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Orthodox Christian Parenting, hosted by Faithtree Resources Executive Director (and mom of four!) Michelle Moujaes, is a weekly podcast for parents and grandparents navigating the holy struggle of raising kids in the Orthodox Faith. Each episode offers honesty, encouragement, and practical wisdom from the Church—creating space to exhale, freedom from the pressure to be perfect, and openness to grow as you raise children who are deepening their knowledge and love of Christ.
You are being trained to be the eternal companion of Christ. You are his bride. You're gonna sit on the throne with him. It says, we are going to judge the angels. We don't have a clue how to do that.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Everything in this life is preparation for eternity. Everything. And I ask young girls, listen. When you're making a tough decision, here's what you need to ask. How does this decision affect eternity?
Michelle Moujaes:Welcome to Orthodox Christian Parenting, where we bring the church's timeless wisdom into the everyday chaos of raising kids. I'm Michelle Moujaes, and today we're talking about something that is really important to me, like really, really important to me. Talking about modesty. Now I know this might be a tricky conversation to have, and I'm pretty sure there are going to be things we talk about today that some people won't agree with, and that's okay. I'm not interested in being divisive, but I am interested in being honest.
Michelle Moujaes:And I'm anxious for us to have this conversation because I really believe it matters. Here's why. What we wear and how we present ourselves matters because we belong to one another. And as members of the body of Christ, we're not living in isolation. We have responsibilities toward one another.
Michelle Moujaes:We are called to love our neighbor, to guard our own hearts, and to do what we can to help one another pursue holiness. So as much as I'm teaching my sons that they are responsible for their own thoughts, their own eyes, and their own behavior, I'm also teaching my daughter that she has a responsibility to dress modestly, to protect the purity and dignity of herself and insofar as she can avoid contributing to the temptation or falling of another. Saint Clement of Alexandria speaks about this very directly. And I want to be really clear about something. This does not mean that my daughter is responsible for a boy's sin.
Michelle Moujaes:Walid and I actively teach our boys self control. They are continually being taught to look away or to respect how they talk to and about women and to take responsibility for their own thoughts and to see girls not as bodies to consume with their eyes, but as beloved human beings who are made in the image and likeness of God. But here is the thing I believe. Both things can be true. And just so you know, I am not, by the way, what you'd call the strictest parent in every area of my life.
Michelle Moujaes:But when it comes to my daughter and clothing, my gut has never once been quiet about it. And after four kids, I've learned not to argue with it, but to listen. My daughter, who just so you know, has given me permission to share this whole conversation today, has told me that sometimes she's pretty sure I wouldn't like anything that she wears unless she dresses like a pilgrim. She's not entirely wrong. So over the years, we've had a lot of conversations about clothing and modesty and what it looks like to be a Christian and a Moujaes and how different people define dressing appropriately.
Michelle Moujaes:But underneath all of those conversations is something much more important. I want her to know that she is not just a body to be looked at. Her worth doesn't come from an algorithm or a trend or whatever influencer happens to be popular this week. Her worth comes from who she is in Christ. And that's really what I wanna talk about today.
Michelle Moujaes:How can we help our daughters understand their dignity, and how do we raise sons to honor that dignity of women? I know that was a lot, so be sure to download the free parent discussion guide linked in the show notes so you too can take this conversation home to your own dinner table. And with that, let's get into what I'm sure will be a very interesting conversation. My guest today has walked further down this road than I have. Susan Wallace is the wife of father Mark Wallace, the priest at Saint James Orthodox Church in Stillwater, Oklahoma.
Michelle Moujaes:She has raised three beautiful daughters, Andrea, Allison, and Amy, all of whom are now married and all of whom are active in the church and in parish ministry, and all of whom are raising children of their own. She has written curricula for women and girls on this exact subject and has spoken at churches, retreats, and archdiocese wide events across the country on raising the next generation. If my daughter and I are still in the middle of the battle, Susan is standing on the other side of it, and I wanted her wisdom for every parent who, like me, is still in the trenches trying to figure it out. Susan, welcome to the podcast.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Thank you. I'm just so honored to be here.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh my goodness. We're so glad you're here. So let's just jump in first and tell us a little bit about your three girls. If you've had three girls, then what did it look like? Did you have a moment where you're like, oh, I better teach into this, or this is something that I need to speak into with them?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Honestly, I never did.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Bet. That's because, from the time they were very young, I was teaching retreats on this subject. Okay. What I love to teach about is teaching women how to live as the bride of Christ in this age Okay. Right now.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Not who you're gonna be, but who are you today. And so they heard this constantly. Okay. So they always knew who they were. So that's one of the most important aspects of teaching modesty to young girls.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Do they know who they are? I'm gonna tell you they don't. And so I because we're we're in a society, they are bombarded with Bombarded. All sorts of images, all sorts of sexual images, all sorts of online influencers, social media, all sorts of things. It's very confusing.
Kh. Susan Wallace:If you're not raising your children to be confident in who they are in Christ, it's gonna not end well probably. So I tell girls today... In fact, I did a retreat in the spring. Wake up, Sleeping Beauty. If you've ever watched the 1954 Disney version of wake up sleeping beauty Sleeping Beauty, here's the story because it's a parable.
Kh. Susan Wallace:It's a modern day parable of our life. Her marriage was prearranged. She was born royal, and her marriage was prearranged to the prince. But then this curse came. Maleficent came and did this curse, and so she's gonna die.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And then the fairy godmother said, oh, no. She's not gonna die. She's gonna fall asleep if she ever pricks her finger on the golden spindle spindle. And so her parents, out of protection for her, sent her out of the kingdom. And she was raised in the forest never knowing who she really was because she didn't live in the kingdom.
Kh. Susan Wallace:That's our story. We were kicked out of paradise, and so many of us don't know who we really are. That's so good. And so we don't know how to make these good choices. And we're sort of meandering through life hoping we're making good choices, but you...
Kh. Susan Wallace:We all make mistakes. Mhmm. We all make mistakes. And thank God that his mercies are new every morning. So my own story is I became a Christian.
