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Welcome to Constructing the Carolinas, a show where we explore the growth of our communities, cities, and counties across North Carolina and figure out what's on the horizon. This podcast is brought to you by Barnhill, which has been Constructing the Carolinas since 1949.
Valerie Bono - 00:00:04:
Welcome to Constructing the Carolinas, a show where we explore the growth of our communities, cities, and counties across North Carolina and figure out what's on the horizon. We are brought to you by Barnhill, which has been constructing the Carolinas since 1949. I'm your host, Valerie Bono, Director Of Business Development. Today, we're exploring North Carolina's boomtown by taking a closer look at Johnston County with County Commissioner Butch Lawter Lauder and Director of Economic Development, Chris Johnson. Now, to set the stage, Johnston County sits just outside of Raleigh and consists of 11 cities, including Smithfield, Clayton, Benson, and Selma. Its claim to fame as being the number one sweet potato producing county in the country. It has the Tobacco Farm, Life Museum, as well as the Ava Gardner Museum. So historically, you'd think of Johnston County as a farm country, but things are changing. In fact, Business North Carolina recently listed Clayton as the fastest growing city in North Carolina and a major player in the pharmaceutical industry, gaining five residents per day. As longtime resident, Chris has seen the transformation firsthand.
Chris Johnson - 00:01:19:
When I moved in 1990, the population of the county was around 80,000 people. Today, we're probably pushing 250. We're adding between 8,000 to 12,000 residents across the county each year. So we're going to be north of 300,000 in the next five to six years just on the simple back of a ballroom napkin math of growing about 3% to 4%. So that is due, again, because of our close proximity to the triangle. But we can really identify it because of the interstate highway systems that we have. Obviously, everybody knows about I-95. And then we have a direct line into Raleigh with I-40. But from a transportation standpoint, we've got US-70, which is being transitioned into I-42. But one of the most important transportation projects for the county is not actually in Johnston County. It's actually in Wake, and that's the southern loop. So once that's completed, which... Sometime next year, I've heard second quarter, I've heard third quarter. Commissioner Lawler can probably... Find out or say a little bit more about that. But the point is, is that we're going to be that much closer. And that really brings in the entire county, you know, because we're going to be 15 minutes closer to the airport, 15 minutes closer to downtown, 15 minutes closer to whatever industries are looking for. So we're very fortunate in that. And that's kind of contributed to the growth, which is a blessing. But then it's also a challenging thing because then there's more people that may live in Johnston County that work elsewhere. Our labor shed is over 110,000 in population, but yet 70 percent, 65 to 70 percent actually work elsewhere. So my role as an Economic Development is to turn those cars around and to give opportunity to have a live-work-play possibility for our residents.
Butch Lawter - 00:03:10:
Yeah, and I moved to Clayton in 93. And I got elected to the town council in 99, so I served there for 14 years. And so it was, you know, I think it was about 5,000 when I moved to Clayton. So Clayton and western Johnston County has primarily seen the growth from, I was there in 93, well, the whole time up until recently. And so the rest of the county, and especially with the opening of 540 next year, you know, Chris was talking about saving 15 minutes. Well, I think people are going to take those 15 minutes of savings and drive further into Johnston County. And really in 15 minutes from where 540 hits 40, you'll be able to get to Princeton on the east side and Meadow. And so I think we have more people will see the central and eastern part of the county, you know, starting to grow as well. So I'm looking for this. And it's a challenge, like I said, with people, you know, require services and, you know, we've got water, sewer, schools. All the things that go with that. And then one of the things that's a challenge for us, and just saw this statistic last night at our Central Pines Regional Council presentation, is out of the Triangle J, which is basically 10 counties around Wake County, Johnston County has the largest agriculture. Production and business of those 10 by far. But on the flip side with the growth we're seeing, we're losing farmland at the fastest rate in North Carolina and then also 19th in the country. So that is our challenge as commissioners is how do we preserve some of that? Because in our land use plan, people said 75% of the people said we value open space and farmland. We've got to figure out how to balance that out with the growth.
Valerie Bono - 00:04:57:
Sure. It sounds like the chicken and the egg too, right? You're shaving 15 minutes off of your commute time now. So more people are going to be coming to Johnston County, but then you're looking at your largest industry as agriculture. So how do you maintain that? I think you've got, it sounds like you might have your work cut out for you, right?
Butch Lawter - 00:05:13:
I believe you're right.
Valerie Bono - 00:05:16:
Well, so let's talk about the growth some more, right? So there's a lot. You mentioned schools, taxes, right? There's just so many benefits. What are some of the other hidden gems about Johnston County that's driving some of that growth?
