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The Relaxed Running podcast is a behind the scenes conversation with the best athletes, coaches and professionals in the world of distance running. From training, hydration and nutrition to racing and recovering, we learn from the best in the world.
Relaxed conversations which are packed with actionable takeaways to help you take your running performance up a notch. Save yourself years of guess work and learn from the people who are doing it at the highest level.
[Tyson]: Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming
on. It's actually, it's been a little while
[Tyson]: I was reflecting the other day on some
of the athletes that I used to run around with
[Tyson]: here in Ballarat. And one of the Aussies
that I reckon you might have run against a
[Tyson]: few times is a friend of mine by the
name of Collis Birmingham,
[Ben]: Yep.
[Tyson]: who he was on the international scene.
And I thought I just jumped across to have
[Tyson]: a little freshen up on some of your
PBs last night. And I noticed that your profile
[Tyson]: picture with World Athletics. is you
leading Coles at the 2013
[Ben]: Hehehehe
[Tyson]: World Cross Country Championships.
But that's gone back a few years, man. What's
[Tyson]: new is
[Ben]: Yeah, I used
[Tyson]: that...
[Ben]: to roll with him and Benny Saint as well.
Yeah.
[Tyson]: Oh, two of the two of the best blokes
going around Benny St. Lawrence is a fantastic
[Tyson]: fellow. He was a big inspiration of
mine actually, cause I was a, a little bit
[Tyson]: of a later developer in the world of
athletics and
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: he started relatively young and then
left the sport and got fat for a couple
[Ben]: Yeah,
[Tyson]: of years
[Ben]: he has a great story.
[Tyson]: and then came back and just started
absolutely ripping it up at about like age
[Tyson]: 25 or 26. And once I saw him tearing
it up at 25 or 26, I thought, okay, don't hang
[Tyson]: up the spikes just yet. Oh. I'll give
it a few
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: more years, but yeah, that's going
back, man. So were there any other Aussies?
[Tyson]: Did you race much against Motrum or
was he sort of phasing out as you were peaking?
[Ben]: No, I mean, I definitely raced him, but
he was phasing out by the time I was coming
[Ben]: up. But I do remember he and I raced,
we went one, two in a battle in Crystal Palace
[Ben]: many, many years ago.
[Tyson]: I didn't realize the stature that you
reached with some of your times. Like if I
[Tyson]: had of guessed, I thought you were
sort of a 13, 15 man. And then last night as
[Tyson]: I was reading through the world athletics
profile, I thought, I've cut him off well and
[Tyson]: truly.
[Ben]: Hehehehe
[Tyson]: So 1302, a couple of the Diamond League
or Crystal Palace victories,
[Ben]: Yep, yep,
[Tyson]: if I'm not wrong. So
[Ben]: yeah.
[Tyson]: what was your, you were kind of 5,000
meters at the end of it. That was probably
[Tyson]: between five and 10. Like I saw 27,
16 bloody good as well. But I was trying to
[Tyson]: weigh up which one I thought was better.
But they're both, I mean 1302 sounds
[Ben]: Well,
[Tyson]: pretty
[Ben]: so the
[Tyson]: good.
[Ben]: third unit too was pre-Super Shoes, right?
The 10K was after the Super Shoes, the fancy
[Ben]: spikes came around. So, you know, the
5K is probably a little bit better. Ha ha ha.
[Tyson]: I did like 1302, but you're right,
it's amazing actually that you mentioned that,
[Tyson]: because I'd had, despite being involved
in coaching and this podcast now for nearly
[Tyson]: four years, one thing that blew my
mind as I've started to get ready for, long
[Tyson]: story short, I was trying to prepare
for the Melbourne Marathon this year, but I
[Tyson]: missed an entry that I'm not gonna
abort the audience with all the details, because
[Tyson]: they've heard me bitch about it too
many times. One of the things that blew my
[Tyson]: mind was just how much the technology
in that shoe department has just increased
[Tyson]: over the last few years. Like I went
into a shoe shop here in Victoria in Melbourne
[Tyson]: a couple of weeks ago and I looked
at the wall and I was like, I don't really
[Tyson]: know what I'm looking at anymore
[Ben]: Hehehehe
[Tyson]: because we used to have like your structured
tri-axis and I was an ASICS man like any of
[Tyson]: the GT series
[Ben]: Yep,
[Tyson]: I was pretty
[Ben]: yep.
[Tyson]: comfortable with and familiar with
back in the day. But then yet looking at that
[Tyson]: wall I was like man, it's almost I
mean, it is a field of expertise for so many
[Tyson]: people now. They've got podcasts dedicated
just to
[Ben]: Oh,
[Tyson]: breaking down.
[Ben]: it's unreal. It's unreal. The tech that's
gone in now, it's phenomenal. It'll be interesting
[Ben]: to see long term how it handles, because
I think it does, these new carbon shoes, super
[Ben]: shoes, does alter some people's gates
in a not so beneficial way. But they're so
[Ben]: much faster. And the ability to recover
is so much higher in between sessions that.
[Ben]: It's changed the game for sure.
[Tyson]: Yeah, so you're thinking maybe long-term
injuries people might face after just
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: being exposed to these shoes over the
years
[Ben]: But I mean, the trade off is, you know,
back in the day when we trained in, you know,
[Ben]: the lightest shoe possible, that was
basically nothing. There are a lot of injuries
[Ben]: from that as well. So, you know, it's
a trade off that we'll see how it happens.
[Tyson]: What were you racing in back when you
were running 1302s? What spikes were you rocking
[Tyson]: then?
[Ben]: I was with Saucony and it was the lightest,
stiffest spike I could find. It was actually
[Ben]: their 1500 meter spike. I didn't like
any of the distance spikes. I thought they
[Ben]: were too flexible and soft. And it was
very aggressive. I kept trying to get Saucony
[Ben]: to make more aggressive spikes and they
kept telling me We can't sell those that would
[Ben]: break all the, you know, the major market
for Asakini was a high school runner, college
[Ben]: runner, and they're like, we'll tear
all their Achilles. So I had to make do with
[Ben]: some of the shorter distance spikes to
be able to race.
[Tyson]: Yeah, how many years were you with
so can he for
[Ben]: I was with them for nine or 10 years.
[Tyson]: Gee, it's
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: really interesting actually, just to
see how much they're, I know you're an Essex
[Tyson]: man now, aren't you?
[Ben]: Yep.
[Tyson]: But the Salkoni, they sort of, they
tripped me out a little bit, because as I said,
[Tyson]: I stepped back into the world of running
and knew very little about the shoes. And when
[Tyson]: I was at this shop a few weeks ago,
a lady bought out their Salkoni, they're called
[Tyson]: Endorphin Shift 3.
