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The Middle of Culture is what happens when two siblings with too many opinions and not enough chill dive headfirst into movies, music, video games, and whatever else is rotting our brains this week. It’s part pop culture podcast, part sibling rivalry, and fully unfiltered. Expect passionate arguments, niche references, unsolicited rankings, and the occasional moment of unexpected insight. If you’ve ever wanted to eavesdrop on the kind of argument you’d hear at the family dinner table—only with better audio—this is your show.
Peter (00:01.554)
Okay. This one do be mine, correct?
eden (00:06.518)
It's all it's all you, baby. It's all you.
Peter (00:13.508)
Welcome back to the middle of culture. I am one of your hosts, Peter.
eden (00:17.676)
And I am your other host, Eden.
Peter (00:20.622)
Eden, how are ya? We we talked a little bit before, but you hangin' in there?
eden (00:25.174)
I'm hanging in there. I'm making it happen. We're we're figuring it out. How about you?
Peter (00:30.876)
About the same, about the same. Staying busy, getting ready for our upcoming trip, which, you know, I I've realized will be my longest flight that I've ever done.
eden (00:44.774)
how long is the flight?
Peter (00:46.77)
it's pretty long. I don't know. I I mean I haven't been on that many long flights. My longest flight to date really was when I was going to Guatemala or maybe yeah, I think Guatemala. But
eden (00:53.496)
That's fair.
eden (01:00.012)
Have you been to Hawaii?
Peter (01:02.084)
Yeah, that's probably longer. Yeah. It doesn't feel that long. Maybe it's six hours.
eden (01:03.138)
That's a pretty long that's a pretty long flight.
eden (01:10.604)
Is that it? Well then hell, yeah, go pr crossing the Atlantic is a heck of a lot longer than that. That's like ten or twelve. At least it was when I was flying to to England.
Peter (01:11.931)
Yeah.
Peter (01:22.224)
Yeah, you know, again, I just all I know is it will be longer than any flight I have been on before. But you know, getting ready for that, looking at getting a few things set up for our trip over there. do you know, do the touristy crap. We're doing a a tour that's a one whole day where it basically goes to Windsor Castle and then out to Stonehenge and then comes back and ends up at like Oxford.
eden (01:30.893)
Nice.
Peter (01:49.454)
So it's supposed to be most of the day, like eleven and a half hours, I think is what it said. So
eden (01:54.302)
Whoa, that's a lot.
Peter (01:56.337)
You know, we've got enough days. We might as well we can spend one day doing that, I figure. But did a little set up a couple other things like a r you know, a Thames River cruise and do a little thirty minute loop on the London Eye and crap like that. So I figure
eden (02:12.546)
Nice. Yeah, you like you said, you gotta you gotta do those touristy things, because you don't get to do those very often. Especially if it's a place you're only gonna go maybe one time ever. Like the first time I went to New York City, you had to do the touristy stuff. And now, once you're like old hat, then you're like, no, I I'm not doing any of those touristy things. But those first couple times you gotta do touristy stuff.
Peter (02:20.346)
It's true, like I say.
Peter (02:37.606)
Yeah. I mean that's my thought is I I would like to probably go back at some time, but who knows what's gonna happen. And so this is this is, you know, I'm just gonna do it. I'm just gonna enjoy enjoy the stuff and and I've been considering it's a little too late now, but I I will not lie, I very seriously considered getting listen I matching t shirts that said, Trust us, we hate him even more than you do.
eden (02:48.376)
Make it count.
eden (03:08.0)
I bet you can still get those. Surely you've got a local place that can make t shirts for ya. We got like three in this town alone.
Peter (03:10.48)
I probably would have.
We could, we could. I'm just not much of a t-shirt guy, so yeah, I've definitely been thinking about that though. But you know, whatever. Well, what you been checking out lately?
eden (03:24.162)
Yeah, it's fair.
eden (03:27.894)
let's see, what have I been checking out? let's start with music. a couple of episodes ago I mentioned that La Seraphim had a new album out. it's very good still. I've been listening to that. But guess who else had a new album come out? Acepa had a new album come out. It's a full length, it's not a it's it's not an an EP, it's an LP. It's called Lemonade. It's very, very good. It's very fun. has some real bangers on it.
Peter (03:37.34)
Mm-hmm.
eden (03:57.636)
and then perhaps most exciting of any I mean not as exciting as La Seraphim, but more exciting than Acepa, Itzy had a new EP drop like a day ago, two days ago. It's great. It's called Motto, and I have been listening to it a lot. The thing that's fun about the new Itzy album is the first three tracks are like group songs, and then the last five tracks
Peter (04:10.992)
Okay.
eden (04:26.378)
Each of the girls in its it's e it's a solo track. So that's really fun because they can each kind of shine and like you can really see what are the strengths of each of these individual singers, what is the kind of music they're interested in making when they're making their own music. A couple of them have done some some solo EPs, but most of them have not. and so it's really fun to just let each of them shine in that way at the at the last half of this EP.
So I've been having a very fun time listening to that yesterday and today.
Peter (04:54.747)
Nice.
Peter (04:58.97)
I have to just say y you're naming these bands and and in my ignorance you're just kind of making sounds.
eden (05:07.648)
Listen, that's what it feels like when you're naming them. You know, I got into a a newish K pop band the other day. Their name is Isna, I Z N A. And then I got into another there's another one I've been listening to recently called Meow but spelled E O V V
Peter (05:17.456)
Okay.
Peter (05:26.961)
Okay.
eden (05:28.12)
But they're meow. So, you know, they're they're nonsensical names. It's just kind of how K-pop is. Again, if you had told me a year ago, Eden, you're gonna become a weird you're gonna fall down a K-pop hole. I wouldn't believe you. And yet we watched that goddamn K-pop Demon Hunters movie. And then I was like, should I listen to some other K-pop? This is your fault. You picked that one. And and I've been
Peter (05:48.622)
He did.
Peter (05:52.752)
It's true. I did. I will
eden (05:55.608)
I've been in a K-hole, but not that kind of K-hole, a different kind of K-hole. This is not ketamine. This is K-pop.
Peter (05:59.355)
Yeah.
Peter (06:02.948)
You know, I will I I will own I'll own that one because you're right, it was my fault I did suggest it.
eden (06:11.852)
And I appreciate it. I've been having a lot of fun getting into it this year. It's something light, it's something fun. Voluminous production. These people put out a whole lot of music.
Peter (06:15.1)
Good.
Peter (06:20.378)
yeah. You know, I mean that's always exciting when you find something you like and there's lots to listen to.
eden (06:28.674)
Yeah, there's a lot of it. And some of it is very, very good. Most of it's just pretty good, but some of it is very, very good. But I'm ha I've been having a lot of fun with those two new releases. in terms of reading stuff, I have continued to chip away I think I've mentioned it here. I've continued to chip away at long awaited feelings. Did I mention long awaited feelings before?
Peter (06:50.53)
eden (06:51.234)
Maybe not. It is a web novel that I've been reading. I've been it it's finished, it's all translated, so I have an e pub. But it's one of those things where it's just a very long. because you know, on my on my my books Palma, the average ebook that I read I I keep the font fairly small. It was shocking when I was at book club the other day I pulled out my e reader and showed people what what size font I read and everybody was apparently
Peter (07:04.198)
Okay.
eden (07:21.282)
befuddled that I would read so small. And I was like, listen, I don't, I'm, I'm not old yet. I'm not that old yet.
