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Interviewing indie founders about their journey and their products. itslaunchday.com
Dagobert Renouf (00:01)
Hey, Sabir, welcome to lunch day,
Sabyr (00:04)
Hi, Dago. Hi everyone. Thank you for having me.
Dagobert Renouf (00:08)
Yeah, is it Sabir? Do I pronounce that right?
Sabyr (00:11)
Yeah, 100%.
Dagobert Renouf (00:14)
So we were talking last week ⁓ about you're close to China. That's what I remember. I forgot the country.
Sabyr (00:25)
Kazakhstan. It is very close to Russia and also to China too. It's like borders of countries.
Dagobert Renouf (00:27)
Guys, that's not like a cool.
Yeah, yeah, Russia and China. Well, how does it impact your culture when you're surrounded by two big empires like this? Does it?
Sabyr (00:44)
⁓
Sometimes it's scary, yeah, because when something happens in their side, it can happen in your too. But overall, I think we kind of trying to be friendly, because it's kind of, think, ⁓ diplomatic maybe way to be natural, not to be like inside anything like... ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (00:55)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Sabyr (01:12)
like in any danger positions. Because we have a big country, it's like a nine-byte size, but we have only like 20 million of people. ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (01:21)
Yeah, a few people in a big country, yeah. How is it there? Is it kind of hot? How is the weather and everything? Can you paint a picture of Kazakhstan? I'm curious.
Sabyr (01:23)
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. To be honest with you, Kazakhstan is very big. So if you just go move to different parts of Kazakhstan, you can see very hot summer, ⁓ close to 40 degrees. And if you go to north side, it could be right now 20...
Dagobert Renouf (01:44)
Thank
Sabyr (01:50)
degrees and it's like very different. If you go for example to the west it will be like a lot of meat, like if you go to the east it will be like a lot of nature. it's kind of like very very... I think by train if you go... I am in kind of like ⁓ warm part of my country. It's kind of like...
Dagobert Renouf (01:50)
yeah, okay.
And you're in the east, I think you're on the east part.
Sabyr (02:21)
South side it's Almaty it's one of the biggest city it's not the capital but it's one of the biggest so it's kind of where people most like hang out like walking mountains etc
Dagobert Renouf (02:36)
And you've always lived there, you're born from here.
Sabyr (02:39)
Not to be honest, I moved here when I was 18 because of my study. I was born in the West part. It's kind of like oil, not a of people, but there lot of oil.
But universities mostly like in Almaty and Astana. Astana is like capital of the city. So that's why I moved.
Dagobert Renouf (03:11)
I see.
Yeah, I knew that name. I knew the name.
Did you travel around the world yet?
Sabyr (03:23)
Yeah, I have been last year in Europe. I have been in France. I have been in Netherlands in Germany Yeah, right now. I'm even in Turkey with family like it's kind of like vacation also next month I Basically will move to the southeast Asia Yeah, we already like
Dagobert Renouf (03:30)
⁓ cool, yeah.
You're moving?
Sabyr (03:48)
Yeah, moving to Southeast Asia. We sold almost our stuff, almost possible stuff. ⁓ First, destination is Vietnam, Da Nang. But after that, I'm thinking about Thailand and maybe some places to see also, near those countries.
Dagobert Renouf (03:56)
Wow, where are you moving to?
Did you do that for
like, because Danang is popular for indie makers because it's like less expensive, there's a community there, is that the reason?
Sabyr (04:21)
⁓ Yeah, to be honest, I'm thinking to change the environment because I also ⁓ signed all the resignation papers because I'm currently on 9 to 5. And I basically want to focus on my SaaS, on my products because I think ⁓ I have currently focused on my products. I'm growing, I'm building, but I think it's not enough.
Dagobert Renouf (04:33)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sabyr (04:49)
For me personally, it's kind of, I think, good way because I have like a runway of three years, maybe even more right now. So it's kind of, yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (04:50)
Yeah.
Awesome.
So you looked at Danang and you can, okay, so cool. So what's your job, Like what's your job? What's your nine to five?
Sabyr (05:07)
I basically like web developer, like my background is web development, yeah, it's kind of... But I self-taught, like my university degree I should be to be honest like in the, know, kind of... ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (05:10)
Okay, yeah, the usual.
Sabyr (05:23)
like factory, I should be working like a ⁓ physical engineer. yeah, but ⁓ in the university, I understood that it's not my thing. So I basically like started learning like coding and after that I like ⁓ applied to job, got like internship, like learned something like, and basically it's how I started.
Dagobert Renouf (05:27)
manually. Yeah, okay.
That's awesome, And so once you started doing that, when did you start wanting to build your own thing? How did that happen?
Sabyr (05:57)
⁓ Yeah, basically I started ⁓ one year ago ⁓ It was to be honest like very spontaneous very random thing because I saw like on YouTube ⁓ Marco Yvonne also from France ⁓ about like I think he was Going big with ship fast. He was only maybe launched. Maybe it was like on good peak
Dagobert Renouf (06:09)
Yeah.
Sabyr (06:18)
And I basically saw his videos and I told my wife, if he can do it, I can do it too. So it was like how I started.
Dagobert Renouf (06:28)
No, I get you, I feel
the same way when I see someone like, when anybody like, I'm not less smart than this person, I can do it too, why should I not? Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah.
