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USDN Podcast is a cinematic indie comics interview series hosted by the USDN_Chairman and the Council of Nerds — spotlighting the creators, storytellers, and worldbuilders shaping the future of independent comics.
Each episode dives beyond headlines into the real journeys behind the books — from Kickstarter launches and creative struggles to the philosophies driving today’s indie storytelling movement.
This isn’t about rumors or recycled news.
It’s about the people creating the worlds.
Through in-depth conversations, creator spotlights, and crowdfunding discussions, USDN explores:
• The rise of indie comics
• The business of crowdfunding
• The art of worldbuilding
• The realities of independent storytelling
USDN is where indie comics come to life — for the fans, by the creators, and powered by the community.
You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Thanks for watching!
what is up everybody it's the chairman of
the united states department of nerds
where we are for the people by the
people and of the people and ladies and
gentlemen tonight i got a big one for
you because the snow is falling a candle
is flickering and somewhere in the dark a
sultry whisper cuts the silence this year
christmas comes three times
And welcome back, everybody.
Joining me today on a launch day
celebration are Clay Adams and David
Schrader of Bloodline Comics.
And they're coming here today to present
to y'all a very Carmilla Christmas Carol,
which is a sexy supernatural revamp.
of Dickens' iconic holiday classic
launching today on Kickstarter,
which just funded as of about an hour
and a half ago, if I'm not mistaken.
Clay, David, welcome to the show, fellas.
Mr. Chairman, thanks for having us.
Nice to be here, Mr. Chairman.
Guys, how's it feel?
You got a late launch today.
at four pm and you were fully funded
before y'all's dinner time yeah it was
pretty nice uh i can't complain it's uh
it's tracking very well um you know like
we were talking beforehand uh got a little
bit of a later start than we're used
to um but uh we got it together
just in time and uh yeah it's going
like gangbusters
These things always come together at the
last minute sometimes.
No matter how much you plan,
there's always some loose ends.
And Clay does the lion's share of
physically, not physically,
but building the website.
Digitally.
Digitally building the Kickstarter.
Fingers behind it.
Yes.
And so it's a lot of work,
a lot of moving parts.
And I give him all the credit for
being the engine that drives these things.
Ah, you're too kind.
We're a team.
And for everybody,
David is the mind though,
that wrote the book.
No, not this one.
Not this one, no.
I think I had the germ of the
idea and then we kind of went back
and forth on it.
And then the main thing was that I
had an idea to kind of bring it
into a present or near future.
And Clay thought we were going to do
more of a traditional,
let's set her in the Dickens era Christmas
carol because she could have been there.
She's that old.
But we...
We said,
let's change this up and let's make it
a little different.
So I kind of wanted to kind of
make it a more of a modern take
on it.
And then clay is always good at kind
of shaping some of my crazier ideas and
honing it.
So we do work well together in that
way.
Yeah,
Dave had the idea to sort of make
it kind of a modern day or near
present future commentary on current
events.
Yeah, it's not Ebenezer Scrooge.
It's Elanizer Spooge is our character that
she had dealings with in the nineties in
Silicon Valley.
And so they have a history and she
comes back to haunt him.
Yeah,
so Dave worked out a pretty extensive
story Bible.
And I just,
I kind of took some of his opening
scene and kind of the synopses that he
wrote down and, you know,
helped whip it into shape.
But it's a team effort for sure.
So what drove y'all to want to take
the Dickens Classic and bring it to
Carmilla, which is a wonderful idea.
I've been following y'all's story with
Carmilla for quite some time now.
But what was like, like,
we got to do something for Christmas or
was it just like Carmilla,
Dickens Classic, let's do it.
I think it kind of was like that.
I mean, I think, uh, first of all,
thank you for the, for your support, um,
uh, for following the book.
Um, we've, we, you know,
we launched the first one, uh,
in a few years ago and, uh,
it did, it did pretty well, but we,
we've learned a little bit more about how
to run a Kickstarter since then.
And so, uh, you know,
we did earlier this year and that, uh,
really took off.
And so that was the Miami Heat or.
Yes.
Yeah.
Miami Bites.
Yeah.
Miami Bites.
Yes.
Yeah.
That was.
Thank you.
Yeah, that one was a lot of fun.
And, you know, the book came out great.
The campaign went gangbusters.
And so I think we were like,
what can we do next with her?
And I don't honestly remember how we came
up with the idea of doing Christmas
Carols.
I think part of it is we've always
tended to launch either Nightmare Theater,
which is our horror anthologies,
or Carmilla in October,
like Halloween time,
even though we did Miami Bites in the
beginning of this year.
So we thought, well,
are we going to do another one in
October?
uh let's go for the holidays and let's
bridge the holidays i know the holidays
aren't traditionally like where you want
to launch a kickstarter although we
noticed today there was like literally
like one kickstarters going like i had no
idea you just never know um yeah and
you really never know how these things are
gonna go but it seems like there is
an audience thirst for carmilla uh the
character i i think the idea of taking
this novella and this character that has
these
you know very Victorian kind of um
conservative kind of uh stories that are
that are you know kind of
close to the vest.
They're not crazy, right?
Like,
I don't know if you saw the movie
Carmilla in twenty nineteen or even some
of the other offshoots.
