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The State News sports reporters discuss all MSU sports.
(Anthony) Thanks to the table with us. My name is Anthony Brinson.
(DeShawn) I'm DeShawn Johnson.
(Thomas) I'm Thomas Cobb
(Anthony) And welcome to the sports roundtable podcast. So MSU football this week, we're planning up against the Rutgers coming off of is it two or three game losing streak? I know we talked about it last week,
(DeShawn) three straight losses looking to reward the fourth straight.
(Anthony) I think they go away the fourth? Or is the drug gonna continue? If you can start us off?
(DeShawn) Okay, so I mean, we've kind of talked about this, how to perform being optimistic versus realistic. I do want to say that this is still one of the more optimistic games that MSU has left on the roster. However, I don't want to be super unrealistic and create some false hope here. We've obviously had a rough season. And I think at this point, Thomas, we kind of alluded to this earlier, for the show, we kind of just started testing out some new things here. There's been a lot of talk around Kane, how they're starting this week, I'm not completely sure the confirmations of it, but I would get behind the idea of it. I mean, no it can is he just has not been performing that well. In the last three games. I got some statistics here, 519 yards and last three games, one touchdown to six interceptions, three of them just in the last name alone against Iowa and that same gaming through sub 20 yards there. We are stuck with this Thomas, I'm not saying that cave house is gonna be the answer to exactly all of our problems. We clearly have a lot of them going process here. But no one's gonna be mad if we start testing them out. I think a lot of different MSU fans have definitely been alluding to the fact that they want to see how they're gonna refer the chance and a bunch of other things like that. So like I said, I'm a bit more optimistic about this game. I'm sure that it's one of the more winnable games. However, I would not be surprised by another loss here and we go for straight. We're bottom in the big 10. And I mean, bottom bottom hole into back, I said a pinch of water may change. We've got a lot of things to figured out this year. So I'm hopeful, but not, not super.
(Thomas) Yeah. And I think that last week, actually gave a lot of fans just kind of a sliver of hope. Because I mean, anyone who watched that game knows that Michigan State should have won if they had taken care of the ball when they needed to. And just, you know a few things here and there. We've been told their way, special teams shank, upon poor return going the other way for a touchdown, or those two plays, in essence, lost in the game again that they should have won. And so I think, I mean, we talked last week about how it was almost worse for them to lose in that sense than to get blown out because it just kind of the fans were dragged in for three quarters and then they were let down for the third straight week. But heading into this game, I think that Michigan State definitely has a chance to win. They're coming off of a bye week. They've had two weeks to get fresh, right? We don't know who's gonna jog out the quarterback. Come come Saturday. But I think all all signs point to Caden Hauser and Sean and I were talking about it actually before this, how? Why not? I mean, you gotta give the kid give the kid a shot. I mean, no, Kim, has not been what, as advertised so far. I mean, a lot of people had a lot of unrealistic expectations for him. I think they expected him to come in and can be able to compete with the conference's best quarterbacks. And that that obviously just hasn't been the case. So I think that it's it's the right decision to go over the Caden Hauser and to give, you know, the redshirt freshmen a chance to show what he's got in real meaningful minutes start to finish, you know, whether he makes the start to finish, who knows, we might see some of the the freshmen Sam leave it in there as well also might tease me know, Kim, depending on how things go. But all in all, I think that Michigan State has has more of a chance to win this game than they have had the past three weeks. I mean, this is Rutgers team. They're a good football team. I think they surprised a lot of people. But when you look at Iowa, Maryland and Washington, those games, you know, on paper, compared to Rutgers is much more challenging games. And so, I mean, I've been surprised a lot by referees this year. I mean, they've come out they play good football, they've kind of bucked the trend of being this bottom feeder in the conference this season, you know, because they're sitting at forum two. So it on paper, it seems like it's an unfair matchup for those problems. But as you know, as we talked about it, there's still some there's still some ultimate optimism around it.
(DeShawn) And I just want to add him to like as something that I wanted to make sure I said, I'm not my I think all of us you believe that, then this is kind of a push for the holiday situation, that the Spartans, although there's their season has kind of gone astray and it doesn't look like they have lots of hopes for it. Too many major things that happened to them this season just like not even talking playoffs here, we're just talking about for the team, emotionally and whatnot. But I'm not saying they should quit, you know, at no point should I'm saying they should quit at every point, no matter what sport it is, you still gotta give it your all who knows what could happen next season, depending on the outcome to this year, like, I mean, like, we got a lot of things ahead of us. And it's definitely going to be in our best efforts to continue to push and continue to try and be the best program that we can be. So I'm definitely not saying we should quit. It's just a look, we've got to look towards new beginnings for next year, this season has not been the greatest thing for us not saying, you know, we definitely shouldn't give up in this game still go win them for sure to try and win them do what you can but be prepared for next season.
(Thomas) Because these games I mean, ultimately, this like winning a game or two here and there could end up being like the defining factor for whether or not a player transfers. Yes, because we have zero idea what's going to happen. I mean, the transfer windows open, I think we've been we've been lucky in the sense that only a few guys have decided to leave, I think it shows that most of the guys are at least committed to this season. You know, given all that was put into it, you know, they this team, they they were excited about the season. Like this was an offseason with non soccer there was an offseason where they wanted to bounce back from a bad year. And that all just hit the fan. Yeah, you know, we three, non soccer, obviously, we know what happened. And everything just sort of spiraled out of control. I was expecting to see more transfers, to be honest with you, this transfer window, but we have zero idea what like what this team is gonna be on paper next year and on the field. Yeah, we have no idea what the coaching staffs gonna look like next year. So I think that, you know, picking up a win a quality win, I mean, a win against Rutgers just for this weekend as quality one. Yeah. And you do that you might be able to get to, you know, get some guys to buy back in and stay.
(DeShawn) I totally agree.
