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Tyson Popplestone is a Comedian from Melbourne Australia. Join him for a brand new interview each week.
tyson (00:00.554)
Oh no, there we go. Oh, thank God for that. I was gonna say, I've never seen that error before. That's not what we want. All right, we're recording. Oh, yeah, all right, you're ready to roll? Awesome. I was just saying to you, the last couple of weeks, I think my mind has just been going down the rabbit hole of the microbiome conversation, because for whatever reason, I've noticed, I don't know if it's because of the fact that I've just become aware of it, but every second person seems to have something wrong with their gut. There seems to be a lot of talk around,
Lucia (00:07.901)
Yep, yep, yep.
tyson (00:29.458)
lanky gut and digestion problems. And I mean, you're gonna be able to speak to it way more than what I can. But it seems very, very unusual that so many of us have so many problems with what is supposed to be like a high functioning, really important part of our body. And I thought maybe as a foundation to set the conversation up, you might be able to speak to that just a little bit. Like what is going on that's causing so many people to have so much trouble in the gut?
Lucia (00:53.065)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think to backtrack a bit, I was doing some research a couple of weeks ago, and one in two Australians has gut problems. And one in seven Australians have gut problems that require attention, which we call it severe. And that was from the CSIRO survey, it was like a survey done. And also,
part of the picture is, as you know, and everyone knows that cancer is very prevalent in our society's health, but the top cancers are gastrointestinal related, which is your colon cancer in particular, and even prostate cancer is quite high, but colon cancer is really, really rampant in people. And so if we backtrack a bit, like why is this happening? Why are we so sick in the gut all the time? And I think what I think is happening is that
First of all, people don't understand how important it is to have good gut health going into preconception for women. So a woman will pass on her gut flora to her baby at birth. And if her gut health is problematic going into pregnancy and not optimal, then that will pass on to the baby, including any pathogenic bacteria. So that includes essentially bad bugs. That shouldn't be there.
So there was some statistics I was reading and some studies saying that if a mother has specific bacterial issues, like say they have E. coli or streptococcus bacteria, then the baby will inherit that. And then that increases the risk of colic in that baby. Can you see that very often in babies that are born that they have a lot of colic, which is a lot of tummy pain and...
Basically it's trapped gas from what I can understand, from what I've seen is a lot of gas in the gut, it hurts, it doesn't move, and it just really cause a lot of pain and bloating and can cause constipation. So to me, that's where it starts. And often when I talk to people in consultation, I always do initial consultation that takes about an hour where we just go through the person's health history. And I'll usually go back to childhood and I'll say, what was your gut health like in childhood? And even if even...
Lucia (03:14.109)
further back than that, what was your mom's gut health like? And then what was your story with childbirth? How were you born and what was your gut health as a baby? And then going into childhood and adolescence and all that. So it's not like it happened suddenly. It's a long journey for most people. And they've always known that from birth they had colic and then they had a lot of tummy issues, mostly constipation in kids and or diarrhea.
or they were very sickly kids who had to have several rounds of antibiotics as a child and then that led to problematic gut issues later on in life. So it starts there, starts with mom's gut health first, that's passed on to the baby and I always say like a mom or a woman should be preparing her gut preconception. That's something that no one talks about, doctors don't talk about it, no one talks about it, but you have to be in very good optimal health going into pregnancy.
tyson (04:05.57)
Hmm.
Lucia (04:11.589)
And then also I think as well is that if there's a lot of antibiotics and medication that even surgery in the first three years of life in particular, that really sets the scene for very poor gut health later on. Because what's supposed to happen is you're meant to, you know, in an ideal world, your mom has good gut health, she's got a very diverse range of bacteria that's healthy. You're born vaginally and then that seeds the gut through that passage.
And then that sort of starts the proliferation of bacteria from that point forward. Ideally then that child would be breastfed exclusively up until, well, in my opinion, up until two years old minimum. And then you only start solids from six months. And then in an ideal world, you also wouldn't have any medications or antibiotics in that time. And that would really set the scene for a very healthy gut bacterial ecology. And then...
what happens is the first three to four years of life, the gut microbiome is forming, it's colonizing, it's changing, it's adapting to the environment, it's changing as a result of the food that you've been eating and introduced to, as well as whether you're breastfed or not, and how long you're breastfed for. And then basically from then onwards, it forms what becomes what the adult gut is. So the first three, four years are very crucial to microbiome.
development. If that doesn't happen well, often it sets the scene for chronic gut issues from that moment forward. Because what happens is, if you, like once you get sick and maybe you do have to have antibiotics, which everyone has, everyone has to have surgeries at some point, but if your gut health is really good as a child, your ecology should go back to that because the gut microbiome doesn't actually change that much. It becomes your gut, you know, ecosystem.
And every time there's deviations from that because of assaults to the body, it should go back to what it was. Provided that you make all the right changes and really support yourself through illness, it'll go back to a very standard ecology that is basically set because it was set in the first three years of life. And then what happens is, the more assault to the gut and the body as you get older, and if the gut isn't able to recover properly,
tyson (06:23.362)
Yeah.
Lucia (06:34.177)
it just gets worse and worse and worse to the point where you end up with something like inflammatory bowel disease, which is Crohn's or ulcerative colitis or colon cancer, bowel cancer, things like that. So it's not like it happens suddenly. And I think the telltale signs is constant food intolerances. So people often will stop eating a whole bunch of foods because they're reacting to it without saying, well, hang on, what do I need to do to support my gut so I can
repair, replenish and start to put these foods back in, even in very tiny amounts. It's still important to try and do that so that you're eating a very diverse diet because the more diverse your diet is the more bacteria you'll have because they're being fed because the less so you start taking lots of foods out there's less variety to feed a variety of bugs and they will die off and they will disappear and if one and usually once they're gone, they're gone.
tyson (07:19.97)
Yeah.
Lucia (07:31.877)
So it's very difficult to repair that. Yeah. Hope I've answered that. It's like a big long-winded answer. Ha ha ha.
tyson (07:35.099)
Yeah, you've made a really, oh it's a great answer. I know it's such a, one thing I've realized is there's so many factors that come into the conversation and so I feel like you've done a beautiful job of painting an overall picture of what's going on especially from the outset. One of the things you just said which I thought was interesting
Well, you said a number of things that I thought were interesting, but one of them you just mentioned was a lot of the time, it seems that in our culture, there's a real first step towards antibiotics. So there's a first step towards medication. If you notice that you're not tolerating something correctly. So rather than saying, okay, what was my response to and how did the actual food impact my gut or my overall feeling of health? I'll just go to a doctor, hopefully get a tablet to alleviate the,
Lucia (07:55.979)
Yeah, yeah.
tyson (08:23.472)
the inflammation or the tension or whatever it is that particular food's causing. This was my gateway into the conversation around this actually. For years and years, I constantly had sinusitis. I was always feeling as I was on the brink of being sick. I was waking up in hot sweats. I was trying to compete as a semi-pro middle-distance runner, so it was really frustrating. I had big ambitions to make that next step. And unfortunately,
I was just constantly hampered with these illnesses. And I had two sinus surgeries, I was constantly on antibiotics, and my doctor was getting ready to send me in for a third sinus surgery. And he goes, oh, look, this is just something that you're probably gonna have to have for the rest of your life. Obviously, there's just something in you that's slightly off. And even I, I thought this is very strange because I was sitting in his office and I could see the bachelor's degree or the degrees hanging up on his wall and I was paying him big money.