And I know Amy Chu did a book,
Carmilla, and people with it a little bit.
But we wanted to really take her and
and extrapolate some of the almost
superpowers that she has from that
novella.
I mean, she can move through walls.
She can move through objects.
She can turn.
No, I think I'm
Carmilla like justice compared to any
other material that may be out there right
now on her I think y'all have taken
her and elevated her to a whole new
level well thank you for saying that we
appreciate it so it's nice to hear people
that actually have checked the book out
and like it and and you know there's
things that you could do with this that
might just fall into the trap of
everything else you see with the sexy
vampire book but we wanted to really
kind of turn it on its head yeah
there is sex and violence obviously but
the reason we set carmela's in was it
was the modern dawn of women's rights and
so the idea was that how long can
a vampire live until she finds meaning and
in her meaning it's like who do i
kill am i just gonna feed on young
girls like she does in the novella or
is she gonna start taking out larger
targets
And so those targets grow.
And the idea that you could jump around
with a vampire into any era is kind
of fun too.
You don't have to say this is issue
one, two, three, four, five,
and kind of cram it together.
You can just move around and follow the
narrative in a fractured kind of timeline,
which is a lot of fun because you
can just choose whatever.
I just thought the holiday idea just
worked really well.
And like the covers we were able to
get for this,
like the tie-ins have been fantastic.
The covers were great for this book.
I was trying to,
just like everybody else probably was
earlier today when the book launched,
then I got home and I finally had
five minutes to breathe and sit down.
I was like,
which cover do I want now?
And I'm like,
you do the standard scroll and you're
like, scroll back up and you're like,
Damn.
Why are they going to make this difficult?
Chairman, it's like a Pokemon.
You've got to get them all.
That's right.
You've got to catch them all.
There's a tier for it.
Yeah, we're evil like that.
We like to make it tough.
It's the best kind of evil, though.
It's the best kind of evil.
I mean, Pokemon does it.
Why not y'all?
That's right.
That's right.
But what made y'all decide to go back
to Elaniser Scrooge?
Or Elaniser Spooge?
Spooge, yeah.
For this one.
That's a mouthful, so to speak.
It's a mouthful.
Not a really nice mouthful, actually.
So to speak.
That's why you got the so to speak
on there.
What did y'all revisit with him?
I mean, it's a great character,
and I love it,
and it's cool that you're kind of like
reaching back and pulling him
Well, I mean, so like Dave said,
I mean,
the idea behind the whole Carmilla series,
right,
is that she's like a vampire Dexter.
She only kills the bad guys.
And so we thought Ebenezer Scrooge... Now,
I don't even know their names anymore.
I'm getting them confused.
Ebenezer Scrooge was sort of...
you know,
would have been someone she would have
gone after, you know, uh,
here's a miserly guy who treats his
employees very poorly.
And, uh, and so that's exactly the,
the kind of person that she would try
to take out.
And so, um, you know, I,
I think in my original conception that
this was just going to be a fairly
straightforward Dickens adaptation, uh,
that was the idea.
And so, uh,
Dave had the brilliant idea of, uh,
of making him Elanizer Spooge,
which I am compelled to say that bears
no resemblance to anyone living or dead.
Yeah.
The lawyers have called, Clay, please.
Yes, sir.
No, no.
The disclaimer is out there.
But it is also like,
who is the modern day equivalent of
Scrooge, right?
This guy doesn't give the charity.
He
He hates Christmas.
He just hates everything.
He just seems miserable,
even though he's fabulously wealthy.
Like what kind of miserable person do you
have to be to be that rich and
still be that miserable?
Right.
So let we delve into that a little
bit.
Yeah.
And so we have.
And again,
he bears no resemblance to anyone living
or dead.
Yeah.
So we also did some play on words.
It's like not Bob Cratchit.
It's Barb Ratchett is his assistant,
his beleaguered assistant.
It's not Tiny Tim.
It's Petite Pete is her son who's got
like some paternity issues, you know,
and it just it just was it kind
of worked effortlessly.
It just kind of flowed and.
And it worked.
You just had to add some sideburns and
some, you know, some tech stuff.
And it was a lot of fun.
And I think Eric Tamayo,
who did the artwork,
it just looks really amazing.
And Alex Seif did the colors.
And they really like working on these
books.
And I think they really hit it out
of the park with this one,
as did all the cover artists.
See,
I told y'all just before we went live
that y'all would probably answer some
questions as we went,
and that was going to be not the
next question, but the one right after.
Which was what?
Hit me.
What was it?
Eric Tamayo and Alex Zeef's colors and
their art.
Which is phenomenal, as always.
They're having fun, and it shows.
And I think it really comes through in
the scripts, too,
because I feel like these books kind of
write themselves.
I mean, don't you, Dave?
It's sort of like,
how did this all come together?
They do because it was fun.
I think we,
we bounced stuff off of each other.
There was even like the idea of like,
you know, he's obsessed with going to,
I think Clay was like, well,
he should be going to Mars.
I was like, not Mars.
Like, let's make it Uranus.
And then like, you know, the,
the assistants, like you're,
you're obsessed with going to Uranus.
No one wants to go to Uranus.
It stinks, you know, like,
so you're able to just do like these
play on words.
