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How many times have you tried to understand ADHD...and were left feeling more misunderstood? We get it and we're here to help you build a shiny new relationship with ADHD. We are two therapists (David Kessler & Isabelle Richards) who not only work with people with ADHD, but we also have ADHD ourselves and have been where you are. Every other week on Something Shiny, you'll hear (real) vulnerable conversations, truth bombs from the world of psychology, and have WHOA moments that leave you feeling seen, understood, and...dare we say...knowing you are something shiny, just as you are.
Something Shiny: ADHD!
SUMMER REPLAY: What Systems Believe ADHD Looks Like vs. Who You Really Are
Drop Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2026
*this episode transcription was auto-generated and might contain errors
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ISABELLE RICHARDS: [00:00:00] Hello, I'm Isabelle, she, her, hers.
DAVID KESSLER: And I'm David, he, him, his.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And we're two therapists with ADHD who sit down to have some chats about ADHD. We can't promise we'll stay on topic. Or be professional. Or even remotely mature. But we can promise that you'll end up looking at you or your loved one's beautiful neurodivergent brain in a shiny new way.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: This is not a therapy session. This is Something Shiny.
DAVID KESSLER: I love it. Can this just be the intro of you saying that and me freaking out about how amazing it is?
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): So without further ado, welcome to Something Shiny.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: In this episode, we welcome my husband, Bobby, and David's childhood friend, Ashley, who both also have ADHD. Thank you, Bobby and Ashley. Now, let's get started.
DAVID KESSLER: I should probably just introduce everyone to- Yeah ... to Ashley here.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Hi, Ashley. [00:01:00] Hi, I'm Ashley. Ashley,
DAVID KESSLER: how you doing? Thanks for coming. Ah. So I've known Ashley, like, just straight up my whole life.
DAVID KESSLER: Uh, I m- I- Friends with your brother in second grade and- Well,
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): most of your life, but my whole life, for
DAVID KESSLER: sure. Your... Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gotcha. Mm-hmm.
BOBBY RICHARDS: So from the same, same town growing
DAVID KESSLER: up. Same town. Mm-hmm. We went to same school at different times. West Philadelphia. You're just quoting Fresh Prince right now. I know.
DAVID KESSLER: That was- Where
BOBBY RICHARDS: you
ISABELLE RICHARDS: were born.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): And raised. I was playing baseball.
DAVID KESSLER: On the playgrounds where I spent most of my days. Yeah. Yeah. So well, that's also true. But, uh, for us, we've, we've had a lot of shared experiences. Mm. And, and we also share the experience of having ADHD, right? So it's like- Yay ... what, what? What?
DAVID KESSLER: Part of the clan. Nice.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Party. Party.
DAVID KESSLER: But there are a couple things that I think, like, you could really talk about today and I, and I'm really, like, curious to see how we can, like, collectively pick your brain because- Mm ... number one- Yeah. But, but you, you were diagnosed when? W-
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Um, '94, so fourth grade.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah, fourth grade.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I was diagnosed really young, yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: So in school [00:02:00] diagnosed. Oh my gosh.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: And just to be clear, like a- Elementary school Yeah. Yeah ... like cis female, right? Mm-hmm. So what is it like here being a female diagnosed with ADHD, and how is it different from being like a boy diagnosed with ADHD? And I was like, "Who do I know that could actually like talk about that?"
DAVID KESSLER: It's me. Yeah.
BOBBY RICHARDS: And '94 was like, when did ADHD become sort of in the mainstream? I feel like around that, like '94, '90s, around. Yeah, I mean, like, I, I don't remember- That's at least when I remember hearing about it when I was in elementary school ...
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I don't remember having a lot of friends who had it. Yeah. So, like, I remember having to go to the nurse in the middle of the day to take like my second dose of medication, and like none of my classmates had to do it that I knew of.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): And so I'm like, "All right, uh, just gonna disappear." "I'm gonna Batman out of here- Yeah ... and just go take medication, and I'll, I'll see you guys in like 10 minutes."
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): So yeah, a
DAVID KESSLER: few times. Yeah, it feels like it, like it, I don't know if it was like a big, like as normalized as it is now then. Like
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): it- I don't think it was, no.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Oh. I felt really weird about [00:03:00] talking about it then. Now I'm like, "Hey, I got ADHD." Now s- "I'm on medication. Let's do some work."
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was awesome. Well, 'cause I feel like- You were a pioneer ... yeah,
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I feel like, yeah. You were a pioneer. And '94 was like- I, I'm, I'm blazing the trail ...
