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Real conversations about the stories, challenges, struggles and triumphs of Middle Tennessee's entrepreneurs, business owners and professionals. Broadcasting from the J2HQ in Thompson's Station. www.mmtbp.com
Unknown: So record, record. Here
we go. Off we go.
This is the mostly Middle
Tennessee Business Podcast, a
podcast about Middle Tennessee
business owners and
professionals, mostly. So
I got to say that the the
trades, and I've been saying
this over the past couple of
episodes, they're going to be
ripe with a lot of talent, like
good talent. Like instead of it
being a 12 to one ratio where
you have to go through 12 people
to find
the one
in the trades, I think it's
going to get down to like six or
five. You know why?
AI.
AI. Because I think a lot of
these white collar guys gonna
start looking. They're gonna
they're gonna be replaced.
Oh man!
And they're probably you know
good quality people that are
gonna get into the trades. What
do you think?
Oh man, that's that that's a big
one to open up with, Jim. Wow.
Well, I've I've done a seminar.
They called it Blue Collar AI,
and basically this guy was
great. I mean, he's been a he's
he's been a general contractor
for years, and he talked about
it being you know one of the
safest industries to be in.
Yeah,
I mean I think and I agree. Like
I think people are always going
to need their estimators.
They're always going to need
their people installing whether
it's plumbing, electrical,
eight. all those things, garage
doors, yeah, all those. Yeah,
I don't see any. I don't see
Skynet taking that anytime soon.
But I mean, who knows?
You're going to have to have a
lot of trust for robots to come
in your house and get work done,
man. We're a long ways off from
that. Could a generation or two?
You know, yeah. I think we'll
eat for some time now. I mean, I
think we had a good run too.
But that's what I've been
saying. You know, all the the
trades have been kind of
relegated to people that just,
well, hey, it's a job. I guess
I'll show up and do it. Those
types of attitudes, and it's
unfortunate because it's similar
to the even even like the car
business. You have a lot of the
majority of the workforce that's
in like the sales positions.
They do it because they need a
job. It's not a career. Trades
are the same way. And you know,
when I went to high school in
the late 80s, early 90s, the
kids who went to the trade
school were kind of like looked
down upon because you know they
couldn't hack you know college
and you know we we were so much
better than they were because
they had to go to Henry Abbott
Tech, but the funny thing is
that the laugh was on us because
as I went and worked in the
electrical trade after college
didn't work out,
one
of the guys that I worked with,
he was a great guy. Oh gosh, his
name was Tony Cordero. I know
his last name was Cordero, but
I'm not sure if his name first
name was Tony. But anyway,
sorry, guy. He talked about.
He's like, look, I didn't spend
a dime for my education, and I
am I am outperforming monetarily
and financially all of my peers
that I went to high school with.
He says, you know, because back
then he was making like 40 or 50
grand a year, and he was like,
you know, a three-year I want to
say journeyman. So at that
point,
I think that they are
get on that mic. Let's hear.
Sorry, sorry. Yeah, I mean, I
think that there are people, and
even when I was in high school,
like, I mean, I didn't really,
I, I didn't see it back then,
but um, yeah, I mean, they were
definitely ahead of the game. I
mean, uh, you know, how many of
us are debt free these days?
Right. And I mean, if it only
takes you two years and with a
minimum college fund, um, and
you can get in some sort of
trades. I mean, it doesn't just
stop there. You can open up your
own business. There's always
going to be a need for it, and I
think right now we we could be
just going in reverse here. I
mean, like yeah, like it's a
shame that like it was like you
said that the trades were looked
down upon as far as getting in a
career. I mean, like who wants
to who wants to date a plumber?
You know who wants to date like
these these guys are you know
they're I feel like that they're
ahead of the game and we're
seeing the results of it now.
Especially I mean you brought up
college.
Well, you have kids.
Yeah,
you want your kids to go to
college. Is that like you know,
a I hang my own pride and ego on
the fact that I could put a
sticker on the back of my car.
My child goes to you know that
kind of thing because I think a
lot of college these days is to
satisfy and placate the parents'
ego.
If my son wants to open up
someone's body for surgery, yes,
I want him to go to school for
that. But as far as getting a
marketing degree or going into
some sort of like I don't know,
I would probably encourage. I'll
I'll get an idea of what he
wants to do in life and see if
he can just do it without
college because it's just a. I
mean, Quentin. Santino didn't go
to. Did he go to film school? He
kind of just did everything is
on his own, right?
Well, it's funny because you and
I talked about you know self
training, you know, especially
when it comes to musical
instruments. There's there's an
element to where you you put
yourself through the you you
have the discipline to learn on
your own and pull from different
mentors and influences in
various capacities, whether it's
music, guitar, drums,
electrical, hell, even you know
the legal profession. You can
you can hang out in a law firm.
Just put me in the law library.
What do you need? I'll pull the
case law. Let's do all these
different things. Show me how
the courtroom works, all the
different processes and the
order of operations of how
things operate. If you immerse
yourself long enough in
something in a situation like
that, yeah, go ahead and take
the bar. You know what I mean?
It's if you pass the bar, you're
an attorney. I mean, there's
some states that actually I
think it's Louisiana that does
that, but why not? You're
getting real world, you know,
learn by doing type of approach.
It's not classroom, and you're
not spending a fortune to
acquire the knowledge.
And not even in your lifetime
are you going to be paying that
debt back,
right?
And I
know people that are over 100
grand in student debt. They're
never getting out from
underneath it. See, I got never.
I
got lucky. I was a bad student,
so like I I went to community
college and I didn't pay as much
as the average person, but I
just oh geez only a few years
ago I paid that off yeah wow and
the funny thing is with what you
do and for those of you
listening I know we're kind of
we we have this new format where
I don't introduce the guest
until we're about 10 minutes in
but Esteban Legarea
ooh nice
Legarea I got you. Got the
rolling arm.
Yeah, that's right.
And you got. We met a couple
years ago when we were selling a
lot more lighting and stuff like
that. We were looking for
distributors, and that's what
you do. You sell. You sell
electrical parts.
Yes.
You know that's that's not a
typical course of life that is
talked about much, like you
don't think that these parts
have to be sold. You know what I
mean. And by the way, this is
the mostly Middle Tennessee
business podcast from the It's
Your show.co studios, powered by
Muletown Bikes, right there on
the square. Yeah, we got to do
the e bike. I'm looking over
your shoulder at the camera.
Yeah, that's what I do. So,
yeah. Well, wow, it's it's
crazy. I I don't think anybody
in this industry, unless they
had like parents or people that
were that were in the industry
already. Yeah, I think people
just kind of accidentally
stumble upon it. That's what
happened to me. I spent majority
of my career, not I'm sorry, not
career. I mean, I was waiting
tables after high school and
just trying to figure my life
out. I thought I wanted to do
music. I thought I wanted to do
all these other things, and then
I got tired of waiting tables.
And somebody, an old friend of
mine, said, "Hey, I'm actually
moving away. I had this position
opening up. You know, if you
want to take my spot, I'll tell
them you're good people, and
started there. I started in the
warehouse, answering the phones
from the counter, just seeing
people walking in, getting parts
every day, and I did not know
that this was such a great
business to be in. I mean,
people need these this stuff. I
mean, I thought people just went
to Lowe's and Home Depot to get
their things. Didn't think this
was going to be a somebody could
just make a good living off of
it. I met a few salesmen, and
one you and I both know him. I
don't think. I mean, I guess
should I can I mention his name?
Sure, Mike Harris. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. I mean, he
good guy.
Oh, great! Yeah, I mean, this
was about 10 years ago, I think.
Yeah, he's he told me how much
he made in a year, and I'm like,
wow. I'm like, yeah. I maybe if
I stick with this, I can one
day.
And a lot of that, it's all.
It's not really a long sales
cycle. I would say probably a
short to medium sales cycle
because if they need the parts
and they like you, it's more
about the relationship and the
likability. Can are you
dependable? Are you going to get
it to me when I need it? I would
imagine those are the factors
that you have to kind of satisfy
in this type of role.
I mean, there's there's many
factors to it. I think getting a
meeting and getting a client
is-it's hard, but it's also just
as just as hard, if not harder,
keeping them.
Right.
I mean, because people, you
know, it's business, and it's us
being in Nashville. It's-I
mean-it's growing, and it's such
a-it's such a slip-through
industry too. So you just got to
be on top of
it.
Yeah, you got to be almost a
jealous girlfriend. You got to
every opportunity that comes
your way. You got to like ask
questions and ask for feedback.
If there's this big lighting or
gear project, you got to ask
like, "Hey, who got this? If I
didn't get it, who got it? And
how how off how how much was I
off?" So it's the only way
you'll survive in this business.
I mean,
what's the what's the process
like? Because I mean, a lot of
it these things go out to bid.
They're probably getting a lot
better of a deal going through
the distribute distribution
houses than going directly to
Home Depot or Lowe's. Home Depot
or Lowe's are kind of like last
minute. Hey, we need a couple of
outlets. We just need to go grab
something, and we upcharge a
client, and we're paying retail
on top of retail. You know that
kind of happens, but in even in
Home Depot, you're not dealing
typically with people that have
actually done the work. You
know, does that make sense? That
does make sense. Yeah, those are
typically not the partners I'd
go after. Yeah, yeah. The people
who can get their stuff, and
sometimes when I'm cold calling,
and then they say, "Well, well,
you know, we usually just swing
by Home Depot, Lowe's, or a city
electric around the corner.
Like, you know, they just just
get parts around the corner.
Then I'm like, "Okay, that's
fine. That gives me an idea that
they're not really looking for
partners, right? What I my job
is to go after people who are
already involved in the bidding
process. They know that they're
going to need X amount of wire
for this big multifamily unit
that they're starting, and I
give them the budgetary numbers.
And after they win the project,
they come back to me. He says,
"Hestaban, can you put some
money back in my pocket? I say,
"Yes.
No, it's it's it's whale
hunting.
Yeah, is what you're
doing.
Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, it is. I
didn't really, honestly, I
didn't think I could do it. I've
been doing it for going on four
and a half years now. Out like
well, account manager. I don't
like outside salesman title. It
seems kind of sleazy, but yeah,
like a used car salesman. I
don't know. I don't. I never
like that type. There, there are
good used car salespeople. Just
used car salespeople that give
other salespeople a bad name. I
sold used cars, man. I mean, I
guess really. Oh yeah, I just
worked for Mercedes. What have
we sold? We sold used cars. You
know
what have you not done, Jim?
Like I am so impressive. Like
podcaster, drummer, car
salesman,
business owner,
business business owner,
entrepreneur.
Was in the phone business for
when I first when I got out of
college. It was a family
business. I was an electrician.
I was a I was an apprentice. I
never made it to journeyman or
got formally trained. But I also
knew it wasn't what I wanted to
do with my life at that time.
And then from there, I went into
radio. So I know I was in radio
for 17 years. What was that
experience like with you being
an electrician? At the time, it
was again. I looked at it as a
job, not a career. It was great
money. The company I worked for
treated us very well. You didn't
have to go to them for raises.
They would just come to you
after, hey, you've been here for
three months. Here's a raise.
Okay, really decent company.
They were the non-union shop of
a a family-owned business that
was a union business. They were
like the Lee Company of
Connecticut. Oh, Rizzo Electric,
they handled all the state jobs,
the highways, lighting, all that
stuff. And then they had Nikon,
which was their non-union shop,
which I worked for. That did you
know whatever came down that
didn't want to use union work,
so they had best of both worlds.
They, it was cool. I mean, it
was at the time it was kind of a
dirge because I knew it wasn't
what I wanted to do. I knew that
I was I had an itch to scratch,
and I was still kind of coming
to terms of well, if it's going
to be radio or television, radio
I know doesn't pay as well as
television, and I do want to
make a good living. And
eventually, I just kind of
relented and went into radio
because as soon as I got my
palate wetted, it was like, oh,
this
is me.
I just knew it. This is I am in
my element. I worked for the
radio station, and for the first
one that I worked for, I swore
I'd never work for. But as soon
as I stepped in the broadcasting
school, this is me. I totally
get this. So that's you know,
but
I don't want to jump. I don't
want to jump ahead, but I am
very. I would like to know your
experience of being. Would you
call it? Would you and with
magnitude was it
consider yourself an OEM?
Correct.
Yeah, yeah.
