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An 11-week podcast designed as a companion resource to the Core Series at Chapel Pointe Church. Through deep theological conversations with pastors from our church, our goal is to help you build a deeper understanding of the core truths of Christianity and apply them to your life. From the Bible and Jesus to salvation and the church, our prayer is that you don't just grow in knowledge but that you gain a deeper appreciation for the love, grace, and movement of God in your life. For more resources, visit chapel-pointe.org/core-series.
Well, hey. Thanks for joining us for the Core Series Podcast. I wanna just make a few, general introductions and, prepare our hearts, for these coming conversations over the next few weeks. And so my name's Luke. I'm one of the pastors here, and you get to lead our gatherings, our creative teams to help us know more of who Jesus is and and worship him well.
Luke Bilberry:And this is pastor Tyler who leads all the discipleship initiatives for our church and our our different campuses. And this is pastor Andrew Honeycutt, is currently our Byron Center campus pastor, but it's very soon he is going to be launching the Granville campus.
Andrew Honeycutt:Let's go.
Luke Bilberry:So it's gonna be a lot of fun. But I want to remind us that this course of your podcast, it's it's like a limited release. It's just gonna run for these next few weeks as we get to lean in as a church and talk about our core beliefs. And really, there are core beliefs that are, make us Christians. Right?
Luke Bilberry:But we're gonna even through this series dive into some of the stuffs that make us distinctive as a local church, here in in America. And so these unique factors, we're gonna dive into, answer some questions, and our hope and our prayer is to help you, live fully for Jesus in light of the scriptures, in the light of these beliefs. What does it actually mean for you, your friendships, your family, your work, and how do you live out your faith at the end of the day? And so, we wanna invite you every week as we open our bible studies as pastor Joel leads us, through these moments that you're welcome to ask questions. And so we have, our website has a a page landing for this resource.
Luke Bilberry:So chapel dash point
Tyler Perrott:slash core? Slash series, I think is also part
Luke Bilberry:of it. There you go. I don't know. It'll be some Just lots of And so we're gonna give that information out there. We're gonna keep this also just so you guys know obviously in this moment.
Luke Bilberry:We're gonna keep it pretty low key and relational. At the end of the day, we're all on this journey together discovering more of who Jesus is. And so, we take that very seriously. We wanna take God so seriously, but we don't take ourselves seriously. So there's gonna be banter probably that happens in this space.
Luke Bilberry:There's gonna be us having to look up information and maybe ask questions because we're on this journey together. And so want to make sure you go to our website, look at the course series, you'll be able to download sermon based, guides. So if you wanna have conversations with other people in your life, there is a spot for families to actually lead their kids through it as well. And then we're working on something right now as well, be able to attach some of the some of the things that maybe Joel is highlighting on the Sunday sermons, whether it's information or timelines or some different data points that we are able to curate for you so that you can know more of who Jesus is and grow in your maturity as as a follower of Jesus. And so, I'd love to just kinda kick off.
Luke Bilberry:What what are you excited about in the course series? And, maybe what are
Andrew Honeycutt:you guys praying for for us as a church as we get to lean into these conversations? Man, I love this past Sunday. Like, just hearing from Pastor Joel talking about God's word and how important and vital it is for everything we do and everything we say. And so I'm just excited for more people to be excited about that as well and to see lives transformed by the power of the gospel and the power of his word. Love it.
Tyler Perrott:What I love about this is that I know that people are having these conversations already. So I love that we get the opportunity to come alongside our people in their everyday lives and say, hey, how does this actually flesh out? How does this actually work? Let's go a little bit deeper into some of these conversations. And so to look at what that would look like, and then we get to do theology together, whether it's the three of us or whoever's sitting around this table to have this opportunity to have a greater dialogue and conversation in hopes that it encourages us to activation, to be able to say that it's moving us to be able to say, man, I wanna live as a more fully transformed follower of Jesus and step into that.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. So so kinda let you go ahead and jump in. So this topic, this moment that we get to talk about is the Bible, right, to to understand what what the Scriptures are, and we'll dive into this, but this is foundational for us. Mhmm. This is authoritative for us.
Luke Bilberry:And, so I wanna kinda begin our conversation there. Pastor Joel, at the end of his sermon this past week, he acknowledged, some kind of application points for us to understand about the Scripture, and one of those is that it's the revelation of Jesus Christ. It's the ultimate authority for truth for us. It's life's manual, helps help us navigate. And even when you think about, what we see in the Old Testament, God is all about revealing who he is and therefore how we should live.
Luke Bilberry:Right? It's transformational for us, and it's encouragement for us. And so as we think about those and and talking about the scriptures, I'd love to maybe lean in and and help us understand a little bit, guys, is, when we say the revelation of Jesus Christ, is that just, there's a book called Revelation, in the end of it, is that what we're talking about? Or what does the revelation of Jesus Christ What's pastor Joel helping us understand in that in that truth?
Andrew Honeycutt:Yeah. All of scripture is pointing ultimately to Jesus. And I love this passage from second Timothy. It says this in verse chapter three verses 14 and following, it says, but as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, and how from childhood you've been acquainted with sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Tyler Perrott:Mhmm.
Andrew Honeycutt:All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every So good everything is pointing to Jesus. Right. And it's all things that we can apply to our own lives as we're living in that biblical community, right?
Luke Bilberry:Right. And I love that there's that truth in that passage that we may be complete lacking in nothing. Yeah. And what we understand from throughout, when you look at the Bible, there there there's these threads, I feel like they're they're woven all the way through the Scriptures, and you'll get passages also like in James that you would be perfect and complete as it should be. Right?
Luke Bilberry:And so we see that that's what the scriptures helps us understand who God is and therefore who we are. Would that be a fair assessment?
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. And I think too, right, whenever we look at creation, we get to see, oh, man, there there's a God who created all of this. But whenever we get to the Bible, we get to see this very clear picture where this eternal infinite God has revealed himself and then also the nature of us as well in the midst of this. So we get to open this book and we get to encounter and interact with an eternal infinite God by his word that he has chosen to reel. Now it doesn't contain every aspect of who God is, but it contains these parts for us to know, man, this is who God is.
Tyler Perrott:And I can know him. I can understand him. I can understand the way that he works in this world. And I can also points to this moment where we get to the revelation of who Jesus Christ is. The one that all the scriptures are leading up into this moment to be able to say, the ultimate person that you need to know, the ultimate thing that you need to know is who the person and work of Jesus is.
Tyler Perrott:And that is so vital to us to recognize that we open this every single day, every single week. We have this opportunity to to to have a real relationship with God because it's living and active. It's alive. That isn't just something of bygone era, but it's also something that's active and real for us today just as it was real for people thousands of years ago.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Yeah. I I love that. And and even thinking about this this this word revelation, I'm gonna show you guys how smart I am
Tyler Perrott:Mhmm.
