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What happens when life puts obstacles in your way that you just have to tackle? Turns out three Rugby League icons might be able to help.
Making it in elite sport, staring down the competition, overcoming challenges in the game and in life after rugby, Adrian Morley, Shaun Lunt, and Barrie McDermott know what it takes to keep moving forward. From the highs of big wins to the tough calls of retirement, Changing Rooms is about what happens when the final whistle blows — and how lessons from Rugby League translate into resilience, growth, and finding a new path.
The conversations are raw and no-filter — stories of comebacks, transitions, and big turning points that show what it really takes to adapt when everything changes. They’re perfect for young people facing life transitions from education to work, fans of sport seeking insight beyond the game, or anyone navigating career or personal change.
Join us as we swap stories from the pitch and beyond, and share the lessons, laughs, and honest truths that can help you figure out your own next move. Whether you’re looking for resilience strategies or just some inspiration from people who’ve been there, you’ll get insights that reach further than the game — from the Changing Rooms Squad.
About the Hosts
Adrian Morley
Adrian was never just tough — he was one of the most feared forwards in Rugby League, the first British player to win both NRL (National Rugby League) and Super League titles, and a leader who thrived in the biggest moments. After years at the very top, he knows what it means to push through pressure, face down setbacks, and then figure out who you are when the roar of the crowd fades.
Shaun Lunt
Shaun’s career had it all — Grand Final wins, England caps, and the highs and lows of playing for some of the biggest clubs in the game. But he’s also been brutally honest about injuries, mental health, and the personal battles that shaped him. Now, he brings that same openness to coaching and mentoring, offering lessons on resilience and reinvention that hit home well beyond sport.
Barrie McDermott
Barrie built his reputation as one of Rugby League’s fiercest enforcers, a no-nonsense presence for Leeds Rhinos and Great Britain. Since hanging up his boots, he’s carved out a second career in broadcasting, combining sharp analysis with the same humour and straight talk he was known for on the pitch. Barrie’s story is about toughness, loyalty, and how to evolve when one chapter ends and another begins.
Barrie McDermott:
Welcome to Changing Rooms brought to you by our good friends at Elect, where a few of us ex pros bring you stories from the pitch and beyond. I'm Barrie McDermott. I will be joined every week by Adrian Morley and Shaun Lunt, legends, mates, and proof that life after rugby is full of lessons, laughs, and the odd knock-on along the way. Together we talk about challenges, change, and what keeps us moving forward on the field, at work, and in life. So let's get stuck in. Welcome back to Changing Rooms, brought to you by our good friends at Elect. Adrian Morley, Shaun Lunt. Welcome back, lads. Did you enjoy the first one?
Shaun Lunt:
Certainly did, mate. It was awesome. Something new. A little bit nervous at first, but then as we got chatting, excited to flow and really enjoyed it. Thank you.
Adrian Morley:
I did, Buzz. Yeah, good chat. Enjoyed it. So we're here. Let's go again.
Barrie McDermott:
I thought we'd start with work... Because we're trying to correlate the difference and the similarities between our previous work environment and this work environment. Give us some of your thoughts and memories on your first job, Moz.
Adrian Morley:
Well, I didn't sign at a school as a lot of the professionals do. So I had another year at amateur, under 17. So in my family in the north of England, it was big to get an apprenticeship at the time. My eldest brother was apprentice electrician. My middle brother was an apprentice joiner. So I joined them ranks. I was an apprentice electrician, so it was tough. I couldn't drive at the time, just leaving school. So I was a 16-year-old, but I was working in Liverpool at the time. So I had to get up at six o'clock, walk to Eccles, which is about two miles. Get picked up, get took to Liverpool, work, get dropped off at Eccles, walk back. So I was leaving the house at 6:00, getting in about 6:00 for one pound 52 an hour. But didn't think anything of it. And even at the time, I had a 50 quid in my pocket at the end of the week and some of my mates who were at college didn't have that luxury, but that's just what you did at the time.
Barrie McDermott:
Lunty, what were your first work?
Shaun Lunt:
Oh, my first job was actually working in a warehouse at Argos. So when I was at Castleford, I was full-time, but I was only getting 8,000 pound a year. So I had to work of an evening. And I was 17 at the time, so I couldn't work in the main warehouse because I wasn't old enough, not classed as an adult. So they put me in the jewelry section with all the women packing. And there was some older women from Castleford, so you know where I'm going with this. I was a young lad, a young strapping rugby league player. And every time I walked to the toilet, then saw a woman, she used to test me all the time and say, "Oh, the things I'd do to you." So the next six months I spent in toilets.
Barrie McDermott:
So let's get into the main topic for discussion today. Not everybody gets to call professional sport their job, but as we know, we're lucky. It's a pleasure, it's a privilege, but it's a challenge. It's not all it's cracked up to be. So what do you remember about your first day in a team environment?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, so I signed on my 17th birthday in May, but then waited that season out, so I started in September. That was the old seasons when it's winter rugby league.
