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Mom groups: supportive lifeline or unexpected source of stress? In this episode, we explore the history and modern-day reality of mom groups, especially as they’ve shifted to online spaces. We talk about the benefits—connection, shared wisdom, and community—alongside the challenges, including comparison, pressure, and toxicity. Through personal stories, we reflect on how friendships can change during motherhood and why it’s normal to have different levels of connection with different moms. Ultimately, we focus on finding the kind of support that actually feels good and giving yourself permission to step away from what doesn’t.
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Shrink Down?
Four lifelong friends, all clinical psychologists, unpack the latest in current events, pop culture and celebrity news through the lens of psychology.
The Shrink Down (00:00.792)
Hello, welcome back to the Shrinkdown. Ladies, have you enjoyed your time off?
Teri (00:06.506)
Yes, for sure.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (00:06.757)
Yeah, went fast.
Wilhelmina (00:06.872)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (00:08.394)
It was like a nice little like reset. It did. Like it was long, but then it's then it then it Then it then it felt long for a minute and then all of a it was like wait come back It is the holiday season
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (00:13.059)
No, of an eye.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (00:19.503)
Well, such is the holidays, right? They feel long for a minute and then like they're over. Yeah.
Teri (00:21.772)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (00:21.851)
I
The Shrink Down (00:24.748)
Yeah, and then January just like goes by so fast.
Wilhelmina (00:27.449)
law. Well, but yet it's like, there's like suddenly nothing to do. But yet you're like, we're already mid January. How is this happening?
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (00:36.76)
Amen.
The Shrink Down (00:36.812)
Yeah, yeah, definitely feeling that. All right. Well, we threw out a lot of ideas for our first podcast back for this season, and we landed on mom groups. And the reason why is there's been an article circling from Ashley Tisdale, and she basically wrote about her experience with a mom group and how she removed herself from this mom group. But the reality is, is mom groups aren't new. These have been around for years, decades, actually.
And it made me think, well, let know when we're texting back and forth about this, you made the comment of it takes a village, like that whole concept of it. And that is where this came from. This is like an evolutionary theory, not theory, this is evolution, right? Like people, exactly, people raise their children together. That's how they did it. You raise your children together. And it's not just like the experience of raising them side by side, but also the help, right? So.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (01:19.345)
concept.
The Shrink Down (01:31.734)
you helped each other raise your children. So that really is where this feeling of, want other mothers around and I need mother's advice is from this evolutionary concept. I looked up, I found something and I was like, that's a really good way to put it. It mom groups exist because modern society removed its village, but our brain still expects it. Like we still need that and expect it.
Wilhelmina (01:55.151)
Mm. yes.
Teri (01:58.07)
you
The Shrink Down (01:59.65)
So we essentially digitized an ancient survival system. So we made it digital. But I was looking even farther back before, I was wondering when did the first online mom group happen? But there were groups already happening in person before we transitioned it to online. So I think that part is also really interesting how these groups started, I found, as early as the 70s, that there were groups of moms getting together and you know.
Teri (02:23.052)
Thank
The Shrink Down (02:25.762)
doing similar things that we do online, but it's definitely morphed itself over time to becoming this kind of online way of interacting with other moms. Although I think there's still different types of mom groups outside of the online world, but that seems to be kind of the most popular kind of platform that people utilize these days.
Wilhelmina (02:49.327)
feel like my mom was in a group in like the early 80s. I have pictures of like her and then like all the babies and all the moms in the background and they're like 70s early, early 80s do's. And I don't, should ask her more about it, but she was definitely in one.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (03:08.379)
My mom was one in one at the local library. Yeah, we were in it. We would go every week. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (03:10.796)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah.
Teri (03:11.552)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (03:11.588)
Okay, yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (03:18.833)
So nothing new.
The Shrink Down (03:20.258)
No, definitely not a new thing. And I was looking to see when did these mom groups become kind of popular online. was like late 90s, early 2000s. And then Facebook, I think I'm still part of these wherever I live mom group sort of thing. Although I think they've kind of morphed into less asking people about parenting advice and more just asking people where they get stuff or where to get stuff. Yeah, selling stuff.
Teri (03:37.388)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (03:44.394)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (03:45.307)
or like selling stuff.
The Shrink Down (03:47.81)
But Facebook was one of the first major platforms for these kind of mom groups. And that was early 2000. So it's been a long time since they've been around. There's definitely, I think, some positive parts of being in a mom group. What are you guys' thoughts on the positive parts of mom groups? And why do we even like, obviously there's an evolution. We want people, but what are we seeking from these mom groups?
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (04:11.217)
Are we jumping into this combo? No, no faves? I just before we get going, I just wanna I'm like, we can answer that question, Vanessa, but
Wilhelmina (04:11.237)
think.
The Shrink Down (04:16.478)
that's right. That's a good. That's a good point. All right. We'll we'll pause our conversation. Good reminder. Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a couple of weeks. I told you guys when we started, I was like, I'm rusty. I can tell that I'm rusty. All right. Let's pause our conversation about our positive mom group experiences and do our four minute faves. Who wants to start today?
Wilhelmina (04:23.195)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (04:39.323)
I'll start. We were laughing as we were about to record because everyone knows what I'm about to say. This episode won't air for a few weeks, but anyone who has seen my recent Instagram postings knows that over the past couple days, I have been watching the much discussed and talked about heated rivalry show. It's a limited series, six episodes, at least at this point.
on HBO Max. It is based on a book by Rachel Reed called Game Changers. I didn't read the book. And it is about two male hockey players who are rivals and both were really good in high school. Both were rookies and first and second draft pick. And the media likes to like
Teri (05:23.372)
Okay.
Wilhelmina (05:38.971)
play them up as rivals. But then outside of that, they have this romance that develops over the course of the show. And of course, in the world of hockey and the dates of the show are set intentionally, I believe in like, I think it starts in 2011 or 2012 or something like that. So it's earlier than current times. It is such a good show.
It's a romance, it's a sort of like, it's just a beautiful love story. And obviously what is getting a lot of traction is fact that it is two men. The sex scenes in it are actually pretty graphic. it is, I would say like a, I wanna say realistic portrayal, but of course I've personally experienced such things. But.
The Shrink Down (06:31.907)
laughter
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (06:32.535)
everything you know.