What was that experience like?
Because I mean, sounds like you
were busy. Sounds like you're. I
mean, obviously you're you're
putting a lot of work into it.
Yeah. But do you think the
rewards were great? Because I
mean, Nashville, you're dealing
with a lot of big lighting
companies, and that was-I mean,
I would imagine that was very
the differentiator was the fact
that we were one of the early
adopters in the colored lighting
space with the DMX technology,
like what you see around here in
the studios. Is. Was our
lighting, and in the space even
more niche was the car wash
business and that industry. So,
making them harsh environment
proof and able to stand up to
chemicals and things of that
nature, as well as water and all
this different you know these
different elements that could
penetrate you know electric
electricity. You don't want that
to happen. So, working with our
manufacturing partners in China,
because I don't care what you
say, every LED chip comes from
in China. No matter as much as
you want to say it's made in the
USA, it's not. And we were at
least honest about it, but
that's a whole nother story.
That was an experience because
we we were in like an electrical
business that the market told us
where to go. We were selling
white lighting, LEDs, and stuff
like that, and doing conversions
back in the late teens. Yeah,
because the wave had yet to come
to shore. You had the TVA that
was incentivizing all the
different switchovers and stuff
like that. Never thought that my
electrical experience would be
relevant in my life ever again,
but here we were. We were
putting lights in. If the owners
got to put a tool belt on, that
so be it. You know, get up on
the lift and start changing out
lights. It's what we did. But
you know, and it's funny because
the the staff we have now, dare
I say, loves working with me if
I get out in the field because I
was taught well. You know the
company when I was working as an
electrician, they they were very
big on training and doing it the
right way and taking pride in
how the job was done. I mean
they had to go and look at a
circuit that I had worked on for
a string of lights in a project
we did up in Ohio, and you know,
just to kind of trace a circuit,
nothing that I did was wrong. It
was just something with the
circuit where it originated was
wonky, and just undoing
everything that I had put in
there, like, oh my gosh, like
what do you put? Are your hands
tired? I'm like, no. You you use
your alignment and you tighten
the wire nut, and that's how I
was taught. You twist the wires
together, and you,
yeah,
you know, and you make sure it
fits in the box well, and you
make it look neat. Like we need
you to come out on more jobs.
I'm like, no, this is kind of
like every now and then. I like
this is how I like it, but if I
need to, that's fine. You got
to make it look clean.
Yeah, yeah. You got to make it
look. You got to take pride in
your work.
You know, it's interesting. I I
took a break from electrical
distribution to work for a a
wired cable OEM, and it's kind
of fascinating. We were
considered an OEM because we
twisted the cables and then, or
sorry, twisted the wires, which
turns into a cable, and then put
the jacket on there, so we were
considered the manufacturer,
American manufacturer. Yeah,
even though those parts came
from I don't know Mexico. Yeah,
there's
elements of made in the USA that
if you check the boxes, you can
claim it.
Yeah, that's weird. That's kind
of when you think about
it. Yeah, sourcing the materials
is a like if we made our own
lighting shells and maybe
sourced our PCBs here. If we had
our drivers, I mean, most of the
driver companies are out in
China as well. Meanwell being
one of the big ones out there,
and you know the the software,
the DMX software that we we came
up with our own controller
software. So that was made in
the USA for sure. Yeah, but I
mean, all the different rare
earth elements that make an LED
are coming from China. There's
no ifs, ands, or buts. There's
no getting around it. They have
the market cornered. Okay, when
it comes to LED technology, so
you know we've had competitors.
Oh, we're made in the USA. No,
you're not. Stop.
Yeah,
stop. Okay, what was
your? I guess what was your
pitch when you wanted to push
this material? I mean, like we
obviously we had we had a
meeting with distribution, yeah.
But like, how often would you
actually go out there and meet
the contractors? I mean, like,
and how would you?
We were we're selling directly
to the customer.
Sure.
Yeah. So a lot of the you know,
they would see us at a trade
show. The competitor that we had
was a lot higher price. They
also had a lot more longevity in
the business. They were
considered to be one of the
first in the mine in terms of
that kind of technology. But I
think they started getting into
other verticals and still are
that are outside of the car wash
realm. So we ended up just by
outlasting all the other
competitors became one of the
you know I think that's what
attracted our buyer to the table
is the fact that we lasted long
and like hey you're still around
obviously you're doing something
right you you kind of passed the
five year threshold yeah and
eventually that you know one
thing led to another and you
know they they wanted to buy us
and so so on and so forth, but
you know when we got in front of
different people, it was mainly
hey we have a simpler system.
It's scalable. It's made with
you in mind, so you don't have
to figure stuff out. You could
teach your staff on it if you
want or not. It was mainly.
Around the controller software
and the the lights, just they
just you know the less headache
you gave them, the better off
you were. So these they're not
going to give you headaches if
they do go out, which
inevitably, invariably, they do.
Sometimes water just gets
through.
Yeah,
we're going to replace it. Okay,
we're going to be the hero. We
even have stickers printed up.
That Was hold it up to the
camera. Be the hero, and that
was that goes back to when I
worked with my dad. He says, you
know, because I always being in
a in a white collar environment,
growing up in Westchester
County, Danbury, Connecticut,
Fairfield County, in that part
of the country in the 90s and
80s. If you're a blue collar
man, I mean, you were just
looked down upon. You know, at
least that's how I saw it. Yeah.
You know. So going in and fixing
telephone systems in a doctor's
office or a lawyer's office. I
mean, you were like just. You
might as well be scraping us off
the bottom of your shoe, kind of
feeling.
Did you ever watch that South
Park episode? The the
Panderverse. Oh, just I love it.
It's basically a quick just a
yeah. The episode was basically
talking about how the tradesmen
or the new Elon Musks. They own
everything because they're the
richest people. Because no one
we're in a society where no one
knows how to do anything
anymore, right? And they lean on
them, and they are just
outbidding everybody, and then
they have all this money, and
then they're just buying
rockets, and they just become
the yeah, they become like the
new Elon Musk. And I just
thought it was so hilarious, but
it's true. It is true. Amazing
how things have turned a little
bit.
Yeah.
Oh yeah. Going back to the AI
conversation. Well, the
AI it's going to be a it's going
to be an issue for people in
white collar jobs. But again, my
father, you know, he says when
you go in there, you can't have
that mindset of being less than
less than and go in there acting
like you're their hero. Yeah,
you're there to fix a problem
that they can't fix. You know
how to fix it. You're the hero,
and I never forgot that. Did I
embody it at the time? No, I was
too young to fully appreciate
what he was talking about. Did
you
tell me what your father did?
I'm sorry.
He was in the phone business.
The phone business with the
digital phone systems, PBX, all
that stuff. I mean, I've hung
and installed many a phone
system. Probably still could.
Yeah,
I still remember the code to get
into programming a Toshiba phone
system, so I could actually
initialize an entire system if I
wanted to,
which
I might have done back when I
when somebody pissed me off. Oh
wow! And I'll just leave it at
that. Oh, but I find with your
with your positions very
interesting because, man, it is
one of those things that you do
need to know what you're talking
about. You need to know the
parts, how they work together,
what's the best solution for the
customer, things of that nature.
Do you need to know like the
intricacies of the calculations
and the math that goes involved
with these types of things?
I mean, when I was when I was
working the counter in the
warehouse, I screwed up so many
times where I was forced to like
know not to screw up again. So,
with yeah, when you send a
customer the wrong part, it's
even if it's like 20 cents, that
little part, you know, that's 20
cents. It's costing them 1000s
of dollars every single time.
They every single hour they
don't have it. So I had to
really like, I guess, put that
in my. I had to be aware of that
from a contractor's perspective.
Like, okay, well, big deal. They
like I messed up. So anyway, no,
I messed up so many times that I
can know how to not mess up and
how to know how to the how to
ask the right questions as far
as like every element to the
lock nut to the washer, asking
the right questions to you know
okay quarter inch half inch
size. Okay, what's this going on
to? What's the application? Does
got to be weather resistant,
like explosion
proof?
Explosion proof, yeah. Like that
that went with time, but I'm I'm
very fortunate enough now that I
get to focus more on the
relationship. But it does help
that I've had that experience.
Well, I mean, you you seem like
one of these people that once
you it only takes you one or two
times to learn from a mistake.
You know, like you're going to
be so cognizant of it that
you're going to, you're like,
oh, you're going to, you're
going to, it's going to be so
personalized. You're going to be
so, ah, I don't want that to
happen ever again. Is that
something that's like you?
That's that's uh, that's that's
very accurate. And um, you know,
my my father was in construction
too, so I grew up when I was a
kid being the go-getter, picking
up the trash around the job
sites, and yeah, he was one of
those. I'm you share, you know,
I'm sure you feel this way about
your father, man. Like there's
just nothing, you never see
anything he couldn't do.
Yeah, he was. Yeah, my dad was
like that. Yeah, wait a minute,
you're gonna build a. What on
the like? He literally, my mom
had her hips replaced. One of
her hips were replaced, and
instead of like you know, most
people would be like, "Well, we
needed to figure out a way to
get her downstairs, so we got to
come up with this. You know,
they make these things you sit
in a chair and it goes down the
stairs. Yeah. No, he made it,
and it would actually. It was a
platform with a boat winch at
the top of the stairs that she
could roll the wheelchair on and
it would get her down, and he
built like a platform that can,
dude. For us growing up, it was
like, oh, we're just doing this.
Now I look back on it and go,
holy crap, who does that? Nobody
anymore.
Yeah, it's it's dad engineering.
Yeah, while it's it's
incredible. They just figure it
out.
They were big RV people. Like I
grew up RVing and camping and
stuff like that, glamping, if
you will, because he was a huge
fisherman and loved taking the
boat to Lake Ontario, the ocean,
whatever. But they would get an
RV, brand new, beautiful RV, and
pick it up on a Friday, bring it
home. You know, I remember was a
kid see the lights pulling in a
driveway, and you wanted to go
in there and smell it and
everything. And then you'd eat
breakfast the next morning, and
you'd go into the new RV, and
he'd have the entire dashboard
ripped apart. And it was like,
oh my gosh, are you going to be
able to put this back? I mean,
why are like just a rat's nest?
Because he's making all his
modifications for CB radios and
all that crap, and yeah, with
him by the end of the day, it
was all back together. There was
always something to do.
I bet he did. He wake you up in
the middle, like 4o'clock in the
morning, later on summers. She's
like, "Hey, something to do, or
"Hey, we're going to go to work.
We're going to build something.
We're going to do something.
We're not just going to sit in
the house all day.
I wasn't as ambitious as he was.
I think he kind of, you know,
when his secretary or his
receptionist would have a
vacation during the summer,
well, who are we going to get to
cover phones? I guess we can get
Jimmy down there. Then I
literally he'd be like, "Hey,
next week I need you down there.
I'm like, "But it's my summer
vacation, you know, and he'd be
like, "And you know, my brother
was working for him. You know,
he had my older brother, and my
father would.
Man,
I need you on the phones. All
right, it was like the most,
like the the metaphor I used
when he came in here. I'd rather
go down a water slide full of
razor blades into a pool of
alcohol than answer phones all
day. Oh my god!
That's a lot happening around
that scenario.
Look, it was awful. Yeah, you
know someone, but you know what
I did? I'd read drum catalogs,
and I didn't just imagine myself
playing these amazing drum kits
that I'd seen in these catalogs.
Yeah, couldn't wait till
5o'clock came around. We
go back to our topic about the
how blue collar was kind of
looked down upon. Yeah, I mean,
my my dad made a living on
construction. I mean, he was
super on the field, and he would
always bring us out on the job
sites. You know, we we weren't
just going to sit in the house
and do nothing. He would we
would take take us out there,
and you know, I was I was really
rebellious against it, like
being under the hot sun carrying
lumber. I'm like, oh, not fun.
No way. I'm not doing this. I'm
gonna go work at Arby's. You
know, I'll work at Arby's for
it, and I'll show them. And I
guess I just didn't see it too
long because now my brothers and
my whole family-they're in
construction now and they're
doing really well. So I didn't
see it back then. I was just
like, I'd rather just go work at
Arby's, and I won't be bossed
around and sit under the hot sun
all day. I'll show them, and
yeah. So getting into this
industry, I'm glad that I get to
work with people and get to be
in part of their project. So I
feel like that was like that
little gap that I was rebellious
in. I just I missed out on so
much during that time. But yeah,
it's just just an interesting
experience, man. Fathers are
great, and it's great that you,
you know, privileged to have
those experiences too. To you
know, because I still say to
this day, I will never be up to
my dad's ankles as far as like
you know the things he can do.
