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You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
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Speaker 1:Find out more by following us on social media or going to our website at youcanmentor.com. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:What up, mentors and mentoring leaders? Hey. I'm here to talk about the National Christian Mentoring Gathering. I would love to see you and your team join us in Colorado Springs, Colorado, April Sixteenth through the eighteenth. We're gonna be there for three days.
Speaker 2:We're gonna get refreshed and recharged as Christian mentoring leaders. At the gathering, we're gonna connect with God and other mentoring executives, learn best practices. We're gonna build key relationships to collaborate and encourage each other. There's gonna be good food, beautiful surroundings in gorgeous Colorado, meaningful conversations, I promise you and your team will leave inspired, equipped, and ready to pour out. Go to our website, youcanmentor.com, to learn more and to sign up.
Speaker 2:Can't wait to see you in Colorado. You can mentor. Sign up today. Welcome to the You Can Mentor podcast. This is your boy, Zach, and I'm here with Grant Skeldon.
Speaker 2:Grant, say hi. Hey. Good to be with you guys. Man, Grant, it is so good to have you, man. I've loved keeping up with you and what's going on up in Nashville.
Speaker 2:And so, man, how's it going today?
Speaker 3:It's going good. Married, for four years now and about to be Valentine's Day. And so, and then also, working on a old home. That's what, me and Shayan are always up to these days. We bought a hundred year old house, and, honestly, Zach, she's, like, so outdoing me in the construction area.
Speaker 3:Her dad was a carpenter, but it's pretty crazy what this girl can do compared to what I know how to do.
Speaker 2:Dude, it is it is it is the same thing with, like, I mean, I I barely know how to, like, use a hammer, use a screwdriver, but then my wife has her, like, kit. Like, she's got, like, all of the tools. She's got the tool belt. And, like I mean, I was trying to tell that to my dad, and he, like, could not comprehend it. He was like, woah.
Speaker 2:Wait. What? Wait. Wait. You you don't do it, but your wife does?
Speaker 2:I'm like, yeah. And he's like, that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I help a ton, but she's yeah. I mean, it's a lot of math at the end of the day, and she held good at this I need this this machine or this tool to do it the right way. And, yeah, if she runs into a problem, she just calls her dad and FaceTime them.
Speaker 3:And, it's been cool to see her her do that, and then, we came to a really close point last night and building a guest room. So we're excited.
Speaker 2:Alright. Super fun, man. Yeah. So I I'm at Grant. I mean, heck, dude.
Speaker 2:It's, like, 02/2018, '2 thousand '19, perhaps.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Man, I so here's a fun fact, Grant. So I started to write a book because of our interaction.
Speaker 3:Romani, it's explain it to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we were in the coffee shop of a church in Dallas.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:And we had, we had met through, like, a couple friends, and you had just released your first book.
Speaker 3:I do remember now. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I just said something. I was like, man, you know, it would be so cool to write books. Like, I try to write on the side and this and that. And you were just so encouraging. You were like, dude, you need to call this person and you need to keep writing and you needed that.
Speaker 2:I'm like, okay, fine. And like, sure enough. I got that guy's, cell phone number and I called him and we spent time together. And about eighteen months later, I had a book in my hand. So, yeah, thanks so much for that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, honestly, Zach, what what I love about you is, a couple of things is, one, I know that you were impacted by discipleship and definitely prioritized discipleship, but, everyone it's hard in today's culture because everyone cares about discipleship, values discipleship, thinks it's important. It's one of the hardest problems is when the thing you're advocating for is something that everyone actually is for, they just don't do and or know how to do or ever received. And so, having more people like you that are practitioners doing it and then putting it in in word form so people that will never meet you or could read your book when you're asleep, could be impacted by it. I was like, yeah.
Speaker 3:We need more practitioners that do the hard work of pausing for a moment, putting it into the word format so more people could be impacted by it. So, yeah, it's awesome that I gotta play some type of role in that.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks a lot for saying that, Grant. Yeah, man. Like, I I just have a heart to if if I can help people remove obstacles to build relationships with kids, specifically kids who have experienced hard things in the name of Jesus. I mean, that's an honor and a gift. And it's fun, you know, like, man, like, it is so fun to see people's lives and generations be transformed because someone stepped it, you know?
Speaker 2:And so
Speaker 3:Yeah. Can I ask you a question actually on that? Because that's a little different than my my experiences. You kinda made an emphasis on mentorship and discipleship of, young people who have been through hard things. Would you say yeah.
Speaker 3:How is it different when someone mentors or just that was someone that's been through some difficult seasons alive compared to, let's say, you're talking to a church in Newport Beach who's gonna disciple kids in Newport Beach. Not to say none of them have been through hard things. It's it's gonna be different types of hard, if you will. But how would you maybe coach those people in Newport to those people in, like, South Dallas? Because I know you've done a lot of work in the Dallas, area as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. That's a great question, Grant. I would just say like kinda the more harder things that a kid has experienced, right? Like if they've experienced certain kinds of trauma, like if they come from like a single parent home or if they've experienced certain kinds of poverty, you just kind of got to wade, like you, you got to kind of wade into their mess and you have to be patient with them. And I would say the most important thing that I would say is kind of what separates mentoring a kid, making a disciple of a kid who has experienced those things is just, you have to, truly work hard to create that kind of trust and you have to create a safe environment.
Speaker 2:Whereas a kid who maybe hasn't experienced those kinds of things, they're a lot, they're kind of a lot kind of quicker to trust and they don't, they're not on the lookout for ways that this person can kind of hurt them. So, yeah. Yeah, man.
Speaker 3:Would you say that loyalty after though on the back end is maybe a little stronger?
Speaker 2:Oh, dude. 100%. Like, this happens all all of the time. Like, someone says, hey, I wanna mentor. They start spending time with a kid for the first month.