Wilhelmina (06:36.791)
I think a lot of people who have watched it, the reactions to it are that it is a beautiful representation of really any relationship, but especially a gay relationship. I think a lot of the mainstream media that represents gay relationships kind of do it in a different way. And this one is so touching. And it really does a beautiful job of portraying these super masculine,
men, but also showing such sensitivity and such softness and such caring. And it made me think about our podcast from last season when we were talking about the mixed messages that men get. And this show does a good job of being like, you can be both and showing how, you know, the communication between these two men, the softness at times between these two men, but then they're also like major league hockey athletes. And it's
Teri (07:18.272)
Thank you.
Wilhelmina (07:36.195)
So good. The longing, the yearning. It's just a very good love story. So highly recommend. Very, very good. The two actors are, the writing is good. Everything about it, the pacing. It's a really well done show. So I know the praise that it's getting. It's getting that praise for a lot of different reasons. And of course, part of it's like a little bit.
They're showing all of these things, but it is truly a good show. So HBO Max. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, really, really good.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (08:10.651)
What did you say? HBO.
The Shrink Down (08:12.141)
I was about to ask about HBO Max.
Wilhelmina (08:19.749)
Terry, what about you?
Teri (08:21.228)
All right, mine's also a show. It's, I'm Chevy Chase and You're Not. The documentary, it was on, it came out a couple of weeks ago on CNN. I have always been a, I don't know, run of the mill Chevy Chase fan. Like, you know, I like Christmas vacation. You know, you watch it every year. And I've always heard that he is just an asshole. And that is pervasive across, you know, years and years and he doesn't,
Wilhelmina (08:26.171)
Oh, I don't know if I want to watch it. I like him so much. I know.
The Shrink Down (08:26.519)
Mm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (08:31.419)
No.
The Shrink Down (08:34.839)
See you now.
Wilhelmina (08:45.391)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (08:46.065)
Yeah.
Teri (08:51.368)
never stayed connected with SNL people, et cetera. But I feel like people of our generation have such a fondness for Chevy Chase. So it's a two or three part program and it had his buy-in, but he didn't have any editing powers. Meaning he's interviewed, but they were able, the producers and directors were able to leave in whatever they wanted. And I think he truly doesn't give a shit what other people think of him.
Wilhelmina (08:57.52)
Yes.
The Shrink Down (09:06.571)
Hmm.
Teri (09:18.604)
And he's in his eighties now. I think he's 82 or 83 and he is still entitled and arrogant and narcissistic and thinks he knows better than everybody else. And I think he got as far as he did because he was such a talented, comedic, physical actor and was good looking for being in the comedy world, especially in the seventies and eighties. But I found it fascinating and.
Wilhelmina (09:18.683)
He does not.
Wilhelmina (09:30.587)
You
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (09:38.961)
Yeah.
Teri (09:47.976)
He doesn't seem concerned with his legacy. He still, you know, he really just sort of does his thing. In some ways it's sort of admirable. Like he just doesn't care and like lives his life and you know, whatever. People can think whatever they want of him. But I think that if you are somebody who has watched a lot of his movies, all the National Lampoon movies and stuff, and we all grew up with those, I think it's a really good, interesting watch.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (09:57.029)
Right.
Wilhelmina (10:13.883)
I saw a clip of it where it was one of those, he thought they were gonna edit it out and they did not edit it out. And he was basically like, well, you're just not smart enough. Like to his interviewer was like, well, you're just not smart.
Teri (10:26.026)
he speaks down to the producers who are producing the documentary. Like, I just don't think you're bright enough to to follow up to track what I'm telling you. I mean, he's very entitled and arrogant. That's just who he is.
Wilhelmina (10:32.793)
Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (10:38.661)
Fascinating.
Wilhelmina (10:39.083)
my gosh, I was like, you really think very highly of yourself.
Teri (10:42.624)
They weren't able to get, he wasn't even invited to the SNL 50 year anniversary, which he apparently felt snubbed, but he was not, and he was one of the OG cast members and was not invited. And then he was on that show, that comedy community, an NBC that was really big years ago. Not one member of that cast was willing to speak about him or be interviewed about working with him.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (10:47.365)
I was going to say that I had read about.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (10:52.933)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (10:57.093)
Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (11:04.987)
Yeah. Well, that's where he was apparently particularly difficult. Like on that. Like more so than in previous working environments. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (11:05.285)
Really?
The Shrink Down (11:06.508)
Oof.
Teri (11:10.22)
Yeah. And he was older than I think he was in his like late sixties, early seventies and probably really.
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (11:20.037)
Did they have any of the people from the Lampoon's vacation movies?
Teri (11:23.712)
Beverly D'Angelo, who speaks pretty warmly of him, but she sort of speaks warmly of just the experience of doing the movies.
Wilhelmina (11:31.108)
Okay.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (11:31.213)
And they still like go and do like screenings of it together. So they've clearly got a working relationship that's lasted somehow.
Teri (11:35.21)
Yes, yes, yeah.
Wilhelmina (11:36.654)
Okay.
Teri (11:41.152)
that's lasted right.
Wilhelmina (11:41.605)
Well, and she had a relationship with, didn't she have a relationship with Al Pacino too? So maybe she's just used to dealing with like kind of, yeah. Men with like a lot of.
Teri (11:47.35)
You might have a high tolerance. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. For those kind of dudes. Yeah. Yeah, so it's good. I recommend. Yeah. How about you, Vanessa?
The Shrink Down (11:49.131)
Snarly.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (11:50.065)
That's good.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (11:56.698)
Interesting.
The Shrink Down (11:59.825)
so mine is a snack that I've been enjoying, on my protein journey. So yes, more, more protein recommendations guys. this is actually something Mark found and, I, I drink one of these probably every day. So it's a plant based protein shake. It's called Koya. So it's K O I A, it's target has it. or we get it from our grocery store. I even seen it. Starbucks is now carrying.
like one of the flavors, except it's in those like, you know, those like a carton sort of thing. And I found that it tastes different than the like plastic bottle that you get it in at the grocery store for some reason. But anyway, they're kind of all over the place. But really good, low in sugar, high protein, and some really good flavors. And like my problem with protein shakes that are like pre-made is that there's often like a weird taste after like at the end.
and I haven't found that, there's a couple of flavors that I don't like, but some of my favorite is chocolate banana. Like it's, it's so good. It's I like become borderline like obsessed with it. So good. it's like, it's just under 200 calories and it's like 18 grams of protein, depending on which one flavor you got. I did not like the plain chocolate. I thought it was gross, but like so many good flavors. So like chocolate banana is favorite. Vanilla is a really good one.
