Comic Books, Battle Rap, and Finding Jesus - Rodrigo Barba | Ep 012

Rodrigo Barba talks about growing up amid instability and loss, finding identity in battle rap, and struggling with substance use. He shares how faith changed the way he understood his life and performs “Puzzle Piece,” a spoken word about Jesus putting the parts back together.

What is Pivot Or Die?

Pivot or Die is a podcast about the moments that change everything. Hosted by Seth Kaser, each episode features honest conversations with people who have faced major life pivots, hard seasons, failure, grief, addiction, burnout, relationship struggles, faith questions, career changes, and the process of rebuilding. Through real stories and vulnerable conversations, the show explores resilience, healing, personal growth, faith, purpose, marriage, mental health, creativity, and what it takes to keep moving forward when life does not go according to plan.

I want to welcome you to another episode of the Pivot or Die podcast. Today I sat down with Rodrigo Barbara who is a new friend of mine and he talks about his life. I will say just as a disclaimer before we get into the rest of this episode that there are some pretty heavy things talked about here. So this is your disclaimer now if there's kids around or if maybe you're sensitive to to conversations about violence or substance abuse and those things. Um, this is your disclaimer. After Rodrigo had gone through a really hard childhood, he dives into hiphop and the battle rap scene and eventually has a really hard battle with substances and finds himself broken and reaches out to Jesus and finds the savior he has always been looking for. At the end of this podcast, Rodrigo does share a spoken word with us that he wrote about his life. It's a really emotional moment. [clears throat] And so, get get ready for that. And even the context of his life leading up to hearing this spoken word that he gives is pretty amazing. Before we dive in, please hit that like button, hit the subscribe button. If you're listening to this on Spotify or somewhere else, uh, please hit that follow because it really helps us out a lot and it helps us to know that you're listening and it gets this message out to a a bigger audience because a lot of people need to hear this story, including you. So, here we go. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Pivot or Die podcast. I'm your host, Seth Quaser, and I'm joined today by a new friend, Rodrigo Barbara. >> Yeah, happy to be here, man. >> Rodrigo is a um I mean, just incredible dude. It was actually a funny story how we got introduced. This hasn't ever happened yet, but [laughter] my my grandpa, who's honestly meant so much to me in my life, and one day we'll we'll have him on. His name is Doug um as well, and my son was named after him and all those things. But me and Gramps were talking the other day and he goes, "Hey, there's this guy and he's a great speaker and he's got something to say and he says it in a good way and I think he would be a great person to have on your podcast." And so, um, from the recommendation of my grandpa, you and I got together and and >> I got kind of got to hear a little bit of your story. Um, but I'm I'm excited to to dive in more to um, you know, who you are and what you've been through and what God's done in your life. So, thanks for being on the podcast. >> No, I'm blessed to be here. I don't think I've ever been on a podcast before. This is kind of cool. It's like, hey, next step, Joe Rogan, [laughter] >> just joking. Just joking. But no, I'm so blessed to be here and in any capacity that like I can share my story to bless others whether through you know pulpit preaching you know classroom teaching podcast shining light you know the homeless ministry where I met your grandpa and done that like wherever God wants to place me to say something for his glory and to bless others like sign me up like I'm down you know and I just always want to magnify his name for what he's done for me. >> Yeah. >> You know >> that's amazing. But I mean it even from hearing a little bit of your story too like it it didn't didn't start there. >> No. Right. >> Oh [laughter] no no no no no. >> And so um Rodrigo if you can take me take me back a little bit like if you kind of can in in 10 minutes or so like summarizing what the early stages of of your life was like. And I mean you're you're born into the world. >> Yeah. >> What were you surrounded by? >> Yeah man. I mean there's just a lot to it. Like my wife always says you can make a movie with my life. You know, there's so much. But it starts off I was born in Tijuana, Mexico. You know, my mom was uh >> she has her own story that could she could be on here, man, and tell you so much. Yeah. >> But she met my dad out there and she was in a previous relationship in a southern part of Mexico called a little PBLO called Narit >> and she was in a bad relationship there. So, she had to escape. You know, she had two boys in that relationship. Went to Tijuana, you know, by the border closer to the United States. met my dad, had me, and everything was gravy at first, but you know, she just got out a bad relationship. And then with my dad, and it's not even to like demean my father or dishonor him, but you know, at that time, he was an alcoholic. And he never beat her, never even cussed at her, raised his voice at her. Just >> he was just irresponsible with his finances, with his time, you know, with things that he did. So my mom felt, okay, I didn't get out of one bad relationship to jump into another. Yeah. Not doing this. >> We're going to the US. >> So I came here when I was five. That's like maybe 1988 around. I was I was born in ' 83. >> And we get here and um she was in another relationship with someone who I thought was my real father. >> He was my stepdad. But growing up, I'm thinking cuz my real dad wasn't really in the picture even in Tijuana. He was just kind of in and out. So I didn't know who my dad was. >> My mom gets with my stepdad. So I'm growing up thinking like, hey, this is my real dad. And you know, like when you're >> when you're five, you you kind of can remember stuff, but not really. Six or seven, like, okay, I have those memories. So around six or seven, she's with him a couple years, everything's gravy. They split up >> and at that point, you know, a lot of our finances are cut in half. >> Yeah. >> And we're renting, you know, we're in the city of Orange. We're renting garages, rooms, bouncing around, constantly moving. >> And it's it's you and your two brothers, correct? >> And your mom. Yeah. All bouncing around. >> Bouncing around. And then um at one point I was just kind of catching on. I remember asking my mom like, "Hey, where's dad?" And you know, looking back, she was going through so much stress. Yeah. Single mom holding it down with three boys. The two older boys being gang bangers and that being a wreck. And one day she just kind of snapped. >> Cuz cuz how much older were your your brothers than you? >> My next oldest brother is five and the one after him six. >> Okay. Five five six years older than you. Okay. >> Yeah. >> So if I'm like when I'm five, they're like 10 11. Okay. you know, so they hit the streets early because there really wasn't too much, you know, a male authority figure at home and the a constructive environment at home. >> Yeah. >> So, so when I asked my mom, "Where's dad?" And she goes, "He's not your dad." I think she just said that >> angrily and right there it was kind of like >> you could say a pivot moment, right? Pivot or die, right? It was like pivot but not in a good way. I was like, "Wait, >> who's my dad? That guy is not my real dad." Like what? That was just very confusing for me at that age. And it kind of flipped my world upside down. And around that time, my real dad came to visit me and he took me to Tijuana to meet his side of the family for like a week. >> And they treated me good. Like he treated me good. And >> you were like around 10 around >> maybe around 8 to 10 around there. I don't remember exactly, but everyone treated me great. Good memories there. Then he dropped me home dropped me off home after the week and didn't see him again till I was like 17. >> Wow. >> You know, and by the time he comes back >> when I'm 17, a lot has changed. >> Yeah. I'm much more conscious of my environments and that it's not a healthy environment. >> Very angry and resentful that things turned out the way they did. >> You know, after a while, you go to a friend's house from school, you're like, "Wait, they got both parents. >> How come I don't?" >> There's no violence in their home. Heck, they don't even curse in the house. Why does all that happen in my house? >> Like, okay, I'm not too happy about this life, you know? >> And then fast forward, my brother, my oldest brother, Israel, um, he died at the age of 23 from lung cancer. >> Oh, man. Yeah. So that kind of >> So sorry. So you're you're 17 at that point. >> I'm 17 when he dies. Um you know he was probably more involved gang related wise than my other brother >> and you know so he got he the story goes he did a driveby and hit someone. They were trying to accuse him. They didn't know they had enough evidence but they had him locked up for the court date. >> And he's in his jail cell and he starts coughing up blood. >> He's like what? And he tells the the guard a guard like check me out. I'm coughing up blood. They take him to the doctors. are like, "You got lung cancer. Six months to live." >> So, at least the the only good thing was they let him out for the remainder of his life to spend time with us. >> So, he's back in my life. And I'll be honest to say I was very resentful towards him. Said, "Dude, you weren't there for me. Like, you and my other brother, you guys were like this." Yeah. >> And maybe because you guys had the same dad, but it kind of felt like you guys always left me like behind. >> And he was like, "Well, I'm going to die. Can't you let that stuff go?" And I was just really immature. So, >> we were cool, then we weren't. And then the last time I ever spoke to him was an argument and we just got so mad at each other and we yelled at each other. I left the house and it's like a raining. It was a weekend it was just raining raining hardcore hardcore raining and then um even my friends were like, "Hey dude, you should go home." I don't want to go home. They're like, "Dude, I don't know. Something says you should go." I come home, house is empty >> and I'm kind of feeling like eerie vibes and I go to the >> the voice voicemail machine back in the day, you know, we had the cordless phones with the voicemail in there. So I just press play and it's my mom and she says, "Rodo, if you want to see your brother alive, come to UCI right now." >> So I'm like, "What?" And we lived close to UCI right there on Chapman Orange. We had a mobile home out there. And I just ran over there and he was in a coma and he was pretty much done. >> And then I felt a guilt over me >> that the last thing I said to him was like practically a bad word. >> And I tried to walk out and my mom grabs me. She says, "No, if you don't say bye, you're going to regret it." So I went and chokes me up a bit now. >> I went back and I I said bye to him and then you know I left the hospital. So that kind of messed not kind of it did mess me up. You know like saying bye to my brother in a vegetable state and the last conversation we had wasn't pretty. >> And it's like wow. One him being dead hurts. Two I didn't appreciate him when I could have you know three like life just keeps getting more chaotic. It's just violence and death. >> Then my dad comes back to my life a couple months after that. >> Whoa. and he's trying to help me get my papers because my dad was born here actually. >> Okay. >> He was born in Los Angeles. He even he was even in the military. He was