food out of somebody's mouth, much less their kids mouth.
23:02 However, the sustainability of a career does require some kind of, I like where I work, on some level. It could be the relationships part of it.
23:15 It could be that I have opportunities to advance here. It could be that I just get to do what I do best every day here, but something about working there has to be pleasurable beyond just the payday, right?
23:29 And that makes that begins to be sustainable. So I've been I've begun to tell technicians, look for their what I call investments in cultural assets.
23:40 I'll give you an example. If I want to compete in business And I want to create a competitive advantage against XYZ mechanical and a meaningful way.
23:52 A meaningful, you can't compete with me, advantage. I have to make an investment of some kind. I either have to, I need to, I need to buy certain equipment.
24:02 I need to pay certain chill or text and whatever it is that if you want to compete with me, you at least have to make the same investment I made or you can't compete with me, right?
24:13 I can't just say we like people better and then they can say the same thing and it's not, it's not really a competitive advantage, right?
24:21 So when you're competing for talent, the companies who understand this, they will create something that looks like a cultural tradition inside the company and it costs them money to do it.
24:31 And other people don't do it because it costs money. For example, a company called Star Service, I don't mind saying it out loud, Star Service, in Baton Rouge Louisiana, got 180 employees, about 125 technicians, every year at Christmas time, they buy a unique Christmas gift for every child of every person
24:52 in that company. And they have a massive blowout Christmas party where checks get handed out, all the kids get presents, and if you think they do that on five bucks, you're crazy.
25:04 it not only is it a paycheck and not only is it a money a check they have to write to make that happen, it's staff time to go figure out and they don't just buy junk they buy PS5s and shotguns and all kinds of things for these kids.
25:21 Now do they make tons of money over there? I'm sure they do. I mean I you know in fact they do but I don't want to out them but they do they do just fine and are they wanting to say thank you for all of the work that's been done for that year 100% yes, but they also know you can't touch us in terms of
25:41 work environment. If anybody else in that labor market says we want someone from Star Service, good luck because, nope, anybody who wants to compete that way is going to have to compete with that competitive advantage created by that cultural asset.
25:59 that, right? The asset is the party, as well as the reputation for it. I was their client. I was in a meeting there the other day.
26:07 What were like where we mid September, they're already talking about the Christmas party, where it's going to be, what's going to go on at the Christmas party, right?
26:15 Yeah. I actually, I worked for an organization that we had a similar, same thing. Massive casino party hosted right on the beach.
26:25 I mean, it was incredible. I mean, and, and you know, you had every employee there, everybody dressed to the tens, prizes, galore, live music.
26:34 And we did, we also would do like, like these, cruises through, like, short, like a few hour cruises through the bay, like, you know, right through New York City right there.
26:43 and they would just hold like team building events to do that. And then, you know, based on, they would invest in sales, sales contest too, like, hey, if you hit this, you get this.
26:54 If you hit this, you get this and it was cool because at the end of the year, if you hit a certain dollar amount and they got their manufacturers to help kick in like carrier and stuff like that.
27:03 Sure. Where we went on trips and I won trips to like tropical destinations and you got to take your wife and actually it was it was pretty amazing and we knew they footed the bill for this stuff like we and let me tell you we were acquired by a large roll up.
27:20 And it wasn't very long before that one away. Yeah. And, and, and, and I, I, vehemently disagree when you start looking at it from a bottom line perspective, it was 0.001 percent of, of the expenditure.
27:35 And, and part of the issue is, I think you can be owned by PE and, by investors, and still do that.
27:42 I think that there's a short-sighted nature in, in that world, where the investors don't look at the gains from right because your pencil pushers and you need somebody to talk to you and say, keep this stuff intact because it will actually, I know you want to cut expenses, right?
28:00 Let's find somewhere else to cut the expenses. Don't cut it in culture in these events because this is what keeps the glue together and keeps us all swimming in the same interaction.
28:10 Yeah. And so what I would do for the technicians, they're also sort of not great versions of this where the company thinks they're doing this, but the technicians don't actually appreciate it.
28:23 So just ask the technician, what are the special things they do there and how do you feel about it? Ask a technician who works there.
28:31 If you're attacking, you're considering working there, ask them what they do, if they say, oh, they don't do anything special.
