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Record Live is a conversation about life, spirituality and following Jesus in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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βAnd welcome back to Record Live. It's a little bit of a lie. We're not actually live today. We've had to pre record because I'm going to be, staying home with my kids for a couple of days while my wife jet sets around the country. So , We've had to squeeze it in earlier in the week, but we are coming to you live and we are happy wherever you're watching this, that you're joining us or listening to this on our podcast Zanita the podcast is going strong.
How many countries have we had listened to us so far?
I think we've hit 15 countries now. So we've got some good listeners around the world, and it's great to be able to use different platforms to reach different people. We're excited about today's conversation because it's a little different.
We have two guests, but they're in the same room. We've had two guests before in different places, different parts of the world, but it's great to have Megan and Zoe with us. Hi, ladies.
Hi, everybody.
I noticed some funky stuff on the wall behind you, so I guess we'll get into that a little bit in today's conversation, where you are and what you're up to.
But just for our audience, we are talking today a little bit about history and Adventist heritage. And it's a topic that often, I don't know about you guys, but I sort of first encountered some of it when I was a Pathfinder. There were a couple of. Lessons that we did. There was some things that, church or Avondale, there's a First semester, I think that introduces us to some Adventist history.
So there's bits and pieces throughout my life, but there's been a bit of a resurgence in interest in Adventist history. There's a number of Adventist history podcasts and things around now., and Adventist Heritage Month is becoming a thing in the SPD this year. There's a lot of exciting events, one of which record is involved in our 125 year celebration and some other events, a daily devotional people can read along at home.
So it's quite an event this year. It's quite a big deal. We're making a big deal of it, but why? So we're here to answer some of those questions., today with Megan and Zoe. So Megan and Zoe, if you want to just start by telling us a little bit about what you do and what your connection to Adventist Heritage is at the moment.
Okay, I can start. Hi everyone, I'm Megan and I'm here at Adventist Heritage Centre. I'm labelled as a heritage assistant and I work I'm doing a lot of archiving of all the artifacts and written documents of the church. I do tours at Sunnyside and, I manage a lot of social media as well. Yeah.
Awesome. Hi, I'm Zoe. Nice to meet you all. I am, it's very similar to me and we do similar jobs, but I'm a little bit more, on the writing behind the scenes, and education side of things. But we at the heritage center, we're pretty much all rounders. We do all sorts of things throughout the week.
, and we've had the pleasure of,, learning new skills. Film design has been one of the recent ones for us, which has been a bit of a learning curve. Yeah. But it's been good, heritage month for us. started in the room that we're sitting now in our boardroom, where a couple of our team members got together for a staff meeting.
And we were just talking about Adventist heritage and, all the amazing and crazy things that we've been discovering, through our research and events, but that, people don't get the pleasure of hearing. And we were discussing the fact that, there's a big problem out there at the moment with so many people not feeling able to connect with their heritage.
And so Heritage Month is just one of the ways that we like to put history front and center, and just a way to make it the. Focus, not just on a once off Sabbath, but for a whole month, and hopefully inspire some people to, connect with it more often in their daily life.
Awesome.
Heritage Assistance is a very cool job title. It's not one that you hear every day. It's also not often that you find individuals that are passionate about Adventist history, let alone two young women. And so I guess I'm curious, what was it that sparked this interest for you guys? What was one of the first things that you learned about Adventist history that you were like, Wow, this is pretty cool.
Well,
I've been, I've grown up as an Adventist my whole life., and I didn't know much about the history. I didn't really know much about, Ellen White or anything. And somehow
I got this job
and I just, I learned so much. And I found out about our history.
How complex it is, um, how complex Ellen White is and how she was actually a pretty cool
lady.
And I became pretty passionate about that. So I've learned that.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm a bit of a history buff. I'm studying to be a history teacher, ironically. And so this is right up my alley. And that even though I was always interested in history, Adventist history wasn't one of those areas that caught my interest.
But one of my first days on the job, we walked into an area of our office that we termed the vault. And inside is just compactuses and shelves. full of South Pacific artifacts. And just walking amongst like actual remnants of history, being able to pick them up and touch them and see them for yourself.