[Ben]: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
[Tyson]: And she goes, oh, these Salkonis are
good. And I was like, I honestly didn't know
[Tyson]: that Salkoni ain't good. was the thing,
whether
[Ben]: Yeah
[Tyson]: that was marketing or what, but it
kind of tripped me out. And what was funny
[Tyson]: was I put them on and I had a little
run on the treadmill. And I said to her, I
[Tyson]: go, these feel incredible. She goes,
yeah, they've lifted their game.
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: I said, oh, that's good. Like, this
is Aussie dollars I'm talking about here. But
[Tyson]: she goes, and she goes, and value for
money, like you're not gonna do much better
[Tyson]: than this. I said, oh, how much am
I paying for that? She goes, these ones are
[Tyson]: 250. I go, come on now, like 250 bucks.
That's all can be was what you went to back
[Tyson]: in the day when you're on a budget.
[Ben]: Hehehehe
[Tyson]: But It's actually incredible, even
ASICS the last few years, it's been really
[Tyson]: impressive to see. We've got Jess Stenson
over here who rocks ASICS and there's quite
[Tyson]: a number of athletes on the international
circuit now who are rocking both of those.
[Ben]: Yeah,
[Tyson]: But back
[Ben]: so
[Tyson]: when
[Ben]: they've
[Tyson]: you were rocking.
[Ben]: come back in... 2019 is when ASICS really
started upping their game big time and getting
[Ben]: back into it and really putting a lot
of new tech and a lot of new R&D into their
[Ben]: shoes and making them something special
again. So they're doing really well.
[Tyson]: You sort of naturally just have to,
like when it's interesting when a company like
[Tyson]: Nike starts just throwing out things
like the Vaporflys, it's been incredible to
[Tyson]: watch just the response of
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: other companies. That's one thing that
I've found really interesting as well. Just
[Tyson]: before I hit record, I mentioned the
young Aussie guy, Ken Myers, who is running
[Tyson]: 333 and at 17 years old, back when
I was competing, like the fastest I've ever
[Tyson]: been was 349. And that was okay here
in the state. But they, that would win a lot
[Tyson]: of races here, but, uh, like on a local
level, but then you have a bloke like that
[Tyson]: go out and run three 33. Then there's
another New Zealand guy who stepped up to the
[Tyson]: plate and starts running around the
same time. There's a Norwegian kid who's 18
[Tyson]: running three 32. It seems it doesn't
matter if it's in sort of the, the development
[Tyson]: of technology or in the improvement
in times being run. There seems to be something
[Tyson]: in the air that when someone pushes
something to a new threshold. people tend to
[Tyson]: follow pretty quickly.
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: I can't remember the exact stat, but
I remember up until Roger Bannister broke the
[Tyson]: four minute mile, it was something
that was just never gonna be done. And I might
[Tyson]: be exaggerating here, but I wanna say
in the next couple of years, like a hundred
[Tyson]: athletes did it.
[Ben]: Yeah, no, it's crazy. I mean, it's the
psychological piece, right? As soon as a barrier
[Ben]: is broken or was deemed impossible or
hard to do, once it's done and it's been done
[Ben]: by somebody that you've raced against
in the past or is kind of like you, it makes
[Ben]: it much easier to do it, again, for anybody.
And that's the same thing. But I think also
[Ben]: in today's connected world, people just
know a lot more about training, know a lot
[Ben]: more about opportunities to race and
they're just more educated. And so at a younger
[Ben]: age, and they're able to translate that
a little bit better. I mean, I knew when I
[Ben]: was growing up, I grew up in Maine and
small state in the US, and I didn't know that
[Ben]: running existed outside of Maine. And
so, you know, my training. Once I got to my
[Ben]: first national caliber meat, I looked
up to, it was Chris Salinski. I remember him
[Ben]: saying, you know, he used to run a hundred
mile weeks in high school. And I'd go back
[Ben]: to my hotel room and add up all the miles
that I ran that week. And the biggest week
[Ben]: I've ever did was 25 miles. And like,
I never knew there's somebody could run more.
[Ben]: And so, you know, just the more you learn,
and you learn that What you don't know is out
[Ben]: there. It kind of elevates the whole
game.
[Tyson]: That's a
[Ben]: And
[Tyson]: really
[Ben]: so that's...
[Tyson]: good point man, he was a big inspiration
of mine actually where what are you 37? So
[Tyson]: you're a year older than me So we probably
admired a lot of the same
[Ben]: Yeah,
[Tyson]: athletes
[Ben]: oh yeah,
[Tyson]: growing
[Ben]: yeah.
[Tyson]: up But he was one that I like because
I thought if a bloke with quads and a torso
[Ben]: Hahaha!
[Tyson]: that big can run 2659 they're still
hoping the game because that was one thing
[Tyson]: that I was different definitely carried
around the tracks I had I had legs that were
[Tyson]: designed more for a footballer than
a middle distance runner. So
[Ben]: Hehehehe
[Tyson]: I saw him and was inspired for a different
reason, but it's a really good point. Another
[Tyson]: guy that I'd been really interested
in more recently for the same reasons that
[Tyson]: you just touched on, just the abundance
of knowledge that's out there is Jakob Ingebrigsten.
[Tyson]: Just seeing how young he was when he
started to really lay down some of the miles.
[Tyson]: I know he's got the two older brothers
who sort of paved the path before him was probably
[Tyson]: offering a bit of education on top
of whatever it was that he was learning
[Ben]: and
[Tyson]: himself.
[Ben]: perfect training
[Tyson]: But...
[Ben]: partners too.
[Tyson]: For sure, for
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: sure. What do you mean in terms of
quality of athlete?
[Ben]: Right, right.
[Tyson]: Yeah, it's been unbelievable. So as
you were growing up in Maine, when did you
[Tyson]: sort of start stepping into the world
of distance running?
[Ben]: So I started just running for fun. When
I was quite young, my dad was in a neighborhood
[Ben]: and our neighborhood was training for,
I think it was the 100th anniversary of the
[Ben]: Boston Marathon. And so they started
running and so I was like, oh my dad's running,
[Ben]: that's the cool thing to do. I want to
start doing the, you know, the rec program
[Ben]: in town and doing half-mile jogs and
stuff like that. And I quickly was shown that
[Ben]: I was quite good at it and I enjoyed
running faster than other people. So I just
[Ben]: kept at it, kept at it. But when I got
to high school, I also started cross-country
[Ben]: skiing, Noric skiing. And I really, really
loved Noric skiing. And so that was actually
[Ben]: my main focus. And so when I went to
college, I ran and I skied at college. And
[Ben]: I actually thought that I was going to
give up running and just go the Norrk ski path.
[Ben]: And something brought me back to running
post college and I ended up running instead.
[Tyson]: So it was post college that you made
the big move back?