Peter (07:27.996)
Like you're like my eyes can handle.
eden (07:31.084)
My eyes can handle it. but anyway, the average book is like between two fifty to six hundred pages. You know how it like dynamically changes the page thing on the bottom? That's, you know, a a fairly long one is gonna end up being five fifty, six hundred. Most books that I read are in the two to four hundred range. Like it's not that big of a deal. And again, that translates to, you know, for example, you know,
Peter (07:39.644)
Yeah, yeah.
Peter (07:47.986)
Okay.
eden (07:57.346)
apothecary diaries is gonna be between about two fifty to three hundred pages on the books. And that's about how many pages they have in hard copy. So like, you know, we could do some math there. Long Awaited Feelings has nineteen hundred pages.
Peter (08:05.339)
Okay.
Peter (08:11.292)
Holy mother, that's a lot.
eden (08:14.538)
It's really long, but it's really good. I'm really enjoying it, especially for being a fan translated thing. it's not a professional translation, but it is about this woman who dies and then her ex is super torn up at her death and then she basically like goes back in time and is alive again.
And is like, I gotta get her back, because I thought she was over me, but sure clearly she's not over me. And I was so sad that I died. Now I've got a chance to make things right. but it like really goes into like the entertainment industry and like what does it mean to be a movie star? What what are the things that are expected of you when you are on a reality TV show?
What do you do? Like, what is it like to have a team of people that you are directing to be like, you need to go on social media and you need to do this and you need to contact this group over here? And like all of the machinations of like, how do we like minimize these things that these like malign actors are trying to do to our image while promoting the things we want to do and also trying to get back together with my ex? it's quite good. I'm liking it quite a bit. It's very light reading.
it goes down real smooth, but it's very long. I'm like five hundred pages deep in it, which again would have been a book or two, basically anything else I've been reading. But I'm enjoying it. I'm also very deep into a very long comic. I finished today the fourth volume of How Do We Relationship. I don't know if I've talked about that here either. so I've read the first eight or nine volumes of it before, but it wrapped up recently. Volume 14, which is the last volume.
Peter (09:35.367)
Yeah.
Peter (09:42.492)
There you go.
Peter (09:54.714)
Sound familiar.
eden (10:02.072)
got published a couple of months ago. So I am rereading it all in anticipation of reading the back third or so. and it remains what I felt about it back when I read the first eight or nine volumes, easily the best romance comic I've ever read. it's very, very good. And I think a lot of what makes it so good is how real and true the characters feel. It doesn't feel like an idealized depiction of romance.
Or or i and and the so often, especially in a romance story, it's like the pursuit is the motor and then once they're together, that's kind of the climax of the thing, you know? So it's about like how do these people get together and then they get there happily ever after or whatever. That's not the way how do we relationship is built. the main couple got together in chapter two and they and they broke up in chapter four. They broke up.
Psycho dumped Miwa because she realized Miwa wasn't in love with her the way she was in love with the girl she was still hung up on. so she dumped her. And now they're like friends, but like it's in a weird situation because they still are in a band together and they're still seeing each other at school all the time. And they have all these shared friends. So they're being friends and they're like, it's cool, we're over it. It's cool. But they both still have these simmering like
feelings on psycho's part it is she's still in love with Miwa and on Miwa's part she feels bad about how things broke down and that she never liked Psycho as much as Psycho liked her. it's really really
Peter (11:43.846)
Nice.
eden (11:44.662)
It's very, very, you know, just tightly constructed. It's gorgeous to look at. It's one of the best comics I've ever read and easily I like I say, the best romance comic I think I've ever read. I finished Power Watch Simulator too.
Peter (11:55.153)
Awesome.
Peter (11:59.066)
very good.
eden (12:00.846)
It was a lot of cleaning, but I got it all cleaned, baby. I got that temple cleaned. yeah, it was fun. It's a good game. I'm excited in a couple of weeks for the Star Wars expansion to come out. I will absolutely be buying that so that I can power wash an at at because who doesn't want to power wash an at at? I do. I do. I passed on the adventure time one because I was like, I don't need adventure time. But Star Wars
Peter (12:04.675)
Excellent.
Peter (12:18.938)
Yeah. I mean th that does sound pretty good. That sounds pretty good.
eden (12:29.878)
It's still got its hooks in me and I'm gonna buy that. but for now I've taken a break from that. and then I was like looking for other games about cleaning. to be like, I yeah, I had a good time with it. I don't necessarily want to go back to regular Power Wash Simulator One. I've played it enough. I wanna try some different stuff. and then there was something that was advertised on Steam.
Peter (12:39.782)
Okay.
eden (12:55.866)
And I looked at it and I was like, what's that? And then I clicked through and I was like, Mistakes, mistakes. You can't buy this. I can't find the name of it right now. Basically, it's a porn game that you also clean things in because there's a gigantic woman. It's attack of the fifty foot woman, but you're spraying her with a water gun to clean her off. And I was like, I don't need to I want another cleaning game. I don't need a porn one, guys. I'm good. Thanks, no thanks.
Peter (13:09.604)
Peter (13:22.598)
You're like that that's not what I was looking for.
eden (13:27.116)
I'm not no, it wasn't. So I played Laudlots, which is a game or Laudl Knot, which is a game I had started a year or two ago and played it for an hour or two. But I went and it's it's another you you're under the ocean on this planet and you're basically cleaning up after an ecological disaster. and it was quite good. I had a good time with it.
Peter (13:46.128)
Okay.
Peter (13:49.5)
Good to know. It's one of those that is in my Steam library from I'm sure a humble bundle.
eden (13:54.592)
It's very quick. I I played the whole thing in five hours. So it was like a a fairly quick, fairly discreet experience. It's very cute, has very f fun pixel graphics. You find these things called lotles that look like little axolottles and you feed them and then they evolve and you can build little biomes and all that kind of stuff on top of doing all the cleaning. It was pretty fun. and then the last thing I will mention, as I have continued playing Withering Waves, it's very important to know this patch is the Cyberpunk crossover.
Peter (13:58.053)
Okay.
Peter (14:24.346)
I saw that in the I think it was being advertised in the app store.
eden (14:29.708)
Well, Cyberpunk is here. I went to Night City as my Wuthering Waves characters. And it's it's apparently a sequel, a denouement to the TV show that I have not gotten to yet, but I hear is very good, and I'm even more tempted to watch Edge Runners now, because I really did enjoy the story in this, and I know that this is basically it takes place after the end of the series and builds on the story of what happens in the series.
so I'm really tempted to watch that now. but it was very fun. I had a very fun time with it. And that's kind of what I've been up to. What have you been up to?
Peter (15:07.29)
Nice. just a few things. for me, I'll start with games. I went back to Diablo 4 and finished the Lord of Hatred campaign with the warlock. Got to the end, enjoyed it, had a good time. I've been starting now to go in and you know I've reached my level 70 and I'm getting paragon levels. And so I'm I'm kind of going through that a little bit. I did a little bit earlier today. not a ton, but
eden (15:21.507)
Good.
Peter (15:34.941)
Diablo 4 is fun and I liked the Warlock class. I mean, come on, you know, killing demons by summoning your own demons, that's that's just a good time. I I am thinking, you know, I'm gonna play with the Warlock a little bit more, and then I'll go back and I'll start a paladin and see what the paladin's like in Diablo 4. I really enjoyed the paladin in Diablo 3. the paladin had a lot of cool things and abilities. So I want to see how Paladin is in in Diablo 4 and check that out.
eden (15:43.0)
That's pretty satisfying.
eden (16:04.514)
I do have Diablo four now thanks to the humble bundle, but I have not I have not booted it up at all.