It was so amazing. And I was kind of hooked from there on out.
It's kind of cool to see and touch and to feel the history as opposed to just sort of reading about it in a book, . That's the difference you guys are. there looking through the archives, looking through , the vault, that would be a surreal sort of experience.
What are the most interesting or exciting things that you've found or that you've learned, in this journey?
There's so many. Oh my goodness, well. In the vault, , we had, this
is last year, we had two researchers, from the University of Sydney and,, the University of Queensland, and we were going through a couple of boxes and, we pulled out this
weird
circular thing, or wrapped in glad wrap, and unwrapped it, and inside was a grenade, which is pretty cool, and it hadn't had, any safety checks done on it, so I had to bring up the Defence Force, and,, so they could come down
and safety all check it out.
We had to get the police down. That was pretty cool.
Like we
never know, like we know what we have in the box, but sometimes when you pick up a
box and open up, you don't know what's in there. Which
is pretty exciting. It's always a surprise. I think that's why it's such an amazing job is that you genuinely never know what you might find.
It might sound crazy from like an outside perspective, but picking up a random box and finding a grenade inside is not unusual for us. And so just like discovering these crazy aspects of history just randomly is part of the fun of working here.
Like a mystery package
every day at your door.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think one of the, the grenade is a good one, but I think one of my favorite things that we've seen is that those same researchers, it was the same day I think,, had a look at some of the shields that we have in our collection. And we love them. We think they're awesome, but we weren't sure how the researchers would go with them.
And they had a look at the three in the set that we have, and they told us that, one of the shields had like a hand grip made of natural fibers, which was still attached to it. And it's the only one they've ever seen that still has the hand grip attached. And so just finding out that things which are normal around here are so special and have an amazing history and are just so unique is really cool.
, I know I could spend forever talking about all the stuff that we have. It's
pretty cool.
Um, yeah, we've got heaps.
We have a lot of stuff from Papua New Guinea. Um, we have artifacts from all across the South Pacific. So Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji,,
some of the other areas.
So in working in this space, what has changed for you in terms of your perception for Adventist history? Because imagine both of you going in, So you said you weren't necessarily, you're passionate about history, but not necessarily Adventist history. And yet I can tell in your voices and the way you're excited about Adventist history.
Why? What's changed?
I think for me, I didn't find Adventist history interesting because My association with the Adventist church was my local church and not much wider. I know that the Adventist church is like worldwide, but you don't really get, you don't get to see other churches worldwide.
And so it tends to be very localized. But once I stepped into this job and we're doing research about the history of all sorts of other countries that I hadn't even dreamed of ever visiting and knew next to nothing about, Adventist history becomes so much broader and deeper concept., especially when you look into the history of countries that have.
A much longer history than, my family has been in this country and things like that. It becomes so much more epic and I guess More universal for me. Yeah,
no, I've really loved learning about Adventist history, but I always thought Adventist history was kind of boring and I always thought everyone involved in like the early stages of Adventism were old.
So I was like, Oh, they're just old people. I can't. see myself like that. But no, they were pretty young. They were young, like Zoe and I, and, you can just imagine yourselves in their shoes setting up this Adventist,, movement
from nothing. Yeah, from like setting up a movement from literally nothing and, all the traditions and the amazing customs and things that we have today as a church.
It's hard to fathom them never existing. And, young people like us having to, define what an Adventist is and to come up with the 28 fundamentals that we all ascribe to today,, it's just incredible.
I guess on that, are there things that you now appreciate much more because of what you've learned that you didn't before?
, I don't know if it's specifically any of the fundamentals or specific beliefs that we kind of subscribe to or believe in. Are there any that have , especially been strengthened in your, you know.
For
me, I feel like I kind of came back to the church a bit by learning a bit more of the history. I've grown up Adventist. I've lived in Cooranbong my whole life. , and I thought of Ellen White as pretty boring. And then I started to learn more about her and I thought she was pretty cool. And then I went, hang on, Adventism, it's...