Lucia (09:11.09)
Yeah, yeah.
tyson (09:20.91)
to give me good answers. And I thought, well, surely at this stage, I mean, I was 21, 22, thought surely this guy knows. And my wife's grandmother said to me, she goes, hey, listen, I reckon the symptoms that you've painted a classic sign that you have some allergy to something. She goes, my gut feel is that it's dairy. Cause she goes, I've seen you drink a lot, seen you eat a lot. I had a...
no trust in anything that Jess's grandma said, especially around diet. But I thought, you know, I'm not going in for a third surgery. I thought I cut it out for a month. I cut it out for a month. I'm not kidding. The inflammation disappeared, the sinusitis disappeared, the aches, the pains really disappeared.
That was my eye-opening moment of, okay, like there's a real relationship between the things that we eat and the way that you feel. It was interesting though, you go to a GP and in our culture, what you're saying to so many people just sounds like you're a hippie. You know what I mean? No one has an understanding of the fact that there really is a relationship between the environment that we're in, the foods that we eat, the way that our body responds to it. And when you speak like this, though it seems so common sense.
Lucia (10:18.169)
Yeah.
tyson (10:29.106)
it seems to be often laughed at, frowned upon, like, what, you just don't trust modern medicine? It's like, no, it's more than that. I just think our body seems more capable of making changes, you know, to the things we expose it to. And I mean, that's a, I've said a lot right back at you, but one thing that I'm interested in, and one thing that I've learned about the things that we expose ourself to is a lot of kids, they seem to have a reputation for...
Lucia (10:37.381)
Yeah.
tyson (10:53.13)
wanting to get their hands in the dirt, for wanting, they lick the most ridiculous things, they constantly are exposed to germs. And I've noticed so many people.
try and essentially put a blanket on that with sanitizers, with clean like bath. We try and keep our kids super sanitized. And as a result, there seems to be an increase in sort of negative health consequences as a result of that. And you touched on the early part of life, specifically with the birth, the bacteria that you're exposed to. But I was really curious to pick your brain about those first couple of years and what's actually going on.
in those kids' lives and whether or not there's actually some benefit in them being exposed to germs rather than us just trying to put a safety blanket around absolutely everything that they're exposing themselves to.
Lucia (11:26.451)
Hmm.
Lucia (11:35.705)
Oh no, they should definitely be. I mean, it's actually really important to, even as adults, to expose yourself to nature and dirt and get those microbes in you. They're not all bad. And I think, I mean, kids should be exposed to that. Like one of the therapies that one of my sort of mentors teaches is that part of...
Rebuilding your gut is actually to go out in nature put your hands in dirt And I mean not say put it straight into your mouth But but you know you have a microbiome in your mouth on your skin in your gut You know, there's a lot of different microbiomes all over the body and they all do things and I think when you see people with a lot of In my opinion like skin allergies which a lot of kids have as well as psoriasis eczema I really think it's a it's a combination of both the gut hasn't evolved properly and the skin
microbiome has also not been exposed to enough things and it's just reacting to everything because there's no protection. Our bacteria, both on the skin, the mouth and the gut, they all perform very specific functions in the body and part of their functions is immune system support as well. So if those microbes are in very low amounts or they're gone, the function isn't really there. And of course we have our own immune system, but.
we are so much of a bacterial host as well that they, I think we're still kind of learning in that space. It's such a huge scientific research field, gut bacteria and bacteria in general, but we're still learning all the roles that they do. And it's huge, absolutely huge. I mean, I've just finishing off a 10 week course in advanced microbiome manipulation. So we've, we're deep diving into specific function of bacteria and, and especially the
the what we call the superstars of the gut. This very specific bacteria that have superstars of the gut, they really perform a huge role. And a lot of the time when I see sickness in people is because those bacteria are in very low amounts in their gut or they're completely missing. And then what happens is, is a lot of the other pathogenic bugs which we call opportunistic bacteria, they take over and they start basically dominating the gut ecosystem but they release inflammatory molecules as well. And those inflammatory molecules is what causes
Lucia (13:53.181)
the skin problems, the poor immune system, inflammation in particular. A lot of the time inflammation starts in the gut because there's bacteria producing inflammatory molecules all the time and it doesn't go away. So that's where it all kind of starts and it flares up and it kind of stays what I call chronically low grade inflammation. So you're in this chronically low inflammatory state all the time and every so often it just jacks up because there's too much stimulus. So.
the more we're exposed to germs and kids, you know, they're meant to be inoculating and developing that from that young age, they should be exposed to a lot of things, especially in nature, even animals, so that they don't have animal allergies as well. All of that's really important. And they will be, kids, especially around the age of sort of 12 months to probably 18 months, you'll see them go through a very snotty phase where they're constantly just snotty, you think, oh, they've got allergies. I think it's actually the immune system adapting. They're constantly exposed and they're constantly adapting.
My daughter went through that and I was worried at one point because she just had the runny nose all the time. So I supported her with very specific probiotics at the time. It all went away and she's very robust now. She's like very robust four-year-old. But the kids will go through that phase where they're constantly sick because everything's adapting in that moment. But they usually get over things quite fast. So that's the critical age. Yeah.
tyson (14:53.759)
Mm.
tyson (15:17.59)
Do you think this is part of the reason why we're seeing so many like nut and peanut allergies? I'm 36. I remember as a kid, I never heard of anything like that. You'd get on a plane, you'd get a bag of peanuts, you'd go to school. Kids had nuts, kids had egg sandwiches, whatever it is that they had. You can't go to my kid's daycare at the moment without, there's a warning sign on the door to say this is a nut-free zone. I thought this is such a strange sign to have. Like, I understand that.
Lucia (15:31.344)
Mm.
