Silver Branch, Freigeist, and More!

Welcome back to another deliciously engaging episode of The DC Beer Show! Join your hosts Jacob Berg and Brandy Holder as they dive deep into the world of craft beer, joined by an all-star lineup of guests: Sebastian Sauer, Brett Robison, Christian Layke, and Chris Bonnell!

Today's episode kicks off with a quick rundown of Oktoberfest events. Then Jake and Brandy sit down with the guys from Silver Branch Brewing Company to talk about their evolution into a hospitality brand specializing in beer and pizza. Silver Branch is raising money to open a new location in Rockville, which will allow them to expand their wholesale operation and do more and bigger events in Silver Spring. Read all about it at DCBeer.com. You can help fund it at https://invest.honeycombcredit.com/campaigns/silver-branch-brewing-company.

Then Jake talks to the founder of Freigeist Bierkultur, Sebastian Sauer, for a fascinating look into the beers he's helping to deliver to Snallygaster from Franconia in northern Bavaria.

Cheers to great beers and even better conversations!

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Creators & Guests

Host

Brandy Holder

This southern girl got a late start in the beer world, but with such a bold and intoxicating personality behind the name, booze was destined to be a part of her endeavors.

Host

Jacob Berg

Jake’s beer education began when his dad brought home a 6-pack of Brooklyn Lager in the mid-90s. It was love at first sip.

Producer

Richard Fawal

President of DC Beer Media LLC and Publisher of DCBeer.com and The DC Beer Show

What is The DC Beer Show?

The official podcast of DCBeer.com! This is a show about breweries: the business, the beer, the craftspeople who run them and the drinkers who love them. Join us as we speak with brewers, brewery owners, and all kinds of folks involved in the craft beer scene.

Jacob Berg [00:00:05]:
Welcome everyone to the DC Beer Show, and it's Oktoberfest season. We are @DCBeer across social media. Brandy, are you drinking on this lovely fall evening?

Brandy Holder [00:00:16]:
Oh, Jake, I am having a Human Robot dry hop Czech style lager, so it's pretty good. Thanks to our dear friend, Bree, over at Right Proper for hauling down some Human Robot for for Matt and I. So thank you, Brie. Love you. Speaking of Right Proper, Right Proper did a collab with the Heurich House or Heurich House for the their Maerzen beer and Lost Lagers as well. So if you are out and about, you should go support that delicious beer. I that Maerzen is really good, Jake. Have you had it?

Jacob Berg [00:00:55]:
Yes. I have indeed had it. And by the way, Right Proper Brookland, now open 7 days a week, including Thursdays, all night happy hour. So

Brandy Holder [00:01:04]:
That's awesome. Jake, what are you drinking?

Jacob Berg [00:01:06]:
So I've got here not a Czech lager, but a German style lager. It is Franklin's Oktoberfest Festbier from Jeff Hancock, formerly of DC Brau. It's kind of like too dark to be a Festbier and too light to be a Maerzen, but it's phenomenal. It's one of the best examples I've had this style anywhere. I took a sip. I said, wow. And then I immediately went and filled up a growler, which is something that I haven't done in a long, long time. Growlers. It feels like another century, but, this one's worth it. Please, I implore you, make a trip to Hyattsville. Eat a giant pretzel at Franklin's. Have a bunch of sausage. Drink this beer. It's really, really good. Just like an exceptional, like, kind of like hybrid of an Oktoberfest and Fest beer. Really well done.

Brandy Holder [00:01:58]:
I can't wait to try it. Thanks, Jake. I have a actually, haven't been over to Franklin's in a while. As Jake mentioned previously, it is Oktoberfest season, and I kicked off, Oktoberfest season at Wheatland Spring this past weekend. And if you haven't been till Wheatland Spring's Oktoberfest, it is it is a sight to see. It's not only breathtakingly gorgeous there, but the beers, when you have them fresh at the farm, it it's just unrivaled. It was a beautiful crowd, and it really just got the mood pumped up. So I'm here for all the Oktoberfest this the upcoming month and a half, starting with with Other Half's, which is tomorrow, Saturday. And, I will definitely be there. I will attend the Stein holding contest, but I'm sure I will fail. Thanks, rotator cuff injury. But I'm here for all the beer for sure. And then on 25th, the Women's Brew Culture Club is going to be back at Other Half. It's a very Other Half heavy month for us again, but Jordan will be doing trivia that night as well. So it's a 2fer. It's a double hitter. So we hope to see everybody on on, September 25th. Jake, what's going on? And there's so many things going on.