It's not this old stiff, you know, religion, it doesn't have to be. And I learned more about it. And I started engaging with it more, especially at this job. I fell
more in love with it. So I've like, Hmm, I got, I got more of an appreciation. , I guess our church structure, why we do the things the way that we do, which you don't really think about it much cause it's just part of everyday life doing offering and tithes and the everyday things of being an Adventist.
But I guess in this job, I've had chances to research their origin. And the origins of the church and look at, the reasons why we did these things initially, why we made them part of our everyday practice, and looking at, the things that were going on in the world of our pioneers, which made it a necessity to do tithe and offering and things like that.
It makes it so much richer and make more sense to me than just doing it because it's what you've always done, , or because it's what your parents do or what you're told to do. Actually understanding the principles,, is a lot easier when you understand the history, in my mind. Hmm.
Yeah. How do you guys see the link between a modern sort of Adventist identity?
So, someone who's, especially young people, as they're growing up in the church, I think we've all been through a phase, for those of us who have grown up in the church, where we've had to make a choice, do I stick with this or do I go somewhere else? Is this working for me?
Does it make sense to me in my life? And what I can hear you saying, and I'd love for you to tease out a little bit for us, is how you see the heritage, the stories that you guys are discovering and retelling, connecting to our identity as Adventists. , how do those things interplay?
Like, I am an Adventist. Because of those who went before me, but why, and how does that look for you guys, yourselves?
I think because I've, , as a uni student studying, teaching, you have to go out in schools. Quite regularly and do, stints of multiple weeks with kids. And I haven't been to an Adventist school yet, but I have been at Christian schools and dealing with high school students, , every kid that walks in your classroom is going through a stage of life where they're forging their identity.
They're no longer a child anymore. , they can't just blindly follow what they have been doing their whole life. They start to question things, and most importantly, they start to question themselves, and what they believe in, what they think is important and,, why they do the things they do and as you said, sometimes they decide it's not worth keeping on with the things they've always done, and they walk away. And religion, unfortunately, tends to be one of the major things that young people are questioning and decide to keep or get rid of., and something that I have loved is... You know, when I do get opportunities, sometimes through work or through the classroom or other means to actually share bits of history.
And Adventist history with young people, you just see a lot go on in their minds. They're like, Oh, right. That's why we do that. Oh, or this person wasn't actually sticking the mud. They were actually really cool., and you just see the perspective shifting. I mean, I find that the more that young people engage with history.
the more that their identity starts to link with it. Because as , my favorite lecturer loves to say, history is not just about the past. When we study history, we're looking at how it relates to the present. And we're looking at how it affects us, and what we believe today. And I think that,, with history being so closely linked to identity, Heritage is more important now than it ever has been.
At least in my perspective. Sounds about so well, Zoe.
, I went from an Adventist school to a Christian school which had a lot of different denominations floating around in it., and I became quite confused about Adventism because it seemed quite complex to me. It seems like we have a lot of peculiar kind of beliefs that other denominations don't have.
And so I guess In learning about Adventist history, can you just shed some light on, what are some of the major differences with Adventism that other Christian denominations don't have that you guys have kind of learned about or, that sets
us aside?
I think clothing is one of them. A lot of people growing up, especially since we're girls, in clothing seems to be something that we focus on more or get questioned about more., one of the things I always heard growing up was, , you need to be modest and you need to dress a certain way because Ellen White said you have to.
, and that's just what they say. They never explained why, it was just, you have to do it cause she said so., but he was recently, it was only a couple of months ago. , I had to do some research on what Ellen White said about clothing., and as I did the research, I found out that it's not just because she wants you to look unfashionable that she made, statements about wearing.
Modest clothing and longer skirts. It was because at the time, the fashion was like ridiculously tight corsets and skirts so long that you were tripping over them all the time. , and it was actually really badly affecting people's health. Like women fainted all corsets were so tight they couldn't breathe.
And Ellen saw that happening in society. And she said, that's ridiculous. Like, why are we doing this? And so she made some very strong statements about clothing. Just telling people like, Hey, , don't worry about that fashion. Just wear stuff that's modest, but works for you. Because , it just makes more sense from a practical standpoint, but that was written in the 1800s.