Speaker 2:It's, you know, this kid's giving them nothing for the first six months. This kid's giving them nothing, but that something switches. And man, I have seen it take as long as eighteen months. But it's kinda like once they truly believe that you're for them, once they know that they know that you love them, not for what they do, but for who they are and that, you know, you're a safe place, then they're all in. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it I would say that it kinda does take longer, but, I would also say just that, like, I don't wanna say it's more impactful, but if a kid who comes from, like, you know, kind of a stronger family, they've got aunts, uncles, grandma, grandpa, they've got a youth group, they've got k life, they've got young life, they've got coaches, like, you're one of their mentors. But for some of these kids that we spend time with, it's like, man, they might not have one person who's investing in them. They might not have one person who's asking them a bunch of questions or just saying, hey, man. I'm here for it.
Speaker 3:So Like a lifeline. Yeah. For sure. But
Speaker 2:well, Grant, man, you're asking me all of these questions, and I'm I had you on the podcast to ask you, man. So switching it up. Okay. So, Grant, man, you are up to, like, a bunch of things. You are starting a church.
Speaker 2:Isn't that right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. We started a church a year and four months ago, called Way Church in Nashville.
Speaker 2:Okay. Okay. How's it going with that?
Speaker 3:I I'm a big believer in the five fold ministry. I think I think every single Christian should be way more familiar with their five fold leaning from Ephesians four, than their Enneagram or their DISC assessment or all those things. And I don't I don't, think those things are bad. I think anything that can make you more self aware is is helpful, but, I think people should be, like, well acquainted with, if if you're not familiar in in Ephesians four eleven, we know that usually the second half of this verse. We don't often know the first half is it says that God gave us apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, teachers to build up the body and equip the saints for the work of ministry.
Speaker 3:We usually just quote the build up the body and equip the saints for the work of ministry. And what's, what a miss in my opinion that we don't, talk about the through apostolic wiring, I believe, prophetic wiring, evangelistic wiring, shepherding wiring, and teacher wiring. And so since we don't emphasize all of those, we tend to just go with what we've seen in the church, which often, I believe, overglorifies speaking and underglorifies disciple making. So it's a lot of young people. I see them every day.
Speaker 3:We all see them who wanna be speakers. They want to be great orators or communicators, and I'm not I'm not against it. But I say all that to say most of the time senior pastors are teachers or maybe prophetic speakers. And just to be clear, I don't believe there are are apostles today, and I don't think there are prophets today. I would say wiring.
Speaker 3:I do think there are gifting. Jonathan Pakluda is a mutual friend of both of ours, and, and I told him this. And, even, like, Matt Chandler and I I think these guys are considered, like, great speakers or even bible teachers, but the difference between a teacher is a teacher shines light on god's word while a prophetic wiring shines light on man's heart in light of God's word. And usually they're calling you to something higher. Like, to me, Francis Chan is one of the best at doing it.
Speaker 3:He rarely teaches you anything new. He just convicts you of things you still haven't obeyed yet. And, it's good. We need people to call us higher, call us back, reform us, if you will. And all that to say, Noah Herron, pastor Noah Herron at my church, he is just turned 30 years old, and this dude is an evangelist.
Speaker 3:Big time on evangelism. It is rare you see someone who's a senior pastor who's an evangelist because it's hard for an evangelist to be within the confines of the church. Because once you get plugged into a church more, even as a Christian, let alone a Christian leader, you just start being around Christians most of the time. If you look at your calendar, you have to like carve out time and work to start being around unbelievers. And so for him, there's a big buildup to say, like, he is sharing the gospel every Sunday.
Speaker 3:I've never been to a church that's as evangelistic as him. He's constantly thinking of those who haven't, come to church before or are searching. And, it's honestly the perfect place at the perfect time being in Nashville when so many people are moving here. I jokingly call Nashville the Caitlin Clark of cities. Like everyone's talking about it.
Speaker 3:We came out of nowhere. Everyone's moving here from all over and, exactly, like 80% of our church did not even live in Nashville, four or five years ago. It's mostly new people who've moved here recently and, all churches are being impacted by that, but we've really focused on community because they're new to the city and that's what they're looking for and in evangelism. And then I want to very, soon focus more on discipleship because it's a lot of new believers, but over the last year and a half, as he shared the gospel, no matter what the sermon is, even on vision Sunday, he shared the gospel, gives an opportunity to respond. Even right now, we're going through Sermon on the Mount.
Speaker 3:And his text, luckily, as I teach once a month, I'm on the teaching team. His text was on divorce two weeks ago. And even then, he found a way to tie let this go. So he always used, like, the last three minutes, and how does the gospel reflect what we've talked about today? And, he did he did that, and still, like, six people got saved.
Speaker 3:But over the last year and a half, over 400 people have given their lives to Jesus, mostly young people. I'd say about 80% of our church is also 40. And anyway so, ironically, some young people I mentored and one of the executive pastors, someone I discipled back in college, and now we all as friends. Again, I said right time, right place. And then I would just say right group of friends that get to, like, start a church together has been super, super fun to see, quickly what what God's doing.
Speaker 2:And and so what a great reminder for us who are mentoring, who are building relationships with kiddos, just like there really isn't ever a bad time to share the gospel, like to really talk about Jesus, talk about what he's been up to in your life, or talk about how, you know, you have seen him move. I mean, I wanna, I wanna focus in on that word that you said community. Like how, how can community help enhance or help, you in your mentoring discipleship journey?
Speaker 3:Man, there's so many directions to go with that. I how can community help advance in your discipleship journey? I mean, one of the first ways, if you wanna reach the next generation, you've gotta focus on community. I often say that the next generation is absolutely saturated with content, but they are starved with connection. And so for us, we are heavily focused on community at Wake Church because, people are new and they're moving to the city.