28:37 And then And probably they're just talk only on a cultural level. They're not building assets that allow them to compete for talent.
28:46 And if they're trying, but it doesn't work, you don't want to be part of that same thing either. Like I know of a, I won't out this person, but I know of a company that they also did a casino night.
28:57 But when I talk to the techs on the side, they're like, that's just an ego trip for the owner. We don't know.
29:02 We would rather just pay us 500 bucks. Matt, well, bit of opinions, you know. It depends on the opinion. I'm sure some people really I'm sure some people really liked it.
29:12 There's I will tell you one other thing that this company did and they slowly sort of went away from it.
29:18 And again, I disagree. I know the general manager. I disagree with him on this every Tuesday, every single Tuesday at the end of the meetings.
29:27 There would be so we had blocked out times where we would not run a call one day a week and unless it was the smashed in the middle of the season, where that was meeting time, that was, you know, team building time, that was it.
29:42 And by 11, 11, 30, that meal was there. Literally, it was catered. And we had lunch every Tuesday. So we knew our company takes care of us on Tuesdays.
29:52 We go in. We've got a meal. It's, listen, I, again, what's the, what's the implication to the bottom line? Not much.
30:01 Right. Had every, had 52 Tuesdays up, and you're going to skip probably seven or eight of them at least, maybe even 10.
30:06 So 42s days times lunch. Come on. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And what I've seen at least is they begin to have like their own reputation.
30:20 These kinds of things, it's like people start looking forward to this Tuesday event. They start, there's a dynamic to it that feels like not only do I get paid, we also get this kind of thing.
30:34 And when the culture is working for you as an employee, it should feel like, yes, I'm getting paid. I'm not getting shorted in exchange for this.
30:49 But I could probably make two bucks an hour more somewhere else. If I just decided that's what I want. I probably could, but that two bucks to me isn't worth what I get with my paycheck plus this.
31:00 And it's kind of fuzzy. Some of it is like really feeling appreciated. Some of it is the actual stuff you get, like from it.
31:10 But those, as I look at, this is what I study academically, when I look at labor markets in 2024, where especially where there's a shortage of talent, and we know across the board, 80% of American workers, 80% or more, say they're happy or very happy where they are, and 80% of workers say they are open
31:32 or very open to something else. That environment creates a looking person that's different than has happened at any time in Western history and employment.
31:43 And there's no such thing as people hiring from a couch. They are only hiring from another job. And so things like, does my wife approve of this move, make or break the decision?
31:57 like if you got a technician on a couch and he gets offered a job even if it's a shitty company, she thinks it's the best job's ever been offered to anybody.
32:05 You go take that job. Yeah. But if he's working somewhere at stable and he's got benefits, but it looks like a better opportunity for him over here, he'll go home and his wife will be like, man, are you sure?
32:17 So when I talk to my clients, they'll say, man, I interviewed this guy. He was amazing. He said, man, I really want to do this.
32:23 I just need to go home and run it by my wife and I never heard from him again. And so like the, if you're an employer, we have a spouse program because that same guy is currently working for you and running up by his spouse to go work somewhere else, right?
32:40 So what are you doing to help spouses really feel like this is the best place ever to work at? This is part of the genius of the Christmas party.
32:49 Those are her kids too, right? Like being able to really go deep and understand and the decision-making pathway, a technician makes from where they are to working for you.
33:02 And not, see, when you just don't feel like doing that, that's when you just start throwing around money. But if you really wanna have a superior workforce and you really wanna compete, you've gotta take the time to drill down and really talk to these guys, talk to the guys you have, understand why they
33:18 like working for you and turn that into what is a marketing message, essentially, and put out that pheromone for the other people who don't have that where they are and you'll attract the right guys and you can deliver because you're already delivering that and you're not making promises, you're not
33:32 already keeping. Right? But this is what it looks like to compete for talent really in 2024. The days of putting up a sign that like I see these drive by places like, hey, we're hiring two texts, we need two texts.
33:46 Might as well just take the sign down. That's not going to do anything for you, right? You've got to know culturally what it is you're giving people and send that message out.
33:55 And then those people will start sniffing and you'll start, you'll start bringing them in. I had Micah Gugliaro on the podcast.