Sabyr (06:37)
And basically I
just find out about like X, about Indie Hacking, about like Peter Wells, about basically community and I set my goal like just to be like consistent, focus on input rather than output like just you know like post every day, build something and ship something. So I basically I think I shipped more than 20 products around one year. Most like most of them failed.
Dagobert Renouf (07:03)
Wow, I didn't know that was so much. I know you
did a bunch, what's the most interesting one that gave you the craziest lesson? The funniest story, like the craziest story from all of these products.
Sabyr (07:07)
Most of them fail, like, miserably fail.
⁓ I'm thinking if ⁓ I speak about SAS, it could be maybe the latest product, like post content, like Reddit schedule. It's like the same, but just two different domains, like to boost SEO. But basically, I learned on this, like SAS, because I was building not like the same before, like one month, just built and forget, like until like... ⁓
I see some sales. But before that, the latest SaaS that I have, I basically started doing like calls. I put like a book call and I think I talked maybe more than to 30 people, like 30 people. And I got a lot of feedback, a lot of...
Dagobert Renouf (08:02)
Wait, wait, what was the
con? Wait, wait, how did you get these calls? I didn't follow.
Sabyr (08:07)
I basically put on landing page like that you can book a call and basically when people because people basically when you build something they don't know you they like don't ask you and They book a call with me. Yes. They book a call with me. I
Dagobert Renouf (08:11)
⁓ cool.
mouth.
Sabyr (08:24)
I listen a lot, because in the beginning I was just talking and I saw that if I talk there is no sales so I basically listen to people like 80, maybe to 20 percent, I'm thinking it's a good ratio. They talk, you listen.
Dagobert Renouf (08:33)
started listening? Yeah.
Sabyr (08:42)
⁓ And basically I started like helping them and a few of them people converted. I think I got maybe 10 sales like monthly. not was it not, it wasn't like one time. Post ⁓ maybe if you, if you type redditscheduler.com. redditscheduler.com. It's basically schedule for Reddit.
Dagobert Renouf (08:52)
For which product was this?
Let's do it.
Sabyr (09:07)
It's white.
Dagobert Renouf (09:07)
Let me just show it because
I like to show what we talk about. ⁓
Sabyr (09:10)
Yeah, no problem.
I can even share a link so you can find it easy.
I chat, I sent in the chat the link.
Dagobert Renouf (09:25)
ready, okay, you send the link, me see. ⁓
Sabyr (09:33)
⁓ It was kind of funny how I built it while I think you are typing because before that I started with agency, Reddit agency. Yeah, I see, I see your screen.
Dagobert Renouf (09:36)
Cool.
So wait, let me just, you see my screen? Let me just quickly.
Schedule Reddit posts for increased views, upvotes, and traffic to your website. Awesome. And at first it was just book a demo. That's what you did.
Sabyr (09:56)
Yeah, I'm a twig.
Yeah, I booked them a call, some like screenshots that I made and after that basically I started kind of introducing.
Dagobert Renouf (10:14)
Yeah, the product we're going to show today, I guess, is a bit similar to that in a way.
Sabyr (10:20)
Yeah, in the same niche basically, in the Reddit space.
Dagobert Renouf (10:26)
That's cool, you know, what you said about, because you know, that made me realize something to listen to you. Because when you see all these websites like contact sales, book a demo, it seems, you know, overwhelming, but what you said is very small. said...
Yeah, but like they don't know you, they don't trust you, so it's to make them trust you once you talk to, and you know, that's actually the strategy with launch day is like by doing these interviews, we show the founders and that's why we get more sales than if it's just products. That's the idea, you know? And it's working, like, I mean, it doesn't work for everyone yet. I'm sure it's gonna be possible, but I'm trying my best, you know? Like this idea of like you meet the person and then,
I don't like, cannot buy from somebody you don't trust. And the problem with Indie hacking is like always new products, always small, mean small and new products, not from existing company. And that creates kind of like, you know, even myself, I rarely buy from Indie makers, if I'm honest, because of this. So we need to bridge that trust problem. Yeah.
Sabyr (11:38)
Yeah, 100%. And what I saw during those conversations, because before that I didn't make any calls with ⁓ potential buyers, I got a lot of feedback. What to improve, what to add. Sometimes even I think there is also a very, ⁓ very thin line when people basically give you feedback.
Dagobert Renouf (11:49)
Yeah.
Sabyr (12:07)
basically they kind of give you feedback about building a new product. if you just ⁓ kind of, because sometimes when I heard, especially in the beginning, I wanted just build like that they want. And what I understood that it's like would be a very different and a new product.
Dagobert Renouf (12:17)
Yeah.
Sabyr (12:26)
So I think it's also good to kind of because you are the founder, you need to understand what is good to you, like as a feedback, what is bad. So we kind of need to understand the differences. Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (12:36)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You need to hold the vision because if you don't hold kind
of like the boundaries of the product, people are gonna, if you just build what people ask, in a few months you have a fucked up product that doesn't make any sense. So you have to, yeah, you are responsible for the...
Sabyr (12:52)
Mm-hmm.