And even, even the idea of like Dickens,
we're able to say like, you know,
no Dickens required or, or, you know,
uh get your dickens out it's time for
carmilla's uh christmas carol like it's
just it's just fun play on words and
holiday stuff and so we had a lot
of fun with it i know that the
artist did and they really went for it
like there's a lot in this book where
clay and i would be like is this
too much should we scale this back should
we put a word bubble over this part
but
You know,
I think people kind of know what they're
getting with this book,
but it's it's also a little more than
that.
Like, we really like to lean.
My background's in comedy and very dark
comedy a lot of times.
And so I love satire and I love
kind of sticking it to the band.
And Carmilla just kind of like you can
do whatever you want with her because she
doesn't give a shit.
She's just awesome.
And so it's really fun to like just
turn up the volume on her and let
her go wild.
yeah we we leaned into the comedy this
time a little bit more which uh which
we really haven't i mean not not that
the other books have been super serious
but yeah but they they had their moments
you know it was like the one-liners and
the zingers and the fun stuff like that
yeah for sure for sure but we kind
of amped that up i you know everything's
kind of kind of turned up to eleven
in this one though like like final tap
yeah as it should have been so
We have our classic goes to past,
present and future.
And I can already know y'all turn that
up to his loving as well.
How does your version twist that
tradition?
Because I know y'all gave it a delicious
twist in there.
And just how gorgeous did y'all make these
ladies for this book?
Very gorgeous.
Yeah, you know, we thought about this.
It really started to come together,
I think, in nineteen eighty four.
This idea that Carmilla has the book,
not the year we were not.
We weren't we weren't.
I wasn't thinking of this with the book.
Carmilla, nineteen eighty.
I mean,
you could have been fourteen thinking
about this.
Probably.
Yeah.
Years in the book.
No, yeah, sorry.
In Carmilla Unbound,
which was our previous issue, Miami Bites,
aka Miami Bites,
we really started to explore this idea
that Carmilla,
because she's been around for so long,
she has been putting together this network
of like-minded associates,
these other vampires who kind of want to
help her out.
Um, and, and, you know,
maybe at some point we'll go back and
we'll sort of explore kind of how that
came together possibly between and ,
which are the two one shots we've done
so far.
Um, but, uh,
but we really kind of introduced that
concept in and so, uh, we decided, uh,
let's make those associates her,
her ghosts.
Her helpers in this are in Carmilla,
Eighty-Four.
And we kind of laid the groundwork with
this in Nightmare Theater, too.
There's a short story that I wrote called
Carmilla Comes Again,
and it's set in Seventy-Three in San
Francisco.
And she's looking for... I mean,
if you know the novella Carmilla,
she's looking for her lost love.
Her love in that book is named Laura.
And so she's kind of looking for the
reincarnation of her lost love.
So she's on this, like...
journey of unrequited love to find someone
that that is her, you know,
and she's also being hunted by her maker.
So there's this duality of like looking
for true love,
but while on the run from her,
from her maker and her mother's maker.
And the idea of having helpers and
assistants that are vampires and like kind
of that's who brings her out of the
grave in the beginning of this book.
And they are included on the Kickstarter.
For those wondering,
you can actually see that in the preview.
Right.
Yes.
It's an awesome way to just kind of
give them that little bit of.
Little sugar on top right there,
right in the beginning.
A little Easter egg is I did a
story in Nightmare Theater,
three D that Eric Tamayo did the,
the artwork for,
and it's called unhappy endings.
And it's a very dark short story,
but it's a, you know, in the story,
a guy goes to like a spa,
it's called spa succubus.
And he finds on the dark web and
he,
I don't know if I should spoil the
story,
but Carmilla has a little cameo in that,
like there's a picture on the wall of
this spa that she runs where,
should I spoil that story, Clay?
I don't think anyone cares, right?
People may want to buy the book.
Okay.
If you get Nightmare Theater,
there is a Carmilla cameo,
but the story is great and it's,
it's very twisted and dark,
but that's somehow tied into it too.
Those,
those assistants are also appear in that
story.
It's great that you can just tie
everything from this little universe
together in it.
No matter what year it's in,
it all makes sense and it all works
out so well.
And that's what's great about writing
vampire stories, right?
Is that you can, like,
remember that one thing we did from ten
years ago and you can reach back in
there and pull it back over into today.
So that's really dope that you're able to
flirt with that, so to speak.
Yeah.
And you know,
I don't know if a ton of stories
do that.
I remember Interview with the Vampire.
I like that part of it in that
aspect.
And even the first couple seasons of True
Blood, if you ever watched that.
My favorite stuff was seeing Bill in the
twenties in Chicago.
And it's like, yes.
And they have a weariness.
They have this vampire weariness of, like,
I am tired of life,
and they're trying to find meaning.
And so our idea was to take Carmilla
to what is her meaning.
It is to, like,
I'm going to try to make the world
a better place by killing bad guys.
And the longer I live, the richer,
literally and figuratively,
my targets become.
And so in this one,
it's kind of like the top target.
And Rice's books do the same thing.
Like,
it seems like – I know they got
Liz Statt making his premiere this year in
the new season.
Yeah.
And that dude just, like,
he happy on the outside and just
absolutely a miserable person on the
inside.
