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Welcome to I’m Not Even Supposed to Be Here Today, a conversational, culture-savvy podcast for folks trying to make sense of a world that has gone sideways. We’re here to unpack the issues that boggle our minds, all rooted in a little history, a little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy, and a little humility.
Chris Bevolo (00:00)
was talking to a recent college graduate.
Who had no AI experience and was going into a field that I knew pretty well. And I was like, you gotta, you know, you're have to take AI training and blah, blah, blah. And they were like, no, AI is terrible. AI kills the environment. AI you know, is the data centers are where the most vulnerable people are. It's in marginalized communities. And look at Memphis. And and I thought, well, okay, all those are fair. Those are all fair points.
Desiree ep20 (00:28)
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (00:38)
Hello, welcome everybody at episode 220 of I'm Not Even Supposed to Be Here Today, our conversational cultural savvy podcast for folks trying to make of the sense of the world that's gone hot. That's gone hot today. A little inside joke for you. We're here to unpack the issues that boggle our minds, all rooted in a little history, a little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy, and a little humility. I am Chris Bevolo, owner of Bering 287.
Organization fighting the good fight to make s the world a better place for all. And the sponsor of the show. And I'm joined by my co host Des, who's a social impact com strategist by day, and who spends her nights a remixing history to make sense of the present. Hello, Des.
Desiree ep20 (01:22)
Good morrow, Christopher. I I have the Eddie Murphy skit from SNL Days Gone By of when he was doing basically a my god. my god. He was like hot in the hot tub. Do you remember that one? James Brown, there we go. I was like James Earl Jones, no different. Yeah, that's where my mind went. Very different.
Chris Bevolo (01:37)
Get hot James Brown. Yeah. Get hot in a hot tub. Different.
Very different. Yeah, that was James Brown. and I'm only recently been introduced to Charlie Murphy because I never watched a Dave Chappelle show and wow, he's funny too. I know, I know.
Desiree ep20 (02:00)
What? You you missed
all is this when you were like raising a family and stuff? Busy.
Chris Bevolo (02:06)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I watched the Dave Chappelle
show every once in a while, but I didn't like watch it religiously. and I've just seen clips of Charlie Murphy telling the story of when they met Prince and then the Rick James one too. yeah, very good, very good. so anyway, welcome everybody. We are going to talk about
Desiree ep20 (02:21)
Rick Prince and Rick James.
Chris Bevolo (02:35)
What what I'm going to say a week ago is just like a little buzz, and now is wherever you turn. And that is the the backlash to AI, which has just gone through the roof, screaming up the charts to the top of the charts. we got people booing commencement speakers. of course we have had data center construction protests. Even the Pope came out against AI.
yesterday, which I think just puts like a perfect little cherry on top. So we're gonna dive into that, us and everybody else and their mother, apparently, because boy, everybody's talking about it now. but I'm gonna say we're the first to claim the idea of the Scarlet AI that that that you may be branded with the Scarlet AI. So we'll get into that. but first, as we have a controversy, I think we need to talk about and this has come up
Desiree ep20 (03:32)
Controversy.
Chris Bevolo (03:35)
Well, I don't know if we're gonna be to get through this one. this has come up a couple times recently. And I'm gonna just describe the place where it probably had the most gravity, which was at the Joe Public Retreat in February, which is this event that I used to to host with CMOs from around the healthcare industry. And we to introduce everybody, I asked everybody to to give their hot take. And
You know, like one hot take was Taylor Swift is overrated. It was all over the place. but one person's hot take, probably the Taylor Swift comment, caused the most buzz. But the second highest buzz was listening to an audiobook is not reading a does not count as reading the book. And I'm listening to two audiobooks plus my podcasts.
Desiree ep20 (04:26)
Mm.
Chris Bevolo (04:33)
Plus I've now finally, finally, finally got into notebook LM to turn stuff into like little podcasts, which I have a funny story for that too. But Des, where are you at on this sh I don't want to call it the Mason Dixon line, but it's gonna come to fisticuffs, I think, between people. Yeah.
Desiree ep20 (04:57)
You know, I would say I'm I'm in the camp of an audiobook is consuming a book, especially for those whose brains are wired differently. And I'm one of those people whose brains are wired differently. I -- you know, in school I struggled with completing my reading assignments, like reading these whole like novels or whatever in school. And I feel like had I been in school today where there w I had access to an audible.
I would have done a lot better in school because I am more of a I always say like I say this at work, like on calls with coworkers. I'm like, well, I'm a visual learner, I'm a whatever learner, because like me just like reading the things, like I I need to be able to paint in picture. and audio allows me to be able to do that. 'cause then when I'm reading, my mind just like, like tangent. Like I I leave I leave the page and then I have to like reread it like several times. So I would say
you know, open your your minds to folks that whose brains work a little a little differently and have some different cognitive things going on. so I'm team audiobook is consuming a book. Where did you land?
Chris Bevolo (06:07)
I'm on the same I'm in the same place. if you're consuming a book, I the experience is totally different. So there's there is that, but it's still you're still consuming the content of a book. You still walk away theoretically, knowing what was in the book and being able to speak about what was in the book and learning from the book or getting entertainment from the book. So you know, I understand that there's like a purity kind of play at at that, but
You know, as you were talking though, I was thinking about the differences. And I gotta be honest, the thing that you struggled with, which I think I'm I'm sure a lot of people struggle with, is the thing that I like up still about reading an actual book, because I have the opposite experience. I get lost in the book. And I that does not happen with an audiobook. I mean, the only place where that happens on an audiobook for me is when I'm driving, because there's nothing else to do. I'm just driving, I'm on autopilot.
And I can get taken away. But usually I'm listening to an audiobook when I'm doing something else. That's the whole point. And so I don't get taken away. I'm I'm working in the garage. I'm doing whatever. I'm mowing the lawn. so yeah, I mean, I'd love reading a good book and just getting like lost in the story. so yeah. Well, good, we're on the same side.
Desiree ep20 (07:10)
Mm.
Yeah. We are.
Well, I I also get it from that standpoint of like like back in college, like essentially rewriting my notes from class, like helped it sink in a little better. So I could see where people are like, like it doesn't sink in if you don't well I'm like, Well, honey, I'm not taking a test after this. I'm just consuming the knowledge and maybe hopefully applying it either to my life or work or just for entertainment value. So get off my back.
Chris Bevolo (07:57)
Well, I think we have a regular listener who I will not out in that way. who was the one who raised his or her hand to say that. So we'll see. we encourage that listener if you hear this episode and you are the one to please send in your arguments on the opposing side because you're you got two podcasters here that feel strongly about listening to that audiobook. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Desiree ep20 (08:22)
Shots fired.
Chris Bevolo (08:27)
speaking of shots fired, let's get into this. it's the AI backlash, it's the Scarlet AI, or will it be the Scarlet AI? And we got all kinds of stuff we can talk about. But maybe, maybe Des, just just kick us off with just like how is where are you at with this? Like, why are we why are we even talking about this now for you?
