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Erin Cohen, Director, Consumer Insights at Tim Hortons, discusses the back-to-basics approach she’s spearheading at Tim Hortons, how consumers’ routines changed because of the pandemic, and how foundational research informs the customer journey.
Welcome to Dig In, the podcast brought to you by the minds at Dig Insights. We're interviewing some of the most inspiring brand professionals in marketing, innovation, and insights to discover the story behind the story of their most exciting innovations.
00;00;06;23 - 00;00;19;06
Speaker 1
Hi. Welcome to Dig In the podcast brought to you by Dig Insights. Every week we interview founders, marketers and researchers from innovative brands to learn how they're approaching their role and their category in a clever way.
00;00;22;09 - 00;00;33;14
Speaker 1
Welcome back to this week's episode of Digg Em. I'm so excited to have Erin joining us. Erin is the director of Consumer Insights Its Importance. Hi, Erin. How's it going?
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Speaker 2
Good. How are you?
00;00;35;19 - 00;00;57;05
Speaker 1
Yeah, I'm good. It's nice to get a chance to reconnect with you. I know we connected last year for another another conference opportunity, but it's always great to be able to to chat to you and hear about your experience at Tim's for anyone who's not from the Canadian market, although I think Tim's is pretty widespread at this point.
00;00;57;06 - 00;01;02;21
Speaker 1
Right. I was just going to say I was just going to describe what Tim's is Do you think there's anyone who doesn't know?
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Speaker 2
I mean, I hope not.
00;01;07;23 - 00;01;13;04
Speaker 1
Are you guys basically everywhere right now? Like where where would like in the UK?
00;01;13;15 - 00;01;33;18
Speaker 2
Yeah, we're expanding globally and we have a really great presence in the U.S. now. Restaurants and cpgs, so we're definitely expanding. Even when I travel to other countries, people seem to know who Tim what Tim Hortons is, so that's good.
00;01;34;01 - 00;01;57;20
Speaker 1
I remember when I was in Glasgow once seeing a no it was in Glasgow, maybe it was Edinburgh, I can't remember somewhere in Scotland and we saw a Tim Hortons and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so exciting. It was years ago and now that's probably not as novel over there, but yes. So excited to have you with us, Erin.
00;01;58;21 - 00;02;21;11
Speaker 1
In a previous conversation we kind of chatted about what it means to be an Insight leads, an Insight led business. We're going to talk a little bit about that today. We'll also touch on how you approach insights work within your team, how you can set up an insights function from scratch and kind of how you rally internal stakeholders around a new direction.
00;02;21;11 - 00;02;26;21
Speaker 1
So to kick things off. Can you tell us a little bit about your professional experience?
00;02;28;02 - 00;03;07;05
Speaker 2
Yeah, so I've always been an insider. When I was in university, I went to Dalhousie and I took a sociology course in qualitative and quantitative research. And my professor said to me, you know, this is something you could do for a career that's really so So I after university, I interned at a research company called Northstar in the UK office, which was an amazing opportunity and kind of opened my eyes to the research world.
00;03;07;19 - 00;03;38;03
Speaker 2
And then I was at McDonald's for about 11 years and researched everything that you could possibly imagine at McDonald's After that, I went to Western Foods because I wanted to get some CPG experience. I was there for about two years, and then this amazing opportunity came up at Tim Horton's, and I realized I'm a huge QSR girl at heart.
00;03;38;03 - 00;03;41;20
Speaker 2
So I'm happy to be back in the QSR world.
00;03;42;02 - 00;03;48;09
Speaker 1
You found your niche. Yes. So what's your favorite thing about working at Tamms? How long have you been there now?
00;03;49;02 - 00;04;14;21
Speaker 2
I've been there for almost two years, I think. Obviously, it's so amazing working for such an iconic Canadian brand that plays such an important role in Canadians lives. And as soon as I tell someone that I work at Tim's, they love hearing their stories about what their favorite products are, where they're Tim's, where they grew up, and the connections that they have with team members there and things like that.
