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What happens when life puts obstacles in your way that you just have to tackle? Turns out three Rugby League icons might be able to help.
Making it in elite sport, staring down the competition, overcoming challenges in the game and in life after rugby, Adrian Morley, Shaun Lunt, and Barrie McDermott know what it takes to keep moving forward. From the highs of big wins to the tough calls of retirement, Changing Rooms is about what happens when the final whistle blows — and how lessons from Rugby League translate into resilience, growth, and finding a new path.
The conversations are raw and no-filter — stories of comebacks, transitions, and big turning points that show what it really takes to adapt when everything changes. They’re perfect for young people facing life transitions from education to work, fans of sport seeking insight beyond the game, or anyone navigating career or personal change.
Join us as we swap stories from the pitch and beyond, and share the lessons, laughs, and honest truths that can help you figure out your own next move. Whether you’re looking for resilience strategies or just some inspiration from people who’ve been there, you’ll get insights that reach further than the game — from the Changing Rooms Squad.
About the Hosts
Adrian Morley
Adrian was never just tough — he was one of the most feared forwards in Rugby League, the first British player to win both NRL (National Rugby League) and Super League titles, and a leader who thrived in the biggest moments. After years at the very top, he knows what it means to push through pressure, face down setbacks, and then figure out who you are when the roar of the crowd fades.
Shaun Lunt
Shaun’s career had it all — Grand Final wins, England caps, and the highs and lows of playing for some of the biggest clubs in the game. But he’s also been brutally honest about injuries, mental health, and the personal battles that shaped him. Now, he brings that same openness to coaching and mentoring, offering lessons on resilience and reinvention that hit home well beyond sport.
Barrie McDermott
Barrie built his reputation as one of Rugby League’s fiercest enforcers, a no-nonsense presence for Leeds Rhinos and Great Britain. Since hanging up his boots, he’s carved out a second career in broadcasting, combining sharp analysis with the same humour and straight talk he was known for on the pitch. Barrie’s story is about toughness, loyalty, and how to evolve when one chapter ends and another begins.
Barrie McDermott:
Welcome to Changing Rooms, brought to you by our good friends at Elect, where a few of us ex pros bring you stories from the pitch and beyond. I'm Barrie McDermott. I will be joined every week by Adrian Morley and Shaun Lunt, legends, mates and proof that life after rugby is full of lessons, laughs and the odd knock-on along the way. Together, we talk about challenges, change and what keeps us moving forward on the field, at work and in life. So let's get stuck in. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Changing Rooms, the podcast brought to you by our good friends at Elect. Well, we're back, Lads. You both okay?
Shaun Lunt:
All good, thank you.
Adrian Morley:
All good. Thanks, Barrie.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah, good. You enjoyed the last couple?
Shaun Lunt:
I certainly have, and I feel like I'm getting more comfortable as time goes on.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah. Well, I think now you're comfortable, we can start to strip it back a little bit. And obviously, our games are a violent, high contact, high collision sport, so I thought we'd start with something easy. What's the biggest shot that's had the biggest effect on you in all your games?
Shaun Lunt:
Myself, I was, obviously being a hooker, I lost my position as nine. And as a hooker, obviously, that was my position, but I lost my position at nine at the time. Luke Robinson was playing better and I got moved to the second rows. And we were playing at St. Helens, and it was at Knowsley Road, the old ground, and I took a carry-off there, off the ruck and [inaudible 00:01:31] line me up. He hit me that hard that both my feet came off the floor. And he literally just sort of cradled with me like a little baby and put me to the bed. And it was one of those that he hit me that hard, I didn't know where I was. I thought it was my dad putting me to bed again.
Barrie McDermott:
Were you thinking, "What you doing in my bedroom?"
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, exactly. Knock the light off and get back out. So yeah. And then I just remember then, all the noise I was like, "Oh, I best play the ball now."
Barrie McDermott:
Well, you were more used to giving them than taking them, but surely there's somebody that rattled your cage.