Speaker 3:And often when you move to a new city, especially if you bring your family with you, it's a major step of faith. And, I have a mentor named Eric Swanson who would often say this line that people are people are most susceptible to the gospel in transition more than instability. And so if you think about even your story of when you came to the Lord, often it was exactly for me, it was all right after a big breakup of three years. It, for many people it's after some type of shift or this, it's like it changes something in their story, and it really reveals to us what has always been the case is we didn't have control of our life. We had things that comforted or numbed our life.
Speaker 3:But those changes open our hands. And so as new people move, maybe I invited them to church before, and on a Wednesday night thing or Sunday, they're like, oh, Sunday mornings is when we like to do this. They have their routine, they have their rhythms after they're safety net, if you will. But when they're new, it's kinda like you I've found even unbelievers to move to a new city sometimes like, god, if you're there, would you just make this a smooth transition? Would you give us friends fast?
Speaker 3:Would you give us neighbors that we enjoy? Will you put my kid in stools that, the teacher takes, like, a liking to them, and they find their friends? This is so gonna be so hard for our kids to to to feed from where they're at. And, if you can be a church that's like, we're not just gonna welcome you because I think that's a lot of what church is focused on is hospitality, mostly welcoming and welcoming environment, which is good. Like, there's always the welcome home signs at all churches, which is, again, so good, positive thing, not bad thing.
Speaker 3:But my goal is not to welcome people alone to an event. My goal is to connect people to other people. Because if I cannot just make you feel welcome, but I can actually, Sunday connect you to someone who kinda potentially could resonate with you. Like, I'm trying to ask as I'm walking them. I walk people to the to the room.
Speaker 3:It's not just hello and you're welcome. It's, hey. Are you how long have you been coming? And, if they then the first question usually is, have you lived here for a long time? Are you new here?
Speaker 3:If they say no, then where'd where'd you move from? As soon as I know the state they moved from, I wanna think, who do I know when this church is also from that state? What kind of work do you do? Once I know someone and it's like, oh, they do that kind of work. Who do I know in this church that also does that kind of work?
Speaker 3:Because if I can sit them as a new or new ish person to someone else who they can be like, oh, you're from this city too, or you're from that state, or, it's just quick connection. Like I'm trying to, eliminate hurdles. And now all of a sudden, they're not just coming back because they felt welcome or they thought the sermon was good or worship was good. It's like, oh, I actually have someone like you. I got their number.
Speaker 3:They wanna sit together again. Ideally, it moves beyond just sitting together because that is not community alone. It's actually not community. I'm not I'm not yeah. I'm not that's not who I'm calling when things are hard is who I sit with.
Speaker 3:So it's a start. But I want them to exchange numbers, get together afterwards, maybe to go to lunch together. And so last thing I'll say on this act is, like, we we really try to, train our our people to be, like, really good listeners of people who are new. Like again, people who are in transition are are more susceptible to gospel than those instability. And so if they're new, I say that's like a dog whistle, like there's dogs that can hear that dog whistle that no one else can hear.
Speaker 3:If you hear that at Waychurches with the missionary mindset was just one of our core values, we we stop hanging with the friends that we get to see every week, and we know we're comfortable and say, how do we include that person into this conversation? And ideally, if that can spill into our community, especially our jobs, like you got someone who just joined your job, make it so much easier for them to get connected to the friend group. Then it then people maybe made it for you. If someone's new to the neighborhood, so much easier for them to get connected. That's like, I think gonna win hand over fist against any other type of church is you are a community first church, not just just a welcoming one.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And like, as I hear all of that and I'm thinking about mentoring, it's like, man, that that connection over content. Like, that is just gonna win the day 100 times out of 100 because, yeah, there are there are so many young people out there today who they I mean, they've got all the books. They've got the Internet. They've got, you know, anything that they want, they can find on their phone, but what can't they find on their phone?
Speaker 2:They can't find that connection. Yeah. And like some of our mentees, right, like they might be going through transition. Maybe they thought that they were gonna make, you know, the make the basketball team and they didn't. Maybe they had a girlfriend and they just broke up.
Speaker 2:Maybe they changed schools. Maybe they moved. And for us as mentors to know that, oh, okay. When there is transition, that is a great time for me to talk about Jesus and to talk about hope and to talk about the one person who won't ever fail you, the one person who won't ever leave you.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And then, man, just like there is so much power in connecting your mentee to your network. So, like, if your mentee likes baseball and I don't like baseball, but I have a buddy who does, what a what a great opportunity for me to connect my mentee to as many caring adults who like the same things that they like. I just think that that's a win, man.
Speaker 3:So Yeah. I mean, you totally change your scorecard, on success if you start introducing someone, like, five years, especially ten years younger than you to what's normal in your community. Like, I mean, one of the biggest things for me was two weeks into getting saved, having a man, Kevin Bautista, know that I just got saved and call me and basically invite me to he did more of a follow me type of, relationship, and I there's, of course, like, come and meet with me, and we're gonna talk to the bible, pray, maybe talk about, your week and how I could, help guide you and give you advice. But it was definitely he's like, I don't have the time to meet with you, I'll be honest. He's like, but if you follow me, if you make the time, you can join me when I'm at work.
Speaker 3:He was a pastor, so he had a little more flexibility with his work, sometimes with his family. And, yeah, especially being around him and leaders and kind of leader meetings he was having, I was like, man, I wanna be like this guy. I mean, as you already know, the discipleship being caught more than the top is really shifted my my store card in a lot of ways. But what I will say, Zach, for, for connection and and community, how much it matters to discipleship because what I was talking about maybe is a little more broad, like church culture, and how to connect them. I would say for discipleship, I'm going be trying to go beyond even connection to that's where you get the opportunity to create something you don't really get to do in church too much is, instead of thinking about content, you can create core memories.
