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Art of Spousing is for marriages that what to move from being mundane to becoming masterpiece relationships. Hosts James and Lisa Duvall share truths and lessons learned from their 30 years of marriage and over a decade of teaching, coaching, and speaking on marriage.
It was as we've looked back in that
season, it was survival mode to get back
to normal. I was trying to find normal and
doing anything I could, even pretending
that I wasn't paralyzed, that I can stand.
That was a big thing, and that was a big
celebratory day that I could stand and
that I could take a few steps, but I took
that and I wanted that to turn into I'm
good. I'm ready to come back and lead
worship on platform, and I'm ready to come
back and work in the office 40 to 50 hours
a week. And in hindsight, I was not ready.
Welcome to the Art Espousing Podcast.
Thank you for taking time to listen. Today
we're excited about the content we want to
share with you. We believe it's going to
be helpful. To your marriage practice.
Yeah. If you're new or newer to the. Show,
we want you to know that the reason we do
this podcast is because we really believe
that every marriage can move from mundane
to masterpiece level. But we know
personally that a work of art doesn't just
appear, it requires intentionality and
practice to be crafted in shape. So our
goal with every episode is give you tools
to practice that will help your
relationship not just survive, but truly
thrive. We just finished up a fantastic
week in both Atlanta, Georgia, and then
Columbus, Ohio. Oh, I o. Uh huh. We had a
great opportunity to be at Chick fil A's
windshape retreat center. So beautiful for
a marriage collective. We've got to
reconnect with some friends who have been
guests here on the show, like Howard and
Danielle Taylor, shanti Feldhan and Travis
and Adele Graham. And we got to meet some
new friends we hope to introduce to you in
the future. I love people in the married
space. Yeah, it was awesome. It was a
great time, and we do look forward to
introducing you to some of those friends.
But today we have Jeremy and Courtney
Rosemary on the show with us, and you're
really going to be inspired by their
story. But before we go there, we always
want to take a moment to talk about the
marriage reboot seriously, a game changer
for married couples. This is a two day
intensive with Lisa and I, where we focus
on defining the purpose and vision for
your marriage. Yeah. The reboot process is
designed to bring clarity and
breakthroughs to every aspect of your
marriage. Together, we will craft plans
for multiple domains of your life and
marriage, creating a solid framework that
will help you manage and continually renew
your relationship in. The future so you
and your spouse get our undivided
attention as your dedicated marriage
coaches for two full days and then we
follow it up with coaching on the back
end. We'll guide you through a journey,
helping you identify where you've been,
define where you are now, and discover
where you truly want to be together. The
experience is designed for marriages in
all stages, but we know that the marriage
reboot will make a huge difference in your
marriage. You can find out more at art
espousousing.com marriagecoaching. You can
also message us on Instagram, where we'll
send you a link to schedule a 30 minutes
call with James and I to hear more about
the reboot. Now let's jump into our
conversation with Jeremy and Courtney
Rosebury. Courtney and Jeremy, it is so
great. To have you on the podcast with us.
Thanks for spending some time with us
today. Yeah, so good to be here. Thanks
for having us. Love you guys. We've known
each other, I guess, for about a year,
maybe a little bit over a year. And I
remember the first time, Jeremy, that you
and I were having coffee together at a
Starbucks and you began to unpack your
story with me. I knew then that we needed
to get the two of you on the podcast to
share your journey because it's going to
be so encouraging and helpful for couples
who are listening to the podcast today. So
thank you for being with us. I'd love for
the start by our audience, getting to know
you a little bit. So take us back to the
beginning trip down memory lane. Tell us
your marriage story and kind of a little
bit about yourselves. Yeah. Courtney and I
met in 2008. At the time, I was living in
Dallas, and I was 25 years old and Court
was 19. At that time, I had been in
ministry for seven years, single. My
parents were always asking, is there a
girl who are you dating? And I just chosen
not to date anybody. And then, as it would
turn out, Courtney and I, we met at a
beach wedding, a wedding that I wasn't
necessarily invited to go to in Destin,
Florida. And Court was the maid of honor,
and we met on the boardwalk right by the
beach. And a friend of mine introduced
Courtney to me, and all we got was our
first name with each other. When she
walked away, I said, who is that? Who's
that girl? And my friend told me, that's
Courtney, she dates God. She's never held
hands with the guy. And all I thought in
my head was, I have to get to know this
girl. And the only thing I had after the
wedding was, it's Courtney with a K. And
she's on MySpace. If you guys remember
MySpace. Courtney, do you have anything to
add to this? Is this accurate? It's
accurate. I did not remember him at Me,
but he found me on MySpace, and we dated
on MySpace for a month. And after that, I
asked question after. Question to get to
know her. Yep. And we had our first date a
month after that, and we were verbally
engaged on our second date. So met to
married in five months. Yep. Wait a
minute, your second date, you verbally
committed to marry each other. Yeah. So if
we rewind back to MySpace, she sent me her
phone number, and I finally called her one
night, late at night, I think it was nine
or 10:00, I was finishing something at
church, she answered, and we stayed on the
phone till 07:30 a.m. The next morning.