Adrian Morley:
There is. I'd like to think I give more than I got. But for those who don't know, we're at Headingly Stadium and my biggest hit I took was here. I'd play there myself, but I was against the Leed's Rhinos I was playing for Warrington Wolves. And I played with a guy called Kylie Lulai at the Sydney Roosters for one year. He didn't play much first team, but when he did play, I noticed what he did and he had a fantastic technique, he had fantastic timing and he could put a shot on. Anyway, he'd been honing his skills at Leeds for the best part of 10 years. And Mickey [inaudible 00:02:29] come out and do me a half eye hooker and just got the market involved as you do and the little short ball. And I seen him at the corner of my eye.
Kylie's lining me up. And in them situations, sometimes you've just got to shut your eyes and take your medicine. I took the ball and he hit me with everything, right through my ribs, winded med, dropped me on my backside. And I love to sport at the end of the day and you give some, you take some, but I took it, rattled every bone in my body. And I got up though, that's what you've got to do. You've got to keep getting up, got to play the ball. And I just thought, "Fair play, that was good. I'll let you have that one, Kylie."
Barrie McDermott:
You know people listening to this will question your decision to, "Just brace myself and take my medicine." Your mindset is a different one. You were more used to giving them out. And I thought you might have mentioned your first game for Warrington.
Adrian Morley:
Oh, really?
Barrie McDermott:
When you went in to put a shot on Eamon O'Carroll, and Eamon O'Carroll's a great lad and was a great player in his time. He's never one stepped, but somehow he tripped over and stepped into you, didn't he?
Adrian Morley:
He did. Well, that was my first game back from me stint in Australia, I had six years in Australia. First game for the Warrington Wolves. It was on Sky against Wigan, big game. I thought, "Right, going to show the British public what they've been missing for the last six years." And even not the biggest, Eamon, and I weighed him up and thought, "Right, he's getting a Morley 'Spesh" Sprinted out the line to banjo, he mistimed it. I don't know what happened, but I heard a head clash and brought me cheekbone my first game back. So swelled up like a balloon. So yeah, that wasn't a great debut, but we still won the game.
Barrie McDermott:
I'm pretty sure I was on comms and obviously, I liked me boxing, like me MMA, UFC. And they reckon when you get a bang, the thing you don't do is that. And I remember seeing you go out like that with a cheekbone.
Adrian Morley:
I went into the hospital, I missed seven weeks, but they reckoned they could just pop out the bone to realign it. And I thought, "Great." Didn't have to have a major surgery.
Barrie McDermott:
Did you go to a mechanics or a genuine surgeon?
Adrian Morley:
A genuine surgeon. But then he made comeback game, re-broke it again, so it was the wrong choice. And then they put a proper plate in it and then that was obviously a bit more robust. So I missed the first 15 games of that year, so it wasn't a great return to Super League for me.
Barrie McDermott:
We might explore injuries in a later episode.
Shaun Lunt:
What about yourself?
Adrian Morley:
We've got many.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah, do you know what? I didn't get that many when I was carrying because I got quite squat and small.
Adrian Morley:
You didn't do that many carries, either.
Barrie McDermott:
No, people sort of, I was all elbows and knees and stuff. But I remember, do you remember Craig Greenhill?
Adrian Morley:
I do, yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
Knuckles.
Barrie McDermott:
[inaudible 00:05:05] Good lad. And tough as they come, tough as tea. We were playing at-
Adrian Morley:
When your nickname's knuckles, you know you're a tough lad.
Barrie McDermott:
But I had him, I had the beating of him. And I've done what you did, sprinted out from about three defenders in and he's never stepped. He stumbled, we clashed heads. My lights have gone out. And a bit like you said. I woke up and I'm thinking, "What you doing in my bedroom?" I woke up and the doctor's sort of tugging at my lip. And I looked at him and I saw the thread. He was called Paul, Paul Lanfie. I said, "Paul, what are you doing?" He said, "I'm just stitching your lip up, Barrie." I said, "Why?" He said, "You've clashed heads with Knuckles." I've gone, "Right, okay." I said, "Did I walk off or was I carried off?" And he said, "No, no, you were adamant you were going to walk off. You were getting everybody off you, but you walked off." And I went, "Right, okay, that'll do me." I went back on and I have absolutely no memory of the rest of that game. But yeah, it was-
Shaun Lunt:
No HIA back then?
Barrie McDermott:
No.