Chris Johnson - 00:05:32:
I'll start on that, and it's really kudos to the county commissioners. I think we've got one of the finest education systems in the Triangle region of North Carolina as far as the system is, the local school system. The last thing that I remember over the last 20-plus years, our citizens see the value in the public education system. Has approved about over 700, close to 800 million dollars in school bond construction. And so we probably have some of the finest facilities of any school system in the state of North Carolina. So we're second to none in that. And so that's been a huge attraction for young families to move to the area. And then, you know, we see the value of worker training and we've got an excellent community college system. And and positioning ourselves to meet the growing needs of our industries. We've got a fabulous workforce development center that's kind of geared toward the biotechnology, which is kind of a state-of-the-art, first out of its gate with regards to really focusing on the biotech sector. But then the county commissioners have also identified close to $20 million for another workforce development center in the Four Oaks area. So we see the importance of an education and the value of keeping or training our workforce and develop. Because if you talk to any site consultant or any industry, the number one thing that they're looking for is talent. Where am I going to find my workers? And when you're a county of our size with 3.5% unemployment, it's going to be a tough sell. But – The way we talk about that is that, again, I go back to what I said earlier, about 65 to 70 percent of our workforce leaving every day. If you pay them a good salary, they'll be more than happy to live in a community and work in a community which benefits us. So the employees are there, but then we're also growing the workforce locally. And, again, kudos. And I'd say this even if Butch Lawter wasn't sitting here next to us. I mean, the county country commissioners promise to our high school students is second to none. I mean, we're – and I'll turn it over to him to kind of explain that. So I don't want to monopolize the microphone.
Butch Lawter - 00:07:40:
That's all right. So I'll say the hidden gems, to me, I'll think of two as, one, the natural resources and the land that we have. But the people, as you said. And I'll say whether they're – Good people, hard working people in Johnston County. And I think the commissioners have seen that. And we've talked, you know, Chris's job is economic development, which means we need workforce. We've invested in that. And recently, with the schools, in the last two years, both the public school system and our community college, we've fully funded. Their request in addition to the citizens passed $177 million school bond, which we're working on. Now, hopefully in the spring, we'll see three schools starting to come out of the ground on that. But the piece that we've looked at is beginning of his workforce development starts in the public school system and then continues through the community college. So we've seen the investment in that. And two years ago, we created what's called the Commissioners Promise, JoCo Commissioners Promise, the Johnson County JoCo Promise, where if you graduate from a high school in Johnson County, public charter schools are public schools, but a school in Johnson, you're eligible to go to JCC and have free tuition. And I think currently there are 700 students who are taking advantage of that program, and we expect that to continue to grow. So we're, as commissioners, we feel that we need to invest in our programs. People. So that we can have Chris straight and bring in jobs. And then we can maybe turn around some of those folks like me who drive to Wake County almost every day to work that we can have those truly, as he mentioned, working jobs that live. And play, and I will say that's one thing. As my children, my children now are in their early 30s, but as the generation before them, typically when they graduate from Clayton High School. It was an exodus, and the plan was to leave Johnston County. And now, as I'm looking in our workforce and I see our teachers, our folks who are working for county government in the industry. Yoos. Those, my children, all of my children and my grandchildren live within 15 minutes of me, all in Johnston County. So that is, as a commissioner, that is what I really like to see is the fact that you can raise a family in Johnston County and they don't have to leave Johnston County. And the more we can create that, the more time the moms and dads can spend close to home and visit the schools and be with their children rather than be sitting in an office in Raleigh wondering what's happening with their kids. And when they get home at 6 o'clock and it's time to do homework and go to bed, they get to coach their athletic teams and do those things with their children.
Chris Johnson - 00:10:28:
And let me go back also, you mentioned one of the things that I've seen during my tenure has really been a kind of concerted effort to push the growth. Because for the longest time, Johnston County was, we have 11 municipalities, but Yet 70% of our population doesn't live in the municipality. They live kind of outside. They identify as Johnston County. But over the past couple of years, there's been a concerted effort to push that growth and direct that growth back into the municipalities where there's infrastructure in place, where there's already parks, where there's already the amenities like that. So the errors of the past, they've kind of corrected from past things that have happened maybe 20, 25 years ago with allowing just sprawled development occurring.
Butch Lawter - 00:11:13:
Yeah, I think that's one thing that the last couple of boards have really focused on is recognizing, okay, more people are coming. Our resources are limited. You know, the towns are kind of already positioned with as less move that growth towards the towns. And really, some of the things we're doing now, I would say, is unprecedented. We've had for about six months now meetings with all the towns in the county to look at regionalization of our utilities. And I think the communication when I was on the town council in Clayton. I'm going to be nice and say, you know, we did not think the county was there to help. And now I think we're seeing that there's some trust being built there. And we all realize that, you know, and we like to say as commissioners, if our 11 towns are succeeding, then the county's going to be succeeding. So it's more of a team feel to making Johnston County be rather than each town and then the county trying to do their own thing.
Valerie Bono - 00:12:12:
Yeah, what I heard you say, there's a lot of things that I want to unpack. So one, investing in the community, right? You talked about Johnston County as a whole investing in the future and to grade school students because that is the future of the workforce. We're really fortunate at Barnhill. We're actually building one of the high schools that was part of the bond project. So we're super excited about that. And we'll find ways to bring the students onto the job sites, right, so they could learn about construction as a future career. But the fact that, you know, the commissioners are investing also for the community college level, right, and saying, okay, if you graduate from Johnston County High Schools, you can go to Johnston Community College. Being able to graduate debt-free, I think, is incredible. So thank you for offering that opportunity to the students. Very few, I think, can be set up for success, right, coming out debt-free.
Butch Lawter - 00:13:06:
Yeah, we've been very fortunate that we've been able to hear the stories of, you know. Students who weren't planning on going anywhere after high school didn't get a job. And now they're saying, hey, I can go to community college. And a lot of them, it'll be life-changing for their families. They can develop a career with us. The biopharma industry or anywhere else that they can. And I will say our fire services, our emergency services people, we're in big need for those just like everybody else. But we're looking into trying to develop programs there for students who want to go into emergency services. And we're trying to figure out now, how do we? Incentivize them and then offer them an opportunity. If you stay in Johnston County to be in law enforcement or in fire services, we'll take care of your. Tuition and fees. So we're working on that as well.