34:03 You know, Micah Gugli, you know, who he is? I know of him. Yeah. Yeah. So, and he started gold medal services in New Jersey and then grew that to 30 million.
34:11 And then he actually started CEO warrior and then sold that. And he's actually like a really interesting guy. And he went back in the day, 10 years ago.
34:21 So he ran a hiring event and he had already interviewed me. He already wanted to hire me. He threw me the keys.
34:29 I actually didn't go to work for him ironically. But he had a hiring event and he would do a mass hiring event where it would be like this big thing.
34:38 And he would bring in, they didn't matter what position you were applying for. And in the warehouse, they'd set out chairs and tables and you'd sit.
34:47 They talk about the company and everything they were doing and people loved working there I worked with people that had worked there and they did they loved working there I mean at the time and again, it was short lived them in Those days if you work for a contractor for two years that was you know,
35:05 I mean so It was that actually worked really well I bet you that same concept and philosophy would work today you run a mass-iring event come in and let me show you what we're doing here.
35:16 And there was a second fold of awareness that he created with his business because the business was only around for like 10 years.
35:25 And he was able to sort of spread the word about just what they do. Even if the person wasn't hired, it became marketing for them too.
35:35 Sure. So it was pretty brilliant. And yeah, he's like money guns, you wouldn't go. T-shirt guns and stuff like that that they used to do, so that, you know, I think that's the right path.
35:50 It still applies today, even though it was 10 years ago. Everything's just so noisy now. Everybody's got the answers. You go online.
35:57 It's like, you know, there's somebody who has a different answer from you on, you know, no, don't even care about culture.
36:03 I've found that it doesn't even work and, you know, then you have all these different opinions, but I think that, you know, it's just, in my, in my opinion, it's just like common sense.
36:12 You have to spend X amount of time at your office in your job or whatever. Why not make it a really cool place to work?
36:20 Yeah, absolutely. And again, not every culture is a match for everybody. You know, like that kind of bra, raw, you know, money gun kind of culture is a terrific match for some people, especially if it's a salesy kind of environment.
36:37 Other, you know, companies, it's more commercial contracted maintenance and what they need are a bunch of guys who love stability and high levels of organization and no crises.
36:50 And what they love doing every day is coming in and every three months I look at that same split system and I do the same maintenance and but the predictability just makes my life perfect.
37:00 And there is a place for people like that and I was interviewed on other podcasts and they asked about that.
37:05 Like it was like what What do you have to say about people who, you know, they get these jobs, they come out of trade school or they're, you know, switching over and then they find out like, oh, this company, I'm, I'm really a sales tech.
37:18 I didn't sign up for this. I really want to be a service tech like, listen, don't work for those organizations.
37:22 If all you want to do, all you want to do is fix stuff, please go work for a commercial maintenance company that does rooftops, contracts, make sure you're up front.
37:30 This is actually a big one in our field, right? because sometimes people step into a situation, they don't even realize that they actually their compensation, even though they're getting like an hourly plus some kind of commission, that the company really just cares about how much revenue they can generate
37:49 as a service tech. That has to be clear because that's the biggest, I would say that is the biggest failure for service technicians, 100% the biggest failure of that relationship where they come in and they think I think I'm a fix it guy and I end up being a sales rep.
38:07 I don't want to be a salesman. I don't want to talk to customers that much. I really want to fix stuff, diagnose stuff and that's it.
38:12 And when you're dealing, especially when you're dealing with homeowners and you got call after call after call after call, right?
38:17 I mean, those are, those are systemized businesses. Here's the other thing, there are guys out there that especially here in Texas, man, who are texts that really all they want to do is sell.
38:32 They're like, no, I want to communicate, I want to talk to customers, I want to go sell the stuff. This is what I want to do.
38:38 Don't I'm not a fix it guy like, yeah, I'll fix stuff, yeah, I'm going to diagnose it. But man, I want to make, you know, commissions.
38:44 So find that if you find that, that will eliminate, alleviate all this stuff. The problem is is the problem, I think is people coming into the industry, younger guys are working for the brands that they see the most in the HVAC business.