Speaker 3:And when I said, who am I gonna call when things get hard? Again, it's not often who I just sat with once or twice during church, but if I've had core memories with you, I think I would call you. Like, if I have core memories with you, if I need help in a certain thing and I'm like, oh, I keep running into this wall here, but I'm like, oh, but I know them and I know they're good at that or I've seen their marriage and and that I there there are a couple steps ahead seriously. They've been there and done that. I don't whether they're some big leader, I don't think, oh, maybe they're too busy for me or, maybe I need to get, through their assistant and maybe find a time.
Speaker 3:I'm like, no, I got their number. We stayed up till, like, one in the morning at this camp one time. And that, like, we just had this connection with, fun adventure, whatever it is, spontaneity. However, I can create core memories among the right people. That's I found when if I could only have two days with, let's say getting mentors and mentees together, if I can create core memories, it will spill over for the next like year or two, because those like bonds that we just don't have in today's society anymore, like, you know, Zach and I I'm realizing, especially too, how much you have to fight for community after college.
Speaker 3:It's like before college, it's built in, you're on sports leagues, at school, you're probably on a sports league, even outside of school. You're, you're on a literal team. If you asked most people, when did you feel the most, like you were part of something with the group of people that had your back, even people twenty, thirty, forty years past this point, they'll be like, oh, it was back in like high school or maybe college sports. And I'm like, we've got to create that kind of connection and core memories outside of just that time in life. But after college, which again, you live near each other, you're you may be even in sororities or fraternities, But after that, you would live in a neighborhood that you rarely, even barely, maybe know the neighbor next to you, let alone just two two two two homes away.
Speaker 3:That's really far. You barely often know even the neighbor right next to you left next to you on the right. You're, like, maybe know their name, have essentially never been over. You kinda know what they do, and it is a different world after college. And so, of course, we're lonely.
Speaker 3:And so if you can, create these core memories for these people no matter what age, it's like they I think all generations desperately need core memories connection way more than just more content. They can get on Google today. They can chat GBT can can do it all at this point. Like, we are not set apart from the world by just giving more content. But if we can get content through relationships, that's literally how Jesus did it.
Speaker 3:Like, his sermons are not. Yeah, most of the sermons we preach aren't even from his sermons. Most of the sermons we preach are from his conversations with people. We just have turned them into sermons, but we have way more, content from his conversations than actually his sermons.
Speaker 2:Man, and, and I think one thing that I hear so often, Grant, whenever I talk to people about mentoring, making, disciples is like, I just don't feel like I'm qualified. Like, I don't feel like I have anything to offer. Maybe, you know, they're not as far along in their, in their job as they want to be. Maybe their kids aren't perfect, you know, but if you can just spend time with the kid, if you can just show up and if you can listen to them and if you can make them feel like they have worth and like they have value, like this isn't rocket science, right? Like it is.
Speaker 2:It is just showing up and building that relationship day after day and trying to help them experience the love of Christ by your actions, by your words, by showing up. But, man, just like if, you could just kinda tell me, like, what are some of the road, like some of the roadblocks that you've seen in regards to why people don't wanna start getting into these kinds of relationships?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I've got about four reasons that I've heard the most. We could call them excuses. We could call them common roadblocks or barriers to discipleship. I do think they're warranted, but I I the four most consistent reasons I hear someone, Basically, yeah, the four most consistent reasons why I ever hear someone say this is why I would have a problem or challenge to find someone is number one, actually, is not even a spiritual, reason.
Speaker 3:It's just I don't have time. They the married people with full time jobs and kids are not thinking this weekend about what they're gonna do with their free time. So that's true. They just don't have time. Like, most of the time, that is I don't have time grant.
Speaker 3:I don't have time to do what I need to do for myself. I don't even feel like I'm I get enough time with my own kids. I'm trying to carve things out of my schedule, not add more. So that's why I do think it's important to differentiate the type of, like, mentorship and discipleship, like, what kind of format are we talking about? Are we talking about come and meet with me?
Speaker 3:Are we talking about come and follow me? Because you may not have time to add something to your calendar, but you may have time to include someone in your calendar. It all depends on on your time. Two is not just I don't have time, but it's, I don't feel qualified, like you just said, Zach. And, that is a super common one, and the enemy has been going after that one successfully for years.
Speaker 3:The irony is you don't ever read the scriptures and see someone who's qualified being called by God. And so, I always like to stay, especially when and it pertains to discipleship, when it comes to that concern of I don't feel qualified is I try to remind people or change the question, basically. I would say instead of asking yourself, do you feel qualified to disciple someone, I wanna ask you, do you feel like you're spiritually a couple steps ahead? Because often if we ask, do we feel qualified to do anything that God calls us to do? I don't think he wants us to feel qualified.
Speaker 3:So let's just throw that question out. But I would say, do you feel spiritually a couple steps ahead of the next generation? Because that's all it takes. Like, Paul didn't say come and be like me. He said come and follow me as I follow Christ.
Speaker 3:And I love that because it takes the weight off of it's not me making you like me. It's also in me not being happening to be perfect. I sometimes even say, look, I wanna pour into you or you're asking to be poured into by me. Follow me as I stumble towards them, or you can stumble with me as I stumble towards them. I will not, stay here.
Speaker 3:I will continue to grow close to them, but it won't be won't be perfect. And then, last thing I'll say on this this qualified thing I've been thinking about lately is, this is funny, but I've noticed that every stage of life seems to have, like, a question that you're haunted by. Like, when I was single, I was always haunted by the question, when are you gonna get a girlfriend? And then when you finally get a girlfriend, like, it could be a week into having a girlfriend, and people then switch the question to your new haunted question. It's, hey, what what are you thinking about proposing?
Speaker 3:I'm like, no, I've just finally got a girlfriend. And now you one weekend asking, when am I gonna propose? It was crazy this happened to me and Shyamalan finally proposed. I'm talking about at the proposal party. People were like, do you guys have a date?
