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Every day you have a choice. You can wake up and choose to give in to mediocrity and complacency, you can choose bad habits and poor choices, and you can do the bare minimum to get by and fly under the radar. Or you can choose to make today the day that sets you apart from the crowd, you can choose to start doing the right things, the things that will set you up for success. You can choose to create a life that is worth living, worth waking up to, and worth sharing with the world around you. Today You can choose to start with a win.
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Speaker 1
it's that science of applied pressure actually creates better results.
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Speaker 1
without trust, honest feedback is dead.
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Speaker 1
There's so many teams where the meeting happens after the meeting,
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Unknown
Welcome to start with a win where we unpack franchising, leadership and business growth. Let's go.
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Speaker 2
Coming to you from start with Win headquarters at area 15 ventures is atom contest will start with a win. Have you ever found yourself grappling with how to inspire and unite your team effectively? Today I start with a win. We're diving into the art of team building with someone who's been there, done that, and written the book on it, literally.
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Speaker 2
Meet Scott Albrecht, vice president of learning and development at Service Star Consulting. With a career spanning from spearheading sales and service initiatives to becoming a sought after speaker and trainer for credit unions across the US and Canada.
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Speaker 2
Scott's passion for cultivating cohesive teams is unmatched. And speaking of books, he coauthored Hierarchy of Team Needs with Doctor Elliot Jardin, a cognitive neuroscientist at Miami University. Blending decades of leadership experience with the science of motivation, get ready to glean actionable insights that can elevate your team dynamics to new heights. If you're ready to unlock the secrets of building a thriving team, Scott's got you covered.
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Speaker 2
Scott, welcome to start with a win.
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Speaker 2
It's so great being here I enjoy this I enjoy. Start with the win and all that you guys are about. So it's an honor to be here.
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Speaker 1
Awesome. And every time you and I talk, we just totally geek out over leadership and team building and creating greater places for all of us in that excellence realm. And I really want to dig into that today. I want to dig into your book. the hierarchy of team needs and I mean, just this is going to be an exciting podcast.
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Speaker 1
So everybody put it in your head, listen to it, take some notes and take some action based on what you're hearing today. Because we are going to unpack some serious leadership and team building here. So first of all, Scott, tell us about yourself.
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Speaker 2
Yeah. The your intro was really good. I don't know what I could add. to that. Maybe the fact that I'm a I'm a dad. Right. And so, my team needs are met when you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs for a person, it's sharing a cup of coffee with a friend under a roof that's in a safe environment.
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Speaker 2
Right. Like that I feel love, I feel connection, I feel self-actualization, I'm safe. mentally, I'm at a good place because I'm with people that care for me. And so, I love relationships, so that's, you know, whether it's with my wife as a spouse, with my kids, as a dad. and I'm a big relationships guy.
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Speaker 2
That's how you and I got a chance to connect, was was through a mutual relationship. And so that's that's a little bit about me. I've been on team USA, so I've ice fish across the pond. I've been in Ukraine, Latvia, Bulgaria, fishing for our country. And, I'd say that's the that's the stuff that doesn't hit the resume, but it's it's fun stuff about me.
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Speaker 1
Awesome. Fishing for a purpose. I guess you really can't argue with that. If you're into fishing. And, I mean, just it's it's a good place to to find yourself. So let's let's jump right into this because you and I are both really into serious leadership and team development. I mean, we we run businesses, we grow leaders. You know, you leaders are not born.
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Speaker 1
They are made. And it's it's through that constant growth every single day. And it involves a great deal of teamwork. But it really all comes back to what your book is about. This hierarchy of needs and ultimately the hierarchy of team needs. So, I'm a big fan of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and I know you are as well, which is why you wrote the book around this.
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Speaker 1
So why don't you give us what is it from your perspective? What is Maslow's Hierarchy of needs in order for us to transition and how this applies to teams?
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Speaker 2
Yeah, it's a Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It talks about the basic need. first, where you're going to be fed, you'll have shelter. you'll have clothes, you'll be able to you know, live safely. Right. So safety is a part of the basic needs. Then it goes on to, the psychological needs. so the ability to, live, communicate, have friends, which moves on to the third the need of of of of care, which is having, a love and companionship and, having a greater understanding of of how am I loved, how do I belong, a sense of belonging, which then moves you up into esteem, having good self
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Speaker 2
esteem. What what story do I tell about myself? and then that gets you to that. That last piece, the top of the pyramid, the the peak, if you will, which is self-actualization. And this is where if they were to write a book about me, the end of the day for Barack Obama, it might be he was the first black president.
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Speaker 2
Right. it could be that I was the best dad that I could be. And that's my self-actualization. I was I was born to be the best dad that I could be. And so as I'm in that being a dad mode, I'm being self-actualized as that dad. And so, the last part is kind of reflective. the fourth part is kind of in the moment, and it takes some of those steps to get to the fourth and the fifth.
