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Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.
Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.
Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.
To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.
DH - Michaelangelo L'Acqua
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Michaelangelo: [00:00:00] Would you do the fashion show? And I was like, fashion, I don't give a shit about that. Um, like, I'm a musician. And she was like, well, it's $500. I was like, I'm in, I'm in.
Intro: What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.
I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.
Sponsor: This podcast is sponsored by Berman Fall Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.
Dan: today's guest is an internationally acclaimed music and lifestyle branding expert, creative director, and visionary. He's a respective music branding specialist with a distinguished track record in the luxury space.
He's worked with iconic brands, including Virgin Voyages and W [00:01:00] Hotels. He's the founder of his own creative and strategy agency. L'Acqua Zia. the Global Entertainment Director at Starwood Hotels and Resorts. Ladies and gentlemen,
please welcome Michaelangelo L'Acqua.
Michaelangelo: How are you.
You my friend? Thank you for having me.
Dan: I'm great. And uh, the last time I saw you in person was, was it over Christmas, over Yes, Year's, and you didn't jump in the water, but all of us jumped in the water and swam with these giant whale sharks.
But I guess you'd been there, done that, having
Michaelangelo: no, I saw Jaws in the seventies and, uh, Fitz forever, You know, broken me, And I only like to go in the water if I can see the bottom in my feet. So
I really enjoyed watching you guys swim. It
was beautiful.
Dan: it was pretty cool. You jump in, you start swimming, like swimming your ass off. I didn't know how fast they swim, and then I turned and look and there was this giant. Whale shark there, but they're kind of, they're [00:02:00] not like jaws. They have like gums. They, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michaelangelo: they're very docile, but it's what you don't see that scares me,
Dan: You did give very good moral support and then you were
lovely enough to invite us all over to your home, which was just incredible to see and just, there's such an awesome. Collection of entrepreneurs, creatives, visionaries,
um, in the Toto Santos area where you are.
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: that that's actually a great segue into
Michaelangelo: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Dan: because I feel like the home that y'all have created there and then your, all of your friends and, and then the vision of where everything is going, it's like, it's really remarkable. And thank you for letting me have have.
Embraced it and lived it and breathed it and seen it, so I appreciate You Thanks, man.
How does that make you.
think about hospitality?
Michaelangelo: Hospitality is everything to me, You know, experiences, uh, [00:03:00] sensorium, the magic of moments of awe and how. the Actual art of hospitality comes in contact with experiences, comes in contact with the dream state. Um, yeah, so it's been quite a journey as we've watched a massive transition from COVID time to where we are now, how our younger generation has come online, and how powerful they are with their new consumption. And also hitting a certain age myself where. You know, luxury is more defined by the way I live my life than it does, um, the way, let's say my mother and my father at one time live my, live their lives.
So I
feel it's a great time to be in, in hospitality and luxury hospitality in particular.
I.
Dan: So one thing I was struck in spending that time with you over the holidays was [00:04:00] I hadn't thought about this movie in a really long time. It's a documentary, it's called, it Might Get Loud and it has. I forgot who the filmmaker was, but I remember there was Jimmy Page, Jack Black, not Jack Black, Jack White,
almost Jack Black and the Edge, right.
Michaelangelo: Okay.
Dan: Three very different guitarists, in
my opinion. Like right, totally different. I don't even know how they all got in the same place, but when they were talking about, actually when Jimmy Page from Led Zeppelin was talking about the edge, he. Almost in reverence. I was surprised that he loved the Edge so
much, but he referred to the Edge as a sonic architect.
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: that's really I got from you. I like you are a sonic architect, and I hadn't thought about that until I spent that time with you. And then on the flight home I was like, oh my God, he's a sonic architect. I don't know if that word you feel describes you very well, but I was very struck by the power of it and kind of how sound [00:05:00] is almost like a timestamp.
Scent in a way
to tie all of the other
senses together, and I'd
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: to hear your thoughts on it.
Michaelangelo: sure.
I mean, let's talk about Jimmy Page first. Um, an absolute incredible technician with skills. That, You know, are probably the best guitar player in the world, top five. Uh, the Edge on the other hand, technically does not have the same facility, but what he did do was he was, he is a master of motif and melody.
Right.
And I think when you look at telling stories, You know, you craft, a, a melody and then you create a motif that changes ever so slightly as the film plays out. Um, so. this is how I look at hospitality. You're looking at it seven days a week. You're looking at it from the morning, the afternoon, the evening, and the late night. And at any given moment, you can create magic for the guest. Um, so it's really [00:06:00] important when you're defining a particular brand, sonic identity and their strategy to play with motifs.
right? So that the guest at any given time can experience the melody one way, and we're not diverting very far to another melody.
We're just tweaking the melody and the energy behind it. Um, so being a sonic sculptor, Um, yeah, I think that that plays in and I'm, I take that as a tremendous compliment.
Dan: Additionally, when we were all there, we were there on vacation. You're living there, you're working there, you're Yeah, I. And I remember at one point had to get a deliverable done. I don't remember when it was. It was like. It might have been New Year's Eve
Michaelangelo: yeah, it was
New Year's Christmas. It was hell
Dan: days and you were, you were like so dialed in and focused and getting it, and I forget what you called your deliverable, but it was like a Sonic. brand book or a,
Michaelangelo: yeah. Sonic Identity brand Bible.
Dan: Okay,
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: so [00:07:00] let's protect a sonic identity brand Bible. I fucking love that. Okay, so let's pretend I have a place that purveys hospitality, Yeah. love what you said from morning until night because so many places, okay, they do breakfast well. They do dinner well, they do lunch well, but it doesn't really, or they have after hours really well, but it doesn't, it's really hard to get it all to tie together Yeah. the fit and finish of the place.