Adrian Morley:
Different games. It's like when Mick Cassidy elbowed me, knocked me out from a dropout. There was a great rivalry with Leeds and Wigan at the time, first and second, and we played them at the old Central Park. And a dropout, sprinted, and it was one of the worst challenges I've ever seen, not just because I was involved, but it was shocking. You can see it now on the old footage. Two coming from the side and he just jumped in, no technique about tackling, just elbowed me straight in the eye.
But then come to in the changing room, stitches up, first thing I said was, "Get me back on." First thing the doctors were saying, "Let's get him back on." And the coaches were saying... Well, it was a different game and I was happy to go on. They was happy to let me go on. And I did go back on and I won a famous victory that night, but yeah, it was a bad one.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah. And all these are stories of pushing you and yourself to the limits. And that's the title of today's episode, Pushing Yourself to the Limits. And there's different variations of that and we're going to explore that. Talk us through a moment in your career or a period of your career where you had a shift in mentality and you had to get your head around a set of different circumstances, IE, moving clubs.
Shaun Lunt:
For me is that I was coming to the end of my career. I was here, back in the 2019 and then obviously, my body wasn't up to it. I was getting to the age of retirement and I dropped down to Championship One to Batley Bulldogs. And for me, going from, especially the salary point of view as well, I was on X amount of money, over 100,000 pound and dropped right down. And that for me was a massive change because again, I had to supplement my living with working.
So I had to get up, go work through the day, then find the energy to go, then train up an evening. And it was a total sort of reshaping for me. Six weeks prior to obviously, there's only a short period of the off season of playing Super League, playing full-time rugby at Leeds Rhinos, and then six week later being in the championship, working for a living, playing part-time, and just the emotions that you're going through is just anguish and turmoil going through my mind.
Barrie McDermott:
Moz, I know your career inside out. Most of the time when you left one club, you were going up. You went from Leeds to Sydney Roosters, Sydney Roosters to Warrington, and then emotionally, the tie that you had to Salford was a big one. Did you ever feel at different points there was a mentality shift? I know that Swinton is on your CV, you had a game there. Talk us through that period.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah. Well, the biggest one was the move Down Under. I had six or seven seasons at Leeds, very settled there. And you know yourself, Barrie, the club looks after the players. I was one of the better performing players in the Super League, so I was quite comfortable here, but I wanted a different challenge. At that time, there was no English players playing in the NRL. It was regarded and still as regarded as the toughest competition in the world. Graham Murray, who I got on famously with here at the Rhinos, he just got the coaching job there at the Roosters and I just thought I'd love to go out. But it was a lot tougher transition than I thought. I thought I'd just go into it and it'd be a breeze, but it was a big change.
First of all, not having friends and family around had a bigger effect on me than I thought it would. The competition was a lot tougher, the players were a lot fitter. The weather was red up, which again, had an effect. And I made the mistake of, I had two heroes at the time, Ruben Wiki and Gordon Tallis, who were my position, one was a Kiwi, one was an Aussie. And they were the toughest, hardest, best in their position. So first time I got a chance to play against Ruben Wiki at Canberra, I'd just run it in as hard as I could. "Right, give me your best." And he give me his best, he banjoed me.
Barrie McDermott:
He broke a bone, though, didn't he? Take us through that.
Adrian Morley:
He did, yeah, yeah. The collision was horrendous. Anyway, we both got up at marker. I got up as if nothing was wrong, played the ball. He got up at marker as if nothing was wrong. And they had the physio come on and said, "I think you've broke your arm there, Moz." I said, "I think it broke me up there anyway, yeah." So they took us off and they put us in a car, took us to Canberra infirmary. And I walked in the waiting room and there was a guy there with a neck brace on and he went, "Hey, Moz." And it was Ruben Wiki. But that's the beauty of Rugby League. He broke my arm, he sat there with a suspected broken neck, but we didn't talk about the incident, we just talked about life. And as good as the player he was, he's an even better guy.
And I'm so glad I got the opportunity to meet him. Probably not in them circumstances, I would've preferred not a broken arm. But because I did break my arm, I missed seven weeks of the season, which is a big chunk because the season's a little bit shorter over in Aussie. I had a couple of suspensions here and there, believe it or not, Down Under. And Greg Murray, who signed me, he got the sack at the end of that year. So I knew I'd not had a great year. I knew it was a bit up and down, so I didn't know where I stood. So then back in the UK, I had to phone Ricky Stewart, who was now the new coach. And I had to say, "Look, do you want me to come over?"