Jacob Berg [00:03:16]:
Yeah. There are so many other Oktoberfest. There's also, Port City's Wönderfest is also this weekend, and so there'll be a whole bunch of German style lagers there. They'll also still have their collab with Stone Richmond and Soul Mega. It's an IPA, and it's got Thai basil adding some of these anis fennel licoricey notes and lemon peel. So an adjunct IPA, not something you normally see from Port City, not something you normally see from Stone or Soul Mega for that matter, but, like, a cool collab. They're gonna be taking this on the road. They did a party at Church Key last week. There'll be other parties coming up. Watch dcbeer.com/events. Watch their socials. We also don't normally direct you towards other sites, but Fritz Hahn at the Washington Post has this great write up of the area Oktoberfests. It's worth taking a look at if you just Google Fritz Hahn, h a h n. Oktoberfest Washington Post, you'll see a whole bunch of that stuff coming up.

Brandy Holder [00:04:20]:
I actually had one of those Port City Soul Mega stone beers right before I opened this Human Robot. It was it was interesting but good. Like, it I I can't I couldn't put my finger on it, but it was it gives nothing that I've had from Port City for sure before. But definitely go check it out for yourself. It's exciting to have such a interesting collab. So it's kind of a first, I think, for the DMV. Yeah.

Jacob Berg [00:04:47]:
You drink it, and you're like, this is an IPA, I guess, but and it's just like this weird, it's still very citrus y, but there's also this kind of, like, herbal savory twist to it. But it all plays really well, even if you're not into, like, absinthe or perno or licorice jelly beans. It does not taste like that.

Brandy Holder [00:05:07]:
I wanna know where the brown ales are, Jake. Do you know anybody who's making any brown ales for your girl, Brandy?

Jacob Berg [00:05:13]:
Why, yes. I do know of at least 1 brewery, local brewery, who is making a brown ale. And in fact, I think you'll be seeing it at beer fest very, very soon. Let's take it away with guest number 1. Welcome. We're here with Brett Robison and Christian Layke, cofounders of Silver Branch, as well as their art director and, media person, man about town, Chris Bonnell. We have 2 big pieces of news here, but I thought we'd do the first because it's most relevant to Brandy. What do you all bring this in Snallygaster? We are going to

Brett Robison [00:05:51]:
be bringing our brand new brown ale called Fletcher's Finest. And what else are we bringing, Chris?

Chris Bonnell [00:05:58]:
Oh, our, GABF silver medal winning Oktoberfest.

Brandy Holder [00:06:03]:
Is that why you said it's for Brandy? Hashtag brown ale

Jacob Berg [00:06:08]:
Brandy. Yes.

Brett Robison [00:06:09]:
And the Brown Ale, moreover, is gonna be being served out of cask. Oh. Going full on traditional

Jacob Berg [00:06:16]:
here. That's excellent. So no doubt you're gonna see us at your table for both of those. Although you may see some of us tonight because this episode airs on Friday for the 6:45 Stein line. The second big piece of news is the potential for Silver Branch Rockville Beer Works. Congratulations. Wondering if you can just tell us a little bit about the challenges that you've faced brewing in a confined space with now room for physical growth in Silver Spring.