The lighting, I'm sure the sound, but how, does that deliverable that brand bible for Yeah,
Tie all of that together. How can you help smooth out those rough edges of a, of a space through sound?
Michaelangelo: You know, when I was younger, I used to be the cool guy that would come in and tell you, You know what to do in cool ways, right? As I'm older and slower now I realized that sound and experiences are infrastructure. So before we do anything, before we hire a vendor, before we curate, before we create an experience, we need to [00:08:00] clearly define, um, what is your strategy?
How does, how do you take the touch points of the brand, DNA, and you translate them into very clear objectives in the same way that a design brand Bible is created. We do the exact same thing with sound, with music, with experiences, and it's clearly mapped out. Across all of your hotels and all of your spaces, all of your hospitality properties and restaurants and beach clubs. Um, and then once the executive team has clarity on that and they feel very strong and passionate about the direction, 'cause it's right in front of them. Then they can sign off on it and then we can put a budget against it and then we can start executing on developing everything. And that even comes down to setting up new RFPs for, for different vendors that can be more in line with the vision of what we're trying to create.
So the Sonic brand Bible for me is, um, is something that I came up with when I worked for Richard Branson, Virgin Voyages. We built that [00:09:00] brand from scratch and there were, I think 40, 45 outlets and they really needed to understand the architecture of experiences of sound and how you would take the guest through a seven day or a five day emotional arc 'cause you have them captive for 24 7.
So, um, yeah, the sonogram Bible is, uh, is something that I like to start with my clients on. And then from there we get to start having fun.
Dan: so this has been coming up more recently with many of the podcasts that I've been having in these conversations on the idea of and having a branding specialist. Oftentimes I find that the branding that will really help the, all the stakeholders in the project. Clearly define the vision and where they want to go.
They, they help define that north star.
Michaelangelo: Mm-hmm.
Dan: really helps everything else fall into, into place.
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: found is after reading some of the deliverables, okay, sound [00:10:00] is a part of it, but it's often a small part
of it, but it is important.
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: coming at it as. A branding specialist from the Sonic perspective, right?
So you would
probably lead with the sound and everything else. Follow follows
Michaelangelo: Yeah, let me, let me put it into perspective. If a brand hasn't had, doesn't have clarity, and they haven't really defined their point of view within sound or their infrastructure to deliver sound, how am I able to make your guests stay that extra hour? To have one more cocktail to keep on that conversation going. And if they have just one more cocktail that they normally wouldn't have, how much does that hit your bottom line period? Right. So if you're a brand and you take this, You know, you can get KPIs against that. You can see how long they sit at bad music, bad, uh, bad culture. People are in and out. It's a transactional. But in Log luxury hospitality, you want [00:11:00] people to embrace the, the food, the beverage, the design, um, the architecture, the, the whole bit, but the real cream on top of it. That allows you to manipulate a guest consciously and unconsciously is, is sound and music.
Dan: And this was the second part of where I wanted to go in that question, but. You, you said yourself, you started off, you didn't say taste maker, but I'm putting that on you as a young, cool taste maker, right? You're out, you're DJing, you, you had a recording studio.
Michaelangelo: Yep.
Dan: done everything in the, in the world of, of creating sound and experience through sound.
At what point on, on your journey did you, and how did you figure out this sonic branding Bible? And because, because oftentimes I envision you. Working with musician musicians and, and, and other artists who were up really, really late working the midnight oil, getting that done. But you, [00:12:00] you must have also been walking around in like this, 'cause you're working so hard in this state of like, I don't know, just delirium, right?
Because you're tired or maybe you're getting it. I know, I'm speaking. For me, I would just be so tired if I was up all night that just, I'm not a vampire. And perhaps you are,
Michaelangelo: We woke up late.
Dan: but how did you, like, how did you come up with the idea of getting this really
incredible deliverable together and what, what, what were some of the, I don't know, the, the mentors or experiences to
where you, you could develop this bible?
Michaelangelo: I'm very fortunate to be born at the right place at the right time within the um.
Major moments, cultural moments within humanity and analog humanity. More importantly, prior to Instagram, prior to any type of digital footprint that we had, um, You know, in the nineties I was a studio musician and a record producer. And just, You know, and I, I don't mean to disrespect any Musicians, but I [00:13:00] was ignorant to anything outside of my guitar, right? That's all I really cared about. Um, I had a very. Lucky experience. I had a mentor named Bernard Purdy. He is one of the most recorded drummers in the history of music. Um, he heard me come into class 'cause I went to the new school and I got a degree from Jazz, uh, in jazz from there. And he told me that, uh, I would never make it as a guitar player. I sucked, but I could, I could write music. And he heard some of my composition. So
he, yeah.
Dan: As soon as he said
Michaelangelo: Again, different time, A different time.
Dan: Did you give him a piece of your mind or you just took
Michaelangelo: No, this is the most recorded drummer in the history of music. you, sit there and you, you take it like a man. Um, and he told me this over and over and over.
So back then, unlike now, no one was of snowflake back then. So it wasn't desensitized, in the intention of a mentor like that and back in the analog days was to destroy you in all shape or form that [00:14:00] you thought you were, then a real mentor would rebuild you into the shape of what they believed were your best qualities. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to do that right now because there's triggers and all these other things, and people don't, in my opinion, on a creative space, don't often. Break through their ego to achieve the, the greatest, um, uh, successes that they could had. They been destroyed and rebuilt, You know, through a hard experience.