Speaker 3:You guys think you're gonna have kids? It's like, once you get married, it's like, when are you guys thinking about having kids? Once you have I always wonder after you have your your kid, what's the question after that? And I've learned it's, are you gonna have another kid? When are you gonna have another kid?
Speaker 3:And eventually, I guess it's, are you done having kids? And it just seems like it keeps going and going. It's like, then the questions even are about your kids. When do your kids enter into school? When do they graduate?
Speaker 3:Now you're vicariously answering questions to them. And and, basically, it's like every new stage. When are you gonna become an empty nester? What is that gonna look like? And and I think it's good as it shows, like, there's these stages and their seasons.
Speaker 3:And so you might be five, seven, just two questions ahead of some of the people that you think you're not qualified to help, but you've been through that stage. So even if it's mostly lessons to pain, you can help them avoid that pain because you've been through that season, let alone if there was some wise decisions you made that you're like, hey. I learned a little bit the hard way, but I did figure this out. And if I could give you any advice in this season, I think you should prioritize it. And for the life of you try to avoid this, that's like, innumerately helpful for young people in in a stage that's two, three, four steps behind you.
Speaker 2:And like I have found that the most powerful thing, which this makes sense because they talk about it in the Bible is just your testimony. Like your testimony has so much power. And I think whenever I think of testimony, I'm not thinking about how I came to know Jesus. I'm just talking about me living life as a disciple of, you know, as a disciple of Jesus. And so it's like, man, my stories, like I can tell you, Hey, here are the five things that you need to know in order to go to college.
Speaker 2:Or I can tell a story about me whenever I was in high school, trying to figure out how to go to college.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So good. Man, man, but with associated, testimonies, like, honestly, mostly to evangelism, but that is so true is a testimony is a is a a tool for a dishonorship as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. Like, you know, Peter Lewis, Peter's up in Dallas, so he's a good friend of mine. And, like, he he told me this a long time ago. He was like, man, once upon a time is just gonna be so much better than ABC. And I was like, man, that is such a good, like, just there's so much land in our in our story.
Speaker 2:So like, I know we, especially me as a mentor, like, I love to give advice. I'm like, hey. Here are the 17 things that you need to know in order to have a quiet time and go to college and get married and not have sex before marriage. And I've just found that, like, that is just not for 90% of the kids that I spend time with. They're not interested in my advice because they've got so many people giving them advice.
Speaker 2:They've got teachers, they got coaches, they got and so but what I have found is when you share your story, one, it is more engaging, but two, there's a level of authenticity and you just being just so open that screams humility. And there's nothing more attractive than being humble. And so you can talk about your successes all day long and that's good. But when you start talking about your failures and when you start talking about how you messed up or when you start talking about how, hey, man, I did this and actually this happened and it was really hard. That just tends to be something that a kid's going to remember just a whole lot better.
Speaker 2:Do you know? Like Yeah. You you talk about creating these core kind of, kind of kind of memories, which is fantastic. And some of my favorite things that I can remember is whenever a person that I thought was perfect shared a story about how they weren't perfect. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I was like, oh my gosh, not the game changer.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. John Maxwell has a pretty popular quote where he says, if you wanna impress people, share your successes, but if you wanna impact people, then share your failures. And dude, honestly, yeah, I'm, I, I was excited to come on this and this is why I'm asking you questions because, because I I've always wanted to learn a different angle on, on this level of mentorship that I haven't, learned, but that testimony I concept is, is really big and there's so much less weight and pressure. It feels like for every person, it was like, no, it's not.
Speaker 3:You need to be able to preach the whole gospel. I was just like, tell your testimony. And and it takes the weight over. It's not even, oh, and you're the hero. It's this is just how I responded to what god did.
Speaker 3:He's the instigator, and I did respond. That's my but I I'm I'm step two. I'm not step one. And, yeah, just yeah. Just what you said about, Yeah.
Speaker 3:Just, I mean, that's that's, super then lastly, yeah, you say they're talking about stories. It's making me think about one of my kinda coaches and mentoring when I was really young. I don't know if he's right or wrong, but I feel like I've seen through experience that he's right. He he was really big on, like, dude, don't just go in, start a message, and it's, like, say controversial stuff and try to, like, convict them and then make your points. He's like, tell a story.
Speaker 3:He's like, and it's pretty common. If you watch any TED talk, it almost always is like I almost, like, laugh at the way because they're so mechanical about it, but it's like, it was 1882, and the Benjamin is like or there I was laying on the ground wondering how did I get? So they, they always start with a story, but you do, he said, you know, people just stories disarm people at the beginning. People may not follow you if you start with a lesson, but they'll follow you if you start with a story, because they have no reason to not trust your story. And, again, there's less ways.
Speaker 3:I, I really like that. I wanna encourage people more in the discipleship, especially if they don't feel qualified as like, Hey, you don't need to be a great oratory. Can you, can you share your story? Is, is it small nuance, but like super helpful and practical way?
Speaker 2:Well, and like I have found too, in this age of like social media where like everyone's trying to look perfect. It's like, man, kids actually are more like they desire more someone who isn't that because it almost gives them permission to not be perfect. You know? Right. So Right.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:Hey, Quilks. Story, if you're cool with me sharing this is Yeah. Yeah. Please. Just making me think of it is, back in the day, I I, of course, I lived in Dallas before Nashville with being with Saint and Gabriel and Rebecca.
Speaker 3:And I remember when I was writing the passion generation, I was thinking, you know, I wanna interview a couple people who are just amazing parents, in the sense that they didn't just raise kids that were all believers. They raised kids that were, like, powerhouse leaders. And and that's not the requirement to be a great parent, but it says something when, like, every one of your kids is amazing. And there's there's not too many I know like that. In fact, I I have an episode, coming out on my podcast next up with Lisa Bevere.
