Flexible Working As An Equine Veterinarian

Show Notes

This month we are joined by Silvia Janská and Shelley Cook, two vets-turned-entrepreneurs who both champion flexible working in the veterinary industry.

We discuss how Silvia Janská, a co-founder of Flexee, started her business as a way to combat the problems she can see within the veterinary industry, particularly within recruitment and staff retention.

She provides practical advice on things we can do to advocate for flexible working and what that actually means for you as an equine vet. We also unwrap the attitudes and challenges Silvia has come across in her role and what we can do to get clients on board with a new way of working.

We then sit down with Shelley Cook, founder of Little Rock Equine Vets, who shares her incredible story from a burnt-out vet in practice to an on-the-road entrepreneur and a hugely successful practice owner. She puts flexible working and strong communication at the core of her business to best support her team and lead a balanced life.

Useful Links:

Check Out Flexee:  www.myflexee.com

Little Rock Equine Vets: https://littlerockequinevets.co.uk/blog/

Join us each month for a new episode of The KBHH Equine Vets Podcast and stay informed on the latest developments in equine health and wellness. To get in touch with the show, please email [e-mail].

What is The KBHH Equine Vets Podcast?

Welcome to The KBHH Equine Vets Podcast, brought to you by MSD Animal Health.
 
Join our expert hosts, Dr. Ebony Escalona and Dr. Naomi Mellor, both experienced equine veterinarians, each month as they bring you informative and engaging discussions about all things equine health and wellness. 

The KBHH Equine Vets Podcast is aimed at vets who want to know more about how to look at things differently in equine, from what ‘flexing’ could mean as an equine vet, to the latest technology developments and looking after your own wellbeing. Ebony and Naomi will share the exciting developments within the equine world that our guests are leading in. With a focus on looking at life in equine practice through a different lens, our podcast will feature interviews with leading experts in their field. Whether you are a seasoned equine vet or a GP vet looking to expand your knowledge of equine medicine, our podcast will provide you with valuable insights and information.

So, join us each month for a new episode of The KBHH Equine Vets Podcast and stay informed on the latest developments in equine health and wellness. To get in touch with the show, please email [e-mail].

Blaise Scott-Morris: Hello and
welcome to the KBHH podcast,

where we are looking at doing
things differently in the equine

industry, from new technologies,
to equine behaviour to wellbeing

within equine practice, we've
got something for you. So sit

back, relax, and I hope you
enjoy the show

Naomi Mellor: One of the big
talking points for working

practices in the veterinary
profession has been around

recruitment, retention, and
keeping your staff happy. And

one massive talking point, an
area that has been a real growth

area for discussion, I think
it's fair to say over the last

few years, has been flexible
working and Ebs and I are

completely delighted that we are
joined today by Silvia Janská,

our good friend and colleague,
and general lovely person, to

chat all about this. She is the
company owner of Flexi Vet, and

is doing lots of work in this
area.

Ebony Escalona: Why did you
become interested, very

specifically in flexible working?

Silvia Janská: I've always been
interested in improving the vet

profession. I mean, ever since I
was a student, really, I guess I

was seeing what was happening in
the profession. You know, when

it comes to the vets being
disheartened, after a few years

qualified a lot of burnout, a
lot of mental health and

physical health that is not
being dealt with to my

imagination, how it should be. I
reunited with Jessica May, my

now co founder of Flexi. At this
conference, we were obviously

catching up, and we were sharing
our life. And we've realised we

had a very, very similar
problems or thoughts and that we

were noticing, in our own
personal life, we didn't find

any vet practices that will
accommodate our needs. And, and

already at that time, we were
sort of looking to stay vets but

actually enjoy our life to how
we imagine it, kind of, how can

we fit work inside our life. But
it didn't sort of start with oh,

we want to create a company on
flexible work. And we were kind

of just thinking about the more
bigger picture or the problem

that we were having really. And
then we started talking to a lot

of employers, and started seeing
what the employers want to offer

and what the employees need and
kind of saw a gap in the middle

that where they weren't meeting.
And so we created this flexible

working survey two years ago, we
had over 500 vets and nurses

answer it. So we were just like,
oh my goodness, okay, so people

actually do want to talk about
this. And so then we set up a

company and a consultancy. And
it's just kind of goe off that

really. From our survey found
that attracting and retaining

staff was the number one benefit
of flexible working. And

actually 48% of employees are
actually happy to exchange a

percentage of their salary for
more flexibility. So people are

not minding to earn a little bit
less, to have the kind of

flexibility that they need. So
that's quite interesting,

really, I thought, you know,
potentially a way to retain the

staff. The other biggest benefit
is that it improves well being.

And the other thing that it
improves motivation, I was

actually just thinking about
that today. I believe that

motivation is very, very tightly
linked with productivity, more

flexible businesses seem to be
more productive. And so if one

of the top three benefits is
that it improves motivation. I

think that's that's why, if
you're motivated to do your job

then you will be more
productive, you'll do it quickly

or do better.