(Anthony) Yeah, and was evident with everything that happened is the season is that industry is not gonna go down without a fight. And like you mentioned, I'm glad you mentioned, like, just the reminder of not to give up. And that's not what we're like pushing here. It's just, we obviously have the cards stacked against us. And you, especially if we lose this week, I mean, if I'm not mistaken next week, or the week after the Michigan game, so like we need to win that we're never Yeah, and records is probably the best opportunity for us to get it otherwise, it's gonna look bad for the foreseeable future. But with that being said, on the other end of the spectrum, you have MSU madness, formerly known if I'm not mistaken as Midnight Madness, if you want to kind of lead the way up probably about that time.
(Thomas) Yeah. So midnight, or MSU madness, formerly known as madness is the annual celebration of the beginning of the women's and men's basketball seasons at Michigan State. If you've ever been you, you know that the rosters are now's the woman, the woman's team usually starts, every single players and downs, they go up on the stage, you know, they do their their little spiel for you know, 30 seconds or so. And it's just kind of this big hype train around the players and celebrating the players and the roster and the beginning of the season. And it's it's followed by scrimmage so like the women's team will scrimmage after they're announced, then the men's team will scrimmage after they're announced. And just kind of giving the fans a glimpse of what was to come. I mean, I think it's it's one of the premier events in in college basketball. You see a lot of these these big time schools, we've had basketball schools having these events. I know Duke as I know, a lot of these, you know, Blue Bloods, if you will. I think Michigan State is at the very least on the cusp of being unbelievable at this point. But they have these little preseason hype, you know, like midnight events. And one of the coolest things about it, in my opinion, is that Coach Izzo every single time, does something different. So once a year he was shot out of a cannon as his intro one year he was released from the ceiling. One year US Ironman, so it kind of creates this whole stigma around, you know, what does Coach gonna do? What's it gonna look like? There's always a great turnout. I mean, I was there last year, please was buzzin and the expectations this year compared to last year are second to none. All right, that's why they didn't this year Michigan State's coming in, you know, guaranteed top 10 preseason team, whereas last year they were kind of in an unknown you know, they didn't get a lot of guys from either recruiting or from the transfer portal and they got zero people from the transfer portal this year but the incoming recruits combined with the senior class and the experience that led them to a sweet 16 and almost took them to the Elite Eight Final Four you could argue that you know Michigan State was a prayer or to buy Qantas stayed away from you know, being the final four Yeah. And so that combined with the top five recruiting class and then you've got David Booker, Jeremy fears Cohen car, Derrick Norman, all those guys. They really Know how to how to put a Michigan State away. And that's I think that's apparent from coach is interviews. You wouldn't say it if it wasn't true. Yeah, you know, with coaches or what you see is what you get. And he's added himself, he's got a hell of a freshman class. So I think that, you know, this the atmosphere tomorrow or Saturday night will be much more exciting than it was last year. And you know that saying something? Because it's always it's always the same.
(DeShawn) Yeah, I totally agree. Like, I mean, like, you hit somebody in a different points for basketball this year, Thomas, I mean, honestly, I'm super excited, I don't really know how to phrase it. Besides, I cannot wait for basketball to start this year, it should be something that's going to be a really fun pickup event for MSU basketball, or for the MSU students and MSU in general, especially after what's going on with football. As Anthony mentioned, we go to the opposite end of the spectrum. And that's because there's a lot of high expectations for the basketball team this year. And I mean, I wouldn't say that they're unreasonable expectations. I think that tomorrow should be a really exciting and eventful event. I mean, like, just for all you swarmed out there, go out and support your local basketball teams. You know what I'm saying? It's a free event. There's no reason that you can't show up. It should be like Thomas mentioned is always knows how to make a show. But I mean, the guy, he's not just a great basketball coach. He's a great entertainer, man, you got to do with these, though he does a great thing. The press conference this year has been really interesting to see. He just been Overall this year, he's been bringing a lot of hype. And it's been very exciting to see. And I just want to mention your comments, you kind of got into a bit of it. I think that it's going to be a great kickoff to the season. We're not really talking about it too much in this segment. But you know, like we said the last year this year is definitely panning out to be a Final Four or plus kind of year. A couple prayers away from Kansas State last year being in the Final Four, there's just high expectations and they're justifiable. ready, I'm ready. MSU is ready. I just cannot wait for basketball to start to hear.
(Thomas) Yeah, and, and on. Like a similar note, the woman's team is also stacking up to be to have I think, obviously the new coach Robin Frey look from Bowling Green. I think I personally think that it was a slam dunk hire. Robin Frey lick is known for her ability to turn programs around, you know, they did lose some some girls in the in the portal, but they also gained a lot of players from Bowling Green. And so I think that that sort of establishes the kind of coach that she is, you know, you always want to have a coach who, you know, players want to follow her. And as exactly what we saw, you know, two or three transfers from from Bowling Green and shows that, you know, hey, I'm going, where you going, where you're going, because you're that good of a coach. And that's the kind of relationship we have. To me. That means everything.
(DeShawn) Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, like you mentioned, Robin Fraley is definitely an ideal hire that we want to have for the game. But for the season this year, I'm thinking that like you mentioned, Tom is there's so many different people that are looking at for for like this year and thinking she's gonna be able to turn this program around, which is not like the program needs a huge turnaround. It's just we haven't been as successful as we would ideally like to be for MSU basketball MSU women's basketball these last couple years. However, you mentioned the the kind of program the players buying into for the system. We've got a mixture of veteran and new face players this year, one of the admins and it's a couple shows ago, but one of the players that was constantly mentioned from players like from mo Joyner, and from the Hagaman was Bree Robinson. She's a freshman coming in this year. And they're already saying that she's been able to really buy into it really has been and has been preaching into this leadership and coming together as a team. I remember mo joiner nd Hi, we're both saying Oh, and Gabby Elliott all saying that Bree has been able to step in as a freshman and immediately come close connected with the team, she's been able to step up and show that she's a leader even though she's just a young new face. So right, I definitely think that multiple players are going to buy into this year. And it's somewhat under similar sort of the basketball team. We've gotten new faces, we've got older faces. So it's going to be a good mixture of players this year, who are hopefully going to be able to play and we've got leaders that should be able to lead some of these new faces. And I think that it could be a really good year for basketball. I'm super excited for both men and women's basketball.