So, um, by that I gave up the guitar. I started wr writing and producing music, and randomly I got, um, discovered by Tom Ford and his, uh, team. I had done a small fashion show in New York for. A up and coming designer named Cynthia Row At the time, a friend of mine called me up, said, Hey, our music person quit.
Would you do the fashion show? And I was like, fashion, I don't give a shit about that. Um, like, I'm a musician. And she was like, well, it's $500. I was like, I'm in, I'm in. [00:15:00] Um, $500 in 1999 was a lot of money, You know, for starving musicians. So I did the show, it hit really big during New York Fashion Week, and then I got a call from. the producer, um, Tom Ford for Gucci. And so and said, Hey, I have a client. Would you be interested in doing a demo for him? And I was like, yeah, sure.
Um, no, no. They didn't tell me anything. They just
told me, Hey, hey, I, had,
Dan: said that, would you
Michaelangelo: this is where the story gets good.
So I, uh, um,
Dan: Shut the fuck up, Dan. Let me go.
Michaelangelo: I, I said, yeah, sure. And they said, okay, we only have $2,500 for the demo.
And I was like, what the fuck? Like 25 That's insane. It's like someone throwing me a quarter million dollars right now. So, um, they wanted me to produce Marlene remix, Marlene Dietrich, falling in love again. Um, over like three different ways. They gave me a week to [00:16:00] do it. I stayed up all night. I smoked a lot of pod and I produced three remixes, and I handed it in the next day. They yelled at me, said, we gave you a week, um, why would you hand it in next day? And I said, this is as good as this gonna get. And
then a couple days later I get a call saying that the, the client wants to meet you. And, uh, I said, sure, I'm available. You know, anytime this week, You know, I was bartending and, and playing gigs. Um, They said no in Paris. And I was like, what? So I got flown business class to Paris with my roommate at the time who I asked to um, jump in with me 'cause I was so ignorant and music guy, I didn't even know what an invoice was. Um, was told while we were driving down, George sank, you're about to meet Tom Ford.
And I turned to my business partner at the time. I said, how is Ford Motors related to in to fashion?
Dan: Okay. There we go.
Michaelangelo: Yeah. and the, and the, and the producer thought I was joking and yelled at me and You know, this is not a joking [00:17:00] matter.
Anyway, I got hired, um,
by,
for, by Tom Ford because Gucci had just bought, so Laurent and I was producing the first so Laurent show under Tom Ford.
So this was like and it's insane moment within fashion, You know, like, so Laurent was stepping down. He was a God and Tom Ford, this marketing genius. Who wasn't a sketcher, You know, like, like, so Lauren was coming over and it was almost like the antichrist was taking over fashion, per se, and it hit so hard.
The show was, was incredible. The Gucci show was incredible in Milan. And from that moment onward, You know, I had to learn very quickly and very painfully how to translate emotion, uh, um, memories. Uh, abstract thoughts into a sonic
show that delivered a, a vision of fashion for all these designers. [00:18:00] So whether it was Diane, Von Furstenberg, Karl Lagerfeld, or, or Tommy Hofinger, um, I worked with them all and, and they're not easy.
They're always like, You know, this, this show is all about being. black and hard shapes, but You know, soft and round and light and you're just like, what are you talking about? So they show you the fabric, they touch the fabric, they tell you the inspiration, what it was. And this was while I started scoring, uh, film and TV commercial.
So all of a sudden I started coming up with this, uh, understanding that life is nothing more than a film, right. that when I'm producing these fashion shows, this is a score to a film that's unraveling. And the main characters are these, are these models wearing the different clothes and these are the different characters.
So, um, that is the only way, or the only reason why I am what I am, is because of my days in fashion where
conceptually
it [00:19:00] was
telling
a story through subtext and context. Just like you would when you're scoring a film, when you're looking at Enio, maricon, You know what I mean? The melodies behind it drive the character when they're not saying anything and vice versa when the character's saying something, they're supporting the emotional intent by the two characters on film.
So I took all of that knowledge and I started implementing it into hotels once. W Hotel called me up in 2009 and asked me to be music director, and at that point I was like. Oh, like I had a formula in my head. I had applied it at a very, very high level. So adding curation, music, adding cultural moments, like why are this, why is this sub genre of music so cool? Again, pre analog, right? Like I was the guy that had the white labels. I was the guy in the club in Paris getting, You know, ground level cool. And then I was [00:20:00] able to take that. Distill it down to the, the, the values that I thought a brand could really, really excel in and then drop it in. And that's what I did with W Hotels.
I was able to really take the inner sanctums of the cool spots that I existed in DJ'ed in, and then translate it to, um, a soundtrack that represented the lifestyle of W Hotels. So long-winded, um, conversation, but I shouldn't exist.
Dan: Well, yeah, that, okay. So, and I wanna get to that because growing up in that age of analog. you because there was a certain amount of kismet or or luck. There's, look, we all work really, really hard and I love the one saying that the harder I work, the luckier, luckier I, I get. So I
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: like take that away from you, but I feel like if this was today, you might not have been found because you might
Michaelangelo: Yeah,
Dan: the most likes or the most
Michaelangelo: totally.
Dan: most whatever
Michaelangelo: Totally
Dan: happen to be.
Michaelangelo: [00:21:00] born at the right place.
Dan: Yeah, but you also put yourself there. You, you
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: there, right?