Kh. Susan Wallace:I I I was always raised in church, but I knew about God. I never had a personal relationship with Christ. When I was 27, that happened. And so I became hungry. I had to just...
Kh. Susan Wallace:I'm always been a seeker of truth. So I come across this scripture. It's in Revelations twenty one two. And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem coming out of heaven prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I went, what does that mean?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Mhmm. Never have I heard anything like this before. Well... So I began to go back and research. It's all about the bridegroom and the bride, Jesus and his bride.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Revelation is full of it. The the... You know, hallelujah. For the lamb has come and the bride has made herself ready. You go through...
Kh. Susan Wallace:It's Ezekiel 16, and God says, and I saw you when you were ready for love, and so I dressed you. And I put this beautiful embroidered garment on you, and I put earrings in your ear, and a ring in your nose, and gold bangles. God's all about clothing. Clothing is iconic. It is an icon.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Like actual clothing? Actual clothing. Saint Paisios said, what you wear reflects the condition of your soul.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh my gosh. That's so good.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And we think we can hide. We hide who we... You know, what we're feeling, but we don't, really. And so everything hidden will come to light eventually. So I...
Kh. Susan Wallace:I've had girls watch this, movie, and every one of them have an moment because they see it. You're right. Everybody wants to be adored. Everybody wants to be liked. Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Everybody wants to be loved. And we think that we're going to get this from worldly influences External influences. But... And this was part of my research when I was going through in that Zephaniah three seventeen says, he rejoices over you with singing. That word rejoice in Hebrew means to leap, to dance, to twirl.
Kh. Susan Wallace:It means that the thought of you, Christ is so excited. He's enthralled with you. He's in... Sees you as he created you to be, not who you are right now because he sees you with the eyes of love. Now I'm gonna tell you, Christ only has eyes for you, but he only has eyes for me, and he only has eyes for my my daughters.
Kh. Susan Wallace:How does that happen?
Michelle Moujaes:How does it...
Kh. Susan Wallace:Well, it's a mystery. It's what makes him God. How does he live in all of us at the same time? How does he know all the numbers? He's got...
Kh. Susan Wallace:He knows every hair on your head
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Of everybody in the whole world. Is that incredible?
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:He says, I hold you in the palm of my hand. I have written your name in the palm of my hand. I know your name, and you belong to me. I just think so many of our girls do not realize who they really are, and that is that they are royalty. Okay.
Kh. Susan Wallace:They were born to be the bride of Christ. They were born royal. They, and everything in this life that happens is to get you ready for the next life. So, therefore, all that comes our way is preparation for that. It's, you know, it's our journey to theosis.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Mhmm. My girls always knew. They heard over and over and over, Jesus is enthralled with you. And so they made those right choices as far as Modesty. Now I think you asked me.
Kh. Susan Wallace:You sent me a question and said, did you ever say because I told you so? Mhmm. Do this because it's me and I'm telling you...
Michelle Moujaes:Like you can't wear that because I told you so. K. Did you?
Kh. Susan Wallace:So I asked Amy and I said, I don't think I ever said that, did I? Oh, yeah, mommy, you said that.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, you did?
Kh. Susan Wallace:No. Okay. She said, you didn't say it about clothing. It was about chores. When it came to virtuous things, you always quoted quoted a scripture.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And I went, oh, yeah. I still do that. But there again, see, I think as parents, we have to be intentional.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Kh. Susan Wallace:They need to see in our homes that Christ is the priority of our lives. Mhmm. He's not just a, oh, by the way, we're going to church on Sunday. Okay. It is a way of living.
Kh. Susan Wallace:They need to see parents praying. They need to pray as a family, whether it's morning or evening prayer. They need to hear a parent say, I made a mistake. Please forgive me. Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:They need to see authentic... Authenticity, and they see that this Christianity is very real.
Michelle Moujaes:It's the lens through which we see the world.
Kh. Susan Wallace:It is. And if you have a wrong perception of God, you're gonna have a wrong response to life.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, wait. That's so good. Let me say it back. If you have a wrong perception of God.
Kh. Susan Wallace:You will have a wrong response to life. A wrong response to life. If your perception is... Okay. If I check all these boxes, okay.
Kh. Susan Wallace:I am going to church and I'm reading my scriptures every day, and I'm praying, and I'm doing everything I'm told to do. Therefore, I'm gonna go to heaven. That's a wrong motive. Mhmm. It's it's like, I'm gonna...
Kh. Susan Wallace:God's gonna get me if I don't do these things. So I'm gonna go to heaven. Well, see, that's still about you. Mhmm. Wow.
Kh. Susan Wallace:It's not about him. What we need to teach our kids is, oh, it's no longer I that lives, but he that lives within me. What we need to teach our children is pride kicked us out of the garden, and the only way home is humility. Wow. The only way home is humility.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And so it's all... Even in the divine liturgy, it is all about him.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:All about him. Mhmm. And so we don't come to church to show off our latest...
Michelle Moujaes:And greatest attire Right. Nothing, lack thereof.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Okay. Right. And so I googled, so what is the dress code when you have an audience with royalty? Like, if you're gonna meet the king of England or the queen of England, what... Is there a dress code?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Absolutely, there's a
Michelle Moujaes:There dress is? Okay. What is it?
Kh. Susan Wallace:And here's what they say. If there's any doubt of what you're wearing is not appropriate, you dress up. You always dress up. Okay. So you are covered.
Kh. Susan Wallace:You... Your arms are covered. There is no cleavage showing, and dresses are below the knee. And by the way, women must always wear a dress with an audience with the king.
Michelle Moujaes:I know my mom says to do that in church, but I do wear pants sometimes. I'm confessing to you right now. Sorry, mom. Well, no.
Kh. Susan Wallace:I wear pants to Vespers for sure. Hey. None of us are perfect.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Kh. Susan Wallace:We're all broken people. I just
Michelle Moujaes:needed you to say that. No. Keep going. Okay?