(Anthony) Yeah, and like I mentioned a few towards the beginning of sports roundtable with bringing you guys on. You guys are very like I would say very great journalists and very busy people as well. And if I was trying to talk while I was talking to Alex Thomas, if you want to announce a special announcement with college basketball this year with a missing college basketball.
(Thomas) So yes, I'm very grateful to receive the news that I will be the men's basketball reporter for this this winter. Absolutely something that I'm doing something that's been you know, in the back of my mind ever since I got into journalism and high school even you know, being able to follow his team, specifically the Michigan State men's basketball, basketball has always been my love. Michigan State has always been my love. And so to be able to do it on this platform, it's such a valued You know, storied institution like the state news. It just is really, it's really special for me. And, you know, words can't describe how lucky I am, how grateful I am. And, you know, I wouldn't be anywhere without the state news. I mean, the state news has has brought me through this entire process. You know, it's been a lot of learning on the job. But that's what it's that's what it's all about, you know, last year as a city reporter reporting on local politics, you know, that was not that was foreign to me. I mean, it was like a different language. And it was all worth it. Because, you know, I'm where I want to be. And like I said, I just couldn't, I couldn't be happier. And I have no words to describe how grateful I am for everybody here. And it's just, it's just an Outstanding, outstanding recognition that I'm not sure I deserve at this point.
(Anthony) Well, in my opinion, you definitely deserve it just for meeting you. I have you on sports roundtable, I definitely want to tell you, just for me, that proud of you, man. And I know you're going to do great work. And we can always talk about the things you have planned coming up as well. And I know we probably mentioned this at the end of the episode, but we might have to take a week off because these two are very busy individuals, and just proud to see where you're going. I'm just glad I had the opportunity to give you all this platform and then to see your growth. But
(DeShawn) we mentioned a couple times, and thank you, we do really appreciate
(Thomas) And DeShawn.
(Anthony) You want to talk about yourself a bit.
(DeShawn) I mean, yeah, I just Thomas is obviously it's it's hard to follow that one out. But I am luckily and gratefully given the opportunity to cover Women's Basketball has to be reported this year. So alongside Tommy as well, not exactly alone inside, but just along with him. I'll be covering women's basketball, and we'll be able to go all over the different topics. He's here. I'm excited to talk about those topics on the podcast. I'm a new face here at the State News. So like you mentioned times, I'm super grateful for the opportunities that the news has already offered me. Well deserved it. I appreciate that so much. And that's how everyone here has made me feel. I've been trying to do as much work as I can since I've been here. So I'm ready to go for this season. You mentioned how much basketball is my sport, man. Like I mean, I love the sport like no like the back of my hand. So the moment the opportunity was offered to me, it was I couldn't say no to it absolutely cannot say no to it actually wasn't even a choice to say no. But no, seriously, I mean, like we talked about a little bit. co-driver feelings gonna be coming in this year, there's a lot of new buzz. So I cannot wait. I've said that. I don't know how many times the show already. But now the fact that I'm going to be reporting and covering the team is going to be a whole new aspect that I'm excited for. Yeah, let's let's do it man. Season
(Anthony) makes the season even more exciting. And since we can all agree that basketball, some of our favorite sports and our specialties a bit. I was talking to the shop off the mic that ESPN released the top 50 NBA players that a preseason, before the season starts. And if you guys want to react to the list, y'all want to pull it up real quick. I got on my end, they've split it up between 5211 and then one to 10. So
(Thomas) well, I know just Shawn and I will have some disagreements about about this, the number one pick on to start.
(Anthony) I think we all would have some disagreements.
(DeShawn) So yeah, all right. So yeah, I mean, I want to say that we kept the focus kind of on the top 10. Here, this is a very long list. And if maybe we want to take another shot at discussing some of the other players before they started the season, I definitely think we'd go there. But this top 10 I'm gonna be honest, I don't have major problems with the list, I didn't think that it was a terrible list. I mean, before we get to the some of the top players we can go, we can just kind of list off some of the players and the back end. They do have Anthony Davis and LeBron James. And maybe in the last two spots on the list. You got some young faces in there, you got shy in there, which was kind of surprising to see not too surprising, but it's just like the top 10 You started to get into a different Echelon there and you hope that shot is going to be a repeat there. He's been playing really good. Jason Tatum above KD which I thought was a little bit a little bit suspect. But like I said, no major problem with this list. So I'm just gonna move into number one and number two here. I think that like Tom has said we may have a little bit of disagreement, but we can go there if he wants to. You gotta yawn it's coming in at number one, which I was leaving New Yorkers to come in and number two, I think that a lot of people may there be there may be a lot of discussion around this topic areas list. However, I will say that I agree with the honest man up there at the top I think that he has been playing has been the number one player for surely the last two and maybe even the last three years I think that the passing of the torch went from I mean, for most people, at least for me, it was kind of like LeBron James stepping down and then you also have the staff career right there. But it immediately off shift to Jana is once the dominant started to take over so I I'm sure some people are going to have a big problem with Yogesh not being number two, I would hear the arguments. I'm definitely going to hear your argument I'm not saying that it's not a justifiable but I think that Yanis is gonna have another big opportunity to prove himself this year. He is going to be able, I'm sure some people think that they take away a little bit from the books offense however, I think that he's going to be able to create so many more different opportunities for young guys to like Aspire this year, so we're definitely gonna see one more thought that came to my mind before Yeah, Howard before Thomas looks like he wants to bite my head off. So I probably know that go but just one more thought that kind of came to my mind was just that. It's crazy the transition that we're seeing in the NBA like, I feel like it's going back and forth a couple of different times throughout the history. But we're moving back into focusing on the more taller and athletic players in the NBA, one two and three all centers so you can give me honest as the one exception, it was really afford just a very tolerant loan for for that matter. But you got Yanis up there yoke edge and then you've got Joel Embiid, which I mean, it's it's kind of crazy, just not to see, you know, Steph Curry up there where obviously he hasn't been a top 10 He's been a top guard but not in the top two in a while, but like a Kyrie Irving or someone like that, like you would expect to see a very skillful point guard, at least in the top three yet you see a full of big men, which is just a cool, it's a cool and crazy transition that we're seeing. And I think the first hint that we got was back in the offseason, you had the contracts like Damian Lewis contract and James Harden contracts that were not getting picked up James Harden is still yet to have his contract picked up by anybody. And then you got Chris ball, and he's traded away as a son's look for a new way of looking for the championship. They've obviously tried for the last couple of years with him and it just hasn't panned out. It's just it. There's nothing wrong with these guys. They're obviously great players, you guys know I feel by Damian related like, I mean, I'm super ecstatic about him. However, this transition does not favor the shorter guards that aren't playing defense, this transition is there for the 6667 guys were able to score on one and play high end defense on the other end. So it's it's amazing tradition that we're going to see especially with some of the newer players coming in and we like finding yawning and hungry so