And
is your dad still around?
Oh yeah, yeah, he's definitely
around, and I'll still make
those phone calls too. Like my
crawlspace flooded. What do I
do? What's happening? I don't
want to get screwed on pricing
here. I
don't have that luxury. My dad
will be gone 20 years next
month, and I miss him every day.
I appreciate that, but he's he's
he was definitely like if he
wanted to be a good dad, that's
that was his desire. He we he
got to be our dad. That was his,
I think, his disposition towards
us. Not like, hey, you made me a
dad. It was I get to be your
dad. It was an outward thing,
and you know, he did everything
with us. He built model rockets
with my brother. We built model,
you know, remote control cars.
One of the first big projects we
did, I'll never forget it. You
know, we're always using hand
tools. I still have his tools at
my toolbox in my house. You
know, stuff that's probably 60
years old at this point. But the
first big project we did
together was building a remote
control car called the Monster
Beetle back in 1986 or 87 on
Memorial. Day weekend, or never
forget it. Big old rainy
Saturday. We sat at the kitchen
table, just putting transmission
together and linkage and all the
stuff. And yeah, it was a lot of
fun. Do you mean
it's it's just amazing? Like
that's that bonding is so
important. Yeah, it really is. I
mean, yeah. I mean, something
just just depends. But I feel
like deep down we really crave
that. You know, you'd be like,
"Oh, I don't want to get up. I
don't want to do all this. Ah, I
don't want. But like, I think we
appreciate that as we're older
now. Yeah. Well, I
mean, again, going back to the
job we did up in Parma, Ohio,
when we started j2, it was we
were gone for eight days because
it was a 550 fixture replacement
job. So, and we had a full, full
all hands on deck scenario up
there, probably seven people.
But there's only so many lights
you can do in a day, you know.
So you do the math on that, and
that's kind of turned out to be
where how we landed was about
seven or eight days away. But
even getting up in the morning
in the hotel and just knowing
the next 1012, hours is going to
be a grind. Your feet are going
to ache when you're done because
you're not used to this. You
haven't done it in a while, but
here we are. Let's get it done.
Seriously, like the
electrician's hands. You know
the ones that are. Oh yeah. Oh
man, they're built differently,
man. They, you know, twisting
those wire nuts, installing that
guy. There was a guy
I worked with. He was a
Hungarian guy at Nikon when I
was, and he and I were buddies.
He was a hard ass, but you know,
I I matched his crazy matched
mine, and being a good
assistant, I could I got the
gist of like I need to read what
you're doing before you even get
there to make sure you have what
you have what you need before
you even know you need it. So I
was always good at be like,
okay, he's going to need a, you
know, an old work box and blah
blah blah. And I mean, he's
probably going to need an extra
little bit of, you know, MC
cable or whatever, and the
clamps that go with it and the
connectors, and he's going to
need this tool. So I'd always
just be right there. I just
figured that out. You know, this
my job is to serve you to make
sure you have what you need.
You're the lead guy, so we'd be
up on ladders middle of winter,
and he would have this like
sometimes the thumb would split
on the ridge next to the nail
because you'd be twisting stuff,
and the cold weather would do
stuff to your skin. That dude
had at least a quarter inch cut
on his thumb. That you know
after a while he couldn't
because he had gloves on and
band aids. He just ripped the
whole thing off because he
couldn't get a grip on the the
wire nut, and you could just see
he's just in pain, just pushing
through. I'm like, that shit
doesn't happen anymore, man. You
just don't see that anymore.
That kind of grit.
Installing one. I mean, I've
installed a few receptacles in
my lifetime, but like I'm, I'm
like, my hands get tired. I'm
like, oh man, there's people out
there. Oh yeah, install hundreds
of these every single day. I'm
like,
man, now they have attachments
for drills to do it. Really, you
could put the little thing in
the drill and screw the wire nut
on. You talking
about those little easy
connects, this little putt, and
then they just put it in there
and the screwed on,
yeah, you know, has like a
little like a a bit you could
put in your your screw gun, your
drill, Makita, whatever you're
using, yeah, and it's like it
goes right on this the wire nut
and twists it on the wire for
you,
little pigtails, whatever.
That's a little easy, yeah. I
guess so. We didn't have that
when I was coming.
Well, what I do is I've
subscribed to like Electrical
Today and these magazines, just
little, little bedroom read, and
somebody like gave me a device
to do that, and now I've
subscribed to it, and now I just
like flip through it on my free
time. It's like, oh man, there's
a little little product that
they're making right now, make a
cuts the cost of labor, get you
get the done job done faster. So
it helps having those little,
you know, when you're talking to
a customer, just you
know, you yeah.
Everybody wants to save some
money. If
you ever actually get out and
get on an electrical job, just
to kind of see what these guys
go through,
all the time. In fact, when I
was starting this out, I I was
either sink or swim. They didn't
give me. I wasn't given like a
salary or anything like that. I
was just like 100% commission.
Like, hey, you can either do
this or you can't. And I
basically had no choice. I was
like, okay, I'm gonna go out on
job sites. I got myself a vest
and a hard hat and boots and
gave myself a little pen and
paper. So just to give myself
the perception that I was there
to you know check some stuff
off, some some sort of
inspection, and then I go other
Connexes. I ask the right
questions. I say, "Oh, so what's
the the the electrical
contractor? Where's their Connex
at? You know, I'll go out there
and I hand out my business
cards. So yes, I did a lot of
that. I still do. I mean, it's
amazing. Just I passed through a
few job sites on the way over
here, and then I see a pallet
full of three-inch PVC. I'm
like, oh, I get a little greedy.
I don't know. I just oh no,
that's that's that's a good
position. Yeah, I'm just
thinking like, ooh, you know
that
used to that
taking food out of my kid's
mouth.
That's the same thing that used
to happen to me when I used to
see temp tags on cars. It would
drive me nuts, especially in my
own. Neighborhood, yeah. I'm
like, I'm not doing a good
enough job to let everybody know
what I do.
And it's funny that you pay
attention to things a little
differently. Like, how many
times have you gone to a
restaurant and you see just see
the the light job that they do,
or just think, oh, I see like
the EMT ran through the the
termination box. I'm like, huh.
That's the thing is that next
time you guys are out in a
Costco or a Lowe's, Home Depot.
Look up, and you see those
raceways, those pipes that
they're usually like in like you
know just a bunch. There could
be 10 of them running in the
same direction, and it's almost
you don't appreciate it. At
least I didn't back when I
learned how to do it.
Yeah, the
art form. It really truly is an
art form when you have to bend
pipe and make it look a certain
way, look neat, and they all
bend together. I mean, it is a
flipping art form.
It
takes a talent. I mean,
it's it is, and then yeah,
again, you just kind of see
things a little bit differently.
Oh yeah, like now I I'm when I'm
at a restaurant or at a table, I
see a salt shaker, and this is
kind of the beauty of sales in a
way. I just look at that salt
shaker, and I'm thinking, not
only did somebody make money off
that salt, but somebody made
money off the container that's
in.
Yeah,
you know, somebody made some
money off of that. Everything we
touch, something somebody made
some money. Somebody had to sell
it. Somebody had to sell it, and
I just thought, yeah, this
business is very fascinating.
It really is.
Yeah,
I mean, I still, whenever I have
to go shop for electrical
components at Home Depot.
Why don't you call me, Jim?
Next time I will. But if I'm if
I'm just browsing the aisle,
there's just such a sense of
possibility.
Yeah,
in just wandering around that
aisle alone, I don't know why it
is because there's so many
different things you can do with
electrical parts. You know, you
can build mechanical things. You
can you know things that you can
hang from your ceiling and hang
stuff off of. It's EMT. It's
rigid. Whatever. It's it's so
many different things that you
could try and like a lot of
solutions that weren't
electrical derived from that
aisle, as if that to make sense.
You can't really do that in the
plumbing aisle, you know,
because you got PECs and you
know things of that nature.
Everything with the electrical
aisle is so just ingenuitive,
you know.
Beauty of Ohm's law,
yeah, yeah. It's really it's
just something about it. Like
even when I had to go do parts
runs when I worked for Nikon,
there was just I don't know,
just a weird. It's hard to
describe because it wasn't a bad
time in my life. It was very
fruitful. The customers we dealt
with, you know, working with
Alex Gratzel, the Hungarian guy,
you know, I haven't talked to
the guy in probably 30 years, or
seen him if he's still even
alive. But just good memories.
Yeah, it was a good time in life
to kind of be doing that kind of
work, even though I knew it was
for the short term.
It's just amazing the type.
Yeah, the people that you meet
in this industry, like it's
their different walks of life,
and you just learn new things,
and yeah, it's incredible. I'm
pretty sure that your Hungarian
friend they they did things a
little differently in in
Hungary, you know, as far as
like applications go, and the
way
codes, codes, yeah, yeah,
no, but yeah, selling is this
very industry, and there's like
really no there's no formula to
it. It's just more of I've
always just went the approach of
just like understanding the
contractor why they do what they
do because everybody has a
story, and who doesn't want to
tell their story? I mean, I
think that's always that's
always been a good like in is
just having those conversations
and asking what is my
competition doing better than
me? Yeah, you know what's what's
what are they doing? What are
their wow factors? Is it rebates
or is it the best price? You
know, do they go to your church?
What's what's the story here.
Otherwise, yeah, I I'm not
looking to just sell you things
at the bottom dollar. I want a
partnership. You tell me what it
takes to make that partnership
happen.
Right.
Yeah. What are what
are typically the common threads
that you know the boxes that you
got to check? Are there
well
to run all together?
I well, one thing I just want to
throw this out there: I hate
golf. I'll say it again: I hate
golf. Everybody in this industry
wants to golf, and I, I hate it.
I hate talking about golf. Jeez,
I'm gonna get canceled. No, I.
But I just, I, it kind of just
the nuances of like selling has
always been golf. Talking about
golf, and I just like, oh my
gosh, can we do something
different here? So I just kind
of get creative. Like I want to
talk about something else. That
you know, and the last
thing they probably want to talk
about is their. Yeah,
I mean, yeah, exactly. I mean,
you got it. I mean, but that's
the thing. I mean, a contractor
or your customer can all they
can like you all day long, you
know. But doesn't mean you're
going to get the business
because you got to make the
business make sense too. It's
great if you have both sides if
they like you and they want to
buy from you, but sometimes it's
either or. So crossing off the
boxes is just understanding who
they're selling to, because I
have I have made it a point to
treat general contractors like a
customer as well, because I know
that's who the electricians are
selling. They they need they
want to bid the jobs and they
want to win the jobs. And if
there's a strong relationship
there, then I want to make sure
that I know what they're doing
on the back end because
otherwise, I'm just going to go
in there like an idiot. Like you
want to buy some pipe for me?
Yeah,
some receptacles for me. Like
what I'm saying is that you got
to bring something to the table.
Right.
You got to do something
different. Well, because you're
a
commodity,
yeah,
yeah, you're in a commoditized
position. Your your role is not
dissimilar from that of an
insurance agent, a car salesman,
someone who sells mortgages, a
real estate agent.
Yeah, it
really does come down to
branding and personal branding.
You know,
especially if you're somebody
who I would imagine who can
empathize with that GC or the
electrical company? Yeah, you
know what I mean. You know
exactly what their pain points
are. You know what it's like to
live their life. That's why I'm
like, like I would wonder if I
had another life to do what you
do, if my experience being an
electrician at one point in my
life would be helpful, because
you could you could relate to
them.
Well, yeah. I wanted to talk
about the lighting lighting game
here, and if you've, I know we
talked about your experience,
but yeah, it's amazing how it's
lighting is just it's such a
game changer now. It's with
these companies, these reps.
It's I was told that back in the
day, lighting people want to
build relationships with
distribution. It's not like that
anymore. Lighting companies can
just sell directly to the
customer, and so we and
distribution were forced to bend
the knee. And you got to like
take them out to lunch. You got
to be got to be in their good
graces because I mean they can
just sell directly to your
customer. They don't really need
you anymore. But I think that I
get it because it's amazing.
