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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
00:00
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man podcast. My name is Jesse French and once again, excited to be joined by my fellow co-host. Chris Bruno. Hey guys. Welcome back. Chris, good to be with you, man. Yeah. Well, hey, in our last conversation, we entered into the space of us as husbands, as men and thinking through, I know, into the deep end, we attempted to Wade and yeah, just offered some.
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kind of initial categories, some ways of being that we talk about in the other spaces of restoration project that we really feel is just directly applicable and translatable into our marriages, the postures of awareness, curiosity, and kindness. And today would love to continue that and really excited to share a resource that we're excited to offer that for guys that are wanting some just continued intention and resourcing in their marriage. Yeah. That you've created. So love to tee you up in that way. Yeah. Thanks.
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Well, let me start with this back in 2020, just as COVID was happening and all that kind of stuff as a counselor in a totally in the other spaces where I find myself, I was working with a lot of couples and my colleague, Tracy Johnson, as we were talking about the couples that we were working with, and then all of a sudden COVID happened and we had to go virtual and all of that. We couldn't be face to face anymore.
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We were like, what are we going to do with these couples? Because now already the things that were happening in their marriage were, there were some struggles, there were some bumps, you know, in the road and all that. And now they're stuck at home with one another and they can't go anywhere. And the kids are at home, businesses at home, like all the things are now at home. And so just as COVID kind of turned the volume up on a lot of marriages, they're like, how are we going to help these couples? And,
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There are couples that are married couples that are in different spaces of like pre-marriage, early marriage, mid-marriage, older marriages, wherever they were, there were some things that they needed and some input that they needed, but not just like information, but more kind of a pathway of engagement, a pathway of understanding relationship, some intentionally
02:23
And outside of the realm of tips and techniques for better communication, it was understanding a lot more of like, what is behind the scenes happening in your lives and in your stories as a woman, as a man, and then together as a couple that is really coming out in the context of COVID, you know, five years ago now. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. At that time, Jesse, we launched something brand new that was for us and it was, you know, brand new for the world was called the Thrive Marriage Lab.
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And this was an online space because of, you know, the forced online space of COVID. We were all in. But it was an online space that we launched and it has been going strong ever since. And even after COVID kind of went away and we got back to normal life, Thrive Marriage Lab has continued and we have continued to grow and shape and work with couples in this kind of way. And today we wanted to talk about that for husbands and wives.
03:22
who are listening because as I said earlier, like we don't do marriage counseling and restoration project, but we know that a lot of men need marriage help and marriage resources in order to be the restorative man that God has called them to be. And so this is one of the things that we wanted to bring to your awareness and invite you to participate in throughout this coming year. So that's where we're at. So this is, as you just said, right, this is not an offering that is,
03:49
underneath the Organization of Restoration Project, but it's actually through Restory, which is, we like to say, kind of our sister organization to which you also founded, right? There's so much shared ethos. We have staff that are actually in both spaces. And so yeah, tell us some more about Thrive. How's that different, right? Yeah, well, I'll start with this. We called it Thrive because we have a passion at Restory that every marriage is not just kind of surviving.
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but that every marriage is moving with some energy and delight and goodness and is thriving. And so what we've seen across the board is that a lot of couples just kind of find a status quo and they find a sense of like managing and surviving and just trying to like live life and go to work and take care of the kids and pay the bills and all that kind of stuff. And the marriage gets that back burner attention.
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And what we wanted to do was we wanted to create a space that would move the marriage to the front burner and actually give it more attention so that all the other things can go better and go well. So we called it Thrive because of that. The other thing I'll say first is a lot of couples have a lot of great intention. And I know when I was first married, Beth and I were like, okay, we're going to read a marriage book together.
05:10
and we're going to talk about it and there's questions at the end of the chapter. And then maybe we're going to talk about it with our small group as well at church or whatever. So we got these books, we started into it. And like three chapters in we were super diligent and it was great and we were talking and we were growing and then something happened and then a holiday came and then a small group broke up and then, you know, we went on vacation or whatever and that highly intentioned reading of that wonderful marriage book.