[Ben]: Yeah, yeah. So I took a year off of when
I was in college. I decided what's the one
[Ben]: thing that I wanted to do left in my
running career and then be fine walking away
[Ben]: with never running again and focus all
of my energy into Nordic skiing. And it was
[Ben]: break the four minute mile. You know,
when you're in high school and college, like
[Ben]: that's the cool barrier. And so I was
like, all right, once I do that, I'm done.
[Ben]: And so I did that and I was like, I'm
done hanging up the spikes. I took a year off
[Ben]: from college and I went out to Idaho
and joined a professional ski group out there
[Ben]: and was like, I'm going to be a skier
now. But it was the first time I've ever trained
[Ben]: at altitude and I kind of went gung-ho
into the training a little bit too much. I
[Ben]: really upped the volume and the intensity
and I kind of burnt myself out. And so my ski
[Ben]: coach at the time was saying, all right.
You know, you're so far gone with fatigue and
[Ben]: over training that, um, why don't you
take, you know, a few weeks off from training
[Ben]: and just go out for, you know, 10 to
20 minute jogs every day just to get the body
[Ben]: loosened up and try to help, you know,
aid in recovery. And so I started doing that
[Ben]: and I realized how much I loved running
and how, um, easy running came to me. It seemed
[Ben]: like when I was running, I didn't have
to think. I just floated. Whereas when I skied,
[Ben]: it was something that I really enjoyed
doing, but it was something that I had to mentally
[Ben]: think about constantly. It wasn't something
that came naturally to me at all. And so I
[Ben]: made the decision, well, when I got my
energy levels back, I was like, well, I guess
[Ben]: running, if I want to take one of these
two sports to the furthest I can, running is
[Ben]: the way to go. And I became a runner.
Follower rider after that.
[Tyson]: Well, it seems like, I don't know anything,
to be honest, about skiing, but in terms of
[Tyson]: cross training, I know a lot of athletes
get on the elliptical when they're trying to
[Tyson]: save a little bit of the pressure that
they'd be putting on their joints with double
[Tyson]: runs and things like that. It seems
like a pretty nice sport that if you're flirting,
[Tyson]: on the edge
[Ben]: Oh yeah.
[Tyson]: of two sports that they complement
each other really nicely.
[Ben]: Yeah, it's a lot like cycling where you
can, there's zero impact really on the body.
[Ben]: And you can really work the cardiovascular
system really well. The one downside with Nordic
[Ben]: skiing is you'd bulk up quite a bit.
There's a lot of upper body strength that you
[Ben]: need skiing. Actually if you look at
World Cup skiers, more than 50% of the top
[Ben]: men World Cup skiers. The majority of
their power comes from the upper body from
[Ben]: the hips up is the this so they're more
arm-dominant Than leg-dominant for propelling
[Ben]: themselves forward by like a 60 40 70
30 margin is quite large The women are a little
[Ben]: bit closer the women are more like 55
45 between arms and legs but top level of Nordic
[Ben]: skiing is very arm-dominant and Me as
a runner, I just never got my arms are strong
[Ben]: enough to really hang with them.
[Tyson]: Yeah, it's so interesting. So obviously
when I think of cycling as an alternative to
[Tyson]: running, the thing that puts me off
there is just the amount of time and the amount
[Tyson]: of miles,
[Ben]: Oh yeah.
[Tyson]: and probably cars just flying past
you. But in terms of the Nordic skiing, is
[Tyson]: the training fairly comparable in terms
of time to what it is with running? Like how
[Tyson]: do you structure the
[Ben]: I
[Tyson]: weeks
[Ben]: do
[Tyson]: with
[Ben]: more.
[Tyson]: the skiing?
[Ben]: I do more. So when I was really into
it in college, you know, my OD, my over distance
[Ben]: would be a five hour ski. And
[Tyson]: Oh wow.
[Ben]: a typical training session would be 90
minutes to 150
[Ben]: minutes to like two and a half hours.
And so you can do a lot more volume. Yeah,
[Ben]: for sure.
[Tyson]: just based on the fact that you're
not putting so much pressure through the joints.
[Ben]: You're right, exactly, exactly.
[Tyson]: Man, that's really interesting. So
you're obviously at college. Yeah, it's not
[Tyson]: like you're an incredibly late developer.
Like at that time, to be breaking a four minute
[Tyson]: mile at what? You would have been 21,
22, maybe even younger.
[Ben]: It was my third year, my junior year,
so probably 2021.
[Tyson]: And what did your training look like
at the time? Because it's really interesting
[Tyson]: to hear that even...
[Ben]: Mostly
[Tyson]: Ha ha
[Ben]: Nordic skiing.
[Tyson]: ha!
[Ben]: So how I would break up the year is that,
[Tyson]: Ha
[Ben]: you
[Tyson]: ha.
[Ben]: know, in the fall would be cross country
season for running. And I'd do that fully.
[Ben]: And then NCAAs was always the Monday
before Thanksgiving. So late November. And
[Ben]: I'd race NCAA cross, hop on a plane.
and fly to Montana where I do my first ski
[Ben]: race the day before Thanksgiving, like
three or four days later. Having no time on
[Ben]: snow, having no time, I just go right
from cross-country, running to cross-country
[Ben]: skiing, ski the whole winter, and I'd
start off not being very good skier, obviously,
[Ben]: and then start getting better and better
throughout the season, more time I was skiing,
[Ben]: and then immediately switch at the end.
to going back to running. So I like very segmented
[Ben]: my year and focused strictly on each
one. So when I ran, you know, when I'd run
[Ben]: fast times on the track, I never ran
in college, probably how fast I should have
[Ben]: run, but it would always be, you know,
within two months of first run of the year
[Ben]: for a while from coming off of ski season.
[Tyson]: Gee,
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: so coming back off the ski season onto
the track season, I know you said your arms
[Tyson]: never really took off like a Nordic
ski should have, but surely you're packing
[Tyson]: a little bit on
[Ben]: Oh
[Tyson]: the start
[Ben]: yeah,
[Tyson]: line compared to some of those other
runners.
[Ben]: yeah. So typically I remember, in cross
I would typically for running I'd typically
[Ben]: be like 165 pounds and then I'd gain
20 pounds throughout the winter to bulk up
[Ben]: and then by track I may have been able
to lose 10 pounds. I may have been like high
[Ben]: 170s and then take all summer to shed
the weight back. and then just start it back
[Ben]: over again.
[Tyson]: have been so frustrating for your college
coaches was it to see
[Ben]: Yeah, I'm sure.
[Tyson]: the potential that you had and the
fact you run in four-minute miles at 20 and
[Tyson]: to be leaning towards skiing. What
do you think it was like you just felt like
[Tyson]: the appeal of running at that time
wasn't there?