Barrie McDermott:
Who was in that changing rooms? Some big names in that changing room.
Adrian Morley:
There were some big names. However, as a young academy/A-teamer, you didn't go in the first team change rooms. That was the rule. The first team changing room was the first teamers and fringe players. Then they had another changing rooms for the A-team. Then they had another changing room for the academy. So coming from an apprenticeship background, it was similar in a working environment. You'd go in as an apprentice. You wouldn't dream of talking to these senior electricians the way you would your mates. You've got to earn your stripes and go up the ladder, even though I was bigger than all of them and you just didn't do that. And certainly I would never do that in the professional environment. So I got there and Leeds had the likes of Ellery Hanley and Garry Schofield, these absolute superstars. But I didn't say boot to a goose, but it was very daunting them first few training sessions, but also very exciting.
Barrie McDermott:
Lunty, you and I are similar in that respect. I signed for Oldham and you signed for Workington. I joined a changing room with 28, 29, 30-year-old blokes who'd been demoted from the first division as it was then. They were in the second division. I wasn't put in the academy changing rooms. There was six of us signed at the same time. Five of my mates went in the academy or A-team dressing room. I was straight in the first team. I didn't have a clue what I was doing, but the coach, Peter Tunks was like, "You're playing in the first team." True to his word, I played in the first day, but I was sat in the corner, didn't have a clue what I was doing.
Back in the old days, the coach used to rub you down. So he'd be talking to you and giving you little tidbits of advice while he's rubbing and trying to rip the skin off your bones. So in that first couple of training sessions, I just sat there really quiet in awe of what was going on with these people who I'd watched on the terraces, but thinking to myself, "I don't want to say a word out of place." Even though I was the same, I was probably as big as everyone else, but in my character, I wasn't formed yet. What about you walking into Workington?
Shaun Lunt:
So when I went to work and it was, obviously they were a part-time club and they were in the second division and walking in there, it was really totally different for me because I'd been at Castleford, so I had that professional mentality. And then I'd gone in and then you've got all these ex full-time professionals that have dropped down the league that are coming for a payday and they just don't care. They're talking about being on the drink at the weekend, doing this, doing that. And I'm just sat there and I'm like, "What am I doing with my life in here? Is this going to be me for the next 20 years?" But moving on from that, obviously I was lucky enough. And then I started talking about my career when it kicked off at Huddersfield, when I kicked on and went full-time professional and I was 21 at the time.
So there was Kev Brown, there was Luke Robinson, Steven Wild. You had all these Great Britain internationals. And I'd actually met Kev probably about two week prior, then going in because he came in early for training, so I sort of knew Kev. So obviously when you're walking into changing rooms, you want to sit with your mate, don't you? And you feel comfortable there. So I'm walking around with Kev like a little lapdog. Because I was one of the youngest there, I can always remember our first, we had a friendly against Castleford at Castleford, and that was a real challenge, challenging me as a man. And so Kev goes, "Come on, well get on the bus and you can sit next to me. " And you know Kev really well, Kev Brown, and he's a rum bugger and he knew fine and well he was stitching me up.
So he sat me down and I'm sat in Steven Wild's seat. So we sat there normal. Looking back now, you can see everyone's waiting for this to happen and all that. So Wild just comes to me and he goes, "You're in my seat." And it couldn't have been anyone more miserable than him to be sat in his seat. So I'm sat there and he said, "Move." I said, "No." And I was like, "Oh no, he's not backing down. I'm not backing down here." So he goes, "Right then." So this happened, continuing for about five minutes. Then the bus was about to set off and he goes, "I'm just going to stand here and I'm going to prod you and annoy you." And it was one of my first games for the club. So what I did do, I was, "Okay then, Wildy, I'll give you your seat back." But I got a bottle of water. I opened it and poured it all over the seat and went, "Go and then sit down," and I just went and sat at the back.
Barrie McDermott:
You got a hard time when you went into that elite environment.
Adrian Morley:
No, no, they were all great really. I mean, in the first year I was there at Leeds, I played half year in the Academy. I only played about six A-team games and then got an opportunity to play first team, but they were all fantastic. I ended up living with Neil Harmon actually who-
Barrie McDermott:
Would you say he was the one that took you under his wing? He's talking about Kev Brown.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, I think so. There was another lad, Phil Hassan, who was a little bit older than me, but he was mainly A-team at the time, but because he was from Lancashire, we used to travel together. So Phil Hassan was fantastic. Neil Harmon was great. And I did play three first team games in my first season. And then they got me in and said, "We know you're an apprentice electrician, but we'd like to bring you in so you can train during the day full-time." And they said, "What do you earn?" I said, 80 quid a week. They said, "We'll match it." Wait until I come out the office I'm like, "Why didn't I say it was on 250?" But my dad said, "You don't get in trouble for telling the truth, Adrian." So then I was full-time.
Barrie McDermott:
Should have followed that advice really.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, should have. Yeah. But then I was full-time, but that was just pre-Super League. So '96, that's when Super League and the money was in and then I signed a better deal for Super League era.