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got three chapters in and we never got to chapter four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. And that book just stayed on the nightstand. And every time we would go to bed, we would look at the book and we'd feel guilty about how awful we were. The worst. Not following through on our intentions and all that kind of stuff. And then eventually the book just got slid onto the bookshelf and it was forgotten until the next round. You know, three years later, we're like, we should read a book. We should get into it. Right? Kind of thing. So there's couples that are like that who want more.
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and they don't know how to get more and they don't have the structure and the like month to month movement outside of themselves to keep them moving along. Then there's the couples that are in like crisis and the couples that are just on the brink of separation or divorce or whatever. And there's more input that is needed for a couple that's at that point.
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And you know, a book and some content and a guide along the way is not gonna, you need some more intense work if that is where you are. So we want to thrive marriage lab to kind of fill the in between to be more than a marriage book and like not as much as what you're going to get in full on marriage counseling. And if you're in a crisis situation, right. But the reality is in the bell curve, most couples are in the middle. Most couples are like,
06:59
I love my wife, she loves me and we want more. And we are just status quoing, surviving, you know, roommate situation and we just want more. So thrive is in the middle of that. So what thrive is bottom line is that thrive is an online marriage community that is guided by myself and then my colleague Tracy Johnson. Both of us are marriage counselors and it is a 12 month cohort of couples.
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that spend one year moving through a very intentional journey of growth, of discovery, of conversation, of some challenging conversations for sure, but really learning how to find one another, how to be aware and curious and kind with one another in your marriage. And it is online. Anyone anywhere in the world can be part of it. And we've got a whole structure.
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that is set up just to help you go from A to B and B to C so that you don't lose your momentum. Like the book that's just gonna sit on your nightstand. Totally. So. Man, I so appreciate your guys' willingness to identify kind of the gap, right? Of this, like you said, probably majority of the population that finds themselves with, hey, I do want something more, and just the desire for something that is more intentional than at your own, you know.
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book consumption type of space. I want to go back to something that you said. You talked about the reasoning behind languaging and actually calling it thrive and just the desire for marriages that are flourishing, that are thriving, that are not just surviving. I can remember a conversation you and I had a bunch of years ago, and I think hopefully I remembered right, but we were talking and I think you made the comment, like, really when we look at our marriages, the idea of status quo might actually be a misnomer.
08:57
The reality for sure of managing, Hey, we're surviving the word, keeping the boat afloat. Totally makes sense. That is true. But I remember you saying like to actually this concept of, Hey, we're just staying stationary in a status quo actually isn't true. Like it really can feel as binary as like, Hey, are we moving towards a greater place of health or are we moving further away from that? And the ideal of some stationary midpoint to where we're smack in the middle.
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actually isn't true. Like it really is. There's a momentum in one direction or the other. Oh my gosh. I'm so glad you said that because you're totally right. And I mean, every relationship is either moving toward or away. It's either moving toward or away and status quo or whatever that kind of middle ground. If it feels status quo, there is relational entropy that is sucking energy out of that.
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and you're losing energy, even if you don't know, it's just kind of like siphoning it off a little bit at a time. But unless you're intentionally moving towards one another and growing in your love and tending to the garden and fertilizing the garden and continuing to get to know who your spouse is, unless there is movement in that direction, then there is movement away. It's either or. There's no stasis, there's no static. And often here, like, you know, when people will say,
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ask the question like, how's your marriage? People will say, well, our marriage is fine. Our marriage is good. And I want to ask that very question, like, how are you moving towards one another with intention? If your marriage is good, then that means that you're intentionally moving towards one another. If your marriage is fine, that means that you're moving away. And so like, that's where I love this space, because it isn't that in between of that book and the crisis of every marriage needs to be investing in its marriage.
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Every husband needs to be investing in his marriage. Every wife needs to be investing in her marriage because otherwise it will just be a drift. It might be a long drift, it might be a short drift, but it will be a drift. Yeah, yeah. The other part that I think is important is, and that we're trying to hit with the Thrive Marriage Lab, is that, so as a marriage counselor, it kind of sounds counterintuitive for me to say like, don't come to marriage counseling. Okay? If you need marriage counseling, go to marriage counseling.