BOBBY RICHARDS: that was blazing the trail.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yes, yes. That was like pioneer days- Yeah ... for ADHD.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah. Nice. Not a lot of awareness, like in ter- in terms of like schools to know about like how accommodations work and- Oh, no ... you know, how ADHD- Oh, no ... affects the brain. Like that stuff came like-
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Oh, I didn't hear about- ... a good 10 years later ... accommodations until like high school.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Right. Like it was my like junior or senior year where they're like, "Uh, you can go to this other room and take longer to take this test." And I'm like, "What?" "This is allowed?" Like- If I'd had audiobooks in high school, I would've been a game changer.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Like big time. Tell me about it,
BOBBY RICHARDS: because I just discovered how audiobooks changed my life like a year ago.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I love
BOBBY RICHARDS: them. That's how I read.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Yeah. I, I- Use my
BOBBY RICHARDS: ears ...
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I love like reading a physical book, but it takes me so long to get through it. Oh,
BOBBY RICHARDS: yeah. Yeah, me too.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Love it. Love audiobooks. The best
DAVID KESSLER: That's where I, I say like, "Isn't it crazy how we all try to read a book and then as we're reading one line, we skip and [00:04:00] accidentally read the last few, like, words on the bo- line below it?"
DAVID KESSLER: Like, everyone, everyone's nodding right now, but like- Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah ... we all have that
ISABELLE RICHARDS: experience. Oh, yeah. Yes.
DAVID KESSLER: That's ADHD. There are eye-tracking issues that are related to ADHD. The best way to think about those is that typical impairment happens with either impulsivity, jumping to the wrong word or wrong line, or
DAVID KESSLER: attention issues, leading to you thinking about what you cooked for dinner last night or whether or not the fridge door is closed while you read the first two lines of this.
DAVID KESSLER: So we like, we like miss, and then it's boring to read the same line again.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I tried to read the, um, Game of Thrones books, and I picked up the first one. I'm sitting there reading it, and I realize, like, two hours later, I'm still on the first page in, like, the third paragraph. Oh my gosh. 'Cause I was just reading the same line over and over again- Yeah
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): trying to, like, absorb the information, and I'm like-
BOBBY RICHARDS: Like, what vortex
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): am I in right now? ... "Is this guy talking about food or killing? I have no idea what's going on." So I just started reading, listening to the audiobooks, and I finished the series, so. Oh. Well, what's out there, at least.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh. Yeah I feel like, so here's where I will admit, like, I maybe, I feel like almost, [00:05:00] like, sheepish to share this, but, like, so I, one of the reasons I was like, "I don't know if I have ADHD," 'cause when you were talking to me, David, about the eye tracking stuff, I was like, oh, I feel like for the most part, I, like, I can r- I read, and I'm, like, fine with it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But then only later, so, like, in my head, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I read Game of Thrones," and as you were talking. And I go, "Oh, I remember when I read it," when I was on a plane- ... and I was, had nothing else to do. Yep. Yeah. It's like your only resort. And, and there was white noise and hushed conversation, which is probably my favorite combo platter- Yes
ISABELLE RICHARDS: for, you know, hyper-focus. And I was like, oh, that's... And then I, as soon as I got off the plane, I couldn't read it anymore. Yeah. And- And then I had to, like, wait for the return flight, and then I didn't really finish it 'cause I was bored. I
BOBBY RICHARDS: mean, yeah. Were you doing, like, five trips around the world? Is that how you were able to read those books?
BOBBY RICHARDS: No, no, no. It was
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): on a tr- on a plane that's never landing. Just
ISABELLE RICHARDS: never land- No. It was, like, I didn't get that far through it, but it was like- Right ... um, it was a flight to New Mexico I don't know. You read pretty fast. It was a flight to New Mexico. You read pretty fast. When I'm in a hyper-focused state. Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And only if it's something I care [00:06:00] about. Like, I remember reading this book for college that was, like, on, I, like... I'm gonna own it. It was on imagining the divide in ancient polytheistic civilizations. I remember the title. It was really- ... hard. And it, fascinating, like, right, the topic. Woo, kinda like, if you think about it, cool.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Your face is just like- Yeah. Your face, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah ... overwhelmed right
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): now. Whoa. Like, like, deer in the headlights.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And the book itself was like the, like, took something super interesting and made it the biggest snoozefest. Whoa. And the entire book is just highlighter. Just highlighter- Nice ... and, like- Oh ... note after note because I don't think I read it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I think I was, like, reading three words at a time and just...