Lucia (15:38.693)
Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's becoming such a problem. I really think that it's something that's evolved over, in my opinion, probably two, three generations now, where it's a combination of the child's poor start to gut health and the mother's inability. Or, you know, it's unfortunate, but it's not the mother's fault, of course, but the mom had poor gut health to begin with, so there was nothing to pass on. That's reminded me of a really good note, actually. There's a particular bacteria.
called oxalobacter that breaks down oxalates in plants. So all plants and nuts have high levels of oxalates. And we have a particular bacteria that is responsible for breaking those oxalates down and getting rid of them. But they're very sensitive bacteria and they often will die away and disappear the moment people start having lots of antibiotics. So if mom was missing that bacterial species, then she doesn't have anything to pass on to the baby.
then the baby doesn't have that bacterial species. Suddenly, oxalates and nuts are a huge problem because they're high, nuts in particular, very high oxalate, there's no bacteria to break it down. So it becomes a reactive problem. So I don't think it's, yeah, it's interesting. I think we have to do more work and research into understanding what are some cornerstone bacterial species that have to be in the gut.
tyson (16:51.595)
Yeah.
Lucia (17:02.529)
And if that person is missing it, how do we bring it back in? How do we support the gut to bring it in and start to colonize that from a very early age? I think to me, that's probably the future. I'm probably thinking way, way ahead now of where health should be going, but that's my opinion of where health should be.
tyson (17:20.134)
It seems as though this conversation is a pretty good sign that things are heading in that direction. Like I've had a number of guests on this show who've spoken specifically around gut health, the problems that we're seeing, the ways that we can address it. And it's making, and just the traction that some of these people online are getting in regards to this message is mind blowing. It shows that there's obviously an audience for it, but more than that, that there's people who are trying to navigate their way through.
these problems that, you know, GPs haven't been able to address very effectively for so many years, but I'm curious. So, okay, so you've got the, from the time a child's born, if their mom had the poor gut health, which is being passed on, that's a foundation, which is obviously not ideal. The constant sanitation of the kids and not exposing them to dirts and germs and, you know, constantly antibiotics and medication every time there's a runny nose or whatever, obviously.
not the most helpful or effective thing in terms of actually developing their resilience or ability to just navigate their way through the world effectively. But in regards to food, I'm sure that this is such a huge part around the conversation of what actually contributes towards whether it's healthy microbiome, gut health, immune health.
There's so many different perspectives on food at the moment, especially in regards to autoimmune disease. I've seen the carnivore diets really started to take off for a number of reasons, like people who have these autoimmune diseases and struggling with depressions and think that there seems to be a number of people who have had really positive responses to an elimination diet down to the very basic meat only approach.
Lucia (18:55.033)
Yeah, yeah.
tyson (18:55.902)
And as a result, they swear by it. They say it's the best thing ever. I get confused because the opposite side of that spectrum also exists. You have, I don't know if you know fully real Christina, but I used to follow her pretty closely back in the day where it was, she would just eat real fruits, real vegetables, she was vegan. And she said, hey, look at how this has healed my life. And I see the two different sides and I go, okay, well, I like meat, I like fruit. Which one should I be following?
Lucia (19:20.173)
Oh yeah, look, I get asked this probably every day is, I get asked this, Lucia, just tell me what I need to eat and what I don't need to eat. And my approach isn't anything to do with a diet type. I don't follow any diet type. You really have to see the ecology of the gut microbiome and understand what can your gut handle and what is missing. So what do we need to start working on?
tyson (19:30.401)
Yeah.
Lucia (19:47.785)
to give you a very balanced gut bacterial ecology such that you can eat variety. I have a big problem with a carnivore diet and I'll just say it and maybe I might not win fans, but I also have a problem with vegan diet as well. I don't think either of them is a good, sustainable long-term solution to health. And I think both of those work for people, sometimes coincidentally, because they happen to have bacterial species that can handle the diet change.
However, I've also met people who have done extremely poorly with going vegan. For example, I was talking to a practitioner earlier this year who was saying that she had this lady who had gone all fully plant-based, was doing the green juices in the morning and was just like, I'm all in, I'm all in, and ended up with kidney stones. You think, how did that happen, right? What happened is that she had no oxalate degrading bacteria and greens like kale, celery,
they're very high oxalate plants. So when you don't have that bacteria to break it down, you will literally crystallize those oxalates out of the body and they can be very, very painful. They can cause things like joint pain, they can attack the thyroid and they can attack, well not attack, but they crystallize out in the kidneys causing kidney stones. This lady ended up in hospital and that was the reason she ended up in hospital. Now that's pretty extreme.
But it can happen. And on the other side of the spectrum, you go carnivore. The problem is if people think, oh, but I've stopped reacting to things, I'm fine. What I think has happened is that their gut bacteria was not set up to handle too many plants because they didn't have enough bacteria to break it down. So they were constantly reacting and probably very gassy and probably very like bubbly in the stomach and bloated all the time.
So they took all the plants out, I'm just gonna eat meat, because I've been told that we need to eat like our ancestors and have organs and have lots of meat and fats. I don't disagree about those foods. I think they're great. I will never stop eating meat personally. I love it, I think it's important. However, your bacteria in your gut does not eat meat. It shouldn't, meat shouldn't reach the large intestine for that bacteria there. The bacteria in the large intestine only live off plant fiber.
Lucia (22:13.349)
because plant fiber reaches the colon or the large intestine undigested because it's hard to break it down in the stomach and small intestine and your bacteria live off those plant fibers. So you have to give as much plant fiber as possible to the large intestine so that bacteria can function, so it can make essential short-chain fatty acids necessary for you to make energy, vitamins, neurotransmitter balance, immune system support, all of those things have good vagal.
So, you know, Vegas nerve, gut, you know, messages so that your neurotransmitters travel up and down and you can sleep well, you feel good, all these kind of things. They will die away if you go carnivore. Those bacteria will go away. And what happens is there are select bacteria that love fats off meat. And so they'll proliferate and they'll just go crazy. But they are the bacteria that essentially...
cause colon cancer later on. So meat is important, you need the amino acids, you need the vitamins, you need the iron, you need all of that stuff, but it's not meant to be eaten in high amounts and it shouldn't form the majority of your diet. And I'm not saying don't eat that, I'm very omnivore, pro-Mediterranean diet kind of person. You should be eating meat, you should be eating butter, you should be eating all these things, eggs, alongside your plants.
And it's the plants that help mitigate the inflammatory effects of meat reaching the colon. So if you eat meat with fruit, meat with salad, it really mitigates that kind of what's called putrefaction in the large intestine where the bacteria will come and they'll just eat all that fat and go crazy growing in amounts and they produce inflammatory molecules. So we're meant to eat it together, always in every meal to be fully healthy.