Michaelangelo: I mean, look there. When it happened to me in 2019 99, what, there were like 2 million, 2 billion less people on the planet probably 27 years ago. I lived in New York City in, in the, um, epi epicenter of culture and Cool. And I was grinding as hard as I could. To achieve something. And again, when I say grinding like a different way, like you did not get on stage unless you were the baddest motherfucker in the room,
period. Nowadays, everybody gets a, You know, participation trophy. You've got a hundred hours into doing something and you have a platform to say what you want.
You get to DJ after like 50 hours of practicing like it. It wasn't like that back then. You had to be the baddest motherfucker, and that meant. You know, you were pushing 10,000 hours by the time you got an opportunity, once
you hit 10,000 hours, you're, you're a [00:22:00] master. You're, you're, you're, you're hitting degrees of mastery.
And then if you are lucky enough to have mentors that have 30,000, they shit on you and they tell you you ain't shit at 10,000 hours. So you work harder and you work harder. Um, so I'd
say I was, I was, if I existed now, probably not. I'd probably not have this opportunity,
but again, right place, right time, right. Um, right. Work ethic and skillset that I acquired. And then, You know, you step up and I was like, all right. And I threw everything I, I had at it.
Sponsor: Hey, everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability, and I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor, Berman Fall Hospitality Group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.
Please check out their impact page [00:23:00] in the show notes for more info.
Dan: okay. So what's interesting though is as we become more wise, a k older and grayer and silvered, um, one of the things that you, that I think is amazing and, and you, you referred to it earlier where, You know. Okay, you were in the right place. You got torn down by your mentor, and that might not have happened today.
Also because of people getting triggered and just, people change, right? How people interact with the world changes. But how do you think. I don't know, like the path that you're on, you have to still, you're still coming up with new stuff. You're still, you're, you're dealing with so many different types of people from teetotalers to gender fluid folks to like kids that just have mom and dad's credit card and they just want to like get bottle service and party all night.
But you
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: to, the, the demographic has changed, right? [00:24:00] So like, how, how. have you learned to just keep delivering for that from breakfast to
Michaelangelo: Yeah, I mean, one, I'd like to stay in my sweet spot. I understand luxury and I understand the luxury consumer, and I understand the trends of this new generation that's inheriting. $1.7 trillion. Um, more importantly, I understand analog and I understand how to create real life experiences that are rich and rewarding for people to spend time in a space together and commune, right?
These are formulas that I think are just baseline for humans, um, with my pedigree and luxury and being, You know, mentored by incredibly. Talented beyond my imagination, or comprehension, most of the time fashion producers, right? Like next level of stuff I just didn't understand until like years later when I started getting into luxury and then I'm like, oh my God, now this under, now I understand what Tom said or what Ralph said, or [00:25:00] blah, blah, blah. Um. So again, I stay in my sweet spot. You know, I don't, I don't try to assume I understand a younger demographic that's not in the luxury space. That's out of my, my context. So,
Dan: It's like you almost have to stay plugged in and you're just, you're like an anthropologist,
Michaelangelo: Yes, I, I'm an anthropologist, but I also, um, Humans don't change that much. Right. And I think our generation, You know, you grew up in the eighties and the nineties. They were so rich. so rich with culture and we invented so much cool shit, to be honest with you. Sometimes I just pull out, You know, a bag of tricks or what were, were ultimately stuff I've either done or other people have done in the eighties and the nineties and the early 2000.
Most of the people don't or haven't been there, don't know it or don't remember it. So I just take those formulas and I put the relevant twists that are need to be done. Um, you don't have to reinvent the wheel when you're a master. You just have to look back in the coffers and understand how you [00:26:00] applied that when this was trending or that you just change the colors, but the structure and, and the human to human engagement doesn't change.
I also. You know, I like to stay in luxury because people do like to party and we're not, we're, it's, You know, the tea told is secondary and, and we'll have one cocktail on the menu for them. Great. Have fun. But we wanna drive food and beverage and we wanna drive alcohol consumption, You know, and we want people to have that old school analog style.
We're not looking to, to, You know, um, shit on people. that, uh, Don't believe in that, but they still want the experience. They still want fun in the room and they still want a great time. So play the hits, stay in your sweet spot. And also, luxury is changing a lot right now because of this younger generation. the more that I can tee up those formulas that have been proven decade after decade after decade, [00:27:00] why would, why would that younger person not embrace it?
It works every time.
Dan: Agreed. I, yeah, it's, it, I don't know. I guess I, yeah, you have a lot more experience than I do. I would have to pull out my old, like CD case with all the things in there and try, but you probably have a much I. and, uh, ability to connect with the zeitgeist at any moment is probably orders of magnitude above
Michaelangelo: Well, let, let me put, put it in context. If, if the Barcelona chair was forgotten and no one knew about it and you came out with it today, do you think people would be like, eh, that sucks, or would they be like, holy shit, that's a cool, that's a cool fucking chair.
fucking chair.
I.
Dan: it taps into just that
Michaelangelo: I.
Dan: basic human
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: thing and that
Michaelangelo: Yeah. this form and structure and art all combined, You know, and, and this is what I'm talking about, like why I am relevant still, and I'm still [00:28:00] shocked. I always feel like I'm going to be irrelevant at any given moment, is because I've lived. Decades to trying to do this.
So I'm constantly studying what was done. how can I do it better?
Tweaking the formula. Tweaking the formula, and now I truly believe that there are moments I can really tap into unconscious and feelings within somebody. And if I can do that, then I gotcha. I gotcha. And You're gonna walk away from that experience and say, that was a great night. I don't know why, but it was just, it was special, You know?
