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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Ben: So what I really enjoy
about this podcast is how often
I'll go into movies blind.
One of the giant risks of this podcast
is I will often go into movies blind.
So yeah, I think we're all very
grateful that this is a movie we're
covering with a guest who is uh, walking
into the fire with eyes wide open,
I
Tomi: Hmm.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: you.
invited this into your life.
Tomi: Oh, yeah.
Now this one's been around in my life
for a few years and like I've wanted to
even just hear a podcast Covered this
like since before I started podcasting.
I even almost once commissioned the
small beans podcast to cover this
film But when you know, I was right
to save my money just had to wait
a couple years and I'll be back
Cover podcasts on my own, goddammit.
Ben: Yeah, well, now Progressively
Horrified is here to the rescue.
Podcasters, the true heroes?
Tomi: Hmm.
Emily: We're, we're trying.
We're doing our best.
Jeremy: Good evening, and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast
where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.
Tonight, we're talking about the
Sam Levinson high school hyper
violence film Assassination Nation.
I am your host, Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight, I have a
panel of cinephiles and cinebites.
First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire
binary, my co host Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: I'm gonna go right ahead and
say More movies with trans women
dual wielding pistols, please.
Emily: Yes.
Ben: Also, wait, is Sam Levinson
the literal euphoria guy?
Okay, cause half
of my notes watching this movie
were just going, Is this what
watching euphoria feels like?
And a whole, uh, okay.
Jeremy: Yeah, literally, I, it was
one of those things that I read
in the IMDb just before I started
watching it and I was like, oh, okay.
I know what I'm about to watch now.
Ben: you, if you can't see me
right now my brain is just like,
actually like recalibrating,
Emily: Yeah.
Ha ha
Jeremy: is all coming together here.
Uh, and the cinnamon roll of
Cenobites, our co host, Emily Martin.
Emily, how are you tonight?
Emily: This is a good movie.
This is a rough one, y'all.
Uh, yeah.
I had to recalibrate a little bit after
watching this, but I'm really glad I did.
Jeremy: Had to go take a walk,
skip some stones off a pond,
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: really think about things.
Emily: I really,
Ben: movie's fucking Dr.
Jekyll, Mr.
Hyde attitude towards teenage girl
sexualization is making a lot more
sense now, I'll tell you that.
Jeremy: Yeah.
And, uh, our guest tonight, host of
the Transcending Comics and Giant
Size Violence podcast, and co creator
of When We Transform, Tomi Trembath.
Tomi, welcome to Progressively Horrified.
Tomi: Hey everyone, yeah,
I'm glad to be here.
Thank you for having me and for
uh, You Suffering through an often
hard to watch movie, but still
one of my favorites nonetheless.
Emily: It's a fantastic movie,
Jeremy: Joel McHale is leaning hard
into his murder dad phase of his career.
I don't know, how many of you all
have seen It's a Wonderful Knife.
in which he also is the murder dad.
Tomi: yeah, my
Ben: Surprise.
Joel McHale.
Tomi: yeah, my first thought seeing this
was like, wow, these paintball episodes of
Community are really getting out of hand.
Ben: There was definitely a brief
moment where I was hoping Joe McHale
was the red herring and Lily was really
texting the mom of the kid she babysat.
Emily: I don't know how
about how I feel about
Ben: it would have messed up all
of the themes, but I don't know.
Jeremy: Yeah, that would have, uh,
would have kind of toasted some of
the themes in this movie, because this
Ben: would have, it would not have worked.
Jeremy: on themes and violence.
Those are the two things
this movie is very heavy on.
Emily: It's just heavy.
Jeremy: yeah,
Emily: just say that.
Jeremy: As I mentioned, like,
when we jumped in, it is written
and directed by Sam Levinson,
who is, yes, the Euphoria guy.
He is uh, sort of noted for
teens having sex, but also like
all the teenage crosstalk in it.
I'm just like, I'm getting like
half of what people are saying.
It's like, I'm too old for this,
for the dialogue in this movie.
Ben: So here's the inherent dilemma I
find with this movie, is that watching
it I absolutely felt old, but when it
came out I was still in my late 20s,
which was the age of the average actor
playing a teenager in this movie.
What do I do with that?
Emily: You know,
just apply your experience.
Ben: There's a 27 year old watching other
27 year olds pretend to be 16 year olds.
Emily: yeah, I have a lot of
emotions about this movie.
A lot of thoughts and feelings.
Jeremy: this, this movie will
have, will cause you to have a lot
of thoughts and feelings, not the
least of which come from the cast.
We do have, uh, Odessa Young and Hari
Nef there's four girls on all the
covers and four girls that are sort
of like main cast, theoretically,
but Odessa Young and Hari Nef are
the only ones who have stories.
The other two are also there.
Not that, like, that's a problem, but
like, what he is attempting to depict
here I think as far as the suburb
is, is not somewhere he's ever been.
Ben: I might be judging it by overly
liberal New England, you know, suburbs.
And by liberal suburb, I mean
clintonite, neoliberal, like social
liberal, fiscally conservative, which
Tomi: I don't know, I'm from small
town Midwest, like, graduating
class of 200 and Graduating early
2010s and this totally par for the
course for small town Midwest vibes.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: totally.
Granted, I'm bringing my
own baggage and background.
Emily: that is one of the big
talking points of the movie is the
extremity of these uh, reactions and
Ben: The dad's harder though, because
it's literally the guy from Stranger
Things playing the same character.
Emily: yeah,
Tomi: he's aware that he's not
in Stranger Things right now.
Emily: yeah.
Yeah.
Jeremy: It's tough for me
because I, do live in the South.
I grew up in a town, not unlike
this, except smaller and poorer.
And it's, the question for me is sort
of like, there's no church in this town.
Everybody is very like, Has a
lot of like values based ideals
that are very centered in like
theoretical Protestant Christianity.
But there's nobody ever goes to a church.
And I, I don't know, it, that
just seems a little weird to me.
Especially for Lily's parents who have
enough of an emphasis on, values and, and
their kid, I don't know, not having sex,
that they are literally drag her out of
the house and leave her in the front yard.
Ben: Oh, that they don't
fucking get their comeuppance.
Emily: Yeah,
Tomi: knowing what's on the parents
phones, the principal's phones, like, I
don't think I want to find out what's on
the priest or pastor of this town's phone.
Jeremy: yeah.
Emily: Yeah.
This is already a disaster.
Jeremy: It's sort of interesting.
There's a lot of movies in this movie
and some of them we never actually
get to, and some of them never finish.
You know, at some point it just, at
the point that it becomes like, that,
you know, she gets ratted out for this
thing that she didn't do and everybody
thinks that she is the one that's
getting the hacking, it shifts into
the horror mode and the rest of that
stuff just kind of gets left behind.
Ben: this is where you fucking absolutely
rocked me, because there's so much
of this movie that felt rather like
ethereal, vibes like, shifting around.
and it was so much of what made me
wonder about this movie, and now I
know it's just Sam Levinson doing
euphoria shit, and I'm like, ow,
it's horror euphoria.
Emily: looking at this, I
see my 14-year-old experience
with natural born killers.
Although with this, the message is right
up in front, and I kind of love that
because this is a movie about teens.
It discusses teens.
And I think it's fine that it has,
it's, it's not trying to be subtle at
Ben: movie enters my fuck subtlety
hall of fame, and you know that I
will always legitimately and sincerely
applaud a movie that tells subtlety
to go fuck itself, and just hammers
home its themes, cause god bless.
Tomi: And as far as having those themes
up front, I think that might be Kind of
played to Jeremy's point on the lack of a
church depicted in this, because I don't
think this movie wants to be a commentary
on religion or on, like, the alt right
presence in, like, the American church.
And I do feel like that's kind of where
it would automatically steer to if they
made a church a main centerpiece of
this or like that makes the church the
scapegoat of all these inherently terrible
feelings that are just under the surface.
Ben: This might be me too much, you
know, getting my, the Atlantic Op Ed
armchair writer on but I wonder if,
again, this is 2018, it's very 2018,
This would have premiered at Sundance
before, like, the 2018 midterms even.
It is very much in reaction to Trumpism,
and I wonder if the lack of a church
reflects how, despite the role and
prominence of the evangelical community
within Trump's Whatchamacallit base, Trump
himself exudes a certain secularism, that
he himself is not, like, religious at all.
I wonder if just the lack of church
reflects that aspect of him that
he uses religion as convenience
but it's not he hasn't used it
the way other like theocratic
dictators around the world have used
Emily: Yeah, it's all, it's symbolism.
Like, it's all just labels that he puts on
Ben: yeah with 2018, we're seeing more,
again, social media, internet, 4chan, if
there is a religion, it is like, kekism,
Emily: Oh, techism!
I thought you said kekism
Ben: I know, I did say,
I did say kekism, I did
say kekism, like, that religion of
just memes and hatred and violence,
Emily: yes, okay.
no, no, no, no, no,
Ben: I'm done, I'll be funnier
for the rest of the episode
now, I promise, I know my place.
Emily: it's important because, like,
this is one of those things where
they very deliberately say things
and they choose what to show, right?
So, in this particular cartoon hyper
violent and hyper sexual as it is,
there is a lot of very specific choice
being made of what we are talking
about in terms of this community.
Salem, haha, get it?
Yeah, when I saw that at the very top
of the movie, I was like, alright,
I see what you did there, movie.
Okay, I see you.
Ben: Question.
Does Sam Levinson know about the witch
trial or did he just watch Hocus Pocus?
Emily: I'm sure he's
aware of the zeitgeist.
Ben: If you asked Sam Levinson to
describe the Salem Witch trials,
how close to an Ally McBeal
episode do you think it would be?
Emily: I've never actually seen an
episode of Ally McBeal, so I'm free.
Ben: Imagine a generic legal drama.
Emily: I can.
Jeremy: I mean, I do believe the
words amok, amok, amok would
show up in there at some point.
Emily: Yes.
I'm surprised they didn't
show up in this film.
Ben: did you see the Futurama episode
where they have to make the fake Ali Mc
Emily: yes.
Yes.
That is about the amount of
Ally McBeal that I've seen.
Ben: is like the show they
parodied in the Futurama episode.
Emily: Yeah.
Also she, she like was really skinny
and a lot of people, you know, there
was some image standards thing about
Ben: Oh my god, the 90s to early
2000 fuckin body standards?
Insane.
We made an entire fuckin franchise about,
like, look how fat Renee Zellweger is.
Emily: and, uh, you know, it's
heroin and we talked about that,
but this isn't Requiem for a Dream.
That's a different hard
time that we, that shall
Jeremy: Well, why don't you go ahead and
tell us what happens in this movie, Emily?