So I will never subscribe to either one of those extreme diets. Some people will feel fine for a while on like a carnival diet because the constant reactivity of gases produced from fermentation of plants is gone, but you will cause other problems later on. It just takes longer. Usually people will start forming a lot of methane production, a lot of methane gas production. It's not obvious at first, because it happens slowly, but suddenly they've got problems with their gut. Again,
Lucia (24:37.853)
And I can tell you now getting rid of methane in the gut is very difficult. So, and getting the bacterial species back that live off plants is difficult if there's in such low amounts that you have to work very hard to grow them or if they're gone, if they're extinct, they're extinct. Sometimes if they're extinct, you will have to go on probiotics for life potentially. Yeah.
tyson (24:57.055)
Hmm.
Yeah, it's really interesting to hear because I mean, it seems like such a, I remember walking around the streets of London in 2017 when I was living there and hearing about this new diet, this carnivore diet and my gut response was like, it seems strange. It doesn't seem as though it's hitting so many of the nutritional values or nutrients that you're going to want to get. I had no degree in nutrition just from what I'd been taught, I guess. I thought, it doesn't quite hit. And I was amazed at the traction over the last
I often wonder how much, because I know I'm a little bit of a black and white kind of guy at times. I find it easy just to go, like I'm one of those people that come to people like you and go, hey, just tell me what to do. And when there's less thinking involved, it's nice just to go, okay, I'm gonna commit hard to it. I'm gonna justify it by explaining what it is that I'm seeing, what it is that other people are speaking about. But the truth is, I guess, when you dig down a little bit, it's far more of a nuanced conversation. But what do you think's going on?
Lucia (25:38.761)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
tyson (25:55.675)
And I think you might have answered this just in regards to your body's ability to break down certain products, but
When someone does say, okay, the inflammation that I had, which was causing my depression or my arthritis or whatever else it might be, has disappeared as a result of me taking up this carnivore diet, is that purely because of the fact that they've eliminated something else from their diet that was causing it? And this form of elimination diet might just be helpful in cutting out the, I guess, the toxic factors that are causing like a negative autoimmune response?
Lucia (26:29.745)
Yeah, I would ask what inflammatory markers are you actually talking about? There's many inflammatory markers. Cause I always do blood tests with my clients. I always do a blood test and I do the microbiome test and there's different inflammatory markers in each. I would argue and I would challenge.
do a microbiome test and show me there's no inflammation in your gut as a result of a carnivore diet. Because I would argue there is inflammation in your gut as a result of your carnivore diet. There may be other markers of inflammation that have come down in the blood chemistry pathology work, potentially, but I would argue the gut is not in a good state. Only because I've seen it. I've seen it in a few people who have done very high meat diets, the gut's a mess.
the guts definitely a mess and not in that heading, not direction. And there's probably a good sort of five, six inflammatory markers in microbiome tests that we can look at from various sources. I look at all of them when I do microbiome testing and I would argue, I doubt all of those markers are in a good range as a result of carnivore diet. I would very, I'd be very, very skeptical if it was.
tyson (27:40.838)
Yeah, one of the criticisms that I've heard from a carnivore, from someone who's on a carnivore diet has been for the last couple of years, is that the way that our fruits and vegetables are actually prepared these days are so negative, so covered with pesticides, so covered with, you know, things that we probably shouldn't be ingesting just based on the way you see the pesticides being sprayed on, you know, the people in the full hazmat suits, it doesn't look overly healthy. And so they say, okay, well, what's better? Like...
you want to have this natural meat, assuming you get like an organic meat that's been raised in a sort of healthy environment, or you want to consume all of these pesticides. And the pesticides is one that I've gotten really interested in because for the last few years, I've been really focused on eating as much organic as I possibly can, you know, put my trust in the fact that the food's been organically produced. I mean, that's a whole other conversation around whether or not you can trust the labels, but one of the...
Lucia (28:18.697)
Mmm.
Lucia (28:33.029)
Yes, yeah, yes, a whole lot of ball game. I know, I feel like I've personally, I can tell you now, I've gone down a rabbit hole and come back up again with all that. But yeah, let's talk about that. I think pesticides is a good topic because if you're a vegan vegetarian, then you're only eating plants and you probably are consuming more pesticides than the average person. There is still pesticides in organic produce, there is. It's just different types.
tyson (28:42.153)
Please.
Lucia (29:03.625)
The biggest culprit in our pesticide world is glyphosate. I don't know if you've heard of glyphosate, but for me, I reckon that in itself is harming human health right now. I reckon glyphosate is, I reckon that's our biggest problem, including the development of so many cancers, is glyphosate. And glyphosate does kill off our bacteria in our gut as well. If you, I don't know if you've heard of Dr. Stephanie Senoff.
She wrote a book called Toxic Legacy, and the entire book is about glyphosate and pesticides and how it's affecting human health, how that pesticide was developed in the first place, how it's sprayed, the fact that it doesn't disappear, it has a really long half-life, it hangs around in our waterways, in the air, in the soil for probably decades, if not hundreds of years, and we are spraying it everywhere. And I see...
So glyphosate for the someone who doesn't understand enough, if that's fine, is what is in Roundup, the weed killer Roundup. You can go buy Roundup right now at Woolworths and it's got glyphosate in it. It hasn't been pulled off the shelves. I see people spray their weeds in their front lawn all the time with glyphosate. I see Roundup sprayed in the schools all the time by the counter workers, no hazmat suit. It's the same stuff as sprayed on all the crops.
It's hugely, hugely problematic. Makes me feel sick looking at it, to be honest, because it is poison, not just to the weeds, but for us as well. So my thoughts around organic food is that all eggs and meats should be consumed organically as much as possible. And I make a huge effort to try and buy all organic chicken, beef, lamb, fish. Fish is very hard to buy organic, but I think it's if you can, wild caught organic fish is very, very ideal.
I always buy organic free range eggs and chicken and lamb and beef. Always, always. But I think glyphosate is really a problem and it is sprayed on wheat crops. So if you're eating a lot of like run-of-the-mill bread, normal bread that's non-organic, you're going to be consuming a lot of glyphosate. And in cereals and oats and all those kind of foods have tons and tons of glyphosate in it. So...