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Speaker 2
You can't get to the fourth without the third. and so there's work for yourself in each one of those steps.
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Speaker 1
And we and we can't even begin to think about this if all we're trying to do is put food on the table or make a paycheck right at the bottom, that's peace. you know, and obviously the very beginning of it, I think Maslow originally described this as, okay, you're in a cave and there's things outside that cave that can eat you, but you have to go out there to get to make fire, to get food to, to be able to survive, get water.
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Speaker 1
But, you know, we we want to live at the top because that means we fulfilled those other needs. So what made you want to put this into a team framework where you look at team members? How how did you come up with that theory?
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Speaker 2
So the the missing piece for me was motivation. So what what motivates somebody to want to move from one phase of Maslow's hierarchy of needs to the next? And we bought a sauna. And what motivated us to buy a sauna? Well, we wanted to put our bodies through pressure because my wife says family history is one that dementia is a likely realistic thing that she's going to have to maybe face.
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Speaker 2
And one of the studies shows that if you put your body through enough pressure that actually gives you a better shot of not having dementia when you age. And so we bought a sauna for the strict purpose of putting our body through pressure. And so I was having a cup of coffee in Phenix, Arizona, and I was thinking about this applied pressure and, and just kind of the overall view of stress in the workplace.
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Speaker 2
And it hit me. That's the answer. That's that's the missing piece. So for for Maslow, the hierarchy of needs is perfect. If I'm just working on myself and I think every leader should start their work on yourself first. Right. So where are you? Are you getting good sleep? That's part of the basic needs, right? Are you taking care of your body?
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Speaker 2
That's that's part of the basic needs are how's your diet? That's that's part of the basic needs as a leader, we got to be sleeping well. We got to be eating well. We got to be get some physical activity. And, that's how we help ourselves. But then when you take it to the team, the missing piece is the motivation.
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Speaker 2
So how do I how do I get my team to sleep well and I don't like I, I can't go into their, their bedrooms and set their alarm clock and be like, this is really going to be really good for you. and by the way, lights out at nine. Okay. I, you know, as a team leader, there's going to be there's got to be some different dynamics to how we get somebody to grow through that hierarchy.
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Speaker 2
And what I found was it's the applied pressure. I brought in Doctor Elliot Jardine, who is, researcher at Miami University. And, it's that science of applied pressure actually creates better results. Imagine a week where you've got nothing to do, zero things to do. How productive do you think you're going to be in a week that you've got nothing to do?
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Speaker 2
Well, the answer in your mind probably is, oh, I can I can get anything done. I have a whole week. I could write a book, but without applied pressure very little gets done. And so this the science of putting your your body through pressure for better results also equates into the team room, where when we add pressure to every layer of the team needs, we actually can move ourselves up through the organization.
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Speaker 2
So I love to expound upon the book. If you'd give me the the window to do so, because I think we can we can kind of attack each layer as a team as well.
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Speaker 1
Okay, absolutely. Yeah, I want to dig into that. But I do want to ask you a question about pressure, because it seems like over the course of the past decade, we've kind of become an anti pressure when it comes to how we raise kids, how we treat people, things like that. You know, these, these people going, oh, you're too aggressive with me or that, that that's triggering or I can't handle this pressure.
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Speaker 1
I mean, everybody started labeling pressure stress, tension, overwhelm, things like that as being a bad thing. But I mean, I like after I graduated high school, I joined the Marines. You went to Marine Corps boot camp, and guess what? They applied, crushing a dump truck full of pressure on you every moment. And they wanted to try and see if you would break.
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Speaker 1
But. But ultimately, it seems like we can convince ourselves that we can outlast our bodies. Are we always let our bodies quit before our minds can quit? And ultimately, that's the opposite of what's true. I mean, you you can push your body way further than your mind thinks you can. So I mean that I love this pressure piece because we should be looking for pressure.
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Speaker 1
Well, pressure. You really have no purpose. Like what you said. What that week. So it doesn't give you a direction, but. Yeah. Okay. Take me into the book. You've got several sections in this book. Let's, let's go through some of those. where do we start with how to understand how the, the hierarchy applies to teams.
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Speaker 2
Yeah. So back to your point on pressure. Right. So, I did pushups this morning. I did not want to do push ups this morning. My brain the entire time was telling me, you've done enough push ups this morning. And one of the tactics that the Navy Seals use is to think about your breathing in moments where your body is telling your brain, I've had enough.
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Speaker 2
And and the frontal cortex is so important here, because if you just focus on something else, you can achieve more. So if I'm focusing on the pain that the push ups are causing, then I will do less push ups. But if I focus on breathing, I will do more push ups. And so where the teams brain goes impacts performance.