in the Korean War actually. >> Wow. >> He served in that. But he always grew up in Mexico because that's where his family was. >> So because he was a citizen, he could get papers for me. >> So it was easier to get papers back then. Way easier. >> So he came back in my life and he's, you know, he's hooking me up. He's getting me papers. >> And you know, we're driving but I'm just quiet cuz I'm just mad at him. I'm mad at the world. And one day he's like, "What's up with you? Like why are you so mad?" I'm like, "Are you serious? my brother died a couple months ago. Like why am I mad? And he's like yeah and like I felt like okay this is my chance like you know like screw you man like and all these explanations I don't want to repeat like you went there and he just parked and he got out the car. He's practically saying like what you want to go and I'm like calm down like what you know and we almost went at it and then it just I don't know what happened but it just kind of calmed itself. We didn't go there thank god. >> Okay. >> You know and it was just like you weren't there and at that time I'll admit I was in depression and I was cutting myself. I was cutting myself cuz I just hated myself so much. >> And remember and and again this isn't to be my dad. He's such a different person now. >> Yeah. >> But I even showed him like, "Dad, look at my scars. Like look where I cut myself." And he literally like just kind of laughed like you're weak kind of thing. >> And I just said like I never want to see you again, dude. >> Like I don't I don't care if you got my papers. I never want to see you again. >> Just he drove off. I walked back in the mobile home crying and my mom's like, "What's wrong?" I'm like, "I just don't want to talk about it, Mom." So that's kind of you know I guess a shotgun blast of like a lot of what I went through and a lot of the resentment built up inside of me. >> Did I mean you know wi with with depression and and self harm and these different things that end up going on. I mean is that something that that started earlier on? >> I'd say maybe like yeah like about maybe 14 or 15 is when it started. I was experimenting with like self-inflicted pain and cutting myself and things. And >> substance- wise, I eventually got there. [laughter] Yeah. >> But like 15 to 17 was a lot of just like mental self abuse. >> Yeah. >> And just like physical with like cutting myself and I got like scars all over, man. And like it was just a really really horrible time for me. >> And and it's funny around 17, I was just like, you know what? I think I'm going to stop that. >> But then my brother dies and I'm like, I don't care. You know, I go back in. I try to calm down. My dad comes back in and it's a wreck. And I'm like, I don't care. And I cut myself again. And it was just I was trying to get away from it. And you know, I just when you don't value yourself, >> you don't see your body as the Bible says the temple of God. >> Quite the opposite of something to damage, right? Yeah. >> So, yeah, I was in a bad spot. >> Yeah. >> I think that's that's a really interesting point, too. That's like as as Christians now, we read the word and it says your body's a temple, but the devil and his demons, they know that scripture, too. >> But they're trying to get you to do the complete and utter opposite. Right. >> Exactly. >> Um and yeah, that's so hard, man. Thank you for Thank you for sharing that. >> Yeah. Um thank you for letting me for creating a safe space where I could share this. Thank you. >> Yeah, absolutely. And so, um, I mean, you're 17, you and your dad have this blowup. You're in a really dark place of of depression. Um, but I mean, one thing too that I just want to hit on before we um before we continue on because you'd kind of uh you kind of talked about this a little bit when when we had met just earlier this week, um, your brothers both got into gang banging and and doing those different things, getting involved in that culture. >> Yeah. >> You didn't, >> right? And one of the things that you said um at that coffee is you said the only reason I didn't go there is because I stuck my nose in a comic book. >> Facts, >> right? And so I mean can you talk about that a little bit? Like what was what was that like? Did you find almost like relief in in going through this fiction and these characters and can you speak to that just a little bit? >> It even makes me smile thinking about it. Honestly, it was it was my escape. I actually preached about this recently. Um about I think it was last Tuesday. preached on um John 18:1-11 when Jesus is going to confront the soldiers that are going to arrest him. >> Yeah. >> And I preached on like the heroic perspective of Jesus like you know he um he's passing the kiddron valley where there's a river like filled with lamb's blood from Passover weekend. They're sacrificing all the lambs. So when he sees that blood he's like that's me. The lambs are about me. I'm next. I'm the lamb of God. Soldiers are coming and he's like I am he. Like I am like I'm not running anywhere. Wow. Peter tries to save him and he's just like, "Hey, why not drink the cup the father has given me?" Like, he's just like a hero's hero head on into the danger saving people. And I kind of almost preached it from a comic book perspective because as a kid, to be honest, I was just so vulnerable. And I don't know, maybe I wasn't alpha enough like my brothers to go out there and shoot people and get in fights. And not that that's an alpha thing, but you know what I mean? Like I wasn't as aggressive enough or what at least the world would call an alpha where I I wanted salvation. I wanted someone to save me. I was always afraid, you know, at any moment my brothers would come home wasted. Like one time my oldest brother, Israel, he came home, you know, twacked out on speed >> and I'm like 10, 11, he throws me to the ground, starts kicking in my ribs for no reason. >> He's just so high off drugs. He's beating me up. I'm like, I can't even trust my own family. >> Kind of funny though, my mom, she's pregnant with my little sister. She can't get up and she's seeing this. She's looking around and she gets a Hairspray can like a Joe Montana. Cracks my brother in the head right here. hits a nerve and blood is just like squirting out like a fountain and he runs out the house. >> Like this kind of stuff was normal man. Like this is the stuff I grew up with. >> So I always wanted even against my brother will come when someone comes save me. So you know when I open a comic book and I see Wolverine man who has adamantium bones who's went through everything and he gets up every time that even you know genetically you can't hurt him. His skin's going to come back together like this is someone that doesn't get knocked down. This is someone who's maybe very violent, but he goes out to do the right thing. >> You know, you see >> even Magneto. Magneto's a villain, but who went through the Holocaust as a kid. No wonder he's angry. He went through a lot. Where was his savior? Now he wants to protect mutant kind because he knows what he went through in the Holocaust as a Jew. Yeah. >> Right. So, I feel like, yeah, I could see being a bad guy, too. I went through some stuff. You just want to protect people. So, I just see these people with power and they're using their power in a way to protect people. Even if in a weird way like Magneto, he kind of became a villain. He did extreme measures, but he's protecting people. Yeah. >> Like Spider-Man, right? With great power comes great responsibility. >> And anybody in my life that had power weren't they weren't too responsible with it, >> you know? They were either absentee >> or irresponsible or violent. Yeah. >> So, I dug in, man. When I see X-Men and them just saving people, I see Captain America, you know, up in the forefront, just even though he was more like a traditional hero, but he's a hero, man. He's sacrificial. >> And in my life, besides my mom, not too many people gave up themselves for me. >> So, this was my world, man. >> Wow. >> I remember even um when the X-Men 96 cartoon came out. Loved it. >> And it came on at the same time that my mom was sending me to Cath Catholic school to do my first communion. >> Okay. >> And my cousin lived around the corner. I be like, "Okay, mom. I'm going to Catholic school." Whoop! I made a left. >> Go watch X-Men. Come back. How was Catholic school? Oh, mom. It was great. [laughter] I learned a lot. But then they eventually called her. They said I was missing. She's like, "What's wrong?" And I was like, "I just want to see X-Men, Mom." And I was just crying. She's all, "Who cares about that cartoon? That's more important." I'm like, "I want to see X-Men." And >> yeah, >> these were my heroes. And I knew it was fictional, >> but these were my heroes. This is a place where I felt like >> it's almost like when you escape, not just in comic books, but in a book, like you put yourself there. Yeah. I felt like when I'm reading this, like I'm here and these characters will protect me. >> And that's why to this day I'm a big like MCU guy. We talked about this. Like I mean even though after Endgame it kind of went >> but that's another story. >> But the new SP we just talked about new Spider-Man >> Tom Holland. You killed it. >> Killed it. >> Killed it honestly man. Like [snorts] great great movie. I'd love to see it again. But yeah, even me and my wife went to see it. So, and my wife knows too, like she didn't really grow up on that stuff, >> but she knows when we go see Spider-Man, Yes. it's entertainment. She knows I'm looking at something deeper. >> Yeah. >> Like, so even comic book movies mean a lot to me. >> Yeah. >> You know? >> Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It's amazing. >> Yeah. >> I love it. Um, so to to move from there back to, you know, you're 17 in this really dark place. I mean, what what happens from there? This is we're getting up to this big pivot in your life, right? And I'm I'm excited to talk about this one. >> Yeah. So, um you know, I turn 18, I get my work permit. My dad, you know, God bless his heart. Even after that fight, he still signed off on the paperwork, >> you know. So, I got my residency. He he signed up for my citizenship, but something political happened. >> I couldn't get it. I forgot why. But point is, I'm able to work now. >> Got my work permit. I'm like, "Okay." You know, I start making a little money, and for a poor kid, you know, even a $100 check is something. Yeah, >> you you feel like you're Elon Musk, man. You know what I mean? >> So, I'm working at like, you know, I was working at Knots. I worked at Target, just some retail stuff, helping my mom with some money. And, you know, I felt like a little more confident, a little more value. I'm making some money now. >> And then, um, my older brother, the survived, brother Victor, he used to sell cell phones in Riverside, but back then when they were the little Nokia tiny ones, everyone wanted one. >> And my brother is a heck of a salesman. He's just born to do it. What do they say? You could sell like ice to an Eskimo. Like, that's him, man. >> So, he's like, "Hey, come with me to Riverside." like throughout the week cuz I wasn't working at that time. So, just come with me and just hang out. I'm like, "Dude, I'm going to be bored sitting out there." And he said, "I'll give you half of what I make." I'm like, "Sign me up." >> Yeah. >> He just he just wanted someone to be with him. I'm like, "All right, let's go. Let's go, bro." So, we go and um we're there and I'm just there hanging out. He's, you know, selling phones, giving me half the money. >> And he was always um he got into rapping >> a couple years before that. He used to rap for his gang. >> Okay. >> So, even after he quit the gang, he just started, you know, rapping for fun. >> And I grew up on hip-hop, right? just I like cuz around them, you know, it was like Death Row Records, Tupac, Westside Connection, a lot of, you know, gang affiliated kind of hip-hop, but I I lean more towards lyrical hip-hop. So, hip-hop in general, I loved. >> Yeah. >> You know, you grow up on the streets, even if you're not affiliated, it's the voice of the streets. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, he used to have this CD with a Tupac instrumentals, like his best instrumentals, like 12 of them, and it would play one for 30 seconds and switch to the next one for 30 seconds. >> So, different instrumentals would just switch. So, we're driving home from Riverside and every day he freestyle, >> freestyle every day. One day he's like, "Rod, give it a shot." And I was just like, "Nah, dude. I ain't doing this." He's all, "You love hiphop. You grew up on it. Try it." And I was like, >> "No, dude." And he would not leave me alone. I'm like, "Fine, fine." And I'll never forget my first bar. I was so dumb. And I was like, "I'm psycho." Like my friend Michael. [laughter] And my friend Mike heard about it. He's like, "Why you dissing me, dude?" I'm like, "I don't know." I had something to say something psycho rhyed with Michael. I don't know. But with that one bar, I'm like, "This is fun." >> Yeah. >> And I'm like, "Hey, Victor, put the CD again." He's like, "All right, let's go." So every day from Riverside, which is like a 45minute drive, we're freestyling. >> And I'm practicing. And again, when you don't feel value, I'm like, "I'm actually good at something." >> Cuz growing up, I mean, >> I'll be honest, like I wasn't the smartest kid, not the most athletic. So it's like not smart enough for the nerds, you know, not athletic enough for the jocks. Like I I couldn't fit in anywhere. >> So I felt like I'm not good at anything. And I felt like I'm good at this. I'm, "Okay, this is cool." So, I'm getting into hip-hop more. And my brother says, "We're driving home one day and this is a kind of a pivot in a pivot." He goes, "We're going to battle today." And I'm like, "No, heck no. Like, I can't battle you, dude. You just smoke me." >> I'm don't want to do it. And he starts dissing me. >> He's all you going to sit there and take that? And I'm like, >> "Yeah." And he just kept going. I'm like, "Okay, let's go." So, I went back and I'm just getting smoked day in and day out >> till one day we're back and forth, back and forth. He hits a Tupac beat, I hit a beat, he hits one, I hit one. I wasn't backing down and we finished the whole CD battling. And I'm like, I knew I didn't win, but the fact I held my own. >> Yeah. >> I'm like, I have value. >> And even my brother's like, "Dude, you got something. Not just cuz you're my little bro. I think you got something." >> So, okay. So, we start battling and right and then one day we go to the Irvine Spectrum and hip-hop started blowing up cuz 8 Mile came out. >> Okay. >> So, I was I was rapping before 8 Mile. I was I don't even think we talked about 8 Mile the other day, but when you're talking any anytime anybody goes, "Oh yeah, I battle wrapped." I'm like, "That's exactly where my mind goes." And like that that movie is just unbelievable. >> Incredible. So I'm already into hip-hop. I'm listening to more lyrical stuff. I'm writing. I'm freestyling, practicing, battling. 8 Mile comes out and I lose my mind and I get a thousand times more into hip-hop. And at that time like people in general because of 8 mile like you know the general population was just into hip-hop and battling specifically. So you can go like at that time you can go to the block you can go to Irvine Spectrum you can go [clears throat] to a house party and people are just battling or freestyling really just blew it up. It was so awesome >> and went to the Irvine Spectrum and there was a like a circle a cipher of kids freestyling. I'm like oh damn. I told Victor, hey let's go check this out. So we go in my brother sits there. He's like hey um which one of you hear battles? And this one kid was smoking a cigarette with a fro. He's all like, "I do. I'm the best one here." And my brother's like, "Oh yeah." He's all my little brother's going to battle you. And I'm like, "What are you doing, dude?" My Victor, you didn't tell me you're going to do this. He just threw me into the furnace, man. And I'm like, >> "Okay, let's go." And I went in and I just I can't say it was the best verse, but again, it's like, I'm holding my own. I'm getting better. And afterwards, you could tell the kid was nervous. And then security comes, "What you guys doing?" And they broke it up. And I'm like, "Okay, that was my first battle that wasn't my brother." >> And at that point, it's like, "Let's go." >> Everywhere I went, if someone wrapped, I'd be like, "You battle? Yeah, let's go." And it was like all the rage from not feeling value, from my brother dying, from my dad, you know, in that messed up relationship. It was like, "Here's the funnel." And again, I was never a violent person, but in this battle, I will unleash on you. Like, I will lyrically decapitate you, and this is going to make me feel better. And for the moment it did what you will eventually get to where it didn't. But yeah, man. I remember even um oh I had I lived in a my friend lived in a neighborhood in in Anaheim on west side Anaheim and um I had like a hip-hop shirt and um you know walking by with him and there the cholos in the neighborhood are like that fool don't know hip-hop >> and again like I wasn't shy anymore. I used to be shy you know really afraid. I'm like man I don't care if they shoot me. I wouldn't want up to them. I'm like who's the best here? And I learned from my brother. Oh I am. My name's Hershey. I'm a Hershey. Let's go. Let's I'll battle you right now. Everyone's like oh what? And at that point, I was good. I smoked him. >> And it's not to like be prideful, but like I smoked this guy. And then even his own friends were like, "Dude, you're good. What's your name?" And you know, I dabbed them all up and they started telling everyone about me, "Hey, battle rod, battle rod." And he started going like on this tear going through people, man. So, >> it was the first time in my life I felt confident in something like I'm actually not self-proclaimed like like a self-proclaimed like specialist. Like people are telling me, you know, that I'm good. Yeah. You know, I'm not like, "Yo, I'm sick." cuz I met a lot of rappers like I get down they freestyle like you got some work to do bro [laughter] you know but people like >> there's a lot of people that have called themselves the best rapper of all time right >> yeah don't don't make me go down that road J [laughter] anyways >> any but yeah man you know but it's like again I knew I wasn't we talked about this I was like okay I'm not at like a nause or an Eminem like you know most deaf like black thought like I'm not at that level clearly but I'm not trash either >> you know I'm able to hold my own and you know it was a definitely a big part of my life that added value to me and just >> to learn. There was a friend of mine that I met, he was a excellent rapper, like he's professional status. His name was Manifest and he kind of took me under his wing. >> And he started showing me like cuz I was losing battles for a bit. He's all, what' you say? And I said X, Y, and Z. Dude, no wonder. Like, >> say it like this, control the crowd, you know, dumb it down if you have to. And I'm like, yeah, okay. And I'm I started winning my manifest. I'm winning battles. He's like, okay. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it was just an excellent time for me. Did Did you have a name that you went under? >> Yeah. Here's our here's the crazy part. I love to say like we play checkers, God plays chess. Okay. >> So, my rap name was Azrael. >> So, Azrael was um in certain mythologies and in certain um like cultic religions, it's the name of a fallen angel. >> An angel. And in one specific story, the one that I heard that intrigued me, it was the name of a fallen angel that when the war happened between Satan and God, >> he didn't want to side with either. >> He felt like like this is dumb. Like, you know, you know what? Yeah, maybe I don't want to submit to God, but Satan, I'm not rocking with you either. Like, I'm doing my thing. And in this, I don't know where the story is now, but in this story, basically >> because of that, God cast him to like hell and said, "Okay, well, you still rebelled. Like, doesn't matter. There's no neutral." But Satan said, "Hey, you didn't rock with me." >> Yeah. get out of here. So he was cursed to just wander the earth by himself for his whole life. >> And I just kind of felt that growing up like when everything happened with my brother and my dad because I had a Catholic faith at least like you know I can always say I was a theist. >> I was never an atheist. >> Okay. >> Agnostic through many points in my life. But I felt like my life was so bad. There's no way someone isn't screwing me over right now. That's how I felt at the time. >> So when I heard this story I related like yeah like I'm not going to go oh hell Satan and get all like you know satanic with it. But, you know, I left my Catholic faith. I'm all I don't I don't think God likes me too much. Yeah. So, I connected with this character. So, was Azrael. And the funny thing was when I got into scripture and the Bible, and I'm a big like what do Hebrew names mean, right? I'm big into that. >> And I'm reading the Old Testament one day in Chronicles and I see the name Azrael. And I'm like, >> what? That was my rap name. I didn't know it was in the Bible. And I looked up the Hebrew definition and it means the Lord is my help. >> The Lord is my help. >> Oh, dude. I'm like, >> all those years trying to earn value in rap battles and freestyles or anything else I did, it was a child crying for help. That kid who that kid who pointed his buried his face in comic books, begging for a savior, begging for help. Like, that's who I really was underneath Mr. Tough Guy Battler. So, when I found that out, I was like, Lord, you had this plan the whole time. >> Wow. >> So incredible. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh. So, you're you're battling, you're you're moving up, you're doing these different things. Um, I mean, how long is that season of your your life? How long are you like battling and and making that like what your your kind of aim is? >> I'd say a solid two years. >> Okay. >> From like 18 to 20. >> Yeah. >> 18 to 20 is when it all, you know, was really just coming about when hip-hop was my religion, man. It really was. Like, I would quote rappers like it was scripture. M >> and I remember even when I got saved, one person, uh, Brother Frank, who was discipling me, he would say things that would make me think of a rap song that kind of connected to the Bible. And I would just quote, "Oh, 50 Cent said this. Eminem said this. N said this." >> I never forget he looked at me and said, "I can't wait till the day you quote scripture like that." >> And I didn't know what he meant, but now that I'm really into the Bible, I'm like, I get it. >> I get it. >> But yeah, so it was um two years. It was my religion. It was my identity, you know, and it was my facade to cover that broken child inside. And I think I mentioned this when we spoke. Unfortunately, sometimes like the rap game leads to the drug game. >> And you know, you meet people you normally wouldn't meet. You know, when you're not the cool kid and you don't have friends, the drug connect isn't there. >> You know, if you're I I mean, I had friends like really tight-knit group, but we weren't we weren't really like that. I started meeting people that were, you know, drug connects and hanging out with certain crowds and I chill with them and say, "Hey, man, I only drink 40s and smoke weed. I'll never do anything else." Yeah. >> They're like, "Okay." And one day they're like, "Oh, here's the yay. Here's the cocaine." And I'm like, dude, no. I only stick to this, but you stick around stick around it long enough, you're going to succumb. >> The bad company corrupts the good morals. >> Just about to say beat me to it. >> I my there's another verse in in Proverbs that I love. The same same moral, but different phrasing. And I I I love this so much, but it says um he who wants to be a fool, >> hang with fools, >> and he who wants to be wise, >> hang with the wise. >> And it's like, oh my gosh, dude. stated. I love it. >> Yeah. And it's truthful. And it's funny when you read things like that, like you don't have to be a Christian to know that's true. >> Yeah. >> It's just the basics of life, man. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, >> so those basics were shown true in your life >> in that moment. >> And so, in that moment, you end up getting into some some other drugs. >> Yeah. I started getting heavy into cocaine >> because I had just people who have always had it on them. Yeah. >> So, I'm doing that. And, you know, when you're young, >> there's this just myth that you're invincible. You know, you can bust all nighters. Like I had bust all nighters like you know drinking 40 smoking weed doing cocaine sometimes popping pain pills all at once just mixing all that up >> sleeping for two hours you wake up and you feel like nothing happened. Yeah. >> You know that's why even the Bible says your youth is vanity >> like you know you're strong for a moment but it's fleeting >> and I'm thinking it's always going to be this way. >> Yeah. >> Well, there's a quote that always stuck with me. Um have you seen the movie Vanilla Sky with Tom Cruz? >> No. >> There's there's a quote it's an interesting movie. Okay. There's a quote in this movie. He says, "Isn't that what being young is all about? thinking you're the one young person that isn't going to get old. Like, and it's and so true. Like, you just think you're invincible. >> And ultimately, what I take that quote as you're never going to pay the consequences for your actions, >> you know, like you can party up and you'll be fine. >> You can not educate yourself or build up financially and you'll be fine. There's always tomorrow. >> And that's like the lie of I think our youth, >> right? And that's what I believe that party up thinking there's not going to be any damage. And here's the scary part. By the time I was 21, 22, I realized I stopped rapping completely. >> I didn't even realize this it was happening. I stopped freestyling and when people wanted to battle, I wasn't even interested anymore. And then like one time there was a party and that neighborhood where I won people over, they told everyone, "Rod's coming. Azrael's coming. Azrael's coming." And my homies were going and they were like, "Hey, Rod, you know, go." And then I had some friends were like, "Hey, dude. We got the Yay." Oh, for reals? Yeah, dude. We got a big old bag. >> And I just called my friends, "Hey, you guys go. You guys battle. You guys freestyle. I'm go over here." They're like, "What?" like, "Yeah, dude. I'm party up. You guys go." They were like, "Okay, well, go, dude, but they're waiting for you." I'm like, "No, no, I'm going to go do this thing. I'm going to go with the connect." And I was over there and I remember being depressed like, "I'm here and I know I should be there." Kind of like the tattoo you explained to me about like you're chained to the ground. You're not flying, you're just floating. >> Yeah. >> Just like that, man. I was in there like, >> "Yeah, I'm high. I'm with the connect. I'm partying over here, >> but I should be flying over there. >> I I I What am I doing here?" But yet I couldn't break the chain. >> Yeah. >> I knew I'm like Rod, you can get the Yay anytime. Go battle, dude. Go make a name for yourself. >> But I just couldn't leave. And I just wanted to be there. >> Wow. >> And that's when I got scared. And at that point, I kind of gave up on myself >> and said, I'm going to go on here. >> And at that point, I felt I'm not even good at rap. >> I'm not disciplined enough to be a rapper. Like, you know what? If I want to be good at anything, I went back to self-destruction. >> Not cuts, but substances this time. Yeah. Like I'mma go all in here and I want everyone to know that I am the craziest, you know, drug user that there is in town. Like when Rod drinks, all he drinks. When he does, yay. He does all the yay. Like he'll smoke up all the weed. Like >> that's Rod. Which is a dumb way to think, but I wanted to be good at something. >> Yeah. >> So I gave up on hip-hop at that point in my life. And I gave up on myself completely >> and went through a downward spiral, man. >> It was bad. >> And then to kind of fast forward and skip a a couple crazy moments. >> Yeah. Um, we start going to Hollywood. You know, Hollywood is scandalous, man. Like, when I was a kid, you think, "Oh, that's where the movie stars are. It's all pretty." And the first night they took me out there, I was like, >> "This place is dirty. This is even I'm secular, man. Like, I'm not Christian." And I'm like, "This is even filthy for me." >> Yeah. >> And they're like, "Oh, let's just go. We can find drugs." And we found this guy like selling ecstasy on the street. Ecstasy. Like, who wants ecstasy? Like, with no shame. I'm like, "Dang, it's crazy like that out here." >> Wow. >> And I went up and I'm like, "I'll take some." And he was selling half price. So, I got a big old bag and me and the homies, you know, we got down on it, got crazy. I'd call the guy up again. I'm like, "You got more?" And I used to take the train in the subway to Hollywood just to get more bags from this guy and just got into ecstasy. And that is one of the heaviest drugs. And >> yeah, >> it started messing me up. After one weekend, I just felt funny and I felt like my brain was on fire. Like I was heating up >> and it wasn't [clears throat] like a fever. It just I can't explain it, but it felt like my brain was hot and I just felt weird. I started having anxiety attacks >> and I kind of chilled out on drugs for a bit >> and then um my Yay connect was like, "Hey, let's go to Huntington Beach." You know, I got some Yay. We'll get in the car, go to the beach. Sure. And we started doing some yay and I was like, >> "This doesn't taste like yay." I'm this cut, dude. He's like, "No, no, it's good." I'm like, "This tastes cut." >> He's like, "No, no, but me being the smart one, let me just do some more." >> We finished the bag and I felt like my heart was going to pop out of my chest. And I'm like, "Am I having a heart attack or is this an anxiety attack?" Guys, I don't feel good. And they're like, "Dude, let's go to the beach." I am not going, dude. Let's go to the hospital, dude. They're like, "No, no, we'll go to the other homies house." So, we went to one of my other friends house. Then I drank a 40 beer calm you me down. So, I drank this 40 and I was like, "Guys, I'm not feeling it. I need to go to the hospital." And then they took me, they dropped me off. And the doctor checked my levels and he's like, "Look, dude, you're not going to die, but a little more and that would have been it for you. You would have been done. Like, you didn't overdose." He said, "You're this close to overdosing, man." He's also like, "You came in on time. You need to stop." So after that, I think something broke in my brain. To this day, I still feel affected by it. >> I started having mass anxiety and depression. And I don't mean like, oh, I'm sad or oh, I'm kind of anxious. Like I'm talking I feel like my heart's going to jump out of my chest. >> And when I'm depressed, I feel like >> everything's off. Like I my chemicals, something up here is low. Like there's something broken in me. >> And that messed me up. So I quit drugs >> and went into a deeper depression. And then after that, I just stuck to alcohol because it was the only substance that I could do. Yeah. >> So, I'm like, "This is the only one I can enjoy and feel good about. It's the only thing I can wallow my sorrows in." >> Yeah. >> I'm I'm I'm a drunk. And likewise, like, >> well, I'm going to be the best drunk there is. >> Yeah. >> And I just went into alcohol. Was in a previous relationship at that time and just, you know, put that person through hell. And, you know, like it was just not a good place to be. And, >> you know, even putting some of my friends through hell with just my alcoholism. I'd live with friends and then I'd just quit job just cuz I wanted to drink. >> I don't want to go to work today. I want to get drunk. Yeah. >> And they'd have to cover me for the rent. >> Yeah. >> You know, and and in that previous relationship I was in, it was like, you know, go getting drunk like I'm not paying the rent this month because I don't want to work. >> Yeah. >> You know, and that was just Oh, it was just a toxic relationship to that person wasn't the same either. Like, >> you know what I mean? Just it just >> it was just bad. Whatever kind of relationship I had, it was just horrible. >> And I was just an alcoholic. And that's all I wanted in my life was alcohol. >> Yeah. Pretty. That's a That's a All I wanted in my life was alcohol in a a period after that sentence, right? >> Mhm. >> And in my mind, it's like again, this is one of those moments where now we're sitting here Christians and like how does how does that change happen? >> Oh man. >> Because that sounds like a moment that it's like this is a true statement about myself. All I wanted was alcohol and nothing was going to get in the way of that. And >> good call out by the way. Good call out. >> That's what it was at that time. >> So what happened? >> Okay. So >> that because that's a that's a pivot or die sentence. That is a and and that is a choice, right? And this is the whole concept of pivot or die is that there's there's always these crossroad moments where there's a choice >> where there's I can either choose to curl up in a ball on the floor and to self-medicate and to self harm and to do these things until I die and I'm cool with that >> and that's where I want to be. >> Yep. >> Or I could pivot and figure something else out. Right. And there's there's this alternative route that is available. And so, um, I mean, let let's let's go there. What what ends up happening? >> Well, here's the funny thing. Before we even get to the Lord Saving Me, I have a resurgence in hip-hop. >> Really? >> So, my my buddies who they were rapping and battling, too. They kept going and they just kept getting light years better. And at one point, I knew like >> they would smoke me right now. They're so good cuz they didn't stop. They kept practicing their craft. And you know, I'd still go over them. They were like family to me. These guys were like my brothers and still are to this day. I love those guys. >> And you know, they they would uh come over and they would just be writing and freestyling. And then they lived in a a little uh studio apartment in Fullerton. >> And the neighbor, the like the one with the wall right behind that studio. We'd always hear them playing beats. And then one day, I guess they met the neighbor and he was a rapper too and a producer. >> So him and his crew meet like us and our crew and we just all meet up and we're just, you know, meeting up. They're freestyling. you know, no one's battling. It's all fun and they're drinking and I'm just there >> and they were making a song about drinking, right? And my homie Dell was like, "Hey, Ra, dude, you should write again." I'm like, "Dell, >> you that's years ago." I'm like >> 25 maybe. You know, it's been like three, four years maybe since I really dedicated myself. Well, dude, those hip-hop days are over. I done screwed that up. And he's like, "Rod, give it a shot, man. You still got a little something in you." Well, you know