These guys, they or and women,
they can go in and before the
specs are even written on paper
on the blueprints, they're
already involved. They have
already secured the job at its
infant stage,
which
is kind of fascinating. So by
doing that, they hold the cards
and they can know which general
contractor is going to get it,
and then from there they can
decide who the electricians is
going to install the package. So
yeah, it's just very very
fascinating and
like how did that happen?
Yeah, I mean, it's all politics
at the end of the day. Like, I I
kind of respect it in a way, but
it's sometimes it's very
difficult. But lighting people,
man, they could be your best
friends or your worst enemy
because they are they're it's a
little different for them. And
my lighting friends will tell me
this all the time. Like, they
play for high keeps. I mean,
they can win a million dollar
job, but they have to win the
whole job.
Yeah.
If I don't win a lighting
project, at least I have pipe
and wire to go back to. I can
still make money off of that.
Right.
But if they don't sell the job
as a package, then that's it.
They either win it or lose it.
So I think you have to be a
little cutthroat and vicious if
you if the stakes are that high,
right?
Oh yeah,
yeah. Because
I mean, if sometimes you're at
least in our situation, because
we could install our own stuff.
When it came to the white
lighting, you know, troffers,
high bays, UFOs, things of that
nature. We wanted the install,
or we, you know, we were happy
to sell it to whoever was
handling the purchasing of it,
you know. Yeah. But on those
prints, they would already have
the, you know, whoever whatever
manufacturer they were looking
for already laid out. Now, when
it came to the colored lighting,
there was a lot more flexibility
because there wasn't really a
front runner company out there
like you know Lithonia or
whoever that was you know
directly supplying material to
the end product or the end the
end customer. We were for the
colored side of things was a
lot. Dare I say easier, but
fewer and far between, because
right now I think is probably a
good time to be in the colored
lighting business because
everybody's moving in that
direction, and eventually, you
know, the hotels have already
moved in that direction.
Somebody's providing those
lights. You see them at the
airport in the parking garage
now. Not done very well. We
could do it a lot better, but
you know, you got to have a name
to go along with it, and time
and time, time and time in the
trenches. Well, it
gives you flexibility, like like
the color selectables, right?
They they just like you don't
have you can install it once,
and then you can you know change
it however you want. Like if you
wanted a different shade, then
you have to pop pop open that
door, rip it out, and then apply
a different, a
different bulb and a different
driver. Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
But I mean, the the system that
we came up with was called the
Attitude Lighting System, and
that was the software. So a lot
of the control systems, like we
would see at these car wash
shows, the the controllers would
take up like half a wall, and
we're like, why? You know, our
unit is literally that big. You
plug a data wire into it, goes
out to a switch. You power it
up, and the signal goes out to
the lights. We've actually made
most of the lighting product at
one point wireless when it came
to the controllability, so you
didn't need all you had to do
was put up a transceiver, and
then you know throughout the
tunnel, the floodlights would
listen to a wireless signal. You
wanted to change, do a show,
whatever, and just put it was so
just plug and play after a
while. It's crazy.
Should have gotten some
contracts with submarines, man.
It sounds like a missed
opportunity the way you're
talking. You know, I never even
thought
about doing submarines, but you
know, we can get government
work. That would have been good.
Oh, because hell knows they just
freaking piss money away. Yeah,
you can control your margins.
All all they care about is if
you're on the you're on the
list. You got to be on the list
in order for you, and then you
can make your you can make your
money. That's but I would
have to imagine like somebody in
your position. You just want the
people that you're dealing with.
I want to make sure I don't have
to. I've got enough headaches to
deal with
as it is.
I don't need another one. I need
you to handle you know late
shipments if they come up. I
need you to figure out if it's
going to be too late and what's
the replacement. What are we
looking at? That kind of stuff.
You're just basically you're
being a hero, essentially,
right?
Love it. Yeah, I mean, I think
if you were an owner of a
company, I mean, like, yeah,
you're right. You you have so
much on your plate, and if you
can partner with someone that
makes your life easy. They don't
even care about the price.
Right. It will make you just
like just take care of me.
To answer your question, that
was kind of our approach when it
came to car washes. That like
one of the things I would teach
people that were doing
interfacing with the client and
my business partner was
excellent at this. Look, we get
it. The last thing you need to
be worrying about is whether or
not your lights are working.
That's where we come in. Okay,
that's where we got to make sure
that you're being taken care of,
and we got to be the hero when
it comes to making sure that
your light shows are going off.
Because that was that became a
huge part of the industry. It
became a customer experience
rather than just washing a car.
You know, kids wanted to go.
Let's go where all the pretty
lights are, and that's why they.
That's why all these car washes
have light shows. Keeping up
with the Joneses. Now they're
going to video walls. That's a
new thing,
Jim. I want to compliment you
quickly. It's just you know you.
It's you're pretty impressive.
You you just do it. You talked
about so many things that you've
done, and you at least at least
tried if it worked, if it or if
it didn't. But you just have
that experience, and man, what
are what's what's the younger
generation doing now? Let's
well hopefully you know my kids
coming up watch their dad work a
lot. My youngest daughter is
helping me out with a couple of
things that I do for voiceover.
She's doing a lot of editing for
me, and she's she's loving it.
She's eager, you know. My son
did it for me for a while, but
he kind of outgrew it, and now
he's there's an element of like
the prodigal that happens with
kids. That you know, what do you
know, mom and dad? We're too
close to you, and we know how
you guys are. Therefore, your
opinions and thoughts don't
carry as much weight as the
world's do right now. Because
you know, we all went through
that. We all discounted our
parents in terms of what they
thought, and until we got to
about our mid 20s and realized,
you know, mom and dad kind of
knew what they were talking
about all along. And it's time
to give them due credit for what
they have been trying to impress
upon us. Because early on in a
child's life, you can shape them
right from wrong. You can
directly impact how they live,
how what the decisions they
make. You know, show them
accountability. Show them the
consequences of their decisions.
They get into their. Teenage
years, you could still have that
that input, but you're kind of
getting you're morphing and
evolving into what I call a
consultant mode. And once the
kids get older, you know they're
adults. You're a consultant at
that point. Hey, you know I see,
you know my son, he's kind of a
late bloomer, and I think COVID
had a lot to do with that. A lot
of I think it set a lot of kids
back. So you know, even though
he's 18, I think he's really
probably mentally 15 or 16. So
that maturity has still yet to
take hold. I have complete faith
that it's going to happen. But a
lot of the things that the next
generation and might this might
be the you know get off my lawn
comment of the conversation.
I got plenty of those. Yeah,
I think a lot of them are
enabled by excuses. Well, I've
got this condition. Well, I'm
this. I'm I'm labeled this. I've
been prescribed this. Therefore,
I have this. This is becomes my
identity, and now I can lean on
that, and that can be my excuse.
But eventually, you know, when
the rubber meets the road, man,
it's that shit doesn't matter.
It's it's about it. Always comes
down to grit. It always comes
down to ambition.
Yeah, yeah. I oh jeez, I fear
for my son all the time, and you
just nailed it. It's just, I
mean, the key word there is
accountability. Accountability
of life. I mean, not everyone is
going to hold your hand. Not
everyone is going to show you
the way. And then you're, yeah,
no, you've, you got to have.
That's the fear of the dad of
being a father. Is like my my
son, he'll hear a cuss like it's
there. You know, if he hears a
cuss word and he said, "Oh, I
learned it from a student, you
know, one of the kids I went to
school with, he said this word,
and I had to say, "Hey, you you
know you're not supposed to be
saying that word, right?
Right.
But if they said, "No, no, no,
no, no, you you shouldn't be
saying it, and it doesn't matter
if you heard it, accountability.
Yeah, we went through that, but
we weren't exactly the best
models because somebody in the
room might have a little bit of
a propensity of not having
patience when it comes to
certain things. So it's you
know, for example, we came home
from dinner one night, and my my
kids were I don't think our
Hallie was born at that point,
but oh yeah, she was because I
was I was fixing her crib. But
we got home from somewhere, and
the kids were still really
small, and my son's running
around, and he tripped on
something, and he's maybe I
don't know six years old at the
time, maybe five, and he goes,
ah, my wife starts dying
laughing, and like she like
really, I'm I have to deal with
this now because you're
completely in hysterics. I got
to be the fuck you learned that
word, right? And like you know,
and we're like, I'm like, you
can't because it's this little
voice, you know, and you're
trying to be like you-you cannot
say that word, and you know your
wife is freaking cackling in the
background, and your son's
looking at you like I'm confused
right now because I should be
taking you seriously, but
everybody's laughing, and we're
getting him ready for bed. And I
bring him upstairs, and all of a
sudden he comes up to me. He's
like, "Dad, why can't I say? I'm
like, "Dude, you just did it
again. She hears it downstairs
and all over again starts
laughing, and I'm like, in my
mind, going, "This is absolutely
hilarious right now. But I gotta
be the adult, you know. And
then, you know, the next night,
because they had the baby
monitor in the our youngest's
room, and I was lowering the the
crib, and the person who keeps
on putting freaking hex wrenches
and screws into freaking kits?
There's a special place in hell
for you because I cannot stand
hex bolts. And you know, here's
the cheap little freaking Allen
wrench, and it's like, dude,
those things suck. And
especially when you got you're
working with machine thread
trying to get the thing started,
and you got like a you know the
weight of the mattress and
you're trying to you know hand
you're trying to spin like five
different plates getting this
little frickin screw in there
and keeping this stupid thing oh
dude don't get me started so
naturally I would have a
meltdown that came through the
baby monitor for all to hear
downstairs and you know my
wife's like oh gee I wonder
where they're hearing all these
words from, Jim. You know, I'm
like, "Dude, we're both guilty.
But come on, yeah. I'm like, I
never swear in front of the
kids. Yeah, you do.
It's, oh yeah. I mean, you're
you're just protecting them from
the outside world. I mean,
there's not everybody's going to
take kindly if you're just
throwing the f bomb right
everywhere and. Yeah, no.
Childhood is that's very
interesting. I um I do you ever
reflect on like how you were
parented, like and then you oh
jeez, I was kind of an asshole.
Yeah, kind of a a little yeah.
See, we
I don't think we were. I mean,
that's my brother and I talk
about it. Like you know, mom and
dad had it pretty good with us,
and this is how bold we are. You
know, maybe we're missing a few
things, but we don't have our
parents to talk to anymore. In
terms of maybe we're off, but
yeah, I mean, we were there were
dumb, boneheaded things that
we've done, but nothing like you
know police worthy. You know
what I mean? I made some stupid
decisions when I was a kid. We
all do, but I don't think ever
gave him a run for my for that
was probably credit to how they
brought us up. Yeah. So
were there elements of your
childhood that like I guess
drove you to do what you do
today? I mean, like he if he can
really like go back. I mean, we
talked about our fathers and how
they were great examples, and
just accomplishing-not not have
any excuses. Just you know, like
if you want something, you know,
do it yourself or try to
accomplish it, try to figure it
out. But like you, if you can
just take it away from, take it
to its primal state. Like you
know, Jim. Like what what made
Jim who he is today? I mean, was
this? I
think my father.
You know, I'm asking. Yeah,
my father was very. He
recognized he recognized a lot
of himself in me.
Okay,
and my brother was a not not not
like our our mom, but he was
there first, and they wanted
somebody to go to college
because that was what they hung
their pride on. You know, back
in that generation, it was kids
got to go to college. That's
just there's no ifs, ands, or
buts about it. You go to
college, and we want you to be
the first one to graduate with a
degree, and this way, we can be
proud of ourselves, and we know
we did something right. So my
brother was that for them. I, on
the other hand, was the wild
card, and I think my dad always
knew that. You know, for Dan, we
have to make sure that he does
this because I know this is what
the structure he needs. Jim, I'm
not worried about because he's
going to figure it out because
he's like me. That's what I.
That's what I found out later on
in life. But a lot of what we
saw, a lot of what was what
raised us was what was caught
versus taught. So seeing Dad
work all the time, not all the
time. He he had a good work life
balance. He liked to play hard.
He liked to work hard. You know,
we had the toys, we had boats,
and all these things. Growing
up, we had a great childhood. I
mean, my dad showed us a lot how
to do things, and as much as it
pains me to say it, my mom
showed us how not to do things.
There, there are people in life.