Desiree ep20 (08:51)
Yeah, for me, AI, my AI journey started because of work. And, you know, back when I was at a marketing agency a couple of years ago, it was really in like the the introduction of the Chat GPT and having access to this, it was like, okay, like go learn this thing because this is the future. And so I was in an environment that was very bullish on AI. so it was it was kind of exciting to just be able to just have access and like do all the things and experiment and just kind of be able to be able to do that.
but then I have s since switched careers and I'm in a place where, you know, we're a little bit more thoughtful around this and and so there isn't there's a lot more regulation around AI usage at the workplace and it felt like such a huge like whiplash to that. And in a way it almost like it's I remember there was moments especially earlier on in AI where it felt like, like, you're using AI, like you're
You know, that's cheating or da da da. And especially like right now with you know who's using it, it almost does kind of feel like you have to I in a way I feel like I've gone back in the closet because I'm not openly talking like I went from helping clients, you know, navigate AI, apply it to their own, you know, work streams to like dare not speak her name.
So then of course it definitely like I'm feeling like Hester Prynn over here. Like if you do say that you use AI, that you know, you're branded with that sc scarlet letter AI on your chest. and also the other piece is like friends of mine that are in because I I come from the creative world, content. And so a lot of my friends that are into like film, video, you know, they're very much anti it AI and all that, and that it's like the death of art and all that.
But meanwhile, I'm actually kind of lowkey excited about more of the creative possibilities of AI. especially for depending on your skill set. Like I'm not a like I I I don't animate. I'm not a graphic designer. I'm I'm not a a writer in that way. And I and I'm able to express the ideas that are like bubbling up in my head, and I'm able to express them in a way that I really haven't visioned, that I don't have that actual
talent to do. so is that like wrong? Is that like like should I go to jail for that? Or like, I don't know, but is that so wrong?
Chris Bevolo (11:16)
Is that so wrong? Who said that? Do you remember that? Is
that so wrong? Harvey Feirstein? I feel like it was Harvey Feirstein on Saturday Night Live or something. I don't remember. Anyway. So that's where you're at. Okay.
Desiree ep20 (11:22)
What's that from?
Wow. So yeah. W yeah, what about you?
Chris Bevolo (11:33)
Well, I I what's what's interesting to me is how quickly this just blew up.
it's not like we haven't, you know, from the from the from when chat GPT was released and this really all started in 2022, I think there have definitely been people opposed to AI. Like that's not a new thing. but I would say that those voices were lost in a sea of what the hell is AI, or how do I use AI, or AI is cool, or we gotta use AI at work, or when are we gonna use AI? Like it was just one of the voices.
It wasn't the voice and the speed with which this just became a cultural thing. I mean, it's literally like a week. I feel like it was a week. It went from two weeks ago where you had camps again, but it was just like dispersed to what I think is the primary cause was the commencement speech booing, which brought it to the forefront. and now it's just again like when we were preparing for this podcast.
I I mean every media outlet that I look at, which is probably one to two dozen over the course of a week, has something on the AI backlash or more than one something, right? And so it's just huge. and and so in some ways it's like, okay, it's it's real now. it became the first time I really encountered it face to face was I was talking to a recent college graduate.
Who had no AI experience and was going into a field that I knew pretty well. And I was like, you gotta, you know, you're have to take AI training and blah, blah, blah. And they were like, no, AI is terrible. AI kills the environment. AI you know, is the data centers are where the most vulnerable people are. It's in marginalized communities. And look at Memphis. And and I thought, well, okay, all those are fair. Those are all fair points. and this is where.
Desiree ep20 (13:31)
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (13:35)
What I'm super curious to talk about or to I don't know if we'll figure it out, but where does this go? Because does this become a movement that only grows not unlike really in the seventies, the nuclear the anti-nuclear power movement that helped rein in and curb the construction of new nuclear power plants? It wasn't the only reason, but it was
It was a big reason. is it that big? Are we really gonna step back from AI? and so there's that part of it. It's kind of like populism versus capitalism. And I look over at the capitalism side, I'm like, God. Like our entire economy right now it is because of AI, like it or not. And many would argue in a really terrible way, a circular way, which I think is true.
Desiree ep20 (14:22)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bevolo (14:34)
The stock market and everything like that. I don't know that there's very many knowledge worker laden companies that aren't going to continue to push to use AI. So like these two forces are coming together. And I I know who's won in the past. So I mean, I guess nuclear power, maybe, maybe. I don't know. So I'm just, I mean, let's break it down a little bit, but that's where I'm at is is
Desiree ep20 (14:54)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bevolo (15:03)
More like is this a is this a lasting growing dynamic? And what are the implications? Sorry.
Desiree ep20 (15:09)
Yeah for
Yeah, no, no, no, you're good. for me it's that like when people are saying like AI is bad and like the the fear of like the potential of that like that that AI, but to me it's mostly this arms race that these like tech billionaires, like they're trying to get to like to the completion of the thing, almost like the the creation of the bomb. And it's like, did we need to create that? Like I mean it's
yeah, but I'm sure we'll get into it. But yeah, for me it's that the the tool itself versus the people that are pushing so hard on the tool that's like making it like what's cause you there I feel like there are some ethical ways to develop but like that are being completely bypassed. But even just saying it out loud, I'm like might get branded with that scarlet letter AI.
Chris Bevolo (16:04)
I mean that's what before we dive into kind of the content we've built, that is the last thing I'll add is for the first time to your point over the last week, I have thought twice about like not using AI, though I've always thought about like how do I use AI and am I really using it responsibly and what does that even mean? But like even talking about it. Even talking I think within corporate circles.
I I don't fear the Scarlet AI, but I think publicly or like in this podcast, like both you and I are like, like we both use AI. How we're are we gonna just gonna get are the comments gonna like go off the chart? So, you know, we'll just be honest as we always are and talk about our feelings and see where we come out. But you're definitely talking to two people that see
the power of AI, but also completely understand the downside. So it's a it's not an easy thing. Speaking of that, before we get into our content, make sure if you're interested in learning about AI, do you subscribe to my Substack newsletter, The Paradox Pulse. it's actually for nonprofits, charities, NGOs. but to me, the the the whole idea of the Paradox Pulse is the paradox of an organization like that.
I actually think is is they have deeper challenges in leveraging AI given the impact than anybody else does. Like you or I could use and we're not you know, like our our AI footprint or whatever you want to call it is probably small. a for profit corporation or company, they're gonna use AI because they need to, they're motivated to, that's what they're built for, is make money. not that that's a good thing.
And people won't like it, but people will understand it. But if you're out there talking about saving the world and then you're also using AI, that's a that's a potential hypocrisy that's worse. People will think you're worse than a for profit company, potentially, because at least they're evil. We know they're evil, but you're supposed to be good. So that that's the whole premise of the newsletter. And so we put out something. So make sure you
You can go, we'll provide a link to that. but yeah. Let's in fact the last the last issue was about this topic. Because I wanted to get a little deeper into it. So let's talk about this a little bit. you know, I don't know that we need to get too much into the history of you know, the anti AI sentiment. It's just that there was it's just not the anti AI sentiment isn't new. That's fair. I think what you and I and
everybody with a pen or a microphone steams is focused on is the size of the public backlash that it's really blown up in that public way. And so let's just kind of read off some of the things and I'll get your view of if any of these you know you've seen all of the commencement speaker. Have you seen all of them?