Ben: What a fuckin doubleheader
that would be, requiem for a
Dream and Bridget Jones diary.
Emily: I'm gonna, I'm gonna LR my brain
Ben: recap, recap.
Emily: later.
Okay, so, all right, it's the movie.
. I don't know if we talked about the writer
yet, but okay, so we start from the top.
So you might want to know how
Lily Coulson, 18 years old,
and her friends Bex, Em, and
Sarah got into this situation.
Well, she'll tell you.
Also, she has the wherewithal to list
the content warnings and Patriotic colors
at the very top of this film, which is
very considerate, and I appreciate that.
Ben: I love that.
I love the trigger warning
in the, in the film.
Jeremy: I also love that the beginning
of this movie is a trailer for the movie.
It's like, here's all the shit
that's gonna happen in this movie.
Emily: I feel like this is sort of like if
American History X Started not from the,
Nazi's point of view this time, but like,
you know, record scratch freeze frame.
So, you might want to know how
I got into this hate crime.
Well, I'll tell you.
Ben: Well, this feels like
where Sam Levinson definitely
does know his young audience.
He's like, look, even if they have
bought the tickets and are sitting
down in the theater, we still have
to fucking fight for their attention.
Emily: oh yeah, so it's a normal
suburb of Salem, as we have
said, for normal teenage girls.
Are in the throes of an
intricate, hormonally intense
network of social media drama.
There's a lot of people, baby
Bill ScarsgĆĀ„rd, is there.
That's how you say his name.
in the midst of this, a sex scandal is
revealed involving the town's conservative
mayor via a mysterious hacker.
More news at 11.
There's a party full of
teenage experimentation.
Bex is excited to hook up with her crush.
He wants to keep their relationship
a secret because she is trans.
Then they talk about Casey Anthony.
So just to give you an idea of how,
like, just the wild ride we got here.
So, meanwhile, Lily, who has been doing a
lot of sexting is confronted by this her
principal about sexually explicit artwork.
Jeremy: Principal Coleman Domingo.
Emily: Yes, this is our Coleman Domingo.
He's actually pretty cool
about it, but he's like, It's
true, but you shouldn't say it.
It's high school.
Sorry.
she really does understand.
It's another good talking
point for the movie.
Take notes for your homework.
She's a very sexually active person, and
she has had a lot of experience, and she
really does understand how media works.
But, emotions being what
they are, it's complicated.
Meanwhile, News at 11, this just
in, the mayor has died by suicide in
front of the uh, crowded conference,
also known as the Shame atorium.
We're not gonna talk about the live
footage of this, but it will go viral,
uh, as well as all the sex photos.
And, uh, the teens react.
Ben: this one I have to say is
Especially, uh, upsetting in that
there was, like, a very similar
case of, like, a mayor in Alabama
who, Bubba Copeland, uh, that seemed
to be, like, a much more tragic case
in that he did not espouse any kind of
anti queer or anti trans views, but,
It was an interesting case where I
totally understood where their movie
was going with its cathartic, Hey,
a terrible person got theirs, but it
just reflected so closely a real life,
much more tragic version of it that
I understood what the movie was going
for, but has aged a little strangely
thanks to reality and that tragedy.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: I think that's gonna be true
of almost everything that happens
in this movie, unfortunately.
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: Reality keeps
on making shit weird.
Tomi: yeah, y'all mind if I
interject the personal part of
this movie of like, yeah, that
Ben: 100%,
Emily: please,
Tomi: so I discovered this movie before
I realized it was trans and dang it,
something about it just really resonated
with me and like the most terrifying way.
And now I watch it years later.
I'm like, Oh, cause this is like
all the worst case scenario of
a trans person, either, in the
closet or out in open about it.
And, like, here I am, someone not even
aware they're trans, and I see this
movie about someone's cross dressing
photos getting leaked online and it
driving them to commit to to unalive
themselves in front of a crowd.
And I really kind of took that to
heart at that moment of like, Well,
if pictures of me cross dressing get
leaked online, I want to make sure
I'm not surrounded by people that
make me want to do the same thing.
And like, this did kind of help course
correct my direction in life, and
I then made a point of surrounding
myself with people who, if or when
pictures of me in drag or something,
or lingerie got leaked online, they'd
be like, Yeah, that checks out.
Anyway,
Emily: Yeah.
Tomi: turns out that meant surrounding
myself with a lot of really cool queer
and trans people, who were then also
really cool when I found out I was trans,
so, the movie really helped me out.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: yourself with the kind of
people who when your blackmail
material leak, respond with, yeah,
I've seen their Christmas card.
Tomi: Ha ha ha ha!
Ben: with that scene in particular, it
feels very incredibly intentional that
I feel like the movie then chooses to
use Bex as its mouthpiece for telling
the audience how we should feel about.
This?
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: that again, a person unalive
themselves after photos of
their cross dressing appeared.
With, for all the ways that it is
loaded, the movie then almost goes out
of its way to have a trans woman say,
nah, he is a piece of shit, it's okay
for you to feel okay about that one.
Like, don't be traumatized by that
very traumatizing thing we just did,
which, unfortunately, history can't
quite overcome or no, can't overcome
history, but it does feel very telling
that the movie was like, is almost
going out of its way of being like, Hey,
this is not our trans representation.
This is our trans representation,
and she's gonna tell you how to
feel about what you just saw.
Emily: Yeah.
I have a lot of emotions about that
character and there are incredible
things done with that character
that I have not seen in a film yet.
especially a film as preachy as this one,
but, you know, which I'm like preach, but
Ben: Flowers for fucking
days to Hari Nef for
movie.
Emily: yes.
And, you know, and thank you for sharing
that story with us, Tomi, because
that's like, it's really important.
And I think it's also important because
this movie the writer, and director
of Sam Levinson, made a point to
say that the villain in the movie,
this is not about vilifying social
media, because media is important and
media is how we connect with people.
And, we wouldn't be able to
surround ourselves with the people
that would support us if not for
media, social or otherwise, right?
Like, this is how we communicate, across
Ben: that was well Executed.
I feel like this movie did not villainize
social media what it villainized
was malicious hacks and people's
Exploitation and use of that material.
Like, how often we've seen, people be
the victims of blackmail and cybercrime,
and we are so much angrier at the victims
than the people doing the cybercrime.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, I think it's, fascinating
to me that I feel like the driving force,
the driving villainous force in this movie
isn't even necessarily the hacks, it isn't
the social media, it's the people who,
in seeing the hacks, see something that
they hate or are uncomfortable with about
themselves, and so react violently towards
the people who are, In this case, victims
of this hacking which is, vastly what
is, is going on throughout this movie.
Emily: Yeah, Sam Levinson did say he's
like, it's not about social media.
It's about a lack of empathy, which
I think comes across pretty well.
So anyway,
Ben: hugely.
Emily: back into this movie, uh,
apparently the principal has now had all
of his personal data go viral, including
his porn search history and his photos
of his 5 year old daughter in the bath.
So now everyone thinks, yeah.
He's a pedophile.
Ben: This is really the part of the
movie that felt a really black mirror.
Tomi: Yeah, that's how I describe this
movie, is like, okay, it's like Black
Mirror meets Euphoria, I did not know this
was from the creator of Euphoria, meets
Ben: Again, in my notes, it's just me
literally writing, is this euphoria?
Emily: Apparently I have to see Euphoria.
I'm sorry.
I, I, I didn't do my
Ben: yeah, like, this feels, like, the
absurdism of, like, pictures of your
toddler daughter, like, you're a child
molester, like, playing with bath time,
and, again, that lack of empathy, this
is where I, I legitimately love the
shamatorium, that you never see the faces
of the people, that it is just this, It
is this hallway and this room that is
both impossibly full of dark shadows,
and yet the light is on you is glaring.
Emily: a
minute.
Ben: there's no person to talk to,
there's no conversation to be had,
it's just, societal shame incarnated.
Jeremy: the internet in person.
Ben: And I thought it worked.
So well in the, especially like the brief
Coleman Domingo Black Mirror episode.
Emily: Yeah.
I mean, when I first saw the shamatorium,
I almost thought it was actually symbolic.
Like I didn't think it was
actually happening and, but
then, you know, went viral.
So I was like, okay, so that was a
real thing that happened in the film.
Anyway, so the principle
is dealing with that.
TLDR, he doesn't unalive himself
Tomi: Big fan of that, by the way.
Jeremy: He also refuses to
resign.
Emily: yeah.
Ben: Yeah.
As far as we know, he ends
the movie still with his job.
Emily: Yeah meanwhile, Lily has a
family discussion with her totally
cool parents and brother who absolutely
shut her down because she's a teenager
and what the fuck does she know
about the world, in quotation marks.
And, she has a very good point
about how nudity isn't inherently
sexual, it's what you bring to it.
You know, and I think this is also
important because half the movie she
has been wearing little short shorts.
Ben: She's been drawing,
like, very sexual art.
Emily: Yeah, so she's, wearing little
clothes that, would definitely not
be allowed at a lot of high schools
in the high school dress codes, which
I think is, is an important point
about what she's talking about there.
after that, the spooky hacker, Er0str4tus
who is behind the recent doxing events
is now threatening Lily on Tumblr.
Um, remember Tumblr?
Lily tries to call their bluff
by tracking their IP address.
Good for her.
Good.
And then they try to activate her webcam.
It's terrifying.
And then she talks to
her buddies about that.
And then they talk
Ben: That is terrifying and
gave me big host flashbacks.
Emily: Yeah.
I'm looking at the little green, like, the
scary green light on my camera right now.
I'm like Oh, yeah, no, Jeremy's recording.
Okay, we're
Tomi: I was so mad at Lily for not just
shutting off her laptop right there.
Like two huge people have just been
hacked and you're like, ah, like she
literally tells them to suck her dick.
Emily: Oh, oh, yeah.
Yeah, instead of like waiting
for him to activate the
Tomi: yeah.
Cover your camera.
Maybe turn off your wifi connection.
Get ExpressVPN.
This podcast is brought
to you by ExpressVPN.
Emily: just get a VPN.
Ben: her brother clearly knew ExpressVPN,
because like she tracked the IP to Russia.
Emily: Yeah, the principal
confronts the shamatorium and
he tries to defend himself.
He does not resign people
property and assault him.
And again, this is all of these
horrible things happening are fodder
for social media, just events people
are watching and, Discussing and
doing their best to analyze what's
going on and figure out what's going
on with their lives as teenagers.
And so we're at a party where this is
happening and, they're trying to solve the
mystery, but a bunch of dudes hijack the
conversation like they do with discussions
of their quote unquote sexual prowess.