Luke Bilberry:For a hot second. Dictionary.com defines revelation as this, the act of revealing or disclosing. Wow. Listen, I know you're welcome for that. I'm I'm here for you guys, to help you out with, you know, all the smart things.
Luke Bilberry:But I also love how it even goes on further to define as one of the definition, it's God's disclosure of himself and his will to his creatures. Alright, so just so just kind of remove Bible and theology kind of conversations for a second. The word revelation, it is a revealing. It is pulling back a curtain and and and showing something that was hidden, that that was not there. It has now been revealed.
Luke Bilberry:And God in his grace and his mercy has revealed him himself to us through his word. How would you guys respond to that idea?
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. I think that that's the I just my my brain immediately just goes to the start of Genesis one in this aspect where it says, in the beginning, God. Right? There's this assumption that God has always existed and that we I think whenever we begin to see that and recognize that in the beginning, God, God always has existed and that whenever he creates humanity, he's created you and I. We are his creatures.
Tyler Perrott:Mhmm. And in that, we are underneath his authority, underneath his viewpoint, underneath that ultimate authority. And I think we have to recognize that whenever we come to this to be able to say, oh, wow. I am interacting with the God who has created everything.
Luke Bilberry:Mhmm.
Tyler Perrott:He stands over it all. And whenever I open these words, that should change my posture Mhmm. Of how I'm approaching God's word. That it shouldn't just be that I'm flippantly through it or that I'm just going, hey, let me catch a verse here or there. It has to begin to cultivate.
Tyler Perrott:I think this just heart posture of going, I get to know who God is. Mhmm. And that he has desire to reveal himself to his people in a way that makes him accessible. And I think that that is just something that should just fill us with joy, should fill us with devotion, should fill us with I mean, I want to get to know who this God is. I want to know him more fully and understand that as I read his word, as I engage his word on a daily basis, that begins to shape my understanding of who God is.
Tyler Perrott:And as I know who God is, I begin to see myself more clearly, more rightly.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. I love it. Now I wanna say, I wanna say something just first and foremost to get something out the way. During these podcasts, one of the things that we're gonna do is we're gonna mention different resources, and I wanna put just a disclaimer. Right?
Luke Bilberry:There's a lot of information. There's a lot of resources, we're gonna be flying pretty fast. And so I wanna encourage you to take when you take a deep dive, filter all the things through the scriptures, through the conversations, through the community because God has given you his word, his spirit, and his people. And so let's use those resources as that, but we were talking before we hit record, and there's a resource called Bible Project. And then people have different views around it, but I think there is some helpful, resources that they have.
Luke Bilberry:But what's what's the thing, Tyler, that they say often about this about, what the Bible is?
Tyler Perrott:The Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus. And I think whenever we are reminded of that, that whenever we are reading in any aspect, of scripture that we are it is a unified story that leads us to Jesus. So we're the old testament. It's point us in the future picture to go to look at this. When we're in the epistles, we get to look back and say, who is Jesus and what was the work that did?
Tyler Perrott:Obviously, the gospel accounts are the biographies of Jesus' life and who he was and what he's done. And so every single thing that whenever we get to say and see in scripture is this moment to go, is it pointing me? Is it giving me direction? Is it giving me greater clarity and picture of who Jesus is? And I think that that is just such a helpful paradigm for us to think through whenever we're in scripture is to go, how is it pointing me to the person and
Luke Bilberry:work of Jesus Christ? And maybe kind of deep dive, Honeycutt, on this one is to when I read the scriptures, in the beginning, God created and what he did is he spoke creation into being. And then we get the beautiful picture in John one of the incarnation. It says, in the beginning was the logos, right, the word of God. And it's the word of God that holds the creation together, you know, that nothing existed apart from the logos.
Luke Bilberry:My imagination has always been fascinated with this truth, right, that we also get in Colossians, one, that in Jesus Christ, all things hold together. And I can't help but picture that Genesis one in the beginning, God creating in the power of the word, right, and understanding who Jesus is, how should we think about more when we kind of plan on this idea a little bit, when we think about the scriptures, when we think about who Jesus is in this unified story, how do you process that?
Andrew Honeycutt:So every day, I am I use pastor Jim's method, which I've learned from him. And I I I truly believe that whenever I go to scripture, there is something that God is telling me to do. I can learn something about who God is and what he wants me to do. So every day, I start out by journaling. What does this tell me about God?
Andrew Honeycutt:Like, what does this passage of scripture tell me about God? And every day I find something that I learn or I glean, and then every day I say, okay, in light of that, what do I need to do differently? In light of who God is, what needs to change in my own life? And I think that that can be just an easy template for so many people, but just to know that every piece of Scripture has something that that really truly points to God, points to who he is, and how we should change, and how we should live differently.
Luke Bilberry:I've got a fun random moment, so just go with me
Andrew Honeycutt:on this, guys. Because you
Luke Bilberry:said something that intrigued me when you said, when we're in reading things in the Old Testament, we should be looking to where we see Jesus and what he's about to do. When we're in the epistles in the New Testament, you know, like looking back and seeing where where in Jesus, how he lived this out, And then your those bible study of journaling. We've got some friends in the room. We've got Carson and Cyrus and Ramsay are in the room. Ramsay, I would love for you to give us a passage and in real time, we're about to do a little bible study with Old Testament and New Testament and where do we glean from God.
Luke Bilberry:So in real time, we're just we're about to have some fun. So just give me a passage that you think we can work with, which again, we know we can work with all of them for this in real time. But I think this would be helpful for us to go, how does Andrew Honeycutt study and read the Bible? And how does pastor Tyler do this? And and as we see that, let's just have a little bit of fun with the Scriptures.
Luke Bilberry:Sure. Can we do that?
Tyler Perrott:That's great. Let's do it.
Luke Bilberry:Go for This is unscripted and hopefully helpful for you.
Andrew Honeycutt:Well, should should she come over here? Yeah. I feel like she has to come over here.
Luke Bilberry:Come over here tell us because you gotta get on the mic, I guess.
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. And then
Luke Bilberry:you can then Here. I'll get out of the way. Ramsey, it's you. Right here.
Tyler Perrott:Real time. I love how Luke created this moment and then Yeah. Opted himself out of the
Andrew Honeycutt:My
Ramsay Smith:first thought for Scripture was one that me and my tenth grade girls are reading through. We read through this past Sunday was first John chapter two.
Tyler Perrott:A whole chapter?
Ramsay Smith:Yeah. There's a lot there.
Andrew Honeycutt:Yum. But How long do we have for this podcast?
Ramsay Smith:Yum. My first thought.
Tyler Perrott:Now it's a two hour podcast at this point.