Kh. Susan Wallace:We're all broken people. So we're
Michelle Moujaes:dressing we're dressing something Lord, as we
Kh. Susan Wallace:have pity on me.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Yeah. I'm a sinner. Please, you know, the Jesus prayer. So, anyway... But then, it immediately went to the dress code for royalty.
Kh. Susan Wallace:They have a dress code when they have an audience with their people, and that is this exact same thing. You are to be completely covered, high neckline, dress below the knees. Usually, arms are covered at least three quarters, and they always wear a hat.
Michelle Moujaes:They always wear a hat if they're royals.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Yes. And this
Michelle Moujaes:is out of respect for them. For the people. For the people. Okay. So...
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. So the people are dressing out of respect for the royalty, and the royalty kinda return the favor by being
Kh. Susan Wallace:Respectful of them.
Michelle Moujaes:Respectful back. I like that.
Kh. Susan Wallace:It's... Well, it's that honoring one another, preferring one another over yourself. Also recognizing that Jesus is in you, and therefore I honor you.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:It's like why we kiss the priest's hand. Honor the Christ in
Michelle Moujaes:you.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Yes.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. But let me ask you, how does clothing... Because I can hear people already, you know, writing in or pushing back saying, how do we honor people because of what we wear? Why wouldn't we just honor them by being kind or loving or serving them in some way?
Kh. Susan Wallace:I'll tell you a quick story. Okay. So I'm in Costco.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And the the guy at the cash register, probably 40, he said, hey, how are you today? And I said, I am so fine. Thank you for remembering me. And he goes, oh, no no. I can't forget you.
Kh. Susan Wallace:I would always remember you. And you know why? Because you are one of six women who always come in this store dressed nicely. Oh. He goes, everybody else looks like they fell out of bed.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And I was like, it was... I had that moment. Like, he saw my attire as having respect for him. Interesting. Isn't that interesting?
Michelle Moujaes:That is interesting because now we walk around in pajamas.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Yes. I got on I got on the plane on Christmas day, and I thought, oh, it's Christmas day. So I wore kind of a sparkly green shirt, blouse, and some green pants. And the flight attendant went, you look so nice today. And I went, oh, I'm from that generation where you dressed up together.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Right.
Michelle Moujaes:We talk about that. We used to we used to dress when we would go to the theater. We would dress obviously when we would go to church, but that isn't the norm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:No. We are a society of comfort. We have become a society of comfort. So there again, do we want to teach our children that it's important for their their comfort? See, it's still about me.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Okay. It's not about risk.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. Let me... I wanna push in here. Even though I'm I'm arguing with myself because I'm the one who's like, yeah, everybody's in a three piece suit and let's go. But does God really care what we wear?
Michelle Moujaes:Like, for the parent out there who's saying, you know... And again, I agree. He always says come as you are. Doesn't say stay as you are. So I do believe that we are invited to grow in him, but does our clothing have to be part of that?
Michelle Moujaes:Well, okay. So Allison
Kh. Susan Wallace:Another daughter. Another daughter. She teaches... She helps she helps at her son's school. Okay.
Kh. Susan Wallace:So when they have testing, they have their... The week of testing is called dress for success. And they have all the students dress up because they do better on their testing Oh. When they are dressed.
Michelle Moujaes:Isn't that interesting? Mhmm. That's interesting.
Kh. Susan Wallace:The way we dress affects our our attitude. That's true. And our behavior. Exactly. Exactly.
Kh. Susan Wallace:People don't walk around
Michelle Moujaes:in suits getting into a bunch of fist fights, you know, on the playground.
Kh. Susan Wallace:I heard the story of this mom who had boys. Yeah. And her boys were always wrestling. Then if it turned into aggressive fighting, she never said, stop it. She grabbed the instigator, the son who was the instigator, took him upstairs to his room, made him put on a church suit, made him wash his face.
Kh. Susan Wallace:He had to comb his hair, slick it back, put on church shoes, and then she brought him back downstairs and set him on the sofa. And guess what? No more fighting.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, interesting. I think to do that.
Kh. Susan Wallace:But it's true. That if how we dress affects our behavior.
Michelle Moujaes:It's like that old adage. Have you ever heard you don't dress for the job you have, you dress for the job you want? Absolutely. So I do feel like... And one of my favorite, scripture verses is in Colossians where it's you do everything is unto the Lord.
Michelle Moujaes:Right? So tell me about that. How does how we dress help us, I guess, for lack of a better word, dress for the for the job or for the eternity that we want?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Dress for eternity. Yeah. Well, I think it's out of respect for Christ that... Especially in church that we dress in... For the king of kings.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Yeah. Yeah. Isaiah, we... And we quote this all the time. And I saw the Lord high and lifted up.
Kh. Susan Wallace:King James says, and his... The train of his robe filled the temple. Listen. The length of the train determined how important you were.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, really?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Yes. If you were a royal... If you had a really, really long train, you were a big time royal. His train filled the temple. Now it's...
Kh. Susan Wallace:That's an iconic metaphor, but what that means is his glory is everything, and he is dressed in glory. That's that's what the transfiguration was is they got to see his glory. Adam and Eve were dressed in his glory, and they did not... They didn't have shame until when? They lost the glory, and they were naked, and they were ashamed.
Kh. Susan Wallace:So we talked about this earlier. Satan's goal is to shame you.
Michelle Moujaes:Why?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Because it causes you to hide, to hide from God. Christ never shames. There is now therefore no condemnation in Christ Jesus. That's good, Susan. He lovingly...
Kh. Susan Wallace:The Holy Spirit convicts us, and it feels good. Honestly, we're like, oh, I need to confess that. That's another thing. We need to teach our children very young to to go to confession.
Michelle Moujaes:I agree. I agree. Actually, in, Patri has a book Raising Orthodox Christians in Paul and Cindy Kerros, the authors talk a lot about how important that is at an early age
Kh. Susan Wallace:Early age.