That was our first phone conversation
together, which turned into me asking her
on a date. So I drove. I have to rewind a
little bit. Whenever I went on MySpace, I
looked her up and she was living in my
hometown. And so I noticed, because I'm
living in Dallas, Texas at the time, but
I'm originally from South Louisiana, and I
noticed on MySpace she's from the same
hometown. It's called Rain, Louisiana.
Rain is not known for much. It has a
Piggly Wiggly. And the town got really
excited whenever they got a Taco Bell. So
for her to be from Rain, Louisiana, and
I'm finding her on MySpace was a big deal.
So when we had our first date, our first
date was 17 hours. Her mom actually said,
don't come home until, you know, if you
want to marry this guy. Wow. She had never
really dated in high school, which was
just for me, just this treasure. That's
why I was pursuing her the way I did. My
first MySpace message was, hey, my name is
Jeremy. Don't worry, I'm not a creeper.
Which was kind of creepy to say. We met at
the beach wedding. You're the most
beautiful girl I've ever met. I'd love to
get to know you more, if you'd be
interested in that. And then we actually
made a book of all of our MySpace messages
in our 1st 16 days of getting to know each
other. Yeah. That's incredible. It's kind
of funny that you first met at a beach
wedding because you guys both are such
beach people. We are. We love the beach. I
have a clarifying question, though. I know
all listeners are thinking the same thing
I am. So did you actually grow up in the
same town and didn't know each other?
That's right. Actually, the private
schools that we went to were like rival
private schools and really small private
schools. Wow. But there's an age gap
between us. So Jeremy played his senior
year. He played sports against my older
brother, and my mom has video footage of
that, but I'm like a 7th grader at the
time. That was our second date. Whenever I
figured all of yeah, we. Figured all of it
out. And her mom asked me what high school
I went to, and then she said, oh, I think
I have video of my son playing basketball.
And sure enough, she not only had video of
him playing basketball, but Courtney was
in the stands, eleven or ten years old,
and I was on the basketball court playing
her brother, 1716 years old, very small
town. Small town. Okay. Another clarifying
question. I'm wanting to know because you
were dating God right, when you met him
and then you actually came to this
decision pretty quickly. I mean, that's a
pretty fast turn. So how did God let you
how did you break up with God? I was going
to say that, but. Then I'm like, so how
did the turn happen that you're like, this
is it. Because obviously if you're that
committed to the Lord and know it, that's
a decision that you're making. So I'd love
to know how you came there. Yeah. So not
to go all the way back to the beginning or
anything, but as a really small child, I
remember my mom giving me the best advice
ever and she said, hey, every night when
you say your prayers, pray for your future
husband. And that stuck with me my entire
life. So I always prayed for my future
husband all the time. So when I met
Jeremy, it was like we had this connection
real spiritual. It was just I can't even
put it into words, though. But on our
first date, it's the first time and only
time in my whole life I heard God's
audible voice and he said, this is him.
You will marry Jeremy. And that was on our
first date. So I had no question, I had no
what ifs. It was like, no, I heard God. I
heard God like I've never heard, know,
speak anything else before sitting on. Top
of the library that we weren't supposed to
be on our first date. We did. We trusted.
Yeah. Our first date, we were driving past
a library that was under construction.
Courtney had said, I want to work there.