Peter (16:06.66)
You do. Yeah.
It's I think it's fun. It's Diablo. It's more Diablo. It feels a little slower than Diablo 3. so when I've gone back and played Diablo 3, I'm like, this is fast. But I've also gotten a lot of gear that has made my character move a lot faster. And and so it's that has sped up a little bit. I like Diablo 4. I've enjoyed it. again, I'm never gonna be one of those people whose min maxing and you know.
eden (16:13.74)
Yeah, it's more Diablo.
eden (16:22.828)
Yeah.
eden (16:38.872)
Sure.
Peter (16:39.622)
Doing all this because I I don't want to play a single game that long to, you know, farm for all of the specific sets of gear for this one particular build and all that stuff. I'm not worried about getting to who knows, torment level eighty-five or whatever the crap it goes to. I really don't it doesn't go that high, but you know, they they got a little crazy with the torment levels in Diablo three and Diablo four where it's like it's not, you know, normal, hard.
whatever torment. It's just like this and then torment and torment torment torment torment torment. It just keeps going and going and going. But but yeah, I've been enjoying that. I have almost please, please
eden (17:15.266)
Yeah.
eden (17:20.204)
I do have before you go on, I have one question about Diablo 4. And this will basically decide should I play it in the next week or two or should I play it sometime in the distant future? Is is the Demon Hunt?
Peter (17:32.647)
Try.
eden (17:36.92)
Can I play as the demon hunter? Well then I'm good. I'm by Diablo 4. That's the only class from Diablo 3 I like.
Peter (17:45.158)
The Demon Hunter was fun. I did enjoy the Demon Hunter.
eden (17:47.852)
I just liked having dual pistols basically and just firing two oozies barr everywhere you were going. That was great.
Peter (17:54.131)
I that one was great. And then I loved when she coupled that with popping up the turrets.
eden (18:01.838)
That too. The Demon Hunter was really good. And if they had that, I would absolutely go play Diablo 4 tonight. But since they don't,
Peter (18:08.996)
I will say I played The Rogue and went through The Rogue way back when Diablo 4 first came out and really enjoyed The Rogue. it would be your closest option to the demon hunter, but it is not the same. but you know, there you go. so I have almost finished. I'm about 82% of the way through, I think was what my Kindle tells me. Anji Kills a King. it's a debut novel from book talker Evan Leikam.
eden (18:24.226)
All right. Well I'll think about it.
Peter (18:38.622)
I'm enjoying it, but I don't like Anji. At least thus far, there has been very little character growth. She is whiny, she is impetuous, she is self-obsessed. You you get little hints at as to why that is the case, but I still don't really like her. the world has hints of a very interesting world, but it's been very judicious.
eden (18:46.446)
Okay.
Peter (19:08.376)
At meeting out little bits of what's happening in the world. Again, I'm 80-something percent through, and I still have very little idea of what's going on, other than corruption at the top, oppression at the bottom. So I'm enjoying it. I think I'm trying to remember. I know he is working. I want to say there's a second book that is either out or is
eden (19:24.558)
Sure.
Peter (19:36.334)
is soon to come out and I think he is writing a third. I'll see how it wraps up before I decide if I'm gonna go to book number two. I've enjoyed it, but not as much as I wanted. Go ahead.
eden (19:45.708)
I do think
I do think it's tricky to do a prickly, unlikable protagonist. It's absolutely possible, but there's a level of juice you have to bring to it that I think is hard for most authors. I think especially for a first-time author, that's gonna be a little tricky to make a really like kinda unlikable, prickly protag and pull it off.
Peter (20:14.108)
Yeah, and it's it's tough because like I want to like the character, but she keeps giving me reasons to not like her. So, you know. and then some music I want to mention. Khemmis, Denver based Doom band, released their self-titled album. I think it's their fifth full length. it's good. I really like Khemmis. I think their second album, Hunted.
eden (20:25.922)
Interesting.
Peter (20:44.252)
Probably one of the best, certainly Doom band doom metal albums in the last 20 plus years. It's awesome. Since then, they haven't been quite as strong, but Khemmis brings some things that I really like. They've got really good, crunchy guitars and do nice things with kind of the dual guitar harmonies. I really like the vocals and the vocal harmonies. There's still some bits here and there of harsh vocals and stuff.
But I I I really like it. It is unmistakably Khemmis. I haven't given it a ton of time to really say where it stacks up in maybe the last three of their albums, but but I do enjoy it. in the shadow of your shadow, the new single from Cult of Luna from the upcoming album that's coming out in November. It's real good.
eden (21:37.974)
You can't you can't drop a a song in June for an album in November, guys. That's rude. That's rude.
Peter (21:44.241)
No, no, they can. They can. And it's good. It's good. And I would say that ooh, Johannes Pearson. I don't know if it's he's getting older or if it's just other stuff he's done, but these are some like there's just a little extra grit to his his vocals and it's good. It's good. I I may f I I may have set up with with my Hermes agent, I have the pre-orders for the physical
versions of this go on sale next Wednesday. Because I will be in clinic and it's often easy for me to forget and not log on until the best final variants are out. I have a cron drop that's going to kick off at 8 a.m. And every 15 minutes it's going to look at the Red Creek page. And as soon as it sees that the pre orders are up, it is going to send me a link to go ahead and hop in and get something. So so I'm I'm excited about that one.
eden (22:37.762)
Okay.
Peter (22:39.586)
And then another one, another single from an upcoming album, Light Pollution, from the upcoming album Solaris, by the band The Ocean. Yes, Solaris inspired by the movies that we have watched. I Love the Ocean. And I was a little nervous because after Holocene, they sort of said, you know, this era of the band has reached an end. And so the ocean is really interesting.
eden (22:52.737)
Okay.
Yeah.
Peter (23:09.2)
They started out as the Ocean Collective. And it was this big group of kind of rotating people. And the first few albums had a number of different different musicians, with Robin Stapps being the key member. You know, it he he was the key writer, the guitarist. Then it was, and I don't remember which came first, whether it was, I think heliocentric came first before anthropocentric, but when those two albums came out.
They had recruited Loak Rossetti. He was the vocalist. And it really kind of created this mini-album stable group up through Holocene. And then I think it was down to the band was down to Robin Stapps and maybe one or two other people left. And they've brought the band, they've re- you know, kind of got some other people in. They now have two vocalists. They got a dude, they got a female. They're both very good.
eden (23:44.45)
Yeah.
Peter (24:04.752)
There are still some hints of Loick Rossetti's style in the guy, but it doesn't sound exactly the same. And Light Pollution is a banger of a track that really, you know, again, when there's this big of a change, I was I will ful fully admit, I was a little nervous. And all it took was one listen to light pollution for me to go, no, the ocean is still one of the most interesting bands in metal right now.
eden (24:21.656)
Sure.
Peter (24:35.01)
And so I'm super pumped for the new album. But yeah, I think that's about it for what I've been checking out. Shall we move on to our main topic? Okay, so our main topic for the day. You know, I'm getting ready to head out. Eden's got a lot going on. You've got an upcoming work conference and all this kind of stuff. And I I didn't want to give us too much homework because just
eden (24:36.664)
For sure. Cool.
eden (24:43.096)
Cool.
Let's do it.
Peter (25:03.92)
Sometimes it's nice to have a a non-homework episode. So I I threw together a list of questions for us to maybe share some hot takes. This is just going to be a bunch of rapid fire questions. And just, you know, throw out your answer and give us a brief explanation. We're not going to do a time here and we'll see how many of these we get through. And then at some point, if we decide we've done enough, we'll stop. But
eden (25:08.109)
It's true.