00;04;15;24 - 00;04;42;18
Speaker 2
And I think for me, since I've joined, we've had a very back to basics approach, really rebuilding our foundations, launching products like our fresh crafting breakfast sandwiches, relaunching our dog roast coffee. And it's so gratifying for me when I'm in focus groups and I'm starting to hear that consumers are noticing what we're doing with this improved quality that they're coming back to as we're rebuilding that trust.
00;04;42;18 - 00;04;45;12
Speaker 2
And so it's so exciting to be part of that.
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Speaker 1
And what kind of spurred on the back to basics approach?
00;04;51;12 - 00;05;16;19
Speaker 2
I think that after kind of hearing from consumers, we realized that that we weren't meeting their needs necessarily and they were kind of looking for the Tim Hortons that they knew and loved. And so we had an amazing leadership team come in and and really say, to be able to grow, we need to make sure that we have a solid foundation.
00;05;16;19 - 00;05;21;12
Speaker 2
And so that's what's been guiding everything that we've been doing over the past couple of years.
00;05;22;11 - 00;05;54;03
Speaker 1
Very cool. I mean, speaking about, you know, meeting customer needs or me new consumer needs, I know that those are changing so much right now given what we've all been through over the last especially within the U.S., our space over the last few years, what have you kind of noticed have been some big impacts, maybe due to the pandemic or anything that you've noticed is having a big impact on your vertical.
00;05;55;17 - 00;06;19;12
Speaker 2
So I think I mean, obviously, the pandemic had a huge impact on our business. I think routines are permanently changed, especially in urban centers. And, you know, people just aren't going to go back to the office. That five day workweek isn't going to happen. People are going back maybe part time, but they also love working at home. And I think before COVID, people were on autopilot.
00;06;19;12 - 00;06;45;18
Speaker 2
You know, they're getting on the subway or driving to work, stopping for their coffee, whatever was closest to the office. And that was it. And now we're seeing convenience is important, but it's not as important as it was. And so consumers are going to go out of their way to get what they want or they can now have it delivered at their doorstep, which means you have to have an amazing product, an amazing experience that's worthy of that.
00;06;46;19 - 00;07;06;14
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's so true. I mean, if I think about the amount of Starbucks that I used to drink just because it was like so close to the office and I just grab one and now I'm going to like my local coffee shop because I'm like, Oh, I actually prefer the taste of this coffee and I'm supporting local business.
00;07;07;15 - 00;07;28;04
Speaker 1
And I have time in the mornings to do that now. And I think like so many people, as you said, those occasions are kind of what you want from those occasions, especially breakfast is really changing. Yes. All right. So if we focus a little bit on your experience, obviously you've done a ton of working inside at some pretty big enterprise brands.
00;07;28;15 - 00;07;53;14
Speaker 1
I'm sure they had really well-established processes and budgets and in a previous conversation you'd mentioned that in a few instances you were able to actually sort of set up insights functions from scratch. What is that process of setting up a function like this from scratch? What does that look like in a big business, like something the size of Tim Hortons or McDonald's?
00;07;53;27 - 00;08;13;26
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I mean, when I first joined, it's a lot of listening. So essentially when I joined Tim's, I talked to a lot of stakeholders and there is a lot of stuff that was working that I didn't want to lose, but I also wanted to listen and learn what are those gaps in knowledge that we need to fill.
00;08;14;28 - 00;08;52;18
Speaker 2
I also what was so important for me was looking at the balance of what I call foundational research versus that tactical research. And I think before I joined, we were very heavily on that for short term tactical research, which is really it's important to have budget for that. But I wanted to make sure that we were investing in that foundational research that's going to help shape our strategy, our brand the guest experience that we're really forward thinking and is really the foundation of everything that we do in terms of innovation, communications and so on.
00;08;52;18 - 00;08;58;27
Speaker 2
And so every year as I'm setting aside my budget, I'm really looking to make sure that I have that right balance.
00;08;59;25 - 00;09;26;12
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's so interesting. And did that foundational research like we were talking about going back to basics for the business, did that process happen at the same time? So, you know, creating some more foundational research or foundational insights that you could socialize around the business? Did that happen, I guess because of this switch to back to basics or did it happen after the switch?
00;09;26;12 - 00;09;28;07
Speaker 1
I'm just wondering what that process looks like.