And so I just pulled the car into the
construction parking lot. It had caution
signs and I got her to get out of the car
and walk past all the 20 foot ladder,
climbed a 20 foot ladder on top of the
roof of the building and, yeah, we spent
the evening getting to know each other,
just talking. Yeah. So when I think about
God giving you such a clear directive,
this is who you're going to marry. I'm
thinking about your story and I'm thinking
that really matters because I'd love for
you guys to go into a part of your
marriage story as you enter into marriage
and why that statement is really going to
shine through, I'm sure. Yeah. That
statement shined through on our second
date where we were verbally engaged,
because for both Courtney and I, god had
spoken to both of us very clearly about
each other. He'd spoken to me just two
weeks prior to us meeting through someone
who came up at the end of a worship set
and pulled me to the back of the church
and said, I have a word from God for you.
And I honestly was thinking, oh, no, not
another word from God. And she looked at
me and she said, you've been single for
seven years, and God wants to let you know
he's sending your bride to you very soon,
and she's going to understand the same
intimacy that you've had with me. She'll
understand the same. And so whenever the
first thing that was told to me about
Courtney was, oh, that's Courtney, she
dates God. And that's what caused me to
want to pursue her and for court. She had
also had something very similar just six
months prior to meeting me. And that's why
God's speaking that to her heart and God's
voice. Yes, that is a thread through our
story, for sure. So now today we are
celebrating 15 years married. Coming up
very soon. We have two kiddos, one who's
ten and another who's eleven. We have
owned four houses. We have moved twelve
times in five states. Louisiana, Texas,
Alabama, Indiana. Now Florida what we like
to call paradise. This is home. This is
where we love to live. And our story being
married, it does take a turn. 2017, we
were living in Alabama at the time, and I
had kind of grown up. I had had back
issues and had what doctors say spinal
stenosis with a little bit of nerve
pressure and pain. However, before 2017,
Courtney and I, we had only known God's
favor, his voice leading us. We had not
really either of us experienced any
significant personal trauma. We're very
fortunate to grow up in protected, safe
families. Families very vanilla. Yeah. We
had only experienced if we asked God for
it, he gave it. And so sometimes I've
tried helping others, saying before that,
I had only known favor without having to
fight for it. And then 2017, I'm on staff
at a church in Alabama, and I had been
praying to be healed from back pain that
I'd had since I was a teenager. And
surgery was recommended when I was in my
early twenty s, and at the time I was 33,
medicine had progressed quite a bit, and
so the availability of surgeries were just
so many more that wouldn't require such a
long recovery. So Courtney and I
interviewed a few doctors, and then we
made a decision that I would have a very
simple microdisectomy four hour outpatient
surgery. I would be leading worship in
seven days. And as we were preparing for
this, courtney reminded me I was planning
on actually going on a missions trip just
a few weeks later, post surgery and all of
that. To say, the day that I was in pre
operation, I remember looking at Courtney,
and I'm an enneagram seven, so I defer
nervous energy with jokes, and I looked at
her and I said, well, what's the worst
that could like, I'm not going to be
paralyzed. And that is one of the very few
things of the next few months that I
actually do remember, because just a few
hours later, waking up from anesthesia I
was, in fact paralyzed, waist down. I
remember waking up and grabbing Courtney's
hand and saying, hey, I can't feel I can't
feel my legs. I can't feel saddle areas.
Something's not right. The doctors met
with us, and they let us know that the
condition was a condition called
caudiaquana. A condition that you sounds
made up. It does. And we didn't know what
that was. And they even expressed in that
moment. We found out later not many
doctors know much about it. It was like we
say that winning the lottery in reverse
the chances of it. It's a neurological
condition that basically crimps all your
nerves at the base of your spine, and it
can cause various neurological issues of
which many affect your lower waist areas.
Full paralysis or partial. Most of the
doctors are letting us know in that
moment. Some people live their whole lives
with the condition, and it never clears.
And then others, over several years, it
alleviates. So there was a lot of question
marks in that moment that all of those
conversations and even the next four
months, a lot of it I don't remember.
Courtney and other friends have had to
fill me in on conversations that were had
full conversations. Well, your world just
completely turned upside down. It did.