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Speaker 2
So let's take that to the team realm, the very bottom of the needs. We haven't changed anything, Maslow says. Basic needs are there. We've got basic needs there. But in the book, what's basic for a team is different than what basic for an individual, right? Like, I'm I'm not bringing breakfast to work every day and I'm not right.
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Speaker 2
Like we do pay our team. And so there's a there's a place for appropriate pay. But the book doesn't get into compensation. And the benefits that we should provide, the team, what it gets into is how to build a great team. It's a team building book and the foundation of team building. If you go to Patrick Lee in Yoshi's Five Dysfunctions of a team is building trust.
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Speaker 2
And so what's that applied pressure. Well, it's conversations around applying the frontal cortex on the in vulnerabilities and the vulnerabilities of the people working there. So what does in vulnerability look like? Well, Adam, you come in every day pretty cheery. And one day you come in and it looks like you just got done crying. Everyone can see you just got done crying.
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Speaker 2
And we ask Adam, how are you doing today? And you say, fine, and you walk away. And what you just did is you just built a wall between yourself and another human being. What you just built is in vulnerability. And I'm. I'm not vulnerable. I'm invulnerable. I'm, I'm I'm putting a wall up between me and you, and that destroys trust.
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Speaker 2
So when we build that first layer of the hierarchy of team needs, it's a basic need, but it's trust. And everything else in the hierarchy builds off of that. And that applied pressure is doing things on purpose to be vulnerable. Patrick. Lena, Yoshi. When he wrote his book of Five Dysfunctions of a team, he got asked to go to a lot of companies and talk about the book.
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Speaker 2
So many, in fact, that he didn't actually have the bandwidth to schedule. You get this. You've been there. you can't go everywhere that they ask you to go, right? And so, he wrote the Five Dysfunctions field guide and he said, hey, this is exactly this is what we would deploy if we got asked to go to a company.
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Speaker 2
This is step one. We're going to do a personality assessment. You name your flavor of the month, discuss Myers-Briggs strengths. We don't care what you use, but we do care that you reduce this in vulnerability in the workplace. And you break it down and you make things more vulnerable. And so in the book, we talk about the first step being let's make sure that we're doing something, intentionally applying pressure on that first layer to get others to know others on the team.
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Speaker 2
If you don't know me, you don't trust me. And if you don't trust me, you're not going to follow me. And so in leadership, it's really, really important for your team members to know you. Now, there's a such thing as too vulnerable to like, hey guys, I think my marriage is falling apart. Might be crossing the line. Right.
00:14:20:19 - 00:14:27:14
Speaker 2
And so there's, there's there's a line there. And so the book expounds upon what is appropriate vulnerability look like in the workplace.
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Speaker 1
Awesome. Now it's interesting because like I view trust is like a bank account. And you have to continue to deposit into that. And sometimes you make withdrawals. Sometimes they're unintentional massive withdrawals. But you never want to go bankrupt with that trust. You never want to violate the rule of taking more trust out of the relationship than you put into that relationship.
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Speaker 1
And sometimes you test the waters with you know what you say you you mentioned that before, you know, with the merge statement, things like that. But I love how you guys lead trust into that next level, because trust I mean, it's like it almost fades gradually into something. It's not necessarily a light switch, but let's get into the next level after trust because I love where this is going because we're starting to build accountability now.
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Speaker 1
So yeah, take me to the next level.
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Speaker 2
So so when when I know that you've got my back, I know more about you. I can I can follow your lead probably into someplace that I've never even been before. I can probably find you in a place that you've never been for. Then I can I can be honest with you. You can be honest with me. It opens up that next layer.
00:15:42:07 - 00:16:06:20
Speaker 2
So layer two of the hierarchy of team needs is this layer where we can provide honest feedback, fear of conflict isn't so strong in that second layer, where I'm afraid that if I say something honest, you're going to use it against me, or if I or if I say something honest, you're going to you're going to take that and spin it into something else and say in a way that I didn't mean it for, because you don't get, you don't get me.
00:16:06:20 - 00:16:27:17
Speaker 2
I don't trust you. You don't trust me. So without trust, honest feedback is dead. Without trust. This this fear of conflict overcomes us being able to say, Adam, I like the direction of your idea. And given my experience, I think there's some tweaks that we need to make to it to be able to move forward without trust. I don't say that in the meeting.
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Speaker 2
I say, Adam, that's a great idea. And then after the meeting, I have the meeting after the meeting where I say Adam's idea is horrible. Did you guys think that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, we hated it too. But we all said it was great in the meeting and said, so now we got a we start to see that Five Dysfunctions of a team starting to play out in real life.