And it wasn't trending and it wasn't the cool shit that came out last week. It was a formula that resonated unconsciously and you felt it. And then you and I are talking in the room and we felt our energy, uh, escalate. And then we left and we're like, that was a great night. You know, You got me high. I got you high.
And the experience got us [00:29:00] high. So that's what I'm constantly trying to strive. And then obviously design and then hospitality has to be at the, at that level because You know when the server comes over. and They know exactly what to say or they, they already have that drink in their hand before you've even said, can I get another one? Um, and their personality shines. That's what we call hospitality magic and the moment of all, You know, where it all comes together and it just perfectly flows. So I'm very lucky to work at Starwood where everybody's insane. Everybody's trying to be the best that they can be and everybody's pushing each other to work in concert to create that, that perfect formula.
And, um, it feels like being in the Marines sometimes. Um, and I really like that 'cause it brings me back to like the old days where nothing mattered except excellence.
Dan: so much in the same way that the demographic of the, of the,
of [00:30:00] the guest or the, the patrons has changed over the past 15 or 20 years. How have the, how have, what brands are asking you for today,
how has that changed over the past 10
years
Michaelangelo: Um,
Dan: or 15 years?
Michaelangelo: yeah, I think as of late. Lately, a lot of the strategy component of it is what they're coming to me for. You know, I'm not out till four or five in the morning like I used to be every night, You know, uh, picking up the, the micro cultural. Little seeds, You know, and then bringing 'em into something. I'm, I'm stepping back and looking at massive trends and then saying, how do I create the infrastructure so that when I do hire the music director here, or we are hiring, um, a, a, a bunch of resident DJs within a particular genre of music that trends in, let's say, ebi a this summer, or. Somewhere else. Um, you have ultimate control over
[00:31:00] over
all the dynamic pieces across your portfolio, and that's, that's looking at sound and experience through infrastructure. You know, like I said, like a, like a, like a, a visual brand bible or a design schematic on how you're gonna build a space. Um, it's the strategy that allows a brand.
So if I'm gone, if I do this and then I leave. If you have a legacy document, if the CEO leaves, you have a legacy document. If the, if the VP of the company comes in, you have a legacy document, You know exactly where it is, and then you can update it accordingly, right? But you have like a brand, DNA component, um, in sound for your brand, like gives you a roadmap and strategy to always apply and then you're just tweaking the formula with maybe different trends, but you need core values. Core values should never change. The trends are just little, little sprinkles on top of the sundae.
Dan: I agree. And, and the values are the ones that are the hardest [00:32:00] to get right and take the longest in my opinion. But when yeah, and every, you attract the right people to work there, you're yeah. yeah, It makes it so much easier to execute on what that vision is. yeah. And then I wanna go back to, um. The, the Richard Branson and his team for, for the version Yeah. that you did. So the first deliverable in, in like when, when you kind of went parabolic was staying up for a couple days, getting that deck or I don't know what it be, getting the deck together for Tom Ford.
Michaelangelo: Oh, no, I was, it was, I was remixing, I I was actually producing, yeah,
I was remixing, uh, music. Yeah, yeah.
yeah,
Dan: You said you got three tracks for Tom
Michaelangelo: yeah.
Dan: and you, you did that deliverable and it changed the course of your life.
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: then fast forward to Richard Branson. You didn't just get him three tracks, you did the your was, I think that you alluded to the fact that that was your first Sonic brand Bible.
How did
Michaelangelo: Yeah,
Dan: when you, like, how did You know [00:33:00] when that deliverable was done for you, and then what was it like when you presented it to them?
Michaelangelo: well think of, uh, a ship as a layer cake, Right. And each layer has a different floor on it and different set of experiences. Um, I think there were 10 or 12 restaurants on the ship. There was something like 30 different venues of experiences, whether it was like the theater show, the, the drag queen brunch, the Italian restaurant, the Japanese, the barbershop, right? So it's a village within on, on the water. So. What they asked me to do. Um, 'cause I had, at the time I had a, I had a creative agency and it was, uh, sensory branding and cultural programming. So how do I manipulate the five senses to really engage the guest experience? And how do you create architecture around each of them?
Right? So if it's scent branding, You know, working with a particular nose to create something that kind of feels like the story that you're telling the guest, [00:34:00] um, within. Virgin, they had no understanding of like how to take
the pedigree of Richard Branson or the Virgin brand and distill it down to a new experience.
Right? They were looking to break, uh, the cruising industry and reinvent it, right? Because it's, it's more cattle call. You know, you get on a massive 8,000 person ship and you just eat and sit there, right? And this is a very, um, very high touch, high experience, uh, Cruising experience, right? Geared to a younger audience that have never cruised before. So we went across every single floor, um, seven days on the ship. The emotional arc that we wanted to take the journey, the, the guest on from intimidation when you first get on the, the boat to the second day or third day to opening up to the fifth day of like [00:35:00] acceleration and then the seventh day reflection. Um, so I had to create this master Bible of how do you take the guest on this crazy journey? What is every single outlet's point of view on a music experience? and then how does the layered cake all come into play so that when you'd cut a giant slice straight down the middle and eat it, you're like, wow, that was my brand.
Um, and we worked on that for, I don't know, about two years, You know, to Yeah. Yeah. I know it was because we were building the shit from scratch and, You know, I had to take that deck and pitch it to Bain Capital so that, um. You know, the Virgin team didn't seem insane on investing a lot of money into building this strategy.
Um, but it has paid off exponentially. 'cause You know, they built I think four or five ships and they have this Sonic brand Bible that they can then program against. Yeah.
