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Tomorrow can be different from today.
Our lives often leave us feeling hopeless—like nothing will ever change. But perspective is everything. When you know where to look, hope can be found in the spaces and places you least expect.
Join Jason Gore (Lead Pastor of Hope Community Church) for a fresh perspective, practical steps, and weekly encouragement that hope really is possible… even in real life.
No political party has your best interest in mind.
No political party really has the end all agenda
of you experiencing the abundant life
that you were created to live.
That's right. Other than Jesus.
And so, if we're really going
to find hope in this election season,
and gosh, even so much more in our life, I hope, I pray
that our listeners would remember, okay.
Or maybe come to at least tip their hat
to maybe there is a better way
that's bigger than this whole political thing.
And then it's in the way of Jesus.
Welcome to the Hope and Real Life podcast with Jason Gore.
Our team is passionate
and committed to bringing you more hope in the everyday
real areas of your life.
If this conversation and content is valuable for you,
please do us a favor, like, subscribe, and even share.
You never know how valuable it could be
to share a little bit of hope with someone else.
Let's get the conversation started.
We are here with our good friend,
brother La Crump. Welcome to the show.
What's up my guy? We are here today
to talk about something that man we're, uh,
who knows when this is gonna get dropped,
but heading into a political season.
Mm-Hmm. This episode is somehow supposed to revolve around
how in the world can we find hope in the midst
of a political season
that is undoubtedly gonna leave many wanting more.
Yeah. And so, uh, but
before we jump in, Lance,
just in case there is someone who's listening
for the first time, doesn't know anything about you,
why don't you just tell us a little bit about
Yourself? Yeah. I'm Leon
Crump, uh, pastor Renovation Church.
Founded with my wife a few years back,
former NFL Player and Wrestler.
Yep. And, uh, I love walking through gardens,
which has become a, uh, uh, a point
of being bullied at this, at this, uh, juncture in my life.
This is an odd time to interrupt
and drop in a Hey, if you're interested in walking
through botanical gardens,
you can check out season one episode, whatever with Leon.
But yeah. Go back in the archives. That's
So, that's who I am.
I am, I am a gentle bull.
Oh my goodness. Alright, so here we are.
We're ready to talk about politics.
Let's just jump right in. Yeah.
What, what is it that comes to your mind, uh,
when you think the word politics
Now? Division?
Yeah.
Uh, when I hear the word, the very first thing that comes
to my mind these days is division divide,
uh, divisive.
Yeah. Uh, and,
and it's really the way that the stage has been set, uh,
for, for us to navigate the political world
here in the us. Yeah.
It, it's funny because at the end of the day, like if, if,
if the root word of politics is polish,
which in the Greek essentially means like,
how do we live in a society?
Yeah. You would think that the goal would be for everybody
to work towards the best end all goal.
Correct. And you just said divisiveness.
Like you can't help but turn on the news
and see, like, it doesn't feel like it's a group
of people trying to figure out what's best.
It feels like politics is about, hey, there's side A
and there's side B and we're in a fight.
That's right. That's
Exactly right. And, and the only
way that we win is if my side wins.
And there's very little conversation actually about what's
best for the people overall. Well,
The, I mean, the conversation has died
and anyone who believes
that our political system is built for the best interest
of the people that it's supposed to serve, uh,
unfortunately it's not paying attention.
Now, there was a time, uh,
in fact we were talking about this briefly Yeah.
Before the show. There was a time in the late seventies,
early eighties where,
and I'm gonna talk about Christians for a second.
Yeah. 'cause that's ultimately, um, you know,
at the root of the problem Yeah.
And the solution if possible.
But in any church in America in the late seventies
and eighties, you could find an equal number of Democrats
and Republicans in that church, 50 50 sitting next
to each other, worshiping together, um, um,
discipling each other, raising families with each other.
And it was probably the last time where there was a sense
of, we're trying to get to the same place,
but we just believe we go about it differently.
You wanna spend more conservatively, I want
to spend more liberally.