Valerie Bono - 00:14:00:
Are there any partnerships with local companies to keep, you know, those that graduate from JCC in the community so that they continue to live locally?
Butch Lawter - 00:14:10:
I think we have a great relationship. We have a foundation with the community college too. And I think that's working together. We're seeing that grow as people realize as we grow as a county that the workforce is here. Let's keep them here. So I think you're seeing the community college. I think 10 years ago, the community college system was more come to transfer to a four-year school. And now people are realizing, you know, you can. If you're going to welding, you can get a certification and you can make $100,000 a year without having to go to a four-year school. So I think it's transitioned back to realize that, hey, vocational training. Yeah, it's a good thing. I mean, it's better than a good thing. You don't think about college coming out with debt, no debt. I mean, that's a whole lot better to do that. So I think you're seeing it recognized more and working together as a community to keep those students in Johnston County.
Chris Johnson - 00:14:59:
And we're seeing it also in the traditional public school, too, that the career and technical education, you know, used to be that to kind of tag on to what Commissioner Lauder was talking about of. Not everybody needs to or not everybody wants to go to a four-year institution. And so they're really kind of focusing back on putting the trades back into the high school level. We just had finished up last week with JoCo Works, which is a collaboration with all of our chambers of commerce. And also our existing industries, to really spotlight opportunities for eighth graders. So every eighth grader in Johnston County came onto the campus of JCC, had hands-on experience with a multitude of industries, and kind of said, okay, if I go and go this route, and particularly in the life science and the pharmaceutical area, those things that are being taught, the bio works, are now going to be implemented into the high school level. So there's a lot of companies that have come up to us and said, as soon as they walk across the graduation state as a 12th grader, we want them to receive their diploma and then also be handed a job application, because we want them to immediately come to work. So when you can tell an 18-year-old that if you do the right things and you take these classes and you graduate, that you can immediately come out making $45,000, $50,000 a year. And again, I mean, that's generational changes, because a lot of, particularly along the I-95 corridor, there's still a lot of first-generation. Residents whose families. Have moved from other countries. You know, college is really not necessarily something that was ever in their vocabulary or even thought of. And so it's really kind of been an opening experience along the I-95 corridor where predominantly most of the, I hate to use the word poverty, but where the lower income individuals or families live. And that's a generation, what we were talking about, you know, changing generations. So it's an experience to watch those kids kind of a light bulb go off and say, you know what, I can do this. And so you kind of keep the kids engaged, and it's given them opportunities.
Valerie Bono - 00:17:10:
Yeah, I would imagine all of that combined is a game changer for, you know, as you're looking at economic development and businesses are looking to come to Johnston County and you're competing with other areas, you can say, hey, we've got a solution for workforce, right? We're reaching out to the younger generation and we're setting them up for success. And that's going to help you continue to have employees, which other areas are struggling.
Chris Johnson - 00:17:34:
Exactly. And we've already seen, particularly with the JoCo Works program that we've had, we've already saw a couple of other counties in the western part of the state start duplicating those efforts. So, you know, you have a little bit taller posture when you hear about people copying some of the successful things that we've been doing, which is great. I mean, it's all about changing lives. And that's the thing about economic development. It's really, yeah, it's all about the win and having those ribbons. But driving past it years from now and having individual citizens or having citizens work there and change lives, that's what really drives us.
Valerie Bono - 00:18:13:
So diving deeper into workforce, are there any state or local government incentives to attract businesses to Johnston County?
Butch Lawter - 00:18:20:
I let Chris, Chris there is that one.
Chris Johnson - 00:18:23:
Well, unfortunately, government does not have a big bag of money that they pass out to industries. Our incentive policy that we've adopted in Johnston County is. Really a safety net for our citizens because it's all based on the new investment that communities or what companies bring into the community. And so it's just a percentage back. So if they pay a certain amount of taxes, then they get a percentage back over a period of time. So it's really kind of a safety net for that to attract industry. Obviously, we work closely with the EDP&C and the funding and the support that The Governor’s office gives us, whether it's JDIG grants or 1NC. And then also there's worker training. That are through our community college system. So we're no different than any other community in North Carolina for that matter. Fortunately, unfortunately, we're a Tier 3 county, so I may have some issues with the tier system and the ranking of that and how Johnston County comes across because we do have some areas in the county that if you just single them out, they would probably be a Tier 1 community. But we try to implement that with the commissioner's assistance of figuring out how we can meet their needs. And it's just having a good sit-down conversation with the business leaders and saying, what is it that you're really looking for and how can we figure that out together? So it's really having that pro-business conversation and that relationship with the businesses and industry. So that's the secret sauce.