(Thomas) yeah, I just feel I just feel bad for the end like the the up and coming centers in the league because now yo kitchen and beat up set that precedent to like in this in the sense that like, like to win an NBA Finals, you got kind of have to have a force base here at that position. Yeah, you know, your kitchen and be there practically point guards, you know, you'll get some points last year was the point guard on the floor, like it would space forward all around them, and let them take the ball off the court. And so I think that that just is very, it's a very difficult precedent for for some of these up and coming senators to fall. I mean, that even the best Senator thought basketball, at least this past year, and probably will be this year. But you know, he's nothing like that as a player, right? He's a senator paint guy. And now that we have this, this hierarchy of begs to the point where, you know, you don't really succeed unless you have a big man who cannot have a three. And, you know, that's, it's tough for these for these some of these, you know, sit in the post and grind it out, guys, the big 10 coming from, you know, the big 12 schools that that like to play volleyball. And, you know, like, it's, it's not that deep. I mean, I have nothing. I have nothing but respect for Jada's. I think he's an outstanding player. I think he's an outstanding human being. Yeah, it just I just think it depends on how, like, what do you see somebody has been number one player, as you see the number one player as someone who's extremely solid on, like, in all aspects of the game, because I mean, no one's denying that Jonas is miles better defensively than you. Okay. And, you know, their offensive numbers. Wall Yogesh, you know, has a slight edge on him in that. Jana. So put up his points. Yeah, he honestly gets his assists. But if you watch Yogesh play, I don't see how you can say this is not the most skilled basketball player in the world. Because with the way that he just he plays in the way that he gets his teammates involved. He that he could score zero points in the game. The team wins. And he's happy. You know, like, you couldn't say you'd like you couldn't say that about Yeah, I don't think you could, you definitely couldn't say that about a beat. You know, these guys are guys that, you know, they're looking to get theirs. And as for Yogesh, he's just trying to win, and he doesn't care. He sees us the NBA as his day job. He would rather be back in Serbia riding horses. And in my perspective, that makes him makes him the best player in the world. Because he just goes out there he gets his guys involved. You please team basketball. I mean, three years ago, I heard him say, a basket makes one person happy and assists makes two people happy. Yeah. And you know, like as a guy who you know, English is obviously a second language like he's like, that just is something that stood out to me because he's it was just such a genuine thing to say you could tell he really meant it. And he really felt that I mean, a lot of these guys I feel like just kind of our, our PR trained. And you know, they know what to say when to say don't think doesn't have PR No, I'm good. You're good speaks his mind T has never had a lick of social media. Right? He just goes out there. He feeds his his guys in the corner, you feed his guys under the rim. And he wins Finals MVP. And he walks away and he goes and rises his horse you
(DeShawn) know, my guy says I got I like, I'm not I'm not saying anything. You said he's on bat or invalid there. It's the thing I'm really looking forward to this year is I think that I I bet yours has had showed his dominance on the basketball team. However, don't get me wrong, the bugs have done a pretty good job of building a team around him. However, it seems like they were getting a little bit old and falling apart while you're still in the in the very private Vizier. It's like I mean, right? You know, for sure, there's issues, obviously, with Chris Middleton. He's an elite player. However, his injury history has just not been going well. For them, it's been falling a little bit on the south side, you really got to know their players, they're really there to help space before I think the last few times that we've seen the bumps in the cold season. Jonas is is you know, he's he's dropping 3040 balls, you know, just driving to the paint. However, when it comes down to crunch time, they don't have a closer to kick the ball to and trying to hit it 3.3 For them to obscure the game. So I think that's been one aspect of it. That's been like, difficult for us to figure out. And I'm sure that, like you mentioned yoke is all about team ball. Yawns is definitely one of the more ball heavy players give him the ball type of thing. However, one thing that I'm definitely looking forward to is that he talked in one of his recent press conferences, I think it was on media day, just how he's prepared to play and move a little bit for Damian Lillard. I don't saying this obviously isn't a hot take, I don't want anybody to get it's coming from my mouth. I was just I love them. But yeah, this is obviously a better player in the game. He's the number one player as far as this goes, right? But knowing that Yanis is going to be prepared to move over and make some space for a game is a great thing. Also, on the other side of that Dame has clearly talked about Yan as being a better player than him, which is a good time to see. Because you would seem to slow down, you can seem to have top dogs going into teams like that. And even though most of the people are clear that yards is better game could go in there thinking that, Oh, I'm still better than yours. And he's gonna have to defer to me and others. So like I said, I'm really hoping that this year is going to be recruited a lot of opportunities, and Yan is going to be able to go back to that player, he's able to kick play freely. And then once things start to get clogged up, we can take, and then that back forth rotation kind of starts. So like I said, I don't invalidate anything you said about you. Okay, she's an outstanding player. A couple of years ago, I would have been deep in this argument. But I've learned watching him over the last two years, like really trying to get to know his place out. It's amazing the things that he can do at his size. And his speed was one of those. He's one of those I control the tempo type players just like a little bit, the Europeans have been really good at controlling the tempo of the game. So yoke is definitely right there. And they mentioned in the listing that this is one of the slimmest margins they've ever had for number one. So it's not like they're saying there's such different players. Yeah, they're completely different players, which makes it hard to compare. But the one thing that we do know is that we've got some really good big men in the league. And we've had some, and we're gonna continue to do that with the next couple of years.