[Ben]: Yeah, it was always a love-hate relationship
with running growing up. It was always something
[Ben]: that other people told me I was really
good at. And I knew that I was good at because
[Ben]: I was winning races, right? But it was
more I was doing it because other people told
[Ben]: me I should do it. Whereas skiing was
something I did because I really enjoyed it.
[Ben]: So skiing was for me and running was
for other people. And it wasn't until I stepped
[Ben]: back from running and said, I'm not running
again. that I was able to shed that aspect
[Ben]: of it and shed that I was no longer doing
it for other people, but now I was doing it
[Ben]: for my own goals and my own desires.
And that was the only way that I was able to
[Ben]: pick running back.
[Tyson]: Yeah, so Maine, I've never been to
Maine, but is it the one, is it a couple of
[Tyson]: hours or outside of New York? Like
you mentioned Boston was relatively close before
[Tyson]: as well,
[Ben]: Yeah,
[Tyson]: so.
[Ben]: so I grew up about two hours, I grew
up in southern Maine, so it was about two hours
[Ben]: north of Boston.
[Tyson]: Oh, sure. Okay,
[Ben]: Yep.
[Tyson]: so there, yeah, cause just the introduction
[Ben]: Most people
[Tyson]: to.
[Ben]: call it Canada, but you know, it's Maine.
Hehehehe.
[Tyson]: Yeah, okay. What you're trying to avoid
that title or is
[Ben]: Yeah!
[Tyson]: it a... or is it actually a little
conjecture as to where it is?
[Ben]: No, I mean, Maine was basically surrounded
by Canada. But yeah, no, we're...
[Tyson]: Yeah, I would, I would claim, I would
claim American over Canada
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: as well. I'm so sorry to all our Canadian
listeners. It's just a little bit of a soft
[Tyson]: spot in my heart for the U S. So, uh,
okay. So there came a point where for you,
[Tyson]: like you got lured back into the world
of running and then from there, how old were
[Tyson]: you when you decided, okay, well, I'm,
I'm back, this is going to be my focus now.
[Ben]: So I graduated from college in 2009 and
went out to the Oregon Track Club out in Eugene
[Ben]: immediately and ran for them for a year.
Realized I hated being on the west coast and
[Ben]: it just wasn't the scenario for me and
moved back to my college town, originally to
[Ben]: train by myself. and do it my own, but
luckily a little group formed out there and
[Ben]: I've been in Hanover, New Hampshire ever
since.
[Tyson]: Gee, so what was it about the west
side that you didn't enjoy?
[Ben]: I don't know. I think I'm just a New
Englander through and through. I'm a homeboy.
[Ben]: And so I really like, you know, the Maine,
New Hampshire, Vermont, New England area. And
[Ben]: the West Coast was just too different
for me. Eugene, Oregon was too big of a city.
[Ben]: For example, I lived right next to the
University of Oregon's football stadium. And
[Ben]: the football stadium could hold more
people than the entire city of Portland, Maine,
[Ben]: which is the largest city in Maine. And
I just couldn't deal with so many people around
[Ben]: me. And so I had to get out of there.
[Tyson]: Well, it blows my mind about the US
college system, like here in, or university
[Tyson]: college in Australia. I mean, we've
got our sporting competitions, but mate, like
[Tyson]: good luck trying to fill up a basketball
stadium, let alone a football stadium with
[Ben]: Uh...
[Tyson]: fans for college sport. It really blows
my mind. I actually, I went to Eugene, my brother-in-law
[Tyson]: lives in, in a place called Medford
in Oregon. He married an American girl. So
[Tyson]: the Americans won one of, from us.
And we've been over there quite a few times
[Tyson]: just to catch up with him. And I know
what you mean. It was the old, actually it
[Tyson]: wasn't the football stadium we saw.
We went and saw Hayward Field before they had
[Tyson]: done
[Ben]: Oh yeah.
[Tyson]: it all up.
[Ben]: Yep.
[Tyson]: And I kind of fell in love with it
because obviously, as you can see here, I'm
[Tyson]: like, I'm such
[Ben]: Yep.
[Tyson]: a, like anyone our age, I'm sure, or
anyone in the running world. There was a little
[Tyson]: bit of an allure of pre-fontaine back
in the day. So to go there and see the sights,
[Tyson]: I kind of fell in love with it. But
obviously it's, I mean, probably the weather
[Tyson]: in Australia is a little more. comparable
to the west coast of America than going from
[Tyson]: the east coast of America
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: to the west coast. So at least that
part I had on side. But there were some good
[Tyson]: athletes training around then. I think
I've completely blanked on his name, but we
[Tyson]: had an 800 meter runner, Lockie, something
that was training in Oregon back in the day.
[Tyson]: I think he was like a 145 man. He went
to Oregon. I don't know if that rings any bells.
[Ben]: Yeah, so Nick Simmons was there when
I was there
[Tyson]: Yes.
[Ben]: for the year. And he was the other big
800 meter runner. Christian Smith was there.
[Tyson]: Mm-hmm.
[Ben]: He and. I think those were like the two
big 1800 meter guys.
[Tyson]: Yeah.
[Ben]: They were there when I was there, yeah.
[Tyson]: And was Jordan, Jordan Hussey and that
[Ben]: She was
[Tyson]: kinda...
[Ben]: after.
[Tyson]: Oh,
[Ben]: So she was,
[Tyson]: okay.
[Ben]: she may have been in university at the
U of O at that time,
[Tyson]: Yep.
[Ben]: but she wasn't part of the Oregon Track
Club or anything like that.
[Tyson]: Yeah.
[Ben]: Yep.
[Tyson]: What was the track club like? Cause
from Australia, I look at the idea of Oregon
[Tyson]: Track Club and think, mate, that's
the dream. Like
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: if I was running faster, I would have,
and got any offers, I would have been there
[Tyson]: with you, but unfortunately I wasn't
running a sub four minute mile and I was no
[Tyson]: good at skiing. So I was
[Ben]: Hehehehe
[Tyson]: limited for options. But in terms of
culture, so was that back in the day, was that
[Tyson]: Salazar looking after you guys?
[Ben]: No, so that was Mark Rowland.
[Tyson]: That's right. Yep.
[Ben]: It was like his first year or his second
year of coaching was when I was there. And
[Ben]: so Frank Gagliano was the outgoing coach
and he was the one that recruited me. And then
[Ben]: Mark Rowland was there. And I really
enjoyed Mark Rowland. He was going from a program
[Ben]: Oregon track of the time was 20 plus
athletes. And so I never worked with Mark Rowland
[Ben]: on a day-to-day basis. It was like assistance
coaches that would work with me. And I don't
[Ben]: know. We just kind of, the group that
I was training with kind of felt like we were
[Ben]: kind of tossed aside and kind of forgotten
about. And so made some great friends, guys
[Ben]: that I was training with. But it was.
didn't feel like a full cohesive team. It was
[Ben]: very partial doubt teams, kind of squads
that trained together. And so it wasn't the
[Ben]: same atmosphere that I was looking for.