Desiree ep20 (19:22)
probably not all of them, but I've seen probably the the I think there's like three of that were really getting a lot of buzz. And it and it was one of those moments of like wrong wrong moment, my guy and my girl. 'cause it was a couple of CEOs, it was men and women who were talking within their speeches about like, like it's and it's like the new in industrial revolution, like this is the future. And
without understanding, like you're talking to a crowd of folks that like, yes, as students, the they likely have been using it on that like smaller scale way for their personal lives, maybe even with school, what have you, it does kind of help you understand and break down items that like off top you you're not understanding. so there is that use case there. but then going into that that fear of
Kind of like with my generation went through. Luckily, I I graduated like in 2005, so there was still a a a a market for jobs and employment. But if you were graduating 2007, eight, nine, you know, you were kind of landing in a place where you're like, I don't know what my prospects are, so I'm gonna go like get this job at Starbucks or some things, right? And that's kind of what students are up against, where there's all of this talk and conversation around like not needing that entry level position anymore because we have AI.
Well then where do you go to get that hands on experience to then get hired on to then like, you know, begin and develop your career? So you're saying like, like I knew anyways, it's just like re it's almost like a a read the room, but also then that piece of like, why are you pushing this so hard? Like why does why did it even have to be mentioned in the in the speech? Like why couldn't you just talk about like just what this, you know, students are going to like just
We're proud of you. We're excited for the future and what you're going to do. Why did you use this as an opportunity for a commercial basically for AI? I guess is kind of my my takeaway from that. What about you?
Chris Bevolo (21:23)
gonna venture that these folks at least in one case I think the woman is the easiest one to apply this to the I don't know if it's true or not or if it's true of all three because the the other one was Eric Schmidt who was CEO of Google and then there was a like a music producer executive who is the worst of the three. But the woman I think just was out of touch.
Because was talking about it like, you know, I think the vibe of a commencement speech is like the world is your oyster and it's amazing and you're gonna have this huge future. And I think she literally thought AI was like part of that and was caught off guard when people were like, No, like so I think there's a little bit of that. Eric Schmidt, that's his entire life. So it's not a surprise he talked about it. the music producer guy was the worst guy because he got ordinary. He was like
Desiree ep20 (22:21)
Mm-hmm.
Deal with it.
Chris Bevolo (22:22)
Get over it. It's a
tool. Yeah, just deal with it. and I think at one point he said, What you learned in your first year may already be obsolete. So you so that just a it doesn't matter what you're talking about there. You're basically just saying, like, hey, you're the four or five years you just put in, that's probably a waste of time because it's all different now. Like that's just a clueless dude overall. Overall, just
That guy got everything he deserved, unfortunately. I mean, it's we can argue whether they're speaking the truth or not, but like I think he was he was the worst. So we got that. I think that is do you agree that that's really what turned this from like a voice in the crowd to the voice of the crowd? Was that dynamic?
Desiree ep20 (23:12)
There's that piece and there's just this I mean, there's been so many headlines around like I feel like more recently there's all of this push and like we're watching these these dudes who are racing to get to, you know, agentic, right? To get to the the the places like we're the most afraid of. And it's like we don't have to race. Like why are you pushing us so far down the field here on this? And it's because of their own personal gain and people seeing that.
And so then when you're hearing these commencement speakers basically push those like c handful of dudes narrative, then it's like, wait a second. like why are we going so fast? Like this is a really cool tool and like there's some things that can develop from it, but also does it need to get to that level and does it need to get to that level to tomorrow?
Chris Bevolo (24:05)
Yeah. I think that's a big part of it. and there there is a gosh, this is terrible. I didn't do my homework. There's a great it was a think piece or what was it? it was a pretty it was a pretty negative outlook, which is this is inevitable. It's inevitable. And I think it's inevitable, like you don't have to agree with me. This is don't shoot the messenger.
But the point of the view was is inevitable because we can't stop because if we stop somebody else will do it and we can't be at a disadvantage to a like a like a China. And then also our whole system is capitalist, which means it's all about the Benjamins. And so the the companies you're talking about, the handful of guys are gonna continue to try to be the winner and invest in this and everybody else who who benefits from being, you know, investing in it's gonna win too.
And so, like, we'll get to this later, but that's where I just I'm a little cynical on the the output. But I I thought it was the commencement speakers is what made this a story. there has been protests of data center resistance building. So that was kind of like the steam coming out of the side of Mount Hell Mount St. Helens, you know, like, look at this pushback. And then Minnesota just or Minneapolis just passed this. I think Maine passed laws.
Putting a moratorium on data center construction. So you see some policy changes. so it's been brewing and then to have the visceral booing, the brewing, then the booing, is what made it. But then I think like again, putting a Vatican cherry on top. I mean, the Pope came right on out and you basically what was his hold on, I got it here. he called for a disarming of artificial intelligence.
warning that new forms of slavery, quote unquote, are tied to its rise and cautioned against, quote, a race for ever more powerful algorithms and larger data sets driven by the desire to secure geopolitical or commercial dominance, which we just talked about. That's the that's the the the forces that seem like in unable to slow themselves. so this was in a I I don't know what the Pope talks about
His his first encyclical. That's what it looks like it says, but I don't know if that's the right pronunciation of whatever speech he gave. But it was titled Magnificusa Humanitus. I'm assuming that's Latin.
Desiree ep20 (26:46)
It's it's giving Latin.
Chris Bevolo (26:48)
It's giving Latin. So
so he's out saying this is this is no good. And I think it was David Sachs. Who was it? Somebody from administration who said, I didn't know it was the Pope's job to speak on AI. Like they're the anti Pope fervor is real, but we'll leave that for a different when that's a total podcast. Do we really have to talk about not liking the Pope?
Desiree ep20 (27:10)
Yeah, I mean it l like I I think I've shared on another episode, I've just been like deep into really under str understanding the Cold War in Russia and USSR and Soviet Union and all of this just like you had mentioned before about the the seventies and nuclear and it's essentially what we're trying to say is like, Hey, let's slow down. We don't need to do this. Like look at all of the unnecessary deaths that occurred from that
essentially like trying to race to get to the end of this and that with that with the Cold War it was looking at okay, we need to get there first before Russia does because if they get there like and then the both of you get this technology nuclear and then you're both sitting there like okay we both have our hands on the trigger, we have both have our hands on the button. Who's gonna press it first? And like, well it doesn't matter because that's the end game for all of us. So and like so no one wins and that's what this feels like.
right now is like we're heading towards this like there's like what's the end game here? Just total annihilation. Not to be like super like alarmist or anything, but like kinda because that's what it feels like.