Brett Robison [00:06:48]:
Well, the story of having to, shift for COVID is an old one. But for us, that shift entailed growing our wholesale much, much more rapidly than we dreamed we would. When we started Silver Branch, we always knew we wanted to be in a distribution brewery. That's why we, you know, took a 10,000 square foot space instead of a smaller one. And we intended to, continue brewing there for, years and to grow the wholesale into a place where it would make sense to move to another brewery. But when, COVID hit, we grew, grew, grew, honey where we possibly could, and at that point in time, it was in wholesale. And so, we we got to the point where we were, nearly 3,000 barrels in production. And then when the, you know, the taproom was able to be back open, people started coming out in greater numbers again. All of the space that we have been using, in the taproom to store empty kegs, to store pallets of beer that were waiting to go out, etcetera, etcetera, were no longer available. And so since then, it has been a constant juggling act to figure out how to, accommodate both brewing at the scale that we are brewing at, for wholesale and to accommodate all of the guests, including private events that we do. And so I think as you know from previous conversations we've had, we actually have made 2 attempts to expand our brewing, in the past. And, now this is, this is the the next time, that we're making such an attempt, and we're super excited.

Christian Layke [00:08:25]:
3rd time's a charm.

Brett Robison [00:08:26]:
That's right.

Jacob Berg [00:08:28]:
So you all have noticed now that you've been in Silver Spring for 5 or 6 years, including the build out. How has the downtown area changed, and where do you see both events and expanded food fitting into that?

Christian Layke [00:08:45]:
So downtown is especially right where we're situated. It's kind of interesting. I know that the Purple Line is a long held myth that nobody has believed is actually gonna come to fruition. But if you're sitting in the beer garden, you can physically see the walking trail or the bike trail that they're creating, and you can also see a lot of the construction work. So this summer, we actually the metro was shut down going on a portion of the red line to do some pretty extensive work on building out, the Purple Line. So that, obviously, you know, going right through the center of Colesville, is is changing some of the appearance of everything. But, you know, on the other side of this, connecting College Park to Silver Spring and then ultimately to Bethesda, I think, is a really exciting change that we welcome, you know, once that construction's done. But it looks it's it's real. They are actually building the Purple Line now.

Jacob Berg [00:09:40]:
Christian, you've got experience brewing in Rockville already. When it came time to look for another brewery location, where else did you look besides Rockville?

Brett Robison [00:09:53]:
There's nowhere we did not look in the DMV area. We have been turning over stones everywhere we could possibly find a stone in the hopes of finding the magic location where, it would make sense to take our, our production level brewing. As you know, we have a brewery in in Warrenton that's great for smaller amounts of beer, but it's never going to address any needs in terms of of wholesale level production. And so, you know, the the things we've looked at in the past have always been more industrial style places that would be able to, you know, handle semi trailer trucks loading up, beer and from a from a loading dock and things like that. So, yeah, we've looked in Virginia. We've looked in DC. We've actually looked in Baltimore. And it's, amazing how many reasons that, a place can seem to be perfect, except for in one fatal flaw way. And so, in each case, we've just been disappointed again and again. And And and not too long ago, we we kinda gave up on Virginia because, it was just gonna be impossible for any of our existing brewing team to to work in Virginia, and that was something that we weren't willing to, you know, to do is to, you know, sort of disrupt, that that team and and their ability to work together so well. So we we really started looking only in Maryland, and, we're feeling really fortunate to have, found a spot that we're excited about.

Brandy Holder [00:11:21]:
I'd like to talk to Chris because now that you have 2 locations and you're gonna be opening another location, from an artistic standpoint, is the new location going to maybe have a different, slightly different look as far as can art goes, taproom, ambiance, and look, just so you can differentiate but still keep the same kind of Silver Branch style?

Chris Bonnell [00:11:51]:
Well, we've always, had as as a core of our brand, the the international brewing culture. So Central Europe, British Isles, America, and, Belgium. And I think with multiple tap rooms, we're going to try to move each of them actually into those spaces in one way or another. So more like the the Lager House and beer garden, we're sort of insinuating that it's, you know, Munich or, even a, you know, Czech style kind of beer garden taproom. We're we might lean more into the Belgian style in, in Warrenton more as we develop that space. And then the the beer works is where we tap into, Americas. So I think we're really into the the beer cities, not just nations, but but where the the origin of certain styles come from. So we've been kind of talking about, you know, major American beer cities. We do we have some exciting, you know, like brand refreshes and then whole new lines of things, coming up. And this is a a really great opportunity for us because not only are we able to increase, capacity for wholesale for for certain lines of beer, certain brands, we we have the opportunity to make new brands and actually maybe even new brand lines. So as an artist and a promoter, I'm I'm thrilled for for what we have ahead. It's gonna be really exciting.