Dagobert Renouf (12:55)
for that and so that's smart to think well then I'm gonna build another product for this other need that people are telling me that's super cool instead of messing up the product, the original product. Yeah, because it was too different. ⁓
Sabyr (13:07)
And also like, yeah,
basically, basically how I built it because like people that I talked to, they kind of like needed what I built and today what I will show you. But what I wanted to tell also and what I did may be different ⁓ with previous that I was talking about that. ⁓
Sometimes I was kind of maybe boldy, like I some kind of bold and maybe because when they ask for some new features, I told them, would you like be open to pay me upfront with a discount? And I will build it for you. Like just, just give me like a few, like days, maybe if it is a big feature, maybe a few weeks. And when I asked them, most of them tell like, let me think.
Dagobert Renouf (13:45)
No, that's smart,
Yeah, and how did it go? How did it go?
Sabyr (13:58)
I need to like yeah yeah because because yeah yeah
Dagobert Renouf (13:59)
But that's so smart, man, that's so smart because it happened to me so many times where you were like, like the more people ask, the less they will buy. And it
took me so long to realize. The more that, because I think I know why, is because the reason they ask is because they are not sure. they are basically not convinced. And so they're asking you, so can you do this? Like.
Sabyr (14:18)
Mm-hmm.
Dagobert Renouf (14:26)
basically it's a sign they are not sure. And so if you tell them, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can, probably not, like it's not gonna solve that they're sure. And so it happened to me, like, you know, I had a logo startup like before, like a few years ago.
Sabyr (14:35)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (14:41)
And some guy was like, ⁓ and you know, we don't do custom logos. We didn't do that. We were focused on generated logos from our tool. And my ex, who was the designer, my co-founder and ex-wife also, and she was the designer and she was making all these designs, but she was making them for our system. Like it was kind of like templates thing, but like more advanced. And one guy was like, this logo is perfect. It just needs, you know, like, ⁓ it have this also?
And my ex was like, yeah, can do it in a few minutes, let me do it. And we do it, and in the end it takes 30 minutes, we do it, we add it, and the guy like, ⁓ well, let me think about it. I'm like, dude, fuck you. We were doing this for you for free, but that was us, that was on us. But yeah, the more people ask questions, yeah. Cool.
Sabyr (15:19)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. 100%. And basically...
the more you understand what they really
need. Yeah, but why I ⁓ did ⁓ kind of pointed this thing? Because sometimes I think maybe they're not like your customers. Because... ⁓
It's good they ask, it's good maybe they give you feedback, maybe they want something. But I told them like if they couldn't pay me, like because maybe they need something like extra, like news that I didn't have. I told them that I'm like a myself guy only, like I'm bootstrapping and I can't do it because let's say I build it like in a few days, like maybe weeks and I will like show you to you, show to you and you won't buy. So it's kind of, think
Because I did something, like sometimes I built because it was kind of maybe not very big I saw them and they kind of disappear maybe maybe they didn't need like that much. They basically just told me so that's Yeah, just shopping and that's why I'm thinking that you kind of also maybe if you can if you maybe have enough both Just ask them upfront give a discount ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (16:28)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. They're just shopping, they're shopping. Yeah.
Sabyr (16:44)
give some ideas. And it's, I think, good because you kind of maybe they know you, you know them. And I think it's kind of how I did it. And those calls really gave me a lot of of insights. And I think from this point, it's good to have like on any SAS that I am building kind of a booking call.
Dagobert Renouf (16:45)
Yeah, 100%.
Sabyr (17:11)
Because when the people come, I know that if they waste their time to be on call, it's kind of maybe they're willing to buy. But maybe they have some questions, so it's kind of maybe doubts about me. Maybe it's a good sign. So because when people, for example, just come to the website and they don't share anything, it's bad sign because maybe they need to move on. So yeah, it's kind of how I did.
Dagobert Renouf (17:18)
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And yeah, it's an investment on their part. For us, it was always like we have a live chat on the website, we used to. And so it's less of a commitment. People were just chatting, yeah, can you do this? You know, it's not the same as booking a call. So it's a good insight that you have that if people book a call.
Sabyr (17:55)
But I also
have live chat. I also have live chat on two websites. And also I started live chatting from previous sites that I was talking because I thought it's good to have maybe some type of conversations because I see almost 1,000 people clicked on the website and I don't see anything. Maybe they don't buy, maybe they don't click, login, etc.
Dagobert Renouf (18:00)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
100%.
You learn so much, at least at the beginning. You learn so much from the live chat. Then once you've learned enough, it's kind of annoying, you can remove it. But it's kind of really cool to learn about the customers. And so from all these 20 websites, so now you're gonna show us your latest one, I'm curious, are they still running? Are they making some money still? Yeah.
Sabyr (18:24)
and the rest some science.
You mean about like the current one? about the... ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (18:52)
Like all of these other products that you
did, are they still online? How is that? Did you keep some online?
Sabyr (18:59)
⁓ That one that I showed you, it is still running. I even have a sale, I think, ⁓ previous month. ⁓ One guy even like, I think on the third maybe month, ⁓ he's using. And they are kind of live, I don't touch them. ⁓ But why, for example, kind of...
Dagobert Renouf (19:14)
Yep.
Sabyr (19:29)
how my focus is working, when I see some sales, when I see some kind of conversions from people, maybe some questions, ⁓ I'm focusing on it. So for example, when I don't have any sales, when I don't have any, I think maybe some signs from customers, ⁓ I just move on. So it's kind of maybe not the best way, I think not the maybe ideal way for everyone.