Barrie McDermott:
It's funny you were talking before about, because Oldham was my first club, then Wigan was my first big club and then I came here. But Oldham was a real adjustment for me because it was in my town, it was familiar. So Waterhead, my amateur club, Oldham back to back, so I was familiar with everything except the people. So my first game debut, we played Sheffield away, got back to the local place where we all used to go. It's called Emory Africa, it's a great night out. And I'm drifting across the other side of the room to speak to my mates. And I get a tug on my shirt and it's Paul Ryan, big Paul Ryan and Charlie McAlister.
They were thick as thieves. And he said, "Where are you going?" "I'm just going see my mates." And he said, "No, no, we're your mates now. You need to stay with us." And I was like, "Right, all right then." Obviously what you do is you end up bringing your mates into that big group, the ones that you trust anyway. We know a few of yours that you've only had a few times, but in the main, the lads that you brought were good lads and they actually contributed to the group, didn't they? But was it overwhelming for either of you when you went into that environment? Did you feel like you had to prove yourself?
Shaun Lunt:
I certainly did. Like I say, I came into Huddersfield and they'd signed Scott Moore as nine. They'd signed Keal Carlisle as a nine and David Faiumu was nine. And I did get told as well, if I hadn't signed when I did, they wouldn't have signed me because when I signed, someone else wanted to sign me. So I was like, "Oh, that's great to know that if you don't want me here, then I'm just here and I'm just-"
Barrie McDermott:
Was that fuel for you?
Shaun Lunt:
Yes, it was. That just made me train even harder. And I was the fittest at training. So I'd come from work in town and that was, again, talking about our drives. I was just a hard worker. Nothing beats hard work. I made sure I was the fittest. And I can remember doing drills and the bumper at the time was the conditioning was like, "We're doing 10 back, 20 back, 30 back, 40 back." And the bumper came home and said, "Oh, every set you had someone different at the time." And I was at the front all the time and that's what I prided my game on.
I wasn't the best player, but if I was here at minute one of a game, at minute eight I was still there where people start there and come down. So that gave me that fuel to say... And I was a stubborn little guy. And again, I didn't let it show at the time that it affected me. And come the end of that season, I was the number one choice nine, knocking on England's door and starting the challenge come final. So yeah, from that first initial six weeks of where I had to drown someone's seat to show me that I wasn't going to back down and that great determination, it got me through to being number one hooker.
Barrie McDermott:
Moz, many people will know this about you, but I'm just going to state on record. You was the fittest forward I ever played with. It didn't matter whether you'd been to bed at eight o'clock at night or six o'clock in the morning you'd just got in from the night before, you were always at the front. You were an incredible athlete with a lot of natural gifts, but a willing mentality to be at the front. And I'm just going to, just to show up and pour out. I remembered when you were talking there, my first training session on the same thing, young kid, fit, thinking, "Right, that's it. I'm loving it." And again, round you, get behind me with no prizes in training. I probably took that a bit too far into my career, actually because I never won anything after that. But you were always at the front and you had, I think you always wanted to make a statement to the people around you. You can always count on me.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah. Well, I mentioned in the last episode, I realized what my strengths were early on, being big, strong, aggressive, and fit. So I challenge anyone to say they trained harder than me. If you can be as fit as you can be, it'll see you in good stead. And there's a lot of pretty average players who are very, very fit and they've made a good career out of it, haven't they?
Barrie McDermott:
I think it's probably one other thing, yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
But it is the winning.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I think-
Shaun Lunt:
It's will and desire.
Barrie McDermott:
It's a character attribute and it could be classed as a skill because we undervalue will and desire. We put a good kicking game or a good tackle technique or whatever it is that's in your little kit bag when you become a Ruby League player. We'll talk about Rugby League in a minute. We'll maybe touch on the working environment and what bets you carried across. But that will and that understanding that, I might not get there today, but I'm going to try my best today and I'm going to try and get there tomorrow and that continuation, and not getting disarmed if you don't get there. So I just want to ask about the beginning, because it's really important when people listen to this, they understand there's some insecurities, you don't know what you have to offer. You've obviously been told by somebody that you're good enough to be in the environment. And then you do have the senior pro saying to you, "Hey, listen, get behind me." Were there any rituals, anybody that took you to one side and said, "You need to understand how this works?"
Adrian Morley:
There was no rituals. Everyone was dead welcoming, dead helpful. And when you see your heroes on TV, you don't know what they're going to be like, but they're all absolutely fantastic. Rugby League is such a leveler and when you do make the first team, you're one of them basically. But I did suffer from, I think they call it imposter syndrome. So I was 17 when I made my debut out here on Good Friday in '95. I played a couple of games, but then we had a break and then it was the centenary shortened season. So I'd just turned 18 and then I was first team. And then I was thinking, "I'm going to get found out here. I shouldn't be here."