And we're still saying it today, but it still applies, like she wasn't so much trying to restrict people as she was trying to free people from, , the societal constructions, which were proving dangerous actually at the time. I know it's a very like isolated example, but it's just one. No, that's good.
Oh, I don't
know so much. I'm now thinking about LMI and what she wore. Like LMI also wore pants sometimes. , but
the, like, the people got
a bit too concerned of her wearing pants and
that's all that they focused on, so her message. And so she went back to wearing dresses, which I, it's such a little tidbit.
I like it because it shows her as this. This activist, , this revolutionary
woman. , she was also conscious. Yeah. She's like, I don't want anything to come before the message that I'm sharing. So I'm just going to go back to wearing skirts because I want to put God first. And I think that's really awesome.
says a lot about her.
In a way, I feel sorry for Ellen White because she's,. put up on a pedestal so often, , , she's almost, weaponized mythologized by different factors, different parties. Some people want to deride her for this and that. Some people want to lift her up and make her an authority on everything.
Tell me a little bit about the humanization of Ellen White for you guys working in. the archives, reading, some things that she hand wrote, how has that helped you to see her more as a human? And perhaps you can read her writings or hear people quoting from her in a context that you've actually got skin on the bones.
She's not just, a myth, she's an actual real person. And what has that done for your understanding of Ellen White?
It's
done so much for me, I've seen her as an actual person now, not just this foreign idea, but as this, this woman who lived a hard life and did so much and who cares so much about,, her family, her friends, her God.
, I do, me and Zoe do a lot of tours at Sunnyside, and so even just being in her house shows that she was alive, , hearing stories about her,, about what she did for the community, of how she was just genuinely a loving person, has really just made me realize that she was just, at the end of the day, a really good person who just showed Christ like qualities, and I wish I had the exact quote for you, I can't remember it, but Ellen White, she wrote that she didn't like the way that people were taking her messages out of context.
, and she didn't like that. And she wasn't like, yeah, she was just a vessel really. I forgot
to give this message. It's hard to put someone on a pedestal when you spend hours in their house or think, amongst the things that they actually interacted with every day. , seeing,, the fire, where she would have spent time just squatting over a fire, cooking, things like that, just the everyday Things makes her so much of a person rather than like a mythological figure almost that , you say Ellen White and everyone goes, whoa, Ellen White said this, but I'm like, she was just a regular person like us, going about life, doing the best she could to represent Jesus and , to be his vessel.
But still you are living life and being part of the community, , just like each of us. And I think when. When you see the human side of her and you hear, some of the older people in our community, telling about how their grandparents or relatives, knew her and worked with her and things, she becomes a person, not just like a portrait on the wall.
Yeah, I always laugh when people point out things like, Did you know Ellen ate butter? Or pants? I'm kind of missing the point. When you Google Adventism, you often get these,, graphic images, not graphic, but these images of Ellen G. White that have been drawn around. So just that Adventism is a cult.
Basically when you Advent, it just comes up with cult responses., which is unfortunate, but what do you think is one of the main things that people like commonly misunderstand about Adventists?
I don't know. I feel like a
lot of people
judge Adventism because it's so different from the other
denominations. Like we all believe in the same
God, but we do
things differently. Like we go to church on a Saturday, how we view the dead and those, they, it's so different from what they think that they, label us as a cult.
Cause. Yeah., we're a bit more traditional than some of the other denominations. I guess because we're newer than a lot of them. I mean, a lot of these guys have traditions like pre 1600s and we're only like 1800s onwards. , and so a lot of our traditions we still keep.
because they're not that outdated. But I think a lot of other churches have modernized and gone a different direction since then. And they look at the traditions we still keep and probably think that's kind of like, Most cultish kind of having these rituals that we do around communion and the Sabbath and things like that.
And they're like, Oh, that's weird. Why would you do that? You must be a weird person in the cult, but it makes sense when you're in it.