Chris Bevolo (28:23)
Well, I mean, some of some of the experts, some of the people that really are credited with with I don't know about the best way to put this, not inventing it, but kind of like taking it to the level it's at now, the godfather of AI and all these kind of people, or the leader of these companies, they talk about the risk of the risk to humanity. They talk about it. Like it's a yeah, you know, it's like a non zero chance. Well in some cases it's higher than that. Again, I think I've I think I've mentioned that one of
the books I read that was technologically over my head, but I still got it was called If anybody builds it, everybody dies by he's he's a classic doomer. He's in the movie that you watch, the documentary. and so i there's people talking about that. And so that's not surprising. But I don't even I'm not even sure that people are reacting to the my God, the Terminator of it all. I think it's more
the job situation. We'll talk about the reasons, you know, kind of why this is going on in a second, but
The public sentiment around this is really negative. It's very like if you look at polling, it's very negative. especially the younger generation, you know, like Gen Z, like we talked to last week, Julia and Jayden it's very negative. because they're the ones that see like, I mean, there's also data that shows entry level jobs are becoming more and more difficult.
And you hear companies talk about, well, shoot, we hired 10 entry level people before. We could hire two now. And those two better be savvy at AI because they're going to help do the job that the other eight that we're not hiring could have done. and they're walking right into the job market where they're faced with that, right? And if you have an issue with AI, you're you're probably not gonna even get an interview.
Right, 'cause there's not very many companies that are gonna be like, we don't care about AI. You know, they're gonna their interviews are gonna be shaped around that to one degree or another.
Desiree ep20 (30:28)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's definitely starting to show up in in interview questions. in the documentary Chris referenced, it's the it's called the AI doc or how I became an apocalyptimist. And around the same time that there was more bubbling up, you know, I don't know about you, but I was getting like as galore for that film.
And I don't know if it was like if you were in a major city where it was screening or what have you, but like I feel like that might be a piece of it too, is that there was there was a lot of ads that were pushed for going to see that movie, which looks at both the like fear and like the like the o extreme optimism of it, which then kind of gets us to and like why there is still this connection to nuclear and the bomb, because it's the the Doctor Strange love or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. You know, it's kind of that similar premise.
But I would say again that that it was a interesting because it was that same time period where this movie was being pushed that may have added to it why it's such a a big conversation around it now.
Chris Bevolo (31:33)
Yeah. Yeah. Well let's talk about just talk a little bit about why. and I had my theories, so I I kind of have four reasons why you can you can say yay, nay, or add to the first one we've already talked about, and that is job displacement. And again, you've got people like Daro Amade, who came out last year a couple times and said like, hey, AI could eliminate half the entry level or half
At one point he said half the white collar jobs unemployment could go 10 to 20 percent. He's not the only one who said that, but as the CEO and founder of the leading AI company right now, Anthropic, that carries weight. Verizon CEO floated unemployment rising by as much as thirty-eight percent. and so and we have layoffs, like I think Meta just announced layoffs. Was it this weekend, Friday?
I can't remember. And so what I think is funny is I don't did we talk about this last week? I can't remember. I talked to somebody about it. it was Scott Galloway coming out and saying, like, this that's all a bunch of bullshit is essentially Scott's viewpoint. Like it'll there'll be more jobs, not less. And there's just a lot of reasons why that's kind of silly. But one of the things that people are are claiming is that it's called AI washing.
Desiree ep20 (32:31)
Yeah. Yeah, last week.
Chris Bevolo (32:57)
That like, we're we're laying people off and we're blaming it on AI when it's not really AI. And the thing that makes me laugh the most now is that I keep hearing, and Scott Galloway said this, all they're doing is cutting their workforce so they're back to pre-pandemic levels. And I'm like, pre-pandemic, that was 2019. That's seven years ago. Who who like who what growing business is like? I gotta cut my workforce. So what it was.
Seven years ago. That sounds like pandemic washing to me. so whether or not all these layoffs are actually because of AI or not, you know, Paul Ratzer is a guy we we follow, at least I follow, you follow him too. I follow him religiously. he actually goes around and he talks to a lot of companies, he talks to a lot of CEOs. And from the few that I've talked to, which isn't as many as Paul, I would also add to this.
nobody's out there looking to add a whole bunch of jobs. Their mandate is we need to keep our headcount flat and we need to look for opportunities to
cut jobs to replace for AI. Right. So I it it seems like that's real. So anything on that reason, I mean we've kind of touched on it, but I think that's the number one reason.
Desiree ep20 (34:18)
Yeah, that that feels that feels legit. And I'll also kind of say like going back to the commencement speech and then also just with like I I graduated with a journalism degree and this was when the kind of the beginning of where journalism was like really kind of spiraling. It was like, journalism's not gonna be a thing, right? And so I was one of the few that graduated and actually weren't in my field at, you know, my degree. And that's because at that time
When you're in school, like I was in the mindset of like get all of the job experience you can so that you can land that job 'cause like people that graduated that didn't have any kind of experience, any kind of resume. it's gonna you're gonna be hard to hire 'cause they at that time especially they were like, like you need to have like some sort of experience. This isn't like a train on the job sort of thing. Now cut to twenty years later and it's even a steeper climb here because of of this and
the essentially that we're staying flat or you need to already have this experience, like wouseway. it's it's a lot to it's a lot to to take in. And so then you you look at the seventies and time periods where there was this high unemployment and just kind of like what does that do to the public? I mean, not that we're gonna get to the French Revolution level, but we might. Like if people don't have something that they can really
do to further themselves and that their their coun their country, their government is not supporting that, then you could potentially have the civic mutiny on your hand. That's w what I think about when it comes to this like job deplacement, 'cause that this is a domino effect. Like just because like it's fine. You don't have jobs. I'm like, well you're gonna have a whole bunch of batch of other issues because of that.
Chris Bevolo (36:06)
Yeah, and you can understand why y the entry level
Cohort is probably the most upset. and again, we talked about it. One, it's because their jobs are most immediately affected, but also because they just got done investing a huge chunk of their mind space and money on college. And now it's like, what is this even gonna matter? Like, I've seen a couple articles like that over the last few days. Like, is this gonna make college like not even a thing anymore? I mean, I I I hope not, and I doubt it, but like that's just a salt in the wound.
Desiree ep20 (36:24)
And money.
One piece and then I'll let you get into the second one. I I I am seeing a lot of like young, entrepreneurial minded young folks that are using AI to like create their own career path that isn't the traditional like go get a job and you know, work for a company, yada yada yada. So there is that piece of it, where it almost feels like we're kinda on our own. We gotta figure this out for ourselves. If, you know, traditional jobs don't exist anymore, we gotta make money somehow. So that's why you have a bunch of like TikTok
shoppers that are selling wares to make money. They're making great money right now. I don't know if I want that to last 'cause like the rest of us aren't gonna have money. But that is like another like flip side to this conversation is that it is there are some folks that are like finding that other alternative to to this to to survive.