Sebastian Sauer [00:13:14]:
Awesome.

Jacob Berg [00:13:15]:
So you all are about to be making, I guess, really, it's probably gonna be 2 or 3 years down the road, a lot more beer. Do you have plans to expand beyond beer as well? Hard seltzers, something perhaps getting a distiller's license, something ready to drink, ready to drink cock canned cocktails, things things of that nature as you embark on this Rockville, a more production focused brewery.

Brandy Holder [00:13:44]:
Get it? Embark? I'm just kidding. Shout out to Jake's dog.

Christian Layke [00:13:51]:
Christian, do you wanna take this one, or do you want me to?

Brett Robison [00:13:53]:
I think this is has you written all over it?

Christian Layke [00:13:58]:
Yeah. So what's interesting about the Silver Branch brand in general is that we do you know, we we pay homage to so much tradition about where these beers come from and, you know, the the purpose and the place and the glassware that it's served in. So it's kind of hard to do a hard seltzer, with the same reverence or respect. There's no meaningful history behind it. So that's not to say that we don't have some early ideas in the hopper. The one category that we'd really like to dip our toes into that would be imminently more possible with the development of a Rockville location would actually be Radlers. So I think that would be a better natural fit for us to get into a flavor forward space. And I think one thing that could be compelling about doing, for example, a grapefruit radler or a lemon radler is that it would be good for marketing to maybe a younger generation, early twenties, where you can put the flavor of the fruit forward as a big component of what that's going to be, but still staying close to the Silver Branch beer brand as it stands.

Jacob Berg [00:15:16]:
Let's get into pizza. I mean, beer and pizza is a natural pairing. So there's certainly an affinity there.

Brandy Holder [00:15:25]:
It seems like the the trend now, because you've got Sojourn, you have Crooked Run, Crooked Crab. It seems like when you open a brewery now, you know, they there needs to be food available, because there are people not drinking alcohol or, you know, creating more of a family space, instead of just, you know, drinking 21 and up. And it just seems like pizza is the go to. What makes your pizza gonna be so special at Silver Branch?

Brett Robison [00:15:54]:
Well, I think, just backing up into something else that you said as part of this question, the idea that food is, kind of a requirement for a brewery these days, and I think that's absolutely true. You know, we have actually gone so far as to say that we think of ourselves as a hospitality company that has a beer a brewery brand as well, because what we really are is in the business of of giving people an amazing experience. Whether or not they crack a beer at home and enjoy it or whether they come to our tap rooms and experience our beautiful glassware and the ambiance of our of our tap rooms. It's all about, you know, creating this idea of community for people. And, especially when you see all of the hand wringing articles that you see these days about how preferences are changing among younger people and the, you know, beer sales are going down and things like that. Well, what isn't going out of style most certainly is the idea of going out with friends and having an amazing time. And so I think that that's part of the reason why you're seeing so many breweries begin to offer not just, you know, some small amount of of something that you can eat, but actually good quality, food of one sort or another. In terms of why it's pizza, I think, you know, as Jake said at the beginning of his question, because pizza is actually just one of these food that goes magically well with with beer. And so I think you you do see that as being something that people gravitate to. And luckily, you know, if you go around to different cities in the United States, you and not just United States but around the world, you can see that pizza, is done very differently in different locations. So, yeah, we we started, our pizza program in Warrenton a year ago when we opened there, and we have 2 very, experienced and talented chefs. And they've put together a whole range of amazing pizzas, that that we're all incredibly, fond of and and proud of on their behalf.

Chris Bonnell [00:17:48]:
One thing I would like to say just for context for some people, if you if you're not familiar, we are currently, have pizza available in Warrenton, Warrenton Station. It's delicious. And, one thing I think that does set us apart is we have a secret weapon down there in Devon and, and Brian and the and the team. They're absolutely amazing. And, that that quality, similar to the quality of our beer, the food is is stellar. So that's I think that will be part of what set sets us apart.