You wanna focus on the macro, uh, um, geopolitical issues.
Right. And, and economic issues.
I wanna focus on the micro issues and poor people.
And, and, and so there was, there was a sense
where you are not my enemy.
We just have different ideas. Right.
And then over the last 30 to 40 years,
there's been an evolution
where now we can't have a different idea.
If you think differently than me,
if you see the same issue differently than
me, well, you're my enemy.
We just, we, we don't just have different ideas.
And, and I think part of that is
because the polar ends of the political spectrum,
as far left as you want to go
to like recycling urine and drinking it.
And as far Right. This is a real thing. That
It is a real thing. It's
A real thing I've heard about. I know. I just,
And as far right as you want to go to, uh, you know, uh,
rabid, unchecked capitalism, that, that leave people
who never had a shot behind.
Right. Those are the voices
that are actually controlling the narrative.
And there's a bunch of us in the middle Yeah.
That are just trying to figure out how to be good Christians
and good citizens Yeah.
In a world that's feel like it's being pulled apart. Yeah.
And I, I wanna say this real fast. I, I know.
So two things could happen right away in this conversation.
And, and Hailey who does a phenomenal job kinda helping
oversee this project, she even said, Hey,
politics kinda isn't my thing.
I don't even know if I would listen to this episode. Yeah.
But I know a lot. So number one, if that's you,
I would say stay tuned.
I think there's gonna be something here for you.
The second thing I would say, I know we have a lot
of listeners that maybe wouldn't even call themselves
Christian this episode.
We are going to be intentionally focusing on a healthy
Christian perspective Correct.
In the midst of this. And
so if you're like, why are they talking so much?
I would say also just stick with this
because I think it, I think we'd all have to admit like,
what, what we see right now isn't working.
That's right. And so, man, if there was a third way,
if there was another way,
and so just entertain this with us for 25, 30 minutes,
however we are, I think we're gonna, uh,
maybe find, unpack some things.
Yeah. That'll be helpful. Now you just said, uh,
that the divisiveness and,
and we don't know how to dis how
to really love one another work together.
Yeah. If we have different perspectives.
Just for a minute though. And I think it's worth recognizing
in today's world, that's not just when it comes to politics.
No, absolutely not. No, it, it, it it's with everything.
Right. Everything now is me verse you. Yeah.
Um, everything is a fight.
Everything is, uh, um, putting your flag in the ground
and coming out victorious.
Yeah. And that's not supposed to be the end goal
of human flourishing period.
Right. Uh, certainly not supposed
to be the end goal of politics.
And I, and I think that's why there's value in kind
of focusing in on this from a Christian perspective.
'cause I would say, you know, I didn't grow up in church.
I didn't grow up as a Christian. So for,
for our listeners out there, um, I was a part-time Catholic,
uh, for the first 17, 16, 17 years of my life.
Uh, but I wanted the Christian
To be in Louisiana.
Yes. In Louisiana. Part-time Catholic in Louisiana.
Well, well, you may not have known this little side street
here, but Louisiana doesn't have counties.
We have parishes. That's how Catholic Louisiana is. Okay.
We don't have a count. They've divided the state up
into Catholic parishes.
And, and, and always, even though I wasn't one,
I wanted the Christians to be what they said they are.
Yeah. Because if it was true, then everything was different.
Yeah. And, and so that's why I think for us
approaching it from that perspective does have
far reaching implications.
Even if you wouldn't call yourself a follow the way
of Jesus, because we're supposed to be the people, uh,
who know how to do this well in spite of all
of the swirling circumstances around us.
Well, one, in fact, one of Jesus's last prayers,
and I just wanna say this
and do, do not hear any singular sentence
that I say in this podcast.
Or take a sentence of it
and reproduce it somewhere else, please.
And then say, that's what Jason believes. Please.
That's what Leon's believes. 'cause there's gonna, you,
we gotta address some tough things.
But, um, it, one of the last things
that Jesus prayed for on earth was
for the unity of his people.