But I was getting good feedback from my coaches, from my family and my mates, "You're playing all right." It went until I played about probably a dozen games and that's when the penny dropped thinking, "I deserve to be here. I should be here. This is my level." And since making that decision in my head, my performance has improved dramatically. From not being confident to suddenly, I should be here and then representing my country a year later, that was how big a turning point it was and then it was playing sailing after that. But initially it wasn't as easy as you'd think.
Barrie McDermott:
It's a good point in that, Lunty, because what you do is you walk into an environment, you think, "Right, I'm going to have to do what they do. Otherwise, I'm out on my own and I'm going to have no mates and nobody's going to like me and I'm going to struggle to get in this team." But at some point you think, "Right, I've got all that, but this is what I bring to the table." Is there a point where you thought either at Workington or at Huddersfield, "Right, I'm going to change who I am? No, not change who I am, but I'm going to change what these people think I am and just push my standards a little bit, a bit more true to myself?"
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah. So when I first went to Workington, they actually give, well, probably about six month into the season, I was a skipper at the time, he had a season ending injury, so I was 18 and they made me captain. So I thought brilliant, that was great. But then what I did do was probably the worst thing that could ever happen to me because I thought I had to be a captain right away, but all the older lads that got jealous and it was this 18 year old lad coming in and telling me what to do, so then I got it stripped from me. So that was a big knock in my confidence. So when I was at Leeds in the 2012 season, I'd learned so much. I learned so much about myself and I learned just how a team environment should be. And it was one of the first times I ever felt comfortable in my own skin in a rugby team because again, what a lot of people don't see in rugby as well, it's a very volatile changing rooms.
I've always said, "If you go into the changing rooms and you're feeling a bit shitty or not very good or if you had an argument with the miss and you're feeling, you go in there and you try and find someone that's not feeling too good themselves and you deflect everything on them so you get away because the banter is nonstop all the time." So then I came to Leeds and I was just like, the vicious banter wasn't there. It was all about coming in and getting the job done. And then obviously we won the grand final. I loved it. I didn't want to go back. I agreed to a three-year deal at Leeds at the time, but I had to go back to Huddersfield and I said to Bolu, I said, "I'm not coming back to Huddersfield to do the same as what I was doing before."
I said, "I've just left the best club in England at the time to come back here. I want my career to thrive." And I can always remember something happened with a certain player who was one of our senior players that happened at training and I went up to the coaching staff, me, Robert and Grixey and said we're not standing for that, that needs to stop. And I probably wouldn't have done that. And I've been at Leeds and learned how a true sports person should be and call people out. I had the confidence to go back and that year, I'm not saying this is why we won it that year, but that year we went on and won the league leader shield at Huddersfield. But yeah, definitely at least just the mentors of Kev Sinfield, Jamie Peacock. Again, going back on Kev, I was very lucky to travel with Kev. You traveled with Kev yourself, didn't you?
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah, for a number of years. Taught him absolutely everything he knows, even the marathon running.
Shaun Lunt:
So yeah, so I traveled with Kev and every day I was just picking his brains and whatnot. And again, really well with Kev. Yeah, just learned so much from him. And what I've always tried to do is just pick little traits off people. I don't want to be Kev. Kev's already Kev, but take a little good bit from him-
Barrie McDermott:
Learn from him.
Shaun Lunt:
... a little bit good from him and try and mold him into myself.
Barrie McDermott:
And it's corporate speaking it. You've got to know what good looks like. If you don't know what good looks like, then you'll just keep doing the same things, ending up getting maybe the same result, maybe a different result by pure accident. Moz, you've been a captain. And I'll tell you now, when I met you at 17, 18 years of age, I would've never said that you would've developed into somebody that had leadership qualities. At what point, and it's the same question, but phrased slightly differently. At what point did you stop becoming somebody who was just turning up and following everybody else, to somebody who said, "Right, this is what we're going to do?"
Adrian Morley:
Probably when I went to Warrington, that's when Paul Cullen asked me to captain Warrington. But again, I was reluctant. I've always loved training, loved playing, but the responsibility I wasn't over the moon about, but at this point in my life, I was a dad. I'd been an international for more than 10 years, I'd played in Australia, so I did have the experience and that's when I thought about it. And the more I thought about it, the more I thought I'm ready for this. But then I thought, I don't want to be a captain and all the silly decisions off the pitch, all the silly decisions on the pitch, getting sent off, getting suspended, et cetera. So I did change the way I played after that. And proud to say I never got sent off for the rest of my career, and it wasn't something I took too straight away. As with everything, it takes a bit of time. And after that, I felt great doing that role and got a chance to captain England, captain Great Britain was unbelievable.
Barrie McDermott:
Well Lunty, we talked, your previous answer was about going back to Huddersfield and saying, "Right, listen, I think this is what we do." At what point and what do you think happened prior to going back to Huddersfield that you thought, "I'm confident enough to step forward?" Was it literally that you'd seen and you experienced it and you wanted to pass it on?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, definitely. Like I said, I came into probably one of the best team environments that's been in team sport for a long time. When I went back, I had to sit down with Bolu and he said that, "You're a senior player now." So you could say that I left a boy and came back a man as a rugby player and carried that burden. And again, I felt more... It's weird because again, when Moz talks about that imposter syndrome, I went back and I felt like more people respected me. I'd earned it, I'd gone away, I'd become a champion and I'd come back and people actually listen to what I said.