Ramsay Smith:What specifically again
Luke Bilberry:Why don't you why don't you pull up for why don't you grab my bible there, Ramsey? And then why don't you read a passage for like a couple of verses and they can in real time respond to it.
Ramsay Smith:Let's do let's starting in verse seven. It says, beloved, I am writing you no new commandment but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard. At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you which is true in him and in you because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness.
Ramsay Smith:Whoever loves his brother abides in the light and in him, is no cause for stumbling. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes. I'll keep going because the those next three verses are, I think, tie into it as well. But I'm writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake. I'm writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning.
Ramsay Smith:I'm writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the father. I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong. And the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
Andrew Honeycutt:So, as soon as I hear that, I think about the character of God. Like, what does this say about the character of God, of his commands for us, like who he is as a good father, as he's merciful to us? I'm writing to you little children because your sins are forgiven and for his name's sake. And so when I start to look at this, I start to, I'll end up going verse by verse, but thinking through, okay, what does this say about the character of God?
Tyler Perrott:I think the unique thing that, like, my mind went off in a few places, right, like live in the light, right? What is Jesus? He's the light of the world, right? So we recognize that we live in the shadow of the ultimate light, that there's an aspect that we are called to step into the light because we follow the ultimate light of the world. And then that that other piece where it says, like the dear friends, I'm not writing to you a new command, but an old one, which you've had since the beginning.
Tyler Perrott:This old command is a message you have heard. It's this aspect of recognizing, that God's word is faithful and true, and its ultimate fulfillment or ultimate command comes through the person and work of Jesus. So we get to see the joy of that to be able to say it isn't that, hey, the old testament was over here and the new testament's over here and they're not connected. It's that there's a unified nature in who Jesus was, The good news he came to proclaim, the way he lived his life, the way he calls us to live is the ultimate fulfillment of how God has always wanted his people to live and respond.
Andrew Honeycutt:Yeah. I'm just kidding.
Tyler Perrott:So I
Luke Bilberry:love it.
Tyler Perrott:I love it. That's so fun. Nice work.
Luke Bilberry:Thank you, Ramsey, for hopping on. And and I know that was a little bit, thanks for going with me there, guys. But I think sometimes it's helpful to see an example. Mhmm. Right?
Luke Bilberry:Some of us are are visual and auditory learners and and it's hard because there are lots of resources to help us read and understand the Bible, but to just have a quick moment to say, okay, so I'm looking at this, and I'm trying to identify the characteristics of who God that's what I heard you do, pastor Andrew. And then pastor Tyler, I heard you in that moment go, okay, this is where I see Jesus, and this is where I see who he is and how his word so you kinda pulled, the tie all the way from Old Testament to New Testament and that saying, okay, all this is working together to again again quoting from from the Bible Project guys is that the Bible is telling a unified story of who Jesus is, and and it is revealing who he is. I think one thing I just wanted to name, in in that is we also have a resource called how to study the Bible. So, there's some ways that if you need to engage in the word of God is is through a simple practice. Observation.
Luke Bilberry:What do you observe? Right? Hanukkah, you were just doing that. I observe these things in the passage. He's writing to men, father, son.
Luke Bilberry:So you got observation. Interpretation. So that's beginning. What does it mean? How do I understand the text?
Luke Bilberry:And then application. It's very that is as simple as it gets. We don't have to overcomplicate our understanding of the Word of God. And yes, it does it feel like it's complicated to live out? Sure, because life's complicated and messy.
Luke Bilberry:But when we approach the Word, what do we see? What do we notice? Are there patterns, rhythms, rhymes, tone, setting, context, interpretation? What does it mean? What what do I know that other passage of the Scripture?
Luke Bilberry:Because it's telling a unified story, and therefore, what do I do with it? Would that be a fair understanding of that that process? My
Andrew Honeycutt:thing is I I think we tend to overcomplicate things. And I think when we tend to overcomplicate things, we do it like sometimes we do it out of a good like sense of like just wanting to get it right, wanting to truly know what what the word is saying. Sometimes we do it as a buffer, like, between us and the actual application, and to keep distance from us from the actual action of what God's called us to do.
Luke Bilberry:That's wow.
Andrew Honeycutt:And so I think we can overcomplicate it.
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. And I think too, I think there's a level that maybe it's because we want to get it right that we have failed to recognize that the only way to improve as a Bible reader and understanding God's word is by doing it. Right. And I think that that's something that we often struggle with is that there's no other area of our life that we go, you know what? I'm I don't know exactly how to do it.
Tyler Perrott:I'm gonna get really good at it, but the only thing I'm not gonna do is practice. Right? Like there's an invitation of reading God's word over and over again, but that's part of the value of the church, of the body to be able to say, hey, you should be reading in the context of community. That there's a level that you should be studying, that you should be evaluating and then going, hey, let me talk to some people who maybe are further along Mhmm. And say, am I reading this right?
Tyler Perrott:Am I understanding this correctly? Like, are all things that we have to develop as followers of Jesus. It shouldn't just be you alone reading God's word. You need God's people to help you, to guide you, to lead you into that, and to go, oh, man, I see something different in that. And that can sharpen and encourage you as well.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Yeah. Because it helps remove any blind spots or predispositions or any, sort of biases that we have. And so I I wanna kinda say just a couple other things for for the sake of the our edification. When we think about how God has revealed himself, there is, from my understanding of theology is there's the general revelation that God revealing himself in creation.
Luke Bilberry:We see that in the Imago Dei of people, this kaleidoscopic grace, Like, we begin to understand that there's something that's wired that morality, you know, in us. And that's ultimately what led C. S. Lewis to faith was there's something inside of me, this morality that I don't know where it comes from, and that led him to understanding the God of the Scriptures and the studying and the teaching and applying it. So there's this general revelation.
Luke Bilberry:But when we talk about the Scriptures, we would call this specific revelation. He has specifically revealed himself to his people, through his word from Genesis to Revelation. Is that correct?
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. So whenever we look at this, this is God's special revelation of himself to his people to be able to sit here and say, I I want to make myself known to people of all essentially now. Right? It is all over the world that he has given us his word as his primary truth and anchor point that we get to as followers of Jesus, people who study the word, live under the word, we get to know him.
Andrew Honeycutt:Mhmm.
Tyler Perrott:And we get to say, okay. Who is God? Whenever we ask that question, it should be running through the filter of what does God's word say about that. Because this is how he chose to reveal himself is through his word and through the person and work of Jesus Christ. And so we need to be people who are if we don't know this and then we have a view of God, odds are high that who we think God is and who he actually is are actually very different from each other.
Tyler Perrott:Or there's a varying degree of who he truly is compared to who we think he is.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah.