Butch Lawter - 00:20:00:
Yeah, I think Chris had mentioned the tier system. And about six years ago, what is now Central Pines used to be Triangle J, COG, but Central Pines Regional Council did a white paper on the tier system. And you look at Johnston County, we talk about 11 towns. Only two of the towns were in the Tier 3 category. A lot were in Tier 1, some were in Tier 2, but the vast majority of the county was Tier 1 or 2. A portion of it was the Tier 3. So as things go through and get evaluated, we have opportunities that when looked at where they are and who is there and the economic situation they're in, it's clearly a Tier 1, but we don't get considered for a lot of things because the county is a Tier 3. So it's difficult, but when you go to, you can come to Wake County and you see the same thing. So I know our... Our folks in Raleigh who represent all the state are working on. On how to work with that. And I will say, Chris does a great, it's about relationships, to make sure that Johnston County has a seat at the table and people will know who to call, whether that's Chris or commissioners. And I think our four representatives and senators, our senator from Johnston County have done a great job in the last few years, working to make sure that if there is anything that Johnston County is eligible to receive and can receive, they work really hard to make sure that we get that. So kudos to them for that.
Valerie Bono - 00:21:37:
So in 2022, Johnston County released the Envision Johnston County Land Use Plan. With this being a construction podcast, right? It's Constructing the Carolinas. Can you give our listeners an idea of what is to come from that land use plan?
Butch Lawter - 00:21:53:
So I'll do my best to summarize that. So I'll start from before 2022. The last time the land use plan had been updated was 2011. So a lot of growth happened from a... 10-year-old. Land use plan. So when we decided to start the process, it took about a year and a half to start it and to finish it. But I think the things that we see, and Chris had mentioned this before, is let's push the higher density growth towards the towns. Let's put where the resources are. Let's do that. And then how do we, the places that are developing that may already have water and sewer, how do we develop those so there's more, I'll say, mixed use. There's an opportunity to have the retail so that people aren't driving 20 miles to go somewhere that it's all kind of contained. And we look mainly along the interstate corridors at intersections. How do we do that? And then the biggest challenge we have, as I mentioned before, was those agriculture areas. How do we make sure that we still have that as part of the quality of life that the people in Johnson County want? And again, I think 75% of the people that we surveyed during the land use plan, the open space and farmland were critical as they saw it. So we tried to roll that in. And all into one plan. And I think we did as good a job as anybody could do making sure that happens. Now, the flip side, the plan is the big picture. So we're getting ready to undertake the ordinance provision. So that's kind of where the rubber meets the road. And we put what can go where on the ground. So I think that if I'm in the development community, construction community, I don't think I see anything really slowing down. I think where the development is occurring. May be more focused. May be more focused. And less sprawled. Than it has been in the past, but I think that's our... Goal is to have that more focused where the resources, we can maximize the dollars spent for the houses there rather than go to acre lots everywhere. And then we just create sprawl and all the problems that go with that. So I think the opportunities are going to be there, probably just a little bit different configuration and closer to the towns.
Chris Johnson - 00:24:11:
But then also talking about the construction standpoint, I mean, our leadership and every department understands the value of speed to market, and that's never been more critical. And so being responsive and making sure that if our phone rings, that there's somebody that answers it and that somebody can provide an answer or at least say, let me check on that and I'll get back with you. Because we understand that it's a very highly competitive region and that we want to make sure that we stay on top of that and continue that growth. And because it's all, again, about relationship. So that goes back to the leadership that's been set by the county commissioners. But then also, whether it's my office or our utility department or planning and zoning or whichever department that you may call, there's going to be a live voice on the line.
Butch Lawter - 00:24:58:
Yeah, I think we're talking about relationships again. In my day job, we do work all across the state of North Carolina for local governments and for development or industry that are taking things to local governments. So I get the benefit of hearing things that are working in places and things that aren't working. And just somebody answering the phone, as simple as that, makes it different when you're trying to, you know, if you're a contractor or developer trying to get something done, at least getting an answer, somebody to answer the phone and say, yes, no, not now. You know, it's still going to be two weeks, but having some sort of answer as quick as they can get one so they can plan. And I think that's, you know, again, I can hear that when I'm at work. And then when I'm as a commissioner, I can say, hey, I heard this is going on somewhere else. What are we doing either to make that happen or make that not happen? And typically the staff is already aware of it. And on top of it. So I will say, again, our staff, our manager, Rick Hester, and all our staff is, you know, are top notch. And the green tape, you know, not red tape that Chris always refers to.
Valerie Bono - 00:26:09:
Well, Commissioner, I'm glad you mentioned your day job. So for those of us that don't know your day job, would you be able to share a little bit more about that and how you balance the two, right? You're a commissioner and with WithersRavenel.
Butch Lawter - 00:26:21:
Yes, I will say a commissioner is not a full, it is a full-time job, but it's not your only job unless you're retired, I'd say. And so my day job, I work with WithersRavenel. We're a consulting firm, engineering consulting firm with, I think, nine offices now from Asheville to Wilmington, headquartered here in Cary. And my role in that, I'm what we call a senior delivery officer, which. Makes everybody go, what is that? So think of multi-department manager. I have a group of of folks in our utility department practice area reports to me. We have a Utilities, Funding and Asset Management, which gets money for local governments and helps them manage their assets, as well as private industry. And then we have a stormwater. Team. So those three practice areas I'm responsible for. And fortunately, I have some really good people who are sharp and it makes my job easy. But I had an environmental background. That was kind of what I came through. I did highway construction. Not for Barnhill, but for somebody else for 17 years. So that was, and really there, I got a lot of experience trying to get asphalt plants, concrete plants, sand pits permitted. And so that took me to a lot of different local governments and I was able to learn. Yeah, the good things and the bad things there. Enjoy it's a great place we do like i said a lot of local government work so when i'm at a county commissioner event, there's typically clients there or potential clients there. So I can work the WithersRavenel angle, but as a commissioner, as a WithersRavenel, when I'm somewhere, I can sell Johnston County. And we've had at least one client, one industry that has moved to, come to Johnston County that was a client that I said, hey, whenever you're done looking with what you're doing, what you're going to do in Wake County, come check us out and call Chris Johnson and we'll make, and two years later, they have a facility almost completed. So it really works well from both perspectives for me. I'm very fortunate to have the job that I have.