Barrie McDermott:
It was actually outside influences rather than some conscious decision you'd made, it was outside influences.
Shaun Lunt:
And that has been a biggest, my downfall that in my playing days is outside influence. So a lot of people say, like I said, I was very fortunate to play for England for one time and everyone used to say to me, "Why did you only play once?" Because I played, if you think about it, I played against Australia at Australia, if you could say that you want to make one game ever, you'd want to be against Australia, wouldn't it? And I used to always say that wasn't good enough, but it wasn't that I wasn't good enough, I wasn't emotionally strong enough to take the setback.
So when I got dropped from the team, again, I let all the outside noise, outside influences, rather than focusing on the inside and what I can do to get better. And so for me, that was the biggest thing, that imposter. I'm not good enough, I'm not this, I'm not that, I shouldn't be there, I shouldn't be this. And then like I said, when I got older and started realizing that it is inside, block out the noise and then that's when I started to really, really kick on.
Barrie McDermott:
And it is a process. And I know we're talking about rugby league, but it's true to life. You go into any new job, new skill, new environment, you have to understand what's required of you, then you can start to drip feed your personality and then eventually can start to lead. So Lunty said it was a circumstance out of his control. He's gone to Leeds, his come back. At that point, he realizes he's got more to offer than just as a follower. Was there a game? Was there a moment? Was there a season that you thought, "That's it now. I'm above everybody else." Not so much above, but I'm capable of giving information that everyone will accept?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, probably '09. So the second year I was kept in Warrington, but the way Paul Cullen said, I said, "Oh, I don't feel I'm captain material." But he said, "You've been a leader whether you knew it or not, what you do in training, what you're doing games, that's great leadership." And the more I thought about it, the more it made sense. But probably two years of actually being in the job, that's when I felt really confident. We had a great year in '09. We ended up winning the Challenge Cup.
Shaun Lunt:
You did.
Adrian Morley:
Can't remember who it was against, but we won the Challenge Cup.
Shaun Lunt:
I had front row seats though, [inaudible 00:22:07].
Adrian Morley:
I think you gave it away when you were in. Yeah. But that year I got shortlisted for the Man of Steel as well. And I felt I was doing my role well. Obviously the team was doing well. That was probably when I said, "Right, this is for me now."
Barrie McDermott:
Do you see anything that you've gone through in that early part of your professional Rugby League career, whether it's as a semi-pro, as we were, all of us at some point, or coming into a full-time environment? Do you see any similarities between that first day of work for anybody that's watching this and has a little bit of anxiety about first day at work, new professional?
Adrian Morley:
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I've spoke about how nervous I was, how daunting it was, but also how excited I was. When you start a new job, you start a new club, it is very exciting. You meet new people, new skill sets, that kind of thing. So I mentioned going at it with a bit of enthusiasm and just enjoy it. You might feel uncomfortable, but any situation is enjoyable. And then if you put your heart into it, I'm sure you'll settle in and enjoy the experience.
Barrie McDermott:
The sentiment of wanting to prove yourself, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just how you go about doing it, isn't it?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, 100%. Again, you mentioned on taking criticism. I used to take criticism early in the days and I used to need to go home and start crying or you don't like me or anything like that. Do you know what I mean? If anyone used to say anything bad, it used to really affect me. But it's just criticism. It's just someone saying, "You've done that wrong. It's okay. Now can you try this bit?" You got to be thicker skinned, I should say. And that's a term that's falling around.
Barrie McDermott:
And I think we are in general as ex sportsman, we've got thick skin. My skin is as thick as a rhino. I do not care if I get it wrong. I'll just keep going. I'll just keep going, just keep turning up. And the more experiences I've got behind me, i.e. failures, the better I'll be, because at some point I'm going to get it right.
Adrian Morley:
Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
I'm hoping that day will come soon, Moz. So I thought it'd be interesting to talk about some legendary lineups, some dream teams and dynasties. I'm a bit older than you two. So I still remember the dominant team of the '80s and '90s that we're going to have. I think they won eight challenge cups back to back. Shaun Edwards, who was a maverick as a player. They had a pack of forwards that could beat up anybody. Mike the fire came at the back end and they just almost beat people psychologically before they got on the field. So I'll start with you, Lunty. You've got the whole of the '80s, '90s and now to pick from, which team stood out to you and why?