There's an almond coconut that's really good. And then there's a banana cream that's really good. So there's a lot of good flavors. So if you're looking for like a kind of quick, easy protein option, I recommend trying Koya.
Wilhelmina (13:41.859)
It's interesting that the chocolate one, I usually you think the vanilla one is like being if there's going to be a questionable flavor that the vanilla one would be the questionable one and not the chocolate. So it's interesting that the chocolate one is the questionable one.
The Shrink Down (13:47.755)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (13:52.973)
Yeah, like I did not like it. was like, that is disgusting. And so then when I saw chocolate banana, was kind of like, I don't know, because I hate, like, I don't like fake fruit flavors, like fake banana, fake straw. Like I just, I've never liked them. And so I was a little bit hesitant. like, let me try it. But the banana itself, the banana cream one is so good. And then the chocolate banana one together is really good. So those are like my two favorite ones. So obviously everyone has different taste buds, so it may not.
But that's that would be my so my husband likes there's an orchata one which I I don't like or chahta to begin with which is like that Like Spanish rice milk drink and he's like you're Mexican and you don't like that. like, no, I don't like it He loves them. So there's like that flavor and he was like, it's so good But I was like, I don't even like that flavor In real life. I guess definitely don't want an approaching Jake But some really good flavors and super easy and now that I've said it you're probably gonna start seeing it everywhere because literally now that we started drinking them I'm like
Teri (14:42.301)
Mm-hmm.
The Shrink Down (14:45.451)
It's at the airport. It's at the Target. It's at the Starbucks. So keep an eye out for Koya. Lauren, how about you?
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (14:50.448)
Nice.
So I am sharing, so on your protein journey, I'm on a journey to stay warm while walking the dog in Michigan winters. And I actually really enjoy getting outside and walking. But I need to like be properly insulated. I found the best leggings and they're at Target and they're by a brand, but they're not Target brand. They're called Cuddle Duds. I had never seen them before.
The Shrink Down (15:01.347)
yes, yeah.
Teri (15:01.684)
Hmm.
Teri (15:17.132)
Hmm.
Wilhelmina (15:18.445)
I have seen that at Target, yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (15:21.009)
They are, okay, $21.99. I'm looking up my receipt for my Target app. They are so good. They have like totally, like I had the coat, I had the good boots, right? Like the hat, all that stuff. The leggings have changed the game for me because I feel like if you're properly covered, I really like them a lot and find myself just wearing them anyway. They're not as good as a good pair of leggings to wear out and about.
But if I know I'm going to be home, for example, all day long and like working from home and so I'm going to take the dog on a couple different walks, I'll like throw those out for the day. But I put them on over top other leggings and they are really good. So Cuddle Duds leggings out, we'll link it, they're like the fleece lined or whatever. I yeah, I think their term is warm essentials or something like that, thermal.
The Shrink Down (16:08.045)
I was about say, is that, okay.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:15.659)
So, but they're at Target and it was like this little display. So it was different than like your Target branded stuff. The, can't even remember the Target brands, All in One or whatever they're called. Yeah, All in Motion. Yeah, but it was its own little display. Cuddle Duds. So well worth the, you know, just over $20. And yeah, so I mean, just they're good for anybody that runs cold in our locations during winter.
Teri (16:26.068)
All in motion, whatever. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (16:27.887)
Yeah. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (16:35.671)
That's good to know.
Teri (16:42.538)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:43.197)
but particularly if you're outside a lot. So highly recommend.
The Shrink Down (16:46.413)
Yeah, I've been actually, when I'm wearing leggings in the house before I go walk the dog, I'm putting like sweatpants over and Mark's like, are you doubling up? I'm like, yeah, it's freezing outside. I was like, yeah. And then I had to put, yeah, I'm like putting my sweat. So that's good to know, like, because I literally just got back from a walk for her and I'm like, I'm freezing. Like, I'm still trying to figure out. Yes. Good to know.
Wilhelmina (16:46.51)
That's good to know.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:51.417)
Yeah. I sure do. Yep. Like I have my good leggings and then I throw these on over top. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Teri (16:55.252)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (16:55.269)
Yep. Yep.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (17:03.855)
Yes, this is what I do. So yeah, cuddle duds, cute little name, so, but at Target.
Wilhelmina (17:07.481)
Yeah, I just bought some like boot cut like thermal kind of leggings for the same reason when I'm walking the kids to school. I'm like normal leggings. I'm like I am freezing. Yeah, yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (17:12.421)
Yeah. Yeah.
you can't they cut right through you. Yeah. And then when that's the thing that is cold on your body, then you like can't like stay out or whatever. Yeah. So anyway, cuddle duds. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (17:17.559)
breathing.
Wilhelmina (17:23.131)
That's all you focus on. Yes.
Teri (17:24.096)
I know.
The Shrink Down (17:26.829)
Good know. Good wreck. All right. All right, everyone, thanks for sharing. And Lauren, thank you for reminding me. I literally said, I'm like, my brain, I know, is not operating properly today. OK, so now we are going to get into our discussion about mom groups. So I mentioned how we've of come to how they were created. So let's talk about the good parts. Like, why do people seek these out?
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (17:32.657)
I wanted to show you those leggings.
Teri (17:34.444)
you
The Shrink Down (17:51.981)
aside from our brain wanting that, right? But like, what are people looking for in these groups? And what are some of like the positive parts of groups? We can talk about our experiences in mom groups and also just kind of like what we've heard and what we know.
Wilhelmina (18:04.127)
I think a sense of belonging is a big one, right? We all want to belong. And when you are going through the motherhood, parenthood journey, to be able to have people who are doing it at the same time as you, and you can connect on that, and you can... I think there's so many different aspects, especially when you become a mother, that...
Teri (18:04.428)
It's enough.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (18:07.461)
Yeah, yeah.
Wilhelmina (18:33.231)
change in your life and to be able to share that with other people who are experiencing it together feels good. So it's a shared experience and belonging within that shared experience.
Teri (18:45.408)
I think for me personally, what I liked the most was more practical suggestions. So what onesie do you like? What diaper brand do you like? There's so much out there nowadays, just what's working for you? Now we're at a stage of what lacrosse cleats work best for your kid.