what? D for you. I'll do it, man. And I wrote a verse and I came back the next day and they're doing the song and my homie D was like, "Hey, Rod wrote something." They were like, "Oh, what?" And even my homie James was like, "Rod, you wrote again?" I'm like, "Yeah." And I went in and everyone was like, "What?" And the people we just met were like, "Bro, you get down. >> Value comes back." >> Like, okay. So, I started um writing more. And then that part of my hip-hop career, >> I reached out to my friend Manifest. I stopped talking to him for years. >> Yeah. >> And I told him, "Hey, dude, I kind of want to get back in. I want you to, you know, I want to be under your wing again. And he was just brutally honest, which I appreciated. He's like, "Bro, I try to get you to a level, but every time I did, you go drink." Every time I try to do something, you just go to the connect, man. It's like I just kind of gave up on you. He's But if you're really serious >> this time, I don't care about battling. I want you to record because there's no money in battling. There is, but not as much as making music. >> He's all, "Let's do this the right way, but if you ever come to a recording session or a writing session drunk, I smell an ounce of alcohol on you. I'm done with you." I said, "Okay, let's word. Let's do it. >> So, I was still drinking, but I was disciplined enough to obey his rules. >> Drink when you were going to record with him. >> Yeah. So, you know, so I was disciplined enough to do that and I dropped a CD, you know, I made like a six song CD and did that >> and you know, we started doing shows in Orange County. We did one in Fullerton, did one in Costa Mesa, like Oak like, "Oh, dang. This I feel a resurgence, but I was still an alcoholic though. >> I wasn't free. I was still addicted and I still feel like I couldn't spread my wings." Yeah. And kind of like um Tim Falner was saying at the other podcast, like, >> okay, I got what I wanted. I got the respect of my peers. >> I'm getting my name out there again. I got my hip-hop thing going. Like this is what I've always wanted, you know? Like this is it. But why am I not happy? >> Why do I not feel fulfilled? Why do like that statement, why do I still just want alcohol? >> Yeah. >> No matter how good a show we did and people are like, "Yo, you killed it. Why is that not enough?" And I have to go to the bottle. >> And it was just getting [clears throat] worse and worse and worse. And then the breaking point was I was that relationship I was in that very very toxic relationship >> you know it was just a lot of back and forth and it even got like physically violent like I never put my hands on a woman but one time you know she even punched me and it's like >> and when I told my mom that my mom told me she's a Miho like >> when physical violence comes into play there's no more respect >> she's you need to get out of that relationship >> and then um I didn't still you know still crazy to the point >> she was just done with me >> you know and I was essentially done with her too and then she just kicked me out. She's all you're out. And I was like, in my head, I thought freedom >> now. I'm not tied to a relationship. I could do whatever I want now, for sure. >> And then I couldn't find a place to live. I was bouncing from friend's house to friend's house. I was sleeping in my car. I just I noticed like what's going on? Like I can't have consistency. It was kind of scaring me in that moment. And in the background while this is happening, my brother Victor, this the brother who survived, who got me into rap, he became a Christian. >> Wow. >> So he would preach to me for years. And I would argue with him. And one of my biggest arguments was, "Victor, you saw everything we went through and you're going to tell me God loves us? Are you serious? Cuz my brother, he could come on here and give a story himself. Crazy story. So you're going to tell me everything you went through, I went through. Our older brother is dead and you're going to tell me God is love. Like get out of here, bro." So like, I don't want to hear it. >> So he's in the background just sending me texts, calling me, inviting me to church, and I'm like, "Don't want to hear it. Don't want to hear it." >> And then one pivot moment that broke me and led me to the Lord >> that humbled me was I was um I was in my car. I was homeless. I went to buy a 40 ounce and I'm just It's around Christmas. Yeah. >> And it's raining and I'm driving around and I'm drunk and I'm seeing Christmas lights and it was like a core memory like just flash. Have you seen the movie Inside Out? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. You know those core memories that just kind of come up? It was like that. >> So it brought back a memory that I forgotten about. There was one Christmas Eve when I was a kid. >> My I think my older brothers were out with their gangs and it was just me and my mom >> and it was Christmas Eve. It was raining. We were homeless and we're driving around trying to find a place to live and stay for the night on Christmas Eve. >> And when I was driving, it was like core memory. She was like, >> it brought me back to that moment. I parked the car and I wept >> and I thought nothing's ever going to change. >> This is my life. >> This is going to be the cycle that's going to happen over and over again and there's no hope. And >> yeah. >> Wow. >> Exactly. >> So that's that's this breaking point that you get to. >> Yeah. I was just I wanted I I wanted to kill myself. Like I was hoping I could drink myself and get liver cancer. I was done. >> This cycle will not break. >> I'm a still scared little child and nothing is fixing itself. And I think what scared me the most is all those alcoholic violent people I grew up around that I became one of them. >> That's what that's what scared me >> that I got so deep in the cycle I I became what I hated, >> you know, and I was just broken. And that I don't know if it was that weekend, but it was soon after that I went to my friend Dell's house and um it was a Saturday and I was broken. That day I remember I went back to the previous relationship >> trying to fix it. Like, oh, I promise I'll I'm not going to drink again. I'm done. >> But she was just like, "You say this all the time." Yeah. >> Like this time you're done done. >> And the fact she was like, "Oh, you're done done." It was like >> it wasn't even so much her to be honest. And that's not even to insult her, right? But it was like it wasn't her. I think I wanted to prove to myself that I could fix something and break the cycle. >> But when she was done with me, it's like, "Oh no, I'm breaking relationships now." >> Like everything's falling apart. >> So I go to my friend Dell's house that day when I realized I can't fix this. I can't fix my life. I can't fix relationships. >> And my friend Dell was like, "Hey dude, we got a show coming up. You know, do you want to be a part of it? We know you're going through a lot." >> Well, yeah. Well, sign me up for the show. Like, let's do that. >> And I go to the porch of his apartment and I'm writing and I'm like, "This doesn't make me happy." >> Which scared me because I love hip-hop. >> Yeah. A mama put on some music. Didn't make me happy because I love the music I listen to. >> Mom, they had 40s in the fridge. I'm like, "Hey, I'm going to get a 40." Yeah, Rod, go for it. I took a sip. I felt like throwing up. >> And for an alcoholic, that's strange. >> Yeah. >> I'm like, "I'm scared. What is happening to me?" I put the beer back there like, "What's up with you?" And I'm like, "I don't know, man." And I'm sitting there and my brother Victor calls me. He's, "Hey, bro. Um, I talked to some I talked to the church that you don't have a place to live. There's a family right there on Pacific in Magnolia. you know, they um they have a little shack they built outside the apartment. Literal like foam walls, man. Like like plastic roof, like shack shack. So I told them, you know, you're looking for a place to live. They built it. 75 bucks a month, man. I'm like, I can afford that. I'm in, bro. So I go, I meet the family. And they just said, hey, man, you're more than welcome. One rule, you don't drink here. I'm like, deal. I can respect the house. >> I thank my brother for going in the house. I sleep in the shack that night. I wake up that Sunday morning. It's January 24th, 2010. And I go have breakfast with my friend Dell and just something in me. We're having breakfast at McDonald's. I'm like, "Hey, Dell, I'm gonna cut back on drinking for a while." So, for reals, I'm like, "Yeah, dude. I think it's just not it's messing me up, dude. You know, I'm going to chill for a bit." So, good for you, Rob. Good for you, dude. Yeah, for sure, man. He's all like, "That's that's what's up. Good for you." Finish breakfast and then I'm go back to the shack. My brother Victor texts me. He's like, "Why don't you come to church?" >> I'm like, "Nah, dude. Nah." And then he calls me and he's like, >> "Bro, come to church, man. I'm a Christian and I've been praying for you." that family that let you in, they're Christians. Out of respect for that family, just come tonight and show them you're trying, dude. Well, you know what? I can do that. They gave me a shot. Better than my better than my car, man. I at least have even if it's a floor, I have my little space. >> Yeah. >> I went to church that night. >> I'm in the back row and I'm with my brother and the preacher's preaching and he's just kind of the sound's kind of drowning out. You're not even paying attention. >> And I'm just sitting there and I'm like, man, I kind of want to just get out. I'm What am I going to do after service? Oh, I'm 7-Eleven right up the street. I pass. I'm going to go buy a 40 oz or two, you know, maybe >> get drunk in the car and then kind of get something some breath freshener and then so sneak in the house. Like I'm already breaking the rules in my mind. >> And I again I I felt what I felt in the car. Like I can't break the cycle. >> I can't break it. And I'm in tears and I'm broken. And my brother's like, "What's wrong?" I'm like, "Dude, let's go outside." Like I ain't trying to talk to no preacher, no deacon. I'm like, "Let's go outside." And he went and I'm like, "Victor, I'm broken. I can't fix myself." >> And he's like, "Give Jesus a chance. let's give Jesus a chance. And I'm like, bro, I told you don't bring that, you know, religion stuff to me. >> And I almost feel it was the Holy Spirit or like the anger [clears throat] of the Lord that kind of shook me. My brother said, you know what? You know what? Let me tell you something right now. I'm tired of arguing with you. He said, >> if Jesus is real and you give him a chance right now, you'll never be the same. I promise you, I won't have to invite you back to church. He can fix your life. He fixed me, he can fix you. And if he's not real, I got nothing to say. I'll never invite you to church. But give Jesus a chance right now. And if it doesn't work out for you, I'm a fool. I'll never invite you to church, but give him a chance. And I broke and said, "Let's do this." I want to cry right now, honestly, because it was such a pivot moment in my life where the cycle did break. And my hero finally came to save me. >> You know, and I did the Lord's Prayer >> and very confused, kind of like Tim Faulner, like I don't I don't know what this means. >> Yeah. I I don't know what just happened, but where I relate to Tim Felner is that all I knew it was like, have you seen the movie Inception? >> Yeah. Yeah. I love that movie. >> Love that movie. One of Nolan's best. >> It felt like Inception. I felt like this this truth that Jesus is the son of God and is God and came to save me was implanted or incepted in my brain. Like the little thing spun like an inception. >> And you couldn't convince me otherwise. >> I didn't