Tyler Perrott:And that his word and allowing it to continue to sharpen us and to sharpen our view of who he is as we study it and are refined by it, that is all part of the process of sanctification. That's all part of the process of growing. But we have to be willing to be in this word and submitting ourselves to it and knowing, god, I wanna know you more fully. I wanna more know you more deeply because I think that that's the other hesitancy is that this is designed to help us know him, but also to have a relationship with him. It isn't merely just knowledge acquisition that I want to be able to answer the survey questions about God, but it's I actually want to know him truly.
Tyler Perrott:That it's living and active, and that shapes us, that it should be shaping our daily lives and our interactions with God whenever we open this.
Andrew Honeycutt:It's not just information. It's transformation. Yeah.
Luke Bilberry:Right? Absolutely. And even that's that passage in Hebrew, it's living active. It's a double edged sword that does work between the bone and the marrow. Like, in the the tightest, the deepest place of who I am as a person, God's doing soul work through his specific revelation, his special revelation.
Luke Bilberry:So it's interesting just to piggyback off of your little experiment that you threw. Thank you. Again, thanks guys for for going on
Andrew Honeycutt:the ride.
Luke Bilberry:Thanks, Ramzi. Well done.
Andrew Honeycutt:In light of that, it says in first John one, this is a perfect passage for this. It says, that which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, John's saying this, which we have looked upon and have touched with our hands concerning the word of life, the life that was made manifest, and we have seen it and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life which was that the father made manifest to us, that which we have seen and heard and proclaim also to you so that you too may have fellowship with us. And indeed, our fellowship is with the father and with his son, Jesus Christ. And we are writing these things to you that our joy may be made complete. So, it's that invitation too.
Andrew Honeycutt:It's that invitation to act.
Luke Bilberry:One and as I hear that passage, it goes with this theme, the Bible is revealing who Jesus is. Right? That that's Yeah. That it's talking about a person. Mhmm.
Luke Bilberry:The revelation is a person and the name is Jesus Mhmm. That we would encounter him and therefore our joy may be complete. That's this lens, that we look at Scripture. So what what I'm thinking about Scriptures and how do you guys see people typically approach the Bible? Again, this is a conversation people have been having for thousands of years and there's been a lot of debate.
Luke Bilberry:But what are some some some broad brush strokes that you guys see that the way people approach the scriptures?
Tyler Perrott:I would say like for the average person, that's what we're looking at. We're trying to think through who's the the average individual. Right? I would say that there's a level of the way that we approach scripture is often very revealing of how our view of God. But I say one of the things that I often see from people is, they view it in so much a self help kind of manual.
Tyler Perrott:Hey. I'm facing this problem. I've got this challenge. Hey. I'm really anxious.
Tyler Perrott:I'm sad. How can I go to the Bible to give me some comfort in that idea to be able to handle this discomfort that I'm feeling? And there there is truth to that and the wisdom of knowing that there the Bible gives us wisdom on how to navigate situations. But often I think that whenever I'm looking at, hey, is that actually the primary? If the primary thing about the God's word is to know him Mhmm.
Tyler Perrott:You're actually going to scripture for a solution that maybe is not even outside of your relationship with him. Like, think that that is a challenge that sometimes whenever I look at why people, their lens that they're taking to approach scripture can very much be from a me centered version of it. Mhmm. To go, how does the bible help me? How does it serve me?
Tyler Perrott:Rather than going, how am I actually submitting myself? How am I actually surrendering myself? How is it changing me in light of who God is? And so I think that if I were to say one of the primary ways that I see people approach is from that very much a me centered moment, a me centered idea to go, why does it benefit me? So if I run into a passage that I find boring or find unfamiliar, I don't find helpful, I'm gonna disregard it because it isn't valuable to me rather than going, why is this here?
Tyler Perrott:Why of all the things that God could have revealed, why did he put this here? And and why should it be shaping my view of
Luke Bilberry:who God is? Right. And this would be a typical, like, if you get to, like, some of the the Pentateuch, the Old Testament, the first five books that, like, we start getting into genealogies. Right? I just you people will start checking out, but but I love what you're asking.
Luke Bilberry:Why is it here? Yep. Right? It's an oral tradition that that is passing down this lineage, and there is a common thread, right, throughout the scripture. So this does matter because we also then get to Old Testament gets to New Testament, the 14 generations on the on either side of, you know, of getting to Jesus, that there is a thread and a narrative getting to that unified story.
Luke Bilberry:Would that be one of the like, kind of an example of what you're talking
Tyler Perrott:about there? A 100% to go, there's something here that it needs for me to know. Right? And that's that aspect. You go to the genealogy world to go, well, ask that we in Genesis three, we're given this specific promise about, hey, that there is going to become this promised one, and we need to follow the lineage of where that promised one is going to come from.
Tyler Perrott:And so these these genealogies are vital to understanding, is Jesus truly the one that is promised in the Old Testament? And they're going, yes. This is absolutely the person that is designed to to fulfill this lineage. And so whenever we step into these moments and things of that nature, we have to recognize, hey, that these aren't here just by accident, by happenstance, but they they maybe aren't in our context or our culture, and so they can feel very abnormal to us. But we should be assuming that we're the ones without the proper context rather than the bible is now irrelevant to what I need to be understanding and knowing.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. And maybe even a way using our, you know, kind of post enlightenment mindsets, if I can say that, is this is the this is the data points. This is the scientific evidence, right, of of what you're talking about. What are some other ways that that you see people approaching the Scriptures, Honeycutt?
Andrew Honeycutt:Yeah. I mean, I when I think about, like, generally people utilizing Scripture as, like, some kind of self help aspect, I also think that the way that we interpret Scripture is really important. So I hear a lot of more of an allegorical interpretation of scripture saying, like, you know, with Jonah, was there a big fish? Do you get swallowed by a big fish or not? Mhmm.
Andrew Honeycutt:You know? But it doesn't really matter. What the real point of the story is that there's some kernel of truth behind that that they're trying to communicate in an ancient way. Like, I I don't think that. I I believe that God's word is inerrant and is infallible.
Andrew Honeycutt:I think every part of it is for us. And so when we start to interpret it that way, like, we start to put ourselves over Scripture. Mhmm. And we start to say, well, that couldn't actually happen. Like, that, like, in my post enlightenment kind of, like, framework for thinking, like, obviously, that's not what actually happened.
Andrew Honeycutt:But then, who are we? We're not under the authority of Scripture at that point. We're we are the authority. And so, with that interpretive lens, I think it's really important that we come under the authority of Scripture. Scripture.
Luke Bilberry:Right. And it's when I think about that, it's we can approach this as like Aesop's fables. Again, an ancient text. Yeah. Mhmm.