Yeah. And at the time, the kids were
little. They were only four and five years
old. So yeah, it was crazy because he was
supposed to be walking. It's an outpatient
surgery. Like we hadn't planned for
anything to ever gone wrong. And then
after this surgery, the doctor suggested a
second surgery, which I was not in favor
for. No more doctors. We believe this will
just the doctors think it'll clear on its
own in time. We don't know what the time
frame is, but it should get better. He
opted for the second surgery. She begged
me not to. I begged him not to. So he had
the second surgery, and he ended up
getting a spinal infection from the second
surgery, which led to needing a third
surgery to clean out the infection, which
led to Hickline. Hickline got infected. He
was doing in home nursing care with IVs.
And that lasted a good bit of time. Yeah.
Months. 22 weeks. All three surgeries were
within three weeks of each other. The
month of May was nothing but surgeries and
doctors and hospitals. I was the patient
that all of the nurses said, we don't want
to see you back here. Yeah, it was months.
The few things that I do remember I
remember laying on our couch, and I had
asked Courtney, what do you remember? She
said, I remember you crying a lot. I
remember seeing emotion that I had never
really dealt with before. Extreme
depression, extreme uncertain of why God
had allowed it to happen. And I remember
laying on our couch in our living room in
Alabama, and I would lay there. I'd have a
pick line in my arm. I'd have a wheelchair
next to me, we'd have a medicine bag
that's dripping antibiotics in me for I
think it was twelve weeks while the nurses
would come in during the day at the house.
And I remember looking at and Courtney
knows this. I remember looking at this
clock that we had in the living room while
asking God, what's happening? While
questioning. Can I play with Grant Amelia
again? Can I pick them up? What does it
mean to be a husband to Courtney in this
condition? Hearing the voices of the
doctor saying, knowing the different cases
of how long there are some who live their
whole lives fully paralyzed and then some
that it took so many years, I try and ask
God, like, what am I still useful in
worship ministry and as a pastor? And I
remember in that season laying and just
looking at that clock and it didn't have a
seconds hand. So I'd watch the minute hand
move very slowly and then I'd fall asleep
on the couch from medicine and pain meds
they'd given me. And then I would wake
back up and I was still in the same
condition day in, day out. Those are
things that I remember during that season.
Very the lowest, most painful time of my
life. And even since one of the lows for
myself in that season was I remember being
in the wheelchair. And I remember I
couldn't find Courtney because Courtney
was my everything. And by that I mean
everything. She was my nurse, she was the
person who prepared all the food, and she
was the person who got pill bottles and
medicine and made sure everything was
sterile and clean. I remember I couldn't
find her in the house. And so I got myself
into the wheelchair. A very low moment. I
don't remember what week or month it was,
but Courtney needed a place that she could
cry without me seeing her cry. And I
remember I had to wheel myself through the
house and wheel myself into her master
bedroom, through our bathroom and then
into our walk in closet. And Court had
kind of found this little spot that she
would just go and just cry in the closet.
I remember I couldn't get out of the
wheelchair to comfort her, to put my arms
around her. I remember in that moment, not
really even knowing what to tell her, I'm
usually the voice of optimism. I'm usually
the one who's all faith and all optimism
and all God's going to do it and just
really not knowing, seeing her, seeing
that her world had been completely the
foundation of stability, had just been
completely removed. Very low moment in our
story. But even through all of that, I can
remember that even from the very
beginning, there was a lot of not knowing,
a lot of fear wanted to take hold of us.
But I remember beyond like a shadow of a
doubt, just knowing this peace, this
overwhelming peace that just really made
no sense to anybody else around us.
Everybody else around us probably thought
that we were they probably thought that we
were being very ignorant and just trying
to stay so faith filled and trying to
really say, no, God's got this. We were
believing for a miracle, being ignorant.
And people were like, I think you all are
just being ignorant of the facts. And
facts are court, you're not even 30 yet.
Jeremy's still very young. He's only 35.
You're pretty young to be disabled and you
need to think of your future. And I just
remember having this overwhelming peace
that no, like, God's got this. And it
doesn't make sense to the natural. It
doesn't even have to make sense to your
family and friends. But when God speaks to
your heart, you just know. And that's
really where I was most of the time now.