Wilhelmina (18:52.493)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (18:54.245)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (19:01.52)
Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (19:08.901)
Yeah.
Teri (19:10.132)
You know, you think there's so much out there and you do your own research and you think about like what works, what's going to work for my kid. what I in addition to the sense of belonging, I think from a practical level, as soon as you become a mom, it is uncharted territory. Even if you have siblings who are parents or parents already, and you have lots of nieces and nephews and your parents have been through it before, but they parented in a very different generation and maybe they had different gendered kids and, you know, et cetera. you you're trying to figure out what to actually do.
as a mom and as a kid at a practical level as well. My kids being a picky eater, what did you do about your kid being a picky eater? And so it's just, think getting tips and tricks also is just as valuable for a lot of people. That's at least what it was for me when I became a mom was just what are people actually buying? What are they doing? You know, what strategies for sleep training are working?
Wilhelmina (19:50.522)
You
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (20:00.475)
See, that's interesting. Yep. I had a totally different experience. Well, let me rephrase. Those kinds of things I found overwhelming in online mom forums. Like, what are you buying? What are you doing? Because I felt like if I didn't like see all the responses and pick the correct one and do all the things. So for me, the online mom group forum has never been something that I have looked toward.
Teri (20:12.683)
Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (20:29.241)
I'm like looking at the three of you right now and I'm like, I'm looking at this kind of like the actual like physical human beings that I know and I love and I trust that are my. OK. Man, I look at some of those online groups and when people ask those questions, I'm like, how do you filter through these responses or like how do you like, right? Versus this group, my group of, you know, friends here at home that are in the same ages and stages, then yes, it's like
Teri (20:33.728)
Yeah, that's what I'm speaking to. That's getting those tips and tricks from real people, not online. Yeah, real people.
Wilhelmina (20:37.519)
That's what I'm speaking to too. That's what I'm speaking to too, yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (20:58.825)
to me, in person groups filter all that online piece. And that's the benefit. Well, I wasn't sure which one you were speaking to, because I was like, those online ones make me so anxious. And there's actually a lot of research about the like difference in stress hormone in an in person.
Teri (21:04.3)
And you put that much better than I did. Yeah. no, no.
The Shrink Down (21:14.305)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (21:23.633)
group that's like a positive experience for you and supportive versus the online ones actually increase cortisol for some people that that's like me.
Teri (21:30.272)
Yeah, I think the in-person really helped me filter through what I don't have to worry about the online stuff because there's so much when you Google it. And in-person is like, I see you, I see your kid, they're in the same age range. You seem like you have this on lock. Yes, yes. What are you doing with this?
The Shrink Down (21:31.329)
I can see that.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (21:34.417)
huh.
Yes, I can ignore that.
Wilhelmina (21:43.257)
You parents similarly to me.
The Shrink Down (21:44.909)
Yeah, yeah. think that's, and I think that's one of the big, I think that one of the things that we should, like, yeah, we're saying that there's different types of mom groups. And I could see why a public platform or even like just a large platform where you don't know these people versus here's my friends that I've been friends with for however many years. And we are now all in the mom stage sort of thing. And now we are talking to, like,
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (21:55.003)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (22:12.593)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (22:14.945)
That to me feels so wildly different. And I know that some women don't have the, like, for whatever reason, they may not have that kind of long-term friend group that, you know, has, you know, now all our friends all have, you know, kids sort of thing, and they have to rely on some of these. But I could clearly see why one may have more kind of negative kind of outcomes to it, because you don't already have this, like, shared relationship with these people. And I don't think...
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (22:18.384)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (22:19.547)
Absolutely.
The Shrink Down (22:45.153)
that having one shared thing, like we're moms, that that's automatically gonna make us click with each other. There's just so many other things that go along with it.
Teri (22:52.236)
Okay.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (22:54.289)
Right.
Teri (22:57.868)
Well, think that, and I think this whole, takes a village. You need a village. If you don't have a village, find your village, create a village. I think that is so shoved down women's throats that if women don't feel like they have their in-person village and whether those, like you said, Vanessa, those are formally established friendships and everyone just happens to have kids in that same time. So that's very convenient. Or if not, and it's, do you become friends with...
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (23:06.929)
you
Teri (23:25.494)
to just the people in your community, the other moms in the school community, the preschool community, or the moms of your kids' friends. And I think it needs to be organic. And I think when it's manufactured is when it gets tricky. So it's all the moms who have four-year-olds who are entering kindergarten, let's all meet up at the park and do pizza. That is a great idea. That's very manufactured. And I think when it's...
some of the closest mom friends I have in my community, it's been a much more natural, organic process of our kids being the same age. They all get along, we're together, the husbands get along, we get along. And I have actually paused and asked myself, would I be friends with this woman if our kids weren't friends? And if the answer is not yes, I am probably not going to go out of my way to put effort into that particular relationship as a mom friend.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (24:22.063)
And I think that's where people get confused. And at least my interpretation of the piece that spurred this conversation, I'm curious as to the, this was Ashley Tisdale, right? That wrote the article. Like, did she really know that question that Terry just asked? Did she really know herself and like what she was looking for in a group of people? And let's take away the word mom and
Teri (24:36.126)
and
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (24:50.425)
maybe their values just didn't line up as maybe they shouldn't have been friends. And then that's on with all due respect, that's on her to kind of figure out like, wait a minute, I would not had we not come together during COVID and created our own little pod, which is what happened. That's what they did. They had kids at the same time COVID hit and they became like a pod. So that wasn't organic. It was like a forced pandemic situation. And I'm curious, like,
Wilhelmina (24:51.327)
friend.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (25:20.881)
You have to really know yourself and your values and the people that you would spend time with regardless of your circumstances. And it seems to me like that was probably part of what was going on there.
Teri (25:34.73)
I thought it was ironic that she wrote an essay about toxic mom groups and friends and had it published that twice. The level, the level of effort dedicated to that seems a little problematic. Might be a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black. think some of the responses have been just as problematic. So you wonder, you know, about all of the players. Yes. Yes. Right.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (25:42.769)
twice.
Wilhelmina (25:43.835)
Twice, twice.
The Shrink Down (25:43.981)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (25:46.513)
That's a lot.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (25:50.373)
Yeah. Right.