That's right. John 17. So
That's what Christians should be working towards being the
answer to Jesus' prayer.
And so I would argue, if you see any leader on any side
representing something that, and that, look,
this doesn't mean that there's not moments where you have
to stand up at, pardon me, cough button.
We need that if you need to stand, if you need to, uh,
stand up and be a strong leader.
And there's gonna be some, some opposition.
But man, there's a way to do that in a loving,
unifying, empathetic way.
And if you see a leader that's not doing that, you can't tie
that's the way of Jesus
or that's the way of the church Yeah.
To that person. Yeah.
That's right. And, and I would say it's not even the way
of decent humanity.
Right. Right. Uh,
because at the end of the day, uh, Christian
or not, we should want total flourishing for our society
because we benefit from it too.
Right. Let's just say it completely selfishly. Yeah.
We all benefit when everything in society it's flourishing.
And Right now's it's very much, uh, a different story.
Yeah. And gosh, I hate to keep going back to scripture,
but I mean, you see that in Deuteronomy.
I mean, you see it all throughout scripture.
You see it in Jeremiah. Yep.
If you're in this area where you don't want to be,
he doesn't say grit your teeth until you can get out.
He doesn't say overturn it. He says Marry have children.
That's right. Build houses, plant gardens, build houses.
Live your life in such a way that the city
around you will prosper.
Mm-Hmm. Because in its prosperity, you will find prosperity.
That's exactly right. As as the city goes.
So do you Yeah. Period.
I would, um, I think one of the thing that's good
to recognize, one thing that's helped me is it's possible,
I would even say highly likely,
but to at least allow ourselves to go to the place to
where it's possible that the system, the political system
that we are set up in.
And again, I'm not anti-politics by any stretch.
I think they serve again, I think they serve a
great purpose Yeah.
For our society. But if, I think just being open to the fact
that our system could be set up
to have us spending more energy fighting
with one another than coming to a unifying place.
Any thoughts on that? Well,
I was taught a long time ago to always follow the money.
Follow the money. Yeah.
Um, there's more money in medicine than healthy living.
Yes. There's more money in doctor's bills Yeah.
Than eating vegetables. Yeah.
And there's more money in controversy than in cohesion.
Period. And,
and so, you know, when you think about kind
of the root idols of American society, um, it's mammon.
Right. Uh, and mammon being, uh,
Yeah. Maybe not in the literal
sense, but Yeah.
But, but being in the, the,
what Jesus meant when he said mammon, it was, it was wealth
and power in everything that it affords Right.
In worshiping that it's mammon and it's sex.
And, and so when you, when you look at these kind
of root idols, uh, that, that govern so much of our movies,
our media, the, the way we function,
what's on magazine covers the Met Gala.
If you didn't see that, um, don't go watch it.
We won't put a link to it
Here in this. We will not link
to that. But the, the point I'm making is,
um, controversy
sells Yeah.
And makes money. And
that's why we're reliving 2020 right now.
Yeah. Um, in, in this, uh, current political race
because it was salacious.
And, and unfortunately, if we're not energized by the way
of Jesus, then we're gonna be energized by those things, uh,
and in, in some small way or another.
And so, uh, yes, I believe
that there are segments of our system that are set up, um,
for the flourishing of people.
But I also believe equally counter measured to that,
as you said, uh, that the system is set up
to keep us divided.
Because God forbid, God forbid, these poor folks that I used
to pastor in Appalachia, uh, in severe Tennessee,
where I lived down the street from Dolly Parton,
that's another conversation for another time. Uh,
A little different than Atlanta.
Well, and I was gonna say, not that, not that much,
God forbid, these poor folks from Appalachia connect
with these poor folks in the hood And realize that they are
actually living the same narrative.
And that, that they have been systematically
and strategically over time separated to believe
that their stories are very, very different.
But I'm telling you, as a pastor who pastored in Appalachia
and who pastored in urban Atlanta,
I was facing the exact same issues,
the exact same attitudes, the exact same struggles,
the exact same challenges.
God forbid those people get together.