Lily's boyfriend, Mark, who is the
SkarsgĆĀ„rd, Lily mentions that Mark
has not gone down on her and then Mark
immediately starts slut shaming her,
Ben: The only thing I can say in
defense of Mark is, Imagine someone's
going down on you, And you look down,
and just those fuckin sky SKY EYES ARE
LOOKIN AT YA FROM BETWEEN YOUR LEGS.
OF
Emily: love you guys, however,
Jeremy: Just like a
sewer grate down there.
Anyway,
Emily: I'm just a little upset.
Fuck.
Tomi: You know that blood
bathroom thing he pulled on Bev?
Where do you think he learned that?
Emily: Yeah, so period selfies.
Tomi: Yeah.
Emily: Anyway, yeah, he's mad, he gets
mad and, and slut shames her when,
cause she, oh my gosh, she talked about
her sex life with her girlfriends.
but also, we find out that the
heart smiley face daddy that she's
been sexting is in fact, as we have
suspected, an older man with a family,
and he's their next door neighbor.
Ben: The only reason I thought Joel
McHale might have been a red herring
was because it seemed like the movie
was teasing it out as a mystery, but
also doing nothing to dissuade me
from thinking it wasn't Joel McHale.
Emily: Yeah, so that's rough.
now the police are on the scene and
they interrogate a high school nerd
that possesses an exponential amount of
chutzpah compared to any of the fuckboys.
That we've seen so far because he
basically threatens them because he's
like, you better watch out and, uh, etc.
Jeremy: does not go great for him.
Emily: yo, well, yeah, so, but he's
just like, oh, you might be hacked.
And then what?
They get hacked immediately.
So, half the town has now had
all of their shit put on blast.
Including a heart face, smiley
face daddy, whose name is Nick.
And unfortunately, his data includes
all of the selfies that Lily sent him.
They don't have her face, but they
have easily traceable information
all over everywhere else.
Lily is freaking out and she talks to
Bex, and Bex is like, girl, that dude's
a predator, anyway, but teens also
get ha hacked, so we know that this is
not a social justice vigilante hacker.
and now the town goes absolutely bonkers.
Venge violence and hate crimes ensue.
Mark assaults Lily in order
to reveal her as the infamous
subject of Nick's hacked photos.
and he doxxes,
yeah, yeah, he assaults, yeah,
it's very, it's just a group of
them, him and his, his friends.
Tomi: That's usually the moment
I have to look to the other
person in the room and be like, I
promise this has a happy ending.
Or at least it's got a glorious
ending that like, makes this
movie rewatchable for me.
Ben: yeah, Also, I'm still thinking about
the mayor death and how they handled it,
and Bex does have a line that did stick
with me, and it was like, He wouldn't
mourn my death, so why should I mourn his?
Emily: Yeah, I wrote that one down.
I didn't mention
Ben: far as moral standards
go, I don't know, I'm having
trouble arguing with that line.
Emily: Yeah.
Tomi: On Bex, in that note, like, that
moment with her and Lily, like, having
the under the covers conversation is
like, Such a beautifully intimate moment
that they captured on film so well.
Like, that sticks out to me every time.
Emily: Yeah, that
Ben: Oh, I am big into
like, Lily Beck shipping.
When they introduce, they fucking
kiss on the lips when they first meet!
Emily: I love that.
I love
Ben: Just kiss your homies on the lips!
I love that message of the movie.
Jeremy: this is also the point of the
movie where they become very definitely
the main characters because the other
two sort of fade into the background
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: until somebody yells out,
We got the last name sisters!
Emily: Yeah.
Em and Sarah, like, what we know
about Em is that she likes movies.
What we know about
Sarah is she likes weed.
And, I wish I knew
Ben: It feels like there's four
of them because, like, they needed
four people to fill out the poster.
Emily: We needed to like
all of the do all the
Ben: It is Lillian Bex's movie.
Emily: And bless them.
Lily is, assaulted and battered and doxxed
by her once boyfriend by the time she
comes home from school, she is an internet
celebrity and her parents want to talk.
They blame her for being targeted
by a predator and assault her
and throw her out of the house.
she is harassed and assaulted in
public by dudes on the street.
One of them chases her and she
hits him in the face with a shovel.
Tomi: my god, that moment.
Like,
Ben: who has been followed out of queer
bars by someone in their car, Oof, that's
always a rough moment to watch in film.
Tomi: always bring a shovel, folks.
Ben: honestly, killing somebody
with a shovel, one of the top five
most badass ways to kill somebody.
Aw, shovel murders, aw,
if you're gonna do it.
Emily: fam, palm heel.
just like in Star Trek, right
to the bridge of the nose.
Will stop most people,
unless they're on PCP,
Ben: I'm just saying, shovels, how
often is the murder weapon and the
corpse disposal method the same tool?
That's efficiency right
there, folks.
That's a two for one deal, not unless
you have a big ass pile of leaves.
Jeremy: And you're trying
to kill a clown, you know,
Emily: Flamethrowers also work,
but, they're a little bit, they're
less common for gardening utensils.
Anyway one week later,
Sparkle, One week since she
got a guy in the shovel in
the face with That and anyway
Tomi: gotta
make a break and take I think I'd
like it's taking a good shake.
I'm gonna know it's the
finest of the flavors
Emily: for proving that you're human.
I can't.
All right, so the loss of privacy has now
affected the town violence has escalated,
and now everybody is wearing a mask in
public because it's it is the purge.
It's the purge, guys.
But, instead of just fighting each
other like they have been now there's
an angry mob, and they're gonna go find
that hacker, who is probably a teenager.
entire mob is wearing masks
and adults there might be some
teens there, but not enough.
Ben: I mean, this is a mass lynch
mob that at one point in the movie is
literally chanting with their police
officer leader, We're good people!
We're good people!
Emily: yes,
Tomi: How do you think the town of Salem
handled the mask mandates two years later?
Like were they immediately on board or
was this when they stopped wearing them?
Cuz ain't no one gonna tell them what to
Ben: Tomi, you know exactly
what the answer to that question
Emily: yeah, yeah, they wore the
full body masks, but they made
sure to cut the whole mouth out.
Tomi: Batman costume.
Jeremy: there's something that we sort
of, glazed over here, which I'm interested
in the way it's handled in the movie,
which is all of the, uh, jock bros who
are all working out are all pissed off
that Diamond, who has been exposed as
having slept with Bex at this point,
uh, having specifically gone down on
Bex, That he has not shown back up to
school since these things came out.
So, they decide that they're gonna
go track him down and beat his ass
because he slept with a trans girl.
but we don't see any of that.
Like, We see all the violence that
happens to women in this movie.
We do not see the violence
that happens to him.
He will show up later having been beaten
but we don't follow any of that, which I
don't know, it's an interesting choice.
I guess maybe it's just because
generally the perspective we're keeping
is, is on them, except for Where we're
following the bros there, anyway.
And also,
the cheerleader gets her head kicked in.
Ben: of the many movies in this movie
is the romance of Diamond and Bex.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Quasi romance.
I
Tomi: head cannon though Like, despite
being an angry mob that can and does
do a lynching never once do they
misgender Bex or Deadname or anything,
so as far as mobs go, kinda woke, and
in fact, I think they're just more
mad that Diamond went down on Bex.
Like, they specifically say, I can't
believe Diamond sucked Bex's dick.
And I think it's that
that they're pissed about.
Not that she's trans.
It's like, this is clearly a town
where men do not go down on women.
And they are not going to stand that lest
they get ideas in their head and start
talking to their girlfriends about it.
Ben: love the idea Okay, I'm on board that
this has nothing to do with trans issues
and is entirely an anti oral sex mob.
Emily: I
Jeremy: Anti oral sex on
anybody presenting as a woman.
Like, regardless of the type of oral
sex involved, they are against it, as
Ben: you use she her pronouns, don't you,
like, you better not get any from a mouth.
I could have worded that better.
Emily: Can you rephrase that?
I'm not sure if I
Ben: I I can't, I watched this movie
today, I'm in so much back pain,
that's the best I got.
Emily: Okay, don't worry about it.
Jeremy: I do have to say, on the
topic of the wo the woke mob, the
mob that is woke that stood out to
me as a As sort of a fascinating
choice on the part of the writing
and filmmaking is that like despite
Like you said them doing a lynching.
I'm not sure if this is correct, but
there's almost like nothing explicitly
anti trans from this mob of people
Except that they do not want the
trans person to be happy, I guess
Ben: there is, I wonder, again, and
please stop me, seriously if I start going
down a bad road, please fucking stop me.
Maybe there's a reading where, a reading
of this, where all of them are madly
in love with Bax, they're all violently
jealous that Diamond is the one who
hooked up with her, and they've decided
that their love for her will tear them
apart so they have to destroy her.
Lest they break their bonds
of high school football.
Tomi: We've totally glazed over the badass
girl walks that happen across campus,
which is something this has in common
with Hocus Pocus, I'll give it that.
Emily: Yes.
Tomi: But when Bex walks past the
jocks, it's not Diamond that's
like, hey Bex, looking great.
It's that best friend.
So I think you're onto something, Ben.
Like, he's pissed that someone
else got with Bex first.
Emily: I think they're all
pissed that Diamond had more
courage than any of them did.
Ben: and
Diamond did not have very much courage,
but he still had way more than the rest of
Emily: he had courage to,
actually approach Bex.
Like, that's the thing is they
all like, they were into it.
Ben: And they were lab partners.
Emily: Okay.
Jeremy: I love that none of us
are commenting on the fact that
this dude's name is Diamond.
Which is wild.
Just kind of
Ben: I just, I'm just gonna assume
his parents were big fans of the Lou
Phillips variety, and just go with that.
Emily: I mean, some people,
you can have cool names,
Jeremy: Because, like, everybody
else in here is Lily and Sarah
and Nick and uh, Johnny and Mark.
And uh, he is Diamond,
and nobody is like name,
Ben: like how we've watched,
we watched Blackening and there
was a, just a dude named King.
Emily: bless them,
Ben: it's a weird name, but it's
like, within the realm of weird
names, where I'm just like, yeah,
you probably had some hippie parents.
Emily: Yeah, alright, so, the Angry
Mob is gonna go after Er0str4tus
and kill his ass, and so, they start
with that nerd that was interrogated
because of the hashtag he used.
He is now being kidnapped from his
home and tortured on video by the
aforementioned Angry Mob, Angry Mob,
Ben: continues to not be subtle.
Emily: yeah, the Angry Mob is the
same police officers, this kid,
Marty, Blames Lily in his confession
because she had a lot of the data
going in and out of her house.
And that's where our end
game is indicated here.
Jeremy: yeah.