Dan: [00:36:00] So I know you've mentioned a couple of these events, whether it be Tom Ford, the Deliver deliverable to Branson, working continuously.
With the likes of the, of the Starwood team and through one hotel and tree house and all those awesome
kind of super innovative hospitality
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: But if you were to look back, what are some other projects that you've worked on or tracks that you've laid that really gave you the chills?
Like when do You know? Is there a point where you get the chills or goosebumps and you're like, fuck, that was awesome, and you just know that you've hit it? Because one of the things I found in just. Photography or art or writing is I have to iterate, iterate, iterate, and then I just know when it's right.
So how do you, what's a project that when you think back, it still gives you chills? And
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: that moment and apply it when you
onboard a new client
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: to that point of chills?
Michaelangelo: I would say
W [00:37:00] Hotel, You know. Um. When I got hired to be global entertainment director,
You know the hotel industry was just heads in beds, right? That's what people did. They went there, they slept, they got up and they did their thing. And the reason why they were in town, W Hotel was a category buster.
They reinvented hospitality. by, You know, offering food and beverage and cultural touch points to, for the guests to stay in the hotel and never leave. So when I came on right during financial crisis, um, they, I think it was more of a fluff piece. The people that on the team that hired me knew me from the fashion days.
So they, they were like, oh, like. This guy could do something. Um, but then I started re like, but I had a point of view, that was the
thing. I had scored a bunch of films. I had scored probably like 300 TV commercials at the time. I was a record producer and I was [00:38:00] like kind of the IT guy producing fashion shows in Milan, Paris, London, New York, Berlin, and now you're gonna give me hotels. Are you fucking kidding me? Like I had so much like, ah, ah, but also. You know, I was out till five in the morning every night and I thought I was the shit, You know, as far as like in it, You
know. Um, so building
that identity really
changed
the industry from what people tell me. You know what I mean? Um, like we created a soundtrack. That defined such a moment in time within a hotel space. Um, to this day, I still get emails from people and they're just like, that, that WCD you made was just like, just forever frozen in time of like my life and those moments, and it was just like
such an incredible experience.
And then I got to scale that, that IP that I was creating. Globally, and I think I opened up 25 hotels all throughout Asia and [00:39:00] Europe, and every time I went to another destination, I would, they would send me first with the cultural Bible and the Sonic Bible that I was playing with. I would identify all the cool kids in a city who resonated in the same sonic space that I did. I would indoctrinate them into the W Hotel philosophy, and then I would pull them into the hotel as the local music ambassadors. So all of a sudden, every time I opened a hotel, I had the coolest motherfuckers in every city being the people that were like running zeitgeist in every city. And that's how w during that period of time, it was just like home run after home
run, after home run that that we
built.
And you find those taste makers in each town?
You
know, the world back then was quite small, You know what I mean? And I, I, knew so many people, so many people. So I would just call up, You know, I don't know, like,
Dan: Like St. Petersburg [00:40:00] Yeah. yeah, which one did you do? You did Moscow
Michaelangelo: Yeah. St. Petersburg.
Dan: Okay. So how how do you find
Michaelangelo: You
know, you, you, you,
Dan: maker there?
Michaelangelo: you start hitting your friends you call Dmitri from Paris that You know has been spinning there and you're like, Hey dude, who's the cool kids in town? Or you call Thievery corporation or You know, Paul Oakenfold, like, all my friends at the time were, were these killers, You know?
And be like, who am I talking to? And then I land in a, in a city and I already have five, six people that are like. Shit in there. And then I'm saying, I'm opening a hotel, let's talk. Let's figure this out. And then all of a sudden start tweaking the formula. How are we going to take the brand values and the cool underground stuff in a city and then pop it right into the W and then boom.
And I would do that, You know, six months prior to opening. So there would be so much hype. From the influential people in a city. So by the time we opened up, You know what I mean, they were, they were kings and queens at at, and they had their own [00:41:00] home. And then I would stay in contact with them all the time.
Dan: I think that's also something that we could all learn. I mean, we all should be doing as leaders also is to find. Are replacements in effect. Right. Yeah. and, and, and maybe that actually goes full circle
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: to the mentor thing. I. ta that tastemaker in
Michaelangelo: yeah.
Dan: St. Petersburg,
did you, did you, you probably didn't rip 'em down as much as Mr. Purdy ripped you down, right?
Michaelangelo: No, no, no, I'm, I'm, I'm, what do you call it? First and foremost, I, my code is to pass it on. right? It's so important to pass it on. So my days at the WI really put on a lot of people. You know, they knew I was the big boss, like for the brand,
but I. If they were good people and they had good hearts and they were talented, I would invest a lot into them.
And then I had no ego about it. I would be like, okay, now you, you [00:42:00] run Asia or you run France or something. So, um, and they always, I, You know, I was a little older when, when everything hit, I think I was 36. 37 by the time w had, uh, hired me. So, You know, as I started going getting closer to 40, I mentored a lot of people.
And right now, specifically, like I, I see myself as only a mentor to a lot of the young kids that are, You know, I'm empowering to run different hotels. Um, I'm not the cool guy anymore. I, I'm, I'm, I've, I've come to terms with that, but I am,
Dan: think you're pretty cool.
Michaelangelo: That's 'cause I didn't jump in the water. You know,
they were like, who's this guy? He thinks he's too cool, You know?
But,
um, but in honesty, I think like the biggest joy that I have right now is, is, mentoring and trying to elevate as many, many young musicians. And part of that is me understanding how difficult it is to be creative in this space. [00:43:00] Period. End Stop, You know, you work for a private equity company, they don't give a fuck about creativity.