00;09;29;02 - 00;09;58;03
Speaker 2
I think it was both. I think that there is this true desire to be a guest led company. And so I think to do that, we really have to know our consumers their needs, their tensions, what motivates them at an emotional functional level and end those occasions. And I also think it's about defining what we stand for as a brand, but also for each of our dayparts.
00;09;58;03 - 00;10;06;22
Speaker 2
And so we want to really stand for something in the eyes of the consumer. And so having that foundational research to help guide that is so important.
00;10;09;06 - 00;10;29;27
Speaker 1
And in terms of like the breakdown, now that you've revisited the tactical or more sort of short term research versus the foundational stuff, like what's the breakdown in terms of maybe it's not effort, but maybe it's like budget, like is the tactical, you know, significantly more of your budget. Now is it is it more of the foundational side?
00;10;30;00 - 00;10;31;23
Speaker 1
Be so curious how that breaks down.
00;10;32;10 - 00;10;58;04
Speaker 2
It it really depends on the year. So let's say in 20, 21 it was probably more 40% foundational. This year we're probably closer to 50 because we're actually doing a guest journey this year that was really spearheaded by leadership by my leader Hope because she's the CMO and it was so important for her to really look at the guest experience.
00;10;58;04 - 00;11;19;17
Speaker 2
And so that's something obviously that's not an inexpensive that we really invested in this year. So it really depends on the year and the needs of the business. But I never want it to be kind of 10%, 90%, 10% foundational 90%. But it's going to change depending on the needs of the business every year.
00;11;20;14 - 00;11;37;24
Speaker 1
Yeah, that makes sense. And so when it comes to OK, so you've established his insights function. How do you make sure that it's growing up pace with the business or it's growing sort of in a scalable way? What are some measures that you put in place to make that not work?
00;11;38;07 - 00;12;02;14
Speaker 2
Yeah, so when when I first joined Tim's, I spent a lot of time building the vision for the in team. So what was so important to me is that I wanted us to be business leaders rather than a support function who just kind of delivers facts and reports. And as I said, I wanted us to support the company's vision of truly being a guest led brand.
00;12;02;14 - 00;12;24;21
Speaker 2
So I spent a lot of time evolving the research process with the ultimate goal of saying, you know, we want to create certainty for the business. So we and with that comes that we're going to launch the most relevant products possible and we're going to answer kind of all the whys of why something is happening. So then we can be even better in the future.
00;12;24;21 - 00;13;04;04
Speaker 2
And so I was really lucky to have the support of Hope, who's my boss? And she really believed in that vision. And so to support that vision, I needed head count for that and I needed budget to support it. And so I think that we've really proven ourselves over the last couple of years. So to be honest, it hasn't been a huge challenge to kind of convince the business that we need a team to support this process and we need the budget to support the type of research that we need to make sure that we have this long term growth.
00;13;05;09 - 00;13;40;26
Speaker 1
It sounds like especially I mean, I keep going back to that initial piece you mentioned around like back to basics and wanting to do foundational research. It sounds like the insights work is really being led by such a strong business plan. So I'm sure that that helps when it comes to proving the ROI or the need to grow something that's really cool, that's really cool to see OK, so Tim, specifically, how did they approach insights work in maybe like a unique ways or something that you haven't seen in other places that you've worked?
00;13;42;18 - 00;14;09;25
Speaker 2
So I think, I mean, it is unique because surprisingly not every business does this, but you had to really start with the consumer, what motivates them, what makes them tick? And then of course, what's the tension and need that we're feeling? And so when we're thinking of new innovation, that's what we're really thinking. What what is that tension or need that this new innovation should fill?
00;14;09;25 - 00;14;36;28
Speaker 2
And so actually, every company doesn't do that. So I think that that's probably pretty unique to Tim's. And then, of course, we want to make sure that so just because this tension exists doesn't mean that it's the right fit for our brand. So we're always having that lens as well to say yeah, this tension exists or this opportunity exists or this white space exists, but does it fit for us and does it make sense coming from us?
00;14;36;28 - 00;14;39;23
Speaker 2
And so that's that's the lens that we always try to have.