Christian Layke [00:18:15]:
I did wanna add on to this, though, because I would say there's actually even though it hasn't fully formed yet, we do have some plans that will make this distinct. I think the way that we're going to approach branding this is different, maybe, than how, some other people have done it because it's all within the same entity. So it's the same people behind Soulbranch Brewing Company building a new brand concept called Mosaic Pizza. And with that, we're gonna do some fun stuff. I don't wanna reveal it. You'll have to find out when we get there. But we're gonna do some fun stuff with the pizza boxes, and it might almost look like a brewery that makes a bunch of different beer labels will also be building a pizza company. So when it's all said and done, I think you're gonna see it and be like, okay. This is pizza is a a, you know, been around forever, but the way that we're gonna do it is gonna come across as distinctively Silverbranch.

Brandy Holder [00:19:19]:
We, as the public and everyone else because I'm sure folks popped up it popped up on their Facebook feed and Instagram feed, and I know Jake got an article out today. I know that there is a lot of funding that goes into this. How you guys wanna tell us about that and how we, as the public, can help?

Brett Robison [00:19:40]:
We do. We we really wanna tell you about that because we just launched, our crowdfunding equity campaign today through Honeycomb. And, in the past, when we have sought equity, we have, always had a relatively low minimum for the world of equity raise, but it was always, you know, between 14 $15,000, which is a lot more than, you know, a casual, fan might be in interested in investing. So this time when it was, looked like we wanted to go ahead and and and raise money for this next growth phase, to open the brewery in Rockville and to launch Mosaic Pizza and to do some other, amazing, things that we have planned, We wanted to find a way that some of our long standing fans could be involved. When we opened, you know, about five and a half years ago, we had, prior to that, had our founders club. And the experience of launching that and seeing the response from the community, of beer lovers and casual beer lovers who were just a part of the community and excited to have a brewery in the community, was just so overwhelmingly positive. We kinda wanted to go back and recapture that amazing feel of having the people who are gonna end up drinking our beer or already do drink our beer be involved in the campaign of actually raising the equity we need to make this a reality.

Jacob Berg [00:21:02]:
Excellent. Thanks so much. Folks, please do Czech out Silver Branch on the site Honeycomb. We'll drop the link in the show notes. It's also already up on dcbeer.com. Brett, Christian, Chris, thank you all so much for being with us. Please visit Silver Branch at Snallygaster and even before their Oktoberfest is coming up this very weekend. That's both in Silver Spring and in Warrenton if you're further afield. Alright. Thanks, everybody. Appreciate it.

Brandy Holder [00:21:30]:
See you at Snally, guys.

Jacob Berg [00:21:31]:
Thank you. Thank you very much to the Silver Branch team, to Brett, to Christian, to Chris. Big things happening there. It's always nice when we see a brewery growing and expanding, meeting the demand. Of course, that brown ale is gonna be at Snallygaster, and so we thought it's Oktoberfest. Snallygaster's coming up. What better way to combine those 2 than to talk to a second guest? And so we've got Sebastian Sauer of Freigeist, who you last saw here in DC doing unlimited and full Kölsch service at The Roost at Shelter. Sebastian, can you introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about Freigeist?

Sebastian Sauer [00:22:12]:
Yes. For sure. Thanks so much for having me on the podcast, Jake. Yeah. My name is Sebastian Sauer. I started Freigeist Bierkultur back in 2009. It's one of the very first craft beer projects from Germany. I was going around visiting other countries before, got very fascinated with the whole craft beer movement. And that's when I started my own project. A lot of them specifically in the beginning was reviving historical beer styles from German, origin.

Jacob Berg [00:22:43]:
One of the things that you're doing is you're going to be coming to Snallygaster in October here in DC. What are you planning on pouring at Snallygaster in terms of your beer?

Sebastian Sauer [00:22:57]:
Yes. That's a exciting situation. I was invited last year already, but I couldn't come in person, so there was a volunteer serving my beers. But for this year, I will, serve my Otterkolong, which is my classic go to Kölsch. It's an unsheltered, Kölsch variety. And then I will have my very first beer I've ever brewed, the Abraxas, which is a, historical Liechtenhiner, which is a sour smoky beer style, which died out just after the First World War.