Ebony Escalona: And along with
motivation as well. I think it

supports the autonomy piece. We
all seek purpose, mastery in

autonomy,

Naomi Mellor: The kind of long
hours is almost like a badge of

honour where you know, I'm still
here and it's eight o'clock at

night or nine o'clock at night
or whatever. And, you know, I'm

working so hard, it's kind of
considered to be this great

productivity thing, whereas
actually, some European

countries view that completely
differently.

Silvia Janská: And I think there
is a sort of a happy medium

because you know, everybody will
have different needs, and maybe

somebody can do one job much
quicker and a different job much

slower just because of what
their strengths are like, you

know, I would be the one staying
behind at five o'clock if I if

you gave given me excel
spreadsheets, but if it's, you

know, talking to people and
negotiating partnerships, and so

on, I'll get it done much
quicker, right. So, so I think

it really depends what it is
that you're asking the person to

do it, if you have the right
person in the right role with

the right responsibilities, they
should meet certain time period

to do that work.

Ebony Escalona: Your survey and
your conversations, as you

alluded to earlier, showcase
this gap between employers and

employees when it came to
flexible working. So when we're

looking with the equine lens, a
very specific lens, indeed, what

are we learning that we can help
to make that gap super small,

and actually get them to kind of
Jigsaw fit in when it comes to

the needs of both?

Silvia Janská: That's a very
important question. That's where

I guess tying it back to the
survey, we asked many quite

detailed questions. One of them
was just, we listed a whole

number of concepts around
flexible working and asked

people to rank how important
they are. And the survey was

divided into employers and
employees so that we could

compare if there's any gaps. So
the same questions were asked to

employers and employees. And
actually, they matched on almost

all of the concepts except one.
And that was being flexible with

flexibility. And I think you can
imagine what that means. But

that is not my term, that is
from another huge HR

organisation, right? That's not
me making this up. What the gap

demonstrated is actually that
much more over 50% of employers

thought that it's extremely
important to be flexible with

flexibility, if you want
flexible working to work in your

business in your environment,
whereas for 30% of employees,

thought that that was important.
There's many reasons why that

might be. And I think oftentimes
we go I, you know, if I need to

leave at five, I need to leave
at five, five, I can't be

flexible, but it's all about
that sort of give and take

between the employer and the
employee and meeting each other

in the middle. It's not
necessarily that just because I

need to leave on five one day
doesn't mean that I can't be a

bit more flexible with something
else, whether that's time or, or

in other ways that I can help
the business. Right. And I think

that is one of the key areas
where the employers and

employees actually,
qualitatively when I speak to

either practices or employees,
because a lot of employers have

been trying to implement some
flex that have been burned

before, they are not being very
flexible, or are very scared of

being flexible. And on the other
hand, a lot of the employees

that do become part time, are
oftentimes blamed for being very

inflexible for the team and for
the business. And I think, you

know, there are ways to try and
solve that. That's not just

saying, Let's not do this.

Naomi Mellor: What are the sort
of attitudes you've come across

from the people, not necessarily
employer and employee but

perhaps employee and employee
within practices around that

sort of scenarios?

Silvia Janská: Even within the
team, sometimes, it can be a

divide where the people who work
part time or basically do not

work the full time equivalent
are blamed to be usually the

inflexible ones. That is a
common attitude, the practices

that are making flexible working
work, don't have that they've

had conversations or the very
culture of that workplace is

such that it is recognised that
some people need to leave on

time and some people have
different requests and it's

identifying what is your key
flexibility that you need or key

or take from the business okay,
my take I absolutely on on on

Monday, Wednesday, Friday need
to leave at three o'clock,

right? That's my non negotiable,
that's my take. But actually my

give might be something else, I
might be able to work more

weekends or do more out of hours
because actually, over the

weekend, my wife or my husband
is at home taking care of the

kids if we're talking about
childcare, right. And and it's

having that conversation within
the team is the give and take

not just between the employee
and the employees, the give and

take within the employees.
Winding it back to specifically

equine with our Flexi survey.
The two most important factors

regarding flexible working that
we identified or the people

answered was the need to be able
to swap shifts within a preset

rota and that is actually pretty
blanket across the industry. And

the second one for equine was to
be able to leave work on time

for childcare responsibilities.
You know, these were specific

questions. So this was sort of
the most second most requested

thing. So if we identify that
that's a need. Okay, so what's

the next step? Let's let's have
a conversation about it in our

team.

Ebony Escalona: Yeah. I love the
way we're talking here about

employer employee employee
employee, but I think in equine

and across the board, but very
much so, three of us are equine

vets, right? So we know this
within our core, what can we be

doing to get those clients on
board? Because our flexibility

impacts on them, how can we
support that?

Silvia Janská: A number of ways
really one, when you boil things

down it comes to conversation
and education, not

retrospectively, oh, sorry, this
happened, somebody else had to

see or I have to leave or
whatever, you know, somebody

else has to pick up this case,
it's being proactive about it.