know any Bible verses at that point in my life. I just knew that was true. And I felt the Holy Spirit wash over me. >> Wow. >> And I was confused. Still angry and confused. Like I'm still trying to fix my life, still trying to do things. And it was just like >> there was just a peace that came over me. And that was the pivot moment, man. And from then on, like >> I I could take up hours, but just a shotgun blast of information. I mean, even like financially, I fixed my life. I started paying off my debts. >> Um, you know, I started being more responsible with my money. Educationally, I'm a high school dropout. I went to American Career College. I got my GED. >> Wow. for first attempt at it. I got my medical billing certificate, got my foot in the door for healthcare, you know, and like started fixing my life career-wise, you know, obvious quit drinking one day. >> Yeah. >> One day quit drinking, >> which is I mean, was that the day? >> January 24th, 2010, I quit drinking that day >> and it was like a >> like that. And I know there's stories. I've met plenty of Christians where it's been a progress. Everyone's story is different. The Holy Spirit works differently in different people. But in that night, I was done. I remember the week after I went to the the rap crew's house to tell them I'm Christian now >> and I'm like I won't be rapping with you guys anymore. >> They were mad disappointed. So some of them kind of angry because they did invest into me. Some of them financially help me with the CDs and everything. And I even said, "If you guys want your money back, I'll pay it. Give me some time. I'll pay you back." And they're like, "No, it's cool. Whatever." And you know, they were just unhappy because I'd be the one bringing the 40s and the drinks and, you know, talking about what show we're going to do. And I was just there because I love them. Like they're my brothers, man. and they looked out for me. You know, I felt like I can honestly say I believe, it might sound foolish, but I think even God sent those people and even hiphop into my life so I wouldn't lose my mind. >> Yeah. >> To stabilize me a bit without him, you know, >> and you know, I was I still go to see them and I remember one friend was just so mad that I wasn't the old Rod >> and I used to love Coronas. That was my favorite beer. Okay. >> And we're on the couch. We're playing like Street Fighter. We're playing video games. He opens a Coron. So, here you go, Rod. Puts it on my lap and everyone's just staring at me. >> I pick it up. I say, "Hey, man. No, thank you. And I put it aside and everyone's jaws dropped like whoa, what? >> Like they couldn't believe it. I almost couldn't believe it. Yeah. >> You know, so that part was a big pivot moment. >> And I know for them at one point I was going to um I said I was going to go see their shows to support them because they're my boys. >> And one night a friend from church said, "Hey, we got a vigil. We're going to stay up one night, read the Bible, and pray." And it was the same night they had their show. And I'm like, "Well, I gave my word to my boys, so I'm going to go with my boys." >> But the Holy Spirit spoke to me like, "You're either with me or you're against me." You know, you can't sit. We talked about this. You can't sit at the table with demons, with ba and with God. >> Yeah. >> And it was like I hit him. My homie said, "Guys, I can't go." I'm like, "Why am I? Because I'm done. I'm done with hip-hop." >> And they were just upset. And I had a, you know, falling out with a lot of them for years. >> And I'm talking to a lot of them again now, actually. Wow. >> Which is kind of cool. And I get to preach to them. They kind of hear me out now. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah, man. So, relationship wise improved. >> Did Did they I'm just curious. Did did those guys get to hear the story of your transformation or was it at that time kind of like my right hand's causing me to stumble and I'm just cutting it off >> a little bit. At first they were getting the story cuz I'm trying to I don't know how to preach or to share. But I mean they witnessed with their own eyes knives the change in me. Yeah. >> But almost like they didn't want to. So then it was like >> I got to do this man. Like if I was finding like success some people like I've heard stories they get saved. They preach to their homies and all their homies get saved. That didn't happen to me. >> [laughter] >> They're like somewhere skeptical, somewhat happy for me, but no one was like, "Hey, let me do that what you're doing." So, I was like, >> "Got to do this to protect my spiritual life." >> Wow. >> So, yeah, man. And it's been a journey since then. It's like >> I I can confess right now after everything I've been through, there's still parts of me that are broken. >> I'm still broken, but >> I have a hope now >> because my hero came to save me. My superhero is real. His name is Jesus. And he came to save me. And he promised me something that say I want to cry now because I just been through a lot. But I'm also crying because I know there's a day that the Bible says there will be no more tears. >> God promises me a day. Rod, you're not going to cry anymore. >> I will wipe all tears from your eyes. >> And that gives me joy. So even when I'm broken, it's a reminder of the promise that's coming. >> You know, so it's been a struggle. It's been a journey. >> But God's promises, they don't fail. And they always make me just >> look to the future, man. There's something waiting for me. And he doesn't lie to me. He's the real hero, >> you know. So, it's been a journey in this walk, but wouldn't have it any other way. >> Wow. >> I always say my my worst day in the Lord >> obliterates my best day in the world. >> Smokes it. Like I'd rather, you know, I'd rather be what it says in the Psalms, a doorkeeper in the house of the Lord than with the tents of the wicked. >> Yeah. >> You know, I'd rather do that. I'd rather be that lowest level layman Christian and just know that I have a God that loves me and will never ever ever forsake me. >> Wow. You know, so it's been such a beautiful pivot. Yeah. >> In this life in Christ, man. And and to even be here and meet other brothers we just met. Yeah. >> But because but I already love you because we have the same spirit. You know what I'm saying? And >> to be here together and just tell whoever's listening like Jesus loves you. He changed me. He can change you. He can help us in our struggles or even your struggle, you know, with everything you went through with Douggee. You know what I mean? And to see even when you told me about Douggee >> and I was just so impressed to see a hopeful look in your eyes through the process, man. Like you encouraged me. M >> like I'll be honest, I feel like I'm very broken like I say, but with you to just see the hope in your eyes, it just gave me hope and like and we can just share this and share this with the world like >> I'm so privileged to go from battling people trying to decapitate them and you know make a name for myself >> than to just be a broken person but letting this brokenness heal others. >> I'd rather do this man >> easy over battle anyone for sure. Like God showed me as cool as and fun as that was because it was fun. I'm not going to lie. like this is like it's incomparable, man. It's the best. >> Wow. And I mean, even to take what you'd said too of like this this hope of uh of heaven where there is no more tears and all these things, but one thing that just like hits me too, and I know it's going to speak to you as well, is it's like even a step more than that, the word says that that God has kept every tear that we've cried in a bottle. And it's like to get to heaven and like walk down the hallway that's like filled with my tears. It's like there's there's hope. And even with like what we were talking about with with Douggee and all of this, like I um I just have really been trying to to memorize some more scripture recently and I I've been reading through Romans. I think I was telling you about this the other day, but >> um >> Romans 5 verse one says, "Therefore, since we have oh my gosh uh therefore since we have been justified >> by faith >> by faith through our Lord Jesus Christ, we have peace with God." >> Right? And then later on it says, "Not only that, but we rejoice in our suffering, >> knowing that suffering produces endurance, >> and endurance produces character." And then the final one, character produces hope, >> and hope will not put us to shame. >> Come on. >> And I'm just I I don't know, man. I'm I'm I'm with you. We got the same hope. >> Praise God. Amen. Same hope, brother. >> Amazing. >> Same hope. So then I I mean with your story continuing too, you're not doing hip-hop so much anymore. >> No, I like I said that was a right hand I cut off. It was just >> Yeah. >> because it was just >> you know hip-hop is known for being vulgar. And even on my CD I had a song called Dear God. >> And it was basically a verbal middle finger to God to be honest with you. Like blaming him for my fatherlessness, my brother's death, everything we're talking about. Yeah, >> it was like it was almost like my disc to him. My rap disc to him, you know? So, it was brutal. And then once I got saved, I'm like, "Oh man, I feel so bad now." So, I just got all my CDs and I broke them and I threw them in the trash. >> And looking back, I shouldn't have done this. I had a big old hip-hop collection and I told my homies, "Dude, have at it." They were like, "Heck yeah, man. We've been eyeing that one for a while." [laughter] >> I'm like, "Yeah, you guys could have it." Looking back, I was like, "I should have dumped those, too." Like, I'm just like promoting them to listen to it. So, yeah, man. And I mean, I just dumped all my secular CDs and I stopped completely. And we talked about this. I was like, so I started I stopped. I tried to listen to different forms of worship and different things. And there were some good songs out there, great songs, >> but man, like >> I still had that hip-hop itch. >> And looking back, it's like, God, this is how you made me. >> You made me to just fit into that type of culture. >> So, I started looking up different artists, and it's not to throw shade at any of them, so I I don't want to name names to sound bad, but it's like they just weren't my style, >> you know? on I just like man like I want some boom bap I want lyricism you know >> and then um I just went on iTunes looked up Christian hip hop and I saw the name Shyin >> and I thought it said Shaolin like Wu Tang clang 36 chamber Shaolin I'm like wait one of them got saved like >> you know and I was like no Shyin and then I looked it up and it was a song called issues >> I'm okay let me peep let me peep this >> and I think I spit this bar to you the other day he said um it's ironic the sinlessness of Christ is even acknowledged in the Quran by the Islamic prophet Muhammad I'm like who is this dude? Like lyrically, >> you know, this is what I like. The beat was boom bap. Theologically, like I don't know. The Quran talked about his sinlessness. Like wait, what? So I just buy his first two albums, the Solless Christian Project and the Atonement. >> Lose my mind. Bumping those for just days in, days on, in and out. And those albums just like they shaped my Christianity. >> Wow. >> Because I think I mentioned this where I got saved was a Pentecostal church. And um you know they weren't so word heavy. You know there were some good things I learned there and Pentecostal wise we talked about this like I love the unashamed worship the unashamed approach to worship. Like >> I love the fact that >> if worship is on I'm going to lift my hands and I'm going to sing to my God and I don't care who's watching >> because you know and and again this isn't even a dis everyone worships differently but you know I've