There are people in life that I
think that we come across that
will show you, and you know this
intrinsically with every fiber
of your being when it happens to
you. How when you're in a
position like that, I know how
to do it and I know how not to
do it. So my mom was very like.
Remember, I said before, my dad
was like, "You, you, I got to be
your dad. My mom had the
attitude of, "You made me a mom.
Everything was inward. Like this
is what you did for me. You
know, a lot of the language that
she used because I was always
the class clown, if you will. Go
figure.
I know, right?
And I heard this one sentiment
in the last couple years of her
life, he was always my
entertainment. She would say
that to her friends, to her new
husband. Your mother always says
that you were her entertainment.
Like this is what I did for you.
Yeah,
you were always my
entertainment. So the language
was inward. This is what you did
for me. My father, on the other
hand, was like, this is what I
get to do for you. You see what
I'm saying, so exactly
what you're saying. My
father was-he never told us. He
would always tell us when we
were growing up, "I'll never be
afraid to hug and kiss you,
boys, and tell you I love you.
And so my brother and I were
like, "Yeah, of course you're
our dad, but that's because that
was not told to him. He didn't
get that experience from his
father, and he decided to break
the cycle with us. I'm getting
freaking emotional talking about
it, but that's that was his
decision. That's that was the
power he had, and that's what he
did. And that's you know he
showed us how to be good,
productive adults with how he
handled himself. He didn't
always do it right. He wasn't
perfect, you know.
I don't think we're ever really
doing it right. I mean, we can
always criticize ourselves, you
know. Right? It's amazing that
we have that representation and
example because we're always
trying to do better, right?
We're always trying to do
better, and I think, I mean,
well, if you're a good person,
yeah, there's no
such thing as a good person. I
don't think they they exist. I
believe
I think you and my I I had four
siblings. Well, me and my
brother were the oldest. Sons
and yeah, him and I are so night
and day. I was, which is kind of
like what I get fulfillment of
my job today, is because I was
not an extrovert. I was very
afraid to talk to people. I
didn't know how to do it. I was
very awkward, and I didn't have
a lot of friends either. Like I
didn't really come out of my
shell until I was like in junior
high.
Right.
I started getting a little more
confident because that's
actually
early.
Well, I guess. Well, I started
playing music and I started like
learning how to play guitar and
then I got a new, you know,
group of friends that were
shared my interests. But yeah,
like my brother, um, he was just
gosh, you can make anybody
laugh. He was just yeah, like a
clown. Like he just knew how to
like
new timing, comedic timing.
Yeah,
people hated. Some people loved
it. Some people hated it. But
like, he was just a clown, and I
just felt like, ah, man, if only
if I had that. I never had that,
and I never understood it. But
that was a talent that he had.
Yeah,
he was a great. He was just a
just so yeah. He knew
how to pay, how to check that
box. Yeah, he was an
entertainer.
And when you measure yourself
against that, I did the same
thing. My brother was a piano
player, and because that was his
identity for a majority of his
youth. You know, from elementary
school, middle school, high
school, he was always the the
keyboard player guy,
synthesizers, piano. Yeah, I was
always envious of that because I
always knew I wanted to be a
drummer since I was probably six
years old. And my mom, hey, what
do you want to play? You want to
play an instrument like your
brother? Yes, I know exactly the
instrument. What is it? The
drums. Oh, they're too loud. And
again, inward language being
deployed on me, I always enjoyed
the saxophone. You should play
the saxophone. I kid you not. I
mean, this is this is a
revelation about the inward
language concept I'm talking to
you about. This was revealed to
me in the last couple of years
at what we were doing with her
decline. That a lot of I'm like,
you know, holy crap! I've I
never realized this before, but
listen to the language she uses.
Everything is inward. This is
what you did for me. I want I
want you to play a saxophone
because I always liked
it.
You know what I mean? So yeah, I
played the saxophone from I
don't know fourth grade. That
was it.
Well, I have to I have to admit
that I think I am like your
mother in a lot of ways when it
comes to parenting my child,
because there are things that we
bond over, we bond over, we bond
over music and bond over things.
I mean, I'm a musician, and I've
thought about getting him into
like you know, try the drums,
try the guitar. You know, like
it'll, I'll enjoy it because
it's the a bond, a new bond I'll
have with you. So I have to
check myself every now and then
because I do. I I
as long as you don't force it
on,
yeah. If there's
if there's an intrinsic, my son
was always musical, and because
dad played the drums, he wanted
to play the drums, and then at
some point he got it in his head
that well, you just want me to
play the drums because you play
the drums, yeah. And I said,
nobody, that's not it at all.
I'm telling you right now, I'm
not forcing you to do it. I'm
making you do it through middle
school and be part of band
because you are fantastic at
this. I see this talent in you.
Your mother sees it. Your uncle
sees it. Your your siblings see
it. You're the only one who
doesn't. You're the only one in
the band that's dancing. You're
the only one in the band that
takes that. That's on the drum
set. You're the one driving the
band, buddy. That's all right.
You, he could have gone into
high school, been part of the
drum line without an audition.
That was offered to him, and he
was like, "Nope, because you
want me to do it, right? Okay. I
mean, literally, I'm not going
to force you to do it.
Yeah.
Our agreement was through middle
school. I figured by the end of
middle school, you'd be you'd
kind of have a knack for it, but
if you want to be that stubborn
about it, fine. That's not my
cross to bear; that's yours, and
you're gonna have to learn that
at some point. And I hope that
you know it'll never be too late
for you to pick it up again. But
imagine all the time that was
lost. How much further you could
be if you just stuck with it?
You know, he he tried piano,
dude. We got him a piano for for
Christmas, and my my brother is
a piano player. Christmas Day,
he was playing it like
somebody's been playing it for
nine months.
Yeah,
just instant gravitation towards
it. I film it, send it to my
brother. I'm like, check this
out. He's never played before.
Look at him. My brother's like,
oh my gosh, he needs to keep. He
says, "Don't force it on him. I
said, "No, I'm not going to
force it. Yeah. But every time
we told him, "My gosh, buddy,
you're really good at yeah, you
think so? Yeah, you're amazing.
Okay, I'm going to stop. Okay,
don't do it because I'm telling
you, dude. That's so. That was
like the frustrating thing that
as a parent, you got to realize
that. All right.
Do things become? I mean, in
your experience, I mean, do
things become calloused or
no
mundane.
You have that choice to make. So
again, my kids. I am also hyper
aware of what my kids see. I
know they see me lose my
patience and my temper. I
completely get that. But guess
what? Also, they get to see.
They get I. They have seen me
apologize more than I care to
admit. I apologize. I'm sorry.
You shouldn't. You shouldn't
have to see your dad do that.
That's not fair to you. No, Dad.
It's okay. No, it's not. I need
to be better.
Being reactive. Yeah.
I need to be better about this,
and I'm working on it. I thank
you for your patience, and I
thank you for your
understanding. But I want you to
know that I'm apologizing to
you. They need to see that.
Yeah,
you know.
Yeah,
that's a big thing because a lot
of parents are like, "Well, this
is my way, and this is how it's
done, and blah blah. Okay, good
luck.
Oh,
you got to read the room
sometimes.
Yeah, I mean, you're the you're
you're the only person that can
really show them how to do that
too. If you don't show them,
somebody else will, and they
probably won't like it.
They're gonna see their father.
I know three things right off
the top of my head that they're
gonna see their dad do. Yeah,
see him work really hard for the
family. They're gonna see him
love their mom, and they're
gonna see him own up to when he
makes a mistake, and he'll be
there to teach you if you're
willing to learn. Because I
mean, you know, when the student
is ready, the teacher shall
appear. That's a big thing that
you got to keep in mind as a
parent. It could be frustrating,
but eventually, you know, we're
all going to have that day where
our kids come to us. I need
help.
Yeah,
I need your help. We've all done
it. We've all realized our
parents might actually have some
value. That's a natural order of
things.
Jim, I don't want to call this
like imposter syndrome, but like
I'm gonna. Oh, sorry, I went a
whole different direction there.
That's good. No, I mean, I don't
know if you ever feel this way?
But like, there are times where
I'm just like, oh my, I can't
believe I'm doing this. I didn't
think that this was even
possible for me. I really set my
expectations low because I was
not the smartest. I was not the
social. I was. I wasn't really
that social. Didn't have a lot
of friends. I struggled
academically. I struggled a lot,
and I I gave up on myself a long
time ago. I get it. Yeah, I
thought, okay, well, if I don't
make it in music, if I don't
become a you know rock star,
then I'm screwed. I'm gonna have
to find a gonna gonna flip
burgers probably. Well,
there's a there's a notion out
there that I've heard from a lot
of different gurus. No offense
to anybody who flips
burgers for a little sorry,
you know thought leaders and
stuff like that that use this.
You are the best person for who
you were. So the people that are
listening to this, or people you
come across that are that it's a
common thing to have imposter
syndrome or feeling like you're
not doing enough, or you should
be in a certain place.
Comparison is a thief of joy,
and also, I like
that. Comparison is a thief of
joy.
It
is. I've never heard that
before.
I would compare my my my spot in
life to where my dad, like what
came at 50 years old, dad was
here. I'm 50 years old. My not
my age right now. When he was
51, he was back in the trenches.
He was back in a truck. We had a
big recession that hit our part
of the country pretty hard in
the early 90s. It was it was
very devastating. I mean, we we
went from probably a 1516,
employee business down to just
my dad within a matter of
months. Because I mean, money
just got the flow of money got
turned off. And being in the
phone business, we're not a
we're in need, but we don't we
don't we don't need to upgrade
the phone system now.
We don't have
the money. We could make these
work, so we had maintenance
contracts and things of that
nature that would help feed. But
the new portion and the new
system sales were off, just
non-existent. So my my dad had
to get back in a truck and climb
ladders again after you know
building a business that was
kind of running itself, which is
the dream of all business
owners, yeah, and you know, for
a majority of the early '90s, he
was back to doing grunt work,
and I'm not there, so I look at
that and I knock on wood. Am I
willing to do it? Of course, but
I used to compare. Well, Dad, at
his late 40s, was at least doing
this, they were taking
vacations, and I I can't even
afford that, so I would do that
a lot to myself. But confidence
is a memory of success, and a
lot of what you're talking
about, your brother being funny,
yeah, it
was an identity. You being a
guitar player, bass player,
musician was an identity, and if
you don't have identity early
on, that's tough,
yeah,
because my identity was wrapped
up in you know before I played
the drums it was RC cars and not
exactly a hit with girls, but as
soon as I started playing the
drums, I knew I was the fricking
man because it was so it was
such a natural thing for me. I
just knew how to play, and as
soon as I put myself out there
and playing with other people
and getting into those
communities, and then doing it
in school, and then all of a
sudden, these people that never
talked to you before see what
you can do, and they're like,
"Oh, wow, you're really
talented. And I became the
drummer in high school, the one
guy
became your hyper focus.
It became my focus. It became my
identity. It was a great
identity to have until it played
out, and then I, you know, got
out of high school, went to
college, lost my identity
because I wasn't having any
successes, and eventually, you
know, my father brought me into
his business, and he ended up
retiring. I learned it, learned
the electrical trade, learn, you
know, wasn't me, but again,
identity revealed itself once I
got in the radio because this is
me. I knew I'm in my element,
and a lot of life is that. A lot
of people go through feeling
less than because they're not
doing what they're meant to do.
I think a lot of white collar
people that took the beaten path
to college. Well, this is what
you're supposed to do.
This is what you
want to do. No, that's why a lot
of people around the age of 40
have these crises moments.
You'll find. How old are you? If
you don't mind me asking.
How? Whoa, turning 35.
Okay.
Yeah.
So you're entering the age. You,
but I think you're satisfied.
I'm too young
to not remember my age.
I think you're satisfied in
knowing this. You feel like
you're in your element doing
what you're doing.
Yeah,
you feel like this satisfies me.
I've got to. I'm confident about
it because I've been successful
at it. That that ties into all
these different things. But a
lot of people who got out of
college in their early 20s,
don't forget, dude. 20 to 40
sucks. It's the summer of your
life. You've got. I've got to
find a career. I've got to find
a spouse. I've got to meet all
these expectations. I've got
peer pressure. I got to make
sure I'm making financial
decisions. I got to buy a house.
I got to have kids. I got to
figure out how to be a dad. I
got to figure out my kids. I got
to figure out how to be a dude.