Dagobert Renouf (19:32)
Yeah.
No, but... Yeah.
Sabyr (19:55)
But I think for me it
kind of working because for example, say one year I'm here, I built like a lot of products, most of them failed. Like I know that there are guys maybe who built maybe in the same period, maybe one, two product and one product maybe is good one, maybe makes, I don't know, like a few thousand monthly recurring revenue. ⁓ But I also know a lot of guys who maybe had also one product, maybe two products during that period and they quit.
Dagobert Renouf (20:05)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Sabyr (20:25)
And I think for example for me it's kind of maybe the same way if maybe I would just focus on one product for whole year I didn't any and I wouldn't have any sales. It's kind of hot, know, like you don't see any like signs so I think maybe That's why I'm doing sometimes I understand that it's maybe not a good like move Like just to skip maybe start a new because we basically start from scratch again
Dagobert Renouf (20:54)
No, but you know,
yeah. I like what you said about if you don't have any signs, it's very hard to keep going. So that's why it's cool to have a live chat, because at least you can get, because I think a big mistake that people make and I definitely made is.
I'm sorry, I just realized I still had my VPN and it's gonna, I hope it doesn't fuck up the recording. I'm sorry, I just got, like, when you,
Like if, like I was building alone without showing to everyone for one year and a half like another product, previous startup.
And it's so, like as soon as I started having people seeing it, it changed everything. Like, know, once you get some signs, like even if it's negative signs, but I think it's like connected to people. And even launch day, like for a while I stopped talking about it and I kind of like forgot about it, like for a few months because I wasn't like connected. It wasn't launched and nobody told me about it. So it was kind of like, if it's not connected to other people, it doesn't exist in a way. It's only for you.
And when it's only for you, you can be motivated for a few months, maybe a few years if it's the beginning. My first startup, had years of motivation in me, but then eventually...
Like once you get like just one customer or even before that just somebody booking a demo or asking questions or giving feedback, man, it changes everything. Like the best is the first sale. Once you have one sale, the whole world changes. Because now it's real, it's useful, it has value. But it's not just about making money, it's about now it's a real thing. You know what I mean?
Sabyr (22:45)
It's kind of, think, being valued of things that you did. It's kind of, I think, a feeling that you are talking about when you basically build something from scratch, someone pays you for that, and you kind of feel amazing because ⁓ it's not even about money, like you said, yeah, it's more about ⁓ being valuable to another person. Because, And... Mm-hmm. Yeah, 100%.
Dagobert Renouf (23:06)
You're useful. Yeah. Yeah, you've been useful. Yeah.
Sabyr (23:15)
Even like about bad feedback, maybe negative feedback, because I also remember when you started like launch day, it's kind of was a lot of like people maybe hated you, kind of, know, like kind of why he didn't shape like and a lot of like that stuff because I saw like, think I saw like a lot of on like feed. ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (23:23)
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess.
Sabyr (23:42)
But I think to be honest with you, right now maybe when I kind of have some experience with building, it's also a good sign. Because sometimes even if you have a bad feedback, it's much better when you don't have any feedback. So it's because if people maybe hate you, if people maybe don't like you, it means that ⁓ there are some rooms for improvement.
Dagobert Renouf (23:58)
Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah.
They somehow still care.
Yeah, somehow they care.
Sabyr (24:07)
Yeah, there are some rooms for improvement and if you make
it better, they kind of like you. Of course, if it is not like haters. But basically, yeah, it's I think...
Dagobert Renouf (24:17)
No, that's
something I noticed also. I noticed, and it's kind of counterintuitive. Let's imagine you have a relationship with someone. mean, any kind of relationship. Okay, there's someone, you know someone. And you never make any mistake. There's never any pain, never any anger, never anything. They will like you at this level, okay? You will have this relationship. Now...
Sabyr (24:28)
Hmm.
Dagobert Renouf (24:44)
if you have someone and you disappoint them or you made a mistake, like for example with your product, like you make a mistake with your product, customer is disappointed, so you go down. And then you show that you give a shit, you fix it, you apologize. Then you go up, but you go higher than you were at the beginning. Because now they see that they can trust you. And if you had never made any mistake,
Sabyr (25:07)
course, you fixed it. ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (25:13)
They will be like, yeah, he's cool, but they don't know how you are. And I noticed that years ago, and that's when I was more willing to take risk. Because I noticed, if you disappoint someone, but then, I mean, you need to have the humility to apologize. And if you have the humility to apologize and to fix things, it's actually better to disappoint someone and then fix it than to just not disappoint them.
Sabyr (25:16)
Yeah, yeah. I'll hand this in.
100 %
Dagobert Renouf (25:41)
And when I realized that, I'm like, holy
shit, I can disappoint people, that's awesome. That's like, cool. If you're willing to apologize, know. Yeah, yeah, that's it, Oh my god.
Sabyr (25:46)
I can fuck up and fix it. because people, I think
people maybe they kind of when you show your face, I also saw like when I was building maybe my personal brand, when you show your face, when you see that you have some also some troubles, maybe some kind of, know, ⁓ failures, maybe some kind of ⁓ miss, I don't know, understanding and you basically...
tell about it the way it is and after that maybe people give some I don't know like some bullshit about like you and you apologize to them I think most like people that are kind of you know ⁓ good people yeah maybe some healthy people they kind of understand your position and they say even better before that because yeah it's kind of maybe
Dagobert Renouf (26:31)
Normal people are healthy.