Chris Johnson - 00:28:33:
And all of our county commissioners have a business background. So it kind of fits into nicely with that. They've been on the other side of the table. So that makes my job easier because they get it. And, you know, so when I have a conversation with a client. It's easy to approach our county commissioners and say, look, this is the situation that they're running in. They understand it as well. So it's a great partnership and a great working relationship.
Butch Lawter - 00:29:00:
Yeah, I hadn't really thought about that. But all seven of the commissioners. Have had it part of their work history. Has been involved in getting permits and dealing with local government. So that does talk about that perspective. But I think we may be unique that all seven commissioners have been on the other side of the table from the local government and understand what the average citizen in our industry coming to Johnson County have experienced. So we try to, again, the green tape. You're moral.
Valerie Bono - 00:29:34:
Yeah, absolutely. And with that, you bring relationships, right? You talked about all the relationships that's critical to Johnston County's success. So can you give us a little bit of a sneak peek behind the curtains of some of the industries and companies you may be reaching out to or connecting with right now?
Chris Johnson - 00:29:50:
Sure thing.
Butch Lawter - 00:29:50:
I was going to say, I know nothing.
Chris Johnson - 00:29:53:
Again, I go back to what I mentioned earlier about we check all the boxes. So I get a good look at what projects are considering North Carolina just because we're in the fastest growing region and the fastest growing state in the US. And so it's just a matter of making sure, do I have all the things that the client is looking for? Most of the time, people are now looking for existing buildings, which we know that there's a limited amount of product that's out there. Whether it's a 250,000 square foot building or a million square feet building and everything in between. So. It's a, we have, our county and my office, we don't own any property. We don't own any buildings. It goes back to the philosophy of the county commissioners of government should not compete against the private sector, but we should partner with the private sector. So I'm proud to say that. So it's my role, one of my roles is working with existing property owners and just going to them and saying, what's your vision for your piece of property? And then trying to also working with the land use plan and figuring out, is this the right location for an industry? Going ahead and getting it rezoned, going ahead and doing the due diligence, the phase one, the geotechnical, getting it certified again. So then that way we're in a position that when a client does call, I can immediately roll out three or four different opportunities within Johnston County. And we've got all the questions asked or answered, I should say. That they may have. So, life science, we see a tremendous amount of that because of our success with Grifols and Novo Nordisk. Advanced manufacturing, we're seeing a lot of batteries, and that's because of, you know, VinFast and the renewable energies, solar, warehouse distribution. We check the boxes of that because we're close to Raleigh, we're on the interstate, we're close to the ports, we do have a mainline CSX, but then we also have the North Carolina Railroad or Norfolk Southern that runs east-west. So, warehouse and distribution is something that we see a lot of as well. The unfortunate situation with that is that that tends not to bring the higher-paying jobs, and so we welcome any and all investment, but, you know, we want to make sure that if we're incentivizing anything, it's going to be something that can move the needle and change the lives of our residents and give them an opportunity. And then it goes back to, you know, when you're at a 3% or 4% unemployment. I've had serious conversations with companies that have looked at Johnston County and they're considering Johnston County, and I want them to be as successful as they possibly can. I'm a small business person myself. My wife and I have been in the retail business for 33 , and I do not want somebody to select Johnston County and then immediately not be successful because of some information that they may not have had at the time. So we have those upfront, honest conversations. And I think that attributes to why we've been so successful, because we just tell them the truth. If you locate here, we welcome, we'll bring out the big set of ribbons and sing the praises. But the last thing we'd want to do is have somebody move into the area and then have a huge amount of struggles with labor. And so we'd just rather have those, you know. And then we'll have that conversation. Well, maybe it's not here, but, you know, let me share my colleagues' information down, whether it's in Sampson or Wayne or Wilson or Fayetteville or wherever else that they may be a better fit. So I'm a huge regional guy. You know, the rising tide floats all boats cliche. But I also understand that when Michael over in Chatham County or Jimmy down in Lee County, when they announce these big projects and their success, then I understand that there's ancillary opportunities for Johnston County. So I've gone to just as many announcements in other counties as I've had in my own because I see the benefit of that.
Butch Lawter - 00:34:02:
And the thing I'll add to that is prior to Covid with Ravenel, we had a phrase, be nimble and adjust. And so I think that is one thing that Chris has done a really great job of. And we started when I first got on there was basically the incentive package that he talked about. Then we talked about the warehouse and leasing that we've added. And then I don't even know the name of the third one. But we hear so much, Okay, we've got industry who's already here. Instead of attracting people, how do we help the industries that are already here? I'll let Chris talk more about that. But that's kind of the thing that we haven't been stagnant and said this is what we have. And a lot of the ideas, frankly, again, relationships, the good things that other people are doing, Lee County, for example, say, hey, we need that tool in our toolbox. And Chris comes to us and being the pro-business folks, that's a great idea. How do we make that happen? So I'll let you talk about that third piece of that.