'cause they would literally be able to,
to rest the power from the powerful, uh, and
and reshape society.
And so we gotta keep those people separated, God forbid,
black folks and white folks get together in a church.
Right? Yeah. Right. Because as long
as we can keep the narrative
that Republicans wanna hurt black people
and Democrats, uh, um, are using them, uh, in order to,
you know, give them programs and keep their votes.
And as long as we can keep that narrative,
then there's no synergy
and there's no possibility to actually see change. Right.
Yeah. So let's ask this question then.
What, what is, what is
the Christian community's role when it comes to politics?
Yeah. Uh, primarily it is to live out the way of Jesus
in a subversive, beautiful, inviting manner.
I'll give you two examples. Um, there's a great book
by Rodney Stark, um,
and we can link to that, uh, I'm sure in the notes,
it is a fat read.
So if you're not a readable or,
or a reader get audible, uh,
I'm not sure if it's on Audible.
Um, but there's one example he shares, um,
that has always struck me.
And, and I've brought this, um, primarily to,
to my friends and family who lean.
Right. Um, I've brought this to them multiple times.
What do you do when you can't count on the political power
to facilitate the life you want to have?
Right? So the, the early Christians, it was Nero
or Traian, like neither one of them were, I mean Right.
Nero Litus garden with Christians on fire.
And, and so there will tough
To get behind that. Tough to
get behind that. Right.
You know, like, this is my platform. Right.
I'm gonna light you up. Uh,
but those of you who survive, you will prosper.
Yeah. Um, but what do you do when,
when you live in a society
where you don't have any political power,
where your vote really doesn't matter at all?
Yeah. You live in such a way that from the bottom up,
it begins to transform society.
So here's one example. Um, Christians, the,
the term burning bridges actually came from, uh,
a massive plague that swept through the early, uh, um,
the early Mesopotamian world.
And they were fleeing the cities
and actually burning the bridges on the way out so
that the sick could not cross over.
Right. Christians were going back into these
plague infested areas and taking care of the sick and dying.
And, and what you find both biblically
and extra biblically is that when Christians live the way
of Jesus empowered by the Holy Spirit,
that society begins to change.
Not because they have power, but
because their influence, their love, their, their mercy.
The way that, that they, uh, seek those on the margins and,
and seek to, to serve them and take care of them.
It, it begins to turn the hearts of the people. Yeah.
That, that's what happens.
Same thing happened in the Old Testament with Daniel.
I'm actually working on a book right now called Among Kings,
uh, how to be a Whole Citizen in a
politically divided World.
And, and the idea of that sprung from reading the Book
of Daniel, where I realized, um, that this man
was taken in exile into a country he did not choose.
Just in case you're listening,
you don't know the Book of Daniel. Yeah. A book in
The Bible. Oh, it's a book in
the Bible. Yeah. Yeah.
You should read it. It's crazy. Stop at chapter six
Before he starts having dreams.
Please stop at chapter six.
But, um, but in the first six chapters you see that, um,
that he serves four different administrations.
Yep. Think about that.
Four different administrations, um,
three different kingdoms,
and none of them were working for the good of his people.
How did he do that? How did he do that
and keep his Christian fidelity?
There's a lesson in that for us.
Um, and, and eventually we see little flex
of heart change even in those political leaders, um, in,
in the Old Testament because of the way Daniel
lived around them.
Right. And exemplified the way of God.
Yeah. You see that and you think, okay,
maybe there is something to that.
And this is why when people ask me, you know,
interpersonally, Hey, what are your thoughts on politics?
Republican party, democratic party?
And it's not that, look, I love America.
I love our country. Um, without a doubt.
I mean, America, America, America love it.
But when it comes down to how much energy should I put,
I mean, at the end of the day, we got 24 hours in a day,
we have way less emotional energy than 24
Hours. Well, and and per our last
time,
we should be sleeping eight of those.
Go ahead. We should be sleeping eight of those.
I'm still failing miserably, uh, at that. I'm doing better.
Come on big. I'm doing better. I know.