It's all shifting the mindset to
a very proactive one. So no, I

can't be here next week on
Tuesday for you. But I'll be

back on Thursday, can we meet on
Thursday for a recheck or

whatever that is. And the other
thing is, so rather than having

one equine client, so dependent
on your my vet, is, you know,

start introducing the buddy
system, right. So the fact that

actually, you know, you are
client of our business, trust

the business is employing vets
where you should want anyone of

us, that would not employ
somebody that can't see them or

deliver for them. So, you know,
and that's down to the vets

really to be communicating that
to our clients. Yeah, you can

sort of start buddying up and
sort of saying, Okay, well, I

can't but, you know, the two of
us always see each other's

clients, or, you know, just just
find what works for your type of

client and your practice.

Ebony Escalona: Yeah, I really
love that. And it goes, I think,

actually, the flexible working
conversation between those teams

not only helps with the flexible
working of recruitment and

retention, it helps everyone
understand who they're working

for, and perhaps how they want
to influence who that is, what

is that organisation? What does
it stand for, you know, what are

its values? You know, and I
said, Yeah, and that's a lovely,

lovely demonstration of of that
I think these conversations lead

to far more than just the fix of
flexibility, it actually opens

up a conversation for for so
much more.

Naomi Mellor: If you go into a
practice, that's been trading

for 30 years, for example,
always been the same, what we

would call traditional working
models. Where do you begin? And

how do you suggest that people
start those conversations? What

you know, if you go in, what's
the blank slate Silv I guess?

Silvia Janská: Well, I guess you
you've answered your own

question by saying, what's the
conversations, right? Everybody

can talk. So you know, you don't
have to start implementing a

whole new business strategy,
literally just have a

conversation with the team. And
you know, you can forwards,

start implementing different
ways of working, if you don't

know where other people stand..
And if not, everybody's on the

same page. So to find out you
talk, so you can have

conversation starters, as simple
as what is flexible working mean

to you? Because, what does
flexible working mean? It's such

a broad term, it's just how do
you want to work? How do you

want to live? Right? Like a
conversation starter could be,

you know, what is flexibility
mean to you? What does

flexibility mean to this
practice? You know, winding it

back to our values. Like, is
this something we value? Is this

something that we should aim
for? What would you change about

your current workplace pattern?
Or, you know, what actions could

we take so that we ensure that
any solutions are fair to

everyone, because oftentimes,
either practices have been

burned before by trying things,
or there's been built up of

resentment because things
haven't been fair, or they're

just, you know, maybe working in
a very traditional manner,

manner. So it's not necessarily
up to the employer to say, this

is a type of leadership. This is
how we're going to work full

stop. But you know, maybe a
nicer way of leading the team is

okay, how do we want to work?
You know, ultimately, you want a

motivated team to have a
successful business. So ask

them, how do they want to work
so that they stay.

Ebony Escalona: Yeah, very much
so, very much so. I think it

comes as no surprise that
keeping the equine vet is

possibly one of the hardest
things to do. We don't yet have

the out of hours cover that out
more animal friends do. So I

just think if you. I think
stories really, really sell this

concept and facts, tell them. So
I just think if you had anything

from your case study library,
and it'd be lovely to show.

Silvia Janská: I mean, I touched
on one already about sort of

buddying up, there is another
equine vet practice that

actually set up during COVID.
And they set up with sort of

flexibility in mind, but what
they do from the very start from

the interview stage, they try
and interveiew in such a way

that they find out what are the
personal needs of the employee.

They do ask, okay, we kind of
need to fill in a maybe a full

time equivalent position, but
that doesn't mean I can't have

two part time vets, or if you
need to work three days a week,

now, would you be able to scale
up later. They have an employee

that started on less and
actually scaled up their work,

you know, everybody's saying,
oh, part timers, and everybody

wants to work flexibly, ie work
less. But there are so many

examples there where maybe now I
need to work less, but maybe

later, I can work more. And it's
knowing what your team can do.

And that's, again, kind of
bringing us back to that give

and take, I can give you an
employment now. Okay, I'll take

you for working less. But then
actually, you can give me more

when you can give me more.

Ebony Escalona: 100% I love
that. It's like, it's like the

arc, you know, the changing arc
of needs as we go through our

career. And I love the fact you
say interview, why can't we

bring those questions into our
appraisals, or our monthly one

to ones or like anything
changing for you about

education? hobbies? sabbatical?
children? care needs? a family?

own care needs, you know,
whatever, you know, what, just

because you want to, you know,
to live a life. So I just think

that's, that's a really good.

Silvia Janská: Yeah, the
employee also needs to be

obviously very self aware, you
know, sometimes it's very

obvious if if you have a child
and that that's your, you know,

responsibility, you know, what
you can and can't do, if you

don't have children and are not
doing an extra study or

something like that. Just be
self aware, what what what needs

you have and negotiate and
negotiate in a very, I mean,

that word, it can be quite a
scary word. But I mean it in a

positive way. Because you want
to start from a common place,

you want to be happy, your
employer wants to be happy. It's

not the kind of negotiation of I
want to get as much as possible

out of this employment or, you
know, I want the highest sallary

with the least amount of work.
And you know, that that's not

Ebony Escalona: And we haven't
spoken about is the horse, what

negotiating.
we all care about, at the end of

the day is keeping these horse
horses as happy and healthy as

possible. So that's the common
ground, isn't it?