Peter (25:31.164)
We've got kind of some movies, TV, music, books, games, general stuff, and a few other things that we l we're just gonna s we're gonna see how it goes.
eden (25:41.708)
And I think it's important to note, I am a hot take factory. I love to be contrarian. I love to be contrarian.
Peter (25:49.526)
and I am a I I am fully aware of this and that is one of the reasons I thought this would be fun to do.
eden (25:56.268)
Just yesterday at the comic book shop, we had we were talking about bat like superhero movies or something. And this guy, we didn't know this guy, he wasn't a regular, like I don't know if he was from out of town or if he was coming in for the first time. He sat there and he said to me and Jackson at the counter, it's not like anyone would defend the Schumacher Batman movies. Dog, you are talking to the two wrongest people to talk to that about. Because let me tell you what.
At Daydreams Comics in Iowa City, we like our Batman gay and funny. So the Schumacher movies are great. I'll defend I'll defend Batman and Robin. I think is the second best Batman movie. I think it's great. George Clooney is a bad Batman and he's very funny, and he's got nipples on the Batsuit, and he taps his heels together, and ice skates come out of his boots. He's got the bat credit card. It's great. It's a great movie. So again.
Peter (26:33.586)
There you go.
Peter (26:38.226)
Okay.
Peter (26:52.72)
Okay. Yeah. Again.
eden (26:53.986)
Hot takes. I'm a hot take. I again another another another hot take yesterday. I was telling people that I think saving private Ryan is a bad movie. Because we were talking about Spielberg movies, because Spielberg's got a new movie out, and I said, Yeah, he makes good movies and then he also makes bad movies, like Saving Private Ryan. And every dad in the comic book shop looked at me like I was a crazy person. And I was like, listen, it's a bad movie. I don't know what to tell you. It's not a good one.
Peter (27:17.906)
Okay. Well, let's hit some hot takes. I like I say, I I figured you wouldn't disappoint. And and we're gonna start with the question that actually from whence this idea to do this episode came. And that was I listened to a podcast where their entire like 30-minute episode was the three hosts discussing. Tell us, Eden, what is the correct Star Wars watch order?
eden (27:21.644)
Let's do it.
eden (27:43.619)
Release.
Peter (27:45.38)
Okay. Okay. So four five six one two three seven eight nine.
eden (27:46.156)
Release No question I
Yes, and no, it's four five six one two three. Rogue one.
Peter (27:54.874)
Okay. Okay. Rogue one. There we go. All right.
eden (27:57.23)
Here's the thing. Here's the thing. I've heard the arguments for the machete viewing order. It's dumb. Don't do the machete viewing order. Watch four, five, and six. Take some time. Watch one, two, and three. Take some time. These are different movies. They were created in different cultural, sociopolitical, and technological milieu. And it's important to situate them in that space. And if you just like
Peter (28:26.277)
Okay.
eden (28:27.25)
run through the whole series super fast or if you try to mix them up or do it chronological, I think it's gonna feel jarring. I think going from Revenge of the Sith to Star Wars is gonna feel bad.
Peter (28:39.858)
Okay. Okay. I think you should watch four and then five and then six. And then if you would like you can watch Rogue One and you should say fuck the prequels and double fuck the sequels.
eden (28:40.834)
What do you think?
eden (28:56.908)
Here I was waiting for you to say I think you should watch four, five, six, and the two Ewok movies.
Peter (29:02.546)
They're bad. They're so bad. I loved them as a kid. They're so bad.
eden (29:06.442)
I have not revisited them. I have them on DVD. I have not revisited them. I keep threatening to do a double feature with my friends because most of them have never seen them. And I'm like, they're bad. and also it is super incoherent that the first one is like Swiss Family Robinson and then at the start of the second one, they kill that whole fucking family except for the girl. They just murder all of the characters from the first film. It's great.
Peter (29:09.787)
Lord.
Peter (29:18.502)
Yeah.
Peter (29:24.825)
yeah, it's harsh.
Peter (29:30.204)
Yeah. No, that like I say, I heard this and they started arguing and they asked the question. I thought to myself, you know, I would watch the original trilogy. And Rogue One, good movie. You can watch Rogue One if you want, but it's not necessary. but I I really, really hate the sequels, and I think that I can safely say I hate the prequels. I still haven't watched.
eden (29:41.783)
It's fine.
eden (29:55.95)
That's fair.
Peter (29:59.203)
any more of Andor than we watched for this podcast, even though I recognize that it was very well made and I liked what we watched, but I have such a mental block against anything Star Wars related. And it is not the sequel's fault. It is the prequel's fault. And it is George Lucas for taking a big old fat, dirty dookie all over my nostalgia for those, because the Phantom Menace is a bad movie. Attack of the Clones is a bad movie.
eden (30:25.57)
It is.
It is.
Peter (30:29.262)
And I think that everybody who defends Revenge of the Sith needs to get their heads on straight because that movie sucks.
eden (30:35.17)
They do. Nah, it's good, but it also sucks.
Peter (30:39.188)
I hate it. I hate it so much. All right. So, question number two. Which movie franchise should be barred from ever making another entry?
eden (30:49.228)
Which movie franchise? Just wide?
Peter (30:50.812)
Yep. Yep. Just which movie franchise do do we need to not ever have any more entries in?
eden (30:57.56)
That's a good question. I don't know oft I mean Star Wars, probably. We should never make another Star Wars movie. But that feels trite because we just talked about Star Wars for three minutes. all of them. We're done. No more franchises.
Peter (31:03.792)
Yeah, I'd be okay with that.
Peter (31:14.354)
See, I'm gonna aim real low. I'm gonna aim real low. And say, you know what? They should just stop fast and furious. We're done. We don't need any more. We don't need anymore. No, we don't need anymore.
eden (31:22.944)
No! That's the only one I want to finish. You don't even watch those movies. You don't know how 10 ended. 10 ended on a cliffhanger.
Peter (31:32.268)
We don't let us just imagine what happens next. We don't need to see it. Okay. They are. I look, I I have thoroughly enjoyed every single one I've ever watched, but I would be perfectly okay never watching another one.
eden (31:35.0)
God, I want to see it though. Those movies are bad, but I love them.
eden (31:48.558)
Yeah.
Peter (31:49.714)
All right, Kay, best picks our movie.
eden (31:52.73)
best Pixar movie. That's a hard question for not the reason that you think that I'm saying that, dear listener. I don't like Pixar movies.
Best Pixar movie is Ratatouille.
Peter (32:08.218)
Okay, okay.
eden (32:09.911)
Yours is the Incredibles.
Peter (32:11.438)
It's the Incredibles. I love the Incredibles. I absolutely love the Incredibles. Okay, so
eden (32:16.076)
Yeah, I don't like so again, I don't I just don't I I think they're overrated. I feel the same here's the thing, I feel the same way about Studio Ghibli. When everyone's like Sicco's mode for Studio Ghibli, I'm like, watch some good movies, guys. They're fine. They're fine. They're not the best movies ever made. And that's how I feel about Pixar too. And especially the ones that I feel like are the most like universally acclaimed are the ones that piss me off the most. Like Wally is good for the first half, and then they get on that spaceship and I'm like
Peter (32:28.092)
Ha ha.
eden (32:46.062)
ableism and fat phobia. Go fuck yourself, John Lassiter. that movie sucks. Wally sucks as soon as they go to space. It's great on the planet. I don't care for the Incredibles very much. I understand that it is a good superhero movie, but I don't like a lot of the stuff that comes along with it. I think there's too many to Toy Story movies. I don't like them.