Luke Bilberry:Right? That, you know, that reveal these small truths. We also see Jesus using that technique with parables in the New Testament, but there's something different about this book, about these writings. And so what would you guys say, help me process, how can we trust this book other than Aesop's fables or some other ancient texts that would say this is who God is or this is how the universe was made or something that how why can I trust this one?
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. I think that there I mean, obviously, this is a huge conversation, Right? There's a level here to be able to go. But I think whatever and I think Joel even mentioned a little bit yesterday is this aspect of we get to look at this and go, there is tons of manuscript evidence of this being true. Because the thing is is that the Bible has far more historical evidence than any other, essentially manuscript content that was written in and around its time, especially the New Testament, the the works, the person of Jesus.
Tyler Perrott:And part of that, it needs to have that because it is claiming one of the old, this is an ultimate truth claim that the Bible is saying it is ultimately true. And then I think we have to recognize if we're talking with other people, man, it's really convenient that the book that you say is ultimately true says that it's true. Right? There's a circular nature of that. So we have to be able to also verify that, hey, there actually is great historical, valuable evidence that there is tons of essentially verifiable, essentially manuscripts manuscripts of this to be able to prove, no, it isn't just from one person.
Tyler Perrott:It wasn't just one person in a cave writing this out and saying, hey. You should believe this, that there is a historical, a cultural moment that happened, that we have a variety of manuscript evidence to give us faith, confidence, and trust, and belief that this is true. Mhmm. And and the dead the Dead Sea scrolls and all that sort of stuff, there's just more and more manuscripts coming out that are saying, yep. This is good.
Tyler Perrott:This is a reliable. This is a trustworthy
Andrew Honeycutt:Right.
Tyler Perrott:Saying of who Jesus Christ was. And I think that that's a valuable aspect for us to recognize is that it's not just, it wasn't just early believers off on a whim going, hey, I'm gonna believe my own thing and do my own thing. It's actually there's great historical evidence to prove that what they were writing was true and that there would have been a variety of other people around to be able to discredit what they were saying is true. And I think one of the things that's most unique about, especially the New Testament and even all throughout scripture, is this aspect of the way they portray their main characters outside of the person of Jesus. Right?
Tyler Perrott:That they're if you look at like King David, this aspect of going, hey, he was a murderer and adulterers and he was an adulterer. That isn't how you would frame up a hero of the story. Right. You would not go, oh man, this is how this person is viewed unless it were true. Right.
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. And you see that even in the disciples. They all went and hid. Right? They all were scared.
Tyler Perrott:They all and and all of these aspects to go, well, wouldn't make that up. Because if you were gonna make that stuff up, that is not how you would do it. It would not be the story you would write because it it brings validity to it by the very nature that it goes, this would not be the way that someone would make up a story. And if no one can disprove it or discredit it, it must have been true. Right.
Luke Bilberry:No. It's so good. And and even so I wanna again, when we talk about other resources disclaimers, there's so much information out there. But one of those I think about is what the work that we're currently seeing that Wes Huff is doing. And so if you can go to wesleyhuff.com, and he has these infographics that can help you navigate, the Scriptures and and understanding there's so much information.
Luke Bilberry:He has so much evidence of these ancient manuscripts and these documents to help you understand and have confidence that this word, is true and it is life changing and it is beyond just a textbook. But when I think about some of those resources and the work that he's doing, I mean, he's having, I would say, a global influence right now because God is using him to highlight the trust and reliability of the scriptures on major podcasts, like, that are all that so many non Christians are listening to, but those resources are are there. And so I encourage you to dive into those and get some more information about that. But one of the things that that he does throughout this is he's highlighting, the reliability, and there there are some kind of keywords that you usually have to begin to address when you're talking about, the trust and reliability of the scriptures, that this written over thousands of years by numerous authors. It still carries this consistent, unifying story of who Jesus is.
Luke Bilberry:But I'd love to begin to talk a little bit about, some of those words of, inerrancy, infallibility. These words that when we begin to talk about the scriptures, help me understand more of the of those concepts, guys.
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. So I think Luke, would it be helpful if I read kind of just our, like, constitutional statement I of
Luke Bilberry:mean, this is a core belief series. It seems like if this is Chapel Point, we probably should.
Tyler Perrott:I was gonna say, we believe the Bible itself as the inspired and infallible word of God that speaks with final authority concerning truth, morality, and the proper conduct of mankind is the sole and final source of all that we believe. I think that is such a great summary statement of kind of our vantage point and our viewpoint of scripture is to say, you know, it is inspired, infallible. And then we also use the the word inerrant there to be able to say it can be fully trusted. Mhmm. That those words all mean that it is inspired by God's spirit.
Tyler Perrott:Yes, it was written by by man, but it is also inspired fully by God's spirit, but it's infallible. That means it cannot be, prone to air or incorrect judgment. And the narrow it means it's without air. That means that there are not heirs within it, that there are aspects that we can have full trust, full weight. And again, I said that a little bit earlier is that we, if somebody is making an ultimate truth claim like the Bible, it needs to be able to live up to that scrutiny because it is something that is so valuable and is saying, no, this is the one truth.
Tyler Perrott:This is the ultimate truth of revealing who God is. Mhmm. And so we need to have a text that can live up to that reality to be able to hold to that truth claim. Yeah.
Andrew Honeycutt:And as much as like those statistics matter, from like an apologetic standpoint, I I think that the biggest apologetic
Luke Bilberry:can't pause right there. I want you to define the word apologetics because are you talking about how to say you're sorry?
Andrew Honeycutt:Like defending your, yeah, defending your faith. I do say I'm sorry a lot, especially the Lutheran.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. The word apologetics, usually in the terms of of the Christian faith is a can be used, I don't necessarily like this word, but a defense of the faith Yeah. An explanation of the faith, helping people understand. So apology and apologetics is helping explain and give a reason why we believe what we believe. That be a fair assessment of the definition?
Andrew Honeycutt:So giving criteria and different things like that on the reliability of Scripture is really important when you talk about, like, the manuscripts and all the things that you can point to Numbers Wise and all that stuff. That is really important. But I think ultimately, the greatest defense of the reliability of Scripture is lives changed by the gospel. Like, simply put, like Yeah. Communities changed and formed by the word of God.
Andrew Honeycutt:Like, that's the greatest evidence that we have that we can trust in it is people walking in faith and walking by the word.
Tyler Perrott:Well, even think about that, right, in the the early church, the very early church, the Acts version of that, right, there was a level that that there was not full manuscripts developed. They
Luke Bilberry:didn't have, like, right, this this part the kind of moving forward. Right? They didn't have this part of the Even
Andrew Honeycutt:in, second Timothy, Paul's writing, he's he's referring to the sacred writings. He he's just now writing this. So he's referring to something Yep. They had the old test.
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. So, but like to think about that to go, they these people were deeply impacted by the message of Jesus Christ and what he had done. And that was the evidence. That was what people knew to go, is that true? It must be.