Jacob Berg [00:23:27]:
It's excellent that we'll see a Lichtenhanger there because Greg Engert, was just talking about some of the more unusual beer styles, but you're also sort of helping Snallygaster and Greg and Tim and Bruno acquire German beers for the festival. Yes?

Sebastian Sauer [00:23:46]:
Yes. Indeed. There's a lot of wonderful, breweries in the Franconian area, which is the northern part of the state of Bavaria. Always need to make sure that you don't call them Bavarian because that's really what they don't want to be called. And, there's, like, the biggest density of, breweries per in this area. A lot of countryside, breweries with, like, a wonderful lager selection, obviously, also including Bamberg smoked beer, the Rauch beer. And, yeah, there's, like, a lot of very small historical breweries which, have wonderful beers and which you can usually don't have access to. But for these guys, I was, able to, organize something.

Jacob Berg [00:24:32]:
So what are the logistics like in terms of getting these beers from Franconia to DC?

Sebastian Sauer [00:24:40]:
In this situation, we have to make sure that we use one way kegs because typically they only use steel kegs for packaging their beers, and they're not very up for, doing too much paperwork and so on because there's this, like, small family run places. So there's only a few breweries which would be up for using even the plastic kegs because that's kind of like an unusual way for them packaging. They don't really have too much experience with it. And so we were able to arrange that. And, yeah.

Jacob Berg [00:25:16]:
So, Sebastian, you mentioned one way kegs. Are there other formats that some of the Franconian breweries are bringing? Think back to previous Snallagasters when there were a couple gravity kegs, and it was sort of the norm that there were at least be a few of those at Snallygaster. Are any of the breweries gonna be able to package and transport beer that way to the festival?

Sebastian Sauer [00:25:42]:
Yes. We will have, 3 breweries with gravity kegs as well. Those are the ones which are not coming back. They will be afterwards used by, Bluejacket Brewing, and, so they can package their own beer with it. So, but the other kegs, they're typically they always have to come back to the brewery and in a rather short time. And, obviously, we can't really do that Properly. It's also way too expensive to send kegs back and forth. This is why we use the, a patina, the one way kegs for, most of the beer. Then we have a few, gravity kegs, which will be like real normal small kegs, 50 liter kegs.

Jacob Berg [00:26:21]:
And to our listening audience, I would say, get those while they last, especially earlier in the day, when they're at temperature and such. We don't know the weather yet. If it stays cloudy in 60, the beer will be great all day, but it could be sunny in 85. In which case, if you're a VIP, you probably want some of those within the first couple hours or so. Are you concerned at all about the gravity kegs in transit?

Sebastian Sauer [00:26:47]:
Not too much because, I mean, there's, like, the the the range of breweries. There's some wonderful breweries which I would always visit myself when I go there, but they are not very stable, from the shipping conditions. So we pick the ones which I have the most trust in any way, which are still, you know, no, no, issue with the quality of the beers. They are still wonderful breweries as well, but, I hope that they survive pretty well with the transport. And, that's why it's shipped with cooling, you know, so that, they they should be still quite quite good because we also serve them within their timing in in Europe as well. And, in Europe, the whole refrigerating, refrigerating trade is not as big as in, America. So a lot of places don't have necessarily the cooling equipment like in in the US.

Jacob Berg [00:27:43]:
So, Sebastian, do you have plans to brew in DC when you're here for Snellagaster this year?

Sebastian Sauer [00:27:50]:
Not in DC. I will brew with Human Robot in Philly. That's the plan. And then I will brew also with some places a little bit more south of the East Coast. Bold Monk is one of them in Atlanta, and, so that should be good.

Jacob Berg [00:28:04]:
I think that we'll see Human Robot and a couple of the Atlanta breweries, Good Word and Halfway Crooks at Stalingaster as well. So the weather is going to turn cooler here soon, and we certainly see cans of the Freitas Dortmunder export and the Kölsch. Mhmm. Do you have plans to bring in the, Eisbach? I believe it's, Guten Nacht Marie back to the States.