Just like a clown.
A killer clown.
A killer clown, that's right.
Yeah, Welcome to Derry has been fantastic.
I don't know if y'all are watching that
one, but... I haven't checked it out yet,
but it's on the list.
I haven't yet.
It's on the list, too.
Yeah.
Bump it to the top.
That one's been great.
So we hit it on it earlier.
You got some fantastic variant covers from
artists like Emmanuel Taglietti, Flops,
and Metzi Funk going on for this book.
How is that deciding who do we want
to reach out to to see if they
want to do a variant for this book?
I imagine that has to be a difficult
decision to make.
Well,
it's always tough because when you know so
many artists, you want to use everybody.
And you want everybody to come play in
the sandbox.
And unfortunately,
it's like you can go overboard on the
variant covers.
We like to try to limit them.
You know,
we do like making it difficult for you
to make a choice of which one to
get.
Mission accomplished.
But we don't like having too many choices.
I mean,
partly because it's just a lot of work
to get them put up on the page.
Yeah.
Especially when you have, you know,
variations on the variation.
But, you know,
there were certain people that we
definitely wanted, like, you know...
The Emmanuel Taglietti, I think,
was the first one we got.
We had contacted him about getting a cover
for Nightmare Theater Volume One.
And he sent us a few options.
And we were like, well,
none of these work for Nightmare Theater.
But this one is perfect for Carmilla.
This is, I mean,
absolutely perfect for Very Carmilla
Christmas Carol.
And so we told him, you know, okay,
yeah, we want this one.
but give us some more options for
Nightmare Theater.
So he was the first that we locked
down.
And then I think- And it's our first
Tagliati for Carmilla.
He's only done our Nightmare Theater
books.
Okay.
And we had done a reprint of volume
one recently with a Tagliati cover.
It's beautiful.
And so you could get volume one, two,
and three of just the Tagliati hardcovers.
But this is his first Carmilla one that
we have, which is pretty cool.
Go ahead, Clayton.
Oh yeah.
No, I, I, then I'm,
I'm not even sure who came in next,
but, um, you know, we,
there's a stable of people that we do
kind of like to,
to work with as much as possible.
You know, Mexifunk, uh,
turns out some great stuff.
Flops always, uh, turns in great work,
you know, and, and,
and they have fan bases that they bring
along, but then we also,
there are other people that we want to
work in and work with.
And anyway, Dave, uh,
No, no, it's Suspiria Land.
Yeah, that was the other one.
I wasn't sure how to pronounce that one.
I always have trouble with it,
but it's from the movie Suspiria,
which is a really cool,
if you've ever seen it, check it out.
I think I have.
It's an Italian horror movie that is just
beautifully shot.
This has been my year of discovery for
Italian horror, not just like comic books,
but also on the cinema side as well.
Well, yeah,
I would say check that out because it
is it's beautifully shot like it's just
something it's mesmerizing, really.
So her stuff is just so evocative of
like those old school posters and like,
you know,
we reached out to her because I read
an interview with her at fan base press
and I loved her work.
And so we just kind of reached out
and she was totally into it.
She loves horror.
Right.
So some of these artists tend towards
horror anyhow.
So you're kind of like,
if they want to work with that and,
you know,
sometimes you see them doing Vampirella
stuff, that's not covers,
but they're like,
I would love to do a Vampirella cover.
So I was like, well,
Carmilla predates Vampirella.
Let's, let's, let's have her,
let's have them get in there.
So, yeah.
And, and she's, her stuff is fantastic.
And who else, Clay,
did we bring along this time?
There was one new, well, Eric,
Eric did a cover for us.
And then also.
Yeah.
Colored by Finn Cram.
Oh, Daria Heim.
It's our first cosplay cover, which is,
yeah, we have some other ones and she's,
she gave us some fantastic pictures.
And so we're,
Those were hard to choose from with the
cover for that as well.
And that's a new thing that's kind of
started in the last couple of years with
Vampirella and Red Sonja.
They've been the two biggest ones I've
seen going with cosplay covers.
So it's kind of cool to kind of
see those making appearance in books now.
And she reached out to us.
It was like, you know, she's like,
do you guys would you like a cosplay?
We haven't really thought about it.
And this just seemed perfect to do that
with because, you know,
a lot of the cosplay loves playing
vampires and the blood and everything
else.
And they can really act in it,
you know.
And so that stuff's great.
And then we just thought, well,
if we're going to do that and some
of these other things,
this is the campaign to do it on.
Like, let's just go nuts with it.
We really tried to, like,
put everything into this campaign.
Mission accomplished.
Cause like I said,
like I may still go back and go
back to the Kickstarter and pick out a
couple of more covers.
If I'm just being honest with myself,
because yes, I made my decision,
but I'm sitting there here,
like even now talking to y'all, I'm like,
I kind of want that one cover too.
So I love that whenever the covers are
just so good.
And I like those darker,
like creepy covers, you know?
So for me,
it's like the hardest decisions ever is
picking a good horror cover whenever,
especially in October when all the good
horror comic books are hitting the
shelves.
And I'm just like, Oh, but that cover,
I'm like, yeah, but that one cover,
that's a prison cover on the, um,
hello darkness.
And,
decisions that are like,
but they're so fun to make.