Shaun Lunt:
So there's a couple that stood out and obviously it was the Bradford side in the early 2000s. I wasn't playing professionally then. I was still a young kid. I was in the early teens and just seeing that team, it was just absolute ferocious to know the size, from Shontayne Hape on one wing and then you've got Nathan McAvoy on the other wing. There was only three people that were smaller and they were probably always six foot with Deacon, Robbie Paul and James Lowe. So that team was formidable, that pack. And obviously you played against that. That was your main era as well as playing on it. And I can always remember I was at Castleford and it would have been in around about 2006. And I played a curtain raise before you guys played at Odsal. And there's 26,000 people there.
Barrie McDermott:
What a place Odsal was, by the way.
Shaun Lunt:
I know. Yeah, that ball. So we had actually played right before you guys played and we had a late-ish kickoff. So by the time we just finished, you guys were ready for warming up. So there was probably about 10,000 people in there at the time.
Barrie McDermott:
To watch the warmup, yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
And then we watched the game, there's 26,000 there. And obviously you guys, there was no love lost between yous knocking lumps out of each other. But for me, when I played, it was the 2010 wig inside that really stands out to me, that the '10 and '11 season they had under Michael McGuire. Played against him the year before, the last game of the season, and we beat them very comfortably at Huddersfield. And then obviously Madge came in that year and obviously he's taken the Broncos to the final this year. And there's a lot said about his beliefs and how he trains them. He trains them really hard. He makes everything tough. And I do believe in all that tough stuff, not the pretty stuff where people go and summer training camps, they'll go to Tenerife or they'll go to Spain where that year, I believe he took them into a army camp and none of them had sleeping bags and they had no sleep for days and stuff there that just makes you tough, genuinely tough.
I do think that again, in this work year, everything's too easy, nothing gets really down nitty-gritty. And I think that team, when they came out in 2010, they absolutely battered everyone. And as A-team, they were all connected. There was no individual. Sean O'Loughlin came into his own. He was unbelievable. They had Amos Roberts at the back. They had Mickey Mackin and how ferocious he was. So they had Sam Tomkins coming into it when he was younger. They had Joel Tomkins and they were just relentless. They were literally relentless. And that year, I believe they won the Challenge Cup and then the Grand Final, it was the opposite way around. So that as a team for me, I really admired that team. Hated playing against them. Hated playing against them. You always knew that. And we had some great games, some big brawls, but the respect that I've got for that team, that 2010, 2011 team, it was special that team.
Barrie McDermott:
You would've played against them and all, wouldn't you Moz?
Adrian Morley:
Yes, I did. Yeah. It was fantastic. There's a big rivalry with Warrington Wigan anyway. And every game, whether it was at Wigan or Warrington was full-blooded. And that's what you want to do when you play Rugby League. You want to be competitive, you want to be physical, and that's exactly what you got from Wigan.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned the Leeds Bradford stuff because that is a bitter rivalry. And if you're a Leeds player, you would never dream of socializing or being involved with anybody from Bradford, or even just getting your head around, going anywhere near a Bradford player or team, or God forbid you'd go and sign for them, would you Moz?
Adrian Morley:
Well, I used to live with Neil Harmon, he was a Bradford player as well.
Barrie McDermott:
Really?
Adrian Morley:
I did.
Barrie McDermott:
Really? I'm just going to make a note here. Judas. Judas, right. Okay.
Adrian Morley:
Well, I was a gun for hire at the time, Barrie.
Barrie McDermott:
Three pieces of silver and all that.
Adrian Morley:
Exactly. And Bradford-
Barrie McDermott:
Well, what were you going to say Lunty.
Shaun Lunt:
Just saying, obviously when I talked about that Bradford side, what was it like going up against them?
Barrie McDermott:
Brilliant. Brilliant. I loved it. And again, embracing the challenge of, they called them the awesome foursomes.
Shaun Lunt:
Yes, they did. Yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
There was Paul Anderson. There was Fielding. Stewart, Brian McDermott, and there was the Aussie back rower, was it called Doniger? Joe Vagana was the biggest of them all. He was like tackling a car weren't he, was literally the size of your wingspan. But yeah, just I loved it. I loved it. My favorite game of all time is a game at a semifinal. You'd have played in it, Moz, '99 in Huddersfield and they beat us in two-
Adrian Morley:
Two previous, yeah.
Barrie McDermott:
... semifinals. And that was the third one. And it was a brilliant day, brilliant game. Best night out ever, best stories ever that I would have to take to my death, for fear of being locked up. But yeah, just a brilliant experience around that period of time. And again, really pleased and proud. I never played for Moss. However, I hope you enjoyed spending your 30 pieces of silver.
Adrian Morley:
I did. I did. I've got the ring to prove it.
Barrie McDermott:
God bless Andy Lynch. Anyway, let's go onto your legendary lineups, Moz. What do you look at?
Adrian Morley:
Well, when I first started taking rugby league seriously. I just went to high school. I only started playing at 11, but then was obviously interested in Great Britain at the time. And 1990s stands out massively in my mind. That's the closest we come to winning back the Ashes since we won it in 1970. So The test series was over in England. We won the first test at Wembley and the second one, we got robbed.
Barrie McDermott:
Who do we blame for that?