00;14;40;12 - 00;14;43;22
Speaker 1
How do you define if it makes sense for for you?
00;14;45;03 - 00;15;08;10
Speaker 2
So I think that we always in research were really questioning consumers with does Tim's have the right to play here? And I think that sometimes consumers are going to say no because it's so far of a stretch. So sometimes it's going to be too far of a stretch for consumers, but some but that means we have to take them on that journey.
00;15;08;10 - 00;15;39;11
Speaker 2
Right. And so we're always thinking in the long term of like what's the journey that we're going to take consumers on? And so what's what are we doing to build off each other? So, for example, we relaunched Dark Roast, which meant we it gave us permission to relaunch espresso and be credible and espresso. But had we not relaunch Dark Roast, then I think and we just keen to consumers with espresso they probably would have been like, oh, that doesn't make sense.
00;15;39;11 - 00;15;42;00
Speaker 2
So we're really thinking about the journey that we're taking them on.
00;15;43;03 - 00;16;15;12
Speaker 1
Now that that makes total sense. I'm just trying to think of any like I keep seeing the Justin Bieber collaboration. That's been really interesting. I mean, it makes it makes total sense right? He's like so Canadian through and through, very well known for being Canadian. Timms is obviously a very iconic Canadian brand. Is that something that you would have tested or is that kind of like where you you know, where you want to go as a business and you want to incorporate more sort of collaborations like that?
00;16;15;21 - 00;16;24;09
Speaker 1
So you kind of trust your instincts about where the brand should go? Do you do test things like that when you're coming up with. Yeah.
00;16;24;17 - 00;16;56;11
Speaker 2
Potential collaborations so in this case, it felt it was a little bit more organic in that. I think what works so well about this collaboration is that he is a true lover of Tim's. Right. And so it actually started with him tweeting saying, Oh, I want this, Tim's, I want this. And whenever he was in Ontario, we would see see him holding Tim's walking with Hailey Bieber.
00;16;56;11 - 00;17;24;05
Speaker 2
And so it came from a truly authentic space and which I think is unlike other kind of collaborations that QSR artists had. I think that's why consumers have responded to it so well. And I think what this does is that it brings consumers closer to one of their favorite Canadian celebrities in a new way that they haven't been able to do before.
00;17;24;05 - 00;17;40;16
Speaker 2
And so I think that's what makes it so exciting. And so we did do a little bit of research to understand, you know, what are the right product does that fit with Justin? But obviously the products.
00;17;40;16 - 00;17;41;05
Speaker 1
Were.
00;17;41;27 - 00;17;43;08
Speaker 2
Driven by him and what he.
00;17;43;08 - 00;18;11;23
Speaker 1
Loves that's cool. Yeah, it's been a huge hit. Everyone is loving it. I have tried the tidbits. They're very good. They're also great OK, so I've only got a couple couple more questions. The first one being this one's really about sort of setting up that insights function and then kind of getting your internal stakeholders on board for liquor.
00;18;12;02 - 00;18;26;24
Speaker 1
You know that the direction that the business is going in, the direction that the insights team is going, how do you how do you do that? How do you get people on board and get people sort of aligned in the way that they're thinking about how research can play a role within the business?
00;18;27;08 - 00;18;59;24
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that I mean, as I said earlier, our whole job is to create certainty for the business, which essentially everyone wants. So I think, though, that what has to happen is we have to build those relationships with our stakeholders, really understanding what keeps them up at night, where do they want the business to go? And ultimately showing them that by working with us, we're making your life easier and we're helping you make that easier business decisions.
00;18;59;24 - 00;19;33;02
Speaker 2
And I think, you know, after a couple of examples of that, it's easy to get your stakeholders on board. But it's it's really having that relationship with them and and constantly checking in to understand really what do they need? What do they need to to grow their business. And I think by doing that, too, you're able to bring forward ideas and methodology ideas and things like that that they didn't even know that they needed that, again, make their life easier and just help make them more successful.
00;19;34;04 - 00;19;57;25
Speaker 1
So cool amazing. Thank you so much, Erin. We have a new section within Dig In where we're going to ask you. We're going to ask each person who joins us for very similar questions. And they all relate to the fact that you're an inside person. So please bear with me. This is the first time we're doing this. We're calling it our Rapid Fire Questions section.