00:16:46:16 - 00:17:08:10
Speaker 2
And so applied pressure and honest feedback is one in which we create an iterative loop of feedback. And or a loop of feedback starts from day one. Listen. It's an expectation setting where I say, hey, welcome to our team. we're going to on a regular basis, ask for feedback. Like you're going to have peers asking for feedback.
00:17:08:14 - 00:17:25:06
Speaker 2
I'm going to ask you for feedback. We're going to and then we're going to we're going to give you we're going to provide you feedback. And I don't want you to be scared of feedback. Feedback is a gift. And that of changing the frontal cortex. Again a push up is a gift. Feedback is a gift. Building trust is a gift.
00:17:25:06 - 00:17:45:18
Speaker 2
These are all good things, but they are uncomfortable. Some people might say that the book is common sense. I'd say it makes sense and it's so uncommon. There's so many teams where the meeting happens. After the meeting, it's because we didn't work on layer one and layer two of the book. Hierarchy of team needs.
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Speaker 1
Okay, so you and I were talking before about A, B and C players. You know, what's interesting is and I actually gave a keynote on this last week about, you know, a players hierarchy, players B players higher C players because C players never want to breach that trust boundary and get into honest feedback. And it's fascinating when when we look at and ultimately C players are those that are, they're highly disengaged.
00:18:15:07 - 00:18:41:22
Speaker 1
If you look at Gallup's surveys and highly disengaged as they're they're miserable. They don't want to do the job. And they'll they're telling everybody that behind everybody's backs usually. So there's like this, this black market of distrust in and just angst in the organization and, and ultimately, you know, and by the way folks, and I'm going to be doing a lot more on this here, in the near future.
00:18:42:00 - 00:19:05:19
Speaker 1
we're at the highest level of disengagement in history in the workforce. It's it's horrible. So, I mean, this this timing couldn't be better for Scott's information because we have to understand not just that we need to build more engagement, build more trust in the. But we have to know how to get people up the, hierarchy of team needs here in order to be more successful, more productive in our businesses.
00:19:05:21 - 00:19:28:15
Speaker 1
So, take me through, you know, how do we know when we have that ability to keep moving people up here? We're giving honest feedback. you know, you mentioned a couple of examples of this. What is what is a good outcome to honest feedback look like to move us further up the chain.
00:19:28:17 - 00:19:47:21
Speaker 2
And some people might say buy in. I'd say buying is a bankrupt term, because there's a difference between buying and engagement. Right. So I can buy in to ending world hunger. But the second you asked me to donate $100 out of my paycheck every Friday to end world hunger is that's the difference between buying an engagement.
00:19:47:21 - 00:20:08:20
Speaker 2
And engagement comes with action. Right. And so that that third layer is one where we build engagement because we have buy in to the truths that were revealed in the second layer. So like if we have a meeting and we use language in the most constructive manner, constructive, by the way, is a coin is a negative term constructive in its actual proper sense?
00:20:08:20 - 00:20:32:09
Speaker 2
Is it's constructing something. Right. So the gift of human language is you have an idea and you share it with me. And I say, thank you, Adam. And have you thought about this? And you say, thank you, Scott. I haven't thought about that. And but what about this? And we and that back and forth allows us to now when we say, hey, these are the marching orders.
00:20:32:11 - 00:20:55:08
Speaker 2
There's buy in and and again finds a broken term. So let's just change that and say there's engagement. There's people taking action on the marching orders because we had the room to openly discuss share feedback. And yeah, I get it, leaders. There's two votes in the room and you got both votes, right, everyone, as I say, not everyone gets their way.
00:20:55:10 - 00:21:16:14
Speaker 2
But when we can facilitate a forum, in which case every voice is heard, you've been heard. And here's the marching orders, then it's a lot easier to then hold people accountable because there's, there's a, there's a greater good that's being achieved as a result of the conversations that we had as a result of us going back and forth on the this idea.
00:21:16:16 - 00:21:37:21
Speaker 2
We're not trying to build consensus. Some would say consensus is the absence of leadership, but we are trying to make sure that we've got well vetted out ideas. We're not trying to throw something against the wall and seeing if it's going to stick. And when you when you have well vetted out ideas that have been shared, collaborated on and then we go and then we make our decision, that's where that's where accountability can live.
00:21:38:11 - 00:21:40:04
Speaker 1
And that's where you start to see engagement.
00:21:40:04 - 00:22:00:09
Speaker 1
Wow. This is some great information from Scott coming at us. I'd like to remind you. Go to Adam contos.com. Check out the leadership factory. a great new leadership program that I just introduced contains a lot of information about Maslow's hierarchy of needs and how to build your leadership to build great teams. This is a two part episode.
00:22:00:09 - 00:22:10:05
Speaker 1
This is the end of the first part. Make sure you check out the second part with Scott, where we dig into the rest of the hierarchy of team needs. With Scott Albrecht on start with a win. We'll catch you next time.