So for readers new to Carmilla Unbound,
is this a perfect jump on spot for
the series?
Or would y'all recommend going back and
catching up with the other two?
Well, you gotta catch them all.
Perfect answer.
But I will say these are all one
shots.
So you get a complete story in every
single issue.
So if you pick up Nineteen Seventy Three,
you got a complete story.
You pick up Nineteen Eighty Four,
you got a complete story.
You pick up A Very Carmilla Christmas
Carol, you get a complete story.
Um,
they all sort of have subtle nods to
each other, you know,
as we're building and, um,
and you can kind of see connective tissue
between them, or you can maybe go, Oh,
how did she, you know, she ended here,
but how did she get to this point
in and we can always go in,
go back in and fill,
fill in the gaps at some point,
you know, we,
we are sort of telling a, uh,
a bigger story on a bigger tapestry but
uh but yes we we very deliberately try
to make these all a perfect jumping on
point perfect i like it um so holiday
horror is a very specific niche you either
hit it or you drop it like it's
hot and it's it doesn't work for people
What separates a very Carmilla Christmas
Carol from the other guys out there
bringing in a holiday horror into the
world, you know,
during the holiday season?
Clay, you want to take that?
You know what?
You unmuted,
so I'm going to let you talk.
I'll start, and if I suck,
you can fill in.
You're doing great so far.
Well, no,
it's just that A Christmas Carol is a
gothic horror story,
and I think doing the research into this,
because we did do research.
I watched a lot.
I read the book again, and like...
The George C. Scott TV version is,
I think,
one of the great versions of Christmas
Carol.
And I was surprised at how kind of
scary it was,
like how they how they played with that
horror.
And I also watched the FX one,
which was just a couple of years ago
with Guy Pearce.
And they did something totally different
with it as well.
And I think it was just natural to
lean into the horror elements of it and
then bringing her in.
And having her have a backstory with this
guy and then making him a version of,
you know,
a modern day CEO tech titan guy.
Who bears no resemblance to anyone living
or dead.
Right, right, right.
So it's just like.
the idea of that story is already kind
of a horror story.
So it's not like, Oh,
this is a character, you know,
this is our race car driver and we're
just going to make it a Christmas horror
thing.
You know, it's, it's,
it kind of had it baked in already
and it just seemed,
it just seemed perfect to do it this
time of year.
Yeah.
What Dave said.
I like it.
No,
I love when like the holiday season gets
good horror,
especially the Christmas season where
we're all supposed to be happy and,
you know, in the spirit.
And I'm like, yeah,
but if we slid some horror in there,
it would be even better.
I forgot to mention like black Christmas
is one of my favorite horror movies.
And I think Clay likes that one as
well.
Yeah.
Clay did a book a while ago called
red Xmas, which is really cool.
Like he could tell you more about that,
but it's,
he seems to have an affinity for Christmas
and horror.
He says it goes together like chocolate
and peanut butter.
That's right.
He's not wrong on that one.
Chairman.
Have you seen black Christmas?
I have it.
I'm going to have to check that one
out.
The original, the original remake.
Yeah.
The original seven or three little fun
fact.
It was directed by Bob Clark of a
Christmas story fame and the same
cinematographer.
So when you watch it,
it looks a little like a Christmas story,
except it's Margot Kidder's in it.
And Kira Dole,
who was in two thousand one,
like it's got a great cast,
but it's considered one of the first
slasher movies.
Right, Clay?
I think it's considered one of the- It's
definitely one of the first.
Olivia Hussey, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The girl from Romeo and Juliet,
Ziveretti's Romeo and Juliet.
And Norman Bates' mom in Psycho IV.
It's just well done.
It's really like sharp and it's sharp and
funny and dark and like-
And Halloween,
Carpenter's Halloween was heavily
influenced by Black Christmas.
So I'd say if you love horror and
it's kind of the season,
like check that one out.
I believe it's streaming on a couple of
sites.
Yeah, that's a great one.
That's definitely going to, that's,
you just gave me my weekend plan for
at least one day.
Cool.
Yeah, and I think for me, like,
I mean,
Black Christmas is definitely up there,
but that's something I've only seen,
you know, in the last five years.
Whereas, like,
Gremlins made a huge impression on me.
And Phoebe Cates giving the monologue
about finding her father stuffed in the
chimney.
You know,
he dressed up like Santa and was gonna
surprise them and then got stuck in the
chimney.
And that's why she hates Christmas.
Um, that's like, that to me is,
is perfect.
That, that it's, it's black comedy.
Uh, there's, it's there, it's horror, uh,
and it's also Christmas.
And so something about that for me just,
uh, really, really struck a chord.
So yeah, I do.
I think it makes the horror more
horrifying because it's happening during a
season of joy and togetherness.
And like, it's,
it's playing against what you expect.
And, and I think when like,
silent night, deadly night came out.
Like when that trailer came out,
people were like, what is this?
Like, are you kidding me?
So yeah,
I mean that it has a history of,
of that's there, you know,
for horror and Christmas.
And we just wanted to kind of take
it another step further.
So this series is inspired by Sheridan Le
Fanu's erotic novella,
which is a predecessor to Dracula.