Sure, there was overwhelming times where
I'm like, all right, life is heavy right
now, taking care of the kids, wondering
what's our marriage going to look like at
the time, what were we, seven years
married? Still very young in marriage. We
found in that season, as we've looked
back, we found the foundation that you get
to walk on in your faith in God. And if
your faith doesn't have a foundation, it
has nothing to stand on. Then we had to
find in that season of walking through a
very dark valley that, oh, this is the
foundation that our faith can stand on. I
remember us both having conversations
about, we don't know if today's going to
change, we don't know if tomorrow is going
to change, but we're going to trust that
God's going to heal. I do remember Court
saying, I know God's going to heal you,
which for her takes a lot of faith. Yeah,
I'm an Enneagram six, so I have a plan for
every kind of disaster that you can even
just imagine. So having this unwavering
peace does not come natural to me. So
that's how I know it was supernatural, it
was God. I know that that came from having
just a lifestyle, having the word of God
in you. It's not like if you're going to
walk through something hard, it really is
when it's going to happen. And having the
word of God in your heart is really why
you need to have it there. It's like for
when those hard times come. And that's
what we were able to really just stand on.
So where did it take a turn then? So we've
got to this low place and what transpired
that turned physically and upward and
spiritually in an upward trajectory? It
didn't for a moment, in answering you very
honestly, it did not. The practicalities
of life stayed very low and we chose to
choose joy. And I remember me, I even
bought a T shirt that I wanted people if
they saw me in the wheelchair, I wanted
them to see choose joy because it's a
choice and it's not happiness, but it's
just joy because happiness felt far ways
off. Joy, though, was different. So we
started game nights at our house. On
Tuesday nights, we would invite a few of
the college kids to come and hang out and
just play games and I would just sit
there. I don't remember them, honestly,
but I know we did that. We would still
have couples coming over and they would
bring dinner and they would hang out at
the house. Again, I don't remember it.
I've had full conversations with people
that they've let me know, and a few of
them have blackmail video of me saying
certain things. And so many things didn't
change in the natural. But we made a
choice together. And that, I do know,
changed a lot. I remember Courtney came
home and she bought some henna tattoos
that had joy and faith and happiness. And
that became just something I was doing
with the kids at their age just to try.
She was amazing at trying to just include
me and trying to help be the buoy for my
personality in our relationship. I've
never had to be the cheerleader. That's
always been Jeremy. He's the optimistic,
happy, fun, fun one. So for that season, I
had to put that on. It was very know. I
think from the very beginning, we've
always been a team and you have to know.
Yeah. And in answering your question,
Lisa, it got better slowly over time. It
wasn't fast. The church that we were part
of went through two seasons of 21 days of
prayer. And I remember watching the whole
church pray, and they would pray for us
specifically. And over time, my body at
least the paralysis, started to heal. And
the way I started walking initially was
actually with still paralysis taking
place. And that was through physicians who
let me know. You can retrain your brain to
actually walk without being able to feel
your legs. And they weren't wrong because
that's actually what I started doing, was
standing behind the wheelchair. So in
answering your question, some of it just
came small incremental with both Courtney
and I, never stopping communication with
each other and checking in with each
other. Some of those check ins were very
hard. A lot of those check ins were very
raw about just day to day life. We did
have quite a few people that offered to
come and live in and help court and
Courtney took them up on that help because
I can be a little needy whenever I'm in a
wheelchair. Yeah. It sounds like you all
stayed connected in communication,
obviously, raw communication, honest
communication. But then are you even
knowing that he's not actually registering
and remembering anything? Right. That's
actually really good because he was really
good at just like he's got a big
personality and I think he was able to
convince everybody else that he was doing
really well because he was on a lot of
medication. The doctors honestly were
going to keep him fully medicated for
however long just because of the severity
of this incident that they couldn't figure
out, really. So you wouldn't have known
it. He was just highly functional, never
really missed a beat. Just wanting people
to come over and hang out and wanting to
stay active and going like, I'd have to
take him out. And he couldn't drive, so I
was driving him just to keep you. We went
to the ninja warrior gym. We went ice
skating. Well, he didn't, but he's all
about activities and things of that sort
because he was living, like, staying at
home and not going to work. So he was
getting really restless. I was able to
kind of catch on that things weren't
really with you going so smoothly because
for a while he's the leader of the house.
Right. I support 100%, but he does a lot
of the leading, and then when I figure it
out, I'm like, wow, his clarity is not so
great there. The medication is really
blocking a lot of what's going on. I'm
lucky that he is a talker. He's a verbal
processor. So that is a big, big part of
just how we stayed connected is that he
didn't close off of what was going on in
his head. You really shared all the
things. Yeah. I love it. So how long
before you finally got full function back?