Chris Johnson - 00:35:01:
The building reuse, well, first, the building lease program that Commissioner Lauder talked about was something that actually was done in Lee County. And we had discussed it. And it's basically how can you build product, have product on the ground? Because I've got a lot of developers that says, well, Chris, you bring me somebody with a good, strong lease and I'll build them any building that they want. And that's easy to say. But the situation it is now in this economic climate, people are wanting building already. They are product already on the ground. So, you know, we've modeled ourselves after Lee County in pre-leasing buildings or working with developers and having product on the ground or getting product on the ground. But then also, as we talked about the tier system earlier, Johnston County is not able to go after the building reuse funds that the state has. So I go to my county commissioners and I don't want to say they've said yes to me every time, but if I can make a good argument, they will. They will tend to go along with what I'm saying because I say, look, we're missing out these opportunities because we're this. What can we do locally? And the county commissioners and also they hear just like I do from our existing industries is that when you hear these new companies coming in and they're getting millions of dollars of incentives, which is really just their taxes getting back, what are we doing to reward our existing companies that have been pretty much family-owned businesses that have been here for 30, 40 years? And so we've implemented just this. We've implemented this year a building reuse program for our existing companies that if they can grow jobs, if there's some things that we can do to assist, whether it's running fiber or infrastructure or doing other things, then we have that in the tool belt. So it's a good situation to be in.
Valerie Bono - 00:36:49:
Exciting times in Johnston County.
Butch Lawter - 00:36:51:
It is.
Chris Johnson - 00:36:51:
Come grow a JoCo.
Valerie Bono - 00:36:53:
That's right. Come grow a JoCo. I love that. Well, Commissioner, you are the county chairman and you bring a unique background with municipal work, right? So can you talk about some of the value add that you bring to your role?
Butch Lawter - 00:37:06:
One thing I will say is coming from Clayton and being close to Wake County, we were kind of on the leading edge of the growth. With that came some things that weren't happening in the rest of the county we see now. And an example of that is public information officer. The county didn't have, we had one in Clayton. We were very lucky to have one who's now Wake County's PIO officer. So had experience with that and understanding that, you know, don't leave it to the media to paint your barn. And so we need to paint our barn before somebody else gets a chance to. So by bringing the PIO officer on, we're able to do that now. We can tell the story really before there is a story, and we can put informational things together to educate and put our message out there about the services we provide, whatever it is, that we're able to do that now. So the other thing that I learned in Clayton was people are the expectation for parks and recreation, greenways, the passive recreation. The people are coming to expect that now. And it's part of the thing that I brought with me to the county level was we didn't have a parks office. So a lot of good things, good ideas, greenway connections and stuff, people would get together and say, that is a great idea. We need to do that. And then it would walk away from the table and nobody was in charge. So it just floundered. And so now we brought a park, I think we call it parks, open space, and greenways, one of those, those three of those together. But we have somebody as director now, and we also have, he has an assistant now. So we are connecting dots like we've never done before. We've purchased parkland. Actually, we've purchased a couple. And we're working with our school system. That's when they buy property, we buy property next to it. But so we have an opportunity to, frankly, we do kind of like Wake County is take advantage of that and the co-locate facilities so that we can make the best use of it. But I would say those are the two biggest things I think that I learned from my experience at a municipal level. To understand and appreciate and be able to get that on the county level. And I think both of those have made a world of difference. When educating the public and then also providing that quality of life that is important to the people in Johnston County.
Valerie Bono - 00:39:22:
So you mentioned this public information officer being able to tell the story right of Johnston County. So let's go to our speed round and tell a little bit more of your story. So what are some fun and exciting initiatives that you're both working on right now that we haven't discussed?
Butch Lawter - 00:39:39:
I'll go first. So we have, when there's farmland sold for another use, then there's three years worth of taxes that have to be paid at whatever that new value is. So if it went from farmland to residential. They had to pay three years, and that would go into our general fund. So a couple years ago, Uh... And we finally implemented it this year, say, hey, why don't we take that money? Saying it's truly for farmland that's being converted to something else, and invest that in opportunities to preserve farmland. So we've applied. We've used that now to apply for some grants, a half million dollars a year that we're putting out for the next three years. But we're taking that money and trying to reinvest it in there. So that's exciting. We've done that, and we're working on another plan. And I don't know how that's going to unfold, but we want to do something to help the actual farmers to provide an opportunity to them to be able to keep farming, because it's razor-thin margins that they're working on. And so what can we do to help the farmers? And again, 75% of the people in the county in the land use survey think that farming and agriculture is important and want to do something about it. So we feel we kind of have the blessing of the citizens to go forward. We're still working on it. So that's still. In its infancy. But I think that will be something big and probably unique to Johnston County when we get through with that. The other thing we're working on is a fire service we created. We're going to create one single tax district, which sounds, well, that doesn't sound like a big deal, but we have 23. Different fire districts. In Johnston County, each with sets their own tax rate. And we have varying levels of service. And so the commissioner is one of the things we looked at a couple years ago, along with the fire chiefs. Is we want to provide an equal level of service across the county. And so thanks to the fire chiefs and putting the idea together and emergency services staff and directors, we're now starting to implement that. So that'll take five or six years to fully implement. But I think the people, particularly in the more rural areas, will see their level of service increase probably dramatically, probably starting this year. But over time, it'll become uniform across the county. And I think that'll be a big thing. So those three things, I'll leave it at that.