Adrian Morley:
Well, we blame Lee Jackson, obviously.
Barrie McDermott:
We played with Jacko and every training, he'd be like, "Listen, if you want to talk that dummy off Ricky Stewart, we'd have had the ashes." Good luck, Jacko.
Adrian Morley:
He's a great guy.
Barrie McDermott:
Great team though.
Adrian Morley:
Fantastic. Ellery Hanley, who's my hero, he was probably the greatest.
Barrie McDermott:
Two of the best players in the world in that team at that time, Garry Schofield and Ellery Hanley.
Adrian Morley:
One of my claims to fame is on my debut I got to play with Ellery Hanley. I only played with him once, but not many kids can say they played with their idols. Garry Schofield, fantastic player. But yeah, that test series really ignited something in me. Great Britain was the be all and end all that after that. But from a playing perspective, I've got to say the team, mid Warrington team 2011. So I got my captain in '08. We'd won the Challenge Cup a couple of times, but in 2011, I just felt we was on another level.
Barrie McDermott:
Your squad had Lee Briers, were the Monahans there at that time?
Shaun Lunt:
Bridge had a great had a great year [inaudible 00:31:16].
Barrie McDermott:
Bridge was great.
Adrian Morley:
[inaudible 00:31:17] Carver was on fire. He was my sidekick and he was fantastic. We had a little in house competition. It's great that you've got the same goal, but he'd come up to me, "I got 18 meters this week. What do you get? " And he was competitive, even though we were best mates. But Benny Westwood was on fire, Paul Warden and there was a great competition for places. We had a bit of luck with injury because unfortunately that's part and parcel of the sport. We had a bit of luck with injury, but every game, we'd go into every game confident.
I don't know how many games we'd lost, but it wasn't a great deal. And even the games against the tough lads, the big boys, we'd schooled him. Really went to town on them. And I'd never felt as confident at the end of the year. And even though league leader shield, in the olden days, that's your crown champions, aren't you? You're the best team in the comp, but that's not like that anymore. And it was a bit of an anti-climax, but I still say that was the best domestic team I played with.
Barrie McDermott:
It would be wrong if I didn't mention the Rhinos of 2004 through to, I'd say 2015. I know they won it in 2017. They've won it eight times the Rhinos, but over what they call the golden generation that was Sinfield, who was a master tactician and evolved his game. McGuire, who started off as a support player, but again, became a game manager and steer a team. Rob Burrow who could change any other game. Jamie Jones-Buchanan, who was the grit and steel of the team and he chucked Ryan Bailey and Jamie Peacock was there as well. So over that period of time, Leeds had a number of people that came in and out of it.
And I've heard Jamie Jones-Buchanan who's going to be the chief executive of Leeds Rhinos now. I've heard him describe it like this. They talk about the golden generation being five players. There was approximately 150 players that came in and out of the system during that period of time. And they all added something different. So the Rhinos winning all those finals over a short period of time, 11 years. What is it that makes those great teams great, Moz? What goes into a great side?
Adrian Morley:
Well, I think success breeds success. When you've had a taste of it, you want more and more, so that's the great incentive. But in terms of getting it right the first time, you need a strong coach, strong leader, and strong work ethic, and obviously talent as well. So if you add all them ingredients together, theoretically, you've got the blueprint of a successful team, but you've got to work hard from day one and you've got to have a clear goal and you've got to execute that goal.
Barrie McDermott:
Lunty, what do you think are the key components of a successful team?
Shaun Lunt:
So I was very fortunate to be a part of that golden generation. I spent a short time there and I seen firsthand what I believe was, and that was the leaders led. I traveled in with Kevin. We were the first ones in. I was only the first one in because I traveled in with Kevin [inaudible 00:34:04]. He was the first one there in the training pitch. He was the first one out doing kicking. He was the last one out there, the Kirkstall. Had JP, he was monumental in lead. And he wouldn't tell you to go do something, he'd be doing it before you, and then he'd drag you. So for me, them top teams led by examples. You look at Rob, so small in stature, but could literally... Them grand finals, in my eyes, that was one of the greatest grand finals.
Barrie McDermott:
2011, that try.
Shaun Lunt:
I still watch that and get goosebumps. You got Macks, when people talked, you had Kylie. Kylie Leuluai, I think he doesn't get the raps that he deserves. The way he used to just hit you, and you get back in your defensive line, you'd look, you'd have JP, you'd have Kylie ready to go again. Nobody told anyone what to do. They just went and done it and everyone followed. And again, that went right up to Brian Mack as well. All the coaching staff. Everyone just were on the same page doing the same thing. A good, strong leader and everyone followed.
Barrie McDermott:
Some really good stuff there, lads. I want to cover our takeaways for the audience. Let's start with criticism and dealing with criticism in the right way.
Adrian Morley:
Well, if it's constructive criticism, that's great. No one's perfect in the sporting life, in the working life. If your coach or the boss tells you you're doing something wrong or you can do something better, it's important to listen. It's important to be open-minded. And then they're only trying to make you better at the end of the day. So take it on board, apply it, and then see how you go.