Why is Carmilla such a powerful figure for
modern audiences other than the cool fact
that she happened before Dracula did?
Little Known Fat,
which is now fat and now everybody knows.
Now everybody knows it because of our
book.
Forget all these other adaptations.
Exactly.
I think why she's cool – I mean,
honestly,
I think –
You know,
I think the honest answer is that,
you know,
it was written at a time where they
couldn't come out and say certain things.
And we now live in a time where
you can come out and say those things.
You know, the novella had very,
very strong lesbian undertones.
And, you know...
People now can recognize that and either
be more explicit about it or comment on
it or whatever.
But I think there is sort of like,
there is a fascination with her.
I mean,
I think it's just kind of in the
zeitgeist now, this character.
And certainly like you guys were saying
before,
other people have been doing adaptations
kind of at the same time we have.
So it's definitely something in the air.
She's fascinating.
to people.
And I,
and I think it is just that,
that aspect of like at the time this
was written, you know,
a lot of it had to be coded.
But now,
but now we can tell these stories without,
without being coded.
Right.
It's,
it's in there and there's undertones,
but there's some overtones too.
It's, it's, it's a short novella.
I mean, it's a short book.
It's a novella.
It's not a full long novel,
but it did predate Dracula by at least
twenty-five years,
I think twenty-six years.
And when Clay told me that,
I was like, wait a minute,
you're telling me that there's a
a story that predates Dracula by twenty
five years.
That's about a lesbian vampire.
So we need to take this character and
see what we can do with it and
and really like kind of just amp up
the volume and kind of lean into that
a lot more.
And so
Yeah,
that was that was something I think we
wanted to do to to show us to
show people like, yeah,
she she's a lesbian vampire,
but she's not above, you know,
going to the other side to get what
she wants.
As you see in nineteen eighty four,
it turns out to be, you know,
a surprise.
But like she's just she's just a badass,
like she's just a badass character that
kind of does what she wants because she
can do what she wants.
And I like the idea that she's making
a difference in her own way.
Perfect answer.
Perfect.
How do y'all balance, though,
the erotic elements of the story with
genuine story depth, satire, and horror?
Because it could have went off the rails
in any given direction.
How do y'all think y'all maintained it
just being like this nice,
fine balance of what it is?
I mean,
I think we knew that we wanted to
tell a good story.
First and foremost,
we didn't just want to do a sexy
book just for the sake of doing a
sexy book.
We wanted to sort of make it...
important to the plot, you know,
and that was something that we really gave
a lot of thought to,
particularly in nineteen seventy three,
which was how can we make this how
can we make the sex in the book
actually part of the plot where it became
important and not just, you know,
gratuitous?
So we gave that a lot of thought.
And then so for for nineteen eighty four,
I mean,
it was just sort of building upon that
and extension of that.
And for for a very Carmilla Christmas
Carol, I don't want to give anything away.
No, no.
I wouldn't do that.
A major spoiler,
but I will say that we did find
a way to tie the sex into the
story of A Christmas Carol in a very,
very important way.
And I'll leave it at that.
You will...
Well, we do tell people,
you got to buy the book to find
out the true meaning.
You can unwrap the true meaning of Bah
Humbug.
And so when me and Clay started talking
about it and we were bouncing the ideas
back and forth,
it just started to build and become
funnier and more interesting and also
drive the narrative.
Just that simple phrase, it's like, well,
what does Bah Humbug really mean anyhow?
It's not just say, oh, whatever.
In this case,
it has a specific meaning that is in
the book.
And it's- That relates to Spooge.
That relates to- And this is why we
waited for- Two hundred years.
To start this show.
Right, right.
Even just to say the name,
Elanese or Spooge.
But it's in there.
So if you want to know what the
true meaning of Bah Humbug is,
buy this book.
Get the book.
Got to catch them all.
I like it.
So y'all two formed Bloodline in twenty
nineteen.
What has kept just like creative
partnership going strong and how has that
collaboration evolved through projects
like Nightmare Theater,
Cannibals on Mars and now your third as
the third Carmilla, right?
Yep.
Yeah.
I mean,
I think what keeps it going is we
love doing it.
And I think, you know,
I think with any collaboration,
what's really important is that the...
each person brings their own strengths to
the table and that they're complimentary.
And so it's like, you know,
Dave has strengths that I don't have.
You know,
I may have strengths that he doesn't have
and our weaknesses are not the same.
So it's like,
we're able to cover each other's
weaknesses,
but also add to each other's strengths.
And so I think that makes for a
very potent combination.
And so we've just,
We just seem to work together very well
and are having fun making some books.
Well, we're like Christmas and horror.
We go together like that.
And honestly, Chairman, first of all,
these are great questions.
We appreciate that.
Clay was in a movie I did with
my friend Keith Caloris.
We co-wrote and co-directed a horror film
that got released by Lionsgate back in two
thousand five called Bloodline.
So the reason we're called.
Yeah.
The reason we're called Bloodline Comics
is this horror film called Bloodline.
Clay is an actor and he did a
great job in that.
He was the lead of the movie.
It was basically Friday the thirteenth
meets Memento.
We told like a kind of a straight
story.
Kind of slasher story in a fractured
timeline way.
And it was a low budget movie.
But again,
Lionsgate released it and we're really
proud of it.