Chris Bevolo (37:32)
Well, let's talk about the second reason because that kind of puts that in a in a harsh light a little bit. I mean, not a harsh light, but it puts you it puts some people in a real conundrum, and that is the environmental impact. I think, you know, this is a big deal to a lot of people. And imagine that I mean, cause because what you hear about the jobs, and this is why you're like this puts you in a really tight spot if you care about the environment, is that hey,
You know, AI is not gonna replace people. People who use AI are gonna replace people. And so what you're hearing, whether you're an entry level worker or if you want to advance or you want to start your own thing, is that you've got to be AI forward. You have to be AI savvy. So what if you feel like the only way for me to unless I'm gonna go, you know, dig ditches or something? And by the way, there's like go be a plumber and you'll have a very happy life.
but but how do you even use AI at all if you believe that it's going to destroy the environment? And there's a lot of evidence that it's really bad for the environment. to be fair, you know, like I there's been a lot of backlash about the use of water, for example. and so you'll hear you'll hear you know, kind of the opposing view, which is, well, we use more water for golf courses. And I think the people that would stand up and say, like, well, we should get rid golf courses too. This is a
It's a fair argument, right? but you've got you've got water usage. You have you know, the the air quality. So we talked already about Memphis and what the air quality happened, or you know, what AI data centers did to that. We'll talk about data centers separately here in a second, though a lot of this is related to dentist data centers, not all of it. I've seen a couple of things recently that talks about look.
We're never going to get where we need to be with AI because our electrical grid grid can't handle it. It can't handle it. It can't handle as much power as we think we need. We're investing, I don't know what the combined investment of, say, Google, OpenAI, Meta, Grok, Anthropic is, but it's I it's tens of billions of dollars this year in data center investment. All of that needs power.
and you keep hearing these stories about how that that's affecting water quality or air quality or your electric bill or electric outages, electricity outages. So I think that that's a pretty hot pretty big hot button issue as well. Anyone add to that one?
Desiree ep20 (40:13)
Yeah, I mean I think what we saw that some states essentially the grid is like completely now like I I think they only have a matter of maybe a few months, like states like Nevada, they only have a matter of a few months to figure out where the citizens, the residents, or going to get their power because like all of the power grid is gonna be dedicated to data centers. So w to what end? Like what's the point? So who's gonna be using this AI? Like if we have no power we don't exist and we perish because we have no water.
and I think th there needs to be like if do we need to be gr building these data centers at this scale, taking in this i is there an alternative way that is more sustainable to build this? I know that when I was looking at this research a year ago, we were talking about it on a different pro podcast. It was the a lot it was a really interesting seeing how a lot of the data centers were being built in like the southern states, the hottest states.
in the US that have the least amount of water and infrastructure in that way, versus w when they were up against maybe trying to build in Cal a state like California, there was more legislation and policies around how they were making this a sustainable system, right? Whereas in states like a Louisiana where they do not care about their people, they they're just like letting them build whatever, wherever, and like whatever demand it takes on the resources of that that state.
And so it's like, can't there be more legislation, more like just you have to do build this in a certain way that is ethical, that is sustainable, that is d all this but but we're just like letting these people run amok and build whatever at the cost of the resources of this country and the globe and our future.
I just I again I just feel like you can even ask AI to like, hey, is there a better, more sustainable way to like develop these data centers or something? But it's like they're just completely skipping over that. But again, I'm not as deep into this as maybe I used to be or others are, to really understand. But that's just again, me as like, you know, Joan Q citizen, that's where my mind goes with this conversation.
Chris Bevolo (42:25)
Well, and that's that is a big hand wave from the AI builders. you know, AI will solve the power problem. We just gotta get there first. That's what they'll say. which is really a bunch of bullshit, right? Like just trust us. Trust us. This thing that we're building that's gonna, you know, destroy the earth. It'll you know, and it's it's we're we're kinda my third reason is very closely tied to the
environmental second reason, which is data centers. and I can't remember the the name of the guy. gosh, he's he's like the top engineer at OpenAI who said he can imagine data centers covering the earth because we'll need that. Like it's literally out of the matrix. and so you see that kind of thing and the pushback on data centers. And really I think if you want to throw another like spark
into the fuel that blew this thing up. The commencement speaker booing and then Kevin O'Leary and his Utah his Utah data center, which is the is just like so first of all, here's this dude who just has a lot of money. He just has a lot. He's not even f of the AI companies. He just got a shit ton of money. He's a dick.
I'm gonna say that out loud. Like he's just proven himself to be a dick overall in life. So that's not helping. We're gonna get to that part in a second. That's reason for is the dick dickishness of of these people. and he wants to build an AI center that's two times the size of Manhattan in Utah. A a state that's already like the governor just proclaimed an emergency because they're low on water. And of course his solution is pray for rain, which is amazing. and but you're gonna build this giant data center.
And so that to me, the the scenes of all of the people speaking out and the and the commissioners, the city council people just being jerks to them, clearly paid off. Or I mean, I don't know how you can be an elected official and act that way to your constituents, but they did and passed it. and then the state approved it. And, you know.
It's it's brutal and and all the way along we'll talk about this, but the voices, Kevin O'Leary's voice and the governor's voice, made things worse, in my opinion. But data centers.
Desiree ep20 (44:57)
Yeah.
Yeah, data centers. So you'll be proud of me. This was a sci-fi movie that I watched last year. Arco, the the the sci fi animated movie that came out. essentially it's like the year is like t the year is twenty nine thirty two and they're in this like idyllic future where basically humans live up in the clouds because
We've done God knows what to the earth essentially. It's like we're, you know, 900 years from now. I'm like, wow, cool. We did that. So now we're living in the sky, like in space and in the clouds, because we've just completely either Earth is just full of data centers or we've just like completely destroyed it and it's not inhabitable. but watching that like a year ago and just be like, whoa, wait, what? And then getting to today of like seeing like, this is how we get here. This is how we get to Arco.
like is this the end goal here? I don't know. But that's that's just w getting where my mind went and like I w watched sci fi, so be happy.
Chris Bevolo (46:01)
Very good.
What's the derogatory genre that you call that? Or redundant. It's always re sounds redundant to me, but I don't I understand it's like all fiction speculative, but I get it. I get it. all right, so let's go into the fourth one, which is the the funnest one to me, because it's just these these leaders, this group of guys as you described it.
Desiree ep20 (46:10)
Speculative fiction. Redundant.
Chris Bevolo (46:31)
are not great like Dario Amode is probably the most likable guy and he's the one that said half the white collar jobs are gonna disappear. He's the most likable because anthropic is try he like stood up to Pete Heggseth. So people love him for that. but he's still like he's still an AI leader. At least he's not Sam Altman who seems sociopathic or Elon Musk who is clearly psychopathic
or Mark Zuckerberg, who's the devil. Like these are the these are the people. These are the people we're supposed to lead us into the future. but I come back to Kevin O'Leary because God bless him, he is the biggest horse's ass. so he in defending his ridiculous data center in Utah, he claimed first that all the protesters that you saw in the news were bust in from outside of Utah.
That was his first thing. And then he was on Fox News. and we'll we'll provide a link to this because it's amazing. But he went after some of the protesters that have been most vocal about it. basically inferring or accusing them of being funded by China. So they're professional, like that's the favorite comeback of anybody who doesn't like being protested. they're just paid. They're just paid, know, like.
The hundred thousand people who marched in Minneapolis in protest of ICE, they're all paid. Like who's paying a hundred thousand people? it just shows like the the mindset of people who can't imagine that somebody would ever be against them. and so he there's a great rebuttal by two women he went after who just destroy him in their podcast. So we'll provide a link to that. I will add to that the governor
of Utah claiming that the data centers will add water back into the system. Like he said that. I don't know what kind of math or science he's using there. and then you've got Howard Lutnick, who's probably the biggest clown in the administration. Like there's a lot of bad people in this administration. I don't I don't think you that's a surprise to hear that coming from me, that opinion.