Also, Nick is very much part
of the interrogation here, and
then he just happens to wander
off once the mob starts up
Ben: in hindsight, I love how like,
the data coming from Lily's IP is the
same, like, level of foreshadowing
as Simpson DNA and the Who Shot Mr.
Burns mystery.
Emily: Listen, remember, subtlety?
Never heard of it.
meanwhile, Lily is watching Hackers.
And why you would, why would you
watch Hackers in the middle of this?
Like, I don't know, whatever.
Ben: To learn important
antivirus methods, of course.
To learn how to keep the
zero coolant acid burnout.
Tomi: If they hack the planet, they
hack everyone, and therefore no
one's been hacked, if it's everybody,
so I think she's getting ideas.
Ben: Hack the
Emily: that's a good she, she's
about to be on the phone with Matthew
Lillard being like, what do I do?
Anyway,
Jeremy: like the idea that she,
the character, is on the phone with
actual Matthew Lillard, the actor.
Emily: yeah, because the movie
Jeremy: Matthew Lillard, you were
in Hackers, how do I deal with this?
Ben: One day we'll cover
Lawnmower Man 2 beyond cyberspace.
No
we
won't.
There's,
Emily: sounds good.
Ben: as I've
Emily: Who knows?
I mean, long enough timeline.
Okay, so the mob descends on Em's house,
which is where all the girls are holed up.
Masked gunmen infiltrate their
house, like, these teenage girls
are members of Al fucking Qaeda.
Jeremy: Yo, props to Sam Levinson on
this exterior shot of like tracking
around the outside of the house and
the guys sort of popping out of the,
shadows in and out of this thing.
Like, it's a great shot and a great,
very like, rich glass house of, these
guys sort of sneaking around this thing.
It really pops and it's a moment
that like, grabs your attention back
from, you know, the edge at this
point and you're just, you're like,
oh man, this is really fucking tense.
Emily: yeah.
Ben: clowned on Sam Levinson
this episode, there is a lot of
really good directing going on.
Uh, Like I really love the use of almost
like, three panel grid filmmaking.
Like, like, he uses multi panel
filmmaking in a way we haven't
seen since Ang Lee's The Hulk.
Emily: Right?
Ben: But it works this time!
Tomi: this is what makes me introduce
people to this movie like almost as much
as like everything else in the ending of
it But like yeah, I love how it's almost
like a music video through half of it
but with simultaneous storytelling and
not in the like dumb comic book hyper
stylized thing we see and Actually far
probably too many movies now this does it
well and makes it kind of play into the
social media like phone dimensions vibe
Emily: yeah, yeah, because I mean
it really picks up that quality of
like, just images, entertainment news,
all this shit that's coming at you
from all angles, and, like, whether
you have ADHD or not it's a lot.
Alright, so, Sarah and
Em have been tied up.
They almost get Lily, but fucking
Em's mom, MVP, bless her heart, Nance,
comes in and shoots the shit out of
one of these guys with her security
weapon that she has in the house.
But, and, but then
Ben: a fucking badass.
Justice for Nance.
Emily: justice for Nance because she goes
around popping these assholes and then
she gets shot and it's very sad and that's
where I was, I was angry about that.
Tomi: The only decent parent in this
movie too, like, giving a home to all
four of these gals, and like, pretty
sexually open person, like, they say
the first hacking got Nance, and we
just get like, a shot of her being a
dom, surprising no one, so like, I'm
kind of shocked that this was a deal.
Ben: That, again, that's because Nance,
like, fucking keeps good company.
No, we are introduced to Nance just as
strange dude and she is happily giving him
a foot rub, and despite the bad mouthing
that we get about the guy just because
of assumptions from, like, our four
main girls, like, there is no reason to
believe Nance is just not into that guy
and into giving him a foot rub, and she
doesn't give a shit who knows about it.
Emily: yeah, she might be just,
that might be work, that's
maybe that she has, that she's a
Ben: Again, Nance lives her life
where you can threaten to blackmail
her and her response is, Great,
saves me the trouble of having
to write a newsletter this month.
Tomi: And like, Lily, when she walks in,
immediately tells her the like, kinda
traumatic explicit shit she's been doing.
She does not have that dialogue with
her parents, and we see why, but
like, Nance, you can confide in Nance.
And she'll also get a gun and shoot a
couple motherfuckers when the time comes.
Emily: Yeah she is a decisive individual.
So, a guy comes after Bex who
is outside Bex manages to kill
this guy with his own nail gun in
the pool and is very beautifully
Ben: Oh, I love the nail gun
scene.
I, you know what?
I'm gonna go out there.
I'm gonna go out on a fucking like,
if we can get a good writer to
like, fucking write him in, let Sam
Levinson direct a James Bond movie.
Tomi: Is this the one that the
alt right keeps warning us about?
Where James Bond is now
a trans woman of color?
Cause I'm on board even
more so, if
Emily: I, Yeah, same.
Let's
Ben: can Abigail, can fucking the,
the girl from Philosophy 2 be the new
Tomi: Ah!
Emily: Yeah.
Alright, so, Bex escapes him, the invaders
reveal themselves to the characters
to in fact be the police all while
chanting, we're good people, they prepare
to execute two teenage girls, and on
the word of coerced confession Sarah
and Em are now held as bait for Lily.
Lily now runs to Nick, for help
and, he quickly holds her at
knife point and assaults her,
trying to force her to confess.
Meanwhile, the high school homophobes
have caught Bex and Diamond, who is
brutally beaten prepares to lynch her.
And, he says he has no choice.
Lily manages to escape Nick by saying
that she will, she will have sex
with him, and then she bites him,
runs into his bathroom, which is
full of the corpse of his dead wife.
Slipping on his, on his wife's blood,
Lily kills Nick with a razor to
the throat as he tries to stab her.
Tomi: And can we just call out the
MacGyver weapon that Lily makes with
a bar of soap and a safety razor?
Like, that's maybe gonna
save my life someday.
Ben: if we get the image
that he killed the wife.
We don't see the daughter?
Emily: yeah,
Ben: Again?
Emily: to the daughter.
Tomi: I wasn't Colker's body,
the
Ben: yeah,
that, because I, because I thought it was
because I thought it was Marty too, when
I first saw it.
Jeremy: He says the wife has left and
took the daughter in his first text
like, right after he gets hacked.
Which I like, honestly, obviously
he's not a very trustworthy person
to take his word on the thing, but
I thought that was Marty's body.
Emily: either way, because I think he
says something like I didn't kill her,
Jeremy: I thought
Ben: And then he said I didn't kill him.
Emily: okay, I, you're probably
right I, but I mean, he's
still a fucking psychopath,
and I'm glad that it's, I'm glad
that if his wife, if that's not
his wife, thank Christ they're,
they're, absconded with their lives.
Ben: Because, man, if this movie
had a dead kid to like, in his back
pocket for shock value, I feel like
it would have played that card.
Emily: yeah, I don't know if I
would want to play that card because
Ben: I know,
but it would have played it.
This movie and restraint
are not on good terms.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: restraints.
Emily: ExtremeRestraints.
com.
All right, so, now Lily is alone in Nick's
house and, the extent of his psychopathy
is revealed with his weird, like, laid
out collection of firearms and katanas.
You know, having a katana, okay, having
two katanas, sure, having a katana,
two katanas, and several AK 47s, leave.
Unless you need them, then take them.
Fighters keepers.
And that's what she does.
She masks up and packing to the nines.
She shoots the shit out of the cop,
holding Sarah and Em and saves them.
They then go and find Bex and, save
her with all of their guns and swords.
They kill the entire lynch mob except
for Diamond and the lynch mob leader.
whose name, the guy, that kid's name I
don't remember, I don't care, but he's
crying and begging on his knees, and Vex
decides not to shoot him in the head.
Ben: And he really tries to play,
I was just, I was just kidding
about doing a hate crime lynching.
Jeremy: I believe is that Johnny?
Tomi: Yeah, I
Emily: it was Johnny.
Jeremy: Cody Christian.
Yeah, I, man, these scenes in these
movies with the like, Oh, you shouldn't
do a killing of a person who was
definitely going to lynch you and or
murder you and or rape you and will
definitely do so again the moment that
you turn around and are vulnerable.
I fucking hate them.
I fucking hate these scenes.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: like, I,
think not are they bad in movies, but
I think they, I mean, if anybody pays
attention to them, they set up a stupid
precedent for people to follow, which
is like, yes, definitely definitely
turn your back on the person who at
the first sign of, uh, that they could
get away with it, decided to try and
Ben: I really thought they were gonna
do the thing where like, he's like,
Ah, they turned their back, now I
shoot them, and then they turn, and
then like, And now they have extra
justification, then they gun him down.
Emily: yeah, I would have preferred
that, honestly, but like, I mean,
him being a loose end, not cool just
in a pragmatic standpoint, right?
Ben: I really thought we were
gonna get a Scream 6 ending where
it's like, it makes you as bad as
him, but on the other hand, dang.
Emily: yeah.
that would have been better.
So, anyway, Lily, Bex, Em, and Sarah
now evade the mob long enough to post
a call to action online, and, uh,
Tomi: This is EZA in the darkest timeline.
Emily: yeah.
And, they are joined in the street
by an army of unarmed teenage girls.
the four heroines and
the angry mob stand off.
Ben: Second movie in a row we've
covered that ended with angry mobs
of women taking to the street.
Emily: Yeah, good for them.
Ben: Notes
for the real world, perhaps?
Hmm?
Emily: sometimes I wonder.
I'm not gonna wonder yet though,
out loud, because I still have
two more sentences on this recap.
We cut now to the denouement.
Lily is still alive.
She was almost killed.
We know that.
But the FBI has finally showed up.
They have apprehended the true
villain, which is the little brother.
He was Er0str4tus, and they ask him, why?
Why did you do it?
And he says, Shrug, for the lulz,
and that's assassination nation.
Tomi: Hold on, we are forgetting the
marching band sequence dancing to Miley
Cyrus that is like the triumphant happy
moment that makes this all worth it and
leaves you off on like a pretty good note
where we find out most of them are okay.
The unarmed women seem to won the fight
and of course the marching band was
on the right side of history and ready
to fucking play Miley Cyrus about it.
Ben: 100%.
Emily: Thank you.
Yes.
Yes.
That was during the credits and, uh,
yeah, that's an important thing to
mention as we end on that incredibly
sardonic delivery from the young brother.
But yeah, we have got a marching
band walking, marching through
the street with burnt out cars.
Jeremy: that we've been through all
that, I, I do want to pause and ask
Tomi, like, uh, this is, this is
when you brought to us what is it?
What is it about this movie that you love?
What do you want to be sure to talk about?