I think it still holds up.
So I knew Clay from way back then.
And then when I was starting to think
about doing a comic book called Baby
Badass back in twenty fifteen,
I self-published.
Clay had done a book called P.B.O.W.
Pregnant Bitches of War.
Really cool book.
And it was the same vibe.
So I was asking him questions and I
reconnected with him, I don't know,
was that like ten years later or eight
years later?
Something like that.
We kind of stayed in touch,
but then I started asking him questions
and I was reading his books.
I was like, wow,
this guy does great stuff.
And it's kind of like the stuff I
like.
So when the pandemic hit,
I think it was twenty twenty when we
did Nightmare Theater.
And we're like, let's do this.
Let's do an anthology.
Let's get all these people we know in
the comic book world,
in the indie comic world.
And everyone said yes.
So we had like thirty three teams of
creators that made that book.
And I think it was really smart to
to do that as our first venture,
because with all those teams,
you get a pretty big Kickstarter campaign.
uh,
brew going like all these different people
and creators and artists and race.
So they all back the book.
And, you know,
when you do a good job with it,
and we've always tried with bloodline to
treat our creators really well,
to pay them,
to appreciate them and the artists,
and then to put out really good product.
We don't do a lot of product.
So when we do it,
we try to put a lot of care
into it and not just do like these
little quick one-offs.
That works.
And you answered my very next question,
which I was going to be mentioning that
clay, your actor in a,
And you've done voice acting as well.
And David,
you as well from film and comedy and
TV writing and kind of like how your
individual skill sets kind of clash or
compliment each other and see what I did
there.
Yeah, see, I mean,
that's and that is why we work well
together.
And I think it is.
You know, I
I think that experience of having worked
together, you know,
twenty something years ago, I mean,
that also informs it, you know,
like sometimes
sometimes you try to form partnerships
with people and it doesn't quite work out
or whatever.
And, and it's like, Dave and I have,
we have a history, you know,
Alexander O'Philippe,
who I co-wrote PBOW with and Deadskins and
Red Xmas that we were talking about
earlier.
He and I have,
we went to college together, you know,
I've known him since I was eight.
So, you know, there,
there is a history there that does,
that does make things easier because there
is a trust, you know, I mean, it's,
Dave and I didn't know each other well.
We didn't know each other at all when
we did Bloodline.
And we only knew each other so well
once the project was over because it was
a very intense project and he was busy
co-directing this thing and co-producing
it.
And I was busy trying to remember my
lines.
But...
Having said that,
I think I could see how he approaches
a creative project.
I knew what it was like to work
with him.
I knew that he could get a project
to the finish line.
I knew that he wasn't going to get
mad halfway through and pick up his ball
and go home.
You can kind of see who
who people are through through working
with them and so like i knew that
this would be a guy that would be
a good person to work with i knew
that he would he would get things to
the finish line i knew that you know
we could get along personally you know we
i don't even know if dave remembers but
we bonded over uh talking about wilco uh
and he he bought me the uh the
wilco dvd um
Oh shit.
I forgot about that.
Yeah.
No, we,
we had a lot of the same sensibilities
and that,
and I saw that when I was reading
PBOW, I was like,
this is a lot like baby badass.
This is just like dark humor, smart,
dark humor.
Like I, you know,
Clay went to NYU and like is a
trained writer.
I, I'm a little more like out there.
And as my friend, Christian Horner,
who co-created baby badass with me,
he's like,
Dave has a lot of great ideas,
but he also has a lot of crazy
ideas like that.
So Clay can kind of like pull that
back a little bit.
But like even with Carmilla,
like we just bounce stuff off of each
other and like, oh, that's great.
That's perfect.
And it just seems to work really well.
There's no like butting of heads or any
kind of jealousy about this or that and
sharing credit.
Like it just seems to work really well.
And knock on wood,
it continues because this seems to be
trending to be one of our bigger projects.
And that's what we wanted to do.
We want to keep growing it,
make it bigger and better.
So we can expect future arcs from Carmilla
in the near, dear future?
If you buy all the covers,
we're going to have to.
I've already did that just about.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, for sure.
I mean,
you'd be crazy not to follow up a
success, right, with more.
Well,
because you can tell different stories,
right?
Like,
it's not like you're just repeating the
same story.
She's definitely a character where you can
explore just about anything you want to.
Absolutely.
You can set her in, you know, whatever,
twenty-one, twenty-two.
Like,
just whatever you want to do with Carmela,
you can kind of go back and forth
all the way back.
We may do...
an origins story, you know, like that,
that might be really cool.
Um, and, and,
and kind of get back into that traditional
thing.
One of the ideas we have was with
Jack the Ripper, like she was gonna, um,
you know, like stock him or something.
So there's,
there's just things you can do that are
really fun and X and explore and expand.
And,
and this was just kind of a natural
progression to do this one.
And, uh, we'll see what comes next.
Dark horse just did a Jack the Ripper
series.
That was really good.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
Who did that?
I could Google it because I'd have to
Google it.
That's okay.
I can Google it later.
I have the same Google you have.
Trust them.
It was good.
It was good.
It was good.
So what else is going to be coming
from y'all here in the last quarter of
twenty twenty five early twenty twenty
six?