Barrie McDermott:
Did you phone him?
Adrian Morley:
I phoned him.
Barrie McDermott:
That's a big one, that, isn't it, for a player who's been injured and suspended to feel the need to say, "Am I still okay?"
Adrian Morley:
Well, I had two years on my contract and he was glad I rang him, but he was a bit shocked. "No need to ring me. You're in my plans, we want you back over here." So I went back over and the second year, it just clicked. I got used to living away from home. I got used to the way my teammates played, they got used to the way I played. And the second year was plain sailing then.
Barrie McDermott:
There was a shift in mentality. Physically, you had to develop, you had to be alongside them and then in time, overtake them. And I find that fascinating that you felt the need to ring him up, because I'm sure lesser players would've just thought, "I'll wait until he knocks on my door."
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, no, it was good because it sort of broke down. I mean, I'd never met him before. It was good to have a proper catch up with him. And he said, "I'll see you when you get here." And I got on with him famously. He's probably my favorite coach I had, he was fantastic. You forget how young he was. He was only 35.
Barrie McDermott:
I played against him.
Adrian Morley:
Oh, did you? Right. Well, I don't think you'll see any coach in Super League or NRL, getting a coaching position there at just 35. And he was great because he'd only finished playing recently. He knew what the players wanted and needed. And win or lose-
Barrie McDermott:
Have a booze!
Adrian Morley:
He did. Oh, yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
He liked it.
Adrian Morley:
Rugby League. But no, he did like it. And he thought there's a place for it. And I still think there is a place for bonding and that kind of thing, but he won with you, he lost with you and we had a bit of success under Ricky Stewart.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah. And I think you talked about it in one of our other podcasts. Brian stood up, Brian McDermott stood up to Gary Etherington. I just want to take it back to injuries. I'm sure we'll do a deep dive on injuries, but injuries are part and parcel of what you do, isn't it? When you're talking about a big shift, unless you've got a career ending injury, most of the time you're getting over it. Was there a particular injury that you can remember that you thought, "This might be it?"
Shaun Lunt:
When you're in that professional environment, I've had a couple of shoulder operations, I've had groins chopped off, I've had ankle surgeries and whatnot, but I've been very fortunate, touch wood, to not have the real career ending injuries. Apart from when I got an illness from an injury, I got sepsis. And so I ended up in hospital for two weeks, and then I was a further six week at home, having a recovery, and that was the time when I was at Hull KR. So that's when I thought that maybe that was my time. But thankfully, like I say, I had to go back to everything I've ever learned.
Had to go back to square one, so I learn how to walk again, go back to the basics. I couldn't walk upstairs without getting out of breath and whatnot. And then going from being a tough rugby player, mentally strong, physically strong, to going to what I thought was my rock bottom and then building myself back up and getting back on the pitch, it took a lot from me, but I learned a lot from it as well. And like I said, everything how I've attacked life, effort, hard work, it got me back on the pitch.
Barrie McDermott:
Would you have used those skills? Because we pick up a set of skills as sportsmen that we try and take into the transition. And it's a daunting, frightening, scary period of all our lives. But were the things that you took from that experience, fearing that it was almost over, to prepare yourself for transition?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah. Again, going into something new, it's anything that you're doing, whether it's going somewhere for the first time, going to a new club, starting a new job, you're going to get them feelings, aren't you? They're all the same, it's the same sort of process.
Barrie McDermott:
And how did you approach that?
Shaun Lunt:
For me was just getting there, work hard, sure, willing to work hard. There's no substitute for hard work. Be open. And again, we've talked about criticism and learned from it as well, not to take it to heart and sort of sulk in the corner if someone says, "Oh, you're doing this wrong, you're doing that wrong." You've got to really dig deep and use it as a challenge, turn it into a challenge that I want to win. Because again, we all wanted to win, didn't we? We all want to win, nobody likes losing. So to flip that into that sort of rugby mentality and go forward.
Barrie McDermott:
And Moz, injuries are part and parcel. You can't get away from being injured. If you're not getting injured, there's a theory to say you're not doing it properly.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, you're right. And I mentioned the second year I was there, it was plain sailing. It was and it wasn't. The first 10 games were fantastic. I'd got used to living away from home, as I say, but then there was this constant niggling pain in me back and then the back to my legs. We tried everything, stretching, deep massage, epidural, nothing would sort this pain out, so the last option was surgery. So I went in and the surgeon said, "Look, I know what's the problem. We need to do a laminectomy."