Yeah.
Sabyr (26:41)
the big comparison between maybe new hacking and like big companies because of that. Because mostly when you maybe have some experience with big companies, you ask them maybe about something they can't, maybe they don't reply, don't fix it. And you have a bad experience just because of that. Not because maybe they have like a mistake, but because they didn't reply. And I think...
Dagobert Renouf (27:01)
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's
it.
Sabyr (27:05)
maybe how we can be better if we have the same mistakes, but we talk to people and fix it. So it's kind of how we should focus.
Dagobert Renouf (27:17)
Yeah, I hear you.
Cool. So you were showing the previous product and that's because of feedback that you get ideas for the product you're gonna show. That's like people give you feedback and so how did it go? Like how did you get to make this current product?
Sabyr (27:35)
Yeah, basically ⁓ when I started my current project
And when I started previous project, it was basically from ⁓ pain that I saw from customers that reached out to me about Reddit agency. Because I run Reddit agency and people basically sometimes ask me about ⁓ service that I don't provide, maybe that I don't have experience with. And I kind of say that I can't do it and maybe because I don't kind of like to
help someone when I don't know how to help. kind of... ⁓ And when I saw a of requests like that, I basically started building a Reddit schedule and the second one that I currently showing socialbrandmonitoring.com because basically people, ⁓ especially with kind of meat or maybe big size companies, they have a lot of...
kind of conversations about the businesses, about the products, feedback, like ⁓ even some leads from social media. And it's kind of hard, I think, to ⁓ track them because even when I do like myself, can spend maybe I go to Reddit, I go to X, I would love to...
Dagobert Renouf (28:52)
Yeah.
Sabyr (29:02)
find maybe some relevant conversations where I can participate, where I can help people. And you spend maybe a few hours just because you are scrolling, maybe you finding something because there is like a social media kind of distracted. And you spend like extra time like on things like that. And yeah, and that's why like I built it kind of this tool to basically solve their problem and mine also.
Dagobert Renouf (29:16)
Yeah, yeah, you're very easily.
Sabyr (29:32)
so I can find ⁓ conversations about your product.
Dagobert Renouf (29:32)
ESE.
So let's
Sabyr (29:45)
Yeah 100 % Let me share my screen
Here is my screen and here is the product.
Let me know if you see it.
Dagobert Renouf (29:59)
Awesome. Very clear. Yeah. Very clear value proposition. Find relevant conversations about your brand.
Sabyr (30:12)
Yeah, right now I think I always do that, at least lately. I have some prototype that I built maybe in a few days with like A.I. tools like LavaBow, V0, like landing page just. I put that, I started to share on X, on Reddit, I get maybe some clicks. And after that...
Dagobert Renouf (30:26)
Yeah.
Sabyr (30:38)
I see maybe some people what they're talking. So it's kind of how I did. I basically changed maybe waiting like ⁓ headline, description maybe a few times. And also, mm-hmm.
Dagobert Renouf (30:50)
So wait, you studied what
people's reaction after posting it and you're updating the copy based on, so like how, for example, how did you find this headline based on that? Based on their conversations? I'm just trying to understand your process.
Sabyr (30:56)
Yeah.
Basically, when I, for example, share a link, I talked how I built it, what was my problem, ⁓ what is the niche, ⁓ how I can help to my ICP, ideal custom profile. ⁓
and people kind of check it and they I think when they care they leave some comments and in my case they left some comments and they talked about most even now they talk ⁓ they don't understand the value proposition so they kind of get it maybe but not as much as possible so that's why I think when I check those comments those like requests
I just go kind of trying to summarize them and trying to put them in one thing. Because I think ⁓ always like, because in the beginning when I was just building, I always try to put headline as general as possible. know, like the best, I don't know, like, yeah, don't sleep like on after pilot.
Dagobert Renouf (32:10)
Yeah, that's the mistake. Yeah. Yeah. But everybody does that, so it seems like it's...
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah. You need to be more specific to stand out. That's always the key, yeah.
Sabyr (32:22)
in the...
Yeah, and also like what I found out about, think the way to start that I'm building, it's kind of good to be niche, like very, very niche down because when kind of you're niching down, ⁓ even with this product, I think I didn't do enough. It's maybe much better if I niche to very specific people because I saw that when people maybe start, let's say for example, it's like a social listening tool like mine. But if you start maybe, ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (32:53)
Yeah.
Sabyr (32:55)
for example, marketing agency in Reddit space, it's kind of maybe 90 % I think will skip, but 10 % that you need, they'll kind of find you. And you think, know, kind of why you would do that, because it's much better, you know, focus on everyone. But from my experience, it's much better if for example, you have a niche, like, and people kind of see that, like, that they are for them, and they kind of buy.
Dagobert Renouf (33:20)
Yeah, I agree.
And there's also, there's something else with this that is counterintuitive, like, when you, like the idea is like you should just speak to one person, like you focus on one person, and you write your landing page for that person, and at first you're afraid of like, yeah but like, all these other people, it's not for them. You can actually close this window, you can close it, and it's gonna be, you can actually close this small window.