Peter (33:09.734)
Yeah. Yeah.
eden (33:10.958)
And I haven't seen most of the newer ones. I haven't seen the sequel to to the feelings one Inside Out. Is that what the Feelings one's called? Didn't see that. Didn't see Turning Red. I haven't seen that stuff.
Peter (33:17.734)
Yeah, inside out too. I haven't se you know, here's
Peter (33:24.634)
Here's what happens. I was a Pixar Sicko when it was like these are the best movies to take my kids to because I will enjoy it and my children will. And now that my youngest child is almost seventeen, I haven't seen a Pixar movie in a long time. I have never seen Toy Story Four, and Toy Story Five's coming out. I'm totally uninterested. Maybe that should have been which movie franchise should be barred from making more movies. No more Toy Story, please. Thank you very much.
eden (33:39.554)
You don't gotta go to anymore. You have to disengage.
eden (33:52.718)
There you go.
Peter (33:53.842)
All right, what is the correct maximum runtime for a movie?
eden (33:57.89)
The correct maximum runtime for a movie is ninety minutes.
Peter (34:01.862)
Okay, okay. I'll give I will go to a hundred and twenty, but but max out at a hundred and twenty.
eden (34:07.308)
I guess, I guess, but good God, when you boot up a movie and it says 87 minutes, you're like, ho ho ho Yes. I love when a movie clocks in under 90. That's a perfect length. Anything longer than 90, my my attention's gonna gonna go. sometimes they're too long. you know, we I I talked last time how we watched The Batman again, and that movie's too freaking long. I like it.
Peter (34:13.275)
so exciting. It's true, it's true.
Peter (34:29.35)
They are.
eden (34:36.61)
But three hours is an hour and a half too long for a superhero movie.
Peter (34:40.112)
I mean, we've talked about how I have still refused to watch it because it's three hours long.
eden (34:45.836)
Yeah, you should watch it but break it up over a day or two. It's real good.
Peter (34:49.466)
Or you know, maybe I'll just throw it on my iPad and I'll watch it on my eight hour flight to London from Minneapolis.
eden (34:54.488)
That's a great idea. you d yeah, that's a perfect time to watch it. You're trapped.
Peter (34:58.534)
Yeah, yeah, we'll see. It's true. I am. here's one that I don't know how I'm gonna answer this, but I'm gonna throw out there. Which masterpiece of a movie is actually really boring? Yep, that's kind of my thing. Cause like I don't that's the problem is I any master any masterpiece I've seen just didn't stick with me because I and I don't want to watch any of them.
eden (35:09.728)
Most of them.
eden (35:19.566)
Here's the thing. sometimes it's true. Like, you know, everyone's like, Citizen Kane's the best movie ever made. And unfortunately they are kind of right. Like, that one's real good. And it's because it was a bunch of guys who'd never made a movie before. So they didn't know what rules they had to follow in terms of things like framing shots and composition and timing and all of the rules about making a movie in the 50s. They could ignore them because they didn't know them.
And that's part of what makes Citizen Kane such a banger. But I feel like that is kind of the exception that proves the rule. I feel like most of the so on so called masterpieces are not quite as good as their their reputation would lead them lead one to believe. Godfather one is better than Godfather two.
Peter (36:07.91)
Well, speaking of sequels, name a sequel that's better than the original. I'm gonna go ahead and I'm I again I'm I'm taking this is just this is the kind of movies I watch. Captain America Winter Soldier. Better than Captain America First Avenger. Yep, it is.
eden (36:11.852)
Not Godfather two.
eden (36:26.476)
No, it's not.
It's not Captain America when the first Avenger is the best MCU movie.
Peter (36:33.628)
Captain America the first Avenger is boring. It's boring.
eden (36:36.928)
No, it's not! Tommy Lee Jones is there and he's an old general and it's great. I love that movie. the best sequel to another movie is. God, now I don't know. I don't know. I'm usually a first movie sicko. It you know what it is? It's the fast and the furious Tokyo Drift. There you go. To bring it back to the Fast and the Furious. That's the Fast and Furious three.
Peter (36:42.765)
It's boring.
Peter (37:01.138)
Okay.
eden (37:06.348)
The one that's not about Dom Toretto, that's the good one.
Peter (37:10.458)
Okay. All right. Let's do some TV. Which beloved TV show should have ended at least two seasons earlier? I agree.
eden (37:17.772)
Most of Like every comedy that ever got more than two seasons should have ended at two or three seasons. everyone. that's true of The Office, it's true of Brooklyn Nine Nine, it's true of Parks and Wreck. It's true of Cheers. It's true of Golden Girls. it's true it's absolutely true of Arrested Development. Everything you can name, you should have cut the back half of it off.
Peter (37:42.214)
You know which one should have ended way more than two seasons earlier? The Simpsons.
eden (37:46.946)
Huh. Yeah, I listen, I've never really watched The Simpsons. This is a thing that blows people's mind when you say, I think I've seen three episodes of The Simpsons ever in my life. But that is true. I think I've seen three episodes from beginning to end. I've seen clips online. I watched the movie with a friend back in the aughts. I had no context for it. And I was like, I mean, this is fine. It's okay. The the Simpsons are there.
Peter (38:04.668)
Sure.
Peter (38:10.084)
I'm I d I watch very little of the Simpsons. I've and especially in the last I don't know ten years. I haven't been interested 'cause it's just whatever. All right. Best series finale.
eden (38:23.308)
Best series finale. boy. That I feel like there are some real contenders. I feel like Babylon Five is a real contender. I feel like MASH is a real contender. I feel like I mean those are kind of it for me. Those are the two biggies. What about you?
Peter (38:36.528)
Yeah, that's a good one.
Peter (38:44.082)
Okay. you know, this goes to how little TV I actually watch. I agree with you that Brooklyn 99 overstate, it's welcome, but I think that the final episode is a really, really good one. I think they do a really good job of of kind of wrapping things up. I don't know. I mean, what about worst? Give us give us give us a worst. Worst series finale.
eden (38:58.113)
It is. It's quite good.
eden (39:10.754)
the worst series finale. that's a good question. A lot of them are bad. I feel like the I feel like it's hard to hit a landing. It's hard to do an ending. that's not true. I was gonna say almost every Star Trek ser I was gonna say every Star Trek series, but that's not true because all good things, the two parter series finale for next generation is the best episodes of next generation that ever existed. But most Star Trek most Star Trek series finales are quite bad.
Peter (39:18.694)
I think it is. I think it is.
eden (39:41.24)
But they're not the worst. I don't know what the worst one is though. That's not you know what the most batshit one is? Battlestar Galactica.
Peter (39:47.986)
What's that?
Now which one? The newer or the old one? okay.
eden (39:54.796)
The new one. I I haven't watched the old one all the way through. I watched it a couple of times and I was like, wow, this feels like Mormonism, and that's for a reason. and it's not very good, so I never finished it. But I did watch all of the Otts version and boy does that go to some bad places in the last season or two and has the most incomprehensible final episode that you'll ever watch.
Peter (40:01.372)
That's what it? Yes.
Peter (40:16.786)
Okay. I think that the Seinfeld finale is hot trash.
eden (40:21.804)
Yeah, no, it's not good. But I'm not a I'm not a big Seinfeld person. I don't hate it, but I don't like it.