Chris Johnson - 00:42:02:
All right. I'm going to jump in and talk about, we've talked about transportation, and we immediately think about people in cars. We've got a fabulous airport in Johnston County. Actually, a lot of people don't realize it, but it's the third busiest airport behind Charlotte, Douglas, and RDU. With the number of operations, they're probably somewhere going to be needing to get a tower, just like at any of the larger airports. Now, we're not going to have Delta. Or United or any of the major carriers start landing there. But because of the growth of RDU, And their projections has been an opportunity for the, I hate to say pushing out, but they're displacing a lot of general aviation type traffic. And so whether it's the jet port down in Lee County or Johnston or Franklin County, we've seen a tremendous amount of growth there. So they're projected there to add on additional hangar space. Again, there's just people that have five and six million dollar planes that don't want to be set outside, which I understand. I hate to say they got caught flat-footed, but a lot of people got caught flat-footed during Covid, and during the same time, things were being pushed out. So we're very excited about the airport and the growth that we've got there. Johnston County is growing within its own. We've got a tremendous amount of residential projects that are coming online, whether it's The Copper District. Clayton and Dean Penny's project with Craig Davis Group, which is kind of, you know, the only way that I can describe it will be kind of similar to the North Hills area in Raleigh. Over at the Flowers Plantation, they're building something very similar to that. But then also down in Selma over the Eastfield development, there's a tremendous amount of live-work-play opportunity there, which they've got commercial, medical office, residential mixed use. So, a lot of the things that residents in Johnston County had to leave the county for are now being able to have those same services. We talk about the, and we promote the hospital and our relationship with UNC Health Care System and the value that they've added to our local hospital, which was county-owned and still county-owned. But a lot of the services that UNC Health Care System is bringing into Johnston County, whether it's at the Clayton facility or at the Smithfield facility. So, we've got that. And then also, you know, we're fitting ourselves into the bigger Triangle region of North Carolina. And so, We talk about the growth of Johnston County, and I think our commissioners and I think our communities are positioning themselves. When you're talking about growing at 10,000 and 15,000 people annually, we'll soon be the fifth or sixth largest county in the state. And with that, are we able to have the fifth largest fire department, the fifth largest school system, the fifth largest whatever, our jails, our 911 systems, DHS? You know, unfortunately, when you have a growing community, you're also having a growing government. And I say that as a bureaucrat, and I hate being a bureaucrat because I'm also a small business person myself. But there's also – there's expectations from the citizens of, again, when business or our citizens phone a department, they want to have somebody to pick up the line and have a live voice. And so that comes with challenges, but we're meeting with that. And, again, I want to give – I want to give kudos to our county commissioners. Is that over the past three years, and you can correct me, I think we've reduced our tax rate by nine cent. And just this past year, we've got a AAA rating bond rating during that same time. So we're probably one of the few counties in the state that has reduced their tax rate, but then on the flip side has increased their bond rating to a AAA rating. You know, we've reduced our tax rate and that goes back to because of our investment that in our industries and also the growth has supported itself. And so all the amenities and the things, whether it's shopping, retail. The tourism, the age , is paying for itself. And being good stewards with the tax dollars, not being just flippant with spending money that is not necessarily there. So our fund balance has increased tremendously. And so we're in a great position moving forward in the future.
Valerie Bono - 00:46:28:
That's exciting. So, Chris, you mentioned you support small businesses and you also referenced your wife's business. Can you share a little bit more about what she does in the dress shop?
Chris Johnson - 00:46:37:
Well, I wish I could take full credit for that, but I'm just the glorified janitor and bookkeeper of our work there on the weekends. But we've been in business for 33 years. We're a women's apparel shop. If there's a sequin on a dress, we sell it. And so we predominantly pageant and prom, special occasions like that. We used to be into weddings, but we kind of transitioned out of that. So this is the third generation. My daughter just graduated from East Carolina. A year and a half ago, and we're trying to figure out, does she, you know, want to do this? But I bring that mindset. I cut my teeth in economic development for 15 years as a main street manager. So, I say, whether you're a small business with a half a million dollars in sales or a large corporation with a half a billion dollars in sales, it's all about relationships, all about making sure that you're delivering, you know, supply chain, making sure the light's cut on, the toilet's flush, the water runs, and, you know, that your checks are cashed and don't bounce. So, I look at everything from that mindset. And so, again, it's just about relationship and deliver.
Valerie Bono - 00:47:51:
So if I have the opportunity to be in Johnston County, if our listeners are out in Johnston County, where would you recommend that they go? What are some of the hotspots?