That's where they trim around the vertebrae to free up the nerve." And he said that'll solve it. He said, "There's a 90% chance of success, everything will be fine. There's a 9% chance it won't be a success. You'll have pain in the backs of your legs forever." And I said, "Well, I'm no mathematician, but that's only 99%." He said, "Oh yeah, there's a 1% chance something will go wrong and you'll lose the use of your legs." But he said, "Don't worry, no one's ever lost their legs on my watch." Anyway-
Barrie McDermott:
Cheers for that.
Adrian Morley:
So I just thought, "I hope he stays off the drink the night before he does the surgery." But touch wood, since having the surgery, as soon as I come around, he said it went well. Anyway, it was great after that, but I was only 25 at the time. And to be told it could be your career gone, 90%, it's a great stat but it's still 10% chance that it won't work. Anyway, it went well. But since there was about a nine week recovery after that, but then when I did come back, we didn't lose a game then.
Barrie McDermott:
And in those periods of you're either out of the team, you've had to move clubs or you're suffering injury, you need to learn from the people around you, you need the support of people around you. Can you think of people who, particularly when you were coming back, were encouraging you in that working team environment?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, so it was actually when I was here and it was a guy called Fats. And Fats was a part of the coaching staff at Leeds at the time.
Adrian Morley:
Player welfare, train counselor.
Shaun Lunt:
Bit of everything really, wasn't he?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, and a good ear to talk to.
Shaun Lunt:
Absolutely brilliant. And I still say to this day, he pretty much nearly saved my life because everything, my life was rugby. And he was someone that I could speak to and he understood what I was going through, how I was dealing with things, going through the stress that I was going through, the coping mechanisms that I was doing. And yeah, they weren't the right ones, but that was the only thing I knew how to do. And Fats took me to one side and said, "Listen, Shaun, it's okay. We'll deal with it, we'll sort it out." And like I say, he's given me the tools now to be able to deal with things now so every time that I go through a tough part, tough period in life, I fall back on those tools.
Barrie McDermott:
I'm going to get those tools off you in second. But most teammates, support network, it's really important, especially when you're in those low times.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, it is. And the beauty of Rugby League is you've got 25 best mates there, haven't you? And they're all very supportive and helpful. I did struggle a little bit when I was in Australia. I never got injured in the UK, but when I was in Aussie, I had two major injuries, a broken arm and a back operation. So teammates were great, but I had a network of mates over there who were away from Rugby League. My best mate, Carlo, he come over, so he was always there or thereabouts. There was a couple of my older brother Steve's mates living in Cudgee where I lived, so I knocked about with them.
And it was a bit of a hotbed for British. When English go over backpacking, that kind of thing, there was always English people around. So I did know quite a few people there away from the sport, which is, as I say, pretty important as well. So the club were great, the players were great. And as I say, I had a few English mates there. So between everyone, I got the support and help I needed and thankfully, both injuries were ones that you could come back from.
Barrie McDermott:
I want to put those skills under the spotlight now. We've talked about support network, we've talked about people inside and outside the game, getting around you. Ultimately, it's down to you and those tools that you've got to keep you on track. What are the things that you think have helped you over your period of time in and out of the game?
Adrian Morley:
Certainly in the game, my work, I think as I mentioned, I used to train as hard as I possibly could. And if I weren't good enough on game day, I know it's nothing I've done or nothing that I couldn't have done more in terms of my preparation and my fitness. Off the field, a happy player off the field is one who performs on the weekend, so spending time with your family or relaxing. It's just as important to relax and get into the right head space as it is to do the physical stuff on the field. So getting that balance and then it's all about game day. It's all about winning at the end of the day. As you can prepare yourself as well as you can, give yourself a chance.,There's no reason why you can't get them two points.