Sabyr (33:53)
okay.
Dagobert Renouf (33:55)
Yeah, perfect. ⁓ And you're gonna, it's scary, but then the thing that is ⁓ happening, because you can speak to just one person, your message will have more clarity. Your message will have more confidence. It will feel stronger. And that's actually gonna help even people who are not directly targeted.
because they will still be inspired by like, shit, this seems good, you know, because this guy is confident, he knows what he's talking about. No, it's really a real thing. And then they will start imagining, wait, how could it help me? And they're gonna start themselves thinking, maybe I'm like, maybe it can work for me, like even though it's not who you targeted. Of course, if it's somebody completely opposite, it's not gonna work. like adjacent people, you know, and I noticed that, you I noticed that when I was doing my Twitter course.
Not everybody is like obsessed about the algorithm like I am but I was doing I was focusing the message on that like you know it's about the algorithm and everything and I was like talking to the people who like me are obsessed about it and Then it makes it seem super confident super clear and people who just want a Twitter course They're gonna buy it, you know, even though I was targeting a niche of Twitter course Then I got sales outside of it because of the clarity ⁓
Sabyr (35:22)
Yeah, I also bought your course. It was like very good, I think. And maybe the reason why I also like, reason why I buy it, yeah, because of niching. Yeah, I also, mm-hmm.
Dagobert Renouf (35:28)
thanks man, that's awesome.
That's cool. So yeah, can you show us a
quick demo of your product, like how it works and everything? Just curious.
Sabyr (35:41)
like in
real time.
Dagobert Renouf (35:43)
Yeah, if you want, you don't have to, like, you also have like a special demo you can do, you will do for the launch. But I'm just curious, like, what are you building? Like, how is it working?
Sabyr (35:44)
Yeah, okay.
Basically, when you just sign up, you'll see kind of an onboarding. I tried to do it as simple as possible, only three steps. You basically provide a website like your euro, keywords, and that's it.
Dagobert Renouf (36:08)
Yeah.
Sabyr (36:15)
basically wait. So it's kind of right now for example how I did it also as you see like there is keywords that you can manage for example I have there is like different keywords and after you put
Dagobert Renouf (36:16)
Okay.
Cool. Reddit agency
Death Stranding 2. Interesting. Why are you playing this game Death Stranding 2? Why did you put that? ⁓
Sabyr (36:35)
No, no, I think it was like,
it was like kind of like a random, I just did like, because what I was using, I'm using under the hood. When you put your website name, website URL, it's scribe your website. And I'm using course AI to give the best keywords for you. You can always like edit, maybe change, you know, like add new, but I did for example, just, you know, to have better like starting point.
Dagobert Renouf (36:48)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Sabyr (37:04)
And after that, ⁓ when you sign up to this tool, you'll see mentions. And what I tried to do, I tried to do as simple as possible. For example, as you see, there is AI agency keyword. There is AI agency. ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (37:23)
Yes, so yeah, just to be,
so you were adding the keyword AI agency. And now you can see Reddit posts with this keyword. Okay.
Sabyr (37:33)
Yeah, and after that you basically can check it. I know if it is live, yeah it is live, but also I see that UI is bent, but yeah. But overall, for example, this keyword was mentioned in the posts and I saw this exactly.
And I can also have some filters. Right now I have only two platforms. It's Reddit and Hacker News. I can filter by each platform. And also based on each platform, I can see different ⁓ filters. ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (37:59)
cool.
Sabyr (38:12)
So yeah, as simple as possible. didn't try it, so it may be many pages, just like one page, the main like fit. When you read them, you can mark them as read. Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (38:20)
No, but that's better, that's better, because that's all we need. And how often is
it updating this list?
Sabyr (38:27)
Basically, it's updating every five minutes, but when you just sign up, you'll see them in a few minutes just because I wanted to do it much better. Also, if you want, I worked on integrations. You can also integrate it with email, with telegram, with Slack.
Dagobert Renouf (38:36)
Yeah, you have to, yeah.
soon.
Sabyr (38:45)
you
basically will see like there is like video how to edit because I tried to explain how to do it, like how to set up. But when you like put your SEO also mentions in Slack or Telegram. So we don't even need to go to my application because it's like it was my.
Dagobert Renouf (39:01)
I
like how simple it is. This is cool. Yeah, telegram notification when there's a mention, then you just open the link and you can reply with a comment, that's awesome. And what's the, yeah, yeah, show me, I'm curious, yeah.
Sabyr (39:17)
Yeah, if you want I can show you, but the same notifications,
the same basic notifications, but ⁓ only in Telegram. Sorry for a lot of spamming, but here is how it will look like. You will see in real time when it's found, the same way. ⁓ Keyword, brand name. Yeah, yeah. Also the same in Slack.
Dagobert Renouf (39:36)
and you have the direct link and everything. Wow, this is so cool. So you can just have a message in Telegram
and you'll just literally like just, wow, so cool.
Sabyr (39:46)
Yeah. Because you know, how, why I did that? Because, when you buy any applications, don't want to kind of, know, ⁓ also I have in Slack because you don't want to kind of, you know, check them every single day. You don't want to know kind of sign up check. And I know because for example, people more currently using like Slack or like telegram. And basically when you do it, you kind of can.