Tomi: Yeah, like, this is one of those
movies that when I first saw it in, I
think, 2020, like, I felt like I had
never seen a movie like this before.
And there was the personal level that this
hit that, like, made this existentially
terrifying to me, myself, as this was,
like, socially the worst case scenario
I could imagine happening for myself,
but I did notice that the other, like,
horror movie fans I showed this to
didn't seem to get that same terror,
and maybe that was a sign of something.
Ben: No, no, I I I gotcha.
Don't worry, I I I
Tomi: well, that's the thing.
You get me.
The cis men I showed it to didn't.
Uh, yeah,
Ben: if you've never been
followed and yelled at on the
street for wearing a dress,
Tomi: and yeah, like the hyper
stylized nature we were talking about
a second ago, like, with the multi
panel storytelling, and like, just the
weird music sync up sequences, like,
This has a certain style to it that
I've not really seen done elsewhere.
People who've watched Euphoria
maybe have seen it elsewhere now.
I don't know, I'm probably
not gonna watch Euphoria.
Yeah, like, I also just felt like this
was the Black Mirror episode about
modern technology, or now, like, circa
2016 2018 technology that maybe the
world needed to take note of more?
And, also with a title like Assassination
Nation, like, my friend and I went
into this expecting, like, John
Wick with girls, or The Purge, or
Ben: I was definitely expecting something
closer to like a Smoke Aces type
of deal, like teen girl Smoke Aces.
Tomi: this was not at
all what we expected,
and was I
Ben: that I
Tomi: Yeah,
Jeremy: I
don't think that
Ben: it wasn't what I expected,
but that does not mean I'm not
really glad it was what it was.
Like again, I think this movie
tackled some weighty ass topics.
Maybe topics a little weightier than
it could handle, but the fact that
it even invites those conversations
and for other conversations to
pick up those discussions, I
sure as shit commend it for.
Emily: Yes.
I, go ahead.
Tomi: I like how this goes far enough
to be, like, jarring, and yeah, make
you stare at the wall, but I feel
like it does it respectfully to the
actresses involved, like, despite
there being a lynching, we never hear
a transphobic slur lobbed at Bex,
Ben: It's not bleak,
Tomi: for all of the, like, sexual
aggression and, yeah, sexual violence,
like, there's never anything that,
like, goes fully Explicit, or all
the way in a traumatizing manner the
way that like, I don't know, I felt
like the remake of Straw Dogs did.
so it's one of those that like, as
bleak as it gets, Because things
turn out for our four heroines in
the end, and it does end on such a
triumphant note, It's a movie that
gets dark and still leaves me with
like, a feeling of optimism at the end.
Ben: totally.
Like, it's dark, and like, I
never feel like utter despair.
Like, I feel high amounts of tension.
I feel high amounts of, I have no idea
how they're gonna get out of this.
But that's just, again, affective,
like, movie, and, danger and movie.
But yeah, like, this movie, like, this
is not a movie that just wants to bash
you over the head with queer people and
women experienced violence and trauma
and their existence is to suffer.
And the very best you can hope for
is to maybe hopefully survive even
if your existence is still shattered.
This movie is still has enough
of like, enough of a presence
to just fucking chug them like a
monster energy drink in one go.
And then say like, nah, you and
your like, fucking gather up your
bad bitches, squad up, put on your
sickest red leather jacket, grab
some guns and start fucking shit up.
And, that the movie still has the.
Resonance of mind and the desire to
offer that level of fuck yeah, fantasy
escapism, cathartic violence, like,
again, like, this movie is heavy,
it is dark, but it never falls into
hopelessness or despair, or just
like, trauma, or just, trauma porn,
Emily: um,
Jeremy: think the stuff that is
completely like, it's completely just
sort of thrown in there under the radar.
That is really interesting to me
is sort of like the stuff with
and around the brother, who as
we find out is the closest thing.
I mean, not the closest to a villain,
there's plenty of villains in this movie.
But is villainous in his own right,
because like, I think like that's.
It's really realistic to the way people
deal with this stuff and their children.
And I think really true to life in
that, like, the parents are so concerned
and caught up in all of this stuff
with their daughter, sexting and then
taking, you know, explosive pictures
of herself and all of this stuff, and
not, not doing anything empathetic
about it, but punishing her for it,
while, like, the brother is, like,
doing things that are truly horrendous.
And like, there's this bit where they're
having this conversation where she is
talking about how messed up all these
things that happened to the principal
are, and when she storms off he's
like, Hey, did you, did you guys see
that video where this whole family
gets mauled by a tiger on safari?
And the parents are just
like, no, we didn't see that.
And he's like, it was cool.
Ben: Oh, I love the dad's delivery.
No, his exact line is, I
think I missed that, or like,
I must have missed that one.
This
Jeremy: And it's, it's so like telling
that this kid is an absolute sociopath.
Like, he is just completely cut off from
the idea of caring about other people, and
his parents do not notice, do not care.
They are so concerned with
their daughter's sexuality
that, like, they don't notice
that their son is a sociopath.
Ben: is a purveyor of a hate that
you see now that is so toxic that
feels like this almost supernatural
creation of the internet.
This person, this creature that spreads
so much just rank, bigotry, and hate.
Not even necessarily because they
themselves hold particularly bigoted
beliefs, but because they know that
bigotry is the best way to hurt others.
Emily: and it's also a, I mean, he
was saying at the end of the movie, he
was saying he did it for the lulz and
I don't think he was doing anything.
he was just fucking around to find out.
I don't think he was
even like, being hateful.
He was just,
I
mean,
other than he's being malicious,
Yeah, I don't and, the bigotry.
I mean, the mo actually, yeah,
he is, because he is trolling his
sister and calling her a whore.
That's pretty telling,
Jeremy: yeah, I, and I don't
know, they, they sort of suddenly
note that these things are being
uploaded to 4chan, too, which,
Ben: Oh, the kids So I guess there's A
way of looking like, because I'm trying
to like, think about like, the actual
sequence of events of his actions, and
I guess it's just a question of did
he know that by hacking the neighbor
he would be exposing his sister?
Like, was he truly trying to hurt his
sister and make her a target, or was
he just being a teenage hacker and
fucking with his sister for the lols?
Emily: The fact that she was she
was not hacked is, I think, is
pretty telling in that regard.
Because, like, if he wanted
to hack her, he could've.
He didn't even have to do fuckin VPN shit.
Ben: because I think there
is,
Emily: in and get her phone.
Ben: because again, while he is all
those things you said, you know, now that
we're here, I'm trying to just, trying
to put myself kind of in, his shoes
and like the sequence of his actions.
Like, cause you start with the mayor,
like, okay, a guy who is exposed bigotry,
who is using his position of power to
take away rights and harass others.
And oh, look at this.
We catch him in the most massive
of like hypocrisy and scandal.
Well, sure.
This is a bad guy doing bad things.
Fuck him.
Let's get, let's send this out there.
And then, ooh, I wonder
what reaction it gets.
Holy shit, he, he, he unalived himself.
I'm a little sociopath.
This is, can't imagine this reaction.
Well, who's the next position
of authority I can think of?
Well, ooh, the principal of my school.
Well, okay, there's not really
anything here, but let's just throw
it out there and see what happens.
It's like, oh, well, there doesn't even
have to even be anything real out here.
And people, and this crazy ass town will
just tear itself, will just tear the guy
apart over, like, even if there's nothing.
What
happens if I hack a BUNCH of people
now and release it and I wonder how
much more crazy in this town I'll get?
Emily: I think, I mean,
this kid is malicious.
I think he definitely knows that what
he makes public will stir shit up
Ben: Yeah, like that is the goal.
Like that is always the goal.
100%.
Emily: yeah,
he's not trying to make a statement.
He's not trying to do anything,
but stir shit up and that
is, you know, those are the
Ben: Anyway, why Assassination
10 best Joker stories?
Emily: By the way, the movie they're
watching where they, that they
emulate the Japanese movie with
that cool girl walk is Zubeko Bancho
Zange no Zange no Neuchi mo nai.
So, again, Zubeko Bancho
Zange no Neuchi mo nai.
Also known as Delinquent Girlboss.
Worthless to confess.
And it
comes from, it comes from a, a variety of
exploitates what the Succuban exploitation
movies, which are about like teenage
gangster girls, and it's very fetish.
The genre itself is very fetishy,
but it does have its moments.
But I just wanted to mention that
because, we recognize hackers from
the dialogue, but we actually see.
The four girls in their red outfits.
On the screen in this film
and then, you know, are they
Ben: I love
Emily: that is the main
characters later on?
Tomi: I love the fourth wall
breaking finally in that scene
of,
Emily: yeah,
Tomi: where one of us
would shave our head.
Like, bitch, that happened
a week ago for me.
Ben: Yeah.
Jeremy: Mm
Emily: that was really good.
And
Ben: good
Emily: There's so much
going on and it's brilliant.
Like, I feel like it's brilliant.
And, just from thought
thinking about it for 24 hours.
How this movie is about teens.
And is from the perspective of teens and
the
Ben: mean it's about teens But it's
also a movie where teenagers have lines
like that's why every guy on tinder
wants to choke me on the first date
Emily: yeah, but I mean,
that's
Ben: are Sam Levinson teens.
Emily: these are teens, though, like,
I've had this conversation with teens
that I've known in the year 20, 2008,
you know, I've known, like, 16 year
olds that have struggled with sexuality
and, they're in the midst of it.
Like, these are questions.
they know about a lot of the, uh,
the sexism, you know, it's sort
of, we take that as read, the
conservative ideals take that as read.
Now we're at a level where kids are
shaming each other for having sex
because it's too heteronormative.
This is something that happened with the,
yes, this is something that happened with
these, the, some kids that I've known.
So this is very far in the past, but
like, and this is definitely not a
usual thing, but these, this shit gets
complicated and these kids have to
gain context no matter how they can.
And a lot of the time, cause I
think, I feel like teenagers are
just as capable of all of the
philosophical understanding and context
understanding, we, that we've kind of.
Underestimate teens about, especially
when we depict them in movies, right?
Like, the thing that divides, that, that
big consent border, which is addressed
in this movie, and it's so important.
Is the fact that their experience.
And understanding of how
emotions affect actions.
Is not as under control and
is not as, is understood.
So, a guy like the, this
guy, Nick assaults Lily.
And she is a girl who is very
philosophically, psychologically mature.
Ben: All of Lily's, like,
narrations really worked for me.
I
find Lily to be a very complicated,
like, I feel like they did
a very good job with Lily.
Not so much the other characters, but
Lily's self destruction and conflicted
feelings was always very well, depicted.
Emily: yeah, and her, she
understands the concept.