Barrie McDermott:
And it's got to be pretty universal amongst us three and every bloke that spent any time in sport, that it's about hard work. But ultimately, that hard work in this environment, in the work environment, is about training and up-skilling and developing yourself. Because if you understand the industry knowledge, in any working environment with the character, the personality and the ability to learn and evolve will get you top of the tree.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, exactly. And that's, again, going back on when you're a kid and you're coming into the Rugby League, you've got to learn things, you've got to be open, you've got to get to know people, got to know your teammates and everything. And then that's exactly the same scenario when you're moving into a different role in the working industry. With rugby, you're in that bubble and when you come out of rugby, you can't talk like we talk in the changing rooms, can we? Because-
Barrie McDermott:
It's one of the biggest adjustments for Civvy Street. We've talked about it off camera, off mic here. Getting used to where the line is, it's a big adjustment, isn't it?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah. Some of the stuff that happened in the changing room, if I go and do that in the workplace, I'd be locked up. So yeah, and that's just, we call it banter. It's just that the normal thing is-
Barrie McDermott:
It's offensive, it's not banter. It's offensive. But surely the people around you and the people, when you make the transition into that work environment, you surround yourself with the right people, you get the right support, you get the right advice. And you're smart. You're intelligent enough to be able to understand where the line is, because if you weren't intelligent, you wouldn't have been successful out there.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, exactly. And that's why I played nine and not a prop forward like yous two. I was the one giving yous the ball, running in. So yeah, exactly, it's one of those things. You've got to be smart and you've got to adapt and adjust to other people as well. And again, going back into Civvy Street as we call it, is that you've got to take other peoples' feelings into account and you can't just not like a bull in a China shop.
Barrie McDermott:
I just want to explore one topic and I'm talking to myself as much as you two. As kids at school, I know my own personal experience, I wasn't an academic kid. So when it come time post-career to start learning, I went to a university up the road, Leeds Beckett it's called now, Leeds Carnegie at the time. And I had to sit in a classroom and was intimidated and felt vulnerable and felt like I was out of my depth, but you had to have the attitude to learning, training, up-skilling that we had on the part there. What was your, I would say school life like learning, compared to your post-career life like learning?
Adrian Morley:
To be fair, and you might be surprised, I was quite, like academic, I was quite a smart kid in school.
Barrie McDermott:
What happened?
Adrian Morley:
Well-
Shaun Lunt:
I am surprised.
Barrie McDermott:
Did you lose all the brain cells on the pitch?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, I got it knocked out of me playing rugby. Yeah, exactly. Well, no, in terms of, I was quite happy. Before becoming professional, I was happy to be an apprentice electrician. And to get any trade, that was the northern thing to do. So I had it in my head I was going to be an electrician for my working days. When I was still playing, there was help from the Rugby League grants and things like that and training coach. I did a level one and two in personal training, but again, that was going back into the classroom environment.
And I enjoyed it because it was physical, it was something I enjoyed. I used to love PE in school, so it was similar to that. And plus, I'd been a pro rugby player for 15 years, so I knew a thing or two about fitness, so that was enjoyable. But in terms of, I know Jamie Peacock and Sinni, them people, they did degrees. I couldn't see myself doing a degree, but I'm certainly not scared of going back and learning if it'll benefit me and me working life.
Barrie McDermott:
Lunty?
Shaun Lunt:
I've actually got a degree. I've got a master's degree in sports directorship that I got from-
Barrie McDermott:
Was you a good student or have you learned how to learn?
Shaun Lunt:
No, I wasn't a good student at school. I just didn't have the attention span. I used to be that-
Barrie McDermott:
I always think with school, I'm sorry to interrupt, I always think with school, they've got one way of teaching everyone.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
If you don't connect with that way, then you're sat at the back. So you obviously, as a later in life learner, you understood what you needed to absorb the information and that's what got you to your masters. Good on you.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, so when I went and got that, but it was probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. My head was physically sore, writing a dissertation and whatnot, it was so tough. But again, it took that grit, that determination that you get from playing rugby. You go back to the days where you're doing a preseason and you're doing Malcolms and you're doing coat hangers, one of the hardest things, but you just got to get your head down and get through it.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah. And everyone talks about fight or flight, don't they? There's freeze as well, isn't it?
Shaun Lunt:
Yes.
Barrie McDermott:
Where you overanalyze stuff because you don't want to make a mistake. So last question on this topic, what advice would you have for anybody that's transitioning from one environment to another, from one role to another, from one job to another?