Lucia (31:27.717)
we are consuming it everywhere all the time. And in my opinion, that's causing a much bigger health risk than just about anything else right now. So I think it's a big problem. And if you haven't read the book, Toxic Legacy, go get it. It's such a good, it's not a big book. It's a very easy read to some extent, but it explains it so well, so, so well, and to the extent of how much it's affecting human health as well.
tyson (31:54.214)
Yeah, I think it was Dr. Zach Bush that I heard speak about Glyphosate for the first time. I don't know if I'm misquoting him. I'm going to butcher what he said anyway, if it was him. But he was talking about a particular town, a particular city in the United States of America, which is pretty much the end of a river where so many of the runoffs of Roundup from all the way up that river pretty much ends up. And he said it was really interesting to look at the data from
tyson (32:24.688)
cancer specifically related to things like glyphosate went through the roof in this particular town. If you look at the average town in the rest of America, average city, and you'd see some elements of this cancer. I can't remember what it was, I need to find out more, but it was just explaining that it's very interesting the correlation between the amount of glyphosate which is actually seen in the soil in this particular place and that number of cancers around it. It's actually, it is mind-blowing. Like where I am at the moment, I'm in a town called Point Lonsdale.
in Victoria. Now it was so interesting through COVID because there was an obsession out of the blue with health apparently. Everyone would say, no, go get vaccinated. It's the most important thing you can do for your neighbor. And then, you know, some people bought into that. Some people said, yeah, okay, it's the right way to go. No worries. But what's so interesting is now you walk out in our front yard. I live in an estate, it's called The Point, beautiful little town.
but those council workers constantly, I constantly see them walking around with the plastic thing on their back, with a little spray thing, no hazmat suit, just spraying around. And it blows my mind that first of all, there's like an acceptance of that based on what you've just said. You don't have to dig very hard to see how terrible glyphosate or it's sort of stronger counterpart, Paracort is on the health impacts of the people that are exposed to it.
and yet it sprayed so freely and that it just blows.
Lucia (33:45.669)
Oh yeah, I think it's been banned in Europe. I was talking to some friends the other day and they said it's been banned in Europe and I think it's starting to get banned in the US because there was a big lawsuit. I don't know if you saw that, it's a big lawsuit that a guy took Monsanto to court over getting cancer because of glyphosate. And then I think Bayer bought Monsanto and rebadged it because he got such a bad rap. So.
Yeah, I'm my mind is blown with that. I'm surprised Australia hasn't caught up with that. And even in, even in if you think about like even our water treatment, the fact that because I work, I work as an engineer as well. And I work in water infrastructure. So I see how water is treated. I see how our sewer water networks work.
tyson (34:31.531)
Ha.
Lucia (34:34.353)
here in Brisbane, Queensland, I know how our water and sewer networks work. I know how projects are executed and run and developed and how they make decisions around that. And I do ask some of the engineers, like to what extent do we test the water chemicals? And I know for a fact that they don't test our drinking water for hormones. I read the, what's it called? The Australian Water Drinking Guidelines. It's a big, big document. I read it some years ago and I read it again, a couple of...
months ago, not the whole thing, but I read, you know, it's like over 100 pages, but I read some of it and I wanted to know, do we test our water for glyphosate? No, we don't. Do we test it for hormones, antibiotics? No, we don't. That's not tested. What they test for is, does it have E. coli? Is it going to cause a big outbreak of gastro if people are drinking tap water?
Is there any other dissolved solids that shouldn't be there and things like that, but they don't test for these kind of chemicals. So you don't know really what's in our water from the tap. And so I always say to people, I do not drink tap water, ever, ever. And I also don't like the idea of showering in chlorinated water either. So I have a whole house water filter system. So my showers have filtered water and I have a reverse osmosis under the sink and my drinking water is not.
tap water. It's treated water and then it's RO essentially. And it's remineralized after that. But I think, you know, that's important. I would say you want to look after your health, you don't drink tap water, ever. So that's my take on that.
tyson (36:14.69)
That's so interesting. I mean, that's good. No, so I mean, you can speak to more than the average person. I cut out Tapwater probably about four years ago. We bought a, out of interest, I don't know if you know the brand, it's called a Genzon filter, which is essentially.
Lucia (36:29.654)
No, I've heard of so many but not that one, yeah.
tyson (36:31.438)
Yeah, there's so many. Yeah, I, it blew my mind. I was living in an apartment in Melbourne. I drank tap water for years. I never really thought anything of it. I thought anyone who had an issue with tap water was maybe a little bit mental. And then you would, you'd put the you'd put the water in the filter and this filter, it's got like, I don't know what it's called, but it's got like this big white semi dome or dome at the top of it. And it filters through the first element, then it goes through like a whole series of stones and then does like the remineralization.
Lucia (36:40.329)
Mm.
Lucia (36:58.413)
Oh, you have seen those kind of like those like, they're like, activated carbon and different little balls in there. Yeah.
tyson (37:05.858)
Yeah, yeah, it's got so many different little things going on in there. I don't know exactly what works, but I mean, the reviews seem good and it seems better than tap water. But I put the Melbourne water in there. We were in an apartment block. And I'm not kidding. Once a week, you'd have to take it out because there was like this light, it was like a light green slime over the top of it. I don't know exactly what that was, just residue from inside the pipes, I assume. You'd take that off, you'd clean it out. And after about three weeks, do you go, hang on a second, like for every bit of water.
Lucia (37:11.709)
Yeah, yeah. Ha ha ha. Yeah, yeah.
tyson (37:35.51)
that I'd usually drink, whatever that is, it doesn't look as though it's been designed necessarily for human consumption. I mean, this filter's done a good job of clearing it out. But what are the main problems? So the hormones, the antibiotics, the things that glyphosate, I mean, yeah.
Lucia (37:50.354)
Yeah, I-
Yes, I did a whole webinar on this earlier this year because I did a webinar on water filters and I was explaining why you have to filter your water. But yes, they don't test. So obviously, if we go back a little bit, like, okay, so the average person will take medications. The average woman will take the oral contraceptive pill. The average person will consume alcohol.
and all sorts of things like that, right? So obviously you excrete that in your urine, that's your waste product, so you will excrete hormones even naturally. You don't have to take the pill to excrete hormones. You excrete hormones all the time because that's how you detox. So the sewage treatment plants will treat all of that water and clean it essentially and then put it back into the waterways and it'll just eventually end up back in the catchments and just kind of, you know.
end up being treated against with the water treatment plants. But the water treatment plants, they don't have the technology nor do they have the legal requirement to check, well, does this water have high levels of estrogen? Does this water have drugs and chemicals? And they will check for certain things, but I know that they don't check for hormones, they don't check for pesticides. It's not a legal requirement. They have a minimum requirement to ensure that there is certain...
criteria in terms of public health, which would be how do we stop public health outbreaks like an E. coli or some sort of other bacterial outbreak from making people sick. That's the immediate requirement. It's not to optimize your health and nor do they have the technology or the funds to put that level of treatment and testing in water treatment anyway. So they're doing their...
Lucia (39:47.609)
requirement for public health and the public health measures say we don't want to have outbreaks of bacterial infections where people are sick with gastros That's our goal with water treatment. It is not to Start putting minerals back in Making sure that there's no not many too many Hormones and antibiotics and maybe they do test for some level of drugs or whatever that there isn't like crazy levels of weird things like that
but they're not gonna go and opt, they're not gonna optimize your health, it's a minimum requirement to make sure that you don't get sick with obvious things. That's it, yeah.
tyson (40:25.818)
Yeah, yeah. And so for a lot of people you hear that and you go, okay, well it makes sense, you don't wanna ingest that. But for you, the idea of showering in that, like your skin's gonna absorb a number of the negative things you're trying to eliminate completely.