Chris Johnson - 00:48:00:
Um, well, actually, I would I would give kudos to our to Donna Bailey- Taylor with the Johnston County Visitors Bureau. Just go to there because we've got a multitude of things that we can talk about. Obviously, Clayton has really expanded their their restaurant scene, their downtown scene with Revival and the Crawford . A lot of the things that would be associated with, you know, downtown Raleigh or in Clayton. Obviously, we've got wonderful shopping opportunities in Smithfield with the Outlet Center, 80-store Premium Outlet Center. And then we've got the Shine Wine and something else, Trail. So, I mean, we have our strong agricultural roots in Moonshine and breweries. Raleigh is now moving out of Raleigh or Wake County into Johnston County. So, you know, I've stolen one away from Michael Haley. So, yeah. But no, it's one of those things that we're really, we're part of the Raleigh MSA. Everybody identifies with that. And I jokingly say, you know, I was in Manhattan a few years ago, and I run into a guy that's outside of a pizza place, and he has a number two pie in her shirt on. I'm like, are you from Raleigh? He said, yeah. I said, really? I'm from Raleigh, too. And then I said, well, I'm really not from Raleigh. I'm from Smithfield. He says, well, I'm really not from Raleigh either. I'm actually from Clinton. And so the point is that we all kind of identify with the larger urban core, and then we start branching out. So that's our selling point is our close proximity to Raleigh. But we're starting to hold our own.
Butch Lawter - 00:49:37:
Yeah, and I would say the Clinton downtown is great. It was great to be a part of seeing that change when I was on the council there. But our other downtowns now are starting to transition and see things happening and restaurants available, breweries everywhere. But the one piece I would say is, and I really didn't know much about until I became a commissioner. And then one of the trustees for Johnston Community College is Howell Woods, 1,800 acres in southeastern Johnston County trails. They have hunting season there, a lot of opportunities there. But that's probably a hidden gem that, you know, living there for 25 years, I'd heard of it. I didn't really know where it was, but once I got on the board of trustees at the community college and found out what that was about. So our greenway trail implementation are expanding and growing. So I think those are the. The things that if you're not going to be in a town where a lot of people are, there's opportunities to get away and enjoy the natural resources of Johnston County.
Chris Johnson - 00:50:39:
Antique District in Selma, Ava Gardner Museum in Smithfield. I mean, there's just a multitude of different things that you can stay. I hate to use the word Johnston County. It's really two counties in one. Obviously, everything west of I-95 is more of the bedroom community of Raleigh or more urban setting. But then you can cross right over to 95, and it's a whole new world. And it's very rural, just like the good Lord created it when he created the earth. And so we're very fortunate that we're very blessed with the best of both worlds.
Valerie Bono - 00:51:14:
All right, so this podcast is Constructing the Carolinas. If there was one project that you would love to see be constructed here in North Carolina, what would that project be?
Chris Johnson - 00:51:26:
I'll jump on this first, and it's really not necessarily construction in the sense of an industry, but we've seen it happen in other areas of the Triangle region and actually Commissioner Lauder has touched on it. I've heard it in other settings is regionalism. We only have a finite amount of water and sewer and things that we can in natural resources, and for us to effectively grow our region and our community in Johnston County is that we have to look beyond not only towns working together, but then counties working together, and we've done a good job in Johnston County with the interlocal agreements with water and things of that nature, but I look right across our county line and the success that Chatham County has had with their huge investments they've announced. That wouldn't have been made possible had it not been for the investment of Lee County and the city of Sanford. We've got to make sure that when I say we, I'm talking about collectively across the region, to duplicate that type County success, and I know that the of Johnston is working with other communities in figuring out how that can happen because, again, we want to make sure that we're good stewards of our environment, and we have the Neuse River that kind of... You know, that runs through Johnston County, but... There's only so much water that you can pull out of it, and there's only so much waste that you can put back into it. And so it's looking at collaboration. So I think that's probably something that I'd like to see continue that conversation. How that happens, I'll leave it up to the bosses.
Butch Lawter - 00:52:58:
I would 100% agree with Alan, but I'm going to go in a different direction, a totally different direction, and I'll be very specific. In Clayton, there was one thing that through the 14 years I was there that we always wanted. In fact, it was one of our goals when I was in Clayton. If we could get a Chick-fil-A in Clayton, somebody could be the king of Clayton for many decades. So that is the one project. If it came to Johnston County, I'd be very Chick-fil-A, Clayton. Yeah. That's what we need.
Chris Johnson - 00:53:28:
Yeah. Chick-fil-A in Clayton. And then when I was with Smithfield, it was always the Dunkin' Donuts or K&W Cafeterias. Not Dunkin'. Excuse me. Krispy Kreme or cafeteria. They would put an erected statute in my honor if I could get those things. I agree. Well, just like Butch Lawter agreed with me, I agree with him about the Chick-fil-A. As our mayor would say in Clayton, every day is Sunday in Clayton because there's no Chick-fil-A.
Butch Lawter - 00:52:53:
Yes. Yes.
Valerie Bono - 00:53:55:
That's fantastic. Well, thank you both so much for your time. This has been an absolute pleasure and so much fun.
Butch Lawter - 00:54:01:
Thank you. Thank you for having us.
Valerie Bono - 00:54:07:
All right. Thank you so much to our guests, Butch Lawter Lauder and Chris Johnson. For more on what's going on in Johnston County, visit johnstonnc.com. Thank you for listening or watching Constructing the Carolinas. We'll be back soon with a new episode, so be sure to press the follow button on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube. And check out what Barnhill is doing to construct the Carolinas. You can find us at barnhillcontracting.com, and you can follow us on LinkedIn as well. This podcast is edited and produced by Earfluence. I'm Valerie Bono, and as we construct the Carolinas and as we build this podcast, I encourage you to keep building and growing as well. See you next time.