Tyler Perrott:Because look at the way that they're living. It is remarkably different than anything else that I'm seeing. And so to be technically correct, but not to live in a way that is compelling to others is not a win for us, that we have to we have to recognize that there's a both and, that we get to be both of these things. But if we are merely only technically correct and we are not actually living out lives that are markedly different, then then we have not truly submitted ourselves and surrendered ourselves to these words.
Luke Bilberry:So I wanna I wanna run another scenario here, and I and I won't call anybody out to run up here and and change seats, but I I'm new new to this thing called Christianity. I'm new to faith. And you guys just said, wait, Paul was writing to Timothy, and he's calling back to the sacred writings, but yet you're telling me, pastor Andrew, pastor Tyler, that the Bible is inerrant, infallible, but yet these other parts weren't written yet. How how am I supposed to trust and believe these new writings? Are these just somebody's commentaries?
Luke Bilberry:Or like, how is how do we say that this is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God? Because honestly, I'm struggling to believe that. So again, we're at a coffee shop. I need you to help me understand where these came from. How can I trust these?
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. So I would say if if you're looking for Testament aspect of this, I think one of the things that we've already hit at it a little bit is that there was a communal aspect to this. That there is an evidence of whenever we're looking at, whether the manuscripts of the gospel or the epistles, that there's this aspect of going, hey. These were things that were in constant circulation within the within the early church. I think it's within like one eighty, Irenaeus was like, hey, there are four clear gospels.
Tyler Perrott:And that is very quick on the scene for like certainty of gospel methodology to say, hey. No. There's only four gospels, and we are certain of that. And that has been baked out over time by the fact that there were was clear circulation of these core gospel texts. And then also same thing with the epistles and the other letters within the New Testament is that there was this kind of circulation within the church, that we can have confidence in that these people were reading and they were being edifying and used by the church.
Tyler Perrott:But also, we can look at how do we know that we have the right books in the New Testament. They had to have been attached, to essentially, an apostle on one level or another, either directly or from someone who was right there with them. You think of Luke where he's saying, hey. I heard these things from people that, that were there with Jesus. That we recognize that these were direct eyewitnesses, word accounts to be able to say, hey.
Tyler Perrott:I either myself saw this and have experienced this, or I know of the people who saw this. And I'm taking their word, their account, and passing it along to you that we recognize that there's that element to be able to go that there was in that time, there was people that tried to circulate false letters in that moment, and they would be able to identify and go, hey. This doesn't line up with what we've seen to be true of Jesus, and this doesn't meet the circumstances of being able to be connected to an apostle, or this is way out of bounds of core Christian orthodoxy. There's no way that this could be true. And so the church through the process was able to, work through this kind of preserving by the spirit, these kind of core documents, these core texts that we were able to say, hey, this is what God has ordained as his scriptures, as his holy words.
Tyler Perrott:Because even in the New Testament, you see, I think even in Paul, like the recognition that they knew that they were writing scripture. Like they knew in no moment that they were writing holy scripture. There's references of that to go, that we get to see that it wasn't shocking to them in that moment that that was happening. That whenever God does a great move, that there are often people who are writing down what God has done.
Luke Bilberry:Mhmm. So Yeah. So help me out, Pastor Andrew. Help me how can I My trust
Andrew Honeycutt:my thing behind I My thing is always to go to the thing behind the thing? Mhmm. You know? So like, if I'm sitting with you at a coffee shop, I could give you all like the infographics and I could give you all of like the tools. And like, the thing behind the thing for me, ultimately, I mean, I would tell you some of the things that pastor Tyler just said, but like, why, what's behind that question?
Andrew Honeycutt:Mhmm. Like, is there ultimately, like, does it matter how much information I give you to prove that it's true, that it's real, or is it truly that you just unwilling to surrender?
Luke Bilberry:That's a that's a
Andrew Honeycutt:great point. So for me, like, when I'm, like, walking with somebody, talking through Scripture and talking through these things with them, it's like to try to figure out why why the question in the first place. Are you truly just unwilling to surrender and walk in faith? Because ultimately, we're living by faith.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. I think those are some fair points, and it kind of leads me, and if I'm thinking again about this, and you brought up some those points, Tyler, as well. There are certain traditions in Christendom that have some other books, right, the apocryphal books. How should I engage with apocryphal texts? There seems to be a current rise in in the Internet world, conversation of apocryphal books, specifically Book of Enoch and things like that.
Luke Bilberry:How should we engage in these, we would define as extra biblical texts? Yeah.
Tyler Perrott:I think one of the things that is always valuable, and so I'm gonna say something that's not necessarily about those aspects, but I'm gonna tie it into there is to go, we need to make sure that whatever we're doing interpretation work, that we are utilizing the texts that are clear to interpret things that are unclear. And often what I see in this world is often that we want to take what is really unclear and then transpose onto what is clear. And so there's like an obsession with that world because it's like, oh, it's really it's an unclear world. It feels very mysterious or unique. But we have to be able to know what we know with certainty to be able to engage well with those things that we know with uncertainty.
Tyler Perrott:To go, hey, is there good and true things potentially in the book of Enoch? Sure. There are things that we maybe need to know, but it has to be underneath the authority of the things that we know for certain. And often that is where we get things backwards as people will go in and just go, I'm just gonna approach these things as the exact same thing, and I'm gonna get really captivated by the mystery or the uncertainty or that seems very fanciful. And then I'm gonna let that begin to shape the things that I thought I knew to be true.
Tyler Perrott:And so that would be the one of the things I think are really valuable for us whenever we think about interpretation is to be anchored in the truth of God's word that we know to be true and allow that to shape. Okay. Well, if this is saying this in this extra biblical book, how do I make that make sense with what I know to be true? And how do I take that and interpret it, run it through that filter rather than going, hey, well, I'm just gonna take this at face value and run and then run what I thought to knew to be true under through that filter. And so I think it's determining your primary lens of viewpoint is really, really valuable.
Tyler Perrott:Because I do think we also have to be willing to recognize that if we believe this word to be true and good and right, it should be able to stand up to a test of scrutiny of things that are outside of scripture or even things that would be something that would fall in a middle category of going, hey, it's not heresy, but it's maybe not scripture. And we you can utilize those things to help grow our faith, encourage our faith, but doesn't change our faith.
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. I think that's that's a great question that you brought. If if we ask questions of the Scriptures, it should be able to stand up to examination and the scrutiny. I love that word, like, to really wrestle with it, to wrestle with the text, to wrestle with the Scriptures, to, mind them, you know, to the best of our ability to understand because we have so many resources. We have, it feels like almost every year some new archaeological evidence comes out and affirms what the Scriptures are seen.