BOBBY RICHARDS: Does it sound familiar? Did you say th- Did you, did you say this was a textbook?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes. This was, this was a
BOBBY RICHARDS: textbook. Okay. I couldn't remember if you just said it was a textbook or if this was just a book you wanted to read. No.
DAVID KESSLER: Okay. Did it have anything to do with, like, Cleopatra?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: So what David is trying to do here is really brilliant. What he's doing is asking me very specific questions about the memory that I [00:07:00] don't seem to have a lot of access to or memory of And the more specific questions he asks, like, "What is this picture?" or, "What is the cover like?" or, "What do you remember?"
ISABELLE RICHARDS: very specifically is accessing what's called an anchor memory. So he is literally helping me anchor my memory in something very concrete, and then you see that my memory opens up and I'm able to talk a lot more about the thing I could have sworn I had
BOBBY RICHARDS: forgotten about. Go, David.
DAVID KESSLER: Did it have anything to do with, like, Cleopatra and Antony and-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: No, no.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It was more about, like, um, a, like, Mesopotamian gods and- Oh ... um, like Hinduism and, like, the origins of these, like, amazing polytheistic belief systems. Like an
DAVID KESSLER: origin story thing.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, like origin stories, and then, like, was all, like, talking about, like, sort of, you know, the con- like, the c- concepts of, like, dualism or, you know, like, is there a good?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Is there an evil? Are they both there? Is it just a good? I don't know. Ah.
DAVID KESSLER: Do you remember anything from that book?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I remember that [00:08:00] there was a drawing of cuneiform, right? The ancient Mesopotamian- Yeah ... writing system thing. And I remember it had a little doodle of, like, a man who's, like, holding some- something, and then it's, like, and then it's cuneiform, and I just, like, stared at that for a really long time, probably 'cause I fell asleep, and then I woke up and I saw it ag- Like, so in my head when I think of that book, all I see is this one, like, ancient, we're talking century, you know, millennia ago.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: That's amazing. Someone was like, "I wanna draw a dude," for commerce reasons I think. But, you know. So I'm gonna draw a dude holding, like, a thing, and I'm gonna write about it. I just remember thinking, like, "I feel like this person was making cartoons," and I got, like, really, like, fascinated by it and like-
DAVID KESSLER: Amazing
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I'm sorry I took us on that tangent.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I love it. I was just trying to say that like- No. Tell
BOBBY RICHARDS: me about all the dudes you've been fooling ...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: for those of you out there listening who maybe are like, "I read just fine," it's like I believe you. Like, go to town, and also sometimes it's about the environment is what I think I'm [00:09:00] slowly absorbing.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh, yes.
DAVID KESSLER: You're talking about the levels of accommodation, right? Yeah, like- Like how the highlighter was the tracking thing ...
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): there's definitely times where I've like... I listen to music a lot when I read.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. '
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Cause like I, again, I need the white noise, and the best way to control it is just to throw on music that I know really well and I don't have to pay attention to, and it blocks everything out.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): And so- I'm nodding so hard. Like, yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Like it's just like all about like- It has to be music you know ... yeah. It can't be new music. It can't be new. Yeah. I can't listen... Like same thing with falling asleep. It has to be something I know, otherwise I'm gonna wanna watch it or listen to it, and I'm, I can't.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): So like some of this music, if I hear the certain song I will remember exactly what passage I was reading, and I'll like, I'll remember what was going on, and it just like sticks in my brain. Like anytime I listen to Buena Vista Social Club, it's like all I think of is like Harry Potter for some reason 'cause I was listening to that a lot when I was reading a Harry Potter book.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Oh,
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): that's amazing. It's just so random.
BOBBY RICHARDS: That's how I am with podcasts. So like I'll be, I'll be, uh, listening to a podcast, and then I'll be able to remember where I was when I [00:10:00] was listening to the podcast. So I can... If, if I go back and listen to almost any podcast I can tell you exactly what I was doing and where I was.
DAVID KESSLER: It's amazing what
BOBBY RICHARDS: you remember. And I'm the same with- Yeah ... with books too, like- Yeah ... like listening to music. So when you're read- when you're, when you're reading you have to... Can you listen to music with, with lyrics?
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Uh, yeah. Yeah.