Peter (40:23.9)
Yeah. But then again, I also hate Seinfeld. I I I'd really dis I really, really dislike it. let's see. reality TV. Defend one show.
eden (40:30.967)
I don't like it very much.
eden (40:39.112)
F-Boy Island is fun to watch.
Peter (40:42.212)
Okay.
eden (40:43.874)
Have we talked about F Boy Island? God. Cassie and I watched a couple of seasons of F Boy Island together, and the premise of F Boy Island is Buckwild. Because the idea is you have at least in the season that I remember most vividly, you got three girls and they're there to find love. You got 24 guys. Twelve of those guys, 12 of those guys are nice guys who are there to find love. Twelve of those guys?
Peter (40:45.68)
No.
Peter (41:05.947)
Okay.
eden (41:14.008)
Peter, they're fuck boys.
Peter (41:15.538)
Hence the name.
eden (41:17.55)
Twelve of those guys are fuckboys. So all of these guys are trying to get with these girls. Because whoever ends up at the end, like at the end, whoever is coupled up with the woman, that couple gets $100,000 to start their love relationship together. Or if you are a fuckboy, you can say, sorry, babe, I'm taking.
Peter (41:34.869)
Okay.
eden (41:47.116)
The hundred thousand dollars for my self.
Peter (41:48.956)
Okay, okay.
eden (41:52.406)
So you, as the fuck boy, have a real incentive to ingratiate yourself and act as if you are a nice guy because you want her to be convinced that you are there for the right reasons and not because you want 100k, but you want 100k. it's very funny. The other funny conceit about that show is as men are voted off at the end of each episode, you know, they send men away. If they are nice guys.
Peter (42:03.452)
Mm-hmm.
Peter (42:17.052)
Sure, sure.
eden (42:20.066)
They go to a very, very nice villa and they just get to hang out for the rest of the filming and just like they get all the food they want. They're in it's this beautiful th villa overlooking the sea and also overlooking the beach. And on the beach is where the fuck boys go. They are in a literal prison camp on the beach as punishment for being fuckboys. They have to live in the sun on the beach in a fenced in area.
Peter (42:41.5)
Ha ha ha.
eden (42:49.942)
And so there are scenes of the nice guys in the villa drinking margaritas and looking down on the fuckboys in their prison cell. It's very funny. yeah, that's the one I'll redes I'll defend because it's fun as hell to watch. How about you?
Peter (42:50.002)
Okay.
Peter (42:59.09)
Okay.
Peter (43:05.166)
Okay. Well, so here's a question. D does Taskmaster count?
eden (43:10.168)
Taskmaster counts, I guess. Yeah. It's a reality show, sort of. It's like a reality competition.
Peter (43:14.012)
That's kind of what I thought. But if we think about other things, I would say I actually never so I I've never really watched very much, but the few times I remember seeing episodes of The Amazing Race, I thought, this is an interesting, it's kind of a cool kind of a cool conceit. So I'll I'll go I'll I'll go I'll go Amazing Race. is adult animation doing more interesting work than prestige live action drama?
eden (43:29.71)
Yeah.
eden (43:33.838)
That's a good
Peter (43:43.526)
Okay.
eden (43:43.67)
Adult anim what d tell me more about adult animation. There's one good adult animation show. It's called Bob's Burgers.
Peter (43:49.469)
See, that's the thing, is I couldn't find much. But it was you know, I've had this thought bouncing around is is animation more interesting in some ways, but I I agree with you. I d I don't think right now there's there's that much of it. I don't think it's nearly as strong as as it could be.
eden (44:01.356)
Yeah, like i I I think we're in kind of a nadir for prestige television too. I think everybody tried too hard to capture the well, first it was Mad Men and there was that first wave with Sopranos and then it became Mad Men and then it became Game of Thrones. And now everything wants to be Game of Thrones. That's not prestige, that's garbage. It's garbage. It's very expensive garbage. People seem to like it, but it's not like they're not doing anything interesting. It's just like violent, salacious
Peter (44:20.7)
Yeah.
eden (44:30.818)
Fantasy shit. I don't care. I don't care.
Peter (44:32.71)
Yep. Okay. Let's do some music. what is a quote classic album that you'd be okay to never listen to again?
eden (44:42.648)
the entire Beatles discography?
Peter (44:45.554)
So so in my head I was gonna say anything by the Beatles. I think we're on the same page there.
eden (44:50.71)
Yeah. I I I know for a fact that I like the Beatles more than you like the Beatles, but I'm fine. I don't ever need to listen to the Beatles again. I've listened to enough.
Peter (45:02.492)
Yeah, okay. best decade for music.
eden (45:08.386)
Best.
eden (45:13.29)
It depends on what music.
Peter (45:15.012)
Okay, pick a genre.
eden (45:17.482)
I mean if you're talk 'cause if you're talking jazz, are we talking like the seventies probably. if we're talking rock, we're probably talking the eighties. If we're talking pop, we're probably also talking the eighties. If we're talking alt rock, we're talking the nineties. If we're talking indie rock, we're talking the aughts.
Peter (45:34.002)
Okay.
eden (45:46.03)
If we're talking K-pop, we're talking right now, baby.
Peter (45:49.628)
So for me, obviously metal would be the thing. And I don't know. I would say maybe 2010s. Like it's hard.
eden (45:56.876)
I feel like the twenty tens is a good a good time for metal. I don't know if it's the best time for metal, but it's a real good time.
Peter (46:00.403)
I think so.
Think it. I think it is. I think it was. It's tough because, you know, I don't know. The 90s, little, little, little grim there. There were a few standouts, but overall, not great. And then we started to get back in the early 2000s and the aughts, but I think it was the 2010, 2010s. I think that was where metal really started to kind of get back its stride and really start branching out and and saying, there's a lot of really interesting things we can do within the metal genre.
eden (46:10.978)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
eden (46:33.282)
Yeah.
Peter (46:33.61)
And I think that's kind of carrying forward to today, but I think that's what I would do. so name a band that broke up or called it quits too late.
eden (46:45.006)
Too late? that's a good question. Dream Theater.
Peter (46:46.438)
Yeah.
Peter (46:54.555)
Yeah.
eden (46:55.822)
'Cause they should have put out three albums.
Peter (46:59.066)
Yeah, yeah.
eden (46:59.928)
Three ever. They should have been done after awake.
Peter (47:03.364)
I agree. They're first three because that's about all I can go back and listen to. There's moments on some after that, but if I'm gonna listen to a full dream theater album, it has to be one of those first three. And
eden (47:07.649)
Yeah.
eden (47:12.896)
And it's really not even the first one. It's really just two or three. I w wouldn't do it anyway. Yeah, I probably wouldn't do it anyway. let's see. Who are folks who are actually broken up though? I feel like Dream Theater just sort of counts because they've cycled out like eight tenths of the band. I don't know. Who's broken up?
Peter (47:16.676)
And and honestly, I have not listened to a dream theater album in well over a decade.
Peter (47:35.974)
I don't know. See that's my problem is I was I can think of bands that I'm like, they should break up, but I'm having a hard time thinking of bands that
eden (47:40.61)
They should break up. You know who should you know who should have been done a long time ago? OPEF.
Peter (47:46.032)
Yeah. Yeah, I s
eden (47:47.296)
I don't like their new music. I have fifteen years of all mi misses, no hits, guys.