Naomi Mellor: I couldn't agree
more. Oh, my goodness, I love

that. That's right up our
street, the three of us, I

think, speak for a very similar
playbook. Let's face it. But I

think it's really interesting,
because in time, as I've said,

you know, retention of Equine
vets is, if not the hardest,

probably one of the hardest
within the profession at the

moment, I constantly meet
practice owners who are saying,

can't get a vet. And I think in
time, the people who are having

these conversations, being
really transparent, being really

open to change, open to
discussion, those people are the

ones that will keep and recruit.
And I think actually the kind of

cream will work its way to the
top as it were.

Ebony Escalona: So I think what
these podcasts are hopefully

going to do, and I think what's
great about what MSD here are

really trying to kind of
showcase is how can we do things

differently, not to be annoying,
or just different actually, so

we can push stuff forward. And,
and, and enjoy our jobs more,

Silvia Janská: The easiest thing
you can do is, even on your own,

learn about what flexible
working is and what it means to,

so think about it, how about you
know, don't just go into telling

your employer if you're an
employee, this is what I want,

you know, be prepared to be
flexible your way. So educate

yourself. The second thing, what
teams could do is well have a

conversation. So communicate
about it, find out what

flexibility means to each of
you, what it means for the

business, what are the gives and
takes? How can you make it fair,

just be open and honest and
transparent and talk about it.

Thirdly, I've already mentioned,
you know, if if you're an

employer, you're recruiting so
even at the interview stage, try

and find out how can you retain
this vet. So why do they want to

come and work for you? How will
their personal life maybe

change? Because if you don't
ask, you don't find out, you

don't know. And maybe they do
already know, we can't predict

what life will bring. But we
have some idea where we're

heading, or where we would like
to head. So start with the

interview. The buddy system that
I mentioned, you know, so try

and educate the clients that
it's not necessarily you, they

always need to see. So try and
redirect their attention to

wanting to see your practice,
not necessarily you. Or you can

also as I said sort of buddy up
with you know, two vets seeing

the same client is an easy way
into that. And thirdly, there's

another actually example from a
vet practice I can give you

specifically where they make
sure that at the end of the day,

everybody finishes on time most
of the time, because they have

certain ways that the vets
overlap and they cover each

other and actually they do make
it work that they finish on

time. So overlap your vets at
the end of the day and just

pilot things, trial things,
three monthly trials. And if you

need help, I'm here

Blaise Scott-Morris: Thanks,
Sylvia, for those amazing

insights on flexible working.
Now we're going to speak to

Shelley about her experiences
and setting up her own practice.

Ebony Escalona: So Shelley,
Shelley, Shelley Cook, mom of

two, equine vet, business owner,
entrepreneur, and absolute go

getter. It's absolutely
wonderful to have you join us

today. And to chat through a
little bit about your journey in

equine general practice. I know
you had a life before joining

the profession. So I'd love to
hear a little bit about that,

and what your expectations of
general practice before you

entered the profession, and how
they matched up in reality as

you've kind of gone through your
career journey.

Shelley Cook: I have a bit of a
wiggly start to my career. I did

agriculture first. And then I
went off and worked for a few

years getting experience in
industries that I thought would

be useful to me further down the
track. I'd always wanted to be a

vet, but just haven't quite
managed to do it the first time.

So I went in to work for
companies like Coolmore with

foals and weanlings sales and
yearling sales. And then I

managed to pull all the funding
together to go back and do

veterinary medicine as a second
degree. My intention or my

thought process about how it was
going to be was kind of a bit

James Herriot esk, driving
around the countryside, having a

better crack with people, fixing
horses, and when I got into the

industry, it wasn't what I
thought it was. So but it was a

much more high pressured
environment then I was

expecting. I thought it was more
of a kind of numbers game, you

didn't get a chance to make true
relationships with your

community, I found that quite
hard. So after having my first

baby, I looked at seeing if
there was career progression

where I was and discovered that
was not an option for me. So

when I was coming back from
having my second baby, I sort of

started thinking about what I
wanted to do. And I have to be

honest, I really was thinking
about leaving the industry as a

whole, I'd had enough, I didn't
want to go back to where it was,

I knew I wouldn't be able to get
the flexibility I needed to

raise two babies, and do my job
to the level that I wanted to do

it. So I actually went and did
the coaching course run by VDS.