Wilhelmina (25:52.155)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (25:58.314)
Yeah, to your point, maybe they weren't supposed to be friends. Like, and that's okay.
Wilhelmina (26:01.787)
Well, in.
read the article and I actually was like, okay, tell me about this. Because I certainly have experienced kind of like seeing toxic mom, other moms that you're like, they are really wanting to recreate some high school dynamics and clickiness and all that. I've certainly witnessed it. I really try to steer clear of it, but I mean, I'm sure we've all seen it, right? So I was sort of like, okay, Ashley, what happened? Like, tell me about this, you know? And it almost sounded like she was just like, they just started excluding me.
Teri (26:04.716)
Great, great.
Teri (26:29.92)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (26:34.329)
And then that toxic mom group, and I'm like, wait, so they just, maybe you just weren't clicking anymore and then they just, wait, what? Why is that?
Teri (26:41.929)
Or there was an event that they decided to go to and thought maybe she wouldn't be interested or they didn't want to include her, which you're allowed to do. You don't have to invite everybody to everything.
Wilhelmina (26:51.097)
I think it also points to, you know, when I first moved to the area that I'm in now, there's a lot of social things where you can meet up to meet other people and they are not organic. They're definitely very like curated and, you know, yes, organized. And they're a great way to just meet a lot of people right away. But eventually you start to see who you like, you know, when you go to these things and then you start to just form your own groups and
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (27:04.175)
Organized.
Teri (27:05.131)
Mm-hmm.
The Shrink Down (27:09.197)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (27:20.847)
And I think if you are in a group, and I was just talking about this with some other mom friends, I was like, if you're in a group of over like four or five people, you're gonna start to have drama. Like the bigger the clique, the bigger the group, mom friends and everything, the more you're gonna get little subsets of groups, you're gonna get, and part of that is just natural. And so I think you gotta also look around at, this huge group,
The Shrink Down (27:34.251)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (27:50.009)
you're gonna run into issues. And so who are really your friends, Terry, like you said, which of these moms would you be friends with if you weren't a mom? And then those are the ones to focus your energy on because those are
Teri (27:58.518)
Hmm.
The Shrink Down (28:00.023)
Yeah, and it's, I think it's okay. I think one other thing is like, and I've had to come to terms with this a little bit in the sense of I, so when my daughter went to school, I immediately clicked with one of the moms and her daughter and Everly became really good friends. And in my, not smart brain, I was like, this is so easy. Like this just happens, right? And it has not happened since where she does have friends, but like, I am not like,
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (28:00.664)
And why does it go ahead?
The Shrink Down (28:27.533)
close with any of the moms. And I've just had to be like, that's OK. She can have her play dates. She can have her friends. You don't have to become part of a group or even friends with someone's parents just because your kid's playing. It can be totally fine for your children to be friends, and you do not have to be friends with them. And that's OK. And so I think taking that pressure, you don't have to automatically become besties just because your child and this other child are.
Wilhelmina (28:52.795)
Besties. Yes.
Teri (28:53.868)
Do you think there's something to it being a girl mom? Do you think that there's a thing where like, cause I just have two boys, but do you think that's more of a thing among moms who have daughters? Like, the daughters are friends and then we'll be friends and the four of us will go do early things.
The Shrink Down (29:10.157)
I don't know, honestly, I don't know. Because I don't have any other children. But I also feel like that was just me. don't know if other people. I just assumed, like, we got along with this family so well. And we're like, oh, we became friends. We're not best friends. But we go out to dinner sometimes without the kids and our kids. So I don't know. I just thought how convenient it is. Our friends get along. So then it's easier, obviously, if you get along. I don't know. Well, you have one of each. So you're the good one to ask.
Wilhelmina (29:35.839)
I have a yeah, I was like, so I think the tricky thing here though is so Maddie was my first so I I definitely had a little mom group where we met weekly for like almost two years and So it's just four people and then they each had a girl
Teri (29:37.482)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (29:54.107)
And we were pretty close for those couple years, but then there was like a move and then different schools. And I'm still pretty close to one of the moms, very close, but like the others just kind of, but I'm like, would that have happened if they were boys? I don't know. Like I have not had the same thing with Griffin with his, but then I have a lot of the social stuff because of Maddie. So a lot of my like social things.
or started with Maddie, because she was my first, and then kind of, especially people who have siblings. So they like, they have a sibling. So I know them from Maddie. So then they have a sibling in Griffin's class. So we know each other. And then now the new moms are the ones that are his friends that we connect. But we're not necessarily friends. Some of us are, but not necessarily friends beyond just a shared experience of having our kids together. It's, it's a sort of a spreading out.
The Shrink Down (30:46.935)
Yeah. Well, Terry, you hang out. Well, Terry, you hang out with moms. So those are your kids' Like, you've foreign friendships with.
Teri (30:53.6)
Made them all, yeah, yeah, they're all through. yeah. No, I don't think so either.
Wilhelmina (30:54.074)
Yeah, you.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (30:55.184)
do the same. have the same. No, I don't think it's I was gonna say I have friends in my little my little crew that have girls and boys and we're they're all in the same grade. And I don't even know. Yeah, activities just shared experiences, I think is what ends up. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (30:56.501)
Yeah, so it's not I don't think it's girl like I don't think it's a girl.
Teri (31:12.62)
It's just shared experiences. now I just feel like as the years go by, some of them have kids in the same grades as my boys and some don't. Some might be a grade above or below or whatever, and we just all sort of. Now I also have a few friends too that have a professional overlap. So like one I share an office space with now. So I have one friend whose kids go to my kid's school and we live in the same community and now we also share an office suite. So we have sort of a couple different touch points.
Wilhelmina (31:30.587)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Teri (31:39.724)
But I think that's true of any and all friendships at any stage of life is you have shared commonalities just in terms of aspects of your life that overlap a lot. And I think, I mean, one thing I agree with this whole size thing that you were saying, Wilhelmina, when they showed whatever the picture was that was accompanied the essay, I was like, damn, there's like eight women in that pic. Like there's a lot. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (32:02.571)
many people. Of course there's drama. Of course there's drama.
The Shrink Down (32:04.907)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (32:06.0)
But is it doesn't here's here's what's interesting though. One of the things you said, Wilhelmina, that I wanted to go back to is you said drama in a bigger group. But then you also said it would be natural for smaller groups to form. And I think it's all in how you interpret it. I think what I heard from you is more like, all right. So like there's a group of eight women and three of them went and did something to get like that's natural when you get to a group of that size. It's if you interpret it as it then being dramatic.