[Tyson]: Sure. And do you mean it was separated
based on how coaches perceived talent at the
[Tyson]: time? So they had a certain level of
athlete that was like, okay, this athlete's
[Tyson]: going somewhere, this athlete's maybe
not there yet?
[Ben]: Probably a bit of that and probably a
bit of, I mean between that and distance, like
[Ben]: what event you would be doing. But the
focus was definitely on Lauren Fleshman who
[Ben]: was there at the time, Sally Kipiego
who was there, and Nick Simmons. Those were
[Ben]: like the people that, you know, Mark
Rowland really had focus on and everybody else
[Ben]: kind of. was doing their own thing off
the side. Ha ha
[Tyson]: Yeah,
[Ben]: ha.
[Tyson]: yeah. It's very strange that, I don't
know, it's not just limited to running. I used
[Tyson]: to experience that from time to time.
Not even on purpose and not even in a negative
[Tyson]: way, but there'd be certain groups
that I would train with and I was like, oh
[Tyson]: man, I've been here for a while now
and I still feel like I'm in the outskirts.
[Tyson]: I just can't
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: quite connect with this group and I
could never figure out whether it was a talent
[Tyson]: thing or whether it was just a time
involved in the group and I'm sure. you know,
[Tyson]: there was a number of things, perhaps
it was just the fact that they didn't like
[Tyson]: my personality.
[Ben]: Hehehehe
[Tyson]: I never wanted to look at that one.
Yeah, it's
[Ben]: But
[Tyson]: interesting.
[Ben]: I know that right after I left, when
I left, there was quite a few people who left
[Ben]: the program at the same time, and so
it went from a group that was like 20 plus
[Ben]: people down to 15, 10, 15, and I heard
that things smoothed out a lot more when there
[Ben]: was less people. So I think it was, one
of the situations was, Roland came into a program
[Ben]: that was much larger than he really wanted
it to be. Yeah.
[Tyson]: Sure, yeah, well that's the reason.
I only ever really take on 10 athletes at a
[Tyson]: max at a time and it's for that reason.
Like obviously
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: the beauty of the internet is the fact
that you can coach people in all different
[Tyson]: areas. But one of the things that I
find, if I start spreading out my energy too
[Tyson]: thin with too many athletes, that is
something that definitely creeps in. You start
[Tyson]: feeling like, oh crap,
[Ben]: Mm-hmm.
[Tyson]: I haven't spoken to whoever it is for
a week or so now, I better get in touch. And
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: yeah, I definitely find that, I sympathise
with him in that department because it... It
[Tyson]: doesn't take much for your energy just
to be spread too thin. Yeah. You sound like
[Tyson]: a kind of athlete as well, who just
enjoys your own company. Like from, from what
[Tyson]: you've said, yeah. Do you, did you
enjoy getting out there and doing a lot of
[Tyson]: the training by yourself?
[Ben]: Yeah, I mean, I majority of my career
are trained by myself. I mean, other than a
[Ben]: period of time for one year that Sam
Chalanga trained with me, I trained completely
[Ben]: solo until the very end, most recently
when I hired a training partner to move out
[Ben]: and start training with me. So the vast
majority, 95% of my career, running everything
[Ben]: by myself. A very lucky day would be
somebody would be at the track holding a stopwatch
[Ben]: for me. That would be like a prime day.
But it was mostly just me doing my thing by
[Ben]: myself. And there's aspects that I enjoyed
of that. The biggest thing is, you know, going
[Ben]: out for an easy run. I can run exactly
how my body wanted to. I could run the time
[Ben]: of day I wanted to. I'm sorry, I could
sleep in and still get my double in, but just
[Ben]: spread them out a little bit different.
And the biggest thing was just I could run
[Ben]: as slow or as fast as I wanted to an
easy day. Most of my workouts were more tempo
[Ben]: threshold based. And those, again, are
more feel than prescribed pace. And so I think
[Ben]: that I was much better at being able
to find that effort and not get pushed to go
[Ben]: too hard or held back to go too. too
slow, I could run that level very well. But
[Ben]: the times I did train with other people,
it was so much easier. I could run so many
[Ben]: more harder workouts, and those were
when my best times came, was off the back of
[Ben]: training with other people. So I don't
think I ever reached the level that I could
[Ben]: have had I trained with training partners
the entire time throughout my career. But I
[Ben]: knew after I moved out to Eugene and
spent a year out in Eugene, because that's
[Ben]: where people told me that I had to go
if I wanted to be a professional athlete. I
[Ben]: had, where do you go? You go to Eugene.
Where do you, who do you join? You join the
[Ben]: Oregon Track Club. And I realized that
wasn't the path for me. And so when I did move
[Ben]: back to the East Coast, I made a firm
pact that I was going to do my training for
[Ben]: me and what made me happy. And for me,
being happy was being here and being happy
[Ben]: with my life outside of running. As long
as that is fine, then I can make the running
[Ben]: work.
[Ben]: I wasn't willing to compromise my life
outside of the sport to try to find that extra
[Ben]: edge. And I think... there's no way that
my career would have been as long as it is
[Ben]: has been if I went a different route.
[Tyson]: Yeah, it's really interesting that
you mentioned that back when you were younger,
[Tyson]: you were told that if you wanted to
be a professional athlete, that's where you
[Tyson]: need to go. And I mentioned it, I was
serious before when I said if I was good enough,
[Tyson]: I would have probably
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: like tried to get into Oregon. It's
a very similar story here. Like I know there's
[Tyson]: a number of other colleges around America
that has a really good college system that
[Tyson]: a number of Aussies have gone to and
plenty of Americans run it. But I wonder how
[Tyson]: much that has to do with, to go back
to your original point about the internet and
[Tyson]: just being aware of all the groups
out there and especially in America. I mean,
[Tyson]: here in Australia, we've got a number
of great, like really, really good groups,
[Tyson]: both community level, professional
level, some combining both of those. But to
[Tyson]: look at the states at the moment, and
I mean, I put you in this category now with
[Tyson]: what you've started, I'm interested
to hear more about that. But I mean, from Tin
[Tyson]: Man Elite to a number of the groups
all around the country, it seems as though
[Tyson]: I mean, Oregon's one of many options
now.