And it gave me, gave me quite a
few eye openers, and they were

good. They were good eye
openers, a lot of soul

searching, but actually, I
realised that wasn't the

industry. It was the job I was
doing at the time. So I still

had that love of wanting to fix
things and help people. But I

just couldn't do it with my
ethos and what I wanted, where I

was, so I packed up my little
van with all my kit in it. And

me myself and I started running
an equine practice, equine only

practice. I've now been doing
that since the 19th of October

2020. Within three months, I had
brought alongside my practice

manager, Claire. Within another
two months we had our second vet

Lucy. Our ethos is different in
that everybody in the team has a

say. So we have meetings,
usually once every two weeks

where everybody gets to sit down
and help formulate how we're

doing things and where we're
going. And I know that none of

us have ever experienced that in
our lives previously, regardless

of where we've worked. And we've
got three office staff, some of

them have come from big
corporations, like McDonald's,

for example. Others have have
been in the equine industry or

in the veterinary industry in
terms of answering phones and

others have just come from a
horse background. So you know,

we've got a team of five now.
And it's fab, it really is fab,

everybody gets to have a say,
there's never been a fall out or

a difference of opinion in terms
of where we should be going.

We've had a couple of incidences
in the last month in terms of

flexible working because
flexible working for me. If

you'd asked me pre children,
what was flexible working for

those that had children, I would
have said, Oh, it's part time.

And you kind of lose the drive
and the enthusiasm for what

you're doing. And I didn't want
to do that with my practice

because, a variety of reasons,
yes, obviously, I want to spend

time with my children and raise
them. But I also didn't want

that to be the only thing I was
known for. So in terms of

setting up the practice, we
wanted to look after our

clients, and I don't, I don't
just mean you know, pat them on

the head, I do mean have an
actual relationship with them in

terms of community. So we are
very heavily invested in the

local community, we give talks
to Pony Club probably once every

couple of months, we do give
talks to riding clubs. And

again, it's all about
preventative medicine. So it's

talking to them about things
like why foot balance is so

important to prevent lameness.
Why it's important to worm your

horses, why it's important to
vaccinate your horses and we

kind of just do it with a bit of
a different a different spin on

it. So we have practicals. So
last week, I was lecturing to a

bunch of riding club people, I'd
actually got them a full

skeletal leg, fore leg and hind
limb. And we talked through all

of those, I also had a couple of
dead legs with me so they could

see the soft tissues attached to
the bones, but they could also

see the bones. It was really
interesting from my perspective,

because the first time I've done
one, on that topic with clients

and others in the in the horse
world in the local area. And it

was really interesting for me
because I realised very quickly

that none of us as vets have
ever actually explained that you

know, the hip bones connected to
the limb bone, you know not

properly. And we haven't
explained that the hack is

actually the ankle joint. And I
mean, a know people see this on

social media all the time, but I
don't think they actually

understand it until they can see
it in front of them. So we're

all about visual learning.
Because my ultimate aim is to

see very few people for
emergency situations that could

have been prevented. The ethos
is to obviously look after the

client base, but also look after
the staff. So I basically have

two people available who are
qualified child minders, to

swing in and look after five
kids, if nurseries and schools

closed. So that's what I mean
about teamwork and our ethos,

our ethos is about, we support
you so that you can do your job

and you have career advancement,
rather than because you happen

to I've had children it being
forced on you that you have to

work part time.

Naomi Mellor: So just going back
a little step, when you sort of

very casually said, I set off
with my van and I set up a

practice, how much if any
business experience did you

have? How much business planning
did you do? For example, how

much did you actually set down
what you wanted your business to

be?

Shelley Cook: I did put quite a
lot of effort into doing what I

was doing. So I spent
considerable time thinking about

it before I jumped off the cliff
without a parachute. I tend to

work out what is worst case
scenario as a person. And as

long as I know what worst case
scenario is and how to deal with

worst case scenario, then I'm
fine. Everything else is just

the bits in the middle. So I
didn't know if I would be

successful, I hadn't worked at
that stage in 14 months by the

time I actually set out on my
first day. I didn't actually do

any advertising. And all of our
client base has been organically

grown. So what I had on day one
was I had a wholesaler, I hadnt

actually been in contact with
any of the drug reps in the

local area up until the point I
opened my doors. So I haven't

been you know, discussing deals
with drugs or anything like

that. I literally had a
wholesaler, my van, and two

computers and a card machine and
a mobile phone. And I did have a

website in play. But that
literally went live the day I

opened the doors. So I really
did literally put all the stuff

in my van and go. I think my
first delivery arrived the

Friday before I started trading.
And I started trading on the

Monday morning. God love my
husband, his garage was

commandeered, his mancave was
commandeered for about probably

three, four months until I got a
dispensary put in place.

Ebony Escalona: It's incredible
to hear that go getting ness in

you, Shelly. So when you were
talking about, as long as you

knew the worst case scenario,
you were good to go. So how do

Shelley Cook: I've basically
worked out how much money I had

you go about finding that worst
case scenario working through

to invest, to get it up and
moving. And I'm not a massive

that?
I think that's really reassuring

to hear for people. Because I
risk taker when it comes to

owing other people money. I'm
not good with that type of

thing. So I needed to know how
much I needed. So I did the

maths, I had an ultrasound, an
endoscope, and an x ray machine.