been to other denominations and other churches to visit and I just feel some sometimes like people are uptight. It's like yo God loves you like he deserves the praise. Let it go. So, I learned a lot of good things, you know, in a sense from that church, but word-wise, >> not so much. And the comic nerd became the Bible nerd. >> Yeah. >> You know, so I'm super into scripture and context. And Shilin's rapping about Spurgeon. I'm like, who's Spersian? And I read Spurgeon. This dude's a beast. You know, Shannon's rapping, he has a song called Expository Preaching. Yeah. And I'm like, what's expository preaching? I'm like, oh, what? And he's bringing up like John MacArthur, John Piper, and I'm like, these guys are awesome. I'm listening to like Alistister Beg and Vodie Balkam. And I'm like, "These guys are legit." Paul Washer, all these guys, you know, so I get really >> Paul Washer, too. Oh my gosh. >> He's the man, dude. [laughter] Well, God is good, but God, he's a vessel for the Lord. Very intense, though. >> Very intense. >> Like I always joke [snorts] like when you listen to Paul Washer sermon, bring put your helmet on cuz it's going to get heavy. >> Burn your TVs. [laughter] >> But he's good though. He loves the Lord, man. And that's something undeniable. >> So yeah, man. So Shilin starts like indoctrinating me indirectly cuz he's talking about like the doctrine of justification which I never knew. And when I start the >> doctrine of the hypothatic he has a so called the hypothetic union. It's like what in the world right? So you're learning your theology from these from this guy >> and I'm reading books off of like recommendations he's making and off of these people. So I just get into like theological books. I get into like, you know, his hip-hop and I get into other kinds of Christian hip-hop, but >> I like different different stuff, but ultimately like lyrical theology like he calls it. I like lyricism. Like you bring it lyrically, man. Like blow my head off with those lyrics, but have a good kind of like I was mentioning earlier about hymns. >> Yeah. >> Have a good theological foundation. Yeah. >> And just I love it, man. And just Christian hip-hop specifically that kind of style all day, man. >> Wow. >> Like, >> have you have you written Christian hip-hop of your own, too? Have you tried to segue into that a little bit? >> Yeah, man. Um kind of pushed into it to be honest. >> Well, I started writing spoken word. >> Okay. >> So, it was 2015, 5 years after I was saved. >> Yeah. >> And me and my wife um we become youth pastors at our church. You know, all the youth love us. They connect with us >> and it's the perfect combo. I mean, maybe we'll get into this a little after this, but my wife was raised in the church and I'm raised in the hood. Yeah. So, it's like we're like that perfect combo. So, she kind of knows the way the church runs. I'm pretty direct, you know, like with my background, a lot of the boys kind of were drawn to me, especially the hip-hop background. >> Yeah. >> So, it was 2015 and they were doing like an open mic night, like a tent show >> and at the church. >> Uh, no, actually at my house in my apartment. Okay. In my driveway, cuz they couldn't do it at the church that weekend for some reason. >> And this was the youth group that was doing this. Okay. >> So, they came to me, the the leader of the youth group came to me and said, "Hey, Rod, can we use your driveway?" Like one, all the youth love you. you know, they love being around you and your wife, Elizabeth, and you know, at the church, they're busy that weekend. Can we just do it in your driveway? I go, "Dude, anything for the Lord? Anything for you guys?" >> And he's like, "Hey, you know what? Um, maybe you should do something." And I'm like, "Nah, man." Like, you know, I'm done. And then, you know, and he turned he walked away and he turned around. He's all, "Seriously, think about it." >> And that second time, I felt like the Lord. >> It felt like God said, "Rod, I want you to write now." >> And I was like, "Oh, man. I'm scared. I haven't written in a while." And, >> you know, I was listening to um, you know, beautiful eulogy. Um, have you heard of propaganda? Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you know, he does spoken word, too. And it was like that was my first introduction to like Christian spoken word, >> propaganda has that one. It's it's not a a Christian spoken word that he does, but I I I remember I was teaching a uh a creative writing class. Okay. Um years ago, and and uh you know, I was co-eing. You met Anaise, who's one of the the other Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um and we were co-eing that class together. She's a fantastic writer of literature. I love poetry and then getting into spoken word and hiphop and all these kind of things. And so I'm I'm sitting here with a group of uh of high school kids and I want to show them spoken words, but spoken words are intense. It's it's almost hard to find a spoken word that is like clean. And truthfully, like I mean with these kids in particular, it was just my conviction that I was like I I'm not going to necessarily bring up the spoken words that are talking about crazy depression and suicidal ideation and all those things, but spoken word is a place where those things come out. Right. But I remember as I was looking, I found uh propaganda has a spoken word called cats. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> I love it. >> And he's talking about racism, >> but he said they're just cats. Right. I don't like cats, >> you know, they I don't like when they come around and all this and he's like doing this whole thing and it was just I loved and there's a beat >> there's a kind of this beat that he's going with on that spoken word but like when you talk about propaganda spoken words I know exactly what you're talking about. >> So so I got a lot of my inspiration from him like oh you can do Christian spoken word and I just wanted to do something different. I think I was just so afraid of being that old Rod. I knew I wasn't but I just didn't want to be that old Rod again. So, I'm I'm gonna do spoken word this time. And, you know, not that I copy propaganda, but he was a lot of my foundation on how to do it the right way because he's elite. He's next level. And kind of like even in my in the secular world, if I'm going to rap like anyone, I'm going to rap like these dudes who are really good. You know what I mean? >> Finding your inspiration for whatever creativity you want to do. It's amazing. I even So, we we talked about the uh The Great Divorce, >> right? CS Lewis. um you were telling me how much you love that book and so I started listening to it and in the beginning of that book in the in the forward the preface that he has um he says this book the idea of it I got from reading an article in a newspaper somewhere >> and he goes I don't know that author's name but this was the some of these concepts he had written >> and if that author ever reads this please like count this as my credit to you. >> Oh man. >> And it it was all the stuff of like um you know that that uh in eternity or in the past that was what this other guy had written that like you like raindrops would tear through your skin because nothing in the past could be altered. That idea came from a different author. >> Ah >> and so C. Lewis totally credits him. And I'm a big fan. I don't know if you've ever read the book by Austin Cleon. Um it's called Steal Like a How to Steal Like an Artist. >> No. It's amazing. And the whole concept is like >> Picasso says art is theft >> and it's like taking and getting inspired from all these guys. So having that list of guys that you're like >> these dudes really inspire me >> and then getting inspired and taking sentences or structures or beats or these different things from them >> and putting them all into the blender of your mind and pressing go with all your inspirations plus your own creativity. something new is gonna come out. Yeah. Right. And so you're saying that propaganda was was uh your your inspiration for some of your spoken words >> specifically for spoken word. Okay. Just because stylistically like he's at that time I felt like in the Christian department the best one doing it. Yeah. >> You know and just by the way just to add to that Eminem said something similar >> really. >> So when he dropped Infinite which is his album before the Slim Shady OP. It's like the one before Dre signed him. Okay. >> Yeah he has the song itself called the title song called Infinite. like his flow is insane. But he was accused of like sounding like Nas on Matic because at that time Nas I told you Matic I think is the best hip-hop album of all time. >> And you know they interviewed him about it years years later he already blew up and he was just he basically said the same thing. He's look like I don't mind listening to Nas. I don't mind listening to Jay-Z. I don't mind listening to this person or that person. You know he's because at the end of the day when it funnels through me it's gonna sound different. >> Yeah. you know, because I am who I am and even if I take stylistically like a flow that Nas has, like my experiences won't reflect his experiences. So, and likewise, like even back then in the world, I listen, you know, like I said, Nas and Eminem were my two biggest, you know, DMX at times, but I could never copy his like grungy voice, you know, but what's it called? But, you know, I would take things and it's true and I noticed when I would write those rhymes, I was like, >> oh, like, yeah, you could hear a bit of Eminem. You could hear some nause in there, you know, but I'm not copying them. No, you know, it's just there's influence. >> So, sorry, bringing it back to propaganda. >> So, I was listening to him and I started listening to um >> I don't know if they do this anymore, but there was this organization called Passion for Christ Movement. Have you heard of them? >> They used they used to do a a yearly spoken word event at Cottonwood Church on Catella Avenue. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And Propaganda I think once one time there like they invite like the big names, but they also give chance to low people. You could like apply online and stuff like that. So I would watch a lot of their stuff and they had so many good poets that blew my mind. So I'm kind of getting into it, getting influenced. So then um I wrote my >> first written piece since I got saved and it was called Puzzle Piece. >> So what h what inspired that was well the whole event with the youth and I'm telling my wife like I don't know what to write and this and that. And then we had a conversation um talking about our past. To this day we always bring up like I'll just say I call her boo. I'm like, "Hey boo, like you know what was it like this or when you when you went through this in the church?" And I'm sure it wasn't easy growing up in the church but dealing with this. She like, "Rod, what was it like >> dealing with all your crazy stuff?" >> And one day around that time, she asked me, she said, "Rod, if you could summarize your life like in a statement >> before Christ and after Christ, >> what would you say it was like?" And the first thing that came to my mind was a box of puzzle pieces, >> right? And as you open them, everything's tore up. >> Nothing is where it should be. You might have a couple pieces stuck together. Yeah. You know, there's like one or two outliers that are like, "Oh, yeah, but that that thing's messed up. That picture doesn't look good." >> And the second I gave my life to Jesus, it's like Jesus became like the centerpiece >> and started putting all the pieces around there. And to this day, every day, he adds another piece >> and the picture makes more sense and more sense. And some parts of the picture I still don't understand, but some parts I'm like, I get that. >> Thank you, Jesus. I get that. Like even the crazy parts of my childhood, like I get that. >> So that piece is just expanding now. And then I thought, that's it. Puzzle piece. And the MC in me was like, okay, puzzle piece. What rhymes with puzzle piece? Like syllabistically, like puzzle piece underneath. I'm like, >> okay, we got something. And then I I was writing and writing. And I'm like, >> I'm in tears. >> Yeah. >> Writing this cuz we mentioned this during our combo. >> I'm going to places I don't want to visit. >> Like, have you heard of NF? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I remember his first album, Mansion. Like, I can relate to that. Like, >> and he talks about each of the rooms in the mansion and these different things. I love that album because that's how I felt when I wrote Puzzle Piece. It's like you're making me go to the basement here. >> Yeah. >> I don't want to go to the basement. We can go to the room. Heck, we can even go to the attic for a bit and come down. I don't want to go to the basement. >> And I had to visit the basement and I'm in tears. And even my wife jokingly was like, "Rod, it's not that deep. Come on." You know? >> And then when I finished it, we drove somewhere. We had to go to the store and I parked. I'm can I do this for you? And I did it and she wept. She's like, "I get it. >> I get it." And then I did it to uh Do you have Ever You heard of Josh Geralts? >> Uh that name is familiar, but he's not one that I've listened to a ton. >> I would recommend him. Excellent music. He's kind of like folk Christian music. He um him and Propaganda did a tour together. >> Really? >> He was on Beautiful Eulogies album actually. Anchor. He's he sings the chorus for Anchor of My Soul. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Great musician, you know. So he has a song called uh Ulysis or based off of the Odyssey. >> Yeah. But he's using the Odyssey as an example of like this life sailing home to Christ, like >> avoiding the sirens that are tempting us, like getting [clears throat] to Christ, right? So, someone on YouTube >> took that song but made it like a p a classic piano instrumental >> and it just went with the poem >> and I performed it that night >> and man, I could tell you, Seth, I felt like some chains broke that night. I was weeping >> and like all the youth were in tears. And it's almost it's kind of funny because I was at a Spanish speaking church. So, we were in charge of kind of like the English youth department. >> Yeah. >> And some of the older like, you know, Hispanics would come and support, but they didn't know what we were saying. >> Even them, >> they were in tears, >> not knowing what I said, and everyone was in weeping. The Holy Spirit just went, sorry, I keep I'm just I talk with my hands a lot. So, yeah, man. And that was just it hit it hit so many people. I felt like it released me. And I remember at the end of the poem, I just turned around and was just weeping, just letting it out. And my wife just came to me. My wife Liz came to me and embraced me and hugged me. >> And then one of the kids got on the mic, one of the youth that the youth that set up the event. >> And he was in tears, too. He's brother's like, >> "We think we know what people go through. We think what people are okay. Like, listen to his story. Look what God did." And like, he was just kind of reiterating everything I said and summarizing the poem. And he was in tears and everyone's in tears. It was like, >> "Holy Spirit explosion, man." >> Wow. >> And since then, >> I've written a couple other pieces. >> I think puzzle piece is my best. >> Yeah. There's one I wrote my wife really loves, but I need my brother-in-law. My brother-in-law Ezekiel was a great musician. He's backed me up on a couple poems like on the piano and sound. I called it Dare to Believe. >> And I talk about that comic book nerd kid. >> Yeah. >> Always looking for heroes >> going through trauma and eventually finding Jesus. >> Wow. >> So my that's that's my wife's favorite. Yeah. You know, which is probably >> either neck and neck or my second favorite. It's up there. But puzzle piece whenever I get asked to do something like like when you ask it's like >> Yeah. I like like for that to be my intro before I do anything else because it glorifies God and you really get to know who I am in that poem. >> So, so I mean we we had talked about this a little bit, but would you would you mind sharing that with us? >> Yeah, I'd love to. >> I I would love that. [laughter] >> Yeah. Now or Okay. Yeah, let's do >> Could we do that? >> Let's do it now. Yeah. If I get a little emotional, you have to excuse me. >> No, no, no. Please. >> All right. >> I could [laughter] you beat box >> to my kids all the time. Yeah. Hey, man. It's something, dude. Okay. A majority of my life, some would say, is an unorganized mess. I like to say it's more like a chaotic car wreck. And my heart was a puzzle piece, soaked in sadness, resentful with the surrounding madness, unaware that the real problem was underneath. The real problem was unbelief. It was unbelief that cut my knees from under me with abundant ease. Grew up in storms of violent environments. Plugging my ears, hoping the thunder ceased. >> I was scrambling to connect the dots. Distraction, the enemy's plot to keep me from the one and only son who gets glory. Yet he was hung and left lonely to guarantee that he knows me or more importantly that I know him. See, when you have access to the creator of creation, organization is secondhand nature. But before I met my perfect salvation, let's take a step back and see where I came from. Born in Tijuana to a young mother and an alcoholic father, which by the way is the perfect equation from a catastrophic outcome. I was too young to ask how come. Nevertheless, my mother and I, we crossed the border with high hopes to start over in the United States of America. But the only thing united was the States of America. I was raised in a divided state of hysteria, blinded by a sinful fate that had me crashing into castle gates, built upon pillars of insecurities and uncertainties that burdened me so fervently for over a third of my life. Where was my father? Why did my brother die? These were things I asked myself on drunken nights. After a while, I stopped asking myself. I started asking Jesus Christ. And you know what else I asked him? Why didn't you do your job right? Why did I feel so belittled and riddled by my history's lack of consistency? When he wrote my life story, I used to think it read like sloppy calligraphy written on top of torn pages that left me scarred both figuratively and literally. But looking back now, it's all so silly to me cuz all I ever had to do was stop and take a listen to what he wanted to whisper to me. And guess what he said on January 24th, 2010? He said what he's always been saying. And he said it again. He simply said, "I love you." That's it. I love you. No detailed descriptions or pointers on how to act like a good Christian. Quite simply, I love you. And the second I open the doors of my heart to receive those words, they powerfully devoured me. You need courage to take on God's love. It's not meant for the cowardly. It's a perfect affection that once fully embraced puts everything into place for its certain connection. >> The cornerstones of my life's picture were suddenly set in stone by the cornerstone of the scriptures. Jesus calmed the storm and reached the weather. Began to put the pieces together. My life still wasn't perfect, but I can clearly see that it's better, but of most importance. And as of now, I faithfully await for the day. I go from a broken box of puzzle pieces to a beautiful canvas painted on by Jesus, the master craftsman, the Holy Spirit, the paintbrush, the father's glory, the paint. Children of God, we will be perfected, glorified saints. And he will be our God and we will be his people living in mansions that make the cyine chapel and St. St. Peter's Cathedral look like a pile of scrap metal covered in dung beatetles. But until then, I'll have to wait, holding on tightly by faith, until he says it's time to see his face. In Jesus name and in the power of the Holy Spirit, I offer God the Father these words for his glory. And for everyone listening, because I don't know your story, but let me tell you something. It doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, what you have or haven't done. Everyone is missing pieces and there's only one person that puts them together and that's Jesus. So de Gloria. [snorts] [snorts] Sorry, man. Don't be sorry. You know, it gets hard to visit that basement, but >> I'll do it for God's glory. I'll do it for him. >> There you go, man. [laughter] Peace. Hope you enjoyed it. >> Thank you for sharing. >> Absolutely, brother. >> I know you had to keep that there, man. It's When God has given somebody the ability to take something so hard and an upbringing that was so difficult and to have the courage to put that into a verse or to put that into a poem um and then to share it, right? There's a lot of those I'm sure that over your life you've written simply for yourself, not to share with anybody, but you're sharing them with us. And so I I just I really appreciate you, man. Thank you for Thank you for sharing your life story with us. Thank you for sharing your art with us and for being vulnerable and um leaving no stone unturned. You know, there's a lot of things that you didn't have to talk about today, but you did. And just like the end of your spoken word right there is the whole purpose is that somebody else realizes that there is somebody that puts these puzzle pieces together. >> Amen. >> And his name is Jesus. >> That's right. That's right. >> And so if you're listening this podcast and you feel like your life is a scattered box of puzzle pieces on the floor with no rhyme or reason, there is a reason. There is somebody that puts those pieces back together and all you got to do is reach out and like that. Oh, holding fast by faith. >> Oh my god, man. Rodrigo, thank you. >> Can I say one thing real quick, >> please? As as I came in, I just think you said God is a master chess player >> and um I looked at the storms in the picture and it just reminded me of the storms I mentioned >> in my poem. >> Yeah. It just reminded me and I was like, "Yep, I'm going to go there in a bit." >> Yeah. >> But, you know, just like that shine, stands fast and shines bright and guides the way. And that's Jesus. >> Come on. There is hope in the midst of crazy uncertainty >> and it's real. And it's real. >> And so, if you're listening and you're there, um, know that we're here for you. That's what our our whole comment section is. Um, and please if you're if you're going through these things, if you can relate to this story, please um don't hesitate to to share a little bit because like like Rodrigo said earlier in this podcast, this is a safe place >> and you're not alone. Um, you've gone through different sets of circumstances, but you're not alone. And and if I may add, just like my brother told me, I didn't want to give Jesus a chance. It was all fake. Or if it wasn't fake, it was >> God is my enemy on the contrary. But that was one day I just >> I did the opposite thing. I did the thing I didn't expect myself to do. >> And I said, I'm going to open my heart and let's see what happens. And that's really all God asked for. >> He doesn't ask for, you know, perfect obedience. He doesn't ask for you to shape yourself up. All he says is just open that heart and let me in. Just give me a chance. I won't fail you. And that's all you need to do. Just give him a chance and he won't fail you. >> Come on, Rodrigo. >> Awesome. Thank you so much for this podcast. >> This is amazing. Thank you so much. >> Come on. We'll see you next time. >> See you next time. Thank you,