BOBBY RICHARDS: See, I can't do that. I, it has to be instrumental. I
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): can as long as it's something very familiar.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Okay.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): It has to be very familiar- 'Cause then it is that kind of- ... 'cause it is just white noise ... yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's all about white noise.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I do have a bad habit of any time, I mean any time, if I'm like at a professional meeting, if I'm in the middle of like the most serious conversation of my life, I think one time during a breakup, if there is a song going on in the background that I like- Mm-hmm
ISABELLE RICHARDS: and I know the words to, and for whatever reason I feel... I have a horrible singing voice, but I pick up lyrics very quickly. I will start to like mouth the words. Like I can't not.
BOBBY RICHARDS: You're a monster.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I
BOBBY RICHARDS: am a monster. And I like- You're going through a breakup and you start
ISABELLE RICHARDS: karaoke. No, I think I was the one being broken up with.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I don't think I was like the dumper.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I, honestly I think that's like the best way to handle a breakup. That's amazing. Just [00:11:00] like sit there and listen to the music you really like- Just like in the background ... in the background and just like mouth the lyrics- Oh ... while they're breaking up with you. So they're like, "Wow, you, I mean nothing to you, do I?"
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): And you're like, "
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, that's the song." Fair. Fair. I wish I had that, though. Next time I'm gonna edit that memory. I
BOBBY RICHARDS: don't think you're a
ISABELLE RICHARDS: monster. I'm gonna do that. Oh my gosh. Yeah, but I can't... It's like I can't as soon as it's a song I like. So actually, I think the, the trick for me is listening to music I don't like as much as other music that is familiar.
DAVID KESSLER: Hmm. That's so funny. I can't, I can't do music at all- It's gotta be, like- ... while I'm studying. You
BOBBY RICHARDS: gotta be, you gotta be silent?
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah. G- get outta hear music. Oh. I'll put earbuds in and have no music just so people don't talk to me. Sure. There's less ambient sound. Yeah,
ISABELLE RICHARDS: yeah. Oh, I do that too, a lot.
DAVID KESSLER: But I can't- Yeah
DAVID KESSLER: but for, for, like, whenever I'm cleaning or, like, doing some kinda labor, like if I'm building something or moving things around, it's, like, absolutely trance house or, like, some hardcore techno. Some of the upbeat, the, like, get you
ISABELLE RICHARDS: going. Yeah. Sometimes Prodigy.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh, yeah. I
ISABELLE RICHARDS: went through- I went through, like, a massive Prodigy phase.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And I was like, "This is all I need."
BOBBY RICHARDS: So you just listen to the, uh, soundtrack to The Matrix- ...
DAVID KESSLER: on your way, or
BOBBY RICHARDS: something? Yeah
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, the soundtrack to
BOBBY RICHARDS: The Matrix is the best one to run to.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah, I [00:12:00] know. I wish everyone here could see Isabelle, like, with both of her, like, hands in the air waving like she's trying to stop a bus-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's like,
BOBBY RICHARDS: ah
BOBBY RICHARDS: from hitting somebody. I love that song. I mean, that could be your own s- I've got different jam modes ... that could be your own spinoff podcast- ... is just a Matrix podcast.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's just a Mat- True. Th- uh, you're not wrong on that. Yeah. But then
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): a certain
DAVID KESSLER: beat per minute it
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): has to hit. I'm sure that exists, and if it doesn't, you guys gotta, gotta do it now.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Yeah. Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: We
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): gotta
BOBBY RICHARDS: corner
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): that market.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. Yeah, it probably does exist. Corner that Matrix market. Oh my gosh. You w- you were beats per minute? Yeah. What is this? What-
DAVID KESSLER: No, I just, for me, it had to, like- Oh ... the beats per minute have to, like, match what I'm doing in the environment. Sure. Like, it can't be slower.
DAVID KESSLER: Like, I can't be cleaning to something where I'm moving... If I'm doing some detail work where it's really slow, I could listen to a slow, like a slow song.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. But- I hear that. Like, I want, when I'm, like, exercise, like when I'm walking or ru- you know, doing something- Mm-hmm Oh, yeah ... it has to be the right rhythm.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, yeah. And I have to move to the rhythm. Yeah.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Like, if I get off of
ISABELLE RICHARDS: it- Anytime I'm exercising ... I get really annoyed.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): The same way, like anytime I'm exercising, I will, like, stop exercising to change the song 'cause I'm like, "This isn't fast enough. I need something I can really get into." Oh,
BOBBY RICHARDS: my gosh. Yes, girl.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I get really annoyed and I'm like, "Skip, skip. This whole playlist sucks." [00:13:00] Yeah.