You weren't suffering prosth? How long was
that whole season? You didn't go back to
work until November? Yeah. In going back
to work, I fought to go back to work, as
it was told to me in a later season, I was
not myself and how diligent I was to make
sure that I could go back to work. I was
not ready to go back to work. Okay. May to
november. May. November. But you would
have thought from the outside that he was
completely fine by july. You would have
thought if you weren't living in our house
and seeing the condition of the bathroom
alone, the wheelchairs, the walkers, the
IVs, everything else, you would have
thought, oh, he's 100%, unless you were in
the house. And for me, it was as we've
looked back in that season, it was
survival mode to get back to normal. I was
trying to find normal and doing anything I
could, even pretending that I wasn't
paralyzed, that I can stand. That was a
big thing, and that was a big celebratory
day that I could stand and that I could
take a few steps. But I took that and I
wanted that to turn into I'm good. I'm
ready to come back and lead worship on
platform and I'm ready to come back and
work in the office 40 to 50 hours a week.
And in hindsight, I was. Not ready. I was
pushing from my oversight, and my friends,
even at the time, they said we were
talking to someone who was not who we've
known you to be. We were talking to
someone who was very driven and very
stubborn, and I've had to ask for
forgiveness from those seasons. Yeah, I
came back too soon. I was still having to
use medical assistance to use the restroom
all the time. But because I was back, I
didn't want anybody to know that only
Courtney knew that I was still using
medicinal assistance to function in any
capacity. I was often trying to drive into
the office and just threw my guts up in
the toilet and then trying to come into a
meeting at a church where everybody's
looking all put together and we're about
to talk through the service flow. And I
was throwing up from pain meds and the way
that my body was responding to them and
how I was taking them. So even in the
middle of saying, god, you're healing me,
honestly, I think it's just my own
insecurities, my own not fully trusting
God that he was going to take care of me
and my family. My own drivenness from that
trauma, especially in seasons of looking
back and saying I was fully responsible
for even the next seasons that followed in
our marriage and how it affected us. But
today, obviously, I'm healed. And God
slowly brought healing about through my
physical body and in our marriage. And
we're so much better for it today, for
that season. It's actually something we
look back on and we say, had God not
allowed that, we would not be where we're
at today. We would not be as healthy as we
are today. Had God not allowed that test.
And that's what we refer to it often as
is, are you okay? If God says, I just
allowed that to happen, to test your
heart, to test your values, to test your
character, to test your marriage, are you
okay? And there were many seasons that
Courtney and I were like, we are not okay,
with that being the answer that you
allowed that to happen. We're not. Today,
almost seven years later, we are getting
closer and closer to saying, thank you,
God. Thank you that you allowed that test.
Thank you for what that test produced in
us. When we talk about intimacy or
connectedness, people talk about it in
different ways, but we talk about there is
spiritual connectedness, emotional
connectedness, recreational, which I feel
like you guys even your activity, your
spirit of doing activities that you're
trying to actually keep those going and
then the spiritual intimacy that you have
the makings of forging a very deep,
intimate, connected life. Just even in our
own personal marriage story, my background
and upbringing wasn't protected. So I'm
entering into marriage with a lot of
emotional baggage that we have to actually
work through, which actually is what
caused us to have a lot of conversation
and grow in communication and James long
suffering and patient and all that. It's
just a part of our story and it's a part
of, I believe, why we have a deep intimate
connection again in all those areas. God
used all of that, even all the we talk
about physical touches, non sexual touch.
But Courtney, you've probably touched him
a lot, getting him moving. There's a lot
of close proximity that. You just go, it's
really cool in light of how we view
intimacy and connectedness, that God was
actually keeping those together in this
rawness of communication of where you are
and even saying, hey, this may be God's
story for us and we don't agree with this
right now. And that's real. That's real
life. It sounds like you guys coming out
of this actually came out more intimately
connected than you went into it. We agree.