She understands a lot of these concepts
really well, and this is discussed,
like, this is worn on the sleeve of this
film where she has the discussion with
her parents, where she has a discussion
with the principal about her experience,
you know, what it really means to be
looking at sex online and drawing nudes,
and the importance of who is looking
as opposed to, you know, because she
describes the situation where, you know
she has drawn a picture in her notebook
of, and she used she did a drawing from
life as the assignment was given to her.
And the principal says, this
is pornography and she's
like, no, this is, a process.
This is somebody performing to,
to get these specific reactions.
And this is something that, you know,
and she doesn't say it to the principal,
but this is something that we, we see her
doing as she is trying to navigate and
survive in this, high school situation
with all these dudes everywhere and, and
this fucking predator that's after her.
And, a lot of them have a lot of
very crass things that they say.
Ben: I mean, did we even talk about
the scene where she has sex with Mark?
While Joel McHale watches
from across the window.
Emily: Yeah, like the kind of shit that
she is dealing with that, she has to do
it and she doesn't she's not ready for
any of that, but she has to figure it out.
And so she has figured it out from a
philosophical standpoint in terms of
like, like, she has literally separated
herself from her act because that's
the only way that she can deal with it.
And that is part of her narration.
Yeah.
Like, I don't understand a guy that can
look at a picture of a naked girl and
say, I got to kill this bitch, right?
This is a quote of hers in the movie.
And, this is something that
you say and people dismiss,
but this is fucking everywhere.
And this is all applicable to teens.
This is the world that teens, this is the
world that teens were working with in the
fucking fifties in a different, capacity.
But, now with social media,
everybody's feeling everything and
seeing everything all the time.
So now they also have to figure that out.
So they have a lot more information
at their disposal, but, they still
don't know how to feel about it.
So, a lot of times it
becomes, you know, Separate.
It is a story.
It is something that is,
it is on social media.
Therefore, it is part of entertainment.
It is fiction and they're looking
at the narrative and not the effects
and that's, you know, and this
movie is about, when that crosses.
What it means when the extreme narrative.
You know, worst case scenario,
most dramatic scenario occurs.
Right.
And, it's 1 of the things that
makes this movie so good is, it is
exploring those worst case scenarios,
but with a of, of with knowledge.
Sam Levinson did say that he gave
the script to the the leading
actresses and said, please, add or
edit anything that you feel like,
you know, I need your input and I
need your input on this.
Because.
Yeah, I don't know much about him, but I,
I do know that he's not a woman at least
currently, publicly, but, and I don't know
if that's something that's on the table
for him at all, but, you know, it's none
of my business, but still, whether or
not you, that, I mean,
whether or not that, like,
Ben: a place to
Emily: yeah, no but I'm just
saying, like, Whatever the
experience is of him as a writer.
He understands the importance of the real
experience of the people that he's talking
Ben: I
mean, if nothing else,
Jeremy: I was gonna say a lot of his
writing quirks in the way that he
writes reminds me a lot of Christopher
Landon, who, uh, we've talked about,
both Freaky and Happy Death Day on here.
And I, I feel like the difference is,
Christopher Landon always has a couple
of jokes in his movie that come out
of the mouth of a 16 year old girl
and sound like the brain, sound like
the joke of a 35 year old gay man.
Like, it always, there's always one
or two in his movies that you're like,
that is a very outdated reference.
You know, that like, clearly
it was something that like,
He thought was very clever.
He thought of over brunch or heard
somebody else say it, but it's
like putting it in a teenager's, a
teenage girl's mouth was like, Ooh.
Whereas Sam Levinson there's,
these characters are in, in
some of the conversations, a
little clever in the same way.
that teenage girls often are
depicted in these things.
They're, I mean, nobody talks
the way they do in movies.
They're very smart.
They've got a lot of good jokes.
And, you know, that, that scene you were
talking about where they're all sitting
around, I guess, hackers is playing in the
background as they're talking about what
scene in the movie they're currently in.
Is very, it's very clever.
It's very funny.
It's probably pops a little more than
like, that conversation would in real
life, but it still feels like it's
coming out of those characters mouths
rather than feeling like somebody else
inserted some clever dialogue in there.
Like it was punched up, you know?
Emily: yeah,
Ben: yeah.
So I guess we want to go back
to what we were talking about
in terms of Sam Levinson and
trans issues and trans rights.
So, you know, we recently lost,
uh, Roger Corman this week.
And, uh, one of the things, you know, as
we record this and one of the things that.
You know, people talked about as
being part of his legacy was the
careers that he helped launch and the
talent that he gave a platform for.
So, I will say whether when it comes
to, you know, assassination with Hari
Nef or euphoria with Hunter Schafer
Sam Levinson has done a lot to give
a platform and a spotlight to some of
the people that are now the most high
profile, uh, trans actors working today.
So I
think that is worth mentioning and
worth having in the conversation
in that
Emily: didn't know that.
That's awesome.
Um,
Tomi: I think that's admirable for
someone that spends so much time writing
about, writing teenage stories, or
working with teenage stories, since
that's basically the big criticism
lobbed at the next generation.
If it's not their phone use, it's
their gender ideology and how
that's coming to kill us all.
And so I, yeah, that he's not just,
Gonna glance over that like he's gonna
actually focus on that and show what trans
people are going through and let these
actors and actresses speak for themselves
Emily: yeah.
For sure, and he listens, and
that's what I think that's the most
important thing that someone can do.
That, especially with teens and
the younger generation, how many
problems could we avoid if somebody
just listens to what somebody has
to say, no matter what age they are,
Jeremy: And I mean, it's I feel like
as a writer, that's something that I've
harped on a lot, talking to people,
giving advice at conventions, it's just
like, you gotta put it in front of the
people you want to represent, you gotta
talk to them, you gotta listen to what
they're saying, and if you're afraid
to do that, then you shouldn't do it.
Like, you shouldn't if you are afraid
to put your work in front of the
people that you think you want to
represent, then you either need to go
back and do more work, or don't do it.
Find something else to write about.
Yeah, you don't, I think like, we've
had this sort of backlash of people
pushing back against having characters
in stories who do not represent your
experience, and I think like, that's sort
of missing the point, right, because we
had a long time where we were talking
about like, having that representation
and having that diversity in stories.
And there are, plenty of people
who have done that as a cash in
having, you know, characters that
aren't like themselves writing
stories that aren't theirs to tell.
But I think there's a big difference
between jumping in and just writing
that story and not taking any kind of
feedback, not welcoming feedback from the
people you claim to want to represent.
And actually doing the work and
talking to people and listening and,
paying readers and stuff like that.
So
Emily: Yeah.
I mean, how else is it
going to be a human story?
It's got to reflect human experience.
You can't base it on stories.
You got to base it on people.
Just like, Ayame Ozaki
said, you gotta draw people.
So, this movie is feminist,
I'm not even gonna ask.
Ben: Yeah,
this movie No, this movie
is extremely feminist.
This movie extremely deals
with, queer and trans issues.
Again, when it comes to areas where
races are, you know, it, it doesn't have
much to say about race, I mean, uh,Emis
barely a character, I think our biggest
problem is Principal Coleman Domingo, and,
again, in terms of, god damn, in terms
of, uh, Fuckin history throwing parts
of this movie into much harsher light.
It is impossible to read what happens
to Principal Coleman Domingo and
not see shades of Claudine Gay and
the harassment campaign that led to
Claudine Gay being forced to resign.
for President of Harvard
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: racialized elements
that went into that.
Emily: Yeah.
And, I mean, the movie didn't wasn't
terribly exp It's one of the things
that the movie wasn't terribly
explicit about, but I do like that.
I mean, there's certain things that
this movie is intent on talking about.
And it will talk about those things.
And, it knows what it does
not have the real estate.
To discuss, but I think that
all of those references are
certainly they're, deliberate.
Ben: those dreamy vibe sequences
could have been spent giving em a
character just throwing that out there.
Emily: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I think
she would deserve her whole, a whole
movie for her experience, because
she has, it looks like she has kind
of a lot of unique stuff going on.
uh,
Jeremy: I do want to say it, it hits in
one of those patches that we occasionally
talk about where like, It's good that
he has diverse characters there the
question is, like, how much do you
want him to, write this character if
I don't know, it's, she's, both the,
like, two girls that are not the two
main girls are pretty paper thin.
And, you know, we'd like a
little more filling out there.
But also there's so much, there's only so
much room in the movie and there's so much
stuff he's already trying to fit into it.
So I don't know.
It's better that they're there, even if
they're not particularly deeply written,
but it would be nice if they had a
little more sort of characterization.
Tomi: Like I like what we do get from
them like we see like how weird their
interests are and I think part of the
reason We don't get more is because they
seem like two really shameless girls like
in a confident way like they're proud
of who they are Also Nance's their moms.
They're probably not self conscious
or like hiding that much really I And
I think with how much this is, from
Lily's point of view, or following
Lily's experience, It might take
away from that a bit if we're now
getting that lumped in with whatever
the other girls are going through.
Like, honestly, even Bex, like, we get
a lot because she's like the tight best
friend, But even then, we don't see
beat for beat what her life feels like.
looks like after the hack.
We just see the consequences at the
same time they're happening to Lily and
as they're kind of in relation to her.
Ben: we don't find out about Bex's
home life like really at all.
Emily: Yeah, we don't
know if she has parents.
Tomi: And like, so many characters
in this movie have a movie worth
of events in and of themselves.
Like the principal could be his
own movie, the mayor, uh, the
little brother for sure, and
yeah, any of the main four girls.
I would love to see their stories
and it makes me wish this wasn't a
movie and instead like, One of those
interactive plays where like stuff is
happening in different rooms and you
can go throughout a space or one of
those indie video games with the same
concept like I want to see more of this.
Or
Ben: no.
This.
Emily: As like a visual novel be nuts.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I
Ben: like, the vibe of, like,
you, you start shouting, like, you
start trekking through Salem and
you find audio logs slowly filling
in the details of what happened.
Jeremy: I haven't watched Euphoria, but
from what I know about it, it seems like
the, like that is a show that also has.
A lot of characters who are
people's favorite characters
that have sort of built out and
have their own things going on.
And while, you know, it does follow
specifically Zendaya's character, it
seems like there's a lot of, like,
stuff that they've done in the later
seasons that's like, okay, we're
going to focus on this character
or that character or whatever now.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: It seems to be a strong point of
Ben: I think season one was the
Zendaya show, and then season two
was a little more of an ensemble.
But aren't we, aren't we, all just
supporting characters in the Zendaya show?
That is reality.
Emily: Possibly.
Jeremy: Like to think of it as a
Ben: It's Zendaya, it's Zendaya's
world, we're just bisexual
tennis players populating it.
That was a challenger's joke
Emily: that is a chat.