Peter (47:52.677)
Have you listened to Last Will and Testament, their most recent album? I know a lot of people are like, I've heard so many people who are like, Opus is back, Last Will and Testament. And I just I couldn't be interested. Okay, we're gonna keep moving on again. let's see. Ooh, greatest live album ever recorded. I think I know what I mean, I I I have an inkling of what I think you're gonna say, but you could, you could, you could fool me.
eden (47:56.212)
No. The last two were so bad.
eden (48:14.414)
Greatest.
eden (48:21.262)
Greatest live album ever recorded.
I don't know. What are you gonna say?
Peter (48:29.338)
Well, so greatest is a hard greatest is a bad word for this. Because it's and the problem is is the music is so subjective. So I think greatest is a is maybe a bad word. here's what I'll say. I think gun to head, I would say exit stage left by right.
eden (48:35.0)
Greatest is a hard thing to decide.
eden (48:53.944)
That's their best one.
Peter (48:56.014)
And they have a lot of live albums, but that is I would agree.
eden (48:58.05)
Too many. I would argue too many. Back in the day I was like, four studio albums and then a live album, that's good. And then it was a studio album and two live albums. And I'm like, no guys, I'm done. I'm not I'm not here for this anymore.
Peter (49:03.974)
And then a live album.
Peter (49:12.924)
Yeah, a couple other really good ones. And this is just again, this is what I listen to. Lamb of God's live album, Killadelphia, is very good. And while I struggle a little bit because John Schaeffer is a right-wing nut job piece of shit, Iced Earth's three disc Alive in Athens is also very, very good.
eden (49:40.814)
Yeah, here's my choice. This is gonna be a little out of left field, but I'm gonna do it anyway. it is the bang on a can recording of Terry Riley's NC.
Peter (49:51.502)
Okay.
eden (49:53.89)
That particular recording. Cause the thing about NC is that everybody who records it records it slightly differently because it is modular music in that way. It's neoclassical. You're supposed to build it as you're playing. And that particular recording, the bang on a can recording, I think is the finest version of N N C I've ever seen.
Peter (50:01.523)
Uh-huh.
Peter (50:12.466)
Okay. albums front to back or playlists?
eden (50:17.792)
Albums albums. That's one of the that's one of my biggest complaints about getting into K pop is so often it's singles and I'm like, No, put out a whole album, please.
Peter (50:19.825)
Agree.
Peter (50:27.026)
Yeah. I'll throw on playlists at work when I'm coming in and out of my office throughout the course of a day, mostly just so that I have, you know, it's I've got eight hours worth of music playing. But even then my playlists are made up of whole albums.
eden (50:32.62)
Sure.
eden (50:42.902)
Yeah, I I do have the only time that I really use a playlist is I have a playlist called K pop Brain Rot and it is every single K pop song that I have. So it's like sixteen hours long, seventeen hours long. And sometimes you just hit open it up in his shuffle.
Peter (51:02.95)
There you go. All right. Let's do a little bit of book stuff. Do audiobooks count as reading?
eden (51:09.324)
You know? That's a good question. Go listen to that episode. I can't remember what episode I talked about it with someone on Devotees about.
I don't know.
What do you think?
Peter (51:25.146)
I lean towards yes, but I recognize that they're different.
eden (51:29.346)
Yeah, that's kinda how I feel about it. Like 'cause the problem is is there's contradictory research. Cause they've done you they've done academic research on this, and some of the studies seem to say it's fundamentally different than listening to a radio program or things like that, because it's engaging the same parts of your brain that reading engages, like when they do like like brain scans. But then there's other research that's like, no it doesn't. No, it doesn't.
And so the problem is both of these have fairly small sample sizes. So you would need to do a much larger study. and I don't think anyone cares enough to want to pay for that study. so we don't have a good answer for that because some researchers say it absolutely is reading because it's engaging all of the same parts of your brain as reading you know, text does. and then there are you know, other researchers who say no, it doesn't. It does the same thing that radio programs do or that like audio dramas do.
And it's not bad. It's not it's not not engaging with the work. I do think it's very important to get that out there. And I think that you would agree with me. It's not not engaging. You are absolutely as engaged in the work as if you were reading it. but is it reading?
Peter (52:39.056)
Yeah, for example for for example, for me, listening to a podcast is a very different activity than listening to an audiobook.
eden (52:48.782)
Agreed. I have to pay a lot more attention to a book. A podcast floats over me a lot more than when I'm listening to a book. And you know, the other joke that in that episode of Devotees where I talked about it with a friend, it was like, well, so is Braille not reading? Or is Braille the only kind of reading? That was what my friend jokingly said. They were like, no, reading reading with your eyes at all, that's not reading. You have to read with your fingers. That's the only actual kind of reading.
Peter (53:08.998)
Ha ha.
eden (53:16.162)
And I was like, that really does show the absurdity of trying to define these things. So I don't know. I don't know.
Peter (53:20.124)
True. Okay. I think that's totally fair. So another one, e readers versus physical book.
eden (53:26.862)
I like both for different reasons.
Peter (53:29.008)
Yeah. Sometimes I like a physical book, but the simple truth of the matter is I don't have the space to own all the books I want to
eden (53:38.808)
I mean, that's a big part of it for me. and I think at at this point in my life, I have chosen physical comics e-texts for prose, basically, is how it's broken down. Like there are some exceptions to that. But, you know, in terms of purchasing physical books over the past year, I would say it's probably 90-95% comics and five to ten percent prose, simply because
Peter (53:50.789)
Okay.
eden (54:07.97)
The form factor is different and doesn't matter as much when it comes to reading prose. Like I can, again, I can open my e-reader, I can change the font size, I can change what font it uses, if there are certain fonts that make it easier for me to read. All these sorts of things don't take away or really change my relationship with the story being told in the text. But I hate reading a comic on a screen. I like to read a comic on paper.
Peter (54:32.242)
Okay. Sure.
eden (54:34.288)
and that's just that's just true of me. I prefer reading a comic on paper. and so that is where I that's where I kinda draw the line. If it's prose, I'm gonna read it in an e book. If it's a comic, I need to read it on paper. How about you? Just really just too many too many books.
Peter (54:46.738)
Okay. yeah, it's like there are sometimes I still really like to have a physical book, but most of the time the convenience of the e-reader, honestly, the fact that it is lighter to hold, that it is more portable, that it I can read it in whatever kind of light, because if it's bright, great, e-reader's great. If it's dark, since almost all of them now are side lit, great, I can still read it. So
eden (55:00.984)
Yeah. Yeah.
Peter (55:13.722)
As much as I love physical books and sometimes I definitely still want the physical book, I probably would say, no, nine times out of ten, I would rather have the ebook.
eden (55:25.176)
Yeah.
Peter (55:26.246)
So we're getting a little long, so let's do a few more. Let's do some games and then we're gonna wrap it up. Favorite game of all time? One answer.
eden (55:32.184)
Sounds good.
eden (55:35.618)
Favorite game of all time?
Peter (55:38.471)
Yep. Yeah, I'll tell you mine while you're thinking. For me, we all know it's Mass Effect Two. And and because I'm making myself pick one game, that's why I'm going with two. I think the gameplay, I think one is a more interesting game and a more interesting story, but the gameplay, they tightened it up so much into that to go back and play one is a little bit of a chore, two is a lot of fun. And I really do like all of the
eden (55:45.016)
Yeah, I knew it was Mass Effect too.
Yeah.
Peter (56:07.622)
You know, I I I really enjoy the r assembling the crew and doing all their loyalty missions and getting to know them and stuff. So for me, Mass Effect two.
eden (56:16.183)
Greatest of all time.