They, it's, it's a mark on the spreadsheet and it, and it, and they expect a hundred percent ROI on that right. Um, culture. And Cool does not have a line item on the spreadsheet, but yet they demand a 20% return. So it is hard to get a young creative into that space because. You know, it's, it's sometimes a thankless environment, with the expectations that of business, um, And IRR and all these other things, so like I, some often,
You know, they need to be heard.
They need to be told they're great at what they do, and that I love them and I trust them, and I see them and I see their talent. But at the same time, they also need to be told that this is an opportunity for you to pay your mortgage. And have a career. So there are times where you just need to shut up, [00:44:00] Swallow your pride and listen.
And if you have a problem, you call me up and then I'll back you, or I will fill you in on what that, what really happened, not the egoic engagement that you thought was, um, and You know, I wish I had people
people
like that while I was ascending. You know, maybe I would've autocorrected a couple moments in my ego at different moments in time, but. Um, You know, at the end of the day, I, I love humans and, and I wanna see them succeed. And I also want people that put in who believe that putting in the time
should
be rewarded.
You know, a lot of people don't put in the time. They just expect it. Yeah.
Dan: is amazing how, You know, the, the private equity, the owners, the allocators of capital, are expecting a 20% return. And in what I do, furnishing hotels. FF and E, which is furniture fixtures and equipment is always the last line item on a budget, [00:45:00]
but the architects and the designers and all the manufacturers that touch that last line item, sound branding is probably even below the
line on that one, right?
Because that's operating. But, and to me those things are asymmetrically more important. much of the brick and mortar and just what is getting built up outta the ground, because that's the thing that people remember. That's the people that, that's where the clients have their, their, their impressions and their memories, and that's what draws them back.
And it's almost like, I feel like that stuff should almost go to the top,
Michaelangelo: Yeah. That's where magic happens,
You know? And. if sound infrastructure is shit. No matter what music you're pumping through, the experience falls flat. And then you've designed this space and you've spent so much money on it and the experience just falls flat. Or you can [00:46:00] design a space that's just passable, but the sound experience is like effortless, like a, like a Ferrari humming, and people were just like, woo, this feels so good.
Um, I struggle with that with different clients and it's the, it's the investment in, in infrastructure, You know, that is so important, especially nowadays. I mean, this is, this is one of the trends for younger generations that are inheriting all the money. They know good sound, period. You know what I mean? They have great speakers, they have great headphones, they have great clubs that they go to, they travel the world and all these different kind of cool beach clubs and, and late night clubs. They all put in great sounds. So if they go into a, a hotel experience or, or a a hotel lobby or bar experience and it sounds like shit, they know, You know, and, and.
they'll, they won't have that extra drink
Dan: I
[00:47:00] love how you keep bringing up this, uh, the 1.7 trillion because as much as we, there's this fear of unknown about like what
ai, and I don't like
what the computers and the robots can bring. There's this on the other side of that coin, which I don't think a lot of people, I don't know why more people don't talk about this.
'cause I think it's very optimistic. I think the AI thing could be optimistic too, depending on how you look at it, but
Michaelangelo: the
Dan: 1.7 trillion that Michaelangelo is referring to is there's this huge,
I think it's the largest it is. I don't think I know the
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: transfer of wealth in the history of humanity is going to happen when the baby boomers start passing on and leaving their
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: to their kids and like, what does that mean for what is next?
I have no idea, but that's a lot of. Dry powder that's coming to everyone. And I, I, and it's interesting as, as people change and needs and desires and wants or, or [00:48:00] perceive to change 'cause maybe they don't really, gonna really, I think, be a laboratory or fuel for some really incredible breakthroughs.
And with that, I'm gonna ask you, like, if you were to design the soundtrack for the next decade of
hospitality, what do you think it would sound like?
Michaelangelo: Oh God. Um, I mean, I, You know, I, I'm, I think in context of 24 hours and several days, 72 hours. right? 24 hours on and a 72 hour experience. So, um. it crosses every single genre and every single emotional, uh, arc that I want you to have. So, You know, Bossanova or some very soft down tempo singer songwriter stuff has an absolute place in the morning. You know, when you want to be more reflective about your, your morning time or the relaxation. Um. An indulgence in the trip that you're having. [00:49:00] And then, You know how it's not so much genres, I think is, is, um, energy and emotional context throughout the day and how effortless it needs to. Kind of go up every two hours is another kind of bump up and another bump up and another bump up. Um, so the soundtrack is effortless. And in my opinion, when I curate music for these experiences, I, again, I just go back to the what I know, and that is produ, uh, curating music from artists that. It's very clear that they've put the time in to be great at it. So the production is, is high quality. The, the vocal talents or the performances are very high quality and they are paying homage to the greats from the past. You know, the moment you start getting into formulaic production is the moment that you are Starbucks of music, You know, or experiences. And there are a lot of brands that that serve that [00:50:00] up. You know, whatever's playing on the radio is playing inside theirs, but Luxury, like high-end luxury is, is, is high touch, bespoke, cur cur curated experiences, in my opinion.
Dan: How do you, okay, so I, I get this driving around in my car with my kids, like they'll want to play. Whatever they wanna play, I let them play it. Um, but sometimes when I'm driving around, they're like, what is this music? What is, I just, I just want to be on random from some DJ somewhere. Just take me
on like a journey.