Now I didn't buy all of those
outright by any stretch of the

imagination. But I tried to keep
as much of it through personal

finance, for me putting stuff on
a loan or a you know, pay them

back over time. I didn't fancy
it. So my van, I bought my van

outright, because I had cash, I
got it a very good deal on my

farm. And luckily enough at you
know, even though it was in the

middle of COVID, we haven't
quite worked out that there was

going to be a shortage in
microchips, for example. So the

van prices at that stage weren't
as overinflated, as they are

now. Luck had quite a lot to do
with it. You know, people were

still had the money from
furlough, or not going out. So

there was buying of lockdown
horses without vetting. And so

the work was there, basically
from the second week. So yes, it

was a calculated risk, it wasn't
a complete shoot from the hip.

Where I've worked previously,
they would have wanted a full

business plan to buy a new piece
of equipment, whereas I have

gone yeah, it's probably going
to work, it's probably going to

pay for itself. I think we need
think there's a lot of people

who would first of all not feel
it to give our clients a good

servie. So let's go and buy it.
particularly brave about taking

a big step like that, but also
thinking that you have to have

every duck in a row before you
begin, and also to talk about

the kind of ins and outs of
financing stuff because actually

that is really scary when you
think about huge business loans,

for example, or leveraging it
against your mortgage or, you

know, all those sorts of things.
Like it's terrifying for people.

But from an equine practice
perspective, if you know, if

you're setting up a smalls
practice, that is expensive,

you've got to buy a building,
you've got to kit out the

building, whereas from an equine
perspective, it's it's not as

terrifying. You know, we're not
talking half a million pounds.

It wasn't near that I basically
had 50,000 to set up. And I used

50,000 to set up but that 50,000
also gave me a six grand buffer

in the bank account. So that
made it easier to catch myself.

So that gave me basically five
months of payments for my X ray

kit and my ultrasound. So I had
that safety net from that

perspective. And I know 50,000
is a lot of money, don't get me

wrong, you know, it's not me
going up. I just threw 50k at

it. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is if you

compare it to other parts of our
industry, it's relatively

inexpensive to set up.

Ebony Escalona: Since 19th,
October 2020. Perhaps you can

share the the growth that you've
had in that time?

Shelley Cook: It's been fairly
exponential. I have to be

honest. So everything's been by
word of mouth. So we've gone

from, I think at the end of the
first week of two clients, and I

think I had six horses. We're
now sitting at just shy of 2000

horses, and 750 plus clients.

Naomi Mellor: It's amazing isn't
it

Ebony Escalona: I've got goose
bumps

Shelley Cook: It's been slow
build, and that's what you want.

I've been an equine vet for six
years, I was used to a manic on

call during the night, and a
manic on call at weekends. And

basically, for the first year, I
was like, it's too quiet, it's

too quiet, it's too quiet.

Ebony Escalona: Don't say the Q
word. Don't say that word.

Shelley Cook: And actually not
getting hit with the sudden

flurry when you use the dreaded
Q word. But that's okay. Because

from where I was working to
here, the client base is a lot

smaller. So it's okay to not
worry about the fact that you're

not horrifically busy. But
because I've had that for sort

of five, six years prior to
setting up on my own, it was

quite scary to be quiet.

Naomi Mellor: Would you do
anything differently? Like what

advice would you give to Shelly
starting out? Can you tell us a

little bit about any of the kind
of glaring mistakes, I'm sure

you haven't made any.

Shelley Cook: I have. So glaring
mistakes I've made. Not

realising how hard it was to do
everything. Not realising how

many long hours were involved, I
went in on my own, and it was a

very lonely road for a little
while. And there was a lot of

outside pressures going on in
terms of, you know, dealing with

the fallout from having not gone
back to my previous practice.

And it was hard, it really was
hard. And yes, I did share with

friends. But it's not the same.
If you're not actually living

through it, it's much more
difficult. So I probably, in

hindsight, would have got more
help on board quicker. So I

probably in hindsight, should
have had Claire in by the middle

of November, end of November. So
six weeks after I started,

rather than running it and
believing I could do everything

myself, not because there are
any major missed things, but it

just added the pressure to my
day. Whereas when Claire started

because she was experienced in
dealing with answering the

phones for an equine practice,
all of a sudden, I didn't have

that extra responsibility,
sitting here on my shoulder

going well, if the phone rings,
what are you going to do? You're

working with a horse? What are
you going to do? How are you

going to make this look
professional, but at the same

time, not make people think
you're not available. So I

think, also not put as much
pressure on myself, I'm a very

driven person. But I also have
very high expectations of

myself, not necessarily anybody
else, and probably thinking ah

this is gonna be a medium middle
distance run, rather than this

is a marathon and things change.
Things do change in terms of

what you're thinking about doing
next, how you're planning to

bring in business, how you're
planning to maintain business,

that changes depending on what
the economic environment is

doing. So you have to be
prepared ahead and well in

advance to trim your sale. So I
would definitely have more

support. So I would definitely
have had Claire in earlier, I

probably would have had somebody
doing my books because I'm not

good with technology, have
somebody miles on my QuickBooks

or my Zero, because these days,
everything's online, no longer

can go to your accountant, at
the end of the year with a load

of receipts, it's got to be all
digitally done. The time for me

to do it, because I'm quite slow
on that stuff was probably five,

six hours a night, even though
the day hadn't been that busy.