Michelle Moujaes:So that it becomes normalized. That's what
Kh. Susan Wallace:we do. So that they are quick to self examine their motives. That's great. Because none of us really wanna look at our... Ourselves.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. No. But when
Kh. Susan Wallace:you go to confession, feels good. Mhmm. Letting go of it. Yeah. That's conviction, not condemnation.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, say more about that.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Satan condemns. And here's the thing about Satan. It says he was a glorious angel. He was covered in every precious stone. So can you imagine him reflecting the glory of God?
Kh. Susan Wallace:He just sparkled. And it says pipes were built into him so that when he moved, he was praising the Lord. But here's what happened. It said he became proud in his heart on account of his beauty. Oh, proud in his heart on account of his beauty.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And therefore, instantly, God said, can't have this. I can't have pride. Only humility and hand to cast him out. Well, since that day, he knew that his greatest strategy is to get us to be consumed with ourselves because he knows it will separate us from God.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, that's so good. I'm gonna say that one back. Satan's greatest strategy is to keep us consumed with ourselves so that he can keep us separated from God.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Yes. Wow. Satan tried to kill Christ, and it didn't work. So now he... All he can do is bring separation because he knows that Christ will grieve over the loss of you because he's just enthralled with you.
Kh. Susan Wallace:He's enthralled. I cannot emphasize that enough. And here's... There's over 700 words in the dictionary that begin with self. A few of them are good.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Most of them are not. Okay. Like self righteous, self indignation, self pity, selfish Self indulgent. Self indulgence. Yeah.
Kh. Susan Wallace:See, when I do this at a retreat, women start shouting them out. For women, I'm gonna tell you the number one self word is self pity. Our nature is to compare ourselves to other women who look like they have it all together, and they they have this and I don't. They have...
Michelle Moujaes:Even if we don't say it, we do sometimes
Kh. Susan Wallace:We're experience always comparing ourselves. Yeah. And this is why I'm not a fan of social media.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. Me neither, Susan. Because it feeds that 100%.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Of, you know, why are they happy and I'm not. Mhmm. And then you have to ask yourself, okay. I ask these young girls, so where... Where's your worth?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Who... Where do you get your worth? Do you get your worth in whether you have a boyfriend or not? Whether you're married or not? Do you get your worth in you have nice things or you don't have nice things.
Kh. Susan Wallace:You have a nice car. You don't have a nice car. Do you have higher education? You couldn't afford a higher education. I'm I'm heavy.
Kh. Susan Wallace:I'm fat. I'm... I have acne. I have all these things.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Where is your worth?
Michelle Moujaes:So with that being a reality, where whether or not we even make the connection in our head that our self worth is so often impacted by the externals, and certainly, I am not a fan of social media, but it it is a reality.
Kh. Susan Wallace:It is. It's a very much reality.
Michelle Moujaes:So now what? What does it look like if we are impacted by those around us and the things we see or think we want? Like, what does that mean for the Christian who's trying to figure out how to have their worth only in Christ? What do you do?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Well, I think it's not just young girls who don't know who they are. I think there's a lot of women who don't know who they are.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, it's so so true. Can I share a story with you? Yes. I taught the relationship project, which is a twelve week study for teens on identity, intimacy, and good mental health that Faith Tree put out some years ago. Uh-huh.
Michelle Moujaes:And I led the moms and the girls at my daughter's school through it. And I am telling you, the moms were as profoundly, if not more impacted than the girls when you really look at who we are, like what our actual identity is as a beloved child of God. It's almost like we don't believe it.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Well... And they don't know what their purpose in life is. I mean, honestly. And so when I do retreats for women Mhmm. This is the number one thing.
Kh. Susan Wallace:They come to me and they goes, I've I've never known this before. Mhmm. It's that if I just follow all the rules and I'm a good moral person and I go to church and... It is so much more than that. Okay.
Kh. Susan Wallace:What is it? You are being trained to be the eternal companion of Christ. You are his bride. You're gonna sit on the throne with him. It says, we are going to judge the angels.
Kh. Susan Wallace:We don't have a clue how to do that. Mhmm. And yet... So all... Everything in this life is preparation for eternity.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Everything. And so... And I ask young girls, listen. When you're making a tough decision, here's what you need to ask. How does this decision affect eternity?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Sometimes the... Both decisions are good, but sometimes a decision is worldly and a decision is eternal. And that helps then bring care... Clarity because here's the deal. Everybody in this world is looking for peace.
Kh. Susan Wallace:We are born with a peace radar. Mhmm. From the time we get up in the morning till the time we go to bed, we're looking for peace. This is why the tree of knowledge of good and evil was a disaster because until they ate of that tree, all their choices were good. There wasn't a bad choice.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Can you imagine?
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, no. It would be amazing. It would be amazing. Amazing.
Kh. Susan Wallace:But now they know good and evil so that constantly, day every day, they're having to make a choice between good and evil, and that's us. The carrots are always beautiful that's tangled in front of us. Mhmm. Satan is an angel of light. He doesn't come with this horrific, horrible, detestable lie.
Kh. Susan Wallace:It's always a beautiful lie.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:So you better know who you are, and that's why we have to train our children, boys and girls, from a very young age. Listen. Do you know... In marriage... And we know this.
Kh. Susan Wallace:The husband is the icon of Christ. The wife is the icon of the bride of Christ. So how does that lived out? We call the family the little church. Are we living that family as a little church where Christ is the priority in everything?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Mhmm.
Michelle Moujaes:That's so good. Okay. Do we
Kh. Susan Wallace:do we have fun? Of course, we have fun.
Michelle Moujaes:Can we look cute?
Kh. Susan Wallace:And here's the thing. We absolutely can look cute. K. You can... In fact, you want to.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Okay. You want to be attractive.
Michelle Moujaes:Right. Like, you wouldn't go see the queen not looking your best. That's right.
Kh. Susan Wallace:You want to be attractive, and I think you can have, the latest fashion and still be modest.