Whatever the journey they're doing, I just Yeah. 'cause I find, I get so used to
listening to the same things over and over and they do too. But Sure. I just like someone like you to serve up. things, new playlists,
new new themes, new
a new journey for me while I'm
Michaelangelo: Yeah. because there is a generation gap, um,
it's a discovery engine. So you always wanna offer new and next artists that are, are offering, uh, [00:51:00] a very rich point of view, but then you need to tie 'em back to through lines to some of the greats. Right. Um, because the divide is so great in our age groups. You know, when you do drop a Marvin Gaye track or you drop a, um, You know, a shot, a track, You know, of course we've heard it a million times, but like in context. To the cocktail night, uh, You know, in the lobby, and all of a sudden your love is king. Drops on, or, You know, hold onto our love and shot a like, people are like, woo.
It's timeless, right? So how do you emerge the timeless mastery and art artistic voices with the new generation that also is trying to hit the same nodes? That's how I approach things. That's why I stay in my niche. You know what I mean? I'm not looking to step out of that character that I'm trying to make you feel like you are inside the film, which is the backdrop of the hotel.
Dan: Yeah, I guess I [00:52:00] just feel like me, unlike you, I have such a limited quiver and all the arrows in the quiver for
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: me is just so limited and it's just, I love that you've dedicated your life to the expanse and also, but you're able to really. Pull those arrows out of the quiver to like take that whole expanse, but like really narrow it down on a very specific
sonic architecture to me. I it's, it's phenomenal
and I'm jealous.
Michaelangelo: well that's 'cause
I studied music since I was seven,
Dan: Yeah.
Michaelangelo: You know, and I, I was, what's the word? I was. supposed to be a a, a bus boy.
Dan: Hmm.
Michaelangelo: You know,
I was supposed to evolve past me
Dan: What were you, what?
Michaelangelo: violin. I went to, yeah. Manhattan School of Music violin and as a child and yeah. And now, I mean, honestly, it's my frontline warriors, right?
The, the young kids that are, [00:53:00]
once you've identified the sonic strategy, then you fill it with the, just the young cool kids that are, that are killing it. You know? Like, I was just in one hotel Miami,
and
I was on the rooftop of water, and they're just printing money because the experience is so fun and rich and, um, and the DJs are killing it.
And I just sat there and I shazamed like 400 songs. I was like, this is a great one. Oh, this is a great one.
Dan: Well, and you also got, I, I love it also when the Shazam can't pick it up, right?
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: Ooh, what the hell
Michaelangelo: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Dan: Um, so kind of a, a humorous as we round third base and Roll Hall of Fame inductions are coming up. Is Mariah Carey making it in?
Michaelangelo: I mean, she should, I mean, let's, let's remove her insanity aside, like she's in Very insane in how she acts and the Diva esque. But as far as a legacy goes, um, I would say my favorite part of Christmas is, [00:54:00] uh, singing that song for like. A month straight until nauseam. that one and, and uh, and Donnie Hathaway
Dan: Yeah. on. Yes.
Michaelangelo: Christmas.
Dan: it happens earlier and earlier and earlier.
Michaelangelo: Oh yeah, I mean, like, they're playing it like in Halloween nowadays. It's kind of crazy.
Dan: But the other thing that's messed up about rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I think, and I don't really wanna spend too much time on this, but like.
Michaelangelo: Sure.
Dan: Iron. I'm just looking at the nominees right now.
Michaelangelo: Uhhuh,
Dan: I brought up Mariah Carey, black Crows. How are they not in Phil Collins? How's he not in
Michaelangelo: I mean, How are they not in
yeah. No, that's
Dan: Iron Maiden did I say that? NXS. What the hell? So it's just a weird, it's, it's a weird thing.
Michaelangelo: I don't know what, uh. The criteria are, I mean, it just sounds asinine, You know, like Rock and Roll's dead, so why isn't fucking everybody in the Hall of Fame [00:55:00] because they
created it. You know, there's no rock and roll. I mean like, what is rock and roll now,
Dan: I don't know.
I guess it's just wearing a pair of leather pants and rocking off. Rocking and rolling.
Michaelangelo: I
I mean, I'll, I'll plug my, uh, one of my dearest friend named Andy, his son, is, uh, somber and I've watched him grow up and produce music and now he's like one of the biggest artists of, of 2025. Massive.
like within nine months, he just blew up on the cover of like Rolling Stone and Vogue. And I mean, he's just, he's the man.
It's amazing to watch, uh, such a young, talented person. Kill it
out there.
Hope, hopefully I'll get tickets to his show for free.
Dan: Hmm. That's awesome. Well, look, Michaelangelo, I've enjoyed all of our time together in person, uh, remotely and even here. If people wanted to learn more about your sonic architecture, how do,
and you, what's a good way for them to get in touch and connect [00:56:00]
besides Um, my.
Shazam?
Michaelangelo: Um,
my, uh, my website, uh, la qa.net and LinkedIn. Always.
Dan: Great. And if you're in Toto
Santos,
Michaelangelo: Yeah.
Dan: give him a shout.
Michaelangelo: Look
me up.
Dan: knows all the spots. Michelangelo, I've loved this so much and I just Thank you. What an honor. do this for years, so thank you.
Michaelangelo: What an honor. And I appreciate you inviting me on.
on.
Dan: And also thank you to all of our listeners. Without you and your continued tuning in, we wouldn't be speaking to such amazing people like Michaelangelo and Taste Makers, and how taste makers find taste makers. If you think that this can. How someone thinks about ho hospitality or sonic architecture, please pass it along and don't forget to like and subscribe and we'll catch you.
[00:57:00]