So I was finishing most most
nights at three o'clock in the

morning to start off with when
in fact, if I had a bit a common

sense, I probably would have
done with less sleep

deprivation. Did I mention my
youngest didn't sleep at that

stage at all, either? So I was
kind of balancing no sleep and

no sleep, but from two different
perspective, you know, so I

think in hindsight, I would have
brought in childcare help

sooner, rather than believing
that I could do everything.

Depending on the generation you
are, some of us were brought up

by, you know, the 1970s
feminists, you know, burning the

bras and we can achieve
everything. Well we can, but

only if we have the network
behind us, is what I would say,

no, no woman is an island. No
woman is Superwoman I mean, the

number of people who say to me,
Shelley you must be a

superwoman, I'm not okay, I am
just Shelly. I couldn't do half

the stuff I've done in terms of
setting up this business without

the support of my husband, and
having people in the background

to catch the stuff that I am
dropping. So because my focus is

a lot on the business, there
will be times where I do need

other people to catch me or
catch, you know, stuff that I

can't get done. It's just being
honest about that, not in an

depressive way. I mean, it's
been a great 20 months and I'm

looking forward to the next, you
know, 25 years, but at the same

time, having that support
network. The saying is about

raising children, it takes a
village. It's exactly the same

in a business. And we have
worked very hard in our wee

company to have the support for
everybody. And it does work

really well. But it's taken an
awful lot of work to do that.

And again, it's been about
choosing the right staff to

complement each other, thinking
you can kind of throw it

together doesn't work that way.
Everybody's an individual, but

you need sort of not like minded
people in terms of Yes men,

you're not looking for Yes men,
but what you are looking for is

you're looking for people who
have different strengths to you.

Ebony Escalona: It's a jigsaw
puzzle, isn't it? It's about

supporting and finding that fit
and I really enjoyed your

reflection, then it's, it's so
important that you actually

double down on your strengths,
because your weaknesses, in

inverted commas, are someone
else's, like dream job, right?

And we don't have to do
everything, everything alone. I

think that's such a great
reflection. If you were gonna do

it again that, dont you think?

Naomi Mellor: Definitely. I'm
with you on bookkeeping.

Ebony Escalona: Really don't
like nothing with a spreadsheet.

Naomi Mellor: Yeah, I'm like
give that to somebody else

please.

Shelley Cook: Pretty much. So we
have Richard, whose what I would

class as avet tech. So he comes
out to difficult horses and

stuff. That's the other thing we
have, we have support in vet

tech form to help us with
difficult horses, because that's

the other problem with being an
equine vet, you turn up to

medicate and you discover that
actually, you know, Mrs. Smith

can't actually handle Pye, for
example, and actually Pye

basically wants to kick the
living daylights out of you. So,

in order to help you nerve block
and help you, we have people

like Rich and the great thing
about Rich is Rich likes

numbers. It took us about five
or six months to work out Rich

liked numbers, but he now does
the books. He does it one day a

week. What would have taken me
five, six hours a night he does

it in literally four or five
hours one day a week

Ebony Escalona: Send him over

Shelley Cook: Yeah, no, he's
mine, I'm afraid I'm holding on

him. Use those strengths. So
that's definitely his strength.

He likes numbers. He's grown in
confidence from a practical

point of view, because he's just
submitted his first VAT return.

And that's great, because you
can see the confidence in him

building. Same with some of our
reception staff, they had a

pretty rough ride at McDonald's,
just watching the self

confidence as everybody sort of
bounces off the positivity of

everybody else's energy and
strength. And it doesn't matter

if you've got weaknesses, which
is a very unusual thing to say

in the vet industry. None of us
are allowed weaknesses, no, we

are allowed weaknesses, we just
have to have the catch net

behind us to support us and help
those not be so big.

Ebony Escalona: Absolutely. And
I know from speaking to some of

your other veterinary colleagues
that they were scared to come in

first weren't they and have team
meetings and huddles because

they'd never had a positive
experience in those spaces. Now

they feel very differently, they
can bring ideas forward. So I'm

aware that some of your
colleagues have come in and

said, we want to buy this bit of
kit. This is the kind of niche I

want to go down. And you've
supported that.