Luke Bilberry:I mean, we have some some friends of ours that are part of this church that they're still doing trips to Asia Minor, and they're seeing how the church operated, and and we're finding even, like, just how how much we actually can trust the Scripture. But I wanna kinda pull back a little bit and and say, how kind of coming back to that question a little bit, how can I trust the Scriptures? And how can the Scripture stand up to the scrutiny of it if we think about these extra biblical texts or even our interpretation, is this literal? Is this, I think you used the word earlier, allegorical, kind of taking this as, just principles? Figurative.
Luke Bilberry:Figurative, like, so how how can we approach the Scriptures and and how should we approach the Scriptures? Is God big enough for our doubts and our worries? How would you guys respond to those kind of ideas?
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. I mean, I think that's a there's a lot there, right, in this aspect of being able to walk through this. But to be able to sit here and say that whenever we're looking at, whenever we're examining just kind of the confidence of our And pastor Ernie, I love what you said there about like, what's the question behind the question and being able to continue to evaluate and to wrestle through what are the real questions that we're after. And sometimes I think whenever we're after this is to go, we're looking for something that is beyond what God has already revealed to us. That for whatever reason we do not trust or have not put our full faith and dependence in the person work of Jesus Christ.
Tyler Perrott:That we're looking for something extra to whether that's a new excitement, new belief, new so whatever that might be to that is actually giving great evidence that maybe our faith isn't as strong as we think it is. And so we have to be careful, think, the midst of this to not to not overimpose or overlook at this in a way that goes, hey, what what am I actually chasing after? Mhmm. What am I actually looking for whenever it comes to the text? And being able to do that self evaluation before we put the scrutiny on the scripture, but then ultimately to level it and be able to go, I know I can trust it.
Tyler Perrott:I know I can believe this to be true. So whenever I encounter things, I'm trying to figure out, God, that is true, well, does it fit with it? What I've I've already read and already know to be true?
Luke Bilberry:Well, wanna do I wanna kinda begin to move towards, some practicals and some next steps, I think there's a few kind of, keywords and ideas that we may need to, discuss, but, being very specific in how do we, Chapel Point, as a local church here, what is our hermeneutic? Maybe Hanukkah, if you could define that. And then how do we deal with words? There's words you often hear in the church of hermeneutics, exegesis, eisegesis, how do we approach the Scriptures so that observation, interpretation, application of it? And then maybe a little bit of conversation around translations, because particularly in the English language, there are a number of translations.
Luke Bilberry:What's kind of our approach? And again, there's actually a great infographic on Wes Huff's website that I think can also really be helpful. And what's our approach to the scriptures and the ones that we use and why? And then and then maybe, maybe kind of thinking through what are what are some next steps for us, around, you've guys have been hinting at it, the thing behind the thing, then I'd love for us to maybe land the plane there because I think there is a truth that you were just addressing, Honeycutt, that I wanna circle back to.
Andrew Honeycutt:Yeah. So for me, I try to go to I use all the resources that I can to when I'm interpreting scripture. So for me, personally, like, I I go back to the original languages when I'm, like, interpreting scripture and, like, looking through those things and trusted commentaries. And it's important to have people within a community that are a You're able to talk through those things with as well, to do that in the context of biblical community. That's why I love small groups.
Andrew Honeycutt:It's such a great place to be able to to vet out and start to think through stuff and and start to really process through it in that biblical community that God blesses us with. But I think it's so important to, think the basic thing, when we keep coming back to interpretation, it's like, it's this. It's like, am I standing over Scripture, or am I coming under the authority of Scripture? Mhmm. Am I willing to surrender to what God has said and what God tells me to do?
Andrew Honeycutt:And am I willing to live differently in light of it?
Luke Bilberry:Yeah. Well, it's kind of when in that idea right there, you're helping me understand this word eisegesis, right? If I'm over authority, this is probably a rudimentary understanding or maybe a definition, so sharpen this guys if this is off base. But if I approach the Scriptures and I begin to read and study and I already have a preconceived idea
Andrew Honeycutt:I wanna go to it so that And it can prove the thing that I already think.
Luke Bilberry:Right. Whether right or wrong, right? So it's using the using the Scriptures to prove my point. Yeah. But exegesis would be the opposite, right?
Luke Bilberry:It was going, the Scriptures are first and then my interpretation and therefore application is is downstream of that. Right?
Tyler Perrott:I think we always have to remember that we are a secondary audience. Yeah. That we are not the prior like, this had an original audience with original intent. And so we have to do the hard work of recognizing that in ourselves and that we want to impose our kind of primary viewpoint onto that very naturally just by our own bias. And so our hope is that over time is that our bias begins to be shaped by God's word.
Luke Bilberry:And bias is not necessarily negative. Correct. It's just a reality. Yep. So I am from Texas.
Luke Bilberry:I am from a Southern reality. I grew up in a certain cultural church context, right? That would said y'all a lot. That said y'all way too much, right? But that is a bias, right?
Luke Bilberry:That helps That's a lens, but I have to take that lens off Mhmm. In order to allow the
Tyler Perrott:We have to evaluate and ask ourselves, are our biases right, good, and biblical? And being willing to wrestle with those things whenever they are outside of alignment. I think one of those things that ever I think I love about Chapel Point and our hermeneutical approach is this aspect of looking at to go to how to all good theology is practical theology. Mhmm. So if if where we land
Luke Bilberry:So good.
Tyler Perrott:Is not actually practical in our relationship with God and others, then we have not landed in good theology. Mhmm. And it may be it might be high theory. Yeah. But if it has not landed us into a better practice of our faith and a better belief in who God is, then we have not landed in the right spot.
Tyler Perrott:And so I think that that's the the challenge whenever we dive into these, deeper topics is to be willing to say, is is my theology leading me there? Is it leading me into a greater understanding of God and a greater practice as a follower of Jesus? And if it's not, even if you're right, you're wrong.
Luke Bilberry:Right. It reminds me of the of this quote, from from James White in his book Scripture Alone, it says, how one views Scripture will determine the rest of one's theology. There's no more basic issue. Every system of thought that takes seriously the claims of the Bible to be the inspired authoritative Word of God will share a commitment to the particular central truth and that without compromise. Right?
Luke Bilberry:So that's getting this right determines everything else and it has to be extremely practical and applicable. Otherwise, it's not transformational that you talked about before. But would you define for us just that word hermeneutic, you don't mind, pastor?
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. I think it's just, walking through this aspect of how we interpret scripture and looking at it in this way of going our hermeneutical approach is the way by which we evaluate the scriptures that we look at and say, okay, how am I, what I'm reading? Is it actually going as evaluating some of those biases even to be able to go the way that I'm approaching my review of the scripture and saying, is it an alignment with all the aspects of what we see all throughout God's word?