BOBBY RICHARDS: I have playlists that are specific, like beats per minute playlists.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Oh, yeah? Oh, nice. Yeah, Spotify definitely.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah,
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): yeah. I've used some of them for, like, workouts and they're good.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Some of them are really good, some of them I'm like sucks.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Some of them does, it does kinda sound like just really intense Muzak. You know? Like, it's just, it's just like-
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Like, like the elevator rave scene.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Exactly. Yeah. It is like elevator rave music.
DAVID KESSLER: I've never... Now I want... I've never listened to Spotify, really. I'm not a- Wow. Yeah, Spotify is- I,
BOBBY RICHARDS: I exclusively listen to Spotify
BOBBY RICHARDS: was always in my ears. Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: You're hearing- That's all we got ... like how much I don't prioritize music as an accommodation.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah. Well, I d- I mean, you could do podcasts through Spot-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, Spotify-
BOBBY RICHARDS: Spotify sponsors, uh, is sponsoring us today.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Side note, we are not getting paid to promote Spotify or, or anything at this point.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Um, we just got on a roll loving on Spotify.
BOBBY RICHARDS: I
DAVID KESSLER: mean, I w- I mean- I now listen to Spotify. They don't know. Yeah. Because-
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Spotify's great, though, 'cause it doesn't pause between episodes, like, or between, like, playlists. It'll just, like, move on, and I like, I don't have to like- Oh, yeah ... go [00:14:00] in and like do anything.
BOBBY RICHARDS: And then the robot starts telling you what you wanna listen to. Like, so if you listen to a pod- if you listen to a playlist you make, it just continues past the last song- Right ... unless you have it on, like, repeat, shuffle. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Like repeat, where it goes back, and then it just keeps going.
BOBBY RICHARDS: And I- And finds
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): music similar to what you've been listening to-
BOBBY RICHARDS: It just keeps going. Yeah,
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): yeah, yeah ... and just adds stuff that you might like.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: What is some music that you've discovered this way, Bobby? 'Cause isn't... I'm thinking of a specific really comical moment where you got into a specific genre-
BOBBY RICHARDS: Oh
ISABELLE RICHARDS: like purely due to Spotify.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Oh. Oh. This has happened many a moments- Mm-hmm ... where I will just... Well, it has... We're just talking about Spot- how awesome Spotify is. They'll do a couple things. So they have a discover weekly playlist where- ... it, it, it'll play music that you're like, "This is what we think you might like- Yeah, like-
BOBBY RICHARDS: that you don't have on your regular playlist." Daily one. Yeah. Daily two. Yeah, exactly. I listen
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): to those all the time.
BOBBY RICHARDS: And so through that... Well, first off, randomly it was just Korean pop music for a long time, and I was... And I don't know why, 'cause I didn't have any Korean pop. I don't have any-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Bobby, you love K-pop.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Hey, you know what? K-pop [00:15:00] loves Bobby. And I found- Yeah ... out that I was like, "I'm, I don't hate this." Mm-hmm. So that was nice, but I did discover specifically two things. One of them was this comedy album that was all about Richard Dreyfuss that I listened to for, like, two months straight. Only that. It's, it's
ISABELLE RICHARDS: amazing.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. I
BOBBY RICHARDS: won't... I'm not exaggerating. And I'm, I'm, and I'm- Yeah ... it, it's, it's... I'm trying to think of the- Like Hottentot?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: No, the whole, the whole-
BOBBY RICHARDS: No, it's this dude. It's this comedian. It's, like, this comic, uh, who has a f- who's amazing. He can sing amazingly. Do you know his name? I think it's Gabe Gurdecker or something like that.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Uh-huh. But it's Gabe something. It's like Gurdecker or so- Mm-hmm He started making up these songs about wanting to meet Richard Dreyfuss. So he did this concept album- ... that's all about wanting to meet Mr. Richard Dreyfuss. Why don't you answer my calls, Richard Dreyfuss? I'm, I'm, you know- I don't need you anymore, Richard Dreyfuss.
BOBBY RICHARDS: It's slowly getting more
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): stalker-y-
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah ... and, and
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): angry.