Yeah.
Oh, did you did you did
you did you try to watch?
Jeremy: If we stay away,
Emily: Don't worry, I'm I won't tangent.
Jeremy: Yeah, I think the only,
only things we haven't really talked
about, which I don't think it deals
with very much are there's not much
in the way of discussion of class.
Everybody is sort of upper
middle class in there.
They do sort of project
some of that into the
Ben: look, it's just a quaint
neighborhood from 1980 2018.
Emily: I mean.
Yeah, especially like, considering
the kind of culture that kids
are into, like, I have not,
Ben: Again, we are two years post
Stranger Things, like, 1980s hype has,
like, nostalgia has never been Like,
more powerful than it was in 2018.
Emily: yeah that I do want to say
real quick about Bex and her situation
and the way that it is treated.
When I first watched the movie, I had
in my notes that I thought that Diamond,
Like cut their encounter short because
he realized that she was trans and then
I realized that I was wrong and I was
making an assumption because this is the
predictable narrative that comes from
this and that was not what was going on.
He fully knew that she
was trans and and yeah,
Jeremy: do feel like the cut in their
sex scene is a little confusing.
Because it does seem like they, they roll
around a bit and then they go straight
to sex and then They're getting dressed.
This is sort of the cut.
And then later on, you find out
that he went down on her, which is
like, Oh, we didn't see that part.
it definitely happened between the
cut or before the cut or something.
Ben: That's what the pa That's
what the panel break is for.
It happened in the gutter space.
Tomi: having known a thing or two
about Teenage Boy having been one
at one point It could very well be
that didn't happen, but this is just
guys being like, Oh, Diamond slept
with Bex, and therefore, he did this.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: Yeah, that would check
Jeremy: it sounded like it
was something they got from
texts or pictures on the phone.
But again, like we don't see
everything that people reference in
the story, which makes it difficult.
a little hard to glean exactly what has
gone on in some places, but I mean, again,
you know, it is one of those, it does,
this is a movie that in talking about
not how messed up it is to like, look
at to get, sex from teenage girls also
challenges you to be like, How much of
this scene did you actually wanna see?
Like, you, you don't know what happened
in this scene because we cut and shouldn't
we have, it's like, well, yeah, I mean,
I
I, I, need some cliff notes
so I know we're at, but,
Emily: well, in terms of the actual,
like, sex acts, I think, like a lot of
the things that are part of this movie,
like, the conflict in this movie, it
doesn't matter what actually happened.
It matters what people
think happened, right?
And that's what's the, that is the
sticky wicket of a lot of this social
media stuff and a lot of the, or not
even social media, like, social stuff.
Right?
Like, whether or not Principal
Terrell was a pedophile,
Ben: He
Emily: didn't, he wasn't.
And, that was more clear to us
than whatever the fuck Nick was.
I mean, Nick was a predator, but
like, how fucking deep did that go?
I don't know.
I don't care.
I, I'm glad that she got the gun stuff.
Ben: Right?
Like, that man had too many katanas.
Emily: yeah and, The, but it, what really
mattered is what people thought and
how, what people decided to do with the
information that they had, you have a
revelation about your partner.
You don't, you're not always going to go
and like, cave in their head with a bat,
Ben: yeah, we didn't even talk
about the one girl who got fuckin
her head camped in with a baseball
Tomi: You mean Bella Thorne?
Ben: Yeah, we didn't even talk
about Bella Thorne in this movie.
Holy fuck.
Emily: who's, who says, well, I think if
someone's hacked, it's their own fault
because there's no such thing as privacy
Ben: Privacy is dead.
One of the, definitely one
of the themes of the movie.
Jeremy: and then she
gets hack and she gets dead.
Emily: Yeah.
Well, she doesn't die, but she is.
Jeremy: Does she not?
Emily: No, she doesn't
because Greg, like they say,
Ben: She gets bashed
out of the movie though.
Emily: She
Jeremy: gets baseball batted
and left on the floor.
Tomi: baseball batted, but in one
of those montages of And then the
town went to hell over this week.
We see her standing over another
girl like she just punched her.
I don't know if it's Grace or someone
else, but we do see Regan again in
a brief like social media montage.
Emily: Yeah.
So, yeah, like, again what
people do with the information.
I mean, the adults are also
assaulting each other over that shit.
and so, I think
Tomi: What a beautiful, like, vignette
that I think this movie maybe could've
used more of like, we get in one
scene a full story that, granted I
hadn't pieced together until a couple
rewatches, but yeah, Grace is saying
that Regan Bellathorne leaked her nudes
and like, things between her and her
boyfriend, and that's like, potentially
ruined her future, so that's why
she brings a bat and just gives one
good strike to Regan and walks off.
And I think if there's one thing maybe
this movie could have done is like,
have three or four moments like that
are just like a self contained story
in one scene that doesn't necessarily
pertain to Lily or the other main four.
Emily: yeah I feel like maybe some
of that was, there was a lot of
like, during a lot of those three
panel the triptychs of, of insanity
there was some of that going on, but
Jeremy: Well, yeah.
I mean, that's the only one That's not
about them though, because that is.
specifically about the jocks deciding to
go get diamond because of his interactions
with her and then the stuff about Lily
and then this, the other one is the
third one with, with two, like, with
sort of these incredible actresses that
are just, basically just like, They're
just having cameos in this movie.
Their characters have names
and stories and everything, but
they're in and out of this movie.
They might have been there a day on set.
Yeah, both, both Maude
Apatow and Bill Thorn.
They just, they have their own little
story there and then they're out.
Emily: Yeah, but I mean, I, I'm glad
that these girls don't exist in a vacuum.
I mean, obviously they don't, but,
the death of the social media drama is
just as complex as it is in real life.
If not.
Less, because of all people now
are dealing with their online
personas versus their personal life.
And then, yeah if people are threatening
or, you know, saying to each other
over Steven Universe fan art,
like,
Ben: Yeah, that's uh,
not good.
Emily: yeah,
Ben: bad
bad one might even say.
Emily: this is in the thick of something,
you know, if something that, Intricate
and the amount of like feelings involved
in very confusing things, right?
I mean, this movie makes it pretty clear.
What the stakes of a lot of the, uh, the
interactions between these people, the
sexting and, Nick preying on Lily and,
and how she first interpreted that and
how she got in that situation because
she was preyed upon, but then her parents
blame her for being a slut, that's
more straightforward than like, the.
very, like, all sorts of layers of
shit of, like, identity, what people.
Will threaten each other
and dos each other over.
And I'm glad that they stayed
with something that's a little
bit more general like that.
But it is to that, to say that, the
social media is very complicated
and it is, and you never know
what people are gonna be upset by.
and it is just up to the US to
figure out what we're gonna do
with the information that we have.
And, you know, this is, this movie
presents the worst case scenario of
what these people do, you know, they
do the worst thing that could happen
with information that they just did not
expect, that threat, that challenged them.
Ben: I mean, it reminds me of, and I,
again, it's definitely, I'm not even
sure if there's something intentionally
trying to evoke it because again, this
movie was definitely deeper into the
systemic societal sexism going on, but
the way, um, We've seen there be very,
like, high profile attacks, and then,
you know, your internet sleuths get
their internet sleuthing on, and they
end up naming the wrong person, and,
and all of the negative, and the
negative impacts that can have, like,
the way somebody's life can be derailed.
By, by being named by a
Reddit thread, incorrectly.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Or all the people that have to add
stuff to their Twitter profile because
they have the same name as somebody else.
Tomi: There's something related to the
LGBT characters and themes I wanted
to touch on that kind of relates
back to what Emily was saying about
Bex not killing Johnny at the end.
Now, I don't know if this film has
enough room to depict, like, another
closet trans person, like, given the
situation with the mayor, who might
just be a cross dresser for all we know,
but, Passionately, both Diamond and
Johnny seem to feel about Bex, like,
both in admiration and self loathing.
Cause, like, we see the interaction
with Diamond, sleeping with her, but
her not wanting her to tell anyone.
Johnny, like, complimenting her
in the school's courtyard, and
then yet, being the one to lead
the charge on the lynching.
Like, If we had gotten some indicator,
it might come off hamfisted, but
like, revealing that Johnny might
be a closet trans woman, I feel like
that kind of makes the ending work a
little better, because it gives closure
to like, Bex going from like, he
wouldn't mourn my death, why the fuck
should I mourn his, to like, seeing
that now in someone else and, like, I
get that's kind of there as is, but,
Ben: it is an arc that Bex goes
through during the movie, for
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's all, and that's a lot of,
but that would be a lot of information to,
to, to load in to have that work better.
And I feel like Bex.
You know, I think we could have
had a satisfying arc there with
Bex not killing Diamond, and Bex
saving Diamond from those guys.
Uh, God,
Ben: literally a line, yeah,
literally in the movie.
Emily: yeah,
Ben: So, uh,
yeah, I think I know the answer to
this, but do we recommend, uh, do
we recommend Assassination Nation?
Emily: I in fact did earlier
today to one of my students,
Jeremy: It's certainly not without
caveats and trigger warnings, but yes,
Ben: fortunately, the movie
provides the trigger warning itself.
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: while showing you the things
happening that it is warning you about.
So maybe not the ideal
trigger warning situation.
Emily: And I will say that the student.
A, 18 at least B one of the things I
was helping them with was writing a,
uh, version of Fight Club where both
the narrator and Marla are trans.
So, that was important.
And I thought, I'd, and if he
ever sees it, I would love to
hear his his reaction to it.
Because, it's the
generation before him even.
But a generation that he's a lot
more familiar with than I am, for
sure, just being on the street.
Tomi: Shit, is this
already a period piece?
Emily: Well, welcome to being
an adult, because yeah I
Jeremy: I will say, period piece or
not, it has a much better handle on
social media than a lot of movies I've
seen that incorporate social media into
their,
Emily: absolutely.
Jeremy: It, the, their use
of social media feels good.
It feels, well, not
good, bad, but like feels
right.
It feels like they have a
good understanding of it.
That said, did we have, uh, anything
we wanted to recommend that people
check out related to this or not?
Ben: So, I would say a movie that
I would recommend, and one that
we've already covered on this
podcast, is Promising Young Woman.
Tomi: Hmm.
Emily: a good one.
Tomi: Uh, mine is a lot more upbeat,
but still very stylized in some similar
ways, but The People's Joker, I just saw
Ben: Oh, I want to see that real bad.
Tomi: my favorite comic movie I've seen
in a long time, and I love it so much
that I kinda don't want to see Marvel
or DC try with a trans focused movie,
because it's not gonna be as good.