Shelley Cook: Yes. And that's
what we do. Because, you know, I

like lame horses. I mean, I like
my medicine too. But Lame horses

is kind of a thing, you know, I
quite like sticking my head

between a set of back legs and
hoping for the best I don't get

kicked off. Whereas Lucy really
loves medicine. So we have

supported and help her develop
her niche within the practice. I

mean, we still both do medicine,
we both gastric scope, we both

endoscope, but she was the one
who wanted to bring it into

place. And in the surgery, we've
done that with same with our

shock wave machine. So we have a
shock wave machine. Because the

shock wave machines I dealt with
previously were focal set. So

you know, tiny little hand gun.
This one's actually a radial

one. So it's used in human
medicine, as well as in equine.

It wasn't the cheapest thing
I've ever bought. But at the

same time, I can see the
advantage of it for horses that

maybe have musculoskeletal
problems that aren't just as

simple as barring stuff in by
needle. And again, Lucy came to

me with that idea. So rather
than the focal set, why don't

you go for a radial one. And
that's what we've done, you

know, and I'm quite happy to
support staff to fly. It's

lovely to watch people who've
walked in and, I mean Lucy, she

was the same as me, she was
ready to leave the industry,

which for the industry, in terms
of the equines that we have in

this neck of the woods would
have been a great shame, you

know, helping her to get her
confidence back and know that

she wasn't going to be knocked
back every five minutes or, you

know, she wasn't just a number,
has taken time. But you know,

she is a much happier person in
her working life but also her

private life as a consequence,
because both private life and

working life are very closely
interlinked. If you're not happy

in one, than the other suffers,
you know, I wanted a practice

where, I'm not going to use the
tag of everybody's treated like

family, because that's usually
complete and utter nonsense I

wanted it to be a real community
and that's what we've created.

We've created a real community
where everybody has each other's

backs. I mean, I ended up in
hospital a couple of weeks ago

and I was meant to be on call
that weekend. And Lucy, without

being asked, basically phoned me
and said, You know, I'm picking

this up, which having had as bad
a scenario in terms of health

previously, and I didn't get
that support at the time because

I was on call. And I didn't have
that support there at all. There

was a discussion a couple of
weeks ago or a couple of nights

ago on on the Vets Stay Go
Diversify site on Facebook about

what's flexibility. And yes, I
did start it. But it was to find

out what flexible working is for
everybody, because it's

different. It's different on the
life stage that you're in. And

it's not a case of having
listened to conversations about

flexible working, there's been a
lot said about, well, it's

different stages in your life,
you need different things. But

also, I don't believe that just
because you've hit that stage in

life, that your needs and wants
to get wiped to one side, we

have to work more as a community
within the workplace, to help

everybody do what they need to
do.

Ebony Escalona: That so so true,
social media is littered in all

the different groups on this
side of the pond, the other side

of the pond globally that, you
know, you can't be a general

equine practitioner and have a
family. What do you think we

need to be doing to kind of
smash that myth? Because it's

Shelley Cook: I think
everybody's should just come and

not true.
ride beside me for a bit. Well

look, you know, I'm knocking it
out of the park. I mean, we've

had, you know, as a vet
practice, in terms of what our

clients think of us, we're down
to the final three for the

Equine Business Awards for best

Naomi Mellor: Absolutely.
equine practice in the whole of

the UK. So we know that we are
doing the right thing by our

clients, we know that we're
doing the right thing by our

staff. And you know, both Lucy
and myself have three kids in

total, under the age of five,
and we're managing to smash it

out of the park. And yes,
there's always going to be, you

know, good days and bad days,
some days, you, you know, you're

ready for the hills, but you're
probably ready for the hills

anyway, if you know what I mean,
it hasn't been because of the

precise place you're working in.

Shelley Cook: I mean, can we
have Shelley for BVA president,

It's just circumstance, I would
say that, in comparison to where

I was three years ago, there are
a lot more good days for me than

bad now, and it would have been
completely the opposite way. And

I think we as employers, but
also staff need to start

thinking outside the box a bit
more about how we help everybody

because it's all fine and dandy
saying, you know, my practice

has a great work life balance.
Well, my great work life balance

would be completely different to
yours Ebony. would be completely

different to yours Naomi.
Everybody has a different idea

of what work life balance is.
You know, we all say that we'd

please, at some point?
love to work to live, not live

to work. But unfortunately,
life's not like that. So some

people will, will need to work
to live. And some will need to

live to work because that's how
they're driven and how they're

put together. And we need to
stop trying to put loads of

square pegs into circles.

Ebony Escalona: Just Shelley for
Prime Minister?

Shelley Cook: I'm good. I've got
enough to deal with I think my

husband would divorce me if I
did that.

Naomi Mellor: So much knowledge
and wisdom. I sometimes find it

really demoralising when people
say you can't do this, you can't

do that. It's impossible to make
that work. And it's wonderful to

hear such positivity from
somebody who is doing it and is

making it work and actually has
got a brilliant thriving,

growing practice exemplifying
all the things that we love, and

everything that we're trying to
talk about in this podcast. So,

Shelley, thank you so, so much
for your time. It's been really

wonderful to chat.

Blaise Scott-Morris: What an
amazing show. Many thanks to

today's guests. If you want more
information, have a look at the

show notes or drop us a line at
[e-mail].