It doesn't have to be drama filled. I have a larger group of mom friends from the school and we definitely all do our own thing with like myself and one other mom or like, you know, and it's not drama filled. It's like, do you know what I mean? Like it's all in the interpretation of it.
Teri (32:36.204)
Great.
Wilhelmina (32:54.617)
That's a really good point, Lauren, because I will say that earlier on, I had a group of mom friends and then there would be these little branches off. oftentimes it would be like, our kids were doing swimming lessons together. But like, I would hear that they were exchanging texts or things like that. And I would feel excluded. And there was a period where I was getting really hurt by it.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (33:10.702)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (33:23.117)
and really feeling left out and feeling excluded. I had a couple different things. I mean, some of you know some of the experience that I've had that where I was like felt very excluded. And then one, I kind of had to do my own work on it and realize that some of the stuff was coming from my own issues, right? Like I'd always had this like childhood, like I want a best friend, I want a best friend. so like I've, but like some of that was my own stuff.
And once I kind of worked through some of that myself, I felt, I actually, my daughter and I were watching Clueless together. And at the very near the end of it, Cher, the main character goes through and she's like, all my friends are beautiful in their own way. And she kind of goes through this friend is, you know, with this and this friend is this and this friend is this. And I was like, wait, that's what my friends are. Like I have friends that like,
Some of them talk about books with and some I talk about movies with and some I share so much history with. And I don't have to be have just like one friend or two friends. I have all of these beautiful or very friends. And I was able to sort of let some of that go. So Lauren, to your point, like when I started having that feeling, it was not about what they were doing. It was my own stuff being stirred up.
The Shrink Down (34:19.115)
Thank you.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:36.688)
Yeah, that's interesting.
The Shrink Down (34:38.626)
Yeah.
Teri (34:38.797)
Can I ask you, did you do anything else about it? Did you ever have conversations with them about feeling left out? you, cause that's, yes. Like what did you do? Yeah. Exactly.
Wilhelmina (34:44.803)
Yes. Yes. Well, at first.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:46.446)
Or did you do your own work?
The Shrink Down (34:47.982)
Did you write an essay and put it in and-
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:51.844)
That's... Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (34:52.473)
I did not write an essay, but I did write a really very quick on the fly text to a group where I had felt excluded. And I did it when I was at a 10, which not, I do not recommend, I do not recommend such things. What's really funny is that I actually, and still looking back after doing all of the work that I've done on myself.
It actually wasn't the worst text that I could have sent. actually was a pretty like, but to people, to the people I sent it to, felt very aggressive and it felt, and it sort of blew up and it's, it ended up, we came out of it actually pretty strong and we, I had individual conversations with the people and we all had a good communication about it. And I feel like everyone sort of understood the situation.
The Shrink Down (35:28.647)
Hahaha!
Wilhelmina (35:48.099)
And I basically was like, wait, if I had talked to these people individually, worked through my own stuff. So I have confronted it. And I did pull a little bit of an Ashley Tisdale. I just didn't do it publicly. I did it within the group. But I definitely had felt that. And I am prone to feeling that. Terry, we've talked about that. I am prone to feeling left out. That's just, I think being an only child, you're sort of like,
The Shrink Down (36:02.926)
You
Teri (36:12.716)
Yes.
I think it pulls up the only child stuff for you. And I think that's a commonality, I think, for a lot of individuals who have not all only children, but I think that is something that I've heard about in my therapy practice. And I think it's, that's a common thread. And I do think there's a, a place to have that conversation, whether it's a text at a 10 or an essay or whatever. But I think that depending on where you're sitting, if it's valuable to you, if it's something that you feel like, no, I really.
Wilhelmina (36:33.051)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (36:44.257)
These particular people in this particular group made me feel slighted, but I enjoy their company and I value them enough. I think this feels worthwhile. But I think part of getting older and maturing is being like, if they wanted to invite me, they would. And if they didn't, they didn't. And I don't care. I'm going to be over here doing all the other things I got to take care of.
Wilhelmina (36:49.817)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (36:56.943)
Yeah. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (37:00.93)
There was some, I just saw some acronyms. It was like the opposite of FOMO. was like, JOMO, Joy of Missing. Well, know, only not like I, so I am not quick to lash out in a text, but like, I certainly will catch myself being like, am I being too sensitive right now? Like, you know, about things that happen. Right. So like, like I'm always like, I'm always like, let me think about this, you know, and sometimes, you know, whatever. But I think,
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (37:05.53)
Joy, joy of missing out.
Teri (37:08.865)
That is, yes, don't even ask me.
Wilhelmina (37:19.771)
The answer for that for me is always yes.
Teri (37:22.689)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (37:27.566)
So I get what you're saying about feeling sometimes like that, even if you stop and realize like, okay, it's not a big deal, like whatever. But I think, again, I think it goes back to who are these people that are your friends, right? if that, honestly, like if we did that, right, I don't think you would have interpreted that very different. Like if this group had something like that going on, you would interpret it very different, I think, than you would like a group of moms you...
had only known for, you know what I mean, for so long within that context of like, this is my kid's friend. So I think that also plays a big role into like how you interpret things. And like Lauren, you were saying like, it's okay if we all have our own kind of do because like, that's not us, right? Like this group or maybe some other group of moms where you're like, it's a different relationship or dynamic. So I could see that in certain groups that like everyone would be like, it's okay because this is not, we're not a 20 year friendship group, right? Or whatever.
Teri (37:55.405)
couple years.
The Shrink Down (38:23.746)
versus like, if you were in that situation, you may interpret it something like very differently. So I think that that plays a big role. Like how long have you known this mom, these moms and like, what is your relationship with these moms?
Wilhelmina (38:32.379)
how big a group is it? Like you said, like we're a group of four. So if the three of us go on a vacation and exclude you or whatever, that's gonna be a big deal, right?
The Shrink Down (38:37.07)
Right. You would get an aggressive text from me. You would also get an essay.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (38:40.72)
But you guys, but you guys get, hold on, hold on, but you guys get together without me.
Teri (38:45.537)
way.
Wilhelmina (38:50.565)
So I was gonna mention that. I was gonna say, I.
Teri (38:51.51)
Yes.