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Right. And at the same time, like not every couple needs the full on marriage counseling, and not every couple can because it is time consuming and it is expensive and you have to figure out what to do with the kids and get time off work and all those kinds of things. So there is super value in doing marriage counseling, but not every couple actually needs that weekly or every other week thing. And as a marriage counselor, please do that if you do need that. And we certainly have options for you at Restory, but
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The thing we wanted to hit was that middle ground of it's priced at a way that is accessible to almost everyone. It is not as time consuming as what it would be to get to an office and do marriage counseling. It is at the trying to hit the sweet spot so that almost every couple has access to good guided kind of cued up conversations and content that's going to move you towards one another throughout that 12 month journey. Yeah.
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I love that. Yeah. Chris, what would you say to people who are listening and maybe there's some level of resonance as they hear some of the why behind it. But I'd imagine too, there's also any of us, probably if we're honest and we think about the desire for more in a relationship, the desire for more health, right? All of us also probably realize like, hey, that requires risk, that the inertia is going one way towards...
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probably regression, right? But to actually push forward to move towards is going to ask of us a different way of being, right? Like the very definition of change. And so what would you say to all of us, right? As we think about the risk that something like this requires? Oh, I think I would say it's risky either way. Either one is a risk.
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So it's either a risk to step in and invest and make movement towards your spouse in that vulnerable direction, or it is a risk to let that entropy happen. And when that one year, two year, three years passes along and that relational entropy has occurred, you're in a much riskier place than you would have been if you had stepped in. So I'll say this, Jesse, that both are risky.
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One is a risk of vulnerability, and one is a risk of resistance and the risk of kind of putting your head in the sand. It doesn't get better on its own. Gardens don't grow on their own. No. Now, weeds will grow in a garden unless it is tended. And so like there's risk in either direction. That's helpful and sobering, right?
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To be like, no, actually, actually the... What would you like to do next? You are in a risk prevalent reality. You cannot avoid it. Either way, either way. So maybe let me describe a little bit about what the Thrive Marriage Out Lab is and what we do and how that is. So first of all, as I said, it is a 12 month cohort that you join. It is a journey that you are moving on and we are asking couples to commit to the whole 12 months when they sign up. So that there is that level of...
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consistency and accountability and continued steps forward. And each month builds on the previous month. And so we're continually moving in a direction. Now the reality is that we have several couples, you know, through the five years that we've been doing it, we have several couples that do it. And then they're like, we want more. So they come and they do it again. And the reality is that even if they're in their second or third year of going through thrive, the marriage is a year older and a year deeper or two years older and two years deep.
15:07
So the marriage is just like a river, right? The river continues to flow. It's the same river, but it's different water. And I feel like that's the same of what these marriages are, that who you are at, you know, your 15th year is not who you are at your 16th year or your 30th year and your 31st year. So it is a journey that we lead through these 12 months. We have a topic for each month and those topics range from like navigating conflict to then getting deeper to understanding your family of origin and how you were raised affects
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how you are in your relationship and your marriage, what you bring to the table as a husband, as a wife to your marriage, into issues of kind of understanding sexuality, content around grief, content around play, content around how do you really tune in to one another and develop a sense of like attachment and connection and intimacy and relationship with one another. So.
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a whole variety of topics that, like I said, build on one another, 12 topics that build on one another, month to month. Each month, there is a live virtual gathering of everybody in the cohort that is a one hour conversation. And in that hour, we share a prerecorded video of teaching and then we host the conversation, the discussion for the couple to ask. The thing is, is that we recognize that transformation happens between the two of you.
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not because of something brilliant that I say. And so anything that we have to say is to key, set up the conversation between the two of you. So once a month, we have a one hour gathering for everybody in the cohort. Once a month, then also we have a live gathering for husbands and a live gathering for wives based around the content, that topic for the month. So the husbands will meet with me, the wives will meet with Tracy, and we discuss it more from that husband perspective, wife perspective.
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Also then we have an interview with a marriage expert, somebody who's written the books or speaks or does conferences, whatever it is, who's offering some of their expertise in the particular area of that month. And then we also have a guide, a content like a downloadable PDF that is a curated conversation for you to be having with one another in a date night scenario where we're asking you to talk through various things around that topic each month as well.