Speaker 3:And I do think John and Lisa Bevere, they're I know all their sons and all of them are amazing. But more than that, you, well, it's not a competition, but I would say Doctor. Tony Evans, I gotta give him his flowers, is that his kids are like amazing. And and not even just, oh, they're all pastors. They're in different industries.
Speaker 3:Like from what I understand is Jonathan is is a chaplain for, I think, the Mavericks and the Cowboys. Then, two of his daughters, speakers, Anthony Evans in music, and I believe a coach on The Voice. And it's like they all have and hold their conviction. They all lead. They all some in the ministry, some not in ministry, different industries.
Speaker 3:And, anyway, one of my friends thankfully got me, like, a thirty minute meeting with doctor Evans, one of the most nervous, meetings I ever had, because I'm like, I just wanted to ask you, man, what is like one of the biggest things that you believe contributed? Like number one, you had to narrow it to one, contributed to the strong faith of your kids being great leaders. And he's Tony Evans. I'm thinking he's gonna say the Bible is one of the best Bible teachers. I think he was gonna say maybe the pulpit, maybe for sure the church, like a village to raise a child.
Speaker 3:It's the whole community. And he, like, just tapped the table in front of us. He said it was it was the table. That was probably the biggest thing that contributed to it. And, I gotta memorize this verse that he he quoted, but it was around, like, the idea of your family is around the table, and they it's a verse in Proverbs, I believe, and they grow up to be long, shoots, I believe it it said.
Speaker 3:And, he just said, we were so intentional with the table. Like, family dinners were super important. Even today, apparently, the kids fly back once a month, once every two months, and they do dinner together. Now I don't know how busy they are. They're coming together at the table.
Speaker 3:He said, new relationships were in your life, whether it's new friends, especially someone you're dating, hey. That's fine. Bring them to the table. We all wanna meet them. Like, it was, we're gonna pray for missionaries and learn about some missionaries, and then we're gonna give to some missionaries out of our allowance.
Speaker 3:We're gonna if there's conflict that we all know happened in the morning, we all know. Tonight at the table, we're gonna talk through it. And, I just know if you got to witness that, it doesn't have to be perfect like that, but some of the most powerful, memorable moments I had with people who discipled me were not when they were on stage. Though I've been discipled by some amazing leaders that were on stage at big stages, it was at tables, with the people close to them, with their family. And so I really it's helped me take the weight off, and I hopefully helps you, who think about being unqualified or not having this big glorious life.
Speaker 3:Because when I hear a rate or sort, like, Doctor. Tony Evans, they actually was a table. I'm like, well, luckily we all have one of those. And, that's a pretty cool place to start if you feel like you don't have anything to offer. Man.
Speaker 3:And I
Speaker 2:think that's so powerful because like, I think the table signifies so much, like whenever you have a spot at the table, you belong. Right. Whenever you have a spot at the table, like you have that person's undivided attention, you're in a safe place. You're a part of a family. And like, especially for a kid who grows up, you know, maybe they'd never experienced what it means to, be a part of like a healthy family, you know, like part of my story, man, is like, I didn't sit down and have a, like what you would think of when you think of like, Like a family dinner until I was in my mid twenties.
Speaker 2:And I sat down with this guy. And I was like, woah, like, what is this? Like, they're all talking to each other. They're all asking questions. They're all learning.
Speaker 2:Like it's deep conversation. Like they're sitting there after they're done eating and still talking. And it was just like such a foreign concept to me who was so attractive. So I was like, man, I don't know what they have, but I want it. And so, yeah.
Speaker 2:Super cool, man. Also makes me think of that like second Samuel nine, I think it is where like David invites Mephibosheth, who is the son of our man, mister Jonathan, and said, you have a spot at my table, and it, like, further formed his life.
Speaker 3:But Yeah. There's a line that I I recently heard that I found to also resonate with others, so I've been quoting it. I heard it from Cara Powell who was quoting another pastor she was talking to who, I guess, this pastor said, warm is the new cool. And I really like that phrase. That's like something you could put on a t shirt because the idea of being unqualified usually when it comes to next gen because, older generations feel like, where are we being discarded now?
Speaker 3:Like, are we obsolete? Are we not important anymore? They always talk about the next gen, and they're so cool. They dress different. Their music is different.
Speaker 3:Their technology, there's they know it so much more. You just feel like I'm not I don't know if I can relevant to the next generation. I don't know if I'm really that cool. And just the idea of, like, no. You don't need to be cool.
Speaker 3:Can you just be warm? Like, just be a warm face, like, a a friendly face, a a a good neighbor, like, a a hospitable person because that, they don't get a lot of like, everyone's trying to be cool online. We all even know it's fake. Like, everyone's putting on the social media, the unspoken rule is show the best and then just hide the rest. And so to be warm is man, that's a superpower in today's culture right now.
Speaker 3:And and older people actually tend to be warmer, generally. There are the people that just critique and hate on the next generation, so don't do that. That's a perfect place to start, but, man, be warm. Last thing I found is is is, there's a pastor in Denver, Narup, Alphonse, who said, hospitality is where the great commission and the great commandment come together. It's kinda like we're hosting you in an evangelistic way, but not in a on a soapbox in on the street corner, but, like, in our home, in one of the most welcoming ways.
Speaker 3:And you think about Jesus, there's so much of, like, the key is he could've shared the gospel right there. He's Jews. Like, no. I'm I wanna go to your house your house. And I always think, man, Jesus was one of the most hospitable people, and that bro didn't even own a home.
Speaker 3:And so if you think, oh, I don't know. My house isn't great. My apartment, I don't own much. It's like, Jesus didn't even have a house that he was hospitable. He was, like, hospitable at other people's homes.
Speaker 3:And so, how often he went over. And I've really tried to add hospitality to my evangelism, approach and discipleship approach because being warm truly is like the new cool right now.