(Thomas) I have two questions for you, though. I'll just answer them briefly. All right. What do you think is better? Right now the books are the nuggets
(DeShawn) currently constructed? It may sound unfair, but I think that the nuggets are still a better constructed team. The books have got a really good set up here. However, I think there's do some things with it. I mean, it's obviously a new team. So we still don't even know what they're going to turn out to be yet. And the nuggets are coming up. I will, I will say that it's not as much of a different I keep forgetting that you guys lost Bruce Brown, which I think is a huge piece. Yeah, for sure. I would just i The Slight Edge that I'm doing, and I'm meeting a slight edge to having given the nuggets right now. Just the fact that they're still there are a preconstructed team first, the bugs adding in a huge new piece. It's not like it's just a small couple move on. It's a huge new piece that and I think it's set up to be to pan out really well. But we still have to see.
(Thomas) So if this is like this is the second part of question. If you're honest, and you could switch teams switch places who would be better. Which team and Jana, thank you. Okay, switch so we will be better your coaches box, or Jana says nuggets right now that we have to say yoga just bucks.
(DeShawn) I I don't know, man. I mean, with the young is with Jamal Maria. I know. I mean, Syria is still like I think they would I think the budget should be in someone in the same situation that they're currently constructing. And right now of it being a hard kick out of team. I like I like Porter Jr. However, I haven't seen him since they struggled last year. So we I would have to agree that you're right on that you're right on that phrase as well. But you mentioned they're just two different players. It's kind of hard, it's still hard to make those comparisons or answer their questions like that, because I think that they provide two different aspects to their teams, depending on what's there. But I
(Thomas) I just think that if I'm an NBA franchise owner, GM, and I have one person to to build around it to pitch because all you need is shooters. And guys who can play defense like you surround your pitch with two three indies at the guard position and to you know, like stretch forwards that can shoot and play defense. You're in a good spot. Whereas for Yanis you kind of need that you kind of need you Skill guys all over it because he's, he's, he's dominant and offensively because of his his his frame and classism and all that. But he doesn't have the kind of skill set offensively that yoga has, you know, like, there's a reason they had to go out and get them. There's a reason that, you know, it didn't work out with Chris Middleton as number two option. And it just to me, you know the fact that you'll get one on one Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr. And Aaron Gordon like that. That says it all to me.
(DeShawn) He's a good player, though. I think he really he had a chance to prove that last year. I I just have one more small comment. I know we've been going on for a while. I one thing I'm really looking forward to this year because I haven't always had the biggest amount of love or geometry. I'm going to be watching very hard to see how many what the shots that you'll get in Jamal Murray make this year I don't know how many I should really go back and watch it multiple times. Your pitch fallen off his feet, though in the Adam Sandler jungle. It's ridiculous. Jamal Murray doing the same thing. He's catching. He's coming off pick and rolls catching passes with less than two seconds up there and he's just firing it. It's going and so but no, Jamal Murray has a good player. I'm not gonna go there from Michael Porter Jr. I think that he has potential and whatever he's got to figure it out. but Bruce Brown is also a really good addition. I obviously you look at just the powerhouse of that team, but I don't think that the roster is like
(Anthony) I mean, Thomas, you saw a lot of what I was gonna say. Um, I definitely agree. You'll get to that one. I really liked the question you asked if they switch teams, just because it depends on what you prefer. I mean, Yan is like you said yes to the bed defender yoga just about a facilitator. We saw which one one championship last year especially since one of these two players got beat by AC but you know, with him being kind of injured with content, a little bit of context being removed, but I just flipped them Yoky chain Yiannis at wanting to but I got I got a few hot takes as far as the order of this list because I don't, I don't necessarily disagree with the Tinder is one player I put it in and it can debate if he could make the top 10 or fall just outside of it. But before I go, when I asked, Would you guys switch up the order around the top team to put somebody in there because I was gonna ask you, do you agree with Lillard not being tapped in? So
(DeShawn) I do agree with Lily not being a top 10 player? Don't get me wrong, I think like I do think that he is like still a top three point guard in this league, however, is the dynamic of what we talked about a couple of weeks ago with the whole ranking point guard is and how that goes. It there's there is a max potential of what you can do as a guard for your team. First, let's look at this list. I mean, how many people under six three are on this list? Is that I think still shy might
(DeShawn and Anthony) be the only two people how totally shy I think che is I'm like at least six foot seven spiff.
(DeShawn) Honestly what 16 613 Yeah, most of these players on this list are above six, five at least. So it's like, I think it's hard. It's if this was a top point guard Liz Dane, if name wasn't if I didn't see his name by number three, I would be I would lose my mind. However, when you start to try and rank these positions, it's just the almost every other player on this list can be more effective than Damian guaranteed at least on defense. There's only one player on here that I can see that almost plays no defense at all. Because even Steph Curry, he's got some really quick hands. Luka dodge hasn't been known to play some he hasn't had to really play any defense in this league. So like, that is the one I'm questioning but he's obviously a rising star. I think I'm good with most of the list order. The one that I'm just very curious about? Isn't I have no doubt. I think he's an amazing talent. He's just like I said, putting top 10 is a whole new echelon. I got to see Shai perform at the top 10 players this year, when you start asking me questions, like is game district game? Shy? Isn't there? So that's the only one that I'm like, on the edge of Yeah.
(Thomas) Yeah, I was always surprised about that. Obviously, a heck of a year, but I don't know if he's proven to be that. That MVP caliber player yet. I mean, you heard like, a lot of the narratives last year were you know, shy? Eventually will be an MVP. And I don't I don't doubt that especially considering I don't I wouldn't count it out. I'll say just because, you know, they're the thunder are the woman and only there have a gazillion draft picks in the next 10 years. I mean, they've probably they probably like I don't know how many like how many draft picks they have first Rounders it's probably like 15 like some five years it's it's just they're on this trend where I could see them you know, and it guys don't even work out you could you know, trade them you know, trade it for for more pics or more players. And so I think that with the right team around me definitely could could fall in that in that category but I just don't think he's there yet. He had a great year. We've also seen guys have that kind of year, you know where it's just you're putting up the numbers. But you know, the team isn't isn't there yet to show why you deserve that MVP MVP spot.