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So there's a lot of things that are going into each month and each topic, and then we keep going and we keep going and we bring you along in the journey. So all of that, as I said, to try to make it accessible is for $149 a month. So far less than a counseling session. Right, right. Far less than a counseling session and far more than you're gonna get from just the book on your nightstand. And even far more than you're gonna get from if you go to a marriage conference, you know,
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a marriage weekend or something that your church is hosting for marriages, like that's a one-off. Brilliant. Go do those things, right? Go invest in those things also. But what you're going to get in the weekend is not, it's hard to carry that through an entire year. It's just like, you know, working out. The longer you do it, the more consistent you are, the stronger you get, the more consistent you are in your marriage, the stronger your marriage is going to get. So that's why it's a 12 month journey that we've designed. And it's a lot less expensive for people.
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The beautiful part is that for RP, when you go and links will be given here in the show notes and all that kind of stuff for this, but if you go to sign up and you use the coupon code capital R, capital P, standing for restoration project, just RP, in the coupon code you'll get 20 bucks off each month, so it's not 149, it's 129 for anybody with RP. Chris, thank you for, like, I hope as we're hearing this, even in a couple minutes on a podcast episode, just hear like,
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the thoughtfulness of how this has been built and really honed. Like that's been one of the fun things for me to see kind of be an observer over the years of like how you guys have continued to craft this and mold this based upon feedback from people and based upon doing it for several years to really feel like, hey, this is the sweet spot to be able to offer marriages such great value and do that in a way where genuine transformation is possible. Yeah, yeah. And at the end of the day, I think it's basically like an hour a week.
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would you like to invest an hour a week in your most important relationship? And I think most people as an automatic, like, of course, I want to invest an hour a week. And really that's all it takes to do this. One other thing I'll share around the thrive marriage lab is that through the years, several people in thrive have been like, this is awesome. This is fantastic as a foundation, but we want even more.
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and we still don't want to do that weekly marriage counseling. Can you guys offer something more? And so there is another level that if you are looking to really invest in your marriage relationship, there's something that we call the Thrive Journey, and this is limited to only six couples, each cohort. So it's a really limited thing, and here's why. Because for six couples who want to get even deeper, you have everything I just described in Thrive, plus then,
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You meet with me or Tracy once a month for particular marriage coaching, virtually, for you and your spouse in marriage coaching for you. And then you get some extra time in each one of those gatherings so that the Thrive Journey couples get an extra half an hour of processing with one another. And so it's kind of like you're developing like this a little bit more of a small group, marriage small group who's processing the Thrive stuff. So we spend
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a little extra time with you in that virtual space as well. And then it includes a live in-person five-day marriage intensive with the group. So all six couples come, Tracy and I come, and we spend a week of doing, you know, five days doing more of that marriage intensive space. That has been one of the most rewarding things I have done is being in this Thrive journey with some of these couples to see.
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their intentionality, their investment in themselves and their relationship and to take it to the next level. Now, thrive itself is one thing and fantastic and so many couples have enjoyed that. And then just for those six couples, it is wonderful to watch the transformation that happens over the course of a year. Man, I love that. So those, yeah, that's obviously a... Those two offerings is what we've got, yeah. Yeah, that's so great. And Chris, there's like a time-bound nature to this, right? Yeah.
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because of, I would imagine because of the way that you structured it as a cohort to begin together, to end together, there's a reality of like, hey, this is open and available for a certain amount of time. Yeah. So like I said, because it is a cohort, we start once a year. It only starts once a year. And then once that starts, there's no kind of additions into it after that. So our first gathering for the next cohort in 2025 is April 6th, 2025. We do the gathering
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on Sunday nights. That has been the most accessible for most couples. So Sunday nights and the first gathering for month number one is April 6th. And that launches into this whole new cohort that will last until, you know, next March kind of thing. So if you're interested, get in now because we're going to close and then you can't get in until the next year. So we already have lots of people on a wait list who have been interested throughout the year. And so hopefully you can jump in with us this year if you're on the wait list.
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But if you're interested in it, get in now because you'll have to wait a whole nother year. There's not a limit to the number of people that can be part of Thrive. So just jump in, get in now and give it a whirl. Love it. Chris, thanks for your willingness to see me and to step into that space and for the goodness that comes from that. Thank you. Oh yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Jesse. Cool.