And I'm guessing without being too
personal, there probably wasn't much
sexual intimacy when you're paralyzed from
the waist down. No. That's why I think
sometimes people get all messed up when we
talk about intimacy because it's all about
sex. But actually you guys have come out
more intimate in your marriage as a result
of this season. Right? Right. That's
beautiful. I've had Courtney look at me
several times now since in a fight,
honestly, and she'll look at me and say,
you're my person. That's awesome. Which
means we're going to make it through this
conversation. I love that because we've
made it through much worse before. Oh,
stars in heaven. You guys have. Yeah. I'd
be interested as you think back through
that season and if you were to project
into maybe people who are listening today,
what are some things that you've taken
from that season that would help you
through another crisis or that would help
somebody who's maybe going through a
crisis right now to walk into that? So
what really helped us, and I think it
really can help pretty much anyone else
out there going through something is
James. One, two through four. And I like
the way the message says it and it says,
consider it a sheer gift. Friends, when
test and challenges come at you from all
sides, you know that under pressure, your
faith life is forced into the open and
shows its true colors. So don't try to get
out of anything prematurely. Let it do its
work so that you become mature and well
developed, not deficient in anything. I
love that. And the part that really stuck
out to me was don't try to get out of it
prematurely because when you're going
through a trial, I'm like, when is this
going to be over? What's life going to
look like after it? But if you get out of
it prematurely, the Bible says you won't
be mature or well developed. And, I mean,
that's what we want. We want to be mature
and well developed. Yeah. Our advice that
we would give to another couple would be
conversation. It's the ultimate of your
relationship, the quality of that
conversation. It's okay if that
conversation is working through not seeing
answers. It's okay if it's a depressed
day, having quality conversation. One
thing that Courtney and I did twice also
through that conversation, was we had
quite a few times we weren't getting
along. The stress was too much either on
me or on her. And I remember we held our
own marriage conference at our house
because we couldn't go anywhere. And I
remember I initiated that. And I told her,
I said, hey, we can't go anywhere and
we're not talking very well, so we are
going to and we found a marriage
conference online that they had it on
YouTube. And I just said, hey, if you're
okay with it, at night, we're just going
to watch the first session, and then we're
going to pray, and then we're going to go
to bed. And we did that. We actually did
all six of that. And I'm not going to say
that that alone changed everything, but
that definitely was something we look back
on and we've told other couples who are
going through impossibility situations,
whether medical or just in their
relationship, and saying, sometimes you
can't wait for the next marriage
conference. You actually kind of need to
bring it to you. And that's the beauty of
the technology age we live in. They're
online. There's so many resources, so
many. And those resources for us brought
back quality words into our marriage,
brought back quality thoughts, and helped
us regain some language of keeping us back
on track. And I know another scripture
that we've lived on is three stranded cord
is not easily broken. But what I love to
say and I've got to see in myself, I'm
easily broken, and I don't want to speak
for you, courtney's easily broken, but
Jesus at the center, he's not broken. And
that I think God allowed that for Courtney
and I to realize that that, oh, there's a
three stranded cord. If it's just two,
we'd have broke a long time ago. If that's
all we had to rely on was my strength and
my optimism and my ability to make things
happen, well, I think God brought my
humanity out in that. And if all we had to
rely on is Courtney's incredible
assessment of threats that could come and
stability and foundation always being
there, well, we could find that too, is
broken without Jesus being at the center.
And so for any couple who's listening,
know that you're already broken. Know that
you're already not enough. Give yourself
permission to be that. Give yourself
permission to be human. Give yourself to
be permission to be what god created you.
He created you from dust and dirt, and he
put you together and molded you together,
but he also breathed his spirit inside of
you. And that's that third strand that he
put inside that's not easily broken and
allow outside voices to speak into that
part of your marriage, speak into that
center thread of your marriage because
sometimes you're going to go through
seasons that you're going to be broken on
both sides. The other two halves are going
to be broken. That's awesome. Well, thank
you guys for being on the show today so
much. Appreciate you guys and look forward
to continue watching your marriage
journey. Thank you guys. Thank you, Jeremy
and Courtney for being on the show with
us. We love that we get to watch your
marriage masterpiece up close and personal
from now on. I am completely inspired by
their love for each other and just their
resiliency. Through all of that. We would
love to hear your thoughts and answer any
questions you have about. What we've
shared today. You can email us at hello at
art espouspousing.com or direct message us
on instagram at art espouspousing. Yeah.
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