Sebastian Sauer [00:28:35]:
There is still some left because it's such a specialized type of beer, which you make. It's always interesting because of the US. Typically, it's not legal to make it for most breweries, except they have a distilling, license. For us, it's very, yeah, normal to if if you have the equipment, but nearly nobody has it. But there's some of that beer still in the US, so we wouldn't brew it again, but, yeah, you could still find it somewhere.

Jacob Berg [00:29:05]:
We'll be chcking out Glover Park's hop casket and barrel for that. Commonwealth, which brews in Virginia Beach, does have a distillers license, and so that allows them to freeze beer, removing the water, keeping the alcohol, and making an ice pack. And so they do one, but it is pretty unusual to find here in the States, not just because you need the distiller's permit.

Sebastian Sauer [00:29:32]:
Yes. That's just like it's also very, expensive to produce generally, obvious for obvious reasons. And, the interest in Europe is not the biggest. Typically, you have, the oni styles which are used for the the ice blocking is, weizenbock and the doppelbock. And there's not much variety around it, but we actually, you know, use a lot of different styles as a base for it. We have made a different, amount of, smoked, beers as a for the icebox, which are turning out wonderful. And, everything from, like, a mango grocer to barley wine to imperial stuff. So it's, for us it's very fascinating, but obviously, the trend is going to more easy, crushable, sessionable beers rather than these, strong boozy beers, which were a bit more popular a few years ago.

Jacob Berg [00:30:28]:
It's interesting that you mentioned a mango gossa. To me, as someone tangentially involved in beer in the United States, when I look at Bavaria, I think of these Franconian lagers. I think of Bamberg and their smoked beers. Are you seeing a bit more of the US influence there? Are some of these breweries making an IPA, a cold IPA, a hoppy lager, Gosa with, nontraditional ingredients, say, without, Woodruff or raspberry syrup in a Berliner Weiss, things of that nature.

Sebastian Sauer [00:31:01]:
It used to be a little bit more popular in the meantime, but I would say that the whole craft movement goes down a lot. I would say nearly everywhere, at least speaking for Europe, but in Germany specifically. So craft beer never really got to the point that it became a bit more mainstream or so on. There was some interest in it, but, it definitely is is the niche of the niche.

Jacob Berg [00:31:28]:
So we talked a little bit about the market for beers in Germany. How are the Kölsch and the Dortmander selling in the US? I mean, you've now been coming to the US probably for about off and on 10 years now. Have you seen that market change?

Sebastian Sauer [00:31:46]:
I mean, it's a different different production in this way. I mean, we always used to, brew the beers in Germany and send them to the US. And since about 6 or 7 years, I changed, that I started to produce the beers directly in the US so that they would be, fresh and, in the more favorable container and, also better pricing at the same time, for the consumer. And, so it has changed quite a lot. I think the peak of imports was about depending on the brewery, obviously, but I would say for most of the imported breweries, it was about 2014, 2015. And afterwards, the whole import, game went down for all the breweries from outside of the US. This is why we also changed to to have a production in the US. And, then the the the the kirsch was always very popular as an imported beer, and then afterwards also as the domestic produced, beer. But the general the the Korsch was still, okay, but the lager subject got way more interested, or the the the American consumer got way more interested in lager beers.

Jacob Berg [00:33:03]:
And we'll note that all of those styles and more will be on display at Snellagaster. We will see you there, and we will cheers with Gravity Lager. Thank you so much again, Sebastian, for coming on the show and for your work in bringing beer over. Much appreciated.

Sebastian Sauer [00:33:20]:
Thanks so much for your time and, for your interest. Hope to see you, obviously, very soon at Snallygaster, but, obviously, hopefully, also seeing and sharing with, all the listeners as well. Thanks so much.

Jacob Berg [00:33:35]:
Thank you so much, Sebastian. Tickets still available. By the way, if you like DC beer and you enjoy this sort of stuff, dcbeer.com/patreon. We depend on the support of listeners and viewers like you. Alright, everyone. Go forth. Enjoy the Oktoberfest season. Drink something pumpkin if you want to. You're allowed now. You're at DC beer. Be well.

Brandy Holder [00:34:02]:
See you guys at Snally and at all the Oktoberfests. Cheers.