Speaker 2:I thought so, man. That's a great story. Okay. So we talked about excuses that keep people from mentoring. We talked about time, which we talked about qualified.
Speaker 2:Give us those last two.
Speaker 3:Yeah. The last two was, I don't have time. I don't feel qualified. No one ever discipled me is the third reason most people say, they're not discipling someone, and then fourth, they'll say, I don't know how, which usually follows it. It's like, hey.
Speaker 3:I, no one ever poured into me. So before, I don't know how, how would I know how to give what I never received? And that's where, yeah, that's where I try to, I have kind of a, a framework of, four stages of discipleship, which is being a learner and then being a leader, then being a disciple maker, and then being a multiplier. To me, I try to say, hey, we'll gauge where you are. Many of us are learners, but what if we were to move towards being a a leader in the sense that a learner to me is it's like if someone if you've never committed to a relationship or into someone else, I believe you're still a learner.
Speaker 3:And I do believe there's a lot of Christians in the church who technically lead things, or manage things, but they've never committed to a relationship with someone younger than they. And so I do think we need to go not by the world standards of leadership, but Jesus' standards of leadership, and he called us to go and make disciples. And so, if you've never made that commitment, I'd consider that person still a learner. It's not bad. There's way worse things to be.
Speaker 3:It's like, okay, when are we gonna let that not terminate on ourselves and also funnel it to somebody else? Once you make that commitment to someone younger in the faith, when I'm talking to someone who's like, I don't know how, then I'm like, that's when you become a leader. John Maxwell, has this quote that's helpful when people are like, wait, I am a leader. Like I'm in charge of this. I literally have a title of like lead this or director this, or people report to me.
Speaker 3:And, I would, John Maxwell's quote is you may think you're a leader, but if no one's following you, then you're technically just taking a walk and taking a walk is a healthy habit. So it's not even bad. I'm just saying, if if you don't have anyone following you, you're not leading someone. You might be in charge. You might be a manager, you might be the director and that's all those things are good things.
Speaker 3:I just wouldn't say it's leading, someone who's following you. Then after learner leader is, disciple maker, I believe I call that a disciple maker because I believe once you disciple someone who disciples someone, that's when you become a disciple maker. And, and, that's really fun when you get to pour into someone who's also pouring to someone else. One of the best ways to receive, things things with such intentionality is when you know, you're receiving it, not just for you, but for others. The man who first discipled me two weeks into being saved, he didn't just say, I'll pour into you and I'll take you under my wing.
Speaker 3:He actually gave me a challenge. Like it was, it hinged on something, is he said, if I'm gonna pour into you, you have to go and reach your school in Christ. Like, the next two years, you gotta be the biggest light they've ever seen. And it maybe it was I don't know. Maybe it was a mutual relationship where he's like, I'll I'm a youth pastor.
Speaker 3:I wanna reach your school, but I will pour into you. And the more you, respond to that and you reach your school, the language I've liked that I've heard from some mentors is I'll match your energy. And and I I brought a lot to the table, and he matched it. And it was amazing to see, like, dozens and hundreds of young people from my school come to that come to that church and many, come to Christ and many become close friends and find community. So that was when he was pouring into me, he was pouring into someone else and I was learning everyone's thing, not as like what's next.
Speaker 3:It was kind of like, man, I'm writing down notes because I'm thinking about who I'm trying to share this with and, and this way, I think a good weight that was on me. And then lastly, learner, leader, disciple maker, then multiplier. I'm sure, Zach, you know people like this, but we don't often see too many people like this where they have relationship after relationship, after relationship. There's people that have been poured into by the people they poured into that they don't even know. And they will not know them till heaven.
Speaker 3:To me, that's that's the scorecard. It's not the only scorecard, but it's something I I would hope to be added to everyone's scorecard as you get to heaven and you realize there's fruit, growing on other people's trees because of people you poured into that you never knew they then poured into other people, poured into other people. I mean, to me, I don't know how that's not what we would want to do when we see Jesus say, go and make disciples as his last words.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Man, everything that, you just said reminds me of the book. It's called the making of a disciple by Doctor. Keith Phillips.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:Ever read that one? No, I need to. Dude, it's, it's, it's kinda old. I think it's written in the nineteen eighties, but he talks about how you don't really know. And, you know, this is kind of a bold statement, but you don't really know if you've truly made a disciple until the person you invest into invest into someone else who invest into someone else.
Speaker 2:And I'm, man, that's a but the high I mean but, like, that is how generations change. Like, that is how all of the cycles break. And so, man, that's such a good word, Grant. Okay, man. We are coming to the end of our time here, but, any last words of wisdom that you have for someone trying to build a relationship with a mentee, with a kid?
Speaker 3:I, I like to sometimes say this as like a last word or encouragement is, I I just wanna acknowledge that discipleship is really, really hard. I'd rather just say that right up front than try to like there are times I want to remove every difficulty and be like, oh, it's easier than you think and almost like beg and, and, and, and market and persuade. It's like, I'm not a salesman for discipleship. I'm just echoing what Jesus told us. I think his last words should be our first priority.
Speaker 3:And I also just know it works. Like I know it works because Jesus said to do it. I know it works because Jesus chose to do it. And then I get the privilege to think to gather some of the most high capacity young leaders in America that are in their twenties and thirties, who are like business leaders, nonprofit leaders, speakers, authors. They're the unicorns.
Speaker 3:Like when everyone's talking about who's leaving the church in the next generation, I'm trying to find who's leading in the church in the next generation. And I'm just telling you, like, almost all of them have in their story, a common trait of someone older invested in them, spoke life into them, identified gifting in them, and then verbalized it, gave them opportunity to fan that gift into flame, in their teenage years or in their early twenties, almost every time. And so and I'm like, okay. Jesus did it. And we didn't even know what he was doing until he started doing it.