The Shrink Down (38:52.694)
Yeah, but that's well, but that's because we live in different cities, right? And like, we don't hide it from you. We're not like, don't tell Lauren.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (38:58.19)
No, but also I could interpret that very differently. I could be like, they should be inviting me because maybe I would take the trip. I just, I was thinking, was it Vanessa or Romina, what you were just saying? And I was thinking of that. And I've done this before with people when they're in, having some marriage difficulties. And we're talking about that in therapy, the idea of like one person should not fulfill all roles for you. And I always feel that way of like,
Teri (38:59.051)
way.
Teri (39:03.021)
true.
Right.
The Shrink Down (39:07.214)
That's true.
Wilhelmina (39:23.867)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.
Teri (39:24.075)
Yes. Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (39:26.956)
my gosh, of course I would want to be there with you guys, but I'm also able to take a step back and say they can't fulfill that role of friendship for me right now because I'm physically not going to get there. Like, like, right? Like, and if I'm feeling like, of course I'm feeling like, I wish I could be there, but also I, I can like fulfill that need in a different way.
Teri (39:37.761)
Right. Right.
Teri (39:45.495)
Well, sort of like I've
The Shrink Down (39:46.904)
And just for anybody listening, Lauren was referring to the fact that Terry and Wilhelmina live in Chicago and my family's from there. So like, I will go into town for holidays and stuff and see them. Yeah, like.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (39:54.264)
Yeah. Yeah. I just interpret it differently for that purpose, but I guess I could not. But I just, I guess I don't expect expectations. Yeah. I think it's expectations of like, of course I would expect them. would be like, that would be kind of like odd if you didn't try to get together or like, I, of course I would expect that of you guys. And I don't know.
Teri (39:58.955)
Yeah, but I bought.
The Shrink Down (40:04.652)
I think if you had a different personality and you were sensitive, you might get upset about that. So I think it's also about, yeah.
Wilhelmina (40:21.083)
Well, how do you two, Vanessa and Lauren, how do you two feel? Because Terry and I will get together because we are in the same city. So we will have lunch or get together and do scalp.
The Shrink Down (40:26.595)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (40:27.268)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (40:35.234)
Yeah, so it doesn't make me feel like I don't feel upset about it because obviously you guys live together, but I will say I do think the dynamic between the two of you is different than like, then like all like, yeah, you guys I see feel like no things about are closer to each other. I guess that's a good way to say it. Like, I do think there's a difference between your relationship and like all four of us because you do spend more time together. So, but it doesn't bother, it's like, yeah, I'm not upset about it. Yeah. So like, yeah.
Teri (40:37.397)
We never do weird things.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (40:39.13)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (40:52.419)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (40:58.896)
but it doesn't hurt my feelings. That's, yeah, like it just makes sense. Like I have a group of friends and if somebody has seen me before one of the women I'm really close to and they have like, they'll be like, hey, did you ask her about that? Like it doesn't even make them think twice to ask. They just assume I would know because I'm closer to her and I probably saw her more recently than they did, right? Like, and that's kind of how I feel about you, you know, like.
Teri (40:59.147)
Yeah.
Teri (41:26.157)
And technically our friend group, the four of us is a splinter group coming out of the small cohort we had in our PhD program. We weren't part of a massive cohort. There was maybe 10, right? 10 or maybe 13, if you count the rehab people, I don't know. Right? mean, it's PhD programs in clinical psychology are not large in general. They tend to be pretty small cohorts. And so the four of us, and there were...
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:28.11)
Makes sense.
Wilhelmina (41:33.243)
Yes. Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:34.2)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, there were only 10.
The Shrink Down (41:38.734)
Yeah, I think that's done.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:38.896)
I don't know how many we ended with, but I think we started with 10.
The Shrink Down (41:42.84)
Yeah
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:48.954)
Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (41:53.407)
social events that we would sometimes go to. And then as the years went by, we wouldn't, at least I wasn't going to a lot of them, but I would still get together with you girls. And so I think that is very, again, organic in how friendships form and are cultivated. And it just sort of is an offshoot and that's very normal.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (42:02.768)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (42:13.422)
Yeah. And I think if you don't have that solid friendship, then things like, you know, not just what we're talking about, like the relationship differently, but people can start to get, you know, anxious about, they're doing this and I'm not like, not even together, but I mean, like for their child, or maybe they know what's better sort of thing. And you start to like compare your experience to them. And I think if you don't have that like really solid friend foundation as like, and then like two individuals, it can really start to have like affects your experience.
And most of the time in these groups, the person who's the loudest is going to be the one. So I can see how there could be lots of different kind of negative, not just the feeling left out, but even just the dynamic between people and what you're hearing from the other moms can really affect you if you don't have a really good solid friendship and you don't feel like that you're being heard or.
Teri (42:43.117)
Hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (43:07.492)
Yeah, having a basis of what, who you are, what you want out of those relationships. And it can't just be mom stuff. And maybe that's part of it is this idea that because we share this experience, we should be close and you should invite me to all these things. that's just, I mean, I think we all know we're all in situations in which our kids are at school. You're not friends with everybody.
Teri (43:16.033)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (43:17.08)
No, that is.
The Shrink Down (43:19.096)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (43:35.043)
No, well, I texted a girlfriend earlier today. Well, I texted two of them to be like, hey, we're talking about mom groups. And my one friend said, like, I felt like it was exhausting to kind of find my group. And she said, I felt like I had to kiss a lot of frogs to find. And she said with, and she's high to do. And she said with mom groups, she's like, okay, first, do you get along with the other moms?
Teri (43:35.275)
Right. That's okay.
The Shrink Down (43:35.34)
Yeah, I my kid that all the time. Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (43:35.504)
That's okay. That's okay.
The Shrink Down (43:53.068)
I like that.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (43:56.666)
I like that.
Wilhelmina (44:03.641)
Do your kids get along? Do your husbands, if you're getting together, like all together, do your husbands get along? Do you have probably again, similarly aged kids? Are they in the same activities? Financial status or financial grouping? She's like, all of these things start to play in, right? Especially if you start to like go on vacations. Well, if you have one friend, know, group that's like going to like,
Teri (44:22.573)
Yeah, that's true. That's true.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (44:24.068)
Mm-hmm. They make a difference.