I got work to do Hope in real life family.
I want to take a moment and let you know about a resource
that we have for you, for your own personal development,
spiritual enrichment, and really a way for you
to find a bit more hope in real life.
We have a tool for you called the Hope in Real Life app.
It offers things like parenting tips, financial resources,
marriage insights, uh, if you're looking for it,
there's even Bible reading plans in there.
And there's a community
where you can even share prayer requests
and know that someone is praying for you for whatever it is
that you have going on in your life.
It's available right now in the Apple App
Store or in Google Play.
You can search hope in real life in both stores,
or you can use the download link that is in the show notes.
Remember, tomorrow can be better than today
and hope is possible, even in real life, let's
to say we got 16, we got 16 hours,
and we definitely don't have 16 good
hours of emotional energy.
So do you want to, is it more beneficial
for your community, for your state, for your country,
for your church, for your city, for you to invest
a large portion of that time investing in a system
or hoping in a system that ultimately is not going
to get it done, which every hour
or minute that you put into driving that platform is minutes
that you don't have to necessarily live out exactly
what you just talked about.
And so for me, it's really a matter of minutes. Yeah.
Like, where am I going to invest my time?
And to use your words, like if I'm really convicted about
something, am I gonna spend a whole lot of time
chasing my algorithm on social media Mm-Hmm.
And making a bunch of arguments?
Or am I gonna spend my time actually living that out?
And to use your story, to use your metaphor,
going back across where there's no bridges.
That's right. And actually making a difference myself.
That's right. I, I mean, I think you're exactly right.
And, and the perspective, um, I think is
so clear we have a finite amount of time
and to invest our hope,
and I think that was the key word there.
We have to stop hoping.
Yeah. In politics
and political leaders, they come
and they go, they rise and they fall.
The Bible literally says, sorry
for quoting the Bible so much today, guys.
I am a preacher. You have to forgive me.
Um, the Bible literally says, God raises up kings. Yep.
And he tears 'em down. Right.
And, and so every ruler, every leader we have ever had
and ever will have is in a temporary assignment.
Right. And, and so for us to throw our whole hope
and our whole heart, uh,
and all of our energy behind a temporary leader
who will change over, uh,
if not in four years, in eight Yeah.
And that leader will spend the next four
to eight years trying to undo everything that the leader did
that came, like, why would we throw ourselves at that?
Yeah. When instead we can be living in such a way
that people have to ask us for the hope that we have.
Now, I'm not a proponent of total disengagement.
That's not what I'm saying. No, not at all.
Um, that's not what I'm saying at all.
What I am saying is that as you engage in, invest wisely
with your time, uh, and
and realize that your hope doesn't rise
and fall in, in November, we're gonna have a president.
Yep. We're gonna have a new president,
or we're gonna have the same president.
That changes nothing for how I live before then
and how I will live after.
Yeah. I'm gonna love Jesus. I'm gonna serve my church.
I'm gonna love my family. I'm gonna take care of my kids.
I'm gonna invest in human flourishing.
I'm gonna continue to give to compassion.
I'm gonna continue to try to make the world a better place
because at the end of the day, whoever is sitting in
that seat that does not determine how I live my life.
And the day that it does, we kinda already lost
The battle. Yeah.
Let's hit on this
because I know there's some listeners out there
that will say, oh, but it does,
because it could actually change a law
or it could change how our tax dollars are spent.
Mm-Hmm. Golf button.
We, um, I think it's worth recognizing,
and I'm just gonna go here for a minute.
Alright. Let's do, and this is
where somebody takes one sentence
and blows something, uh, out of the, but it's fine.
We gotta deal with it there to pretend
like if you wanna vote one way
or the other, you wanna elevate one party over another.
Great. That's what's the system's intact for.
But to pretend like if
you want to see one candidate move into office
because you live
and believe, which I do too, that abortion is murder.
Yeah. Um, I think it's,
and now look, I've got, I have friends
and family that have had abortions.