Oh my gosh, we never realize
that we never freaking put two
and two together and realize 20
to 40 can really suck. Okay,
until somebody like me comes
along and points out it's okay,
it's gonna suck. But as long as
you're aware of it, it'll
probably suck less.
Yeah,
you know what I mean. Oh yeah,
and then eventually you just
kind of-that's why a lot of
people get to like 37 to 43, and
they have a big shift in revel.
This is not what I want to do. I
don't want to be a CPA. What the
hell am I doing? I'd rather do
woodwork. I'm going to go work
with my hands. That's why you
see a lot of people doing that
point in their life. They switch
seasons. I see it all the time.
Happened to me.
I think it still. I think it
still happens. Yeah. There are
days where I feel like, oh god,
I don't want to do this anymore.
But then I get a phone call, and
then I'm like, oh my god, I I
just bailed that guy out. I I
provided a solution for that
guy. Right. My spirits are right
back up. I mean, it's just it's
such a roller coaster, and
that's sales too. I mean, it's
just like ups and downs. It's
like a toxic girlfriend. It
really is. I mean, it can be,
and you're still
early in the game. You're only
four years into doing this.
Yeah, well, in the industry for
like 10 years, but this is my
like four years in like outside
sales, and people have told me
that oh man, this is it's not
it's not wining and dining. It's
not going out to football games
or doing dinners, happy hour.
Like that's not what it is.
Because people, in my
experience, they'll gladly take
a free lunch.
They'll
they'll take a free dinner.
They'll they'll take a free
whatever. But that does not
guarantee you a sale. You have
to make sure that you're
persistent on that.
Right. You
have to you you have to justify
that money that's being put
towards, yeah. Oh yeah, whatever
schmoozing you you you're what
you do.
It's got to be cost justified.
Yeah, absolutely.
And
it's got to turn into some sort
of business at the end of the
day.
Yeah, that's somebody told me
that, which is I've I've worked
for so many distributors, and
yeah, I mean, I I heard a lot of
stories, a lot of uh, yeah, I
mean, they said that yeah, this
it's this is not the reality,
and I am, yeah, I can see it
now. I I definitely see it
because yeah, you can go after
that big fish, and you can eat
for a long time, but man, when
they that fish is done, then
it's like you have to start all
over. Oh yeah,
00 to zero. Car business was the
same way. Yeah, I mean, you
always try to get 15 to 20 cars
sold a month, which is probably
at this point low. But at the
Mercedes dealer, that was a good
paycheck. That was a great
paycheck.
It's kind of like a hunter and a
gatherer. I mean, like where I
still don't know where I am in
that spectrum, but I mean, like,
yeah. Do you want to gather and
then you know just live
comfortable, or do you want to
hunt? And
have you run across people that
are in their 40s and 50s that
you know constantly have
business coming their way? And
it's like, man, how do you get
to that position where they're
constant? Not until I
came around.
But I mean, that's a lot of
that, you know. Because in the
car business, I ran into people
that had committed to it like it
was a career. And every business
owner I've had on this podcast,
there's about a five year runway
time of when you realize you've
got some, okay, am I getting
traction in this, or is it time
to bail? You're four years into
doing essentially what amounts
to starting your own business.
When you're in sales, you're in
your own business,
100%
right, 100% You're the face of
it. People need to trust you
that you're gonna, you know, not
only with your like working for
Mercedes the way I did, I knew I
had I could have confidence in
our in our shop that no matter
what car went through our shop,
that it would be a really good
car for our pre-owned offerings,
certified or otherwise, because
our shop was just they took it
seriously. The guys in that in
the in the in the bays were just
there was just like lightning in
a bottle until it wasn't. But as
a salesperson, I had confidence
in everything I sold. Not so
much at the Honda dealer there
where I started because like
yeah, let's just put it out.
Yeah, but did you change the
oil? No, no, not yeah. We gotta.
I gotta deal with the freaking
headache of this if it blows up.
Okay, you know what do we do
here? Do we make sure we make
sure it's safe? Okay, what does
that mean? Well, the turn
signals work, the brake lights
work, you know, the brakes work.
What else you need? That the
engine's not gonna fricking
catch on fire. Yeah, you know
what I mean? At Mercedes, it was
a different. You felt confident
as a salesperson. That that's a
huge part of it. You know,
because that your integrity and
your reputation is only as good
as what's backing you up.
Yep.
You know what I mean?
Oh yeah. Would you encourage the
younger generation to sell cars
these days? Oh, absolutely.
Really? I
told my kids that I said if if
all else fails and you need
something to do, go wait tables,
go oh yeah sell cars, go go sell
something. Okay, go my my
daughter. You know again,
confidence being the memory of
success. She had a rough go of
it the first two years of
college. Came home this past
summer, got herself a job at a
new restaurant in Cool Springs,
and they love her, absolutely
adore her, and she's always the
front person taking the orders.
She always got a big old smile
on her face. I'm like, Kim, hate
to tell you this, but you're a
salesperson because you're good
at this,
yeah. I still just can't. I
can't get over that word. Well,
I guess we. It's okay. I just
don't like the word sales. Like
it's just embrace it. I know. I
guess I could
embrace it. You might as well.
That's what it is.
Sounds villainish.
No, it's just you know, as long
if you're you're getting people
to buy things that they don't
need or want. Yeah, yeah, okay,
yeah, that's a good point. If
you're helping them, you know,
somebody coming to a car lot and
and wanting to buy a car, look,
you're here for a reason. Okay,
my job is to try and figure out
what's the best option for you
and explain all the things to
the best of my ability, and make
sure that everything looks good
and it's copacetic for your
finances, and that's it. But
again, you know, it depends on
the institution you're working
for. When I worked for Mercedes
at that particular point in time
in Cool Springs, it was a we
didn't dare I say we had a term
in the in the business called
jicky jacking, and that was
basically, you know, jicky
jacking. So basically, trying to
finagle the customer into
something that you know, and
tell them whatever they needed
to hear in order to get the
sale. Well, that's not what we
did.
Okay,
we were a gentleman's floor. We
honored and respected each
other. We didn't try to snake
deals from one another. We
always tried to go above and
beyond to help each other out if
we needed something. It was a
good culture for a minute,
and
then all of a sudden it just
kind of went the crap. But
that's a whole nother story. But
when we sold cars, it was I
wasn't going to tell you
everything. I learned my own
voice in that situation that I
could put my head on a pillow at
night and be and be good. That's
what that's what mattered to me
because I've heard some doozies
from other salespeople. Oh yeah,
you could totally get the
incentivized rate, and I'd be
like, dude, I even know that you
shouldn't be telling them that.
Did you pull damn credit yet?
Well, we want the incentivized
rate. Okay, do you want to go
ahead and start a credit app
right now? This way, we can see
where you you you you size up,
and I can tell you it's a
possibility. I'm not going to
tell you you're going to get the
incentivized rate, because
that's up to the bank. That's up
not up to me.
Yeah.
So those were the different word
tracks I would use. That I'd be
like, that was honest. You know,
integrity.
Integrity. That I was being
honest. That's how it how it
works, and that's what earned me
a lot of sales. Is because I
would just simply shoot from the
hip, say things that they
weren't expecting. Well, you
know, you add points to the
financing, and yeah, do we do?
Yeah,
we do. Well, can why can't I?
You can you can go to the bank
and get a buy rate yourself, but
dude, this is a profit center
for us. This is how we how part
of how we make money.
Yeah,
and they'd be like, oh, yeah,
we're a business. We're not a
nonprofit. You know,
you you bring up a really good
point. I mean, like um, yeah,
maybe that's why I get the ick
from the word sales is because
yeah, it seems like I'm selling
some people a product or
something that they don't need.
Right. But and I think in a way
I feel like it's a it's a and
it's a disservice to what I do
on a daily basis. Like I'm not
just selling product. I'm
managing. I'm managing, managing
emotions, finding the right
solutions, whether it's rebates
or bottom dollar partnerships of
products that make sense for
their job applications. I mean,
like the list goes on, and it
just it's a big thing. And then
you got to chase money. You got
to chase money. Sometimes people
are not. They can. It could be
smoke and mirrors. Oh yeah. In
my experience, I've seen
customers or clients that are
just look like they hung the
moon, and then you put all your
eggs in one basket, and you're
just you're left. I'm speaking
from experience. Yeah, you got
this kind of just start all
over. But it was good. It's
good. I mean, and guess who did
the
selling in that situation? Ever
think about it that way?
Who did the selling in the
situation?
Yeah, somebody they think hung
the moon and they look great on
paper, and all of a sudden they
can't pay the bill. You got
sold. We're in a world of you're
a seller be sold. This is the
world in which we live-it's a
sell or be sold world. You're
either doing the selling or
you're being sold. Yeah, that's
true. To try and apply other
terminology to what it is that
you do is being intellectually
honest. Think about it that way.
You're a salesperson, man.
That's what it is. You're either
a good one or an intellectual,
honest one. Yeah, one that you
know people will send other. The
biggest thing, if you know
you're a good salespeople,
salesperson, is if your
customers send other people. You
know, you're doing it right when
that happens. They give you
referrals because they trust
you.
I love that.
No, that's a win.
Yeah,
and if that's not happening, you
got to figure out what you're
doing.
Well, I still love it. I love
the industry, and I think the
goal for me-and I'm just going
to put this out in the
universe-I would like to be a
coach of some sort. I mean, I
would like to just share my
experience of like what worked
and what didn't work. Yeah,
earn that. Earn that. Yeah, you
need to earn that. Yeah. Okay,
because there's so many people
out there that are trying to be
gurus, thought leaders, coaches.
Well, you know, I've had two
years of life. I'm going to be a
life coach, dear.
No, no, no, no, no, not life.
No, you need
good. You wait till you're in
your mid 40s, then start
coaching, because you got to get
beat up. You got to get some
black eyes. You got to get some
bruises, guts and scars, and all
the different things. You get
your life has got to look like
they got to get they. Your life
has to look like electricians'
hands. Okay, time in the
trenches, that you know, gritty,
rough, sandpapery feel, scar. I
call them trade tattoos. I got
them all over my hands when I
worked in the in the business.
Even when I I cut my thumb open
a couple weeks ago, opening up a
a package of XLR cables, and I
called that you know adventures
in podcasting. I didn't go to
the I didn't go to the ER and
get it. I wanted it to grow back
as a scar because I'm proud of
it.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I would have the I would
tell the
story.
I know. Well, I would have done.
You should have seen the other
guy trade
tattoos is what I call them.
It's a big thing,
you know.
So,
well, anyway, I um again for
viewers what what I what I do.
I'm an account manager for
electrical distribution. Um,
yeah, when I tell people that,
they they like, what what is
that? How do you? That's
corporate gobbledygook. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I sell
electrical parts with integrity,
and I solve my customers'
problems to the best of my
ability. I believe that
everybody needs a good supplier
on their side that's got their
back that's going to try and
reduce the amount of headaches
that they're already dealing
with. That's a great way to
approach what you do. Well, if
somebody asks you what you do,
tell them what you believe.
Okay,
I believe that every single GC
out there, an electrical
company, needs somebody on their
side that's looking out not only
for their bottom line, but also
getting them the best parts, the
best service, the you know, the
the best marketable products
that we can get in their hands
as quickly as possible, so they
can get the job done for their
clients. That's what I do.
What do you say to someone
that's like? I mean, I know I'm.
I'm still. I guess I'm kind of
young, but from somewhere
between their 20s and 30s,
they're just still trying to
figure life out. I guess
there's. So many different
variables to this. I mean, like
I would say, if you don't like
your job, but you're good at it
and you don't, it's not
something you feel like you want
to do. Find another avenue that
you could still do this field,
but not have to do the everyday
grunt work that you're doing.
Like try to find different
avenues where you can sort of
develop a core, and then just
sort of see where it takes you
from there. Instead of just
dropping what you're doing just
to try something different.
Like, does that make sense? And
not asking it in a form of
question. You got
to have a little bit of overlap.
Yeah,
you know, hey, I want to evolve
where that's always a natural
desire, the human of us to want
to evolve what we're doing, we
want to feel like we're moving
forward. To be stagnant is not
not a good feeling. If you're in
a position that you know you're
not, like we know it
intrinsically. Like when I was
working as an electrician, I, as
much as I enjoyed the work, I
knew it wasn't me then. I knew I
had something else to do. I had
an itch to scratch, and I knew
it had to do with broadcasting
or music or whatever music. I
wasn't going to pursue because I
had no idea where to begin. Now
that I see people in that
industry living the life, it's
not a life I would have wanted.