Wilhelmina (44:31.963)
Turks and Caicos every spring break and you're like, well, we're gonna do a little staycation and maybe if we're crazy, we're going to Wisconsin Dells for a day. Like there's gonna be a different, yeah. So she's like, there's so many different factors that kind of all have to sort of like, you don't have to have every single one of those match up, but you've gotta have like more of those than not sort of sync up to actually create that sort of magic that would be sort of like the like really good.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (44:42.544)
There's a different dynamic.
The Shrink Down (44:42.574)
dynamic. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (45:01.261)
mom group dynamic. And again, more numbers, you're not going to have that sync up.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (45:06.512)
But I love what she said to you. She had to kiss a lot of frogs. Something that brought up is like, Ashley Tisdale writing this essay, her kids are four and one. So she didn't give it a whole lot. Like I had a mom group in preschool and we're no longer a group because we would go after preschool to the park behind the preschool and let the kids play. It was natural then, but.
Teri (45:17.377)
I was going to point that out as well.
Wilhelmina (45:22.893)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Similar. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (45:29.327)
Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (45:30.465)
Yeah, her kids can't even do much yet. Right.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (45:33.156)
Right. And then everybody kind of went their own ways because different schools, different activities, to your point, will mean a different socioeconomic status, like all these different things. And it's like it does take time to figure out who is going to be a friend first and then also somebody that you could consider part of this group, so to speak. And so to have this like big moment when your children are still in the like toddlerhood preschool age, it's like
The Shrink Down (45:37.016)
your kids get into different things and yeah. Yeah.
Teri (45:38.861)
huh.
Wilhelmina (45:47.321)
Mm-hmm. Part of this.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (46:00.72)
It just sort of points to the quick fix society that we're in, right? It's like, does take a minute. And while I feel badly for anybody that feels like they've been mistreated, still, it's like, maybe take a beat.
Teri (46:03.693)
No.
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (46:13.753)
And you know what, I just said this to Erica the other day. I said, she was talking about some changes going on in her life. And I said, I think my life and friends, not the core group, but some of those acquaintances that are friends, they have shifted every three to four years, I feel like. There's been a shift. And it's been with between,
you know, initially it was like moves or this or kids ages or whatever. I said, I kind of like felt a little settled and then things shifted a little bit and then kind of whatever. some of those people have been there each time and then some have changed out. so I was like every three to four years and obviously COVID thrown in there too, which changed things up. But I was like, I just think part of it is that
you're not ever going have this giant group of friends that they're just going to continue with you through all of time. Like you're just, that's just not realistic. You're going to have it shift and change as you shift and change as your kids shift and change. And if you're lucky, you're going to pull a couple people that are going to be joining maybe a core group. But like that's, that's if you're lucky, like you're, you're not going to just, I don't know, it's just, you're going to have more friends that are just sort of friends.
The Shrink Down (47:31.31)
Well, that makes sense. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (47:33.875)
Like maybe more than acquaintances but friends? Yes! Yes.
Teri (47:34.893)
for that season, yeah.
The Shrink Down (47:36.674)
Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, like, I mean, that reminds me what you said earlier, Terry, like you're like, yeah, I'm asking about cleats, whatever. So like, I think you have different groups that you ask different things to, like, you know, when we have serious like things going on with our kids, we're asking each other. And then, you know, I don't, and when you need lacrosse cleats, you're going to ask the lacrosse mom, right? Like, like, yeah, you're not asking us like, you know, like, right. So like, I think you, you also have to be aware that you're going to have different
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (47:45.231)
Yeah.
Teri (47:45.549)
Okay.
Wilhelmina (47:49.411)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Teri (47:49.751)
Hmm?
Teri (47:54.177)
Right. Right. Right.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (47:54.286)
You're not texting us, right?
Wilhelmina (47:54.949)
Right, you're not texting us, yes.
The Shrink Down (48:04.312)
groups of friends and your needs are gonna get met by different people. And you don't necessarily need to have a group. Maybe you just have one or two moms that you get along with really well, that you can go to for, know, whatever you need. And that's okay too. So I think that people have to be okay that knowing like, you don't have to have like a, this big group of friends. You don't have to, you know, get together with people, you know, it's okay to just have a couple people here and there if that's how you,
Teri (48:08.813)
Yeah.
Teri (48:19.627)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (48:29.069)
Mm-hmm.
The Shrink Down (48:34.272)
you end up finding yourself. So I think that's important to realize that you can donate a big group.
Wilhelmina (48:41.869)
I sometimes I feel like a social pariah when I'm like doing pickup. Not really, that's my own stuff, but like, I'll just be like standing there and like all the other moms are chatting or whatever. And I'm just like, especially as like Griffin's the oldest now in elementary. So like I'm doing elementary pickup with like all of these really young moms with their young kids. And I'm like, I got like one foot out. Yeah, I'm like almost out. And so, and here's the thing. It's sort of, I'm just like fine with it. Like I'm totally fine with it, which I did.
The Shrink Down (48:41.998)
Any other? Okay.
Teri (48:58.369)
Yeah.
Been there, done that. Yeah. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (49:04.152)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (49:09.506)
JUMMO!
Wilhelmina (49:10.647)
I would never, I'm like, at some point I was not fine with it. was like, aw. And now I'm like, nope, totally good. Like I am actually at a stage where I don't actually think I'm looking for new like friends. The shop is closed. It is. Like I'm not opposed if it like came knocking at my door, but I'm not like out there with binoculars looking for them. Yes. Yes. The shop is closed.
Teri (49:11.106)
Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (49:11.12)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (49:23.403)
No, shop is closed. Friend, shop is closed.
Good. Yep.
The Shrink Down (49:32.878)
You're not actively seeking. Yeah. The friend shop is closed. Do not try to friend me. Any last minute thoughts, on friend groups, mom groups? That was a good discussion.
Teri (49:34.731)
Yes. Yes.
Shop is
Wilhelmina (49:41.819)
No vacancy.
Teri (49:44.875)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (49:53.423)
I'm just always thankful. I'm always thankful for you three. Every time we talk about this, I'm like, yay.
Teri (49:56.875)
Yes, same, same.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (49:57.936)
Yes. Yes.
The Shrink Down (49:58.487)
Yes, there will always be room for our friendship. Awesome. Well, thank you for joining us today. Please join us next time on the strength down.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (50:02.724)
this group.
Teri (50:03.051)
Yes, yes.
Wilhelmina (50:03.087)
Yes, yes.