Lucia (40:37.285)
Well, yeah, but also there's a big long list of chemicals they put in the water to clean it. And part of that is high levels of chlorine. And I remember when I, I lived on acreage for three years, some years ago, and we had underground concrete water tanks and we had really good filtration systems. So I got used to really clean water. That was just rainwater. That was then we had our own UV filters, activated carbon filters and then RO. And it was beautiful water.
really, really beautiful water. And then when we moved back to the city, I remember the first night I ran the taps for the kids bath, all I could smell was chlorine. I thought, wow, it was so strong that I thought, Oh my God, I cannot let my kids bathe in this chlorinated water. But once you're in the city, again, you don't notice it. You become kind of quite desensitized to the smell of it. But I, all I thought I could smell the first week I moved back to the city was there's so much chlorine in this water.
And that's another problem I have is chlorine is just too much. You shouldn't be drinking that much chlorine in water.
tyson (41:35.53)
Yeah.
tyson (41:41.198)
Sure. So what about things, okay, this is interesting timing because I've had a number of conversations with friends recently around everything that we're talking about now, water quality, chlorine exposure, but also just going to the local swimming pool. So my last job for today, my last task on the list today is have this conversation with you. And I said to my boy, after this, as we do each week, I take him to the local swimming pool, which is obviously pumped with chlorine. And the idea, every time I go there now, in the back of my mind, I'm like,
Lucia (41:59.613)
Hahaha
tyson (42:11.352)
healthiest decision. I justify it by going, I know like yeah you're building his immune system, you're developing your exposure to all these germs but the truth is I don't know what I'm talking about and it's just an easier thing to say to myself than oh my gosh this might be really bad. Would you swim in chlorinated water?
Lucia (42:27.889)
Look, I do, because to be honest, I can't live in a bubble, right? And I'm not gonna not let my kids swim and enjoy summer because there's chlorine in the pool. Of course, I'd love to find some magnesium pools and be all holistic that way, but the real world isn't so conscious and aware, right? So I just cut my losses. I used to...
tyson (42:33.614)
Sure, yes, this is the thing.
tyson (42:40.938)
Hmm.
Lucia (42:54.921)
pack, because to mitigate chlorine on the skin, you actually need to put some vitamin C back in there. So our strategy is to actually put some like moisturizer on your skin before you go in like a chlorinated pool so that you've got a barrier. And then afterwards shower and actually have like water with literally vitamin C, ascorbic, sodium ascorbate or something similar, which is vitamin C mixed up.
just like vitamin C water and you just put it all over your skin afterwards. Um, I remember reading up about this years ago that really helped mitigate chlorine absorbing into the skin straight after swimming. Now I started doing that and then I thought, this is so much work. Like there's so much work and we're chasing little kids are like, come here, come here, I'm going to put my vitamin C on you. I just, I just thought I'm done. I was done with it. So, so I don't do it anymore. I. Like all I can say is, and I think most people would agree is do what you can.
tyson (43:35.878)
Hehehehe.
Lucia (43:51.429)
and stop stressing about it so much. I think it's more important that you drink filtered water and try and mitigate chlorinated showers every single day. But if you're swimming in summer and you're gonna do an hour or so in the water, have a normal shower after and just don't stress so much about it. I've stopped stressing about it. However, I have seen, my son in particular, he's very sensitive and he tends to pick up colds and is always kind of sneezing and snotty in summer and I think it's the chlorine in the pools that is doing it.
Once we go back into summer season, he starts swimming in the swimming pools again, the first week or two, he gets a cold. And it's always after swimming in chlorinated water. And I think he's particularly sensitive to it.
tyson (44:31.962)
Yeah, yeah. Are there any, I could be butchering this. Is it iodine? Someone said get some, you mentioned magnesium as a way to, was that the alternative to chlorinated pools? Is that what the alternative is? Yeah. And is there anything else? Or the vitamin C solution, if you're up to it, is perhaps the one that you would recommend?
Lucia (44:45.797)
Yeah, yeah, you can find magnesium pools. Yeah, yeah.
Lucia (44:53.949)
Yeah, that's all I've read up. I haven't gone, I started reading up about this some time ago and I forgot what else I read, but I haven't gone down the rabbit hole of swimming in chlorinated pools for some time. I just kind of let it go. I just thought, you know what, in summer, personally, I think just try and have, you know, your normal shower after, and you know, summer's a good chance to really get your vitamin D levels up as well from the sun, so you should be right.
I normally find in winter everyone's very sick because their vitamin D levels get very low because they're not out in the sun. Like usually everyone's vitamin D levels tank in winter. So you know, you got to just kind of weigh it up, right? So
tyson (45:31.874)
For sure, I love that you say we can't live in a bubble. It's so true, that's the thing, because you can continually dig and dig and dig and find more and more and more to be scared of. And I mean, it almost becomes a little bit of a self obsession if you're not careful. The end of the day, this is what I always say to my wife, I go, no matter how good you get at health, the end of the day we're all gonna die. And that's kind of like a humble, a humble.
Lucia (45:54.557)
And it's so true and I think that if you get all too, to get like more philosophical about it, I think it's more, I think it's just as important if not more in life to look after your emotional health and your mental health and your connections and relationships, that's gonna drive you to greater health to some extent because we can make ourselves sick with worry over this as well. And that's gonna cause more detriments to your health.
than you swimming in a chlorine pool. If you're gonna stress about the fact that you're swimming in there and then be very anxious all the time, that's worse for your nervous system and body to be stressing about it. So choose where you're gonna hit it hard and then the other stuff, don't worry about it.
tyson (46:40.166)
Yeah, I'm in a rental here in Point Lonsdale where I'm living at the moment. So the idea of doing any real change to the waterpumps, I don't know if it's an option, I haven't even looked into it, but for someone in my situation who right now isn't gonna go out and change the whole filtration system, are there anything that you know of that are a temporary solution to exposing your kids to chlorine or whatever else that might be in your tap water?
Lucia (46:58.365)
Mm.
Lucia (47:02.065)
Yes.
Lucia (47:06.469)
Yeah, they do sell water filters, like shower filters, which is just like an attachment to the shower head and that'll run through like activated carbon filters and some of them are known to remove chlorine as well. So you can put adapt, like that kind of filter on your shower and for the bath as well. I used to have those as well for a while until I changed my mains water. Because I.
you know, I own my house. So it's, it's easier. But I did have that for a while. So you can, I would do that for showers for short, put a shower. You can even have filters on the shower head that also have vitamin C in them as well. And I could, they run like, yeah, I've seen those as well. There's some cool filters out there that you can add to the shower head or as the, as a shower wand as well that has the filter already. Yeah.
tyson (47:49.861)
Ah.
tyson (47:57.294)
I thought it'd be a handy one to take to the pool. So, rather than carrying around your little jar of solution. What are your other non-negotiables? Obviously the tap water is one of them. What else is it that you're just not gonna budge on?