BOBBY RICHARDS: He's like, he's like, "I don't need you anymore, Richard Dreyfuss. I'm moving on to Tommy Lee Jones." "I'm so sorry, Richard Dreyfuss. I didn't mean to, I didn't mean to abandon you like that." And then it ends with him [00:16:00] being at an actual, like, screening of Jaws in St.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Pete, Florida- Oh ... where he goes up and he asks, he tells, uh, Richard Dreyfuss, he's like, you know who, Richard Dreyfuss was at this screening, "Hey, I w- have written songs about you." At this point, he's, this dude's releasing these on, on Twitter, releasing these on YouTube, and is getting, you know, hundreds of thousands of millions of views.
BOBBY RICHARDS: I mean, he gets viral. So at this point, Richard Dreyfuss knows who he is. And then at the end, his last song is that he met Richard Dreyfuss and there's still, like, a hole in his existence that he hasn't filled yet. And it's, it's the best, it's the best. So that's, so I fell into that rabbit hole. And then the other one was literally, like- Mm-hmm
BOBBY RICHARDS: so it's so- so there's these, there's these musicians- Like white snake? No, not even. It's... No, it's, like, '80s, like, action movies where it sounds like- Like
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Beverly Hills Cop, you know?
BOBBY RICHARDS: Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Like, like very '80s, like, syn- and it's all, it's all instrumental. And it sounds almost like it's a soundtrack to a-
BOBBY RICHARDS: to a, to a cheesy, yeah, to, like, a, like, a cheesy '80s soundtrack. This is- I may
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): or may not- This is what is so wonderful [00:17:00] about Spotify. I
BOBBY RICHARDS: know.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): And it's- The rabbit holes you can go down and get lost
BOBBY RICHARDS: in. Exactly. And maybe, and I, I think in, like, relating to the ADHD aspect of, of me-
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): It all- ...
BOBBY RICHARDS: of all of us, I will then only listen to this stuff, and o- only listen.
BOBBY RICHARDS: So that's kinda how I, that's kinda how I fall into it. It's hard for me to listen to something where it's, it goes from, you know, like, Sinatra crooner to NSYNC to- What playlist does that? ... Richard Dreyfuss to- I know. Well, just because- That sounds
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): like the world's worst playlist. Yeah, I know.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I had, like, a visceral
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): response.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Sinatra to-
BOBBY RICHARDS: To NSYNC ... to
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): NSYNC. Ugh. Like, what?
BOBBY RICHARDS: Sometimes it works. What? And sometimes it doesn't. But I feel like in my- ... in my brain, I can... 'Cause I, 'cause I'll just put, sometimes I just put shuffle on my, like, on my like list, like, the things that I like, and that's where it's just a, you know, a catchall. Too much
ISABELLE RICHARDS: of a catchall.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah, yeah.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I'm having a hard time not opening my Spotify to find those Richard Dreyfuss songs. To find those Richard Dreyfuss- I really want to. Oh, I'm gonna share them. Like, I, I gotta... No. We, we'll
BOBBY RICHARDS: share them with everybody.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I, I wanna, I wanna listen. We'll put it in the [00:18:00] show notes. We'll
BOBBY RICHARDS: put it in the show notes.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Put
BOBBY RICHARDS: them in the show notes.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Yes.
DAVID KESSLER: That just sounds like a lot of work for later. No show notes.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): No show notes. Woo-hoo.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You're on your own. Just kidding. Of course, there are show notes. But in case you don't wanna check them, the album is I Want To Meet Richard Dreyfuss by Gabriel Gundacker.
DAVID KESSLER: So- I was really thinking about in terms of, like, ADHD, I'm just jumping back in for- Go for it.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah ... yeah, just, uh, I'm thinking about, like, what, what it means not even being ADHD, but what, what it means in society to act differently, to just be a little bit outside the box and how you're labeled.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: And then, like, how you're treated. I mean, I can- Mm ... I can say, like, as a boy with ADHD, like, it's pretty quick that people know you have a problem and they, like, they take you seriously 'cause you'll break something or make a noise or get into trouble or something like...
DAVID KESSLER: Like, you, you, you make a commotion. Sure.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah, yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: Well, like, did you get in trouble in school?
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah, but it was never... I don't know. I, I think it was always like, "Oh, Bobby just likes to talk a lot," or it was, it was kind of, it was always played down. I, I [00:19:00] never felt shamed for it. I never told... I don't feel like I've ever ran into something where I was...
BOBBY RICHARDS: Like, I think I talked earlier on a podcast where I got an award. They made an award called the Spokesmanship Award- ... for me in elementary school because I talked all the time, and so they were like, "Well, we'll, we'll find, we'll find a way to celebrate it. Here's your participation award." So, 'cause everyone else got something, we'll give Bobby something.