(DeShawn) Yeah. And then once you finish your list, but just to add on real quick to what you said, you also gotta remember that they also just drafted Hungary and we have to see how that transition is gonna go with bringing them in. As you mentioned, we know we're about to trade him he seems the number two pick just what two years ago, however. You also got Jeff CD there, you got homeroom, you got Shai. They're young, and they're all very good explosive players. However, you have to start figuring out how ball sharing is gonna go for their team, especially with more draft picks coming in, you got to figure out more of the couple small bolts of the team and figure out how to really put it together. I totally agree. We seen the jump that the Kings made just this past year. And I think that the potential for the thunder is even better than that because the team that the Kings Bill was still through a process of picking up different pieces and drafting the thunder have seen as you mentioned, they have multiple draft picks coming in. They just draft I mean I think what like I said Guinea has just got their shot. I just got their jet homerun just got there. I mean, they've got the game yeah, yeah, no, but no, but I mean, just the aspect of high draft picks that they've already bringing seizure. So yeah, they've got a huge potential comment made me but go ahead. Man, I definitely want to hear what you got to say about this.
(Anthony) So like you guys, you guys both mentioned a lot of great points and it just makes Jubitz interesting how you agree Lillard is not top team but Steph is like so high on the list such a big gap between those two players almost if one is clearly better than the other but um um with that being said so i i personally flip yoke and Yan is one or two and then I have a very scorching hot take with a certain player on this list so the highest I personally put Embiid on this list is seven I don't personally see him as a top three player because similar to che and also agree with you I should be obviously push eight and 10 just because of the point I'm about to make would it be even more so but we don't see no playoff experience? Now obviously the thunder haven't been a player so a suitable playoff team but we don't I form an environment when the stakes are highest when the competition is highest so great regular season cool but we have ever really seen him battle tested and with Embiid so the the source of this take for me becomes between NBS ad and a lot of people are hard on ad to his consistency but MB if I'm not mistaken, went out like 15 points in game seven and elimination game and their game six didn't play as good either. And then this has been a repeated cycle from NBHM and the playoffs so it's like if we're taking we're talking about inconsistencies a player who's supposed to be MVP caliber the MVP didn't wind up last year he won 15 points it's game seven it's like that not only that on screen top three player to me. I mean, we've seen Luke have performed better in the playoffs obviously Steph I would personally say ad just if we go off like the bubble or an 80s defense being more in my opinion a bit more consistent and beat so I personally got ad over and beat and then with me having that take it kind of restructures it restricts the listen a lot because even as a LeBron fan due to his age I wouldn't put like him over and be so I respected the list of having like you don't get the honest and then look at Steph it's such a hard debate for me because Luke is my second favorite player in the league and even if we go unbiasedly I mean I consider him like the six foot six Yogesh like him a yogic play very similar and and only different to 277 feet tall but Steph Curry I mean if we if I'm being consistent with my take of like playoff performance Steph has gone up there time and time again and went insane like obviously you guessed the Kings he held his own and then in the finals just coming off a championship they predicted like Chris ball may be a big big enough addition to kind of keep them in contention so it's yeah we'll see Steph I look I mean you could flip flop them I'm personally this is this would also be a hot take if they didn't already ranking but I would personally keep take them over Katie ever since my take has been similar to a YouTuber shout out be souls basketball YouTuber. Take them over Katie ever since 2021 like ever since they sweat Katie and them and Tatum kind of had Katie on lockdown a bit ever since then I've had to take them over Katie personally but it's real close
(Thomas) and that it really isn't scorching hot take
(Anthony) yeah that's why I say it would be more hot is like ESPN didn't already do it and then with 2021 didn't happen by nobody trying to say like taking over Katie is a bit questionable. And then once we get from there me you could you can go and be LeBron ad and a J or I wrote I got LeBron at 788 and beat at nine but haven't MB barely talked in it. Like that's very scorching hot to take for him to have the regular season. He did so I'm cool with putting them just under Katie if you want to flip flop and Dan, Shay aunty I mean, are we really saying che is better than people like Devin Booker? I mean, Damian Lillard, you can even have that conversation right? I know John Moran is not an easy name right now, dude, what's going on? Let me put them better in job. Even if you would say, yeah, you would push me over all those players. It's still a very close debate between all of them, but I know the more hot take here is and be so low. So do you have any thoughts on that?
(DeShawn) I just think that I understand what you're saying with me not having great playoff success. However, the injuries although they're not his fault, he's judged for the movie like I mean, that has been a part of his downfall in the postseason. However, I don't want to put this all on him because you mentioned you know, his 15 and game seven, James Harden had one of the worst playoff outings I've ever started
(Anthony) to get me started on hard people really try to play on top three shin guards a lot of time is it's disrespect. And
(DeShawn) I understand their history with that. That's one of the tangent but James Harden had one of the worst playoff performance and he's continued to not he just liked doing and he just continue to not show that he is not in the grid performing the playoffs. I honestly and this can be a hot take. I'm not sure. I think God needs to get out of Philadelphia immediately. That's not a hot I agree. He needs to get up out of there, man. I don't think they got it right for him at all. Daryl Morey? No James Howard has had a lot of hot takes on him but I did like some some of these guys are gonna be wrong. I'm not doubting their basketball knowledge or credibility. But i However, there's been so many bigger stars out here and if I was the bigger sort of dwelling beads, caliber, and I do we we got this nonsense going on with James Harden's contract right now he's still on a team and we were losing some of our new players that are coming in we got Tyrese Maxey, we've been talking we've got all types of talks about what's going to happen with him Halliburton left and he went to the Blazers so you know it's it doesn't seem like they're making great roster moves there if I'm gonna meet I'm getting out of there but I truly I mean, I don't want to say seven six are the only thing that like are part of like dwelling beads like like not great playoff performance he does have to play better in the playoffs and hope anyway, he's got another year to show it as you mentioned he had a great regular season he won his second scoring title which I think is a big deal for senators like I mean I'm not sure how many senators have one concern multiple score Oh Tytos considering back to back scoring titles so join would be I think he's in a right spot I can understand maybe moving down you know maybe one or two but then you start getting back into that power dynamic I go to what is the center what comes with the center versus moving in you know, because you mentioned we've seen Luca have some good player performance however any carrier just missed the playoffs this past year so there is something for that there's something for him right there. South Korea has just come in recently for championship I understand him being there and that that that that slight you throw right there okay, I heard it I felt that okay, that has nothing to do with the two like I said this is a point guard rating and are the standard steps do get stuck above and it has everything to do with championships and people like death Ross
(Anthony and DeShawn back and forth for awhile)
I mean, it's literally even a top three point guard. I mean, let's let's pop over here. Let's do we got Stefan Luke, good. And then che che made the list. They make the list. So how are we pining for talking? I literally want to talk to people in the top three points. So who put him over che
i will put him over che i put him over DEVIN BOOKER.