Barrie McDermott:
Embracing criticism, Lunty.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, definitely. I think criticism's got a bit of a stigma to it now. People hear the words, criticism, what have I done wrong. Especially I did, getting criticized on a pitch, doing video reviews after a game and the video built then you'd see your name clipped, Lunt, and you know you were going to get smashed in front of everyone. And I was just like, "Oh no, I had no sleep before because I couldn't sleep after games." And that really used to weigh down on me and really changed my mood for the rest of the week. So for me, it's something that I've had to evolve and really look at criticism in a different way and say it's a chance to learn. I'm getting better. Someone's actually giving me the time and say, "Right Shaun, you've done this wrong. Why not try this way?" And again, for me, the word criticism is just to get better, someone's trying to help you and look at it in a positive.
Barrie McDermott:
The next one I want to cover is something we talked about. What does good look like for you? You'd gone away, you'd come back, you had the tools. If you don't have that experience, if you don't have people around you who are good, where do you go to find that?
Shaun Lunt:
So for me, again, going back to the working days, so I was very lucky that I spent a lot of time with my brother, my elder brother, Robert, we're very close. So what we used to do is, when we went back down to championship from a super league level, we made sure we went to the gym in the morning at six o'clock. We went and worked all day on a building yard and then went training at night. So we maintained our level of professionalism, our integrity. So it was an outside influence for me that kept me on the straight and narrow and kept doing the right thing when nobody was watching.
Barrie McDermott:
Moz?
Adrian Morley:
I was fortunate that almost every year I was involved in the international camp, Great Britain or England. So you can't fail to learn off the best players in the country. So players like Andy Farrell, you just watch them either go about the business, turning up for training early, doing extras. And that had an effect on me. If the best players, don't rely on your natural talent. If the best players in the world that are doing extra, it's not by fluke, it's not by chance, it's by hard work and putting them extras in.
Barrie McDermott:
And if you haven't got it in those people around you, you go and seek it, you go and find it because it's an old adage. You become the sum total of the people you spend the most amount of time with, so choose those people very wisely and very carefully. I just want to cover an imposter syndrome and people will look at this and think, full of confidence them guys. But an imposter syndrome sticks with you throughout your life. Whenever you move, whenever you change environment or those people that you're comfortable with. So how did you overcome imposter syndrome?
Adrian Morley:
Well, it took a bit of experience. So I've mentioned when I was playing first team, I'm going to get found out here. Next game, really nervous. They're going to see me for what I am. And it weren't until, as I say, probably a dozen games, that's when the penny dropped for me. And I wish to myself, "Why didn't I just think of that from day one?" But it's very hard to judge it and it's very hard to kid yourself basically. But it is tough.
Barrie McDermott:
It's positive reinforcement. That's what it is.
Adrian Morley:
It is. And again, the same thing happened when I got my first England cap. What am I doing here? I'm in an England team, this is ridiculous. But then after a few games international, I deserve to be here. I'm here on merit. So it's a normal human response, but it's a tough one. But just be confident and think the person who picked you in that squad, they saw something that possibly you didn't see yourself, just embrace it. Just think, I deserve to be here and go for it.
Barrie McDermott:
Trust in yourself, think positive, reinforce those positive thoughts and just go at it with a can do attitude.
Adrian Morley:
Exactly.
Barrie McDermott:
Lunty, is that the imposter syndrome that you felt? Is that something that you buy into?
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, it's something that I hid very well as well. And it wasn't until, again, I started to mature, I became a father and I started realizing I am worthy of this. The reasons that I'm there is because of the little things that I do here, the small things that I do day in, day out. And then I was like, "There's no fluke that I'm here." I'm actually like, again, you mentioned it in episode one about making your own luck, one of your former coaches. And again, the harder you work, the luckier you become at the end of the day. So that for me was just solidifying that you are here, you do deserve to be here, and it's not by fluke. Look at what you've been through to get here. So give yourself a pat on the back and keep doing what got you there.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah. And almost your philosophy is those 10,000 hours, know that it's going to be at the end of the journey when you'll have all the tools, but don't lose faith while you're on the way.
Shaun Lunt:
Yeah, exactly. Like I say, everyone these days wants everything yesterday, but that's not how it works, no. Again, the old cheesy line, Rome wasn't built in a day, nor was it knocked down in a day. And I do believe in that and that's the attitude that I have at life, just one day at a time, one block at a time and just keep moving forward.
Barrie McDermott:
So that's it. Lads, second episode in the bank. We're no longer rookies.
Adrian Morley:
No, hopefully it was informative and educational.
Barrie McDermott:
Yeah.
Shaun Lunt:
And now that I've popped my cherry, I can go and tell all my mates.
Barrie McDermott:
Very good. I think being respected might be a bit further down the track for us though. Yes. Hope you enjoyed the show. Thank you to our friends at Elect. Subscribe and like. I hope to see you next time for Changing Rooms.