[Ben]: Yeah, it is one of many options, but
where are all the options, right? They're all
[Ben]: clustered in certain spots. And so it's
still, if you're a runner in the United States
[Ben]: and you want to go somewhere, where do
you go? You have to go to Boulder, you go to
[Ben]: Flagstaff. Those are really, or you go
to Oregon, right? Those are like the three
[Ben]: options. And so a lot of that is social
media driven. A lot of that is, you know, driven
[Ben]: because one group has some success and
then it's deemed everybody has to go there
[Ben]: to have success. I'm a firm believer
that if it works for one person, doesn't necessarily
[Ben]: mean it's going to work for you. You've
got to find out what works for you. And so
[Ben]: that's one of the reasons why I've been
trying to really start up this Northwest Athletics
[Ben]: group where showing there is other options
and you can make options and opportunities
[Ben]: for yourself in other places. You don't
have to go to these places just because...
[Ben]: that's where people say you have to go.
You should go to a place because you actually
[Ben]: want to be there and you want to live
there and you like the lifestyle there. And
[Ben]: so for me, that's New England. I love
New England. I think that there's better training
[Ben]: here than anywhere else in the United
States. And so it's a shame that people don't
[Ben]: know much about these other training
venues that are out there. And I'm sure there's
[Ben]: many of them throughout the country that
are way overlooked. that could be phenomenal
[Ben]: training groups. They said there, but
everybody just gets on this bandwagon that
[Ben]: you have to go to Boulder, you have to
go to Flagstaff. And I've always shunned that
[Ben]: idea that you know, you can go where
you want to go.
[Tyson]: Yeah, it's true. We were laughing on
here a while ago. I think I was speaking to
[Tyson]: him about it, Pat Tynan.
[Ben]: Yep.
[Tyson]: I'm gonna, I can't remember. You might
know better than me. Do you know where he's
[Tyson]: based right now? I want to say it's
like North Carolina.
[Ben]: Yeah, I think so. I think the Durham-Raleigh
Triangle area there. Yeah, North Carolina.
[Tyson]: See, I thought that was where you went
if you wanted to be Michael Jordan, but apparently
[Ben]: Hehehehe
[Tyson]: there's a number of athletes starting
to get a bit of a reputation there. And I mean,
[Tyson]: he's packed in and moves there. He's
a 2'11 man on debut, a 2'7'20
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: man or whatever. I mean, it speaks
volumes as to the fact that, or to emphasize
[Tyson]: your point, that there's more than
one option now. But I'm interested to hear
[Tyson]: more about your sort of move back east,
because it must have been. not humbling, but
[Tyson]: it would have been a challenge at a
younger age like that to be told, okay, you
[Tyson]: want to be professional, go here, do
this, and then getting there and being a little
[Tyson]: disenfranchised or disconnected from,
you know, the group or whatever you thought
[Tyson]: it was that was going to be, just didn't
quite live up to the expectations. Was it hard
[Tyson]: to go back to the East coast? Had you
sort of decided at that point, um, that you
[Tyson]: were, you were happy just to train
by yourself or were you thinking, Oh, get a
[Tyson]: coach or were you sort of, I know you
said a lot of your training was by yourself,
[Tyson]: but were you self-coached as well?
[Ben]: So when I went back, I made a decision
that I was going to go back thinking that I'd
[Ben]: just go back and train by myself. But
serendipitously, there was a new track program
[Ben]: that started in Hanover, New Hampshire,
where I moved back to, or I went to college,
[Ben]: starting up right when I left. And it
was coached by Tim Breaux. And so I did that.
[Ben]: That was phenomenal for...
[Tyson]: Oh, that's a name I haven't heard of
for a while.
[Ben]: I
[Tyson]: He was
[Ben]: know.
[Tyson]: a steeplechaser, wasn't
[Ben]: Yeah,
[Tyson]: he?
[Ben]: exactly, exactly.
[Tyson]: Dude,
[Ben]: Yep.
[Tyson]: sorry to interrupt, they just rang
a bell. I was like, I know that name. Yeah,
[Tyson]: he was a wild
[Ben]: Yeah,
[Tyson]: man. I loved him.
[Ben]: yeah. And so that was great. But that
fizzled out very quickly. That was only around
[Ben]: for just under two years, I want to say.
And so after that, I was fully on my own. And
[Ben]: I trained under Tim Browse still for
a few years. And then started working with
[Ben]: Mark Coogan, who was the Dartmouth coach
at the time, the Dartmouth women's coach, and
[Ben]: trained with him for a while. And then
he had a conflict of interest contractually
[Ben]: with New Balance once he left Dartmouth
and was no longer able to work with me. And
[Ben]: so I did some coaching, self-coaching
myself, went back with Tim Breaux for a bit,
[Ben]: self-coached some more, and then worked
with Ray Tracy out of Providence.
[Tyson]: Mm-hmm.
[Ben]: Yep.
[Tyson]: Yeah, yeah. And how much did your training
vary from that point? I know your career sort
[Tyson]: of spans quite a number of years, so
I could be a little bit more specific, but
[Tyson]: when you were running your fastest
times, and I hope they were around the same
[Tyson]: time, like your 27-14 and your 13-02,
like...
[Ben]: No, those were a long time apart. Ha
ha
[Tyson]: Well,
[Ben]: ha.
[Tyson]: that's actually, I mean, that could
be, that could actually make this conversation
[Tyson]: more interesting. How,
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: do you know the years
[Ben]: Those
[Tyson]: of
[Ben]: are
[Tyson]: difference
[Ben]: eight years
[Tyson]: between,
[Ben]: apart, maybe
[Tyson]: wow. Okay,
[Ben]: nine,
[Tyson]: so
[Ben]: ten
[Tyson]: what
[Ben]: years
[Tyson]: did
[Ben]: apart,
[Tyson]: you run
[Ben]: maybe.
[Tyson]: first? Wow.
[Ben]: So the five K first.
[Tyson]: Okay.
[Ben]: Yep. And that I was working with Mark
Kugin then. And that's when I was training
[Ben]: with Sam Jelenga. And, yep. And then
the 2714 was just a few years ago when I was
[Ben]: working with Ray Tracy and I had training
partner that I hired, Dan Kurtz, who's still
[Ben]: in the area running with me.
[Tyson]: Awesome. How different was your training
in between those two
[Ben]: Quite
[Tyson]: PBs?
[Ben]: a bit different. Yeah.
[Tyson]: Yeah, I don't know. I could be testing
your memory going back a decade, but what did
[Tyson]: your weekly structure look like when
you ran your 1302 in terms of how did you divide
[Tyson]: up the miles and the speed
[Ben]: Yeah,
[Tyson]: and things?
[Ben]: so let's see if I can remember correctly.