Same. And so, so much empathy for
That, but that doesn't make it not what
It is. It doesn't make it not
what it is,
but to pretend like if you vote just for that,
and that's what you stake your life
and to pretend like everything in
that political party perfectly matches up.
I'm not saying with your personal preferences,
because it might perfect,
It's with the way of Jesus, but
But does it perfectly match up with the way of Jesus?
Come on. Yeah. We, we gotta be smarter than that. Yeah.
Or to say No, no, no, no.
Um, I actually think, I believe
that the Democratic Party does a better job of caring
for the poor, which is something that we're called to do
through scripture, which
Is that's the soundbite that they're gonna take. Which
It is. That's right. They're gonna take,
yeah.
I blown up. I'm gonna get
Blown. Yeah. Jason Gore said
he believes the Democratic party.
Yeah. So, so do, do what,
you may take the whole thing in context,
but then to pretend, um, like everything that
that political party does fully represents the way of Jesus
is, is a stretch at best.
Well, it it is. It's not even being honest. Right.
That's the thing. It's not being honest. Yeah.
And, and the hard part in many of these conversations
for me, uh,
because we have such a diverse church,
we have such a diverse church.
And, and so going back to Covid, I'll come right back
when, and
It, look, I'm gonna go soft here for a minute.
Okay. Yeah. I'm not saying that everybody
that's a Democrat is pro-abortion.
I'm not saying that no one who's
a Republican cares for the poor. That's not what
I'm saying. Well, and and that's not
going soft. That's true. Right.
Because I know what are called Blue dog Democrats
that are anti-abortion.
Yep. And I know Republicans that are deeply concerned
for the poor and for our fiscal policies concerning them.
Yep. So that, that's just rea Right.
And those are throwbacks right.
From the seventies and eighties that we're talking about.
But here's, here's what's really interesting though.
How many of those are actually gonna have an
opportunity to run for president? Well,
They're not. Right. Well,
they're not. Right. Can we come back to that?
Yes. Can we put a pin in that and come back to that? Yeah.
I definitely wanna come back to that.
They're not, um, but,
but what I was gonna say is,
the challenge in this conversation that I've had many,
many times, and I'll go back to Covid, is when the no,
my right leaning family and friends, and,
and, uh, again, I'll go here,
like my in-laws are staunch Trump supporters,
staunch election deniers, whole thing.
Yeah. It was stolen.
Like he, they're, I don't care if he gets indicted,
we're still voting for him.
Like that's where they are. And I love them.
And, and most of the time we can have decent dialogue.
And I have friends who are staunch Democrats.
All Republicans are evil and
and they don't care about people.
And yes, I hate abortion,
but we've got these 17 other issues.
And, and the struggle that I've had going back again
to Covid, is when the government mandated you have
to wear masks if you're gonna gather other, my
Republican friends stopped coming to our church,
and my in-laws said, well, we're not gonna do that.
And I thought to myself, well,
I thought we were supposed to obey the government.
Like y'all were like, well,
the government said I can have my guns.
And the government said, you know, so, but now we're not.
And then when the government stopped mandating
masks, we pulled the mask.
Right. And many
of my left-leaning friends,
stop coming to church. You don't
Care about people Anymore. You don't
care about people. You don't care if people die.
You don't care if people die. And I'm like,
but I thought we were supposed to
follow what the government said.
Right. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah.
And, and so in both cases, I thought we were supposed
to follow what the government said.
Right. Well, only when it's convenient to what I want. Yeah.
And, and no one is willing to be honest.
And the few people who are willing to be honest,
I'll go back to what we put a pen in.
They're never gonna get a shot. Yeah.
Because they don't represent the narrative
that is being pitched.
In fact, um, most of you probably don't know this about me.
So new layers to layouts today.
Um, I did a semester in law school,
I have a master's degree in criminal justice, uh,
with a focus on case law
because I really believed that my future was
to practice law. Um, that
Fun fact is more masculine than walking through botanical
Gardens. Just for the
record, you know, um, misogyny is,
is not in in 2024.