And, yeah, like, by the time this episode
comes out, I hope there's some news of
where it's coming to streaming, because
it'll be wrapping up at select showings
by then, but, yeah, do not pirate it,
but find a way to legally support the
movie, because it's an incredible trans
narrative, and, like, the perfect send
up of Joel Schumacher Batman movies, and
a very good trans coming of age story.
Emily: Awesome.
Jeremy: I'm, I've been
curious to find that.
I'm wondering if at the very least,
once FlameKahn comes around, there
might be a showing around there.
Ben: Ooh, that'd be cool.
Tomi: Oh, Jeremy, are
you gonna be there too?
Jeremy: I am.
yeah.
It's my, my first time at FlameKahn.
Ben: We will
even be having a, uh, FlameCon live show.
Jeremy: it's.
Emily: Well, I won't be there
because I'm on the wrong coast.
Ben: Yes.
With Jeremy and I, and a few great guests.
We'll be having a progressively
horrified live panel discussion.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: gonna be awesome.
Tomi: And, uh, there will be
a
Ben: your cat's trying to eat you!
Emily: Yeah he's pushy.
Tomi: On that note I'm planning on
being at FlameCon as well, and I'll
be hosting a Transcending Comics live
panel that Ben will be joining me
for, as well as a few other awesome
people, like, potentially Jay from Jay
and Miles, uh, Explained the X Men has
expressed interest,
uh, And,
Kim Wong of Thunder and Lightning, which
is one of my favorite graphic novels
of last year they're gonna be there,
and, I've also expressed interest.
And if y'all know of anyone else
within, that, within the trans or non
binary umbrella in the realm of comic
creation is gonna be there, hit them,
hit me up, cause I'd love to have
another one or two panelists on there.
Jeremy: We definitely know a few.
Okay.
Oh, uh, Emily, do you
have a recommendation?
Tomi: Ha!
Ben: Yeah
Emily: yeah, I, like I said,
not a lot of movies do what this
movie does, like you've said.
Not a lot of movies do this.
Yeah.
I've
Tomi: What about the samurai
movie they were watching?
Do you know if that one's
worth checking out as well?
Emily: I don't, I don't know it.
It's basically, it's about, I know it's
about Sukibon girls, which are like
Japanese gangster girls, which are like
in the 80s were, the guys that you see in
like Yu Yu Hakusho with their pompadours
and their, um, yeah, so those are Bonsho
and the female equivalent is Sukibon.
And so this is sort of like the girl
version of that and, while their style is
great, the movies I just, I haven't seen
this movie but I looked it up and, again,
they get a little fetishy, but, if you're
looking to, uh, do some homework and
just see where this the context for this
clip, which was, the clip was fantastic.
That's a good one.
And, you know, it's like the, what was
the one, the Prisoner701Scorpion or
whatever.
Yeah.
There's a lot of other movies that
are a lot more about the ladies
than, the gaze upon the ladies.
Jeremy: Yeah.
The, the Prisoner 701, those, those movies
are interesting and that they are like,
they're actually decent action movies
just with a whole bunch of exploitation.
People, women just naked for
no reason throughout the movie.
Like, people fighting topless, that
sort of stuff that you just like.
Huh.
How did this happen?
Yeah.
There's a bunch of that
stuff on Shudder, actually.
Or has been in the past.
For me, recommendation wise like I said,
there's not much that hits this directly.
Uh, if you're watching this and you
haven't seen Freaky or, uh, Happy
Death Day, Um, I feel like those
are sort of the, like, happier,
slightly campier versions of
where this goes in a lot of ways.
So check those out.
I also mentioned It's a Wonderful Knife,
which is a hilariously horrible title.
It is a
Emily: real.
Jeremy: It is a retelling of It's a
Wonderful Life, sort of, as a horror story
with a queer love story in it as well and
does also feature Joel McHale as a murder
dad like, That is, it is worth seeing.
It's not great.
It is fun though.
It has that feeling of like, the sets are
about 10 feet deep and then after that
they've, there's nothing to this movie.
I mentioned that I was
watching it last week.
I did finish, uh, the first
season of Fallout, if you're
not watching Fallout yet.
It's insane.
It's
Ben: I know, but Hax is back.
What am I supposed to
do, not watch Gene Smart?
I'll never not watch Gene Smart.
Emily: You could finish that
and then you watch Fallout.
Jeremy: I mean, we talked about Yellow
Jackets on here, Ella Purnell, who
plays Jackie, is the lead in Fallout.
Uh, Walton Goggins, who
I will literally watch
Ben: That's why she looks so familiar.
Oh, it's
fucking Jackie.
Okay.
Oh, that's why she looks so familiar.
I get it
Jeremy: It's also got an insane
list of people who just pop up in
here from, you know, Zach Cherry
to, Matt Berry pops up in this show.
It's just like Leslie Uggams.
There's just so many people that you're
like, Oh my god, I didn't know they
Tomi: I don't like Dr.
Seuss
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Yeah.
Matt Barry, I, I thought I was not going
to get an actual cameo from because
he does the voice of a robot in it,
but then actual Matt Barry shows up in
a flashback and I was like, Oh, yay.
So yeah, definitely worth checking out.
If you're not watching Fallout
already, uh, check it out.
It's lots of fun.
Emily: also watch Bit?
Tomi: Oh yeah!
Watch
Emily: Bit.
Bit.
Yeah, let's listen.
Oh yeah, Bit.
Jeremy: Yeah.
We've talked about a bit on here.
That's A fave.
Ben: Yep, very much so.
Hell
Tomi: it a bit.
Emily: Ayyyy,
Jeremy: on that note, I believe
that that about wraps us up.
Tomi, can you let people know where
they can find you and, uh, the
other projects you're working on?
Tomi: Yes!
Uh, you can find me on Blue Sky
and Twitter as at Tomitrimbath.
That's T OEmI, Tomi.
And I host Transcending Comics,
which is seemingly the first podcast
dedicated specifically to trans
representation in the comic book
industry and comic books themselves.
Uh, as well as Giant Sized
Violence, a toku comics podcast,
which has a lot of fun stuff.
Check out my episode, It's Morphin
Time, for something I promise
that's unlike anything you've
heard in podcasting before.
And, first and foremost though, uh,
this August, I'm launching my first
comic that one of my main podcasting
buddies helped collaborate with on.
It's called When We Transform, it's
a trans coming out tale with, uh,
kind of a Power Rangers spin on it.
And there's gonna be some, uh, there's
gonna be some really cool effects
and stuff that we'll be adding into
the Kickstarter campaign, including a
color changing edition of the comic.
Think blacklights, but cooler?
I can show y'all off air.
Ben: Nothing's cooler than
black lights.
Tomi: we'll be continuing
that as a webcomic afterwards.
So yeah, do please, uh, go to
Kickstarter, look up when we transform
and sign up to be notified on launch.
Cause we would love to have that
big support and big push early on.
And find me at FlameCon this August.
Ben: That's amazing.
Congratulations, and
best of luck on the campaign.
Ah, that's so cool.
Tomi: Thank you.
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely.
Ben, do you want to let people
know where they can find you?
Ben: Uh, yes, uh, you know what?
Speaking of, uh, Kickstarters, I have
a story in Transphoria, a trans and
non binary comic book anthology whose
Kickstarter starts May 28th, and, uh,
you can catch me at FlameCon in August,
where I will have A whole bunch of
books, like, Renegade Rule, Immortals
Fenyx Rising, and Captain Laserhawk.
Tomi: That's rad.
I actually just talked to Kat today
about doing a Transphoria episode.
So, she'll be on in August.
We'll be talking about that
and Transcending Comics.
Ben: I have the, uh, the, I
believe my story is called the
Close Enough Abridged True Story
of How I Learned I Was Non Binary.
Tomi: Love it.
Emily: Have to be there for that.
Jeremy: Nice.
And, uh, Emily, what about you?
Emily: Mega moth.net for
all your mega moth needs.
I'm on Patreon, mega moth, mega
underscore moth on Instagram.
Everything else I mega moth.
Find it.
I, you know, draw and I'll
be at Boise Comic Con.
Which my first Comic Con, in
Mountain Time, for, since Colorado.
Ben: That's awesome!
Tomi: Uh, what are you promoting there?
Emily: Me, just my, just the art that I
do, and, um, Some of the comics that I'm
hoping to read, to breathe life back into,
Jeremy: I'm wearing my Boise Comics
Art Festival shirt right now.
Emily: Yeah, and I'm gonna be
doing, probably doing some talks
there about teaching which is
a thing that I have also done.
Jeremy: Yeah, if you were in
the Boise area, absolutely
go out and check that out.
It's put on by the local libraries
there, and it's, uh, incredibly cool.
They do a Comic Con, and they also
do, like, a, like, teaching, talking
to librarians about, like, how to
deal with books being challenged
and shit like that in libraries,
which is increasingly important.
As for me, you can find me online at J
Roam, ahem, sorry, whew you can find me
online at JRoam58 on Twitter and Tumblr.
You can find me on BlueSky
and nope, that's wrong.
You can find me at JRoam58
on Twitter and Instagram.
You can find me at Tumblr
and BlueSky as JeremyWhitley.
And you can find me in August at
FlameCon, where we'll be doing a live
event like we said, and that's the
17th and 18th, and then I'll be in
Seattle, August 23rd and 24th, doing
pony stuff at Everfree Northwest, and
then to cap off August, I'll be going
to DragonCon in Atlanta, and so you can
come find me at any one of those places.
I'm hitting Three out of four
corners of the United States.
And I'll be at ALA a
few weeks before that.
So I'm, I'm hitting it all.
So yeah, come see me.
Uh, there's no excuse, or if you're in
Germany, I'll be there for Galacon too.
So, this is the rest of the
continents that I'm missing.
Emily: Jeremy's learned some
really good stuff in German.
I've seen it.
Like, mayonnaise is too
spicy for my partner.
Jeremy: yeah, uh, I learned a
very useful word today, which is
horafirm, which is Oh, horror movie.
It's one word because it's German.
Emily: Shove them all together.
Jeremy: yep.
Well, this has been a ball.
Thank you so much, Tomi, for joining us.
Tomi: Yeah.
Thank you for watching my movie.
I know
Emily: Thank you, thank you so
much, because this has been on
my, like, it's been on my list,
and I was
afraid to watch
it, but I'm so happy that I did, and thank
you for bringing it to us, and talking to
us about it, and your relationship to the
movie, because that's what we're about.
Tomi: Thank you.
I'm
Jeremy: listened to
Doosa back to back were
really interesting.
Speaking of, uh, mobs of women
running through the street.
Yeah.
Uh, so, it was great.
Thank you as always to
you all for listening.
Thank you to Ben and Emily for joining
me and until next time, stay horrified.