Lucia (48:08.233)
Oh, good question, good question. I wasn't gonna ask you before. I would say the meat quality for me is a non-negotiable. I mean, of course you can't control everywhere you go, but I feel like meat quality is a non-negotiable. I do, I have kind of let it go a little bit with vegetables and organic vegetables all the time because it's so hard to find and.
I feel like it's very taxing doing that grocery shop all the time to have everything organic all the time. You know, we're consuming food all the time every day. And then people get very stressed out about what if I eat out? What do I do if I eat out? You know, so I've let that go. But I do try and eat as organic as much as possible. What else is not negotiable for me?
Lucia (48:55.537)
What else, what else? I would say, as far as my lifestyle goes.
you know, just fundamentals of health, I would say exercise and good sleep. Good sleep is really, really important. I think everyone I talked to has pretty poor sleep. So I really try really hard with that as well.
Lucia (49:18.437)
And what else? I would say actually, lately for me in the last probably six, seven months has been more of the emotional health support for myself, like really working on my self, my self development. That's become non-negotiable for me now. I used to kind of, who cares, who cares, who cares? But for me showing up in my life in a really good positive state as much as possible and being in that, being in that
Mindset for how I approach things in my life how I approach relationships how I raise my kids to me That's non-negotiable now. I need to be in a good place and I really work on that just about every day. So yeah Eight and four
tyson (49:53.483)
Yeah.
tyson (49:57.246)
Yeah. How are you kids?
Eight and four, yeah, interesting. Now I'm just asking, because I've got a three year old and a one year old, and I've noticed, like if I'm honest, I think that's probably, that wasn't non-negotiable for me for a long time, like making sure that each day I took time to meditate, I took time to, you know, whether it was positive affirmations or it was, you know, just some reframing of negative thoughts. And that's one thing that I think I could probably say over the last few years of let slip, based on the fact that you know better than anyone. I mean, with two kids, how intense that is,
that you gotta clean, you gotta sleep, you gotta cook, you gotta do whatever it is that you gotta do. And the idea of having any time to actually dedicate towards mental health, for a lot of us, it's sort of eliminated. I remember a friend of mine, she's got two kids as well, that'd be slightly older than yours now.
But she said to you guys, I just sort of, I felt like I just lost touch with myself when my kids were around four or five. She said, I used to see myself as so bubbly and uplifting and happy. She goes, I had my kids and I love my kids, but at the same time it was so taxing, so exhausting, so all consuming that like any time just to refill my own tank was kind of zapped. And I've got like a little asterisk next to that for me for next year is like, okay, find something else to cut out of your day.
Lucia (51:09.373)
Yes.
tyson (51:15.518)
so you can start to get back on track with that. Because I know I'm such a nicer person to be around when I've, well, first of all, when I've exercised, but also when I'm taking time to actually get on top of, you know, just negative thoughts that I might have let loose in my mind for a little while.
Lucia (51:32.637)
Yes, absolutely. Oh, wow, I have a whole other conversation. We could have a whole other hour on that. I will say this. I empathize with all parents because I'm in it and I've been in it and I'm kind of.
They're getting a little bit older, so it's getting easier. So I can see the light at the end of the tunnel a little bit. But when they're really young, especially the first three years of life of any child, it is all consuming you. I feel like it doesn't matter what you do, you will lose yourself. You will lose yourself, you will lose your sleep, you won't matter at all to yourself because that's not your priority. Your priority is in...
Oh, did I get my eight hours sleep or not? First of all, you're not going to, so you just stop caring about it. And then every waking moment, every moment of your day and even night, I remember thinking, this is day and night. It's day and night, day and night, and it doesn't end, ever. And I get it, like, it's so hard. And all I would do is like, at least I will just focus on, I'll at least eat well today. If I can just do that.
tyson (52:17.194)
Heheheheh.
tyson (52:36.724)
I'm sorry.
Lucia (52:45.681)
I've done a lot. Exercise went out the window for a long time for me as well. With my first child, I got back into it really, really well, like really well. Second child completely went downhill for quite some years, probably a good two and a half, almost three years, where I was like, who am I? I don't exercise. What's exercise? And I think that you have to give yourself that grace as a parent and say, okay.
And you hear the parents say it to you, but you don't believe them until you live it, right? You hear the parents say, these two shall pass. I'm like, whatever, you know? Like, and it does pass, but you have to accept as a parent that your first two and a half to three years of parenting is going to be so intense, and you're going to have to accept, yes, you're not gonna have time to exercise, you're not gonna have time to meditate. What's that even, right?
tyson (53:22.413)
Mmmm
tyson (53:43.476)
Cheers.
Lucia (53:44.557)
you're lucky to have had three meals that day. You know, raising children is very consuming. It's completely consuming and I don't sugar coat it. And a lot of my friends say to me, you don't sell it very well, the whole parenting thing. But I think once they start to get older, especially once they hit four, five, depending on the personality of that child, you start seeing that time comes back to you and you start seeing that, oh.
They're okay doing their own thing for a while, or I can leave them for a while with a babysitter or with the other parent or whatever, and do things for myself. And that's when we really should really focus on ourselves again as much as we can and cultivate the meditation, the exercise, the self-development, the good mental health state. It can really run itself to the ground during those early years of parenting where you just think.
I don't even know who I am. I don't even find joy anymore. I don't know who is me anymore. I don't know what I like doing anymore. My life is just like raising this tiny little person. I don't know what I'm gonna do. So it can be really daunting. It's a whole other conversation I feel around getting that, finding you and getting your support again in that parenting phase, very difficult.
tyson (55:05.558)
Yeah, I used to love hearing about people's morning routines and finding out like, what is it that successful people are doing to kickstart their day? And now, like, whenever I see, like, no offense to 20 year olds, but whenever I see a 20 year old pushing their morning routine, they're gonna like to wake up and I'll just do some gentle yoga in bed and I'll have a coffee and meditate for an hour and do some stretch. I'm like, bro, you don't have kids? Like, I get it. I reckon it's good that you're
tyson (55:35.032)
jealous of the fact that you get to do it. Like I'm not criticizing the actual practice, but it's so funny. I remember I'm 36 now at 20. I was probably the same guy. I was obsessed with improvement and wellness and whatever else you might wanna call it. And I was doing those things. It's probably honestly more than anyone else. I'm looking back at my 20 year old self and laughing and also cringing because it's like, oh bro, like literally the, yeah, literally the, sorry, no, yeah, go.