Anything else outside of Carmilla coming
from Bloodline?
well we've uh it may be a little
too early to announce anything uh we do
yeah i don't want you to spoil nothing
before you need to yeah yeah wait clay
is blood of the grunge still going or
did it did it end uh we actually
have we have two more days there's two
more days clay wrote a book called blood
of the grunge and it is awesome i'll
let him tell you about it but it's
got two more days and it is it
is really badass also on kickstarter yeah
also on kickstarter two more days
Yep.
Right now.
It's we've got about forty two hours to
go.
It's surreal modern horror for mature
readers.
That's the White Lotus meets Midsommar.
Yeah, we got some good.
We got some sick man.
Great covers by Andrea Daly.
Flops also gave us some covers.
And then we have one by the interior
art team of Fabio Ramacci and Ilaria
Kiyoka, who worked with me on Red Xmas.
So they're back for more mischief and
mayhem.
But yeah, that's bit.ly slash grunch one,
which I think is G-R-U-N.
N G R U N C H one.
I can't spell.
Just look up blood of the grunge
Kickstarter.
You'll find it.
Even if you misspell it,
I'm sure it'll take you straight to it.
yes grunch one g-r-u-n-c-h one um yeah
four we got forty two hours left but
yeah that's that's a lot of fun it's
uh i really wanted to do something kind
of uh you know in the vein of
white lotus but uh you know what if
there was a monster on that island
terrorizing these uh rich people um that's
awesome
It came, yeah, it came out great.
I'm actually really proud of this,
this script.
I've actually written the whole series.
It's a three issue series.
You know,
I usually kind of like write things and
issue at a time and then kind of
come, come back to it.
Like I have the whole plot in my
head, but it's like, you know,
I'll do an issue here or there,
but this one,
I just kind of sat down and wrote
all the way through.
And,
and I think that really kind of helped
make it.
You got to go back to back with
it.
Yeah,
we're going to try to put them out
as quickly as we can.
It really,
really depends on the art team how quickly
they can turn things around.
They have already finished the first
issue,
so it's a hundred percent complete or I
guess ninety nine point nine percent
complete.
There are
one or two coloring tweaks we need to
make,
a couple of artistic tweaks that we need
to have happen.
One,
which is actually to sort of help better
set up something in the third issue.
And so it's like,
we couldn't do that if I hadn't finished
the script, but because I have,
we can go in and just alter.
It's just like a very slight thing,
a slight alteration of one panel,
but that'll actually help something pay
off a little bit better further down the
road.
yeah that's been it that's been a great
project uh editor uh frank pittarisi is uh
great he's great to work with i've worked
with him on a bunch of stuff and
so uh he's he's really brought some great
things out of this team
Clay is a little more prolific than I.
I don't have too much lined up,
although I co-wrote a book with Peter
Murrieta called Rafael Garcia Henchman,
which is a really cool series.
And Titan Comics is going to be releasing
that in twenty.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
So that's exciting for those who don't
know.
That's that's gun honey territory.
So that's good.
Good company.
Yeah.
No, we're excited about that.
We're getting some covers done.
It's a three issue arc.
and with a second volume to follow,
but we're excited about that.
And then there's more Carmilla.
We'll probably do something in the
nightmare theater realm.
We may do, you know,
it's not gonna be a full anthology,
but it may be like a nightmare theater
presents.
We wanna kind of keep that going.
um and the characters from that that we
created uh shelly post stoker is the
hostess of that film festival of souls you
know and so there's a lot to explore
with that too but trust trust me we
will be coming back with more carmilla not
too much but just enough sometimes you
just gotta throw that tease out there
gentlemen where can everybody find y'all
at if they want to either get in
contact with y'all or just keep up with
what y'all have going on over at bloodline
comics
Well, I am, uh, still on Twitter,
believe it or not.
I refuse to call it X,
but I'm still on Twitter, uh,
at clay's evil twin.
And I'm also on sub stack.
Yeah.
I'm also on sub stack, uh,
clay Adams dot sub stack.com.
And, um,
fried comics.com you can find some of my
other stuff uh blazing blade of
frankenstein and dream quest uh you can
find that at our at our store and
uh and on kickstarter at fried comics i
am on instagram and blue sky at
schraderopolis and uh also at bloodline
comics and at bloodline comics pictures
you can find us there and follow along
Perfect.
So as the candle fades and this final
whisper settles into dark,
we wrap up this launch day descent into
gothic holiday madness.
A massive thank you to Clay and David
for allowing me the opportunity to host
your own launch day for Carmilla, which,
by the way,
is a hundred percent funded and still
going strong last time I checked.
Thank y'all for coming on and talking to
the Council of Nerds here about Carmilla
and giving us a little bit more background
on what Carmilla is.
And as always,
y'all go hit that Kickstarter,
type in Barry Carmilla Christmas Carol.
Go give us some love.
You won't be disappointed.
Lots of covers to choose from,
both PG and rated R.
I'll leave it at that.
So with that...
Whether it's horror, sci-fi, fantasy,
or something gloriously unholy,
the USDN podcast is where Indy's comments
come to life.
And with that, everybody,
we are signing off.
Gentlemen, again, thank you so much.
Thank you, Chairman.
Thank you very much, Chairman.