Peter (56:17.936)
No favorite. I didn't want to go greatest. I'm going favorite because greatest is again, there's i greatest is a bad word when it comes to things that are so subjective.
eden (56:19.522)
Okay.
eden (56:25.162)
It is. It is. I think my answer is still gonna be the same. I think it's Doom. I think it's Doom. Because it we've talked about it at length on this podcast before. You can play it forever. There's literally new wads coming out every single day. nothing plays the way that Doom plays. Nothing feels that fluid or that fast or that fun.
Peter (56:32.347)
Okay.
Peter (56:49.308)
Okay, very good. Favorite console generation.
eden (56:53.634)
Monsole generation. Probably whatever one the three sixty is in.
Peter (56:58.45)
Yeah, I was gonna say for it's the Xbox three sixty. That would have been Xbox three sixty. I don't know what c what number it was, but that was three sixty and PS three. So
eden (57:01.846)
I don't is that generation six?
eden (57:08.088)
360 PS3 and then s sort of the GameCube sort of the Wii, but I don't care about Nintendo stuff because I don't really play Nintendo games. The 360 is absolutely the console that I've gotten the most mileage out of because it was there were so many bangers on.
Peter (57:13.426)
Yeah.
Peter (57:16.786)
Same air.
Peter (57:23.047)
Me too.
Peter (57:27.323)
yeah. I mean Yep.
eden (57:27.726)
I played all those Mass Effect games. I played Dragon Age, Dragon Age 2. I played all them Beth I played three Bethesda games on it. No, f I played Fallout Fallout New Vegas, Fallout 3. I played Viva Pinata. Like there's so many good games on the Xbox 360. I played Sneak King.
Peter (57:48.167)
Heck yeah. Heck yeah. Goes Burger King ones. I mean, for me too. That's throwing in it was Get Together Halo Three, playing Halo Three until three o'clock in the morning with, you know, fifteen, sixteen people in a house together. it was Gears of War playing Gears of War online. again, four of us, four V four online with four of us all in the same house. And so when somebody died, we just start s cruising across the map and tell everybody else where everything was.
I I love the I love the three sixty generation. open world versus more linear story.
eden (58:26.218)
God, I think it depends. I think that they're I like an open world game, but many of them are too long. and so that is when I when I have the space in my heart for a hundred hour open world game, I'm really happy for it. I'm really happy about it. I'm very excited to play it. But sometimes I want a nice, streamlined, focused experience.
Peter (58:52.092)
Yep. I can really enjoy a big open world game, but I would say almost always I would rather have a twenty-hour linear tight story than than a hundred plus hours of an open world game. Almost every time.
eden (59:09.302)
I mean that's almost always true for me too. Like there are some open world games I have had a lot of fun with. I do like them when they are twenty to thirty hours instead of a hundred. That's great. but yeah, no, I like I I I I like a focused experience. I don't need I'm not one of those people that's like, well, I spent seventy dollars on this game. It's gotta go for an hour a hundred and fifty hours. Cause number one, I'm not spending seventy dollars on a game. I learned my lesson and
Peter (59:19.058)
Ha ha ha.
eden (59:38.7)
By spending full price on Final Fantasy sixteen, and I will not be doing that again because that game sucks ass and I spent seventy dollars on it. So I'm not buying seventy dollar games. so that first off, the ROI on that is not important to me. and more importantly, the old, you know, the joke meme of Sonic the Hedgehog saying, I want shorter games with worse graphics made by people who get paid more and I'm not kidding is true of me. It's just true.
Peter (59:45.554)
That's rough.
Peter (01:00:06.95)
Yeah. Okay. Okay, I think here we go. This is our final hot take.
eden (01:00:13.986)
Okay.
Peter (01:00:15.652)
Name a game franchise, video game franchise that peaked early and never recovered.
eden (01:00:26.702)
Peaked early and never recovered.
Peter (01:00:29.542)
I'll tell you mine because again, I had the I had the unfair advantage of I I saw all of these because I made them. Cause I made the list. So here's mine. Age of Empires. Age of Empires 2. The best. Three, four, five. Three, four, five. It's just they're still decent. yeah. yeah. And they've made them more complex and there's all this hub city and all this kind of stuff. And none of them.
eden (01:00:36.878)
'Cause you made the list.
eden (01:00:44.886)
That's so good. They've made a fifth Age of Empires? What?
Peter (01:00:57.196)
None of them even come close to the joy of playing Age of Empires II.
eden (01:00:59.277)
No.
eden (01:01:03.03)
Okay, I have two answers. One's kind of a shit post answer, but it's true anyway. My non-shit post answer is Dragon Age 2 is the best of the Dragon Age games. Sorry, Inquisition, and especially sorry Veilguard. Dragon Age 2 is the best one. so does that count as peeking early if it's the second game and not the first one? I don't know, but I'm going with it. My shit post answer, however, is
Peter (01:01:07.356)
Too
Peter (01:01:10.641)
I love it.
eden (01:01:28.714)
Alpha Centauri is better than every other Civilization game and it came out in between Civilizations two and three. That's the best Civilization game, Alpha Centauri.
Peter (01:01:36.026)
One hundred percent.
Peter (01:01:39.741)
Yep. Yep. And and I need to I need to recant. I for some reason because they've been cranking out so many just barfid expansions for the different age of empires. There is only four. It's just there's so much bullshit that has come out that it felt like there was a fifth game. So clarifying. Clarifying. No, I agree. Alpha Centauri. I here's the thing. I picked up a used copy of Alpha Centauri back when you could buy used video games on CDs.
eden (01:01:57.154)
Yeah, that's fair.
Peter (01:02:08.418)
It had the whole big manual. I played the shit out of that game and thought to myself, wow, this is so great. I'm gonna get into civilization. I'm gonna be a civilization sicko. And I as being the sucker I am, I bought Civ Three, and then I bought Civ Four, and I bought Civ Five, and I bought Civ Six, and I bought
eden (01:02:08.479)
huh.
eden (01:02:28.81)
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yup.
Peter (01:02:37.884)
Seven?
eden (01:02:38.754)
You bought sif seven okay, now I was g I was with ya till then, but after five and six were so bad you shouldn't have bought seven.
Peter (01:02:46.414)
I I told you, I'm a sucker. I'm a chump. And and none It's true. And not a single one of these games holds a candle to Alpha Centaur.
eden (01:02:48.812)
Yeah. Disposable income's a motherfucker, you know?
eden (01:02:57.036)
No, Alpha Centari is better than all of them put together. and then they tried to do it again with Civilization Beyond Earth and it does not have the juice. It is not It has not got the juice. It's worse than a Civilization game.
Peter (01:03:00.388)
It is. It's true.
Peter (01:03:05.804)
No, no, no.
Yep. So
eden (01:03:12.248)
What a disappointment.
Peter (01:03:13.97)
Okay, well, those were some hot takes. We'll wrap it up here because we've we've hit an out. We we made it. We did the thing. So we'll be back in again. A proper episode's probably gonna be four weeks because you know, I'm gonna be in England. I may drop something, I may not. We'll see. Either way, okay. Anyway, we'll be back at for sure with a a legitimate real episode in four weeks. And again, I may try and drop something real short.
eden (01:03:17.048)
We made it.
eden (01:03:30.584)
Pip pip cheerio.
Peter (01:03:42.204)
We'll just see how my time in England goes, 'cause I really don't know what it's gonna be like. But until then, talk to everybody later. Thanks for listening. Bye.
eden (01:03:46.638)
We'll see.
eden (01:03:51.534)
Bye folks.