00;19;58;07 - 00;20;05;19
Speaker 1
OK, lesson number one, if you gained two times your budget tomorrow, what would you spend it on?
00;20;07;08 - 00;20;37;15
Speaker 2
I would finish all my needs dates for every category because I've been doing it slowly over the past couple of years. I would do a lot more longer fees to get to know our consumers we just relaunched our consumer segmentation, and so we are doing some calls heated with them. But I would love to do ethnographies across the country where we would really kind of get to know what makes them tick, what are their lives like.
00;20;38;22 - 00;20;58;06
Speaker 2
I think I would also do a lot more brand research to just check in to say, how are consumers feeling about the brand? And I mean, we get that from our brand tracking, but I would I would love to do it more kind of in focus group style to get those sound bites, because I think that helps inspire the organization.
00;20;58;06 - 00;21;04;19
Speaker 2
And so I will I will eventually do all of that. But I would do it all at once for sure.
00;21;05;07 - 00;21;17;14
Speaker 1
I love that. And then a worse a worse version of this question or worse, have potential stayed is if you lost half of your budget tomorrow, what do you think you'd give up?
00;21;19;04 - 00;21;45;00
Speaker 2
I mean, I think I would do the same split in terms of foundational and more tactical research, but I think I would make the most of my tactical research. And so, you know, I think we're lucky that we have a pretty healthy budget. And so we'll do idea testing throughout the year a couple of times. And so but I think that there's ways to kind of maximize each of those studies to say, like, let's put in more ideas.
00;21;45;12 - 00;22;04;22
Speaker 2
Can we test claims in those studies? Do we test more concepts at one time just so we get our bang for our buck when we are doing that type of research? So that's what I would probably do and I have to do often. I mean, I don't lose half my budget, but I think everyone is trying to make their budget stretch as much as it can.
00;22;05;22 - 00;22;23;08
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's definitely something that we've heard kind of across the board over the last few years. So yeah, that makes sense. OK, what is the coolest QSR quick serve restaurant for anyone who isn't familiar with the acronym, the coolest QSR innovation you've seen in the last 12 months?
00;22;23;26 - 00;22;30;10
Speaker 2
I mean, it has to be at 20 well obviously.
00;22;32;17 - 00;22;35;29
Speaker 1
OK, anything else that you, that you really like? They, you seem.
00;22;37;04 - 00;23;03;23
Speaker 2
I mean from, from us as well. We launched questions last year, which I think was a really insight driven product with consumers saying, you know, I want something a little bit more refreshing from QSR, but also something that I can feel good about that's also super accessible. And so I think that was a really strong product launch from us.
00;23;03;23 - 00;23;05;23
Speaker 2
But that again was really insight driven.
00;23;06;11 - 00;23;13;12
Speaker 1
Cool. And finally, what is the most important skill for any insights to have in their toolkit right now? Um.
00;23;13;23 - 00;23;36;09
Speaker 2
I think that the consumers behaviors, what they're doing is just changing so quickly more than ever before. And so I think in the past we would do studies and then that would be kind of what it was for years we would say, this is what consumers do. This is, you know, this is, this needs, this is this consumer segment.
00;23;36;09 - 00;24;05;09
Speaker 2
This insight is, is true and it's long lasting. I actually don't think that's true anymore. And so we have to be a lot more forward thinking because consumers are changing so quickly and their needs are changing so quickly. Their behaviors are changing so quickly. And so I think we have to be more forward thinking and we have to bring those macro trends that are really shaping those behaviors more to the forefront in the organization.
00;24;06;26 - 00;24;17;06
Speaker 1
Awesome. Erin, this has been great. Thank you so much for joining us this week. And yeah, anyone who hasn't go tried Tim Bibs, they're great.
00;24;18;24 - 00;24;21;05
Speaker 2
Yes. Get big spreads delicious.
00;24;23;03 - 00;24;36;06
Speaker 1
You know, and by Thanks for tuning in this week. Find us on LinkedIn at Dig Insights and don't forget to hit subscribe for a weekly dose of fresh content.