It was a lot of, so Kukin had me on the standard
[Ben]: week schedule in calendar week schedule
of the universities, where you typically Monday
[Ben]: easy, Tuesday workout, Wednesday slightly
longer run, Thursday easy, Friday workout,
[Ben]: Saturday easy, Sunday long. And that
was the plan under Kugen. Did a lot of mixed
[Ben]: workout of threshold tempo work with
speed, but a lot of high volume. And so I was
[Ben]: actually looking back at the training
under Kugen a little while ago and a typical
[Ben]: workout may be five by a K in 250. then
a 20 minute tempo, so a four mile tempo, and
[Ben]: then another five by a K in like 245.
So I would get pretty good volume, or I do
[Ben]: a 20 minute tempo, a bunch of two minute
hill reps, and then another 20 minute tempo.
[Ben]: There's a lot of tempo stuff with some
speed around on the sides, but most workouts
[Ben]: would be eight, to 11 miles of volume
in the workout, and then you'll warm up and
[Ben]: cool down.
[Tyson]: Gee.
[Ben]: Rarely did anything especially fast,
rarely did anything that was, you know, 5K
[Ben]: race pace. Those were very few and far
between.
[Tyson]: Yeah.
[Ben]: And so it was a different, and then long
runs every weekend would be, you know, 18 to
[Ben]: 20 miles and running six minute pace.
So, not hard, hard long runs, but moving long
[Ben]: runs. Whereas, with Ray Tracy, he spreads
everything out a little bit more and it's more
[Ben]: of like a 10-day cycle. And so, the mileage
was a lot higher. I was probably running an
[Ben]: additional 20 miles a week, rolling seven
day. And the workouts were faster.
[Tyson]: Huh.
[Ben]: And so a workout under Tracy leading
up would be,
[Ben]: what would be one, 10 times 600 meters
in 131, and then a few 300s quick afterwards.
[Ben]: Or he did a lot of...
[Ben]: He liked the two by 20 minute tempos
a lot and he liked a lot of mile and a half
[Ben]: repeats. And so it was a different, it
was a more grinding without question. Ray Tracy
[Ben]: was a lot more grinding of a workout
whereas Kugin was a lot of bopping around between
[Ben]: run fast, run fairly relaxed, run fast.
[Tyson]: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting that even
the earlier one, it still sounds like you were
[Tyson]: covering quite a few miles. Like I
know you said,
[Ben]: Oh yeah.
[Tyson]: sorry, I've got the coach's names muddled
up. I can't remember which one was before and
[Tyson]: which one was after, but the earlier
one sounded like you
[Ben]: Kugen.
[Tyson]: were still ticking off,
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: that Coogan, you're still ticking off
quite a few miles.
[Ben]: Oh yeah.
[Tyson]: And I love the fact that you were saying
you weren't doing anything too incredibly fast.
[Tyson]: There'd be so many audience members
discuss it at you. that you mentioned the second
[Tyson]: set of five by a K were two 45s.
[Ben]: Eh. Heh heh heh.
[Tyson]: But I guess it's all in context of
the times that you were running. But
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: yeah, so on a weekly sort of rolling
average, what were you doing in terms of miles
[Tyson]: with Kugen in
[Ben]: So
[Tyson]: comparison?
[Ben]: Kugen would probably be closer to 90
to 95, probably average-wise. And under Ray
[Ben]: Tracy, it would be 115 to 120.
[Tyson]: So what's that 860? Oh, so close to
200 kilometers, or I don't know if you know
[Tyson]: your metric system well, but I think,
is that right? 160K is 100 miles. Sorry, 100
[Tyson]: miles is 160K, yeah. Oh, so you were,
man, that's, like in terms of going back to
[Tyson]: the time consumption element, that's
where the Nordic skiers gotta come at in you,
[Tyson]: because
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: that's a huge time commitment. So in
terms of doubles and things like that, what
[Tyson]: would you be doing for your double
[Ben]: I mean,
[Tyson]: runs?
[Ben]: I double all the time.
[Tyson]: Yeah.
[Ben]: Like a 12.5, 12 miles in the morning,
five in the afternoon was a standard easy day.
[Tyson]: Yes.
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: That's unbelievable. And did you feel
like your body, well obviously it was responding
[Tyson]: well in the sense that you ran fast
off that, but was that something you were able
[Tyson]: to maintain for a long time?
[Ben]: Um, I was with Ray for maybe five years,
I want to
[Tyson]: Gee.
[Ben]: say. Um, but doing race training solo
was very challenging.
[Tyson]: I'm not sure if you can hear
[Ben]: And so, uh, I was getting burnt out,
um, at the end, um, doing, doing that training
[Ben]: solo,
[Tyson]: me.
[Ben]: uh, doing it with other people was fine.
Like when I had Dan Kurtz as a training partner,
[Ben]: um, It was fine, but doing that work
solo was very challenging. Because Kugen's
[Ben]: workouts were so much more change of
speed, mentally it's a lot easier to do that
[Ben]: by yourself. Because even if you're tired,
you can go and hop out and do a 20 minute tempo
[Ben]: by yourself and still getting good work.
And all the fast stuff was quite short in duration.
[Ben]: Um, Ray Tracy loved the workout where
you have to grind one extra lap on the track
[Ben]: than you actually want to. And it makes
you very tough and it makes you very strong,
[Ben]: no doubt. Um, he's had great success
and, and I ran well under him, but that's hard
[Ben]: to do solo. And, and when I had training
partners that helped me through majority of
[Ben]: the workouts, um, Ray Tracy's workouts
were much more manageable and fun. But not
[Ben]: as much, completely, it's all of them.
[Tyson]: Yeah, did your body hold up well in
terms of injury? It sounds like just the fact
[Tyson]: that you've ran so fast and been able
to endure so much of this just long mileage
[Tyson]: style training, or at least from my
perspective it sounds very long miles, that
[Tyson]: you were naturally a pretty strong
guy. Did you struggle with injuries at all
[Tyson]: or did you get away with it pretty
easily?
[Ben]: I've gotten very lucky in not having
many injuries that actually take me out. But,
[Ben]: I mean, I'm a runner so I never, I don't
think I ever had a week where I wasn't in pain
[Ben]: running. And, you know, most mornings
I wouldn't be able to, doing the track workouts,
[Ben]: I wouldn't be able to, you know, walk
to the bathroom in the morning normally. I'd
[Ben]: be hobbling
[Tyson]: Hehehehehehe
[Ben]: about. It'd take me a while to warm up.
And it wasn't until I did my first marathon
[Ben]: build with Ray that the paces came way
down slower, right? And the mileage went up
[Ben]: even more, but the body responded to
that even more. And that could just been from
[Ben]: age. But that's when I stopped being
in so much pain all the time, is when we kind
[Ben]: of got off the track and started doing
a little bit more longer distance training.
[Tyson]: Yeah, and what do you got your eyes
on at the moment? Are you still ironing off
[Tyson]: some good marathons?