But going into broadcasting and
radio ultimately was my element,
and I was lucky enough to know
that and be aware of it at the
time. A lot of people didn't
understand it. My parents didn't
understand it until I moved
here, and they saw the awards
I've won and how people just we
had such you know respect for
one another inside the building,
and like they literally said,
"Wow, you were you really are
good at this. I'm like, "Yeah,
I've only been doing it for 10
years, but glad to finally see
that I've got your nod of
approval. So that was a thing.
But when you what to to your
point, there's got to be stages
if you want to move. If you're
not, you know you're good at
what you do, but you can't stand
it. Then it's incumbent upon you
to make the choice that I'm
going to find the one thing that
I like about
it.
I'm going to find the one thing
that gives me joy about
it-that's that's my
responsibility because I've got
my backs in the corner. Okay,
I've got a house payment, I've
got kids, I've got a wife, I've
got the insurances, the car
payments. It's bigger than you
at that point. Now you can
either choose to be grumpy about
it, or you can choose to get
great at what you hate and turn
it into something that you like,
and then figure out what the
next step is. Like you're
talking about, if it's not
selling this, then what are the
selling? You're good at selling.
You could sell something. What's
something I'm passionate about
selling? Is it guitars? Is
it
musical instruments? Is it
working for GC Pro and making a
ton? Because those those guys
make good money. Not the guys in
Guitar Center, but the guys who
are doing the commercial jobs,
selling studio equipment to
studios. That's something I
would excel at.
Yeah,
but this is my this is my
element. This is my superpower.
Doing what I do here, and I know
that, and I'm good at
it. I second that.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah,
but that's the key to a lot of
things. Is just if you're aware
that you're not happy, or it's
incumbent upon you again,
reiterating, find out what the
joy is, find out what it is that
you're you're good at, and and
find if you can. I tell my kids
this: find the one joy, and you
know if that one joy is the
lampstand in the dark dark room.
Then great, cling to it. Maybe
the other things will light up,
and it's not just like throwing
a towel. And oh, this is what
I'm doing. Oh, there's other
things that you can do. Watch
out for opportunity when it
comes along, and if it's
congruent with what you do, go
for it. So, that's my take on
it.
Thank you, because
I've been there.
Yeah,
you know, I got out of the
electrical business because my
foreman came up to me, and I
admittedly I was a little bit of
a cancer, probably in the
organization because I had one
foot out the door, and he
basically said, "Look, you know,
I need you to kind of be better
at not expressing your disdain
for the industry and what you're
doing, or leave. And I said, I
appreciate that. I think I think
I'm going to leave, and I left.
Well, okay, so I was hesitating
in bringing that up, but um, and
so this was back in 2014, I
believe,
2014 15. When I was a, I was a
counter guy for a small
independent supply house, and
this was around the time that we
got this new person in office,
and I was in a different
direction. And man, it was just
so discouraging. I mean, I don't
want to turn this into a
political conversation, but it
was hard for me. And I would
consider myself young and naive
back then, like just. Hearing
every day people that would come
in and get their coffee, and
they-it was tough. It was
really, really tough. And then
I, it affected my work a lot too
because I would have to hear it.
And when they, when he said this
thing about Mexicans, and I was
just like, ah, being Latino that
was kind of hard. And but maybe
I just took that way too.
Looking back, I think I just
took that way too personally,
and it was a part of something
that I held too much as an
identity. But anyway, what I'm
saying is that that really,
really affected me, and I that's
kind of where it got me
discouraged. I don't want to do
this anymore if I'm going to be
surrounded by people like that.
And I mean, over time, I think
it shifted a little bit. Like
it's it's as far as like how I
handle myself and how I present
myself. I don't have to agree
with everything you say, but
like I mean, I I can't. I do
have control of how I present
myself and how I contain myself,
and so yeah, I mean that is I
almost left the electrical
distribution the industry
because of that. No,
there was one thing like the car
business was the college for me,
and I learned so much in that
business. One of the things was
you know exactly what you were
talking about. You said the key
word, guy. I concentrate on what
I can control. You know, you
can't. I had a podcast client
that was politically opposed to
what I believe, but I still love
her. I still talk to her today.
Yeah, I don't agree with her
politically. You know, at the
time that you know Trump was
elected again in 2024, she came
in. The first thing she said
was, "I hope you know what
you're getting into. I'm like,
"You don't even know who I voted
for. Yeah, this is how vague
I've been. Okay, but yes, it's
obvious that you and I are
politically opposed. I said,
"But that doesn't mean we can't
get along. We need to start
having empathy for each other.
This is where the country needs
to go, and I have control to
embrace you. Yeah, I said, but
you know, at the same time, I
will say, what happened to all
your voters? But that's a whole
other
point. I mean, isn't that kind
of what separates us from from
animals? You know, like we were
actually able to sit down and
have a conversation. Yeah, I
think that's what makes this
country so great too. And I'm
just, you know, I learned that a
little bit later because I was
just so bitter. Like I don't
want to. I didn't want to have a
conversation with somebody who
who had different different
point of view that I had. But we
mentioned Mike. Mike Harris. I
he he had a great perspective on
life, and he and I were at that
time. I was a dumb liberal kid,
but he was a very conservative
Republican. Yeah. But he said a
lot of things that make a lot of
sense to me, and I was able to
sort of shape my views from him.
I mean, I do give him a lot of
credit. I would listen a lot of
things. I'm like, well, I at the
end of the day never looked at
it that way. Right, and then
yeah, I guess I from that point
I kind of stopped surrounding
myself with people that are just
like super negative or very
one-sided and are not willing to
have a conversation. And amazing
when
that happens. It's amazing
what you can accomplish. Yeah, I
wish we can go back to that as a
society.
We're we're getting back to it.
The book, the book over my
shoulder. I always point to
Pendulum. It it actually
outlines everything that we're
going through with eerie timing,
like where we're we're supposed
to be right where we are right
now.
Is it Pendulum or Pendulum?
Pendulum.
This one, right? This this
book right here.
Okay,
and it basically talks about
everything we're going through.
It goes back 3000 years with
patterns of societal attitudes
and things of that nature. We're
right on schedule with how
things are, and it's actually
the darkest swing point of the
pendulum that we just went
through. So every 80 years, we
go through something that's
really dark, and typically ends
up in a bloody reset. So, 80
years ago was World War II.
Before that was the Civil War.
Before that was Revolutionary
War. At least here in the you
know Western side of things. But
it's almost like clockwork
because generations dictate how
we kind of look at life. You
know, Vietnam went the way it
did because of the juxtaposition
of the attitudes of the
generations. You had a lot of
people who served in World War
II who had national pride and
honor, and and we we defeated
the bad guys and the Nazis and
the Japanese and blah blah blah.
That turned into cynicism in 20
years because, well, why are we
getting involved with Vietnam,
we didn't know why. It's like
the Ukraines and the Russians. I
think a lot of the Russians had
a run for their money in these
recent skirmishes that they've
had, battles and war and stuff
like that. Because a lot of the
Russians are going, why are we
doing this again? I honestly
think that's a big part of it.
Like we're Putin. Wants this? I
don't get why we're doing this.
Why are we going after our
neighbors? I'll do it because
that's what I'm told to do.
World War II, we knew why.
Yeah,
that's what united the entire
thing. Vietnam guys were going
over there, is going, why are we
doing this again? Why are we
losing 55,000 people, and then
coming home to get you know
being called baby killers and
having fruit thrown at us as
we're walking off the plane, why
am I doing this? Because you
were drafted, you know, people
had to be drafted into it,
forced to do it. So there was
you know a lot of these things
kind of flip flop throughout
history, and typically around
that 80 year mark where we are,
we have a calamity. So sort of
you know everyone's talking
about civil war and you've got
all these nuances, all these
concepts, left versus right, men
versus female. You know what is
a woman? You know trans men in
sport. Every which way they can
divide is happening right now,
man.
But the one thing they're not
talking about, they're kind of
talking about it, and I love the
fact that the property tax
argument's gaining traction in
Florida because that could
spread like wildfire like that.
The next conversation to have is
the IRS and federal income
taxes, and I want that to happen
because they got it. Stop them!
That's one thing we can all
unite around. That is something
that we can all get behind and
unite and and just be like shut
down the flipping IRS and end
the federal income tax
permanently. Nobody ever wants
to do it because they don't know
how. They don't know how to
rally. Well, how are we going to
fund the government? I don't
care. When we have enough money
to send billions of dollars to
come to other countries, we're
being taxed too much. I think
that's my rant.
I think at this point, jeez, I'm
actually having a
vein pop out in my head. My
gosh,
I see it now. You have two. I
think I don't know. I think
we're just so desensitized now,
and
well, we got to reverse that
because we're okay with too much
bullshit. We are okay with being
taxed to the hilt. There's, you
know, what my income is
government noneya. It's none of
your business. None of your
business is how much how much I
make. That's the way it should
be. That's the way the
forefathers wanted it, and
that's where we need to get back
get back to. But nobody talks
about that because that's a
uniting thing. We can all agree
on that, for the most part.
Yeah, I mean, isn't that the
goal? I mean, do we want to be
united or do we not, or do we
want to have a purpose by
dividing because it feeds our
ego or feeds our our identity?
The more you divide, the more
controllable you are.
And once you agree, you see that
on both sides. It's just yeah,
they don't want peace. I mean,
because it's like everything
that they've built their
character on. Like you know, I
this is me. I voted red, and
this is me. I voted blue. I I
had different pronouns, so I use
this as my shield. And I don't
know, like what's the
they're inconsequential tertiary
concepts that really have no
bearing. That was a
big word, Jim.
They have no bearing on what
really happens and how it
affects us. But yet, nobody ever
makes the equation that for
three months to six months out
of the year, you work for the
government, ever think about it
that way? That really pisses
people off. Oh, I never thought
about it that way. How much of
every dollar you make has to go
to their freaking pockets? Oh,
by the way, you have to prove it
to them, and you're guilty until
proven innocent. Because if they
come to your door, what happens?
You get a letter from the IRS.
Your heart jumps into your
throat. What the crap? Why am I?
Why are they sending me a
letter? It's never for anything
good.
Yeah.
Am I right or wrong? Nobody gets
pissed off enough about that.
No. Because
they're all afraid. That's how
we're controlled. How do we get
on this tangent?
I don't know, Jim. I was. I
mean, you can either choose
leave it in or cut it out. I
don't care. I always leave it
on.
Well, I mean, as
far as like composure goes, you
know, it's about how you react.
I'm just gonna yeah say this
right now I'm kind of going
through that with my son like
with a
how old is
he? He's he's nine he's nine
years old, and one day he told
me, "Daddy, I'm a they them. I'm
like, I know what it meant, but
like he's like, well, what does
that mean? I'm like, oh well,
like I don't. I'm not a boy or a
girl. I'm a, I, I'm, I'm either
or. I'm like, well, son, why do
you? Why did you say that? Why,
what makes? I mean, again, like,
what makes you think that? I
mean, well, I like to, I like to
wear nightgowns. I like to paint
my nails, and like. Well, your
son, you're just experimenting.
That's fine, you know. I mean, I
used to grab my mom's makeup and
make Kiss paint my face look
like Kiss. You know what I mean?
Like, you know, I was
experimenting. You know, like
that's nothing wrong with that.
You doesn't have to. You don't
have to put a label on it. And I
just think that this just, I
don't know. We just seek too too
much comfort in labels.
Well, I think a lot of it's it's
the world. The world's going to
speak into your kids' lives,
whether you like it or not.
Yeah,
they're going to find a way. If
you tell them not to do
something, they're going to find
a way to do it anyway. So our
biggest thing with our kids is
communication, open lines of
communication, knowing that they
could talk to one or both of us
without any repercussions, that
it's going to be a conversation.