Dagobert Renouf (40:03)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's annoying,
Sabyr (40:15)
see them also in real time. Let me know which one, but I think maybe this one I also integrate. Yeah, and the same way you can see like on Slack based on mentions.
Dagobert Renouf (40:26)
I love
the simplicity, man, this is cool. And you know, that's what I like. It's one mistake people make is they think their product is limited to just the app. But the product is not just that, the product is how you deliver the value. And for example, maybe it could be an email, maybe it's a telegram notification, maybe it's a Slack, but that's part of the product.
And the good product is what is easy to use. And if it's easy to use because we all want to build the best products, so we make our products super complicated instead of just using what people already use and make the product more humble and simple. I love that, that's awesome. I see you also send emails, recaps. Yeah, okay. That's cool.
Sabyr (41:10)
And also in email. Yeah, like only free because not like
to spam you, but also some kind of like summary.
Dagobert Renouf (41:21)
Wow, love it man. And so what's the ⁓ next big thing you wanna do, you wanna build?
Sabyr (41:29)
As well as with you, right now I'm focusing on marketing because I'm thinking it's kind of I wanted to add maybe ⁓ as much thing as possible but I think it's kind of maybe bad thing to do especially when you don't have customers.
Dagobert Renouf (41:43)
Yeah, and maybe you need a bit more customers
to know what they want. Exactly. Yeah.
Sabyr (41:48)
Yeah, exactly
what I wanted. right now, even maybe a new thing that I'm trying to do with this SaaS, I basically run a lifetime deal to the first 10 people only. And because most SaaS that are the same space, they ask for monthly payment. And basically, ⁓
what I wanted to do, it's kind of easy to me and easy to customers because I understand if there is some value, if for example there are some sales. So that's why how I did it. I run like this lifetime deal. I also giving to you, I think a good discount.
Dagobert Renouf (42:33)
Yeah,
the deal will be displayed on the site so we don't have to. You wanted to show one last thing on your website maybe?
Sabyr (42:45)
⁓ Basically, it's kind of like how it works, ⁓ how you can set up it. There is some demo also, and why, for example, maybe if you do it manually or if you do it, example, with this tool.
Dagobert Renouf (43:03)
That's awesome. And so if people buy the lifetime deal, how do they know it's gonna still work in one year, this thing?
Sabyr (43:12)
Basically, I think there is no problem to me to run if people buy it because... ⁓
In my cases, I... like there are some people who bought some sales, I know that people kind of use it. So I think in my case, that's why like number one thing is the most important. When I see some sales, I know that people are using and I can give you them something. And that's why I think...
Dagobert Renouf (43:48)
Yeah, 100%.
Sabyr (43:51)
how I think it would be like a good criteria for me to also.
Dagobert Renouf (43:58)
Well, yeah, you can stop sharing your screen now so I can see you again. But yeah.
Sabyr (44:03)
Okay.
Dagobert Renouf (44:07)
Man, this is cool, I really like it. I think you have a good product sense, because you're an engineer, but your products look cool, they look simple, easy to use, good copywriting, you focus on marketing. Yeah, I think you're gonna make it. I think you sound like you you check all the box, I think you're gonna make it, yeah.
Sabyr (44:21)
Thank you so much. ⁓
Yeah, basically my strategy right now, ⁓ I trying to put as much as possible with like content. I'm doing like on X daily like updates with video when I'm doing something.
Dagobert Renouf (44:42)
Yeah, really cool, really cool. I started following
you a while ago. I really like what you post on X, really cool vibe and everything. So I recommend people find you on X. Maybe you can share your screen and show your X quickly so people can see it. So we can have the link, but yeah.
Sabyr (44:49)
Yep.
Yeah, no problem.
And also I'm doing the same way basically ⁓ on Reddit, but on Reddit it's kind of like more posts specific.
Dagobert Renouf (45:05)
Yeah, Less community. I mean, conversations.
Sabyr (45:09)
⁓
There is like basically what I like my thoughts a lot of but in this way I kind of almost like a month even not like almost more than a month I was doing every single day about like updates
Dagobert Renouf (45:26)
yeah, daily posting. Yeah, I a bunch of people do that to motivate themselves.
Yeah, yeah, That's cool.
Sabyr (45:32)
And kind of how I did, even like in the beginning when I was building, I in ⁓ the beginning, like maybe five, seven days, I was just basically building like, ⁓ building this thing, building like this integration. And people kind of also like ⁓ share some feedback, like.
Dagobert Renouf (45:44)
Yeah.
You know, that's an easy way.
It's crazy, so many people don't do that. You can just post every day what you're doing and spend 30 minutes replying to people and trying to make some friends. And it's just like a no-brainer. You get more visibility, you get more people on your website. It's super important to do. And you get feedback, and someday you can go viral. There's nothing to lose, basically. Free lottery ticket every day. Yeah.
Sabyr (46:17)
Even sometimes when I mention something that maybe people think bad, for example like Apsumo, I mentioned about one of the posts and people told me, don't do like Apsumo, don't do Apsumo. And no even some himself replied, this is so cool. Yeah, even found itself.
Dagobert Renouf (46:31)
Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, I say the same thing. Don't do this shit, but you know, maybe it can work. Yeah.
this guy, Noah Kagan, yeah, yeah. I shit on him sometimes,
but yeah, yeah, for sure. Cool.