[Ben]: Ah, we'll see. So, currently nothing's
on the schedule. I raced Boston this past spring,
[Ben]: it went terribly. Oh
[Tyson]: I didn't see. You don't have to tell
[Ben]: yeah.
[Tyson]: me, but what went wrong there?
[Ben]: Oh, who knows?
[Tyson]: Ha ha ha.
[Ben]: It was one of those ones where you start
the start and you get about a mile in and you
[Ben]: know right from there it's gonna be a
very long
[Tyson]: Ugh.
[Ben]: day. It almost felt like the only way
I can describe it to myself is I went in with
[Ben]: the gas tank half full. I never felt
like I... And it wasn't that I was not eating
[Ben]: well leading in or tapered down. I did
both of those, but it just didn't feel like
[Ben]: I was fully energized right from the
start and it was a very long slog. I think
[Ben]: I ran 216, 217. But it was quite brutal
and I was so burnt out that I'm just now getting
[Ben]: back into resemblance of training.
[Tyson]: Yeah.
[Ben]: I've been exercising, I've been running
60 to 80 miles a week, but just now is when
[Ben]: I'm starting to feel life back in my
body.
[Tyson]: I know you mentioned the finish time,
but even though you felt so average Did you
[Tyson]: still go out at a pace like we what
did you go through half in?
[Ben]: Oh no, I was out by then. In Boston by,
what is it, seven miles? I was like, I'm full
[Ben]: on bonked. I'm not going to make it to
the finish line. Yeah,
[Tyson]: That's it.
[Ben]: it was a rough, rough race. Yeah.
[Tyson]: What have you run for a marathon?
[Ben]: I raced, that was my second marathon.
I raced New York City as my debut And would
[Ben]: we run there? I don't know, 212 I think
or something
[Tyson]: Oh,
[Ben]: like
[Tyson]: wow,
[Ben]: that.
[Tyson]: because not
[Ben]: I was
[Tyson]: renowned
[Ben]: seventh
[Tyson]: to be a super quick race either. It's
quite
[Ben]: No
[Tyson]: twist and turn isn't it?
[Ben]: Yeah
[Tyson]: I remember whenever an Aussie goes
over there to run, I'm like, oh, they're obviously
[Tyson]: there for, they've been paid to be
there
[Ben]: Yeah,
[Tyson]: or they're there for prize money because
[Ben]: exactly.
[Tyson]: no one's going there to break PBs are
they?
[Ben]: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
[Tyson]: So if you like, assume I mean that
I know you said you're taking it easy and exercising
[Tyson]: it 90 miles a week or whatever it was,
but
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: if you were to start targeting another
marathon, what are you? Like, have you got
[Tyson]: your eyes on next year at all in Paris?
Like, are you looking to qualify?
[Ben]: To be honest, the idea of racing the
Olympics is not something that sparks anything
[Ben]: in me.
[Tyson]: Well.
[Ben]: So I think a major marathon would be
more interesting to me than say the Olympic
[Ben]: marathon. So yeah, maybe redemption at
Boston.
[Tyson]: It's funny you say that though, because
I often look at the world of tennis and you
[Tyson]: look at the four majors that they have
in the tennis world. Like a Wimbledon means
[Tyson]: so much more to a tennis player than
an Olympic title. And I don't know that you
[Tyson]: can make that comparison directly with
distance running. But I think, like if it's
[Tyson]: a Berlin marathon or a London marathon,
it'd be interesting to speak to a number of
[Tyson]: athletes about, I mean, you can't really
get past the childhood dream of the Olympics
[Tyson]: for a lot of people,
[Ben]: No,
[Tyson]: but.
[Ben]: but financially, a world marathon major
victory is a whole lot more lucrative
[Tyson]: the show.
[Ben]: than an Olympic medal for the marathon.
[Tyson]: probably true in tennis as well. I
mean,
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: they're not taking too much from an
Olympic victory comparison to sort of a Wimbledon.
[Ben]: Exactly.
[Tyson]: Nah, awesome, man. And in terms of
your coaching now, like I've been enjoying
[Tyson]: the last couple of days, having a good
look at your website and seeing what you've
[Tyson]: created
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: over there in the coaching front.
[Ben]: Oh yeah.
[Tyson]: Man, did you want to speak to that
a little bit? I'll make sure at the start of
[Tyson]: this people hear about it and I'll
have the show notes and everything linked to
[Tyson]: it for people interested. But I mean,
it'd be interesting to hear it from you what
[Tyson]: you've
[Ben]: Yeah, no. So we launched out this. It's
a club northwards athletics. And we're just
[Ben]: trying to showcase the upper valley is
what we call it, the area that we live in.
[Ben]: And we think it has some of the best
training in all of the United States. And so
[Ben]: in ideal world, we're going to try to
get kind of like an elite training center group
[Ben]: here, but also want to really emphasize
just running in general. And so a lot of community
[Ben]: outreach, we do a weekly group run in
the area. We just launched a race series through
[Ben]: Strava
[Tyson]: I saw that.
[Ben]: in the, in the, in the area. So it's
a lot of exciting and, and doing some coaching
[Ben]: as well, which has been a lot of fun.
And yeah, it's, we're trying to, trying to
[Ben]: grow it out.
[Tyson]: Who put your website together? It looks
awesome. I'm such a fan for a nice website.
[Tyson]: And I looked at
[Ben]: Oh
[Tyson]: yours,
[Ben]: yeah?
[Tyson]: and it
[Ben]: Oh
[Tyson]: looks
[Ben]: thanks.
[Tyson]: as though it's been done professionally.
And I looked at yours and thought, okay, mine
[Tyson]: needs to be touched up a little.
[Ben]: No, you're being too kind. No, that's
just us, the three of us on the team just chipping
[Ben]: away at it.
[Tyson]: You've nailed it, was it Squarespace?
[Ben]: Yeah, it's just Squarespace. Yeah.
[Tyson]: Wow, good job, I'm gonna have to go
and do some research on the template and you
[Tyson]: might see some.
[Ben]: Exactly.
[Tyson]: No, awesome man, well, hey, I won't
hold you up, but mate, thanks so much for coming
[Tyson]: on. So good to be able
[Ben]: Yeah.
[Tyson]: to pick your brain and hear a little
bit more about the story behind the results.
[Tyson]: It's, I mean, I've admired your runs
from a distance for quite a while since back
[Tyson]: in the coldest days. So it's nice to
actually get a chance to sit down and have
[Tyson]: a chat here.
[Ben]: Yeah, well thank you for having me. It's
been a pleasure. Yeah,
[Tyson]: Awesome,
[Ben]: a lot
[Tyson]: man.
[Ben]: of fun.
[Tyson]: Hey, we'll leave it there. I'll see
you later, everybody.
[Ben]: All right, thank you.
[Tyson]: Awesome, man, I'll cut that one.