Look, we get it, your kids,
you're going to mess up. Doesn't
mean you're not going to be
without consequence or
accountability. Yeah, but we
could talk through these things
for your son who's nine and be
like, I think identifying what
you're hearing from the world
versus what you're hearing from
us, a big thing, and I learned
this from a friend of mine who
he's got a nonprofit called
Stronger Than My Father, and
when his kids kind of go and
echo things that they hear from
it, he uses, "Hey, well, you
didn't learn that from us, and
he really, you know, especially
as they get older in the teenage
years and they're more
susceptible for influence and
stuff like that. Audit where
you're marinating your mind, and
that's one of the things that my
kids have heard me say as a
concept: marinating your mind
and good stuff. Since I was
self-employed, essentially, and
they used to make fun of me for
it. Oh, marinating my mind! I
said, well, you know. And
Courtney, my wife, would point
out, she's like, but they're
repeating it. They're the
concept is there. The seeds are
planted. They're going to
understand what it means to
marinate their mind. You can
choose to marinate your mind in
what the world's telling you, or
listen to your inner voice, Holy
Spirit, if you will, or however
you're. There's there's
something in our gut feelings
that there's something wrong
with this. Okay, the world tells
us one thing, but intrinsically
we know there's something off.
So, son, you can either listen
to the world; you have that
choice, or you can listen to
what your gut's telling you, or
you can learn from what your mom
and dad are telling you because
you're still nine years old and
still, dare I say, programmable
at that point, that's the world
getting past the defenses.
Yeah. Well, thank you for
listening, Jim. That was kind of
like a yeah. That's something
I'm kind of struggling with
right now. That's you're not
alone. It's it's not just that
the pronouns. It's not just
that. I mean, it's just it's
just the fact that it's forced,
and I just want my son to have
accountability.
Just probably want your son to
have a good, fun childhood.
Be just be a normal boy. No, I
mean I don't know. I think I
don't want to use the word
normal, but like just like you
know,
just be a just be a kid. Be
a kid. This is too heavy of a
concept for you to consider
right now.
And
and even telling them, look,
dude, you're nine. You have no
idea what's freaking up and down
right now. You have no idea.
These concepts are completely
way out of your purview. You
know what you think you know
versus what is reality are two
entirely different things. Okay,
if anybody else is in your
school telling you this, I want
to know about it.
Yeah,
you know, there's a lot of, and
you know, I'm probably showing
my hand, but just by having this
conversation, but I don't really
care because it needs to be
said, my kids are at the point,
like again, per the pendulum.
What started out 20 some odd
years ago in the tipping point
of a pendulum seems like a good
idea, but when we come to the
zeniths of the swing and the
pendulum swings, a good idea
gone too far, and that's where
we are right now. Doesn't
everything seem like
everything's gone too far?
Right?
It feels like a fight fire with
fire society.
Yeah.
Ah, I am
like the concepts of what we're
talking about. Well, I'm you
know I'm a man and I want to be
playing women's sports. Okay.
What? Wait, what? You know what
I mean? That's that's the kind
of thing. Like that's taking a
concept too far. Like, well, you
just got to be okay with it. No,
I don't. No, I. You know, and
that this the the when you have
these types of conversations in
the world, my even my own kids
are starting to see the
ludicrousness of what we're
dealing with in the world.
So you have hope that it'll
sort. It'll come back around the
pendulum.
The pendulum. The
pendulum. You know, even they're
starting to see. You know, my
dare I say, liberally minded
college attending daughter had a
recent Interaction with her
quote friends of the same
political bent that was
unsavoring, and her one
conservative friend, who's like
a cherished friend, is like you
know she's starting to realize
oh I'm starting to get it, and
it just. Sometimes just got to
let it play out and have faith.
Yeah, I used to use the saying
all. I mean, I was really
liberal until liberals ruined it
for me. I'm sure people who are
conservative too say the same
thing. I was conservative. Well,
I mean, with what I do, I depend
on a good. You got to have a
good economy to like survive in
what I do because people got to
build, people have to. We
anyway.
I know.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not a. I am. I
have not. I. I don't know what's
going on, Jim. I'm. I'm not
going to speak on politics. Like
I don't know what's going on. I
chose to, like, find peace in my
life in other ways. But I think
this will kind of come back
around. What I do understand is
behavior. Yeah, I can understand
that. That makes sense to me. I
think you know anyone can do
that. There's nothing
significant, but like, and I
think kind of kind of goes back
to the home, you know, in your
childhood. Like, I mean, I
remember we were poor. We didn't
have a lot. We, but we we didn't
know that though. We were just
having fun. I mean, like, oh,
you know, mom was making a
hamburger helper. Yeah, I love
hamburger helper. You know,
yeah, we had a good child. We
got we got fed, and we we didn't
know what was going on because I
think you know our parents. They
they've they didn't throw it at
you. They they didn't they
didn't unleash their stresses of
every day. I mean, like it's
your job to make your kids feel
safe. Right. And then all of a
sudden, we started you know a
quality of life has changed a
little bit. We started having
things. We started doing little
things, and you just appreciate
it. And just So, yeah, I'm.
There was something to that, and
I'm. I think I just got lost on
that, Jim. I apologize. Are you
good?
Yeah,
I think what you're trying to
say is the fact that not not
blissful ignorance, but you just
were happy with your situation
growing up, and then more
exposure to the world can be
typically a tough adjustment if
you don't have good foundation.
Yeah,
you know, biblical to say, you
know, I'm on this on this rock.
I shall build my church.
He
built it on a rock for a reason,
okay? Because it's got stable
foundation. You build your house
on sand. What's going to happen?
It's going to fall down. So,
having those foundations, having
harbors to kind of be able to go
to, and having an anchor that
holds you tight in the storm
when storms happen is important.
And a lot of people, I think,
are lacking that these days. And
a lot of it to me comes down to
faith. You know, I'm a believer,
not a perfect one by any stretch
of the imagination, but I know
what the truth is, if that makes
sense. And that's that's my
anchor. You know, at the end of
the, you know, at the end of all
this,
yeah,
I know who wins and who loses.
Okay, and a lot of these things
are starting to come to light.
You know, I'll control what I
can control. If I can convince
somebody to not pay their taxes
or fricking not file or or claim
as many dependents as possible
and flip off the government,
then great. I think that should
happen. All right, Institute a
national sales tax. I'm good
with that. Fair tax, beautiful.
I don't want to have to be, you
know, reconciling to the some
alphabet agency. Tangent.
Yeah. I tell everybody it's your
world. I'm just passing through.
You're right. Yeah. Well,
anything else you want to talk
about or bring up? We've had a
multitude of topics. Yeah,
I mean, I'm nice and relaxed
now. Yeah. Anything else we want
to talk about? I would say,
hmm,
no to college if it makes sense,
if it makes sense, yeah, I
think. But I would never.
If some, if somebody else is
paying for it, yeah, and you
know why you're going, great.
Well, Ivy, my stepson, for an
example, he is in Missouri to. I
know he's gonna hate me for
saying this, but like, yeah,
well, he's studying acting, and
he's a good kid. I think he's
got his he's got things figured
out. But I remember telling him
like, well, instead of going
into debt for college to be a
Broadway actor, why don't you
just
go to Broadway?
Go to Broadway. No, well, no.
Now I was gonna say, like, why
don't you just invest maybe
$5,000.06, $6,000 on camera
equipment, lighting. Start
making your own films. Like,
start making, start doing things
like that. I mean, I think
that's a lot cheaper than going
into hundreds of 1000s of
dollars in debt. But anyway, I
could be off on that. But I
mean,
there are a lot of people that
are like the next generation
crop of actors and creatives.
They're all on Tik. You know
Instagram, self
monetize,
right? There's a there's a woman
named Manon Matthews. I think I
hope I'm saying Manan, but she
started out making vines back in
the day that were comedic. She
had a natural talent, and then
it's kind of evolved into what
it is now, and she's making a
living at it. And a lot of
people, you need to get the
Saturday Night Live, you you'd
be perfect for Saturday Night
Live, and she says I'd love to
be on it, but I don't need
it. So
she's got the leverage, you
know. I've already created this
thing for myself. It's paying my
bills. I don't need to be a
struggling actor. If they if
they'll have me, great, I'll do
it.
You know,
what doesn't mean I'm going to
stop everything else I'm doing.
What's one thing on your fee
that you just like? Oh my God,
that's just that's incredible,
and that required literally no
money to do, and it's just
interesting. Mine is is cooking,
is cooking meals. That is is a
reference to a movie scene, like
a Pulp Fiction, the burger
scene. Right. Then you got
somebody flipping a burger,
creating that big Kahuna burger.
Yeah.
While it's like I guess like a
dual screen, and then you have
that scene, and then you're
making the burger at the same
time. I love those, and you just
you just cook a recipe, and you
can just monetize on that. Like
those are fun. Those are just so
fun to watch. I have
a podcast that's been sitting on
a shelf for the past several
years now called Capes and
Hammers, and it's us just
talking about you know the DC
Marvel universe stuff and you
know, Avengers and stuff that I
you know kind of got into late
in life. That all of a sudden it
overtook like that was like a
hobby, and it was so much fun to
talk about all the different
nuanced plot lines and all the
detail work that went into these
movies, and how everybody in the
country in the world seemed to
fall in love with these
characters all over again
because of one little movie,
Iron Man, that started all the
whole thing, and it's like even
the the bobbing and weaving and
improvising that you know Kevin
Feige and all these guys that
were in charge had to figure out
in order to make you know a 23
movie saga that of of
awesomeness. You know, if you're
really into that, I I was never
in the comics growing up, but I
started a podcast talking about
it, dude. It's we haven't put
out an episode in years. It
still gets downloads. That's
something I should, you know, we
really need to revisit and
revive. But you're not wrong. I
mean, there's there's people on
the electricians on Instagram.
Yes,
right. Oh
yeah.
They'll set up a camera up at a
tripod and do like a time lapse
of somebody dressing out a
freaking panel. That's
fascinating to watch. It's
really cool.
Yeah.
You know, especially all the
women that are getting into it.
Awesome. I love it. I love the
fact that you know women are
getting into playing the drums
because thank you, Annika from
Rush, and you know they're
getting into the trades.
Come
on, let's let's make it work. I
think it's great.
I love
it. And you know, women are
seeing that. Like, hey, I can do
this. Absolutely, you don't have
to go to college. Go to learn a
trade. Yeah, learn how to run
wire. Get dirty like the rest of
us,
you know, yeah, yeah, Jim. I
think that's all I had. Yeah, I
think why I why I love doing
what I do, it it's allowed me to
fill in the holes that I felt
like I was lacking in my in in
me growing up, I was able to
become a problem solver. I was
able to build relationships. I
was able to understand urgency,
and at the same time, learning
about a trade. Yeah, till this
till this day, I still love what
I do. I love I love the
connections I make, and I just
being able to bail somebody out
from a phone, like just a phone
call away,
buddy.
Yeah,
I'll leave you with this. My
brother once told me, he says,
if you're getting out of bed
every morning wondering why you
have to go do what you're going
to do again, and you're finding
it really tough to put two feet
on the floor from your bed,
that's not a good place to be.
Yeah, if you find yourself in a
situation like that, it is
incumbent upon you to figure
something out. You got to figure
something else out. That's no
way to go through life. So, if
you're getting out of bed with a
spring in your step, eager to
get to work, you're in a good
position. It's a balance, pros
and cons. As long as there's
more pros,
677.
With that being said, if you got
any value out of this particular
episode, as always, share it
out. mmtbp.com is a website to
go to. You can apply to be on
the show. You can do all sorts
of stuff. Download latest
episodes. Watch the episodes if
you want to watch these things.
Clips are there. All those fun
things. How can people find and
follow you, mr. Esteban? Are you
on social media doing anything?
Um, you
should be.
I am on LinkedIn, and I will
share that that name with Jim
after the after the episode.
The other aspect of this is
like, dude, you know how many
products can you can you review?
You can make a whole channel out
of.
You know what, Jim? I did. I
attempted that, and I made one
episode, and I never got back
into it. This is what I got out
of this. Is I'm going to start
doing that. I got to do more of
that.
You might you might be
overcomplicating it. We could
talk about that. Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
We'll unpack that after we're
done here. Anyway, guys, thanks
for listening. MMTBP.com. That
is the website where you can go
to
mostlymiddletennesseebusinesspodcast.com,
which is a lot longer to type.
It's up to you.
mmtbp.dmmtbp.com. I am Jim
McCarthy, your host. Esteban,
thanks for coming out, brothers.
is long overdue. Thank you so
much, Jim. I appreciate you.