Shaun Lunt:
Don't be scared. And it's okay to be scared as well, in the same sentence, that you're going to feel them nerves. You're going to feel that fight or flight or freeze, you're going to feel them, but embrace the feeling and look at it as a new challenge in life. That's what I'm doing now. There was Shaun Lunt, the rugby player, but looking back now, I retired at 32, I was a rugby player for 16 years. Hopefully I'm going to be on this planet another 50 years, so there's still a lot more living to go and-
Barrie McDermott:
Keep going to Turkey, you'll look as young as ever.
Shaun Lunt:
Well, that's the plan. I'm going for my passport next week, so I should be all right. But yeah, just literally just throw yourself into it, be open and embrace the challenge.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah, Moz, a younger student or a younger player, academy player, or a player coming out of the game is asking you for advice. What would you tell him?
Adrian Morley:
Just, I agree with Lunty. Just go at it with enthusiasm and open mind, but trying to do a bit of research as well. I know when I went to Australia, I just literally jumped on a plane, got there and I thought, "Right, where am I living? What's the healthcare," stuff like that. If I'd have got all this information before, it would've made my job a lot easier. So try and get the help. And as I say, get as much information as you can about that environment, about that job or about that club, and then that certainly will help you.
Barrie McDermott:
Look at the tip sheet, study the game plan, look at your opposition. Where have we heard that before?
Adrian Morley:
Yes, exactly.
Barrie McDermott:
Let's just summarize. Got some takeaways for our audience. Challenges can be intimidating, so talk us through your attitude on how you deal with fear.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah. Well, you play a team, there's a bit of a fear factor there. You step up, due into the first team. Again, you're nervous, you're feeling anxiety playing international again. So every one of these step up in levels, for me, there was an element of doubt, there was an element of fear. But then the more time you spend in that environment, the more used to it you get. And then you think back after a bit of experience, say, "Why was I nervous? Why was I worried?"
So my advice would be just someone thinks you're worthy of that, you should think you're worthy of yourself, give yourself back yourself. And try not to get worried if it's a job change or you're going to the other side of the world, something like that. Embrace the change. Try and do as much research and get as much information as you can on the new place you're going, and then that will be great. And that will hopefully make it an easy transition to go through.
Barrie McDermott:
Lunty, change, challenges. Those little wobbles in your mind, how did you deal with them?
Shaun Lunt:
Again, well, I had plenty of wobbles in my mind, to be fair. I had a wobble about doing this podcast at first, but again, it's like anything, it's the fear of something new. But again, I looked at it as a positive, looking forward coming here, sat with two people that I looked up to as a kid, watched you on TV.
Barrie McDermott:
God bless you.
Shaun Lunt:
And now I'm a rose between two thorns. But no, again, it's something new and I have the same feelings now doing this and what I did on the rugby pitch or asking your first girlfriend out. It's all the same, but you can't conquer that fear unless you do it. It's a bit like courage. It's a weirdo world where you don't get the courage until after you've done it. And so you have to go through it and you have to just take the rough with the smooth. It's not going to be easy.
Barrie McDermott:
And big men and important people all suffer at some point. They have that wobble and we term it as mental health. I probably look at it as how do you maintain your mental fitness?
Shaun Lunt:
Yes. And the same, mental fitness, you're putting that spin on it again, putting it into more sporting sort of dynamic. And it's so important to have people to talk to and talk to with an open mind. I've touched on how big Fats was for me at the Rhinos, being opening and allowing me-
Barrie McDermott:
Let's give him a name check.
Shaun Lunt:
Nigel O'Flattery. And he allowed me to be vulnerable. And again, as an alpha male on a rugby team, you don't want to be vulnerable. That's the last thing you want to show, any vulnerability, but it's absolutely fine to do, so be comfortable doing it. And through that vulnerability, you'll grow.
Barrie McDermott:
And Moz, how do you maintain your mental fitness?
Adrian Morley:
Well, for me personally, I think there's a massive focus on your physical health as a knock-on effect for your mental health. So when I finished playing, I took three or four months off training and I just felt awful. And once I started back training, it helped me mentally. And now I love training, love the routine. When I don't train, I feel a bit guilty. So I don't train every day, but most days I train. And just for that, I don't train for long, half an hour. I try and get it done before my working day. Just for that half hour, that's me happy place and then I'm set for the day then. So I think that's a great tool to have. If you've got the ability to go to the gym or to work out, I think it's fantastic for your mental health.