Sabyr (46:48)
Kind of funny,
yeah. Yeah, I think what I'm trying to do, to be honest with you, because when I started maybe my journey, I tried to do almost every single possible social media. I even tried TikTok, Instagram, everything what you can, I kind of mention, I did it.
Dagobert Renouf (46:51)
Cool. Yeah.
Yeah. Yep.
Sabyr (47:13)
But what I found that when I do like, especially in one time, it's kind of a distraction for me. It was like a distraction for me. And I didn't focus really on those platforms and I didn't get anything from them. So for example, right now I'm focusing mostly like on X, Reddit and...
Dagobert Renouf (47:29)
Yeah.
Sabyr (47:34)
kind of I think good for me because I also tried maybe cold emails I saw that it kind of maybe didn't work very good cold dms so it's kind of yeah ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (47:41)
But that's the way, that's like...
I started the same way before going all in on Twitter four years ago. had started, I tried posting on Product Hunt forums, Reddit. ⁓ I was doing a few social platforms. And then it's really Twitter that worked for me. And once you find it's better to focus, because you're just one person, if you post everywhere, it's gonna be a nightmare. So just focus. And when you focus, it's better to focus in a way because you can go deeper.
Sabyr (48:03)
Mm-hmm.
Dagobert Renouf (48:15)
better to have deeper relationships with people. And I just noticed that, like when you have deeper, like for example, if your thing is LinkedIn, you can go all in on LinkedIn and build relationships, then you will have opportunities. Same with X, you know, but like if you like spread yourself and just like post everywhere, you don't have time to connect with people everywhere. And so you miss this opportunity of, know, you don't know like opportunities you can find on social media. So, but if you focus, it's better.
Especially at the beginning. Yeah.
Sabyr (48:47)
Yeah, 100%. Even sometimes, you know, kind of, think I also open, trying to be open-minded because I think it's a good way, you know, kind of to live because sometimes I wanted to explore maybe something new. So it's kind of good thing to do because I tried for example with cold emails. I paid even one guy like a thousand dollars, you know, like to set up everything like to do and...
Dagobert Renouf (48:55)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, no, I paid like for Google Ads,
600 euro Google Ads and make nothing with it. You know, at first you have to try things. Yeah.
Sabyr (49:17)
Yeah,
yeah, I think it's also maybe a good thing to do, at least what I see right now. You basically start with your own hands, see maybe something from that. If you see maybe something, you just go to experts because I think you kind of know what you need and you basically know what to ask. But when you maybe just outsource from day one, yeah, yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (49:40)
Yeah, you've done it yourself. Otherwise you're gonna get scammed.
Yeah, yeah. Cool.
Sabyr (49:45)
when you just outsource it,
it's kind of maybe tricky because maybe even they wanted to do like a good way but because maybe they didn't need what you really need it's kind of I think how it should be done and that's why we should try more, we should explore more because I'm also thinking about YouTube now it's kind of maybe no kind of ⁓
in exploration. Sometimes you think about that, maybe you need to have some balls sometimes because you think, it really necessary, do you really need it? You have some excuses. I need to show up every day, I need to share everything what I have in my life. it's kind of, yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (50:21)
It's also scary, like, oh, I'm gonna be on video, like, you know, I was super scared of video for a long time. That's because of, yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's scary, it's scary.
Yeah, yeah. Cool, man.
Sabyr (50:35)
But sometimes I think you
need to kind of maybe less you think, better if you just go do it. You go do it, maybe even if you fail miserably, like you don't have anything. But nothing to lose because if you have nothing, what you can lose. But if you try, it's kind of better.
Dagobert Renouf (50:56)
Yeah, you don't have to be scared. To
be honest, if you do YouTube and it doesn't work, nobody gives a shit. You don't have anything to lose. Cool, man. I'm sorry I gotta wrap it up because we have another founder in a few minutes coming and I gotta interview him. But man, that was awesome. I'm glad I finally met you after all this time. That was really cool.
Sabyr (51:02)
Yeah.
Because if people don't see it, they don't know you.
Thank you so much, Daga. I remember
the first time interaction with us when I was very, very small, like, account. And Daga shared about the film that I really loved.
Dagobert Renouf (51:28)
Yeah, yeah, I remember.
Sabyr (51:34)
don't remember how it is in English. me... ⁓ hit, hit. Hit 99.5. Michael Mann, Robert De Niro, Al Pacino, and Dago basically posted, I think, a video, a little video, a meme maybe.
Dagobert Renouf (51:37)
Yeah, tell me.
yeah, hit Michael Mann. my God, this movie is so aesthetic.
yeah, yeah, the meme. Yeah, I made a
meme about that. Yeah, yeah.
Sabyr (51:54)
And I
basically played one of the scenes maybe of this film, kind of like that I think. And Dagger like, because I have maybe like 500 followers, maybe even less. I don't remember how many followers I had. And I thought, yeah, Dagger replied. I told my wife, you know, like, it is like a big one. It's like a big one, know, like big for me, like.
Dagobert Renouf (52:08)
Yeah.
yeah, you're gonna be a millionaire now. Yeah, no worries. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I appreciate it.
Sabyr (52:24)
I think that's all I to Fuck it.
Dagobert Renouf (52:26)
Thank you man, have a good one.
Sabyr (52:29)
Yeah, you too.
I hope you...