BOBBY RICHARDS: He talks a lot.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh, see, see, for me, I, like, I was the whole, I didn't have the whole, you know, response costs or- Yeah ... understanding your consequences.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: What is response cost, you might be wondering. Uh, basically it's just understanding the consequences of our actions later down the road.
DAVID KESSLER: I'd be like, "I hate this class, and I don't have my homework done, so I'm not gonna go to class."
DAVID KESSLER: And then , and then I wouldn't go to class, and then I'd be like, "Well, the next time I go to class I'm gonna get in trouble for ditching class, so-
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I'm not going ...
DAVID KESSLER: obviously I'm not going back to class. And then the next thing you know, I haven't gone to class in, like, a month. Like, and then all of a sudden they're like, "You have problems with behavior."
DAVID KESSLER: And it was never really labeled as, like, ADHD, but it was all about, like- Sure ... how I'm acting out and- Oh ... how it's all about, uh, I'm trying to test authority, and I [00:20:00] have a behavior problem, and it's oppositional. Like, just labeling because I'm- Oh, my gosh ... I'm fighting the system, right?
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah. Did you ever... But did you...
BOBBY RICHARDS: See, you're saying, it's interesting that you just said that, 'cause I was thinking, you said fighting the system.
DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm.
BOBBY RICHARDS: I feel like I found a way to work the system.
DAVID KESSLER: I never thought
BOBBY RICHARDS: about that. So I feel like in my, in my world, the joke was that I was like Ferris Bueller in high school, was that I could kind of figure out how to- Oh, wow
BOBBY RICHARDS: if I didn't wanna do something, I could figure out how to, how to, how to make it work so that I would still- Get the obligation, you know what I mean? Like, figure out how to get the grade that I needed and- Well,
ISABELLE RICHARDS: can, can I point you in the direction of maybe, you don't have to go there, but like maybe the, like your response to like bullies or your response to when somebody was a- Oh,
BOBBY RICHARDS: yeah.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah, yeah. So if I... So w- we were just talking about this like just a few days ago. Yeah. Like bullying and stuff. With me, I figured out how to... It wasn't about fighting back and like hurting them. It was about figuring out, how do I work the system to get you to leave me alone? [00:21:00] So it could be I... It wasn't just telling a teacher, it was telling the person that I knew would do the, would be able to remove them for me.
BOBBY RICHARDS: So like if I had somebody who was screwing with me and broke something that I brought to school, then I would, I knew, "Okay, well, who can I tell to, to te- You- ... to get that person to..." And, and of course, and it's not like these bullies like were just randos that were like, did one thing and they were like, I was annoying them, and they hit me in the head with something.
BOBBY RICHARDS: And then- Mm ... it was, I, I, like I was saying, one of them, it was definitely like a strike 10. Mm-hmm. And I finally just was like the straw that broke the camel's back for the faculty that was like, "Okay, this guy needs to go."
DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm.
BOBBY RICHARDS: But I feel like, yeah, I w- it was always like, "What can I, what, what do I need to do to like, to like kind of work the system?
BOBBY RICHARDS: Because I don't wanna do this class, or I don't want to have to deal with this thing. How can I work around it to then, you know,
ISABELLE RICHARDS: get around it?" So you, you were like the kid who figured out, like, "I wanna talk to the manager"- Yes ... at a very young age.
BOBBY RICHARDS: It was, "Yeah, I wanna talk to the manager." Wow.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You had the I wanna talk to the manager confidence.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah. I wouldn't say it [00:22:00] worked all the time. But, but it worked more than it didn't work. And I don't know if that was, uh, if that's something that I, was an accommodation to my ADHD aspect
DAVID KESSLER: of things. Well, and, and it's really talking about how, like, the impulsivity for you really helped you learn almost networking skills, right?
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah. Like, like- Yeah ... your impulsivity really helped you, like, figure out how to use a system. While I didn't, I didn't pick up that kind of- Yeah ... nuance until I was in college. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, I didn't get that. So for me, it was like, "Oh, there's a, a big paper you're gonna have to write." I'm like, "Well, not if I don't write it."
DAVID KESSLER: "Well, then you'll fail it." And I'd be like, "Fair enough."
BOBBY RICHARDS: But then I, then, then I would look at you, and I'd be like, "Man, I wish I could, I could be like that." 'Cause a lot of it too is just the paranoia of n- of, of going, "Well, I, I also n- I need to pass this thing," 'cause I could kind of project the future. Like you said, like, the opportunity cost.