But Howard Lutnick's probably the biggest fool. Like literally, like, remember the remember the the guy in Game of Thrones? I can't remember what his name was. but that's what he is. He's like a jester. He's like a court jester with his little bells on. And he was claiming that data centers, wherever you build them, will actually lower electricity rates for people. So it's just like lying or hand waving or
Whatever, but these people do not help themselves. They do not if if their job is to advance AI, they're maybe the worst spokespeople for it.
Desiree ep20 (49:41)
Right, because they hold all of like the world's wealth while people are like literally starving to death. so I mean it the first part you had mentioned, it j it just it sounded very familiar. Like everything in the fifties and the sixties and seventies were blamed on the communists, the red scare, everything was like, you're you must be this if you are speaking out against you know, what we're trying to push, then you you must be the the enemy.
and so the way I've been seeing it is like it it sounds like there's a couple of different camps. There's like the utopians where I'm like, my god, it's just gonna get us to this greater world and like you said, like we're gonna have more water, more energy once we get there. Like you you have to we're gonna lose a a lot before we get to this like this other like golden like world, right? And then there's the excel the accelerationists, the ones that just wanna get there.
I'm I'm thinking of like the Peter Thiel types of the world who they don't really want us to exist anyways. Like that's also part of the framing where they just wanna be able to have all the riches and advanced technology and the rest of us are just like, you know, easily lit automatons that they can do whatever with 'cause they don't wanna have any regulation. that's essentially like his end goal.
and then there's like that nationalist frame of like we gotta get there before, you know, China does, or before Russia or whoever else gets there. that's like okay, okay, but but why? But meanwhile, like this is all it feels like all in the name of them getting richer, getting more power, because at some point something like this, like the threat of like them having more power than any any government, any
you know, religious figure, like that that to me that's the biggest fear of of all of all of this. And like that these are the people that we don't trust. We've seen their behavior. We've seen the papers around like how they actually think about this thing and what they're actually afraid of and how they're protecting themselves and their family against while they're just leaving the rest of us out here to to dry and like, I don't know, be murdered by robots or something like that.
Which is an extreme tin hat moment. But that's yeah, like I I I need someone that you know that saying that like we're not as altruistic as we like to believe? Humans are just not as altruistic as they we like wanting to believe, and that's essentially where we are. Like there is so much to be gained for so few, so why not bother? That's the rub of that. And but we are more.
than them, so it's almost like this rally cry for us to and and this is our version of standing up to this to stop, to slow it down. but is it enough? Will it be enough? How can we make sure that it is enough?
Chris Bevolo (52:36)
Yeah, I don't know. Go see Mountainhead. This is our plug again to watch Mountain Head, because Mountain Head is what you're talking about where these these oligarchs rule the world.
Desiree ep20 (52:40)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bevolo (52:47)
Pope that's really the main message of Pope Leo too is like this cannot be a this cannot be a for profit revolution. Like if it is we're all screwed. and you also reminded me of yet another douchebag of epic proportions. Do you know who Mark Andreessen is?
Desiree ep20 (53:13)
name sounds familiar, but remind me.
Chris Bevolo (53:14)
Yeah.
I think Mark I could be wrong about this, but I think he got his start by by creating and founding or running Netf Netscape way back when there were browser wars. but he's very wealthy. He's one of he's like a Peter Thiel dude. He's an awful human being. He was on the Joe Rogan podcast and he was talking about AI. And again, it's like this clip, you guys, and he's talking about how how like, you know, you can have
Desiree ep20 (53:25)
Yeah, browser.
Chris Bevolo (53:43)
AI do this and that and it doesn't get drunk and it doesn't call HR and you know, like basically it's way better humans. Yes. But also, like, I'm just gonna point this out because I asked my wife if this is like a psychological thing. But if you've ever run across somebody who sniffs after they make a point, AI's just the best. Cause that's the way it's gonna be. Like he go watch this clip. And it's the most it it gives this this vibe of pretentiousness.
Desiree ep20 (53:48)
that guy.
Chris Bevolo (54:12)
And arrogance when he talks that just adds to it. Right? It adds to it. It's like Mark Zuckerberg when he talks, and he and he's trying to come off as human. And so he talks like in simplistic terms. And instead, it's just like you were clearly somebody with no soul or heart. You were the tin man. Like it, like it has the opposite effect. Go find a clip of Joe Rogan and Mark Andreessen talking about AI and you'll see what I mean. And he
He just sniffs like that. You're like, what is that? What is that?
Desiree ep20 (54:43)
It's very like
villa it's like very villain coded.
Chris Bevolo (54:47)
It's very it's just it's just I I wish I could replicate it. I'm I'll work on it. I'll work on my Mark Andreessen. which it now occurs to me. Mark Andreessen is also a white bald guy. he doesn't have glasses, but now every time I see white bald guys with glasses, I'm just like, maybe I should just go away. And maybe I'm not good either. Like this is the this is the villain face now.
This got Galloway and and and others bald white dudes
Desiree ep20 (55:17)
Not all bald
Not all bald
white dudes with glasses.
Chris Bevolo (55:26)
But it's the first like look, let's be honest. If you you come across this podcast and you're like, great, another old white bald dude who's gonna tell us what's not, it really has given me it's giving me pause, gotta say.
Desiree ep20 (55:39)
You you should get laser
and get you one of those the the hair pieces that like stick to your and then great yeah, go to Turkey or y you know we can get the ones that that just lay on there and stick. You don't have to go through the whole surgery. But I mean it's cheaper in Turkey, you can do that as well. and then grow your beard. So then that way you can blend into the masses and not be like Lex Luther over here.
Chris Bevolo (55:47)
Go to Turkey. Should I go to Turkey?
Mm-hmm.
That's right.
All right. So where is this going, Des? Like this is the big question. This is a big question for me, which is I said at the beginning, is this just now like I said before, the anti AI was a voice in the crowd, but it was not the voice of the crowd. I do feel like now you could accurately say that if you're talking about Joan T public or Joe C public, it is the voice of the crowd. Right. There are certainly other voices.
But the voice, b surveys, zeitgeist, you name it, is a AI is bad. And so you've got this public, you know, kind of uproar. And then in that that is the wave crashing against the rocks that is capitalism. And as soon as people go into their jobs or try to enter the workforce, they are going to be, I don't even think, asked nicely.
They're going to be forced to use AI or they won't have a job. So what the hell? How's that gonna go?
Desiree ep20 (57:07)
Yeah.
I d I don't know. but I know that people are thinking about at least, you know, what alternatives. you know, can they be like it's like we're out of the floodgate, like we're the the train is out of the gate, like we're moving down, but it's like can we slow it down to figure this thing out before it's too late? I know that there are some professors that are studying this. I'm trying to find her her name.
I've been actually listening to her her podcast. She kinda helps kind of just give me some like, it's it might be actually okay. her name is Shae Omanisho. She is a candidate for her PhD at Harvard. but she she has a couple of different like papers and things that she offers and tools around AI for human humanists.