Michelle Moujaes:I I actually... I think that's really important. I've always been a big Audrey Hepburn fan, and I I could never understand why the Audrey Hepburn version of beauty was kinda taken over by the, like, Madonna or Cardi B or, like, all these new folks that I'm like, I don't get that. But I do think that there is something when there is that kind of royalty and Mystique. Mystique, leaving it to the imagination more than, here it all is.
Michelle Moujaes:Yes. Yeah.
Kh. Susan Wallace:I think
Michelle Moujaes:that's good. So So then let's get practical on that. So for, you know, Walid and I, we took very seriously from the very beginning. We said this is our role to set the course for our daughter, not the school's role, not social media or the, you know, world or the billboards. Like, we're gonna drive this process.
Michelle Moujaes:So if parents wanted to, like, do the Betsy thing and really, teach into that, what... What's a practical first step? Like, how do you even start to think about that?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Allison said, oh, mom, you always told us that, you dress for the kind of husband you want to attract. Oh. Do you want a man to lust after you, or do you want a man who is godly and will take care of you and protect you and
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, I love that.
Kh. Susan Wallace:See you as as a treasure? Oh, I love that. So we give mixed messages.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. We give mixed messages.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Because this is a lot of what feminism has done also. We want to be respected. We want to be equal. We want to be all these things, which is not necessarily Yeah. A lot of that's true.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. And vote. Yeah. At the same time, we
Kh. Susan Wallace:dress to seduce and and have men desire... To lust after us, honestly. There have been times when I've been in church and I've seen a girl walk in and going, oh my goodness. There's not a man behind you who can focus today. Mm-mm.
Michelle Moujaes:I know. And I think if we understood how visual men were created by God, that would really impact what we do. I mean, I've had people say, my, you know, daughters are not responsible for your sons. And please hear this. Walid and I are relentless with our boys to make sure that they understand the worth and the dignity of every woman.
Michelle Moujaes:Woman. And so we do not take that responsibility lightly. But I wanna say to these moms that say, you know, my daughter's not responsible for your sons. I wanna say, yes, she is. We're responsible to
Kh. Susan Wallace:and for
Michelle Moujaes:each other. We belong to You each know? And if if if we know that the way something we do, whether it's an external expression in our clothing or if it's our hair or if it's... Whatever it is, I think we would steward that really carefully if
Kh. Susan Wallace:we understood that, you know, our impact is real and we do belong to each other. We have to respect one another, and we have to respect the Christ in one another. Also, you have to remember, okay, that Theotokos is a mentor for all women. Okay. And Satan hates her.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Oh, I hate that. Because her yes ended the curse. Mhmm. And so he hates her.
Michelle Moujaes:And
Kh. Susan Wallace:so, therefore, we have to try to seduce women to not look at what she displayed for us in her own life. She was very discreet. She was... She didn't even tell Joseph what was going on. Remember?
Kh. Susan Wallace:I mean, he had to find out from an angel. She pondered all things in her heart. And one of the scriptures I was, let your adornment be the hidden person of the heart with the unimperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit. In other words, as we age, our beauty perishes. Yeah.
Kh. Susan Wallace:It just does. Mhmm.
Michelle Moujaes:No matter how hard we try and fight it as a society, because the whole society's fighting. We're
Kh. Susan Wallace:all trying. The whole society. I I told my husband one day if I sin, if I spend as much time on my spiritual life as I am spending on trying to stay healthy, I would be a saint.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's true for most
Kh. Susan Wallace:of us.
Michelle Moujaes:That's true. Okay. But now tie these two together for me. So we have the, kind of discretion and keep all things quiet in your heart, if you will. But then we also have what I heard is it's okay to, you know, be interested and try to be attractive and look nice and dress for royalty.
Michelle Moujaes:Help me marry those two things. Like, what could that look like to be, God glorifying? Because it kind of feels like you have a one foot here and one foot here. How do
Kh. Susan Wallace:you do that? Confidence is a very attractive thing. That's true. So when a young woman is confident in who she is and she will wear lovely attractive attire, that's attractive.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm. Mhmm. But it's not dependent on the external and the perishable. It is not. But it's more in knowing who you are as
Kh. Susan Wallace:a child of God. And confidence. And like, okay. So we were talking about... Amy and I were talking about influencers play a big part.
Kh. Susan Wallace:So what do you do? And Olivia, my oldest granddaughter also said, oh, yeah. No. No. No.
Kh. Susan Wallace:You learn to block those people because they're trying to sell. Mhmm. They're making money on selling clothing, on selling a brand on selling. And so they're gonna do whatever they gotta do. Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And so you you have a gut. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:It's that that radar thing. That's actually a really great call out. I just wanna touch on that. So I have for a very long time, outwardly anti social media, smartphones, all the things. And here we are at Faith Tree, and where do we reach our audience in all of those places?
Michelle Moujaes:It's a struggle, and our team talks about it a lot. Uh-huh. And so what we've kind of begun to determine is where are those lines and those boundaries drawn? Because I think Olivia's right. There's a lot of...
Michelle Moujaes:It's not even noise, but sometimes you don't even realize you're being manipulated or that you're being fed in a way that is much more powerful than you would have. So for example, one of my favorite pieces of research talks about how when young girls take selfies, if they put them online and delete them, immediately it triggers Sephora to send them an ad, a beauty ad to buy stuff immediately, immediately. So it's almost like they've tapped into the psychology of, and they're giving you a solution or an answer. That's so creepy and crazy.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Oh, hey. I'm guilty.
Michelle Moujaes:I'm guilty. I'm guilty too.
Kh. Susan Wallace:You run me on time... Just online looking at something very healthy, and all of a sudden, something about aging or, you know, the latest Korean cream that's gonna help you.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh my gosh.
Kh. Susan Wallace:I bought
Michelle Moujaes:it all. Yes. I did. I did. Korean face care.
Michelle Moujaes:I
Kh. Susan Wallace:got it. So you're just like... And then I get in and I go, what was I thinking?
Michelle Moujaes:What were we thinking? Okay. This is so... Like, sorry. It's a little real here, but it is so...