Barrie McDermott:
We've talked before about the small steps to progress, we've talked about the 10,000 hours, but tell us about your approach to the whole process of success or progress.
Adrian Morley:
Well, when I was a professional, you obviously do what the coaches and the strength and conditioners guys tell you to do. But if you do extras, that gives you a little bit of an edge, in my opinion. So since day one, you do what the coaches tell you to do, but then the next day you're trying to be better and then you're setting goals. "I want to be in the first team, I want to play for England, I want to play for Great Britain." So you've got to challenge yourself at every level, but you've also got to put the work in and try and be the best version of yourself you can.
Shaun Lunt:
For me, getting to the end result is a byproduct of doing other little things right. So for me, I always look at the next step, so the next job in hand. Again, we take it back to rugby. Back in 2013 when we won the league at Huddersfield, we broke the full season down into four blocks games, four block games, four block games. So if we win three out of the four games, we've obviously won three, lost one or maybe drawn one. And then the week after or the next block of four, we try and do better. And obviously, we broke it down.
So we're not looking at it as a whole thing, trying to win the league, we're trying to win these little mini leagues. And together, they had opened the building blocks throughout the season. Then as a collective, you've got all them points, you've got all them wins and we're sat at the top of the table. And that's what I've taken into my life now. I'm not looking down at 50-year-old me now, I'm looking at 38-year-old me. "What can I do today to make tomorrow a bit, not easier, but better and how I'll become better?"
Barrie McDermott:
And basically, we never stop learning, do we?
Adrian Morley:
No, you don't stop learning. Every day is a school day. They say, "What don't kill you makes you stronger," and you're learning from all these experiences. The older you get, doesn't mean you stop, Barrie, no.
Barrie McDermott:
And it's that game of snakes and ladders, again, repeating something I said on a previous episode. As soon as you get to the top of something, you know at some point you're going to have to start again and start learning again. It's that approach to learning that separates people who've been in sport.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, again. And separates the other great ones as well. Going back to Kev Sinfield, he was the back end of his career, but he was the first one at training and he was the last one at training and he'd be kicking goals, kicking goals. And I used to sit there and just watch him. And then I'd probably become comfortable later on in my career. I was happy with what I've achieved. And that's probably why I sort of slipped off and went down the leagues, where Kev, he stopped at the very pinnacle of Ruby League. He went off on a high, and that's the difference probably between myself and Kev, that he embraced learning and he was a student of life, as you can see, and kept learning.
Barrie McDermott:
And learning is part of life. It doesn't stop when you get to the top of whatever where you are, you're going to eventually have to learn something else. So just in summary of what we've covered, we've got covered courage when you have to deal with challenges and fear, getting courageous through that process. Having the right approach to the small steps to progress day by day, bit by bit, brick by brick.
Also, keeping your mental fitness nice and strong, reaching out to people, getting the elements of your life right. And then if one's failing, the others compensate for that. And then lastly, you never stop learning. Another great episode, gents, thanks for joining me. We've talked today about upping your game. I think some of you need to up your haircut game. I think there's a little discrepancy here. Have you got any advice for me?
Shaun Lunt:
Yes. Mine used to be like Moz's until I went to Turkey and had a few thousand hair graphs. And Moz, I've got a number if you like. Yeah.
Adrian Morley:
Well, I'm always open to suggestions, but what are you trying to say?
Barrie McDermott:
Well, we were thinking of if this was a film and we were characters in a film.
Shaun Lunt:
If this is a film set, I reckon we've got George Clooney.
Barrie McDermott:
George Clooney, yes.
Shaun Lunt:
Brad Pitt.
Barrie McDermott:
Obviously.
Shaun Lunt:
And Jason Statham.
Adrian Morley:
I thought you were going to say Trigger.
Barrie McDermott:
Jason Statham, the haircut.
Adrian Morley:
Oh, I get it. Yeah, nice little dig there.
Shaun Lunt:
Don't dig me back.
Barrie McDermott:
Thank you all for joining us. Hope you enjoyed another edition of Changing Rooms. Thanks to our good friends at Elect. As always, like, subscribe and join us soon.