Speaker 3:Like, that to me is crazy. Like, God was on earth and we don't know what he was doing generally until he made disciples. We wouldn't even be here if Jesus didn't make disciples. Like Jesus could have done everything that he did, like heal people, walk on water, every single thing we know him to, like turn water into wine, even die, go to cross the thin list and give his righteousness for our sinfulness, all that. And I'm like, wow, it was crazy as he could have done all of it, but how much would it change us being here today if 12 people weren't with them the whole time he was doing all that?
Speaker 3:Because when Jesus left the 5,000, for the 12, to me, that really changed my scorecard. Like, I I reread the bible, challenged by kind of by, Jeff VanderStef, a great missionary, a missional leader who made me really look at the bible and say, I'm gonna reread the new testament and look at what does Jesus value that we don't really tend to value in the Christian world today. And what does he not value that we really, really value? And when I saw Jesus have 5,000 people coming from Dallas, I'm like, that's the win. When you can be a leader who can gather 5,000, man, that's especially out of nowhere, people like Time Magazine, that's when that's when you're gonna be on the cover of Outreach is when you can be that gather 5,000.
Speaker 3:And there's no way today, if a leader had 5,000, didn't have some type of follow-up plan, like today, we would be, like, 5,000 people came today. Y'all, next next week, like, let's launch this into a church. It's a you're trying to reach as many people as possible. This is the best place to start. You got 5,000 now, not just a measly 12, or at least do what we do at conferences.
Speaker 3:Like, all right, every year, this year, at this time, let's come back and bring more people. Let's see what God could do. It's not even bad. I just why did he not do that? Like, in our standard, what a missed opportunity.
Speaker 3:He left the 5,000 and continued to diapally as well. I just what a different, like, path to to getting the gospel out there and changing lives is, like, forming hearts instead of, gathering crowds. It's just very different than us today. And so, I would just say my encouragement is to think about this is the way to do it, and it works, not just back then, but today. And, maybe we it's something you haven't thought about or unfortunately many Christians never ask us, are you discipling someone?
Speaker 3:Who are you discipling? That's I feel like we have more accountability to Christians of like, who are you voting for? And who are you giving? Are you in a small group? All these things aren't bad questions.
Speaker 3:I'm just like, man, we asked and uphold people accountable to all these things, but not the great commission. And I like that to be added to the scorecard. And then the last last thing is if you feel like it's gonna be hard, it is. It'd be like, I feel like I get asked all the time basically for the silver bullet on discipleship. And I've started just saying, I'll give you the silver bullet on discipleship if you tell me the quick silver bullet on parenting.
Speaker 3:And I've never had a parent be able to tell me if you just do this one thing, parenting's gonna be easy. So I, I don't think me or Zach can give the silver bullet. It's one of those things you just gotta accept. It's hard work and it's worth so much. The impact is eternal.
Speaker 3:But it's gonna help us better if we count the cost to no. It is hard work. I actually think on the back end, it's super fun. It's super, life giving. I've seen so many older leaders that felt like their glory days were behind them, who then switched their mentality to discipleship.
Speaker 3:And all of a sudden, it's like a new win and a new wave of like, oh, I'm gonna I'm not done. I'm not passing the baton. I just got a whole new season. Instead of passing baton, they started playing pickleball with the young leader, and I like that analogy way better these days. And so, yeah, this is gonna be hard, and it was hard for Jesus.
Speaker 3:Even Jesus, one of my favorite verses that he said that you will never see on a coffee cup, You'll never see this verse on a t shirt. Red letters, Jesus said in Matthew, and I think it's fifteen fifteen. He said, oh, how long will I have to put up with you people? And when I saw Jesus say that, like, man, he said, oh, how long will I have to put up with you people, you twisted and perverse generation? And he was talking about the disciples.
Speaker 3:I'm like, okay, Zach, I'm not a parent, but I gotta assume that almost every parent, not out loud, though some have, but in their heart have prayed to God and thought, man, how long is this season gonna last? God, this one's gonna erupt. This is hard. Like and and that's what reality of developing people is like, that even Jesus led by the spirit is sinless, could say, man, how long am I gonna have to put up with this? And it just shows us, okay, this is a hard, laborious, worthwhile type of work that literally we're here because of the 12, not because of the 5,000.
Speaker 2:That's a good word, Grant. Thanks, buddy. Hey, man. If people wanna find out more about you, tell them how to do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. On my website is just my name, grantskeldon.com, and that's s k e l d o n. And then, for any type of speaking or consulting. And then also, I got a podcast called Next Up, where I interview different leaders and it's really practical conversations I try to have. So like, Lisa Bavier, I know is the next one.
Speaker 3:And I know the question is, what are the four ways that we can fight for women without falling into the feminist agenda? So I know that can be a bit controversial. And then after her is David Blatt and I asked him, what are four lessons we could learn from the global church that we're totally missing in our leadership today? And so like, what is he seeing that he's like, when he's overseas, he's like, man, this is what leadership, if Jesus was today, this is what it looked like. Not kind of how I kind of was sharing about today.
Speaker 3:This is what we think it is, but if we really looked at what Jesus did or we'd see missionaries overseas, because you don't, you don't get famous for being a Christian in a lot of other countries. You can here in here in America. And so, it's very, it was very revealing to hear him, but that's next up and on YouTube and on, on Spotify and Apple. But I think and then all my social media is just Grant Skelton, my name.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, man. Great. Thank you so much for your time, man. Thank you for your wisdom, for your stories, for all of your, Yamara's good. So, thanks a lot for tuning in to the You Can Mentor podcast, and, find us on social media, follow us, figure out the podcast, share it with your friends, and remember, you can mentor.
Speaker 1:Thanks for tuning in to the You Can Mentor podcast. Give us that five star rating and share this podcast with your mentoring friends. Learn more at youcanmentor.com. Thank you.