Michelle Moujaes:Help me bridge for parents because we do all fall prey to it, and our children certainly fall prey to it on... They're just targeted. Just coming at our kids.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Targeted. So so I think that we... That's why we have to be a family of prayer. Okay. We have to be a family of prayer.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Lord, protect my mind today. Give me discernment today to be able to discern between what is good and what is not good. Yeah. And we're not gonna make it in in this war without prayer.
Michelle Moujaes:No. A 100% I love it. We will not make it in this war without prayer. So then let's get even more granular for a second. So I know for my sweet daughter, she's so patient with me because I'm, like, a 150 years old.
Michelle Moujaes:And, you know, the big joke, my mother is basically like Julie Andrews. Like, she is queen of Genovia, Mary Poppins, take your pick. But she even thinks sometimes I'm a little strict when it comes to outerwear. Uh-huh. But I want people to see my daughter.
Michelle Moujaes:I don't want them to see anything else. So what would that look like?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Well, so here's what I did with my three daughters.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Kh. Susan Wallace:So when they turned 12 or 13, I went, you know, middle school is when everybody's really struggling to find their identity. Mhmm. And so... And suddenly, their parents are just, like, not cool. So I always found a mentor for them.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Oh, that's great wisdom. Usually, a college girl or in twenties, a godly who had conquered all these things. And she was living that life, and they could see, oh, well, she's fun. She's pretty. She's not lame.
Michelle Moujaes:She's cool. Yep. I love that so very much. So you actively sought out intentionally an older, young adult woman who had not lame Overcome all of that. And who had surpassed kind of that age and was able.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that so much because that's something parents can actually do.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Yes. And so they would... I... So with Andrea, what are the expectations? Well, so, like, could you come at least once a week and maybe go on a Coke date, and let's go out and just talk?
Kh. Susan Wallace:And then I would give them little bible studies to do. They develop friendships. Actually, they became part of our family. I would invite them over for dinner. You know?
Michelle Moujaes:I love it. I love it. Good for everybody. And I would also say if somebody's watching this and they actually are in a position to be that kind of mentor or that kind of person who pours into young women or young men. Do not be afraid
Kh. Susan Wallace:to go up to a woman at church and say, hey, I love your daughter. Can I be a mentor to her? Or take her out and talk about, yes, or, oh, I like that. That's really great. But can I also say, this is why we have to have community?
Kh. Susan Wallace:In our church, we have the Antiochian women. And so I'm sorry. When you have Antiochian women events, many of them could be events that we invite the teen girls to. Mhmm. Because they need to watch.
Kh. Susan Wallace:They're watching. How are these women reacting to this? And, oh, this is... Okay. They they had a wayward child or whatever.
Kh. Susan Wallace:They were young once. They were young once. And so we have to, invest in our young people. Also, godmothers. Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Mhmm. Mhmm. It is more than buying a Christmas and birthday gift. It's it is actually praying and speaking into their life.
Michelle Moujaes:I know. I actually... Here's a story that I love to tell. So my sweet husband and I were standing in church one time. This was years ago.
Michelle Moujaes:And I saw a younger woman who was wearing short shorts in the liturgy, like the short shorts. And I turned to my husband and I said, I can't believe she's wearing like Daisy Dukes in the middle of liturgy. And without missing a beat, he turned to me and said, maybe her godmother should teach her. And I was like, oh, because I was the godmother. I didn't think to say it.
Michelle Moujaes:I was like super judgy about it, but I didn't even... It didn't occur to me that that was a role that I not only could play, but should play. I was like, no father better mention that in his next sermon that like we have to wear at least like pants that cover us all. But...
Kh. Susan Wallace:Yeah. Yeah. I think it comes from building a relationship.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Kh. Susan Wallace:You really can't speak into to a young person's life
Michelle Moujaes:if
Kh. Susan Wallace:if you
Michelle Moujaes:don't know them. Mhmm. That's so good, Susan.
Kh. Susan Wallace:They have to trust you, and they wanna know that you're authentic and not judgy.
Michelle Moujaes:And that you love them. Love is everything. Yeah. Yeah.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Listen. Love is everything. So Colossians
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Tells us what to take off and what to put on. That's the third chapter of Colossians. I love it. My favorite chapter. It says, set your mind on things above and, take off anger.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Take off malice. Malice. Take off foul language out of your mouth. Yikes. Take off...
Kh. Susan Wallace:It it mentions fornication. Yep. I I am shocked how many young people in our churches today, it's it's not... It's not
Michelle Moujaes:even like a thought. Yeah. Yeah. It's something that we do now. Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:I know. I know.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And then put on kindness, gentleness, forgiveness, forgive one another. And over all these things, put on love. Talk about icon. So years ago, do you remember when Kate and William got married?
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm. Yes.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Okay. So I had my granddaughters. They were in, you know, elementary school. And at 04:00 in the morning, we got up and we had tea and scones, and we were watching the whole thing. And so here comes Elizabeth and Philip.
Kh. Susan Wallace:No. We don't care about them. Here comes William and his brother. Oh, we don't care about them. Well, everybody wanted to see.
Kh. Susan Wallace:What did we wanna see? Kate. Kate and Her dress.
Michelle Moujaes:Her dress. Yes. We wanted to see her dress fit.
Kh. Susan Wallace:The whole world wanted to see her dress. Okay. We were stunned. You know why? Because it was so modest.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm. But lovely. It was gorgeous. Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:High neckline, a little bit of cut here, but not much. Long sleeves, ball rim skirt. It was... And and even everybody that was addressing it said this is a dress that will be copied. Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Well, it's the same way with us. I saw the holy city of the new Jerusalem coming out of heaven beautifully dressed for her husband. The whole world is wanting to see what our wedding dress, our spiritual wedding dress looks like. And yet, many of us are asleep. And then here's the story about Sleeping Beauty.
Kh. Susan Wallace:When she fell asleep, everybody fell asleep. So it's important for us to wake up. And Jesus talks about this. Remember his disciples, they couldn't even stay awake in the Garden Of Gethsemane. Wake
Michelle Moujaes:up. Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And he goes, he prays, and comes back more. And once again, they're asleep. It's human nature to fall asleep. I think comfort allows us to sleep.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. I think that's a good idea. I mean, that's a good point. I would guess that when you were raising Andrea and Allison and Amy, it was enough before the people who have young children right now that
Kh. Susan Wallace:it was
Michelle Moujaes:somewhat unacceptable to just do, like... I mean, people walk around in bikinis now. It just is a thing. Do you know that I actually... I took my mom shopping not long ago, and there was a woman in a bikini top and a diaper.
Michelle Moujaes:I was like, that is a whole new day here. So I'm assuming that didn't happen when you... I know. It's crazy. But when you were And it was before social media.
Michelle Moujaes:And it was before social media. So for those of us right now who are raising kids and trying to navigate what feels so unhinged in a lot of places, Tell me what what would you say is the difference for a mom or that you would have to kinda navigate or for like father Mark, your husband? Like, are there different things or different roles that we play?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Yes. Okay. What are they? Father Mark would always... Or if he dropped them off at school, he would always say, you're beautiful today.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And Andrea said, oh, I I always felt loved in our home and that my dad valued me. I, on the other hand
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Dropped them off. And my my encouragement for the day was be a blessing today because you're blessed to be a blessing. And so... But they they they got that both sides Okay. Of Good.
Kh. Susan Wallace:They got a mix.
Michelle Moujaes:Do think it was important that the mom was the one who kinda called them to task? Yes. You do.
Kh. Susan Wallace:But ultimately, it is the dad. Okay. Same. Especially with girls because girls have a different relationship with their dad. There there is a level of respect there Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:That they don't have with their mom.
Michelle Moujaes:I think that's fair.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Yeah. And so when dad says, this is why I feel like this might be a little extreme because you're worth more than this.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, I
Kh. Susan Wallace:love that so much. When... So when a dad says that, a girl pays attention.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. That's so good. That's so so good. Okay. Last granular question before...
Michelle Moujaes:Do you have time for
Kh. Susan Wallace:a few viewer questions? Yes.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. The last question I would wanna ask is this. Does it look different at different ages for our children? So for example, you know, my daughter, again, super sorry for sweet Sabine because she literally... And we go to a very classical Christian school, but volleyball games, she's in leggings and everyone else is in booty shorts and I don't care.
Michelle Moujaes:So we can control that. But when I send her off to college, probably if, you know, it hasn't been really taken roots in her heart, which God willing it has and will continue to, but then what do we do as parents?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Well, I'm not sure. Yeah. Because college is a whole different animal. Okay. And you better pray that your kids are going to a college where there's an Orthodox church or
Michelle Moujaes:a good church. And a good OCF chapter. And a good
Kh. Susan Wallace:OCF chapter. Because they kinda hold each other accountable. That's right. We have Orthodox kids that have been in church all their life, and they come, because we're at OSU in Stillwater. It's a college gym.
Kh. Susan Wallace:The parents will go, what happened? She just hasn't been in church all year. And I go, give her grace. It's called freshman freedom. And they, for the first time in their life, are experiencing, oh, I don't have anybody watching me.
Kh. Susan Wallace:I don't... I can make this decision myself. I can make these decisions. Now that usually ends about sophomore year, and they start coming back to church. In the meantime, I'm texting them the whole time.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Are. Hey. Just want you to know, I'm praying for you. I know you guys had big tests today. I'm praying for you.
Kh. Susan Wallace:If you need me for anything, if there's an emergency I'm here. I'm here. We have to be... College is a whole different It is. Animal.
Michelle Moujaes:Although I have to tell you, I am a big believer. One of the expectations... So for our boys, we had a couple of expectation. I'm not saying they're right, but they so far have worked for us. A couple of expectations.
Michelle Moujaes:You can go to college, and we're super excited for you to do that. However, the expectation, one, is you keep a certain GPA. Two is that... We actually stole it from Paul and Cindy. Was their idea, but they had to pay for a year of their own college because they needed skin in the game.
Michelle Moujaes:And we told them that at the beginning of freshman year of high school because they can pay with it with scholarships. They can pay with it by getting a job at Chick fil A and working whatever they wanna do, but the expectation. And then the other expectation was they were in church every week because it's such a critical time where they do fall away and they do have freshman freedom. And I think as parents, we really have to
Kh. Susan Wallace:hold them to some level of accountability. What are the statistics? Colleges win many... We lose many of our kids.
Michelle Moujaes:But I don't think it has to be. Sorry. Not to disagree with you. And I love it that you are a community that stays in contact. So the call out is parents find that Orthodox church and make relationships so they have a place there.
Michelle Moujaes:But then are we saying then what is a parent's job then when they're older and, you know, tail end of high school and going into college that we pray for them? Or do we have any say in what they wear? I mean, probably not. Right? Because you don't want robots.
Michelle Moujaes:I mean, I get that.
Kh. Susan Wallace:You don't want... They're they're becoming adults. Yeah. Yeah. And so sometimes there is the consequence of their choices.
Kh. Susan Wallace:You know? But I think if we have instilled in them the value of their personhood and that this is all about... Listen. Why are you going to college? Are you going to college so you can be successful and make a lot of money and da da da da da da?
Kh. Susan Wallace:Or do you have eternal perspective? Mhmm. We have to teach our kids to always have etern... Everything is eternal perspective.
Michelle Moujaes:That's great.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Christ didn't come to... That we might be a better person. He came that we might have union with him. I love that. He just wants to be with us.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Right. He just wants to
Michelle Moujaes:be with us. And and there's not necessarily like this perfect linear path that we all take. Right? Like, that's the beauty of the Orthodox Church is that we fall and we get back up and get back on that path and we continually struggle toward Christ likeness and, you know, to be God glorifying. So mercies are new every morning.
Kh. Susan Wallace:We have do overs every day.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that. I love that. Oh. Alright. Let me ask you a couple of questions from our audience.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. Okay. This one comes from Natalie from Pennsylvania. She is the mother of two daughters, ages nine and 12, and she asks, my older daughter wants to wear a two piece swimsuit like her cousins wear. I said no, and now she's pushing on what I think about her cousins.
Michelle Moujaes:How do I talk about other people's choices without allowing her to judge her cousins or to think that I am? Such a good question because
Kh. Susan Wallace:an excellent question.
Michelle Moujaes:They don't do... Like, we're... You know, we always use this language with my kids. We're called to something different. We're called to something different.
Michelle Moujaes:But then if it's, well, are my cousins not called to that? Then what's what's the answer? What do we say?
Kh. Susan Wallace:I think I would have to say, you know what? Their parents, my sister or whatever, they they have their own rules. They have their own rules Mhmm. For their family. These are the rules that your dad and I have set For our family.
Kh. Susan Wallace:For our family.
Michelle Moujaes:That's good. And... See? And just steer clear of the judgy language.
Kh. Susan Wallace:I... Yeah. I would, yeah, I would not judge them.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is hard to do. Which is really hard to do.
Michelle Moujaes:But I think that's a discipline parents can lean into and really...... Probably would be
Kh. Susan Wallace:internally privately judging.
Michelle Moujaes:All day long. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Kh. Susan Wallace:All day to go to confession. But, you see, that's the other thing is that my girls didn't wear. They were growing up one piece bathing Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Mine too. Mine too. Which again, you know, I'm okay if she
Kh. Susan Wallace:looks a little dorky. I'm thinking... I don't think the camps allow them to wear.
Michelle Moujaes:No. They don't. Most of them in the Orthodox sphere, most of them do not Allow allow
Kh. Susan Wallace:two piece bathing
Michelle Moujaes:bathing suits. Yeah. Which Yes. Is Yeah. It is.
Michelle Moujaes:Alright. This question actually comes from your neck in the woods. David from Tulsa, Oklahoma is the father of one son, and he writes, I caught my son scrolling through pictures of girls from his school. They were not bad, but it made me really uncomfortable. I don't wanna just take his phone away.
Michelle Moujaes:What's a better way to talk to him about this? So I don't know if he means, like, to talk to him about scrolling about girls or what made him uncomfortable, but how would we how would we teach into our boys that the way they look at pictures of women or physical, real women matters?
Kh. Susan Wallace:You're the mother of boys. Mhmm. I never had a boy. But for me, I think it goes back to teaching young boys and men, you know, you're the icon of Christ in a relationship. Mhmm.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Mhmm. And so the way you look at girls, do you do you value them? Do you respect them? Yeah. It gets back to the Ephesians and the marriage thing.
Kh. Susan Wallace:Jesus laid down his life Yeah. For his bride. Yeah. He laid down his life. So this is a self gratification thing.
Kh. Susan Wallace:It's not a humility thing. And...
Michelle Moujaes:So I will mention, it's not exactly, I don't think, David, your question, but I will tell you about a book that I've used not only as a mom, but in ministry, which is called Good Pictures, Bad Pictures. Oh. And it's more like aligned with pornography and like how to keep young people from really going into the trenches of pornography. But I think it gives some great language around how do we look and what do we look at and what do we not look at and what do we do when we encounter it? Because our young people are going to encounter So imagery is good pictures, bad pictures.
Michelle Moujaes:It's written by two, I think, child psychologists, but it may offer some help. Okay. Last question. My girls... Okay.
Michelle Moujaes:Sorry. This is from Peter in Idaho, and he writes, my girls are six and eight, and I wanna start this conversation right now instead of waiting until it's already a battle. Is it too early to start? And if not, where do I even begin? It's a good question.
Kh. Susan Wallace:I think you begin with making sure that they understand that they're not wearing pajamas to church. Right. Right. Right.
Michelle Moujaes:Right. Right.
Kh. Susan Wallace:We start early. We're dressing for the king of kings. That's right. Everywhere we go. Not where we go.
Kh. Susan Wallace:That's That's and everywhere else. We go, we're dressing for the king of kings.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. I love your imagery. Thank you for leaving us with not only Sleeping Beauty, but the image of dressing for the queen. And I just wanna call out, if someone wanted to dress for a queen, how do we know how
Kh. Susan Wallace:to do that? Here's the thing. If the the king of kings... We're dressing for the king of kings, And guess what? He gives us...
Kh. Susan Wallace:It... It's our baptism.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Kh. Susan Wallace:What are we seeing? If any of you have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ, hallelujah, We are to be dressed with Jesus Christ who is love. And we've we've confessed the sin every Sunday in our pre communion prayers. Also in bridegroom matins, I have no wedding garment to enter in to the bridal chamber. It is God who gives us.
Kh. Susan Wallace:It is God who clothes us. He hands out the wedding garments, and and all we have to do is say, yes, Lord. I will dress with you. I will dress the way you would want me to dress Okay. Because I want to have union with you.
Kh. Susan Wallace:And he cares? He very much cares about what we wear. It's an... Everything in this life is an icon of a spiritual reality. Everything.
Kh. Susan Wallace:That's so our clothes.
Michelle Moujaes:So so helpful. Thank you for your time here for helping parents navigate sticky conversations. And thanks to you for joining us today. If you're a parent listening and if you've ever felt like Modesty Modesty was either a battle to win or a topic to avoid, remember that all of our children are beloved children of God. Mine is and so are yours.
Michelle Moujaes:As unto the Lord as we hear in Colossians, it's not a rule on the wall or something you bought at Hobby Lobby to hang. It is the truth that we are trying to grow in our children's hearts. So here's what I want you to do this week. Pick one conversation, just one, with one child, not all of them, just one. Not a lecture, not a list of things to do, just a question.
Michelle Moujaes:Ask your daughter what she believes about her own worth, or ask your son what he believes about honoring the women around him, and then listen. That's the whole assignment this week. Don't forget to download the free parent discussion guide linked in the show notes. And if this episode encouraged you, consider sharing it with another parent walking through the same dressing room battles you might be. I'll see you next week.