You can link them Booker to the shooting guard. Yeah. Okay. All right. Cool. That's fine. But yeah, I wouldn't put him over DEVIN BOOKER leaguewide. So I mean, if we include Booker, I mean, you can I mean, I haven't.
But you do realize you're talking about DEVIN BOOKER and Steph Curry right now, John. You know what they both have in common what Kevin Durant Kevin Durant alright. I
know they also both have in common they played Barry Katie on the team
to bond with Me Please prove it. Prove it. Katie when he got pictures of stuff getting quadruple team Katie I had to find a pre to final MVPs on that team. He'd be the leading scorer on those teams. Got it. Alright, I'm done.
(Anthony) I mean, listen if I'm getting more people on my pastor Katie Katie also has an when he left stuff he got sweat too so we knew we know who knew step one and got his without Katie before after Katie so um yes, I mean, Joel's there was obviously a great player and I liked the points you made about Philly definitely got a hot take about heart and I mean, it's gonna be a whole nother separate segment on James Harden and even though coincidentally in that same series, I think hard and had like a 40 point game when NB either I think either you missed the game or you kind of had like a solo game. He had a 40 minute game theory game for Yeah, so hardened heart is a whole nother thing. And then with him wanting to switch to Hanzo another conversation but do you have any comments about the NBA situation or just the the rants we just went on?
(Thomas) I mean, I just I think that MB is like, he's a tremendous player. I just, I, I'm gonna be, it's gonna be interesting to see how these next three years how the next few years play out. I mean, does he does he reach that next level? Obviously, the closest he's been was 2019. Yeah, when Kawhi had the infamous shot that hit the room about 14 times, but morale. But I just think that, like, this is a very pivotal moment in his career, because, and be the he he's at that that point where people are starting to see that he's more of a individual player. And, like, the main difference between him and yogurts is that envied you can tell he cares about in the individual isolated, you know, I remember back in 2021, or Yeah, 2021. When yo, which one is second time? And no way. So that'd be point 2.1 A two. Second time. Yeah. And it was a pivotal game five in the playoffs, conference, semis. And bead was, I think he just had a basil statline or something along those lines. And after the game, it was like the day after yogurt was announced as the MVP. And like it was this whole controversy, you know, at least you don't want to miss there that Steven Naismith Oh, I voted for him feed, everyone started to hop on that train. And NBA basically sat in the postgame press conference and was like pounding, saying, I don't know. I don't know what you guys don't like what people want me to do. I don't know what more I can do to win MVP. And it's like, Dude, you just lost this game for your team? I don't three two in the series. Why are you focusing on the NDP? You know, then you ask your coach about actually winning that VP? And he's like, I'm just happy we won today. Yeah. Yeah. And that just kind of separates those two, automatically, you know, the mindset, it's just that, that getting out of your own head sometimes can just make all the difference. And I know that has nothing to do with, I guess what I started with, but how was the pivotal moment in his career, but I just think that people are starting to see that. MB, it's more about, you know, the accolades. And he needs to he needs to get there. He needs to get to that conference final. He needs to get to the NBA final if not when, and he needs to do it efficiently. He needs to do it as the leader. And I don't I don't see it happening. I don't think that he's that kind of big kind of performer.
(DeShawn) Yeah, I'm not sure when it's gonna happen or not. But I actually see the the point you were trying to make there I mean, like I agree with you, it's a pivotal moment, because we've seen in the last couple years that bejoy MB is about individual words. However, he is one MVP now, so there's no more I'm focusing on that. It should now be a time where he's like, I've got the MVP, I've got two scoring titles. I you know, I'm I'm number three on ESPN is ranking this, I need to go do the only thing that will separate me from the rest of these guys go into championship, make it to the conference finals, make it to the finals, do something more than getting bounced in the second round. So I You're right, Thomas, he should definitely find the mic that this year have I gotta figure this out? I gotta, I gotta I gotta do this to this stuff. It's not gonna change anything. That was kind of what was happening. We okay, you know, the juniors is that like he was getting balanced in early playoff matches. And everyone's like, why is this guy winning? And he's finally he's finally able to prove himself and everyone sees the same story could happen for dwelling be if he could go out there and prove himself in the postseason. So I do understand what you're saying. I it can be very eventful. However, I'm not sure of the success of that story. However, it he hasn't really shown us and I don't think it's going to happen in Philadelphia, unfortunately.
(Anthony) Yeah. And are close. I'm just want to ask, do you guys feel MB deserved to have up to a year? I think me and Thomas, I have a similar answer, but
(Thomas) I think he did. I was talking to somebody about this today. Actually, I think that MB deserved that MVP. But Yogesh deserved it this year. I really do. I think that and I also think that you could argue that Yanis deserved veto because his first year I mean, like those three guys have just been in this. This triangle for MVP, and I think that it could have gone either way or still time.