I think there's like looking at how to use A AI that's like not connected to the system or or what have you. But anyways, I think it's the matter of like us continuing to use our voice against, you know, what is a great detriment to humanity. that does just does not need to to happen. 'cause I know we're like we're bringing up all this stuff and like well, what are we gonna do about it? But I don't know, what like what's kind of your cause I mean the biggest piece of this is
the climate, what's gonna happen to the planet. look I'm thinking of the Hail Hail Mary Project Hail Mary of you haven't watched it yet? yeah. Yeah. It's like really heartwarming. Okay. What what are you thinking about when it comes to what does this all mean?
Chris Bevolo (58:45)
Don't we're gonna listen to it. Don't spoil.
Now, is it good? Okay, okay. Okay.
It's it's really tough for me because there are I do think it's different than the nuclear, the the anti nuclear power movement in the sixties and seventies and into the eighties, honestly. because that what what was stopped was the building of nuclear power plants, which was a very specific, very expensive endeavor. at a time when it turned out
We we were coming out of the oil crisis. Maybe we didn't need it. So there was a lot of economic dynamics that contributed to the scale back of nuclear power. It wasn't just that. this is different. This is everywhere. and so if you look at some trends tied to technology, there's often this kind of like.
pattern that's followed where there's the early adopters and then there's the pushback and then there's a normalization and then there's the adoption and and all this kind of stuff. but also I believe that people try to throw out those same technological trends from the past to say like, AI won't won't hurt jobs. It'll create jobs. And I'm like, well, I don't think that's true. Like I think this is different. So you can't have your cake and eat it too
In other words, like I can't call trends back from the past if I don't believe all the trends, right? I guess I could, but that seems to be an inconsistent thing. I the the truth is people are still using it. Even the people that hate it use it. Again, like if you're at a job, you may have to use it. You will have to use it. I mean, there's no way.
Desiree ep20 (1:00:40)
And it's built
into everything we use.
Chris Bevolo (1:00:43)
It's built in like every iPhone has it. So what are you gonna kinda every iPhone user uses it whether they know it or not?
Desiree ep20 (1:00:50)
You
Google anything, you get on Netflix, you get it's it's like embedded, so it's like it's it's a thing, like it's here. It's whether or not like how much we're using it. but going back to Osh to Shae Omani Omanihou, her podcast is called Critical Thinking in the Age of AI. And she actually talked there was an episode that was about how to use AI without using data centers.
And have you heard about the concept of local and offline AI?
Chris Bevolo (1:01:22)
I've I've heard about alternatives, like other countries have AI like I think like in the ocean, like they're using salt water, like 'cause the water is mainly to cool the it's mainly to cool the servers. So why do you have to use fresh water? I don't know, but that we claim we need to.
Desiree ep20 (1:01:40)
Fresh water.
Yeah, it's like yeah, I'm just riffing off of like just the alternatives for this. So it's like to your point, like if you're going to continue to use AI, whether it's because of work or because it's just like really already just embedded into your your life, you know, there's some things to think about or some research on your own to to figure out how to do that. so like I know privacy and surveillance, like that's what I actually have been more concerned about, is that piece of just
like all of all of this information is being like especially with people that put so much like personal details into their their chats and like just the risk of that getting out there there's this epic dot org, the electronic privacy information center you can learn more about. There's like campaigns, there's the campaign to stop killer robots that has like a number of like two hundred plus NGO members. 'cause it's
I mean to those speakers, the commencement speakers, like it's not going away. And it's like it's not because there's all of this force behind it. But it's how can we almost like our boycotting our episode and our treaty, how do we get there? to that place. And then looking at going back to the nuclear, where essentially it did get us to a place where we did need to sign like a treaty where like both like all countries essentially decided
Chris Bevolo (1:02:54)
It's the same.
Desiree ep20 (1:03:10)
And agreed to not go there. Can we get there with this agentic AI? Like who do we talk to? Who can we like rally in order to get to there? Cause I like I think that's the big piece. And with the AI doc, there was a ton of of of listed at the end of that that film that really talks about what we can do as just individual people. definitely recommend checking that out.
Chris Bevolo (1:03:35)
Yeah, so I asked I asked AI.
Desiree ep20 (1:03:39)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bevolo (1:03:39)
What's gonna
what's gonna why are people hating you and all that good stuff? the so there's the irony and the hypocrisy. Like, I don't know. I use AI, so I'm I can't hide from that, even though we're talking about it. I understand all the negatives, but I also feel like for what I need to do, I have to use it or I wouldn't be able to do it. So that's like you can come at me if you want, that's fair. but I think the investment, I wish I had the number in front of me of the level of investment of these AI companies.
Is so off the charts, they're not going to just stop that. So there's can continue to be, you know, data centers built, which is going to continue to cause strife. So you're going to see that build up, right? I think the midterms for the first time, like it's a little late, but for the first time, you're going to see politicians even more than they are now using AI as a wedge issue, as a platform.
and really that's gonna help the Democrats because the Republicans have been all pro AI. I suppose I don't know, it's hard to it's hard to like if you're a Republican and you're like, I'm all for AI, let's vote for me. you know, I suppose the way people with identity politics work, that that actually could swing people, be like, Well, if this guy's for AI, then I must be for AI because I'm for everything he's for.
so that's possible, but I do think it's gonna be more negative than positive. it's easy to look at of all the, you know, like the we talked about the three commencement speeches where there were booze. There was also the one at like community college where they used AI to like come up with the names, and the AI missed some of the names. So some of the people didn't get to walk, and they literally said it.
They're like, here's what's happening. Like, we used AI for the first time and it didn't work. And I mean, like, so every time something like that happens, it's just easy for people to just throw bricks and say, like, why are we doing this? but on the other hand, you've got so many things that have come before that people were worried about that have that became normalized.
Desiree ep20 (1:05:32)
The
Chris Bevolo (1:05:53)
We're not handling we're of course. a good friend of ours, I'm gonna give her credit for this. Stephanie pointed out that when we wrote the Joe Public 2030 book, Des, we had a prediction about health inequity. Health inequity and health what was what else are we talking about? Just health inequity. And our and our prediction was it's gonna get worse before it gets better. Boy, did we get that right.
Desiree ep20 (1:06:21)
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (1:06:24)
but we talked to, we interviewed, happened to be a cousin of mine, but a guy from Italy who has studied European healthcare systems. He's worked for European organizations, really brilliant guy. And he said healthcare is a reflection of the society of the comp of the country. Meaning, in the United States, what's our society? It's all money-based, which is why we have this effed up healthcare system in this country.
Desiree ep20 (1:06:24)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bevolo (1:06:52)
that people make billions of dollars off of while other people literally go bankrupt because they can't afford care. And Stephanie s drew that allusion to AI in a negative way. Like in other countries, like do you have I feel like Scandinavian countries or France are gonna be able to figure this out where it's a balance between advancing and the and the good of AI and not destroying their
Desiree ep20 (1:07:04)
Mm.
Chris Bevolo (1:07:22)
employment and you know, all those things. I have no confidence that this country's gonna do that. Because this country, it doesn't matter whether you're right or left, unless you're super left or maybe super right, driven by money. It's all money. It's all about money. So that's our culture. I don't know when that or will change. So that's right, disparity dystopia. Yeah.