Lucia (55:47.218)
Yes.
Lucia (55:57.777)
Oh, again, I hear you, I hear you. I was the same way. I mean, not when I was 20. Admittedly, when I was 20, I was not doing that. I was at uni, I was at uni, and I was at uni, and I was partying, that was my life. But then once I hit about 25, I got really into fitness and health. That's kind of how my journey started, is that I wanted to get fit and healthy. I started doing lots of running.
tyson (56:12.078)
Hehe
Lucia (56:26.577)
similar to you, like I was doing like 10K races and training to do 10K races. And then one day I kind of realized, I wanna look like, I wanna get like, I'm fit but I don't look fit. I wanna look fit, why don't I look fit, you know? So that kind of was a catalyst to me going more into strength training. And then that led into me doing bodybuilding for some years. And I did a couple of years of competition.
And that journey was what got me into the nutrition aspect because I learned how to eat for aesthetics to get on stage. And I did it naturally. I was 100% natural. A lot of people aren't, but I was not into like going too extreme with that, but I also was realistic about what I want. I want to achieve healthier. That was the primary goal. And I did a lot of extreme dieting, I have to say, to achieve my goals, but I also learned a lot about how to eat.
And at that time I was doing a lot of macro kind of tracking and calorie counting and really understanding if I eat like this, I'll look like this. If I eat like this, I'll feel like this. And I made a really strong connection at that time with what you eat and how you look, but also how you feel. Because when I was dieting sort of probably a good four weeks out from the competition, that's when the diet really had to dial in.
And I was very, very strict. My routine was on point. I was very diligent and almost like a freaking sergeant about it. I did not miss a gym session. I did not miss anything. I did not miss my meal prep. I did not eat out and stuff my diet. I did not drink any alcohol. I did not drink coffee. It was really, really full on. But I also realized if I get very extreme with this, my health also suffers.
tyson (58:17.243)
Hmm.
Lucia (58:17.289)
quite a lot. And then it was during that time that I then fell pregnant with my son. And because of pregnancy, I was forced to not diet, I was forced to not exercise the way I was. And that started a whole new journey for me of health. And I'm sure you know this too, Tyson, like when you have kids, you start again with understanding health, because you're suddenly understanding
childhood health again, because you know as an adult you don't realize a lot of things because you're an adult so you don't you kind of You were a child, but you know you didn't take care of yourself, so you don't really notice what happened you know But when you have a child and you're responsible for their health and their development then health becomes a really different perspective for you and that's when most people wake up to health is because Suddenly you're in you're in control and in charge and you're making decisions for a little person's health
And when it declines, it's on you. And so you become very aware of what is real health. What is health really? How do I navigate this properly so that this person has really good health outcomes? And that's how it all started for me.
tyson (59:29.946)
Man, that's so true. I've noticed that so much with my kid. We're quite strict with the food that he eats, with the exception of whenever we go down to my dad and his wife's house, they're like your classic grandparents. They've got their ice creams and chocolates and lollies. And I just go, oh my gosh, like it's one of those moments where I just have to go, okay, it's gonna happen, just let it happen. But Charlie is his name. My three-year-old, he often says to me, he's like, hey, after we go for a swim, we go, can I get chips? Can I get ice cream? We go, mate, no, mom's cooked dinner. We've got a good dinner at home.
can't I? And just for, just because I didn't know what else to say, I was just like, mate, that food makes you fat. Like, I don't want you to be fat kid. I want you to be healthy, whatever. But then it's hard to get awkward because now we started to understand what fat is when we go down to the pool or when we're out, he goes, Hey dad, is that kid fat? I go, well, yes, but you can't say that buddy. So I'm going to get in trouble. It's awkward.
Lucia (01:00:16.433)
Yeah, I know it's, I know it's, yeah, it's, it's a, that's a whole other thing to navigate. It's just you gotta go, how do we explain things without making them judgmental, you know? So I, I definitely, yeah, I say to my kids, sugar feeds the bad bugs and the bad bugs make you sick. That's why I don't like you, that's, that's why I don't like you having sugar because sugar feeds the bad bugs both in your mouth and in your tummy. And when you feel
tyson (01:00:25.859)
I know!
tyson (01:00:36.342)
That's a good, that's a great way to put it.
Lucia (01:00:44.625)
like you have tummy pains and all sorts of health problems because you ate too much sugar and now the bad bugs are out of control. Yeah.
tyson (01:00:51.11)
Yeah, yeah, that's so good. I was getting in trouble from my mum the other day because she wasn't happy about the way that I was, you know, framing this sugar conversation with my kid. But that's true and it's helpful. Like it sounds as though that's something a three year old could understand.
Lucia (01:01:03.621)
Yeah, I mean I have a four year old so I explain it like that. I say to her, we have to brush your teeth because if we don't brush your teeth, the bad bugs, like they eat the sugar on your teeth and then you get holes in your teeth. Do you want holes in your teeth? No, I don't want holes in my teeth. Okay, well we have to, I'm like, let's brush the bad bugs away so that they don't eat your teeth. That's what I say.
tyson (01:01:22.062)
It's so good, it's so good. How does she take that? Does she buy it? Does she understand what you're saying? Hey, go for it. Oh man, Lucy, honestly, I could talk to you. I could talk to you for another hour, but as I mentioned, I'm about to go on dad duty and I'm gonna lose a whole heap of respect and love off the kiddie if I don't get him down to the pool. But man, we'll love to do it again with you at some stage because this is fun. I feel like we're just scratching the surface of what it is you can talk about. So hey, Allah.
Lucia (01:01:26.177)
Oh yeah, and then she's like, okay, you know, like.
Lucia (01:01:50.453)
Oh, absolutely. It's funny because I first thought, what are we going to talk about? And then I have so much to talk about. So, yeah.
tyson (01:01:55.362)
Yeah, I had no concerns about that. I mean, I've heard and read enough of what you've had to say to know that I was gonna have plenty to talk to you about, but yeah, you're right. I feel like literally we've just scratched the surface, but thanks so much for making the time. I'm glad we had a chance to make it happen.
Lucia (01:02:03.255)
Ha ha ha. Cool.
Lucia (01:02:10.105)
No worries. Thank you so much for inviting me on here. I'm glad we actually made it happen this time and I've had a really good time talking to you. So appreciate it.
tyson (01:02:15.574)
Awesome. Yeah, right back at you. Awesome. I'll leave you to it. I'll see you later, everybody. Awesome. I'll cut that off there. Hey, that was so fun. That was a great conversation.
Lucia (01:02:18.803)
No worries.
Lucia (01:02:24.869)
Yeah, 100%. I enjoyed that. I always enjoy these podcasts. I don't know why I really