That's fair. Whole nother episode. You're right.
Um, but I, I, um,
I really believe that was my future.
Uh, and so I went down
that path I thought I was gonna practice law in
until I was 35.
And this was my whole plan.
So this tells you how crazy my brain is, uh, from a child.
I was gonna practice law until I was 35
that I was gonna enter politics,
and I was gonna run for president at 45.
And that is how I was gonna change the world.
And I had a mentor. You got about
A week till You're 45.
I know. Well, I could, I think I could win,
but that's, I,
I think 10 years from now there might be a shot,
but that's, uh, that's a different conversation too.
But I think I can win. Um, but I had a mentor of mine,
and this is why I would never do it.
He was in politics
and he said, Leon, um,
if you're gonna go into this arena,
you can compromise some of her values
and maybe get something done.
You can compromise all
of your values talking about my Christian values.
Right. All of your values.
And definitely get something though, not everything done.
Or you can refuse to compromise and get nothing done.
And that was a turning point for me
because I realize
that the system is actually no longer set up for ideas.
It's set up for tribes.
And if you disagree with part of parts
of the tribe that you're a part of,
whether you have no voice and, and you have no influence
and you have no authority, uh,
and so there's actually not room for,
for people who are quote unquote blue dog Democrats
to actually move the needle.
Right. And there's not room for Republicans, uh,
who are concerned about the way we spend our money
on the military versus education, um, to move the needle in.
In fact, last thing I'll say, I'll be your cough button.
Um, um, people forget this,
but, uh, but I you have a solid memory.
So I suspect you'll remember this.
In 2008 when Barack Hussein Obama was running
for president, Hillary Clinton eviscerated him,
do you remember why she said he was not a real democrat?
Hmm. He's not a real democrat
because Obama at that time was a church man.
Yeah. And vocally, vocally pro traditional marriage
and vocally anti-abortion
running as a Democrat.
And some magical confluence of things happened
that allowed him to win that election.
And, and I actually, I have a buddy who's a, um,
20 plus year political science professor.
Here's what he said about Obama. He said Obama turned one,
he was a 1980s moderate Republican in his fiscal spending,
in his war policy in how he handled terrorism.
He said that was all very Republican of him.
But what happened? Well, the world shifted. Okay.
Um, we, he knew rather
that he was not going to get reelected
unless he appealed to the part of his party
that he formally disagreed.
Right. And so now all of a sudden he's pro
same-sex marriage, and all of a sudden he's pro
and I'll use their language, women's reproductive rights,
all of a sudden he shifted, he's compromised.
Right. What were values so that he can stay in office.
And in his mind, in his mind, well,
I know I'm compromising on these things,
but it's so I can get these other things done.
Yeah. And that's how the game is rigged again. Yeah.
That's how it's played. And,
and so I remind people all the time, you forget
that Hillary Clinton destroyed him in debates,
in articles, in interviews.
And her whole platform was he's not a real democrat. Right.
Because this is what Democrats believe.
Democrats believe in women's reproductive rights.
Democrats believe that love is love and you can love anyone,
and he doesn't believe those things.
Yeah. So he's not a real Democrat.
And and here's what's interesting
as if being a real Democrat
or a real Republican is the end all goal
For us. Well, and that
might be a part two.
I mean, I'm sitting, I mean, I'm sitting here thinking,
because at the end of the day, yes, we remember
who Barack Obama is.
We remember who Hillary Clinton is right now.
But, and you might be able to do this,
but I would even challenge for others.
Can you name every president
of the United States I've ever had? No, no.
Absolutely Not. There's not one listener
that can hear my voice right now
that doesn't know who Jesus is.
That's right. And the reason why is
because there is a third way.
Yes. There is a better way. Yes.
That seems like they could never get elected.
And so that's what I hope our listeners get out
of this episode is like, Hey,
I'm not saying don't be a Republican.
I'm not saying being a Democrat.
I'm just saying that at the end of the day,
no political party has your best interest in mind.