Luke Bilberry:Right. And so we chop a point. We approach that as literal historical. Right? That that is one of our hermeneutics that talk about we're secondary audiences to this.
Luke Bilberry:But yet we also know it to be highly applicable for us because the Word of God is still living and active. Right? And so so it reminds me of what you were saying earlier, the that I wanna ask the question, what's the thing behind the thing? Why why am I wrestling with this? I'd love for us to explore that as a way of applying this conversation for us that if the Word of God is beneficial, you know, to help us to reproof correction, all the things that that, that Paul writes to Timothy about the Scriptures and the sacred texts.
Luke Bilberry:Help me wrestle with that. If you're sitting down with me, the guy who's saying, I'm just struggling because I feel like I've heard people talk about there's contradictions in the Bible, you know, and how could the God of the Old Testament look like this, but yet we say Jesus looks like this. I'm just struggling to understand that you guys would truly say this is authoritative for every part of your life. Help me understand more of
Andrew Honeycutt:reaction would be to ask more questions of that person, like, and to actually dig more into what's their experience with God and the and their faith and different things of that sort. Because I think that, honestly, it's probably revealing something about their heart if they have an unwillingness to trust in it, right? Yeah. And so what are those like evaluative questions that can, yeah, again, like dig behind the question behind the question to truly find out like what's going on in their heart.
Tyler Perrott:Yeah. I think to to even add another layer to that would be read all the the survey, all the results will say, hey, have more access to information. We have more availability of everything, but we are less knowledgeable and knowing of things than ever before. We have because we have such digital we have such digital access to everything. And I think that that has has layered into our faith on some levels that we be the average Christian does not engage God's word on a very frequent basis.
Tyler Perrott:So we have to ask ourselves truly, I think underneath that to go, well, why is that true? What is is wrong with my view of either God, myself, or God's word that I don't see it as a priority? That I've given other things priority in my life. That I've given other things final authority in my life. And those could be I just think back to our survey last summer.
Tyler Perrott:Whenever we ask people, hey, what's what's what is preventing our people from loving the lord your god with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength? And they came back with distraction, time, and discipline as the top three, with distraction being number one. And what that tells me is that our affections, our desires are actually, they're out of whack. They're out of priority, that they are not wired the way that they should be. And I think that if most people who have been in the church for a long time, maybe even followers of Jesus for a long time, started with the willingness to go, God, I don't love you as much as I think
Andrew Honeycutt:I do.
Tyler Perrott:I I want and I need to admit that. And I need to start there and go, I know your grace and your mercy is new every single morning, and I need you to begin to help me rewire my desires, rewire my affections to you because that is the ultimate thing that is lacking Mhmm. In my life. And I think if we if people were willing to admit that, but that takes a lot of humility to go, God, I don't actually love you as much as I as I should or I think I do.
Luke Bilberry:Right. There's a there's a theory. My oh, man. My brain's just blinking on me in this moment. But the idea is to not say you should, like, be better, do better, love the scriptures, get in the scripture more.
Luke Bilberry:It's to change the affection. Right? So you don't put it as nose and barriers, the more your heart is in it, does your heart grow in its affection to understand these truths. Right?
Andrew Honeycutt:That's why I love the word affection because I I always I think about delight. Like, do I actually delight in his word? And so like, if I'm confronted with that person, I would invite them to do some kind of like bible reading thing with me see what changes over the next seven days, thirty days, whatever, three months, and actually explore it together. Because I think that's where you see change in people's lives. When they start just simply abiding with God, abiding in his word, then everything else changes, right?
Tyler Perrott:Right. I wanna read this Lewis quote, CS Lewis quote, and you've heard it before. It would seem that our Lord finds our desires. Oh, too strong, but too weak. We are half hearted creatures flit about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us.
Tyler Perrott:Like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased. We do not recognize that we have been given a holiday at the sea. No. And that underneath, if I had to challenge us would be to go, do you not recognize what you've been given here?
Tyler Perrott:That an infinite God made himself known to you and you're far too easily pleased with things that don't matter.
Luke Bilberry:Right.
Tyler Perrott:That's why scrolling your social media is far easier than this book because you your desires are not strong enough.
Luke Bilberry:Or even to get lost in some of those things we're talking about, some of those extra biblical conversations where the Bible is silent on, we we make too big a deal about, but the things that the Bible is abundantly clear on, we're like, no, it's because our affection, our heart's in the wrong place. And so as a as a way of of closing this, I I want to highlight a moment for you. So if you guys mind, hang on a second. I'm gonna grab a quick resource here. And then something that pastor Joel talked about on Sunday, is is is coffee.
Luke Bilberry:But first and foremost, this is a book that a lot of our staff has. It's called practical theology by Floyd Barackman, and it is a book that, I mean, even this one is dog eared, these are resources that we have in our office. But this is a helpful tool as a primer to help you engage in the Scriptures, to engage in some of these conversations. So if that's a helpful tool for you guys, we can't, I mean, we all use it, we all come back to it at some point, and there's lots of other systematic theology texts that can be helpful, but I think this one, in particular is one that we as a staff often go back to. So if that's a blessing to you, make sure you engage with that because some of these conversations you can dive a little bit deeper, you can see the Scriptures, that are are that we talked high level and fast through, but everything is you're talking about delight.
Luke Bilberry:The Old Testament and the Psalmist says all the time, let my delight be in the law of the Lord, that your your law, your word is sweeter than honey, right? And there's all these passages that highlight these truths that we're talking about. And so resources like this can help you as you do that. But as a as a final thought for us You're gonna make us coffee? I Listen, either.
Luke Bilberry:I'll make you a nice pour over out. I wish I could, but but pastor Joel referenced this, and we do this often, is that when we come to the Bible, here's the thing, if you just put coffee and coffee grounds and water in here and you mix it up and I poured you a cup, is that gonna be life giving to you? No. No. It's gotta have a filter.
Luke Bilberry:And so the things of life, we believe in a practical theology. What is our hermeneutic? Is that the Word of God. God wants to work in your life in real time, right here, right now, because it's what He has been doing from the very beginning in Genesis, and it is what He's gonna do for eternity to the future. He's gonna always be at work.
Luke Bilberry:So we wanna take the Scriptures, the Word of God, and filter everything in life just like a coffee filter. We're gonna put it in here, the things of life, the hardships, the joys, the questions. We're gonna filter it through the Scriptures and allow whatever comes out. That's what we're gonna drink and serve taste and see that the Lord is good. And so that's our hope and our prayer for you guys is that you would dive deep into the scriptures.
Luke Bilberry:Dive deep into the scriptures, not what other people say, not even even in this podcast. Like, let's be real clear, man. We're just average guys that have been wrecked by the grace and truth that God would love us. And so, would you delight in the word of God and in doing so encounter him and be transformed by the power of his grace for his glory.