(Anthony) Yeah. And from my personal opinion, I'll leave it I'll leave it my point at this just during that whole season, because it's gonna be a whole nother rant. My answer is yoke, I feel yoke it should have been three times up every time when and there's this document approved for DeMarcus Cousins, the first person that pops up in my head but when you asked, like, why is yoka GBP. And then you give like, okay, he's doing this and this and that you're breaking records, audits, etc. Every time somebody was asked why and B was deserving VP, I mean, he didn't get it the other two years so there's got to be a year like I could have just been ignorant to the like the X argument but every time I tried to be like okay, like it'd be a great player there's a very easy argument you can make for MBB and MVP right now I mean scoring title record, why every time to talk about him getting MVP it was he hasn't gotten the last two years so we got to give him this year. It felt like a pity MVP and me personally, especially with high and be cared enough about and then just the fact that nobody actually made a basketball argument it was just the fact that you've just gotten the last two and then I think DeMarcus Cousins said in an interview like the point you made about like yoga just getting these MVPs and I think he literally said yoke if we might use a three time MVP, we got to put them up here we got to put them up there recurring is one of the great signs all the time like why not? Why would you I mean, there's I feel like that's a relevant point. Like I mean, you can make the argument okay free time if up greatest center all the time. I don't I don't personally think those had to necessarily connect and then ironically enough, he won the championship anyway. So it's like we could have had a very totally with you there. So it just it's very frustrating here if you do want to go that far. I would. I would have personally felt like let's say you got to 30 We've been in when and people start considering him or a senator or one of the greatest. I feel like that'd be a bit far but with him getting the championship proven it going through the likes of LeBron ad, Katie book, Chris Paul, Jimmy Butler BAM like I feel like we just got cheated out of historic season well, already historic season could have been more but you got in this off the shine. Do you feel MB was the right choice for?
(DeShawn) Well, see now that's a mixture of storylines, and I just don't know how well those play into voting when it comes down to it. Because like you mentioned, like, I mean, I don't know how much the voters are actually going to like you as DeMarcus Cousins or you as like, certain people will have the voters that are actually a part of this and make sure you have different handlers and journalists and stuff like that. I'm not sure that the voting was exactly a pity party. I mean, ULMB he shot nearly 55% from the field this year. And as Thomas mentioned earlier in the show he's not just in one of these paymaster dwelling meeting space the floor he's got an excellent mid range shot like
(Anthony) like an excellent eight we'll call it x and moving
(DeShawn and Anthony going back and forth again) it out more to that three point that's where it gets a little bit difficult for him however, he's been able to show he can knock that down to which will it be you gotta go check it out. And then I'm telling you a shooting I saw.
I saw him I saw a mirror and I saw I did it. It goes back
two years ago and told me that that yoga was again balanced by Steph Curry your team and you they had him look in drag
without Michael Porter Jr. Jamal Murray. Wicked pa
pies. You have to remember that you're talking about 40 It's good. Yeah, yeah, two games early in the season. And then he fell out for another two games.
No, that's fair. Yeah. It may fail right we're talking
about joy and being not having great postseason performance. Okay. James Harden literally has never had great postseason performance and now he's partnering
with never know you talk about his career. Yeah, never I mean, you know put up 40 points against the words and come on whoever won like the rockets won. Not the series but again, who won that series the word and what what does it matter how many yo take was he's never had a good look at that. You know, he's never had great posts before postseason performance he
has not
so that's why we have 52 May you do really well? Are we gonna really do the research here because that's just not true.
At issue it is objectively true James Harden at two back to back games where he shot for like three for 22
Yeah played off wood. He's not the best player on the team. What James Harden supposed to be the best player on that team. And currently most hard to
bail them out to you forgetting that you're getting an edge whether it be that an injury and Lazarus postseason as well r&d into Oh no, he had one two years ago when he was still coming out of a state with Philadelphia he was perfectly healthy last year. He was perfectly
like he injured himself against some time after that
I could be wrong but injured in the in the Philadelphia his first playoff state and when he got there, the first time man who even Brooklyn but he was perfectly fine his last playoff series,
(DeShawn) regardless of the fact dwelling the shot 55% from the field and as I said, he's got a great mid range shot. I don't agree or high average of 33.1 55% I think that's totally deserving of an MVP, because then you also play the storyline of why I think we were robbed of a story. It was already a story view you mentioned I will totally give him his props. I don't think that NDP voters should be playing in this could be his third MVP in a row should we vote for him? I don't think MVP voters should be dwelling Vijay did the last three years should we be voting for him? I think it's purely off to play the game and like I said the it was a it was a very slight margin but I just think that dwelling been out and gone the best Senator like I mean like it like because as Tom was mentioned, these guys aren't just senators anymore so it's hard to like kind of give their demographic of best Senator but it's I think he totally deserved MVP because you also add in the defensive side as well. I mean, he had a he had a spectacular over the year and he's been at the presidency insane he's a he's a great painting
(Anthony) I mean he's he leads above a better defender Danielle good. When the yoke is facilitating scoring pretty much on Sohio look at it as Let's say MB is a better score, which statistically is true by just looking at it as if one is getting 33. And one is getting 29 club and 12. I mean, who's really the better score here, like if we're going off points and B's averaging more points, but if you don't get and I'm just doing, I don't know the exact numbers, but you'll get you can score somewhat similarly, while having double digit assists and rebounds. One comes off as the very score for me, especially whenever I'm making assists such an important part of their game. And then, as far as it'd be, I mean, we can see her go back for one day, that hard take was crazy, but just, we could be here for long. I don't know if you own if you put it up specific to this conversation, but if not, then, I mean, we can continue this off off the mic,
(DeShawn) and we can save this for another time. I'm looking at James Hart and stuff right now.
(Anthony) Okay, what that means that you guys just want to end this off with Tom.
(Thomas) I think you guys got it all.
(Anthony) Well, thanks for taking the seat at the table with us. My name is Anthony Brinson III
(DeShawn) DeShawn Johnson,
(Thomas) Thomas Cobb
(Anthony) and this has been this website to a podcast. Thank you guys for listening.