No political party really has the end all agenda
of you experiencing the abundant life that you were created
to live other than Jesus.
And so, if we're really going
to find hope in this election season,
and gosh, even so much more in our life, I hope, I pray
that our listeners would remember.
Okay. Or maybe come to at least tip their hat
to maybe there is a better way
that's bigger than this whole political thing,
and then it's in the way of Jesus. Well,
And it's, and it's gotta be.
It's gotta be Because again, if, if, if you're listening
and you're followed the way of Jesus, well, the Bible says
that this is not your home.
Yeah. The Bible says
that you are a citizen of another place.
Yeah. The Bible literally says
that Jesus' kingdom is not a kingdom of this world.
Yeah. And, and that we are simply passing.
I can go on and on and on and on.
There's a, there's a beautiful thing that's coming where,
where heaven is gonna kiss earth.
Right? Yeah. And, and that's Revelation 21.
Heaven's gonna kiss Earth. We're gonna have this
brand new reality.
This, this, this new heaven's, this new earth,
this sin free thing that is coming.
No political leader is gonna get us there. Yeah.
No political party is going to get us there.
That is not where our hope is.
And it can't be because it's going to fail.
And that's where your frustration is. Yeah.
Can I say that that bluntly? I think so.
Your, your frustration right now, listener, is
through multiple or even singular election cycles.
You hoped that this person would be
what you believed they would be,
and it turned out that they weren't.
Yeah. And they couldn't get
as much done as you thought they could.
And so now you hope for the next one. Yeah.
The next one's not gonna be able to do it either.
Only Jesus, and, and, and I I'll finish with this and,
and be done unless you ask me some more questions.
But I, I tell all our people all the time, stop looking
at the elephant and the donkey.
Yeah. And follow the lamb. Yeah. Follow the lamb.
And that will lead you
to the abundant life that God promised.
Yeah. Hope in real life family.
We just want to take a moment
and let you know about a resource that is available to you.
I know a lot of our listeners aren't necessarily active in a
church, might not even be a Christian.
We are still thankful that you're spending time with us.
However, we do get asked regularly,
how can we find out more about your church
or even just about this Jesus guy.
And so if that is you, I want you to know you can tune in
to get Hope tv.
We have live services on Saturday, 4:15 PM and 6:00 PM
or on Sunday at 9:30 AM
or 11:15 AM Those are Eastern standard times.
If you can't tune in during those times,
we will drop our YouTube link as well
as our podcast link down in the show notes.
We would love to have you join in with us.
Let's keep sharing some hope.
My last question was, how can communities come together
to foster hope during this election season?
I think we'll end there. It is. I think we'll into that.
I wanna be in, in all this. I wanna be clear.
We're not talking about neither one of us.
I, I believe would say so, so pull out of, of being engaged
with politics at all.
I would say you, I think you should vote. Yeah.
I think you should vote. Yeah. You have an active
responsibility as a citizen.
But let's just recognize how it can shape us
and actually pull back from our hope
or lead us to putting our hope into the wrong thing. Yeah.
And stop watching the 24 hour new song. There you
Go.
All right. Tell me one more time next summer,
you've got a book coming out.
Yes. What, what, what's your working title
Among kings?
Among Kings Subtitle, how
to Be a Whole Citizen in a Politically Divided World.
And so we'll be talking about that, I'm sure again,
and I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with another couple
of these conversations as we get
closer to the election time.
Yeah. Leon, thank you so much for being here.
As always, think we're Thanks for having me, buddy.
I think gonna get you outta here
and go get you some barbecue.
Oh, beef ribs away.
Hope in our life. Family. Thank you for tuning in.
Listen, uh, do the world a favor. Alright.
Engage this content, but share it.
Other people need to experience and understand.
There is a bigger hope out there than just what's being
thrown at us by the news.
Take an opportunity, share this with other people.
You never know how much
of a difference it can actually make in someone's life.
Love you guys. See you on the next episode.
Let's keep sharing hope. Thanks for tuning into this episode
of The Hope in Real Life podcast.
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