We like to get practical here on Record Live. So as we start to wrap up this conversation, what's one thing that you think that you have learned from the pioneers that you think we need more of today? What's one thing you could, like a message you could get to our listeners, our viewers, that you think this was the DNA, this was how they worked?
We really need to get, maybe not get back to that. Maybe we're doing it in some format, but yeah, maybe there's a practical thing that we should all be thinking about even this week as we go about our lives. What's something we can learn from the pioneers that you guys have learned from them, that you can share with us?
I think
they're really just fully relied on God. They stepped out in blind faith and they just
did whatever was asked of them without,
like thinking of the consequences of how others might judge them. They just purely went out. And did what they needed to do. , so they were very creative and very brave and
I think because they had to rely on God so much, they were like very uncompromising , if something happened which they didn't agree with They just didn't agree with it.
Like they, they didn't try and compromise with people. I mean, Ellen had to go and tell people off all the time. And she didn't necessarily like doing it, but she still did it because it was necessary. And she wanted everyone to be like on one track, than that. And I think there's a lot of pressure to, to compromise on faith and to conform to the world and to, , all this stuff around us constantly in the media and things. , but I think we can learn to just like persevere with what we know to be right and just keep with it, even if it's not popular. I think it's a good lesson from that. Good
takeaway. Solid. Adventist Heritage Lunch, can you tell us a little bit more about that? Is that something that people can attend virtually or is it just an in person thing?
Like, how can people get involved and, yeah, join the journey?
There is so much you can do for Adventist Heritage Month. October is very busy, but it's very fun. So,, for every day in October, these daily devotionals will be sent out. A lot of people in the church have written about some of their journey of their heritage and, you can get those on our social media or go
to our website to sign up.
We have
a
picnic on the 7th of October at Sunnyside. So bring your own food and come, stand on the grounds of Illinois and
journey through a house. Tours and balloons for the kids and some other like fun games that the kids can get involved in. It'll be awesome. You've got your own, 125th anniversary of the next Sabbath, the 14th of October, which is really exciting.
So check out the records Facebook page to find out what they're doing there.
And then we have the.
That program will be live streamed, we're hoping, so everyone can watch wherever they are. They'll be able to watch along the, there's a morning church service and an afternoon sort of history slash.
Where is the record going now program? So that should be fun.
And then on, I think the 21st of October we have, , the great appointment program, which will be live streamed and it's got dramas, cahoots, a pathfinder honor in it talking about, Adventism in the South
Pacific really. I think it starts at 2pm
our time, New South Wales
time.
So just jump on the live stream, and you'll be able to follow along with everybody., and the Kahoot and the Pathfinder Honour are things that you can do from your own home or from your own club meeting. So it's easy for you to like actively get involved with the program. It's not just sitting and watching, which is great.
And the 29th of October, that's a Sunday for us, but it's a Saturday back in the States. , there is an Ellen White symposium. , where some academics are tackling topics, , about Ellen White,, in particular, they're focusing on Ellen White in the modern era, , and how we relate to her, 200 odd years from when she was around.
And, as part of that, our office, worked to put together two videos. They're about. 80 ish minutes long each and they are, they have some retellings in them, , with acting of Ellen White's time in Australia, and also just some applications for us today., but if you don't manage to catch the program, those two videos will be available on our website, in our social media.
along with the four we did last year. So if you want some time just chilling, you can watch the six together. It's pretty good watch. Yeah., and that's Adventist Heritage Month.
And you can find out a lot of that information at heritage. adventistchurch. com. We'll put it in the comments on the live stream and people can, yeah, click through and check it out. It's going to be an exciting October ladies. Thank you for. Thanks for your time today. Thank you for your passion for keeping, the heritage alive, keeping the stories alive and keeping the archives in order and the vault and, yeah, I think it's remind, it's a good reminder that, our early pioneers were on, on mission, , they were , on point and we can also be too because Jesus is still not here and we've still got people to share the hope and the love of Jesus with.
So yeah, thanks for watching everyone. , God bless you ladies in your work there at the Heritage Centre and yeah, we'll see you all next
week. See π you next week. Bye.
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