Desiree ep20 (1:07:51)
I
was actually just talking about this today. I was like looking at like, you know, you know, if we're gonna solve for health, like what is it? And it's essentially like look at everything our health you had mentioned, everything is about money. So we're not in the business of, you know, healing people, we're in the business of disease management. So that we can continue to subs prescribe pr pharma, pharmaceuticals to them so that we can keep driving money. We're various different people's pockets would be in line.
The other piece is also our food. Like people always talk about like, my God, like I just got back from Europe where the food is real and not just like all toxic and chemicals and like we're the we're the country a lot of our food that we create are banned in other countries because they care about their people and want them to actually have good food, healthy food that's gonna heal because you know, food is medicine. but yeah, because we are all about the Almadi dollar and it's cheap to make this, you know.
Chris Bevolo (1:08:23)
Right.
Right.
Desiree ep20 (1:08:49)
GMO, this induced food, this fake food, that we're gonna continue and it's cheap for families who are struggling to even have access to it. The grocery stores in their neighborhoods, they're gonna buy this and just continue to get sicker and like then we get into the disease management and then the pharmacy it's all it's all cyclical. There's no money in a cure, what they talk about like with cancer, right? So yeah, I think that's a incredible analogy and makes total sense and like my my God, like I have I have to get out of here.
Chris Bevolo (1:09:17)
Well, I would one of the first Paradox Pulse articles I wrote was called AI and the Capitalist Endgame. And it it riffs off of Mountain Head, but it's essentially like there's so many things in this country. We have talked about the myths in this country, like the American dream and the melting pot. And I mean, you could even you could even throw racism in there. These artificial constructs.
That were all created to benefit the wealthy. Racism was created to ensure essentially that the white dudes didn't throw in with the black dudes in pre like colonial America. so so all these things have been artificially constructed to keep the masses doped, like fighting each other, all of this stuff.
So that the wealthy can keep making their money. And in my super dystopian take, the the capitalist endgame is like, my God, you mean we don't need workers? The reason they had to do all that is because somebody has to do the labor. Somebody has to do the work so they can make their money. But what if they don't need people to make money? That is AI. You don't need people, right? You certainly don't need as many people.
Like by a factor of 100 X, you theoretically, if this goes where it's potentially could go. so if you're a capitalist of any ilk, whether you're an oligarch, tech billionaire, whether you run a big company, you look at this and you're like, you're like Mark Andreessen. You mean I could do all this and not and have like one tenth of the HR claims and nobody's complaining about PTO.
And their feelings and all that crap I have to deal with with these shit, I'm telling you, most executives are not that far off or right in that kind of mindset about their employees. I'm sorry to say, having been in corporate America for 30 years. And if you could replace all that with AI, so the ultimate place for these folks is that I get to make money without.
Desiree ep20 (1:11:17)
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (1:11:39)
The hassle. Without the hassle of people. And so the only thing that can stop that in my mind is an actual government intervention of people that are thinking 10 to 20 to 30 years down the road, which we do not have right now. That is not our government now. and that would be it would have to be a significant shift in government power or a civil uprising, like literally.
a civil uprising. And I don't say that I'm not trying to be conspiracy theorists bill here and put on my tin hat, but like it ain't gonna come f they're not gonna do it. They're not gonna do it themselves. Capitalists are not gonna do it themselves. So we
Desiree ep20 (1:12:17)
That's how it happens. Yeah. Yeah.
Yay, another loop to loop on this roller coaster called our present. Ugh, well, shall we wrap?
Chris Bevolo (1:12:35)
Can we talk just really
quickly about if this continues though, it is interesting to me to think about I don't think the groundswell is gonna abate. It's just whether it has any impact and whether that that voice of the public gets lost. but I do think it could it could impact investment in AI. It could impact
I don't know if it'll impact companies to be truthful. Maybe. Will knowledge workers create unions in ways that blue collar workers had to to fight technological advances?
Desiree ep20 (1:13:19)
I mean, one would hope. I mean that's how we've gotten any the right change in this world when everything has spiraled, it's been because of the people who got together and even across beliefs, party lines, what have you, like because there is this greater need, this greater good or this greater evil, that we're up against. But the hope is that yeah, everyone kinda bands together to to to stop this.
So yeah, there's the piece of like the day to day like investment or you know, those those kinds of questions, but it but to what end? Do you know, what does it mat like what does it matter if that that you're in what you're invested in if there's no water? Like our bodies are what, like what do they say, like seventy or eighty percent water or something? like what does any of this matter if we can't breathe, we can't live? yeah.
Chris Bevolo (1:14:16)
Well
that's a that's the there was a a headline in The Guardian about the commencement booing and they had interviewed a guy and it was a little bit to your point where you you were like, dude, wrong place, wrong time, and the headline said they weren't reading the room. And which is another way of saying like wrong place, wrong time. And my first instinct was they don't give a shit about the room. Now maybe the consp commencement speakers do.
But the people in power with these AI technologies, including our current administration, I don't think they give two shits about whether there's water for us or not. Because they can go live wherever there is water. That's what Peter Thiel wants to do, right? He wants to build his own island country so he doesn't have to live by the laws of the United States, which made him rich. Like, so that's pretty dystopian, but
Desiree ep20 (1:15:13)
We're living with a new breed of human. Which is why like a lot of the the conversations around like, okay, do protests work? And it's like they used to when there was a bit more of a consciousness with the leadership. When there isn't that, like there's there's not anything to be like gained. So it's like we have to find other means. But I don't know. I I feel like we should wrap though before we like dive into more dystopia.
Chris Bevolo (1:15:36)
Before we go deeper
into our our pit of our pit of negativity. Well, I mean, this is the this is the talker of the day. I'm sure we'll we'll come back to it again. I don't think it's going anywhere, but I'm not sure it matters. That's where I that's where I that's my bumper sticker. unfortunately, and we didn't even really talk about you or I and like our conflict with this because we both like to use AI.
We find positive ways to use AI.
And yeah.
Okay. To be continued. Well, thank you, Des for hanging in there on the womp womp. We should title this womp womp. but thanks for being there for the for all the womb womp. normally we say we hope this helped you cope in some way with the world around us. I'm not sh maybe it helped you cope. At least you know you're not alone, either in hating AI or trying to find that balance.
Desiree ep20 (1:16:14)
Speed continued.
Chris Bevolo (1:16:41)
'Cause I think most people are trying to find that balance, right? Even the people that hate AI are trying to find a balance of like, well, look, if I have to use it for a job, I'll use it for a job, but like I'd like to use it responsibly. How do I find that balance? So maybe it helped you see that you're not alone. Well, we'll go with that. please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to or watch your pods. Give us five stars on Apple Podcasts. That helps ensure more people see the show, which is great.
visit bearing287.com or follow me on substack as I mentioned earlier to access other helpful comp content, not just on AI, but other things as well. And I'm Chris Bevolo and on behalf of I'm not even supposed to be here today and Bearing 287, and thank you so much for listening. We will see you next time. Bye.