BOBBY RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. I could kind of see, well, what is this gonna cost me? How is this gonna be a pain in the butt later down the road? I know it's gonna be something a hassle, uh, so what can I do to work it out? But I, I [00:23:00] f- I would always wanna be like, "Oh, man, if I could just throw-"
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah ...
BOBBY RICHARDS: throw it in the wind. You know, throw it to the wind and not care.
DAVID KESSLER: Is that like, are you speaking to kind of like imposter syndrome?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: What is imposter syndrome? It's the belief that you don't belong, or there's something, like, inherently wrong with you on the inside. You have to be perfect to cover that up, and it's the fear that you're gonna get found out. Like, you're secretly this imposter.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Not so fun to live with. Um, but most of us do, I mean, in all honesty. Anyway, back to what we were saying.
BOBBY RICHARDS: I think it's perfectionism- Part of- ... and imposter syndrome. Yeah. And, and yeah, and not wanting to, like, cause waves. You know what I mean?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Draw attention to yourself?
BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: It, it's so funny, like how, like you're living in this world where you don't want to cause waves, and I'm living in a world where no one's making waves, and-
DAVID KESSLER: all I can do is make waves. You, you make- Yeah. Like I'm the dude in the- Yeah ... in like the, like placid pool, like walking around, like making ripples. Everyone, everyone else is walking with no ripples, and I don't know how they're doing it.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: And it's just like, it was, for me it was a constant assault on like, "You're not a good person."
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): Mm. "
DAVID KESSLER: You're a bad [00:24:00] per- like, you're doing things that bad people do." And which is why I made such a point to like, I, I too was like, "You won't bully people around me." Like, I was a very like righteous person around. Like, you, you knew me back then.
ASHLEY (DAVID'S CHILDHOOD FRIEND): I, yes, I remember a lot of these things.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah, which is shameful.
DAVID KESSLER: But like no. But it's like, but I, what I also wonder is like, what is it like, you know, and I can't really speak to what it's like to all of a sudden have these characteristics and, you know, not be white.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: And like how are you perceived? I can't tell you how many neural psychs I'm seeing or how many kids I see that are diagnosed oppositional defiant or conduct disorder.
DAVID KESSLER: Oppositional defiant disorder is a clinical diagnosis that's applied to children marked with intentional acts
DAVID KESSLER: of disobedience and conflicts with authority. This is different than ADHD and at times can be similar. It's similar because somebody with ADHD might fight tooth and nail to get a Snickers bar and not care who they're fighting, but it's about the Snickers bar.
DAVID KESSLER: When we're dealing with someone who's oppositional defiant, they're gonna fight tooth and nail the person because of who the person is, not because of the Snickers
ISABELLE RICHARDS: bar.
DAVID KESSLER: The answer is they're [00:25:00] not white, otherwise they would've caught ADHD.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, yeah. Just, and I'm,
DAVID KESSLER: I'll be-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, just echoing that, yeah ...
DAVID KESSLER: I'm just gonna be that.
DAVID KESSLER: I'm sorry it's bombastic or hyperbolic or whatever, but it's something I'm, I'm constantly seeing. And what I'm also wondering is, y- like what is it like to be a woman with ADHD growing up? And like what- Oh ... kind of messages do you get? 'Cause my message was, "You'll break something and no one should trust you."
DAVID KESSLER: Like that was, that was the message that like, "And you'll probably go to jail." Oh. Ha-ha, I have a graduate degree. Ha-ha. But like
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes. Well, and not just that, but truly you fix things and, um, what was the other part you said? You break stuff and no one will, won't trust you.
DAVID KESSLER: Will trust me.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: No one will trust you.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You're super trustworthy. Yeah. Here we go.
DAVID KESSLER: Right.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: That's what I was trying to do.
DAVID KESSLER: Well, it, it's ironic, like what, what systems believe you to be versus who you really are.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. That makes- Like the exact opposite. Yeah. Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: Thank you so much for listening. If you've ever had that thought where you think, "Hey, I'm nothing," stop.
DAVID KESSLER: Remember, you're something. Something shiny.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: That's right, just as you are. If you like what you heard and you want to hear [00:26:00] more free episodes of this podcast, please subscribe, rate, and review anywhere you listen to podcasts. We're on Instagram as Something Shiny Podcast. And if you're looking for more information, useful links, definitions, visuals, everything we can think of and more is on our website at somethingshinypodcast.com, and it's all free.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you in two weeks.