39:00 and a lot of those are, they're branded that way because they generate revenue and that revenue comes from sales. And then they walk in and they're like, and I'm not saying there's not a spot on those companies for the Fixit guys, but that's who they recognize.
39:17 So they go to the apply for one of these big time names and not realizing like there's a reason why it's a big time name unless it's a commercial or industry outfit.
39:25 There's a reason why it's a big time name is because they generate a lot of revenue. But, you know, we're not all thinking on terms like, you know, you know, yeah.
39:34 That there's, you know, it's kind of funny. My son is kind of in that role right now. My, my family wise, my grandpa was a tech and my mother worked for Johnson controls for 40 years and I studied tech and my son is a tech in Indianapolis.
39:45 And, and his first job was in a commercial outfit where he was handling sheet metal and on roof tops and he just didn't feel like he was fitting in at all.
39:55 Now he's with a very large company, just do it. And again, he's still really just getting started, but he's with a very large company doing maintenance calls, selling filters, you know, selling UV lights, and just like getting his feet wet.
40:09 And he, I talked him three, four times a week and he's like, man, it's not a good day today. Just that he's in that groove.
40:16 He's learning and he's kind of an academic kid. So he's got half of the rest of my family and half me in him.
40:23 So he gets up early every day. He studies HVAC for an hour. Then he goes to work. He doesn't really like television.
40:30 So he reads all the time. And he's kind of heady for, you know, someone who's who's in a trade. And and he just loves selling.
40:39 But he's not he's not a money gun guy. He's a guy who's going to sit down with someone. He's going to have a pastoral tone.
40:46 And he's going to say, listen, we should talk about a change job because your unit is 12 years old. How long are you going to live?
40:53 And he's going to have this very warm, you know, and he's that guy. And if he doesn't have those conversations with people, he just feels like he's wearing shoes on the wrong feet, you know.
41:04 But, you know, he's finding his niche as well, which I would just say for anybody out there, know yourself. Don't try to put a square pegging around whole.
41:14 If you love the mechanical stuff, don't look at the money that a comfort guy makes, a comfort advisor makes, when they go out on a call, go down the path of getting in the commercial side, getting one that's not even OEM specific.
41:30 So you can be troubleshooting and you can find a way to work on chillers and cooling towers and all that stuff and just go crazy with it.
41:40 You know, you have very little, there's a little bit, but very little customer service need. On the other hand, if what you love is people don't look at commercial as if that's sort of better somehow than residential.
41:53 It's more technical in some ways, not that much anymore. I mean, there's some very complicated residential systems out there. But if what you love is that service side, that the people part of that then go do that there's there's I mean that the wonderful thing about this business is that you can almost
42:10 live anywhere in the world and almost do anything with it. You know I know a guy in Houston that used to travel the world commissioning systems for Siemens and I mean he saw the world for two years he was been to every continent like all over the place and then after two years he was like that's enough
42:28 of this I'm ready to I said a lot of travel, yeah. Yeah, but it was like he got to do that, you know?
42:33 So anyway, I just, I get really excited for technicians, I get really excited for people in the industry because there's so much good in it, there's so much opportunity, there's so much chance for happiness and personal growth.
42:45 And I just, that's the whole reason I started this podcast is to inspire guys to go build a life for themselves and not just be reactive to whatever's happening right now, know, like if you got a bad boss near to bad situation, don't lean into the idea that well sooner later life sucks.
43:05 So I guess is where we are. You don't have to live that way. You don't have I like what you do, man.
43:10 This is really cool. I love the name of the podcast. Oh, thank you. I really do. Joy Lab. Yeah. It's cool.
43:17 Yeah. Well, listen, we're just about out of time, Everett. I really appreciate the time you're giving me today to be on the podcast.
43:23 And Everett's podcast is sales sales podcast. Listen, I'm all there's two there's two there's there's sales sales pot don't it's sales sales podcast so I was in this house It's a cartoony guy that looks like me, so you'll know it.
43:36 Okay Perfect perfect go who doesn't want to hear some of these great stories. I mean for real that they're This is you know, this is the same thing you talked to your friends about over beers after work So this is you get to have beers with all these guys have their stories to tell so listen Everett
43:53 Thanks so much for coming on the podcast. I appreciate the time. And so I hope to see you sometime in person appreciate you, man