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Welcome to the Men of Faith podcast where we’re dedicated to calling men up, not out, to live a life dedicated to our God.
This is more than just a podcast, it’s a community and a brotherhood. In each episode, we'll explore topics that touch the core of our spiritual and daily lives—from the sacred bonds of marriage and the joys and trials of parenthood, to practical advice on health, fitness, and managing our finances wisely.
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Caleb Cole [00:00:00]:
Ultimately, there at the end is the reason I tell couples you need to be intimate every week is because God gave us this thing of sex that brings us together in a deeper way, a soul to soul connection. It's why, when anything outside of marriage is so damaging to our souls, because God created it different. He said, you know, this is a different type of sin when it's outside of marriage, but it's also a different kind of blessing when it's inside marriage. You're listening to men of faith, the podcast dedicated to calling men up and not out. Join me as we live a life dedicated to our God. Hey, welcome back to the men of faith podcast. I'm your host, Caleb Cole, and I am here with my co host once again, Brandon Miller, in the building.
Brandon Miller [00:00:59]:
Hello, Caleb. Happy to be back. Men of faith, good to be with you today.
Caleb Cole [00:01:04]:
Yo, where are mofs at? The men of faith. They're listening, and we're so glad you've been tuning in with us. We're having a great time on this journey of becoming the men of God that we were meant to be. And so today we want to hit a kind of continuation of the last topic. So, last topic, we talked about sexual purity and what it takes. And we talked about putting up, you know, some guardrails, putting up some fences to protect ourselves. We called men up to just flee from sexual morality, as one corinthians six tells us. But today we actually want to shift the little gears.
Caleb Cole [00:01:41]:
I hope that no one felt the level of shame that many of us have felt as you listen, but more of a call up to, to walk in purity. But today we want to shift gears, I want to say a little more positive, and we want to talk about what healthy sex in marriage looks like. And so this is going to be, well, silence for me and Brandon actually just get a little real. We kind of talk about our own marriages, and without using too many, you know, details, we still want to protect some of the sanctity of our marriage beds. But, you know, I think that we do want to be honest with some of what we learned. And for me, 16 years of marriage for Brandon, 31 years of marriage, of what it looks like to have healthy intimacy sexually for decades. And I think it's possible. And not only that, but it could even flourish even more through the years.
Caleb Cole [00:02:32]:
And so that's what we want to talk about. And so I want to start with a joke, though, Brandon. What do you get when you cross a brown chicken and a brown cow? Brown chicken, brown cow. Okay, so, yeah, Brandon, talk to us, man.
Brandon Miller [00:02:49]:
I know you've been married 31 years.
Caleb Cole [00:02:51]:
Twice as long as me.
Brandon Miller [00:02:52]:
I want to give this a reality check. So 31 years of marriage. We started very young and so young, energetic. We got married because my girlfriend got pregnant in high school. And so we started off on a rough, hard foot.
Caleb Cole [00:03:09]:
See, we're both in high school.
Brandon Miller [00:03:11]:
We were 1616 and 17 when we found out that she was pregnant. Married 18 and 17 and one month later our first one was born. So we, we have never known marriage without children. So we, our 7th child is 14. So we, we feel excited that we're five years out from maybe having an empty nest. Some parents are like, what do I do in her empty nest? We're over here. Like, we can't wait to have an empty. We're, we're looking forward to it.
Brandon Miller [00:03:45]:
But along the path, I will say, you know, straight up that there were times where I was a good man when it came to taking care of my wife in that way. And there were times where I was not. Not good partner. And God did a work in my heart in my forties. I'm now 49 and I can tell you that in the last about ten years, 910 years in my marriage, especially in the last few. It has never been better, Caleb. It has never been better. My wife and I have never had a better loving relationship.
Brandon Miller [00:04:18]:
And you know proverbs five. I'm gonna read it. Verse 19 says, she is a loving deer, a graceful doe. Let her breath satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love. And this is something that I let my wife know that this is her to me, like she's. She's my loving, dear, graceful Doe. And I am very satisfied by what God gave me through her.
Brandon Miller [00:04:42]:
And there's such an importance to that as we go deeper into this topic of watering this garden well, because it will always produce if you take that time. And so that's something we can unpack. But I'll tell you, for all of you out here who might be married, might have the kids in the house and the changes marriage goes through when you add the kids and some of you might be traveling, some of you might be busy with work and career and stress and all those things, man, it could be better than it's ever been. But it does take some. Takes some good effort.
Caleb Cole [00:05:11]:
I love hearing that journey and that even now, after all these years, like the intimacy and connection that you have that is so incredible and beautiful. But I want to go back because I think that while you obviously didn't intend to, you know, get pregnant that early. I know that that wasn't probably the plan. Things don't always go according to plan. I do want to go back because I think there are single guys listening. First of all, men and men of God, men of faith. It is okay that you want to find a wife that you are attracted to. So I just want to kind of set this foundational principle for me.
Caleb Cole [00:05:55]:
It was always like, hey, if I'm going to marry someone, I'm going to be married to them for my whole life. Like, I better be attracted to them. And so my encouragement for you met of faith. I think there are men out there who are in the christian world, like, well, you know, I'm dating Jesus. And then, you know, I'm just looking for a woman that loves Jesus, and I don't care about the superficial stuff, and I'm just like, look, we are physical beings. God gave us eyes for a reason and physical bodies for a reason, and we all have types, and we're attracted to certain types. It's okay that you're looking for a woman of God. Yes, she needs to be a woman of God, a woman of faith.
Caleb Cole [00:06:31]:
We got men of faith, women of faith, but that you also are attracted to her physically. I don't think, Brandon, you would have the level of intimacy you still have with your wife if you didn't start with a physical attraction. And so my encouragement just to the men out there is like, hey, we're looking for women that love God, but we are physically attracted to, and yet we understand that their bodies will change, because after seven babies, your wife doesn't look like she did when you met her when she was 16. My wife does not look like she did when I met her when we were, you know, 21, and now we're 42 and 43. But that physical attraction is something that I still have for her, even through her changes and what she's walked through, you know, as a mother and birthing children and all of that. And so I just want to set the foundation because I think some of the guys, like, feel, like, guilty that they, they want to be attracted to someone. I'm like, no, it's good. We need to be attracted to them.
Brandon Miller [00:07:28]:
Yeah, I would say that's a hugely important part and something to know that I've learned, and I'm not by no means an expert on women, but I can speak to from my own case study on this, is that my wife looks more attractive the more I'm attracted to her. So the more that I'm attracted to her. I give her attention, I give her affection. I meet her needs. She puts in effort, she puts in energy. She wants to look good. And as she has said, thank God for me. And times where she'll come downstairs and I'm going, wow, you look amazing right now.
Brandon Miller [00:08:12]:
Again, I'll use the imagery of a garden, you know, that garden produces where you water. So you want to. You want to water your own in this case. And I want to echo what Caleb said, that finding someone you're attracted to for all the right reasons, in terms of their character and their spirit and their heart and their love for the Lord, and that you find yourself drawn to them, you desire them. That's healthy, that's good, that's right. That's from God.
Caleb Cole [00:08:39]:
So cultivating, you know, healthy intimacy and marriage. I'm talking about sexual intimacy. I do think that there's some practical things that maybe some of these guys need to hear from us, Brandon, because maybe they don't feel like that is happening. In fact, we're in a sad, momentous, you know, in terms of marriages in America. I do think there's a lot of dynamics at play here. Pornography being a huge one. You know, the sexual images on tv, movies, shows, all these things.
Brandon Miller [00:09:10]:
Comparison on social media.
Caleb Cole [00:09:12]:
Yeah, all these things that are really affecting couples intimacy. But I mean, the sad point we're at is that I think more couples are struggling in their physical and sexual intimacy that are nothing. That's just based on some statistics that I've read as well as the conversations I'm having with couples. But I think there's some practical things that probably I've seen. I've learned. I know you've learned, Brandon, that has really helped to cultivate healthy sexual intimacy in marriage. And so I want to talk about a few of those. And so I think me and Brandon are going to just kind of shoot from the hip on some of the things we've done that have helped to cultivate, you know, healthy sexual intimacy in our marriages.
Caleb Cole [00:09:52]:
So I know for me, starting was me and my wife made a commitment early on and set an expectation as to what healthy sexual intimacy looked like in our marriage. Before you get married, you're like, it's going to be every day now, obviously, then you get married, you're like, that's not realistic. But then we early on were like, hey, I think we need to have sex two to three times a week. That was something like a foundational thing we talked about. I did like the physiological side of it as men we need to release every 48 hours. As we get older, it lessens. But, you know, in our twenties, it's every 48 hours. We need that sexual release, that orgasm to take place.
Caleb Cole [00:10:36]:
And so with that conversation with my wife, I said, hey, would you make a commitment to, you know, be intimate with me physically two to three times a week? And she said, absolutely. And that is something that we committed to. And we walked out. And I can say in 16 years, that has been still consistent to this day. We made a commitment. Sometimes we have to schedule it because it's like, hey, we got to fit it in. So let's put it on our calendar. Some of you type a personalities have to schedule everything.
Caleb Cole [00:11:06]:
I don't really understand you, but I'm not like you. I'm a little more spur of the moment. But it needs to be on your calendar with its own title of, like, you know, brown chicken, brown cow time. All right, whatever you want to call it. But you schedule it with your wife and then, you know, that's a commitment we made to each other. And that is your way of being consistent. Now, for you, I think, and this is just my personal opinion as well as, as I've done research and listened to marriage counselors, I think that we should be intimate at least once a week. I don't know when I hit my fifties and sixties, it may change at that point, Brandon, but for me, I've told couples, but for me, I've told couples.
Caleb Cole [00:11:45]:
I've said, look, if you're not being intimate at least once a week, there's a disconnect happening. And so even if we got a schedule once a week, that's not a huge commitment, right?
Brandon Miller [00:11:56]:
Especially if you have a date night, especially if you're intentional, like once a week, we are going to be very intentional to spend time with each other, to do a couple sort of outing, to allow that time to be planned, invested in. And I don't mean invest with a lot of money. I mean invest the time, the energy, because we know we're heading somewhere tonight. This is, this is on purpose. And so what Caleb's saying, I agree 100% of being ahead of that curve, being aware of, hey, if this is, if this is just biology he's talking about, you know, as you're younger and having been married in my twenties, that's. That's very true. And then, yeah, as you get older and later, you have to be thinking something. We did, Caleb, is we also recognize with kids that hotel arrangements about once a quarter were important for us.
Brandon Miller [00:12:48]:
Even when we weren't on a big budget. But the ability to go away from our children and just without, you know, keeping it pg, without restraints of concerns for who might be outside the door. Right. Like, just having some ability to loosen up, enjoy ourselves, make it more of a. An event, was important for us because that. That helped fuel some expectation, it helped fuel some thinking. And I'm going to add one more for my own learning. Early on, when we got married, I would say that on a scale of one to ten of being a good lover, we'll just say I had a long way to go to become a ten.
Brandon Miller [00:13:28]:
Yeah. To learn how to be a good lover to my wife. I knew how to be a good lover. For me, that wasn't hard at all. That was like, what? I'm good, you're not good. Like, what's wrong here? But learning how to be a good lover for my wife was a journey. She was a puzzle to me. It was a joy to learn and understand and how to maximize the experience for both of us and to make that something important.
Brandon Miller [00:13:56]:
And when I say our relationship in that way is better than it's ever been, I guarantee that she would absolutely say, hands down, never been better. And it's honestly because I have learned over the years that it's my golden opportunity, privilege and honor to understand my wife's body and to be the only one who gets to be an expert in her and how to be a really conscientious, considerate, and gracious and good lover to my wife.
Caleb Cole [00:14:28]:
I think you said it a couple episodes ago. You said, man, humble yourself and serve your wife. And you were talking about, like, serving in the home and helping around the home. But this carries over to the marriage bed and our sexual intimacy. So I just read this article from mighty pursuit, and they stated that based on recent research, that only 6% women have orgasms in a sexual encounter. 6%. This was married people, single people, all across the board. It then led into this whole article talking about how we operate in the bed, in the bedroom, as men, as women.
Caleb Cole [00:15:17]:
And typically, you know, men. We know that men are, you know, we're not slow cookers like women. We're microwaves. We're ready to go, and we could be done very quickly. Women take a little longer. And so what they talked about was this lie of simultaneous orgasms, that there's this, like, myth that, like, that's the goal. Like, if you can have this simultaneous orgasm, then you've achieved the top level of, you know, sexual encounter. And they were just talking how, like, it's rare that that ever happens.
Caleb Cole [00:15:47]:
Obviously, as men, we can be done quickly. And so what the problem is in a lot of marriages, and I talked to a lot of guys about this, is they only care about themselves. And when they're done, they're done. But our wives don't operate like that. And so I've learned in 16 years of marriage and what's created really healthy sexual intimacy with me and my wife is that I'm going to serve her first. I'm going to make sure her needs are met first. And then, because once I'm done, I'm done. It's a wrap, you know? But women can have more orgasms.
Caleb Cole [00:16:23]:
They can, you know, multiple in one encounter. And so I learned early on, like, I have to serve her first, then I'm able to be served. And when I made that shift, everything got better in our, in our intimacy, in our marriage bed. And so that's my encouragement. I gave the first tip, this is my second tip, is that we would serve our wives first in our intimacy sexually, and then we can be served. And when you do that, you enable your wife to actually experience what apparently 94% of women are not experiencing the majority of the time. And that's thankfully not the case in my marriage. But it's because I learned to serve her.
Brandon Miller [00:17:04]:
So I want to build on what Caleb just said, and it does require in service some humility. And that is, it is very possible that things that you're doing that you think are having one reaction are actually not having what you think it's not having the effect and taking the time and the humility to ask your wife, what does she find pleasurable, what does she prefer? In what way, in what rhythm, in what position? All of the variables that serve her, one might find a little bit of humility in that, oh, I've been doing that wrong all this time, or, oh, I thought you were really enjoying in that and only to hear, hmm. Well, kind of. And as you were describing, Caleb, I'll say this. In my own experience, when it's the real thing, it's unmistakable that you got it right. You couldn't mess it up if you tried once. You know what works, Caleb? I'll just say this. In addition to what you said, I've given myself a self imposed two for one deal has to happen at least every time like I've made that for me.
Brandon Miller [00:18:20]:
Is that because like you and like most men especially, you know, I'll say at my stage and age, you say you know, I'm done. Like, okay. I mean, it's a wrap, like, good night, or, you know, going on. That's not the same for a woman. It's not the same. And the simple reality is I've also had to learn how to make myself available beyond my satisfaction that to understand that just because I'm content, she may not be. And if I can accept that, okay, well, this isn't about me anymore. This is not about me at all.
Brandon Miller [00:18:59]:
I am now fully vesting in something that serves my wife. And I will tell you, coming back to, you know, date night and things that look forward, those sorts of small steps that we're talking about have major consequences for buildup to places where, as a couple, you're creating just a place of synergy and I, excitement and joy. And it's for both sides, both the husband and the wife. A place that it cements the union. It allows you to both remember, hey, this is the single source that God has given us to be satisfied in this way. Let's make the most of it. Because this not only blesses us, it protects us in our union.
Caleb Cole [00:19:42]:
Ultimately, there at the end is the reason I tell couples you need to be intimate every week is because God gave us this thing of sex that brings us together in a deeper way, a soul to soul connection. It's why when anything outside of marriage is so damaging to our souls, because God created it different. He said, this is a different type of sin when it's outside of marriage, but it's also a different kind of blessing when it's inside marriage and it's done in a healthy, covenant way. And it does bond us in a deeper way. And so that's why I always suck up was like, every week. Because all the little petty stuff that's been bothering you when you're intimate physically, it just kind of, like, vanishes. It's like, you know what? Yeah, we got our stuff, but ultimately, like, we're linked in a deeper way than I've ever been linked to any other person. And this is my other encouragement, why we should wait till marriage to have sex, why we should be committed to one person in Covenant.
Caleb Cole [00:20:43]:
I was a virgin when I married my wife, so I just want to say I did not know what I was, what I was doing. It took me several months until sex was finally like, oh, okay, we're finally doing it. Mediocre. At first, I was like, that wasn't as great as I was expecting, you know? But what's great is I've had over a decade and a half now to get better and to become an expert and with only one person and not having pornography a part of my life, there's no comparison in her mind, when I'm being intimate with her, she doesn't ever think, was he comparing me to that other girl or that person he was looking at online last night? Or like, so there's a greater level of freedom in our intimacy. And that's my other reason why the last episode is so important. If you missed it, go back and listen about sexual purity. Because it sets us up for sexual intimacy in a incredibly beautiful way in marriage, when we're pure in the other areas of our life. And so I just want to encourage you guys out there.
Caleb Cole [00:21:46]:
Some of you maybe are struggling in this intimacy. First of all, you got to be a leader, okay? And so a leader has the hard conversation. So some of you need to maybe right now, sit down with your wife and say, hey, can we set some expectations for our intimacy level? Because once a month ain't cutting it, right. And you need to be honest with your wife about that. I need more because I'm a man, and physically, I need more than that. Otherwise I'm going to fall into temptation, right? Not only that, but God wants us to be connected. He wants us intimate. He created us for.
Caleb Cole [00:22:18]:
And the Bible says that if you abstain, it should only be done for a season to devote yourselves to fasting and prayer. Otherwise, we serve our wives. So it's biblical to have sex regularly and whenever the other person is desiring it. So husbands lead that conversation, do it in a loving way. But you better be serving your wife, because ultimately what I see is all these men who are like, my wife won't have sex with me. I'm like, are you loving her? Are you nurturing your. Your relationship? Do you connect emotionally with her? Do you talk to her about your feelings and listen to her feelings? Are you patient? Are you serving in the home? Are you serving with your kids? Are you doing all the things to create, like you said, a garden that is cultivated to where she would want to be intimate with you? Because maybe you're doing none of that and expecting sex. And I'm not surprised that she's withholding, all right? But at the same time, we have to have those healthy, honest conversations about what our needs are and then do the hard work to serve.
Caleb Cole [00:23:17]:
If we serve, I believe we'll be served. I've served my wife. I'm not perfect, but I've served her. And I've never been in a season where my wife has withheld sexually from me. And I know it's because I serve her. I serve her in our intimacy and sex, but also serve her in our marriage and in our relationship and connecting emotionally. And so there's a lot of practical things that we need, we can do to set ourselves up for healthier intimacy sexually in our marriages.
Brandon Miller [00:23:44]:
I'm gonna add on that and just go a little old school for a second. Whatever you did to woo her originally, you might want to remember some of that stuff. Don't be afraid to write the card, buy the flowers, get the chocolates, open the door, do the dishes, do extra chores around the house. Go fix something while she's watching you fix it. That thing she's been complaining about, or get it fixed, or the plans in advance, the effort of the reservation and where we're going to go and planning and putting the effort into that. I'll tell you what. There are things that I'll say in my marriage that my wife finds incredibly attractive. And effort is a big part of that.
Brandon Miller [00:24:29]:
If she sees me making effort and putting steps in place. I recently celebrated our 31st anniversary. And leading up, I wrote her handwritten cards and I had a piece of art made. It was two pictures from when we were in high school. Her and her softball uniform and me and my football uniform. We were looking real good, Caleb. We were looking real good, these two kids. And we used to sign our pictures with love always and forever.
Brandon Miller [00:24:54]:
So I had help from my daughter. We got this, this collage thing made with the two pictures said love always and forever. Established 1993. My wife is not an emotional person. Most of the time we're in front of the whole family, present it to her over a brunch. She cries in front of everybody. And it was just that taking effort. Right? I want to show you that not only don't want to buy you a nice thing when I can, and we have the resources, but also the effort.
Brandon Miller [00:25:19]:
And so going old school, remember what you did at first, because sometimes just going back to that place makes a big difference.
Caleb Cole [00:25:28]:
I think about how often there was seasons of my life where my wife would ask me for a date and I still wouldn't plan it. And now I'm, like, much more proactive where I'll just, like, schedule the babysitter. I don't want her to have to worry about it, because if she's scheduling it, it doesn't feel like I'm putting in the effort to woo her. I'll put it on the calendar and then the day before comes, I'm like, hey, are you ready? Just reminder, we have our date night tomorrow. She's like, oh, we're actually. Where are we going? You know, we're going to this restaurant, but I'm open to if you want to go somewhere else. Oh, and I already got my parents locked in to watch our kids, or I got a babysitter, you know, covering it. Now I've done everything she feels like she's valued.
Caleb Cole [00:26:12]:
I was intentional with my time and effort and planning. She already is prepped for any kind of romanticism or romancing that I want at the end of the night, just by putting in effort. And I think about how many men don't do that and how many men that's so foreign to. So opening the car door, sending flowers, writing a car, like, all the things you said, Brandon, are all so good. And they're practical little things we can do that create an environment where our wife actually feels mood and love and then wants to be connected with us on a deeper level, a physical level, sexual intimacy level. And it's not as hard as we probably make it. But then I was also thinking, like, for, in terms of resources, I actually give all the couples that we do premarital counseling with. I give them a book called sheet Music.
Caleb Cole [00:27:04]:
And so if any of you are newlyweds or you're just getting made, or maybe you're like, man, we're struggling in our physical intimacy. There's a lot of practical, like, even sexual tips in this, but it's, it's biblically based, and so it's not like there's some weird, inappropriate stuff out there, but this is very healthy and gives you some practical tips in terms of intimacy. We actually read it on our honeymoon together, my wife and I, and it was kind of set a great foundation for us in exploring one another and our love. And so, just a practical tip for the guys out there. But I wanted to say one other thing. I know we're going to hit this topic another time, Brandon, but you touched on it. And so I think I wanted to just touch on real quick. And it's this, the physical attraction.
Caleb Cole [00:27:49]:
You reminded us of how we used to look like Brandon. Right. But I know you've been in the gym. I know I've been in the gym. And so here's my other challenge to the men out there. Because you're listening. What are you doing physically for yourself? Because your sex drive will be stronger if you're doing things physically. But not only that, your wife may be a little more attracted to you if you're actually trying to take care of you.
Caleb Cole [00:28:14]:
I see a lot of men, men I know who eat whatever, don't exercise, sit on the couch all day, man. Do something, go on a run, do some push ups, get a workout plan, start eating healthy.
Brandon Miller [00:28:27]:
Since you brought it back, I'll say it. The time in my marriage when things weren't good between us, I was way too overweight, too sedentary. I was traveling all the time. I was eating the wrong food, drinking the wrong stuff. And it was no coincidence that the transformation in my health habits, just the increase in testosterone that comes from lifting weights. And we'll get into this in another topic, but just pushing heavy weights, making my body have to reproduce or produce, right? Not even close. Not even a close difference in libido from one stage to the other. And I'm older than I was then, and so just, I'm with you, Caleb.
Brandon Miller [00:29:07]:
And not only that, but, you know, something about having, having a physique. You're right. She's attracted to those things. She's better with my chest hard than she is soft. If given the option. She's like, yeah, I'll take pecs over man boobs any day.
Caleb Cole [00:29:25]:
And you know what I've seen, too, as I'm more motivated, guess what it does for her.
Brandon Miller [00:29:29]:
That's right.
Caleb Cole [00:29:30]:
It motivates her. And so we actually, it feeds our marriage, even from a physical health standpoint, which carries over to even our intimacy standpoint, our attraction level. And so it's like men set the example I guarantee your wives are going to follow because if they see you doing it, they're like, I got to get on this train. He's looking good. I got to look good, right? And then we're blessed by that. And physically, we're just more capable of being intimate.
Brandon Miller [00:29:59]:
My wife sent me a text last week, Caleb. She was remembering my workout day. She's like, hey, is today chest and armst? And I went, yeah, as a matter of fact, it is. She's like, oh, good, can't wait. Now you, you know, you know, I hit the gym that day.
Caleb Cole [00:30:13]:
He said, motivation, and you know that.
Brandon Miller [00:30:15]:
I'm like, gotta put in some extra ones today. She's gonna wanna, she's gonna wanna know that I put in the work. So I'm with Caleb on that big shout out to healthy habits.
Caleb Cole [00:30:24]:
All the motivation that you needed. Well, hey, men of faith. Thanks for listening. I know this was a different topic and one that I hope they, you found fruitful, beneficial for you. We're definitely praying for all you guys out there that there would be healthy intimacy in your marriage. I think my final call up to you, although we gave you a lot of practical tips today, my final call up to you would be that you would serve your wife. I don't think we can ever go wrong with serving our wife. I think a little bit of romance goes a long way towards the intimacy that you probably are desiring want for your marriage.
Caleb Cole [00:30:59]:
So let's be men that serve our wives in the bedroom and outside of the bedroom. So, hey, love you guys. Praying for you. Men of faith, grace and peace. See you next time. Thanks for listening to men of faith. If you've got questions you'd like us to talk about on the show, we'd love to hear from you. Join the conversation by reaching out in the Facebook group and we will definitely add it to our list.
Caleb Cole [00:31:28]:
Also, if you want to engage with us at any of our quarterly